Guild Wars 2

I haven’t played GW2 since I heard about Lost Shores adding even more power progression beyond exotics. I’m just curious about a couple things.
How much power progression was added?
Does it seem like more power progression will be added?

Nevermind. I got all the info I needed when I looked at that AMA on Reddit. ArenaNet intends to continue with a vertical progression focus.

Well community and ANet it has been a good run and a pleasure for the most part. And with that I bid you all farewell, catch y’all in other games.

Shockwave out.

I would like to add one last thing. The quote that really says it all for me and is causing the divorce with ANet…

Mike O’Brien

Hi! I’ll respond to the top part since it’s a quote from me.
Obviously the key phrase I’m going to point you to in that quote is, “if someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it”. That really is the litmus test we’ve used. That’s why, at ship, we gave better stats to exotic gear and didn’t give better stats to legendary gear.
More generally, I hope we’ve been clear that GW2 is not a game with virtually no stat progression in it like GW1 was. That’s why GW2 shipped with a higher level cap, and with a hard separation between PvE and PvP. In GW1 we never advanced the level cap through four campaigns/expansions. The game design didn’t allow for it. But GW2 was designed without those restrictions, and we’ve always expected that we will someday raise the level cap in GW2.
That’s why we’ve always said that GW2 rewards players through both progression and collection, whereas GW1 primarily rewarded through collection. Presumably players aren’t shocked that GW2 rewards through progression, since it has a level 80 cap.
I wonder if the core sentiment is more this: It’s only been two-and-a-half months! We don’t even all have exotics yet, and already you’re introducing another tier. Is this the start of a power progression curve that I’ll never be able to keep up with?
I certainly appreciate that worry. I myself don’t want a constant struggle, as exists in some other games, to keep my equipment viable.
Then we’re left with a balancing act. Some progression is ok, but pushing players onto gear treadmill isn’t ok and isn’t what the game is about.
So I would ask you to judge us by details, and not by making slippery-slope arguments. We introduced a ton of new content in November, and the sum total of new progression rewards we added to go with it provided a 5-10% stat increase in 2 of 12 slots. I hope you’ll agree that that kind of very shallow and gradual progression does not force people onto a gear treadmill.
I think it’s important for GW2 to be able to have this kind of gradual progression. Of course we made some mistakes with the way we introduced ascended gear. (See ChrisW’s answers for details.) But those are addressable issues. I don’t think they invalidate the fundamental concept that GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game.
~ MO

As a GW1 fan the part that hits the hardest is what I’ve bolded. It was not clear to me that they would conform with the standard MMO progression system and they never came out and clearly said they would as far as I have seen until now, after I’ve bought the deluxe edition of the game AND spent extra money on gems.

No big deal though, because I shall spend my time in other ways I enjoy as opposed chasing the next biggest carrot.

Enough to make me quit playing completely.

Not enough to keep the WoW fanbase for long.

ye its huge power progresion from 48 power on exotic to 50 u guys are FAIL from power 2000 if u add + 2 and the items are just rings atm u gona get 4 + power from the max stat 2002 etc whic is PURE pve dosent impact pvp at all this is bearly vertical i cant play for comsetics its just stupid its small power up just to keep me up to have feeling that im progresing at something .

Gele.2048:

ye its huge power progresion from 48 power on exotic to 50 u guys are FAIL from power 2000 if u add + 2 and the items are just rings atm u gona get 4 + power from the max stat 2002 etc whic is PURE pve dosent impact pvp at all this is bearly vertical i cant play for comsetics its just stupid its small power up just to keep me up to have feeling that im progresing at something .

A) Use punctuation marks
B) It’s more than +2 power, please look compare all stats again between exotic and ascended
C) Infusion slots also have stats. Current is fine/blue level infusion with +5 stat. There will be more tiers of infusions as the “small” power increase

Edit: I can’t tell if it’s a long thought out troll through the history of the forum to type like that. If it is, kudos. If not..

Gele.2048:

ye its huge power progresion from 48 power on exotic to 50 u guys are FAIL from power 2000 if u add + 2 and the items are just rings atm u gona get 4 + power from the max stat 2002 etc whic is PURE pve dosent impact pvp at all this is bearly vertical i cant play for comsetics its just stupid its small power up just to keep me up to have feeling that im progresing at something .

The point here is: Having only one small step of power progression is pointless if you don’t plan on expanding on it in the future. If the power progression is to low to affect the game there is no reason to have it in the first place and if it has an effect on the game it’s bad. There is no such thing as a little power progression, you either have it or you don’t. Arena Net has decided to have it in GW2 and for some players that’s enough do abandon the game (or at least to stop spending money on it).

My thoughts … If you comparred GW2 with other verticle progression they cant compete for long others have 10/25m raids and better costumer service bugs are fixed with in hours a day or two most dont take 3wks in their november event fiasco they barely have told the people the will receive something next week I can remember Rifts first raid when it came out they had a 3 part event but some couldnt complete the third event (due to level) for acheive thru no fault of their own they had the acheive before the event was over. If they want to be a verticle progression mmo let them be judged as such I say and well they are lacking in big ways

deborah.2068:

My thoughts … If you comparred GW2 with other verticle progression they cant compete for long others have 10/25m raids and better costumer service bugs are fixed with in hours a day or two most dont take 3wks in their november event fiasco they barely have told the people the will receive something next week I can remember Rifts first raid when it came out they had a 3 part event but some couldnt complete the third event (due to level) for acheive thru no fault of their own they had the acheive before the event was over. If they want to be a verticle progression mmo let them be judged as such I say and well they are lacking in big ways

Yea, Arenanet messed themselves up here. As a unique, horizontal progression based semi-sandbox MMO Guild Wars 2 was amazing. It stood out as being distinct from the other games in having several awesome features, chief among them being a stat plateau.

But as the gear grinder, vertical progression based WoW-clone they are striving to become, they lack greatly. There are other games that do a far better job of it.

And unfortunately it won’t have the effect they are hoping for. The content locusts will eat through this content more quickly than they can put out more, while the more devoted GW1 base will migrate back to GW1 OR realize they actually like vertical progression and move to one that does a better job.

All that’s left are those apathetic to the situation, not caring one way or another. I wonder how much of the population that group constitutes…

Tolmos.8395:

deborah.2068:

My thoughts … If you comparred GW2 with other verticle progression they cant compete for long others have 10/25m raids and better costumer service bugs are fixed with in hours a day or two most dont take 3wks in their november event fiasco they barely have told the people the will receive something next week I can remember Rifts first raid when it came out they had a 3 part event but some couldnt complete the third event (due to level) for acheive thru no fault of their own they had the acheive before the event was over. If they want to be a verticle progression mmo let them be judged as such I say and well they are lacking in big ways

Yea, Arenanet messed themselves up here. As a unique, horizontal progression based semi-sandbox MMO Guild Wars 2 was amazing. It stood out as being distinct from the other games in having several awesome features, chief among them being a stat plateau.

But as the gear grinder, vertical progression based WoW-clone they are striving to become, they lack greatly. There are other games that do a far better job of it.

And unfortunately it won’t have the effect they are hoping for. The content locusts will eat through this content more quickly than they can put out more, while the more devoted GW1 base will migrate back to GW1 OR realize they actually like vertical progression and move to one that does a better job.

All that’s left are those apathetic to the situation, not caring one way or another. I wonder how much of the population that group constitutes…

=) agree with everything except one thing the apathetic group ….. lemmings will follow one group or another

if you want to take down a power house you dont take them down by trying to do what they do best and been doing for years you take them of their platform and make them fight their own weakness

To put it in one sentence: Anet is trying to cater to too broad an audience.

Back in the days, Anet heard that a portion of their players are running out of content. They came up with a massive live team to generate monthly events for original stuff. And added, also planned on it seems from the AMA giving way for, more vertical progression. Despite the huge live team, the recent monthly content was rather lackluster. (Alternatively, the Halloween Event was great! Anet is pushing beyond its limits right now. I don’t mind less frequent major events.) Vertical progression seems like an easy additional fix for players that demand more stuff to do. However, not only does this not sufficiently satisfy those hardcore players, it also caused much commotion with the rest of the playerbase. A new gear tier that gives the illusion of more vertical progression by giving it minimal increase in stats to appease the other half seems like a decision that solves concerns of neither groups of players. Even if we let go of the fact that Anet is aberrating from its orginial principles, nor does it do well in fully capturing players that adhere to vertical progression.

Perhaps their metrics show that the majority of their players are such hardcore players that fancies vertical progression more. Can’t argue with that. But when Anet decides to focus on these players, they just made itself another typical MMO. I’m sure Anet will agree that what drew the community’s attention originally was its product’s ability to differentiate – that commands a premium. The product essentially leverages itself, and reduces its status of being a substitute. No more.

At some point in time, I believe Anet confused its company’s strength by giving in to a certain playerbase. Basically, it has lost itself.

Stats of +20-50% better per piece are not trivial increase. Last time I checked, fail is a verb too.

Columba.9730:

Stats of +20-50% better per piece are not trivial increase. Last time I checked, fail is a verb too.

No, it is not. But that leads to another line of argument.

From Anet’s perspective, 10-20% stat increase is minimal. And that they try to cater to both parties seem to have failed to capture either.

Shockwave.1230:

I would like to add one last thing. The quote that really says it all for me and is causing the divorce with ANet…

Mike O’Brien

Hi! I’ll respond to the top part since it’s a quote from me.
Obviously the key phrase I’m going to point you to in that quote is, “if someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it”. That really is the litmus test we’ve used. That’s why, at ship, we gave better stats to exotic gear and didn’t give better stats to legendary gear.
More generally, I hope we’ve been clear that GW2 is not a game with virtually no stat progression in it like GW1 was. That’s why GW2 shipped with a higher level cap, and with a hard separation between PvE and PvP. In GW1 we never advanced the level cap through four campaigns/expansions. The game design didn’t allow for it. But GW2 was designed without those restrictions, and we’ve always expected that we will someday raise the level cap in GW2.
That’s why we’ve always said that GW2 rewards players through both progression and collection, whereas GW1 primarily rewarded through collection. Presumably players aren’t shocked that GW2 rewards through progression, since it has a level 80 cap.
I wonder if the core sentiment is more this: It’s only been two-and-a-half months! We don’t even all have exotics yet, and already you’re introducing another tier. Is this the start of a power progression curve that I’ll never be able to keep up with?
I certainly appreciate that worry. I myself don’t want a constant struggle, as exists in some other games, to keep my equipment viable.
Then we’re left with a balancing act. Some progression is ok, but pushing players onto gear treadmill isn’t ok and isn’t what the game is about.
So I would ask you to judge us by details, and not by making slippery-slope arguments. We introduced a ton of new content in November, and the sum total of new progression rewards we added to go with it provided a 5-10% stat increase in 2 of 12 slots. I hope you’ll agree that that kind of very shallow and gradual progression does not force people onto a gear treadmill.
I think it’s important for GW2 to be able to have this kind of gradual progression. Of course we made some mistakes with the way we introduced ascended gear. (See ChrisW’s answers for details.) But those are addressable issues. I don’t think they invalidate the fundamental concept that GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game.
~ MO

As a GW1 fan the part that hits the hardest is what I’ve bolded. It was not clear to me that they would conform with the standard MMO progression system and they never came out and clearly said they would as far as I have seen until now, after I’ve bought the deluxe edition of the game AND spent extra money on gems.

No big deal though, because I shall spend my time in other ways I enjoy as opposed chasing the next biggest carrot.

Wow, I missed that from the AMA interview. Everything he just stated about not wanting to bring over from GW1 were the reasons I loved GW1 so much.

People love collecting!!!!

Look at the real dollar market for some of the old vanity pets in WoW and how many people collect them.

Rift had a whole system just for collecting artifacts, I believe they were called.

I dont love collecting its horder thing and its bloody stupid if i whanted to play for comsetics i would have played BARBY or some game like that this is from person that have done evry titel in gw 1 Gele D u can cheak me and i had many more friends in gw 1 that hated the progresion sistem the only reason we played it was no buy to play

I think your two questions are already answered by considering the nature of power progression. Power progression, or vertical progression, progresses. The current degree of progression doesn’t really matter so much as the introduction of vertical progression; it’s the direction that matters not the degree. The progression of the power level will not stop, and it will bring with it all the cultural aspects of another major MMO that many came of us came to GW2 to escape.

It’ll be interesting to see all the ways you can get Ascended gear once it’s been fully implemented. They’ve also stated that they intend to have this gear out for quite some time before the next tier. We’ll also have to see if future content is still scaled to blues/greens or if it’s scaled to rares/exotics/ascended… Vertical progression only really happens if the content requires you to gear up in order to progress (as far as I can tell, it’s optional and really only necessary in order to get the agony resist). I know I know, WvW “but er’body will have Ascended and me nothing, I’ll get crushed”… Yeah, perhaps on a 1v1 basis, but not if you play the map smartly by traveling with people and using this thing called “strategery” (<—- SNL reference, inb4 people mock it)

I don’t think they invalidate the fundamental concept that GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game.
~ MO

This quote from Mike O’Brien… such a different philosophy than what I was expecting.

The statement even defeats itself… gear treadmills are bad, because they have stat progression.

His statement effectively says that he doesn’t think that it’s invalid that GW2 can have gradual stat progression without it being stat progression…