Guild Wars 2

The way I see it pve and wvw are two different parts of the game that should be kept separate. And as a pve player it bothers me when pve takes a hit for the existence of wvw (this is not to say that wvw should not exist). Some examples:

1. Worlds - If I need to choose a world to represent in wvw, fine. But in pve, server load should be split according to the zone you are currently in, and the community shouldn’t be segregated according to some arbitrary world choice. Now in games like WoW this might have been an advantage, as just seeing another player out in the world makes you squirm sometimes. But GW2 was made to actually promote player cooperation (I would even argue that soloing is quite a pain).
2. World transfer cooldown - Due to the current lack of the guesting feature, world transfer is essential in the game. However, to prevent exploits in wvw, the cooldown for world transfers has been increased to one day, and now to one week. This change affected pve players, instead of just preventing you from participating in wvw for the current match-up. It was especially harmful at the time of the first change, because of all the bugged skill points and events (some bugs are still present in the game).
3. Guilds - To me it seems nonsensical that there is a separate influence pool for each world. Guild members are members of the guild no matter which world they’re playing on. It appears that the only reason for that is wvw, since it doesn’t seem right to allow a guild to accrue wvw guild bonuses on one world and apply them to other worlds.
4. WvW bonuses - I don’t understand why pve players should be awarded/deprived of world bonuses based on the success of other people. This also causes the population to congregate in high ranking servers, leaving other servers somewhat emptier.
5. Currency - I’m not sure how much of an issue this is, but it seems to me as a bad idea that pve and wvw use the same currency – gold, especially considering the imbalanced nature of wvw.
6. Monthly - Also to a lesser extent, but since I don’t enjoy wvw, I don’t like being forced to play wvw to complete my monthly. (To those who argue the same about fractals, I agree, but at least fractals is a part of pve)

These are the main reasons why I think pve is worsened by wvw. What do you guys think?

Note: I do not intend to attack WvW in any way. To each his own. I just want to point out how changes and mechanics in wvw badly reflect on pve because of poor design.

tldr – read the highlighted text

CaptainOok.1048:

1. Guilds - To me it seems nonsensical that there is a separate influence pool for each world. Guild members are members of the guild no matter which world they’re playing on. It appears that the only reason for that is wvw, since it doesn’t seem right to allow a guild to accrue wvw guild bonuses on one world and apply them to other worlds.
2. WvW bonuses - I don’t understand why pve players should be awarded/deprived of world bonuses based on the success of other people. This also causes the population to congregate in high ranking servers, leaving other servers somewhat emptier.

I agree on those parts. Shortsighted “planning” ANet did there. Or maybe no planning at all. You can’t even manage your guild sections on other realms.

I am of the opinion that there should be: separate exploration for the open PvE world and for WvW.; and that there should be three monthlies, a PvE one, a PvP one and a WvW one.

As it is, fine, if I want these achievements I have to go into WvW, even though I do not find it fun. Yes, I can do without the achievements. I’m OK with that, as I can choose not to do these achievements.

However, achievements are part of “things to do” to keep people interested in playing the game. Forcing people to choose between game play they dislike or not doing the achievement is, imo, counter-productive.

Number 1: I’m not sure an automatically unified server pool for PVE zones would be good or bad, it depends on how it handled playing with friends you’ve made and what not. If you were able to electively transfer from one instance of a zone to another in order to play with people you know then why not. But then you basically just have the guest system but always on.

Number 2: should be fixed once guesting goes in.

Number 3: I honestly don’t know why guilds are the way they are in this game. They’re more like chatrooms than guilds unless you and all your guild members opt to treat it like a classic guild where you are only in one at any given time.

Number 4: I believe these bonuses are to encourage more people to participate or to try out WvW as well as provide a concrete reward for those who play WvW to try and do well in it apart from just bragging rights. Besides these are BONUSES not penalties, so why would you complain about free bonuses that you receive from other peoples gameplay?

Number 5: This is a means of controlling the economy by making WvW another gold sink that takes currency out of circulation to prevent inflation.

Number 6: I can make the exact same argument in the opposite direction “why am i forced to pve for my monthly/daily?” and it’s no less valid than yours, so this isn’t really a fair point.

In my opinion, saying “PVE would be better off without WvW” is selfish. Sure maybe PVE would be better if you just deleted WvW, but WvW players and their preferences are just as valid as yours.

CaptainOok.1048:

1. Worlds - If I need to choose a world to represent in wvw, fine. But in pve, server load should be split according to the zone you are currently in, and the community shouldn’t be segregated according to some arbitrary world choice. Now in games like WoW this might have been an advantage, as just seeing another player out in the world makes you squirm sometimes. But GW2 was made to actually promote player cooperation (I would even argue that soloing is quite a pain).

Leave my server alone! Seriously, I don’t want to play around with other folks in the open-world that come from other servers. This might be because I’m on the un-official RP server and actively roleplay, but I really prefer to keep my community in-tact the way it is.

The whole point of Guild Wars 2 is to build a community on your server that you play with, do dungeons and events with, etc…then to take that community with you into WvW. That way you have a community that you belong do that you are fighting for. There’s no reason to mess with that, and there is nothing wrong with the way it is.

In WoW, they’ve put in cross-realm zones, cross-realm dungeons, and cross-realm PvP to the point that you never see the same people twice. That doesn’t foster playing together with other people. You’re supposed to make friends and join guilds. I don’t see why this is such a difficult concept to understand.

Ulfnar.8317:

In my opinion, saying “PVE would be better off without WvW” is selfish. Sure maybe PVE would be better if you just deleted WvW, but WvW players and their preferences are just as valid as yours.

Personally, I have no desire to “do away with” WvW. Separation of PvE and WvW could benefit people who want exploration and monthly achievements but don’t want to go into PvE, just as it would benefit PvE players who don’t care to WvW.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ulfnar.8317:

In my opinion, saying “PVE would be better off without WvW” is selfish. Sure maybe PVE would be better if you just deleted WvW, but WvW players and their preferences are just as valid as yours.

Personally, I have no desire to “do away with” WvW. Separation of PvE and WvW could benefit people who want exploration and monthly achievements but don’t want to go into PvE, just as it would benefit PvE players who don’t care to WvW.

Separation of achievements would be pretty easy, as long as you treat both aspects equally as far as rewards go.

I don’t think full separation is a great idea though. Apart from forcing pve players to wvw and vice versa for dailies, I don’t see any real negative impacts that either aspect of the game has on the other, especially once the guesting feature is present.

Ultimately its a bit of a compromise. I think ideally ANet wants all players to play all parts of the game. Just like eating your vegetables, this is good for you.

But since ANet is a game company and not your parents, they don’t want to force you to do stuff you dont want to. So instead, they provide various incentives and rewards to doing so. If you want the reward, you have to fulfill the requirements.

Feeling “forced” is an inevitable flipside to “incentives for behaviour”. If you provide a reward for a behaviour, you’ll inevitably get those who want the reward but dont want to do the behaviour, who will complain that they are being “forced”.

As for problems 1 & 2, ANet not being able to have guesting working from release is really hurting them here.

1. I hope they will merge PvE servers due to the low population for certain levels. While I haven’t encountered the complete ghost town that some people have, I have done plenty of dynamic events alone and it gets lonely.
2. I’m okay with the week long. Guesting will be good.
3. Not sure why there are so many different server branches of a guild anyway, since it’s not difficult to transfer.
4. In each bracket, the top server will receive the most bonuses. There is no need to transfer servers unless your server is utterly unable to be competitive at all in its current bracket. The bonus difference at the end of the week between the top and the lowest usually isn’t that extreme either, unless I’m missing something? Sure was nice to finally get them after the November patch though.
5. Kinda ambivalent about this.
6. I do a lot of WvW, so it’s no hardship for me, but I imagine that at some point, Anet will/should rotate that out?

Pshh well PvE is stealing potential WvW participants >:c

Ulfnar.8317:

Number 1: I’m not sure an automatically unified server pool for PVE zones would be good or bad, it depends on how it handled playing with friends you’ve made and what not. If you were able to electively transfer from one instance of a zone to another in order to play with people you know then why not. But then you basically just have the guest system but always on.

Number 2: should be fixed once guesting goes in.

Number 3: I honestly don’t know why guilds are the way they are in this game. They’re more like chatrooms than guilds unless you and all your guild members opt to treat it like a classic guild where you are only in one at any given time.

Number 4: I believe these bonuses are to encourage more people to participate or to try out WvW as well as provide a concrete reward for those who play WvW to try and do well in it apart from just bragging rights. Besides these are BONUSES not penalties, so why would you complain about free bonuses that you receive from other peoples gameplay?

Number 5: This is a means of controlling the economy by making WvW another gold sink that takes currency out of circulation to prevent inflation.

Number 6: I can make the exact same argument in the opposite direction “why am i forced to pve for my monthly/daily?” and it’s no less valid than yours, so this isn’t really a fair point.

In my opinion, saying “PVE would be better off without WvW” is selfish. Sure maybe PVE would be better if you just deleted WvW, but WvW players and their preferences are just as valid as yours.

1: Exactly. There will be several instances of each zone and you can move freely between them. I don’t see a reason to have a guesting feature instead of just allowing you to switch instances (bugs aside).

2: And we have no information on when guesting will be added… Anyway this was just an example why pve and wvw should be better separated.

3: I agree that multiple guild is an issues, but really this is a different topic.

4: Maybe this system is intended to encourage people to do well in wvw, but it’s a bad system in my opinion. It shouldn’t affect pve. And I’m sorry, but a lack of a bonus is a penalty. pve players in a high ranking world shouldn’t be favored over pve players in a low ranking world – the pve is the same in all of them.

5: I wasn’t referring to wvw being a gold sink. On the contrary, I think allows you to generate a lot of gold. And given the imbalanced (world-wise) nature of wvw, I don’t think this gold should cross over to pve. (Again I don’t have exact number on this so I can’t be sure)

6: Yes, you could! This only strengthens my point. wvw and pve achievement should be separated.

And yes, I am saying that pve is better off without wvw, because I think it’s true. And as much as I want to, I’m not suggesting to delete simply remove wvw, because that wouldn’t be fair to wvw players. I think a better solution will be to better ensure that pve wouldn’t take a fall so that wvw can stay viable. (as it is with pvp)

CaptainOok.1048:

Ulfnar.8317:

Number 1: I’m not sure an automatically unified server pool for PVE zones would be good or bad, it depends on how it handled playing with friends you’ve made and what not. If you were able to electively transfer from one instance of a zone to another in order to play with people you know then why not. But then you basically just have the guest system but always on.

Number 2: should be fixed once guesting goes in.

Number 3: I honestly don’t know why guilds are the way they are in this game. They’re more like chatrooms than guilds unless you and all your guild members opt to treat it like a classic guild where you are only in one at any given time.

Number 4: I believe these bonuses are to encourage more people to participate or to try out WvW as well as provide a concrete reward for those who play WvW to try and do well in it apart from just bragging rights. Besides these are BONUSES not penalties, so why would you complain about free bonuses that you receive from other peoples gameplay?

Number 5: This is a means of controlling the economy by making WvW another gold sink that takes currency out of circulation to prevent inflation.

Number 6: I can make the exact same argument in the opposite direction “why am i forced to pve for my monthly/daily?” and it’s no less valid than yours, so this isn’t really a fair point.

In my opinion, saying “PVE would be better off without WvW” is selfish. Sure maybe PVE would be better if you just deleted WvW, but WvW players and their preferences are just as valid as yours.

1: Exactly. There will be several instances of each zone and you can move freely between them. I don’t see a reason to have a guesting feature instead of just allowing you to switch instances (bugs aside).

2: And we have no information on when guesting will be added… Anyway this was just an example why pve and wvw should be better separated.

3: I agree that multiple guild is an issues, but really this is a different topic.

4: Maybe this system is intended to encourage people to do well in wvw, but it’s a bad system in my opinion. It shouldn’t affect pve. And I’m sorry, but a lack of a bonus is a penalty. pve players in a high ranking world shouldn’t be favored over pve players in a low ranking world – the pve is the same in all of them.

5: I wasn’t referring to wvw being a gold sink. On the contrary, I think allows you to generate a lot of gold. And given the imbalanced (world-wise) nature of wvw, I don’t think this gold should cross over to pve. (Again I don’t have exact number on this so I can’t be sure)

6: Yes, you could! This only strengthens my point. wvw and pve achievement should be separated.

And yes, I am saying that pve is better off without wvw, because I think it’s true. And as much as I want to, I’m not suggesting to delete simply remove wvw, because that wouldn’t be fair to wvw players. I think a better solution will be to better ensure that pve wouldn’t take a fall so that wvw can stay viable. (as it is with pvp)

The problem with suggesting a separate currency system for WvW is again completely not fair to the WvW players. What currency does the TP use? gold. If you deprive WvWers a way of making gold during their chosen method of play, you are unfairly discriminating against them and locking them out of working towards things like a legendary weapon.

Why should PvEr’s have an economic advantage over WvWers simply because they like to grind mobs and dungeons instead of battling other players and going on sieges?

Yeah well, thing is, this game was marketed as a PvP MMO, sucks that PvP effected your PvE but your PvE utterly trashed our PvP.

Thanks.

Rhysati.4932:

Leave my server alone! Seriously, I don’t want to play around with other folks in the open-world that come from other servers. This might be because I’m on the un-official RP server and actively roleplay, but I really prefer to keep my community in-tact the way it is.

The whole point of Guild Wars 2 is to build a community on your server that you play with, do dungeons and events with, etc…then to take that community with you into WvW. That way you have a community that you belong do that you are fighting for. There’s no reason to mess with that, and there is nothing wrong with the way it is.

In WoW, they’ve put in cross-realm zones, cross-realm dungeons, and cross-realm PvP to the point that you never see the same people twice. That doesn’t foster playing together with other people. You’re supposed to make friends and join guilds. I don’t see why this is such a difficult concept to understand.

I wasn’t aware of the existence of unofficial RP servers in the game. Eventually it is unavoidable to split the community, but again I think it should be done according to reasonable parameters (region in the world, languages, RP servers, PvP servers….) and not some random server choice.

It may be your opinion that that is “whole point” of the game, but for me and many other pve players wvw isn’t really even a part of the picture. And I wish it were true, but there is something wrong with the way it is. Frankly, I don’t like the idea that there are some people I can’t play with in pve simply because they are on a different world. It might have worked when the game was released with the initial surge occupying mostly the same space. But already the population in some (even most) pve zones has started to dwindle and it will only get worse. And it is just like you said, I want to belong to a community, not play by myself.

In regards to having a community that you are fighting for, perhaps it would be best best to have wvw guilds as well, guilds that are aligned with a specific world. And if you want to group up only with these people in pve you’re more than welcome.

As for what you said about WoW, of course you don’t see the same people twice! That is a good thing! Those are random groups that are supposed to make you meet new people. If you want to see the same people and make friends no one’s stopping you; Just add them to your friends list and group up with them whenever you want. And if you don’t want to make friends then don’t. I think there are people that will disagree with you on “You’re supposed to make friends and join guilds”.

nofo.8469:

Yeah well, thing is, this game was marketed as a PvP MMO, sucks that PvP effected your PvE but your PvE utterly trashed our PvP.

Thanks.

Did I miss a memo? Where on earth did you get the idea that this game was marketed as a PvP mmo? If you ever even watched guild wars 2 promotional videos you’d see them going on and on about the story, dynamic events and cooperative pve. Even in ArenaNet’s MMO Manifesto there isn’t ONE reference to PvP!
And if you’d only be so kind to give us an example as to how pve trashed pvp?

Thanks.

CaptainOok.1048:

1. Monthly - Also to a lesser extent, but since I don’t enjoy wvw, I don’t like being forced to play wvw to complete my monthly. (To those who argue the same about fractals, I agree, but at least fractals is a part of pve)

These are the main reasons why I think pve would be better off without wvw. What do you guys think?

tldr – read the highlighted text

This here is driving me nuts because I can’t stand Fractals, did so much harm than good to the game, should have been do “x amount” of dungeons to at least put more players in the world instead of cramming everyone into LA. I personally enjoy both WvWvW and PvE so it does not bother me having to do both with the exception of this last month due to my rant above, I will not be completing it this month, I find it that unenjoyable. Would like to see a monthly 100% WvWvW based, heck I would even take a crafting monthly over whats there now.

Ulfnar.8317:

The problem with suggesting a separate currency system for WvW is again completely not fair to the WvW players. What currency does the TP use? gold. If you deprive WvWers a way of making gold during their chosen method of play, you are unfairly discriminating against them and locking them out of working towards things like a legendary weapon.

Why should PvEr’s have an economic advantage over WvWers simply because they like to grind mobs and dungeons instead of battling other players and going on sieges?

But a different system already exist within the game – in PvP! I’m not suggesting to deprive wvw players of legendary weapons and wvw can still have everything pve players have, just under a different set of rules (not necessarily the pvp ones).

I’ve always been for separating PvE and PvP game play. Let PvP players have their open world PvP + mists on a separate server. And let the PvE players play on a separate server. PvP players get all the PvP monthlies, dailies, legendary etc, without getting out of PvP.
PvE players get all the monthlies, dailies, legendary etc without the need to PvP.
I really don’t see the need for ANET to “force” people into playing a certain playstyle that they don’t like (no one bring up the manifesto..), just so that they can achieve some end game content. As the OP pointed out what’s the point of playing the game if you can’t (because it’s not how you define “fun”) play the “optional” part of the game.

So TC, you want segregation between PvE and PvP players, and to punish PvPers for PvPing by way of several things that could adversely affect all players who PvP? Sounds like you need to rethink your arguments a bit.

1) Totally agree on that.. that would be very nice to have Open World PvP server and PvE server.

2) Since PvE and WvW both are part of the game play for this GW2, as long as no PvP only server or PvE only server…I guess we all have to get used to it.

3) N/A

4) For this one , its all in the 1) and 2).

5) I’m sure they are going to do something about it.

6 ) Well .. think of it this way. W3 isn’t much different from PvE. only different is Pre-programmed mobs vs Live plyers that are not pre-programmed which mean that they might not do this kind of AoE every 20 sec or so. Also, use your guild, set up the " Guild w3" day or something , gather a pt or 2 , and go out there Rambo. If you die .. so what ? go back to wp and go different way and do again. Im pretty sure those players going to get killed by you guys are not going to qq, so you dont have to feel sorry for them and just get your Monthly. After u get what you came for, dont look back w3 for next month. done deal .

Edit : And I can Promise you that, if u bring your Guild out even just for Monthly w3, your server going to appreciate you guys for coming out and do w3

RyuDragnier.9476:

So TC, you want segregation between PvE and PvP players, and to punish PvPers for PvPing by way of several things that could adversely affect all players who PvP? Sounds like you need to rethink your arguments a bit.

I assume that by pvp you mean wvw. And no, I don’t want segregation between pve and wvw players, I want segregation between pve and wvw. Besides, I really don’t get your point there – if two players strictly play only in one different part of the game (be it pve, wvw or pvp) they will never play with each other as it is.
And I really have no idea what you mean by punishing pvpers. Could you be more specific?

Gobi.7508:

2) Since PvE and WvW both are part of the game play for this GW2, as long as no PvP only server or PvE only server…I guess we all have to get used to it.

I completely disagree on that. pve and wvw are both two different parts of the game. Just as they don’t expect pve players to spvp if they don’t want to, they shouldn’t expect them to wvw either, and vise versa. Besides, why are you assuming there’s not room for improvement? What’s wrong with what I suggested that when you use world transfer you can enter the current match-up of wvw? That wouldn’t impact pve at all.

Gobi.7508:

6 ) Well .. think of it this way. W3 isn’t much different from PvE. only different is Pre-programmed mobs vs Live plyers that are not pre-programmed which mean that they might not do this kind of AoE every 20 sec or so. Also, use your guild, set up the " Guild w3" day or something , gather a pt or 2 , and go out there Rambo. If you die .. so what ? go back to wp and go different way and do again. Im pretty sure those players going to get killed by you guys are not going to qq, so you dont have to feel sorry for them and just get your Monthly. After u get what you came for, dont look back w3 for next month. done deal.

Okay now you’re just being ridiculous. WvW for me is running around (and a lot of it) with 5 fps (I know I can get a better comp but trust me the fps is the least of my problems in wvw) shooting at invisible people or walls, and when it’s not that it’s trying to tag as many people as I can in wall vs wall (that’s how it should have been called), and trust me no matter how skillful I am the biggest zerg always wins. And I can try going commando behind enemy lines which is fun to some degree, but then when I have some bad luck and get killed by a huge zerg, I have to run back for so long that I wanna shoot myself. So that is why I am so reluctant to play wvw at all. But I don’t mind sucking it up (and that’s why I said in the OP “to a lesser extent”). You really hit the nail on the head there when you said “After u get what you came for, dont look back w3 for next month. done deal.”. Thing is I don’t get how you can say these words and still think that this is an ideal situation.

CaptainOok.1048:

nofo.8469:

Yeah well, thing is, this game was marketed as a PvP MMO, sucks that PvP effected your PvE but your PvE utterly trashed our PvP.

Thanks.

Did I miss a memo? Where on earth did you get the idea that this game was marketed as a PvP mmo? If you ever even watched guild wars 2 promotional videos you’d see them going on and on about the story, dynamic events and cooperative pve. Even in ArenaNet’s MMO Manifesto there isn’t ONE reference to PvP!
And if you’d only be so kind to give us an example as to how pve trashed pvp?

Thanks.

Literally one minute into the video you linked he states “GW2 takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it into a persistent world.”

You are aware that GW1 was primarily a game designed around guild based PvP, is it really that shocking to conclude that the next iteration in the series which takes everything that is loved about GW1 might be about the same thing. Also note the name “Guild Wars.”

Also in the promo videos they pushed competitive PvP as hard or harder than PvE content, but that turned out to be not very well received but that doesn’t mean they should abandon the idea that the game will be a competitive PvP game because they botched one facet of it.

On to your question though, PvEers complaining about nothing to do endgame caused the release of fractals which effectively butchered any chance of this game having a longstanding PvP community that was in anyway integrated with the rest of the game.

I have have been a bit too forceful stating the game was primarily marketed as a PvP game, I will hand that one to you that on looking back through all the advertising for this game it was marketed as both PvP and a PvE game; and neither seems to be a primary focus.

nofo.8469:

Literally one minute into the video you linked he states “GW2 takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it into a persistent world.”

1) GW1 is a lot of PvE, in fact, mostly PvE
2) It says ‘what you love about’, not ‘what you think it was designed for’
3) Taking that same line and putting persistent world into context around GW1 you realize it is about it’s ‘instanced’ nature, of PvE.
3) The manifesto primarily is about PvE
4) Thread is about WvW, which isn’t competive PvP
5) WvW seems pretty much alive to me, I’ve been queued up occasionally

frans.8092:

nofo.8469:

Literally one minute into the video you linked he states “GW2 takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it into a persistent world.”

1) GW1 is a lot of PvE, in fact, mostly PvE
2) It says ‘what you love about’, not ‘what you think it was designed for’
3) Taking that same line and putting persistent world into context around GW1 you realize it is about it’s ‘instanced’ nature, of PvE.
3) The manifesto primarily is about PvE
4) Thread is about WvW, which isn’t competive PvP
5) WvW seems pretty much alive to me, I’ve been queued up occasionally

1) Its a lot of both.

2) A lot of people loved GW1 PvP.

3) Or it could be talking about the instanced nature of PvP.

3b) True

4) WvW is competitive PvP.

5) Depends on the server, but its in serious decline. It’s still alive no doubt but the fractals patch hit the WvW community hard.

edit: From wiki regarding guildwars 1.

Guild Wars is a CORPG, or Competitive/Cooperative Online Role Playing Game developed for Windows by ArenaNet and published by NCsoft. The first campaign of Guild Wars, Guild Wars Prophecies was released on April 28, 2005. The different genre was chosen (as opposed to the classic “Massively Multiplayer Online (MMO) RPG”) due to the perceived differences between the game and other, more traditional MMOs: the focus on Player versus Player (PvP) rather than Player versus Environment (PvE) play made it almost a unique case at the time, players received their own instanced copy of explorable zones and parties were limited to 8 players each, a tiny number compared to the massive caps of other games, which often allowed for up to 64 players in a single party (and unlimited players in non-instanced zones, which were the norm).

1-2: It’ll be awesome when Anet adds guesting.
3: Since Anet made guilds exist across all servers, they need to step it up and make things I do on one server affect another one, unlike any other game.
4: Just knowing that someone on another server may have 1-5% more/less of a chance to get a 4th mat off a node than I do REALLY MAKES ME JEALOUS!.
5: (I can’t even begin to understand the nature of this complaint…I’m guessing you think the game dishes out money for nothing in WvW?)
6: Legit complaint (though only if you’re on a terrible WvW server). Without specifically trying for it and without being a ‘WvW-focused’ player, it’s always the part I finish first (and usually in an hour). I’d say fractals are a bigger problem because of the dc’s and inability to rejoin. Regardless, I sucked it up and got into a couple lucky groups with no dc’s and burned through all 7 in a day.

…and no, @nofo. WvW isn’t competetive PvP. It’s essentially open-world PvP which is a lot closer to PvE.

FTFY.

nofo.8469:

frans.8092:

nofo.8469:

Literally one minute into the video you linked he states “GW2 takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it into a persistent world.”

1) GW1 is a lot of PvE, in fact, mostly PvE
2) It says ‘what you love about’, not ‘what you think it was designed for’
3) Taking that same line and putting persistent world into context around GW1 you realize it is about it’s ‘instanced’ nature, of PvE.
3) The manifesto primarily is about PvE
4) Thread is about WvW, which isn’t competive PvP
5) WvW seems pretty much alive to me, I’ve been queued up occasionally

1) Its a lot of both.

2) A lot of people loved GW1 PvP.

3) Or it could be talking about the instanced nature of PvP.

3b) True

4) WvW is competitive PvP.

5) Depends on the server, but its in serious decline. It’s still alive no doubt but the fractals patch hit the WvW community hard.

edit: From wiki regarding guildwars 1.

Guild Wars is a CORPG, or Competitive/Cooperative Online Role Playing Game developed for Windows by ArenaNet and published by NCsoft. The first campaign of Guild Wars, Guild Wars Prophecies was released on April 28, 2005. The different genre was chosen (as opposed to the classic “Massively Multiplayer Online (MMO) RPG”) due to the perceived differences between the game and other, more traditional MMOs: the focus on Player versus Player (PvP) rather than Player versus Environment (PvE) play made it almost a unique case at the time, players received their own instanced copy of explorable zones and parties were limited to 8 players each, a tiny number compared to the massive caps of other games, which often allowed for up to 64 players in a single party (and unlimited players in non-instanced zones, which were the norm).

I can’t believe that you actually quote one sentence out of the video (which is a completely empty gesture btw) and twist it to make your own point, instead of focusing on the real content of that video. Guild Wars at first was centered around pvp, I’ll give you that. However, if you even stuck around for some time you’d know that Nightfall and Eye of the North were expansions to pve only. But even that is besides the point since Guild Wars 2 is not Guild Wars! Get over it, it’s a new game! And if you wanna get all literal on its name – GW2 doesn’t have Guild vs Guild anymore, unlike GW.
I’m not sure what you meant by saying that fractals hit the wvw community, because that minuscule addition to your attributes doesn’t really make any difference.

I don’t be liken havin ‘ta do da foolish FoTM, but it be required ’ta do the monthly. It be why I ain’t be doin ’da monthly fer several moons.

Voltar.8574:

1-2: It’ll be awesome when Anet adds guesting.
3: Since Anet made guilds exist across all servers, they need to step it up and make things I do on one server affect another one, unlike any other game.
4: Just knowing that someone on another server may have 1-5% more/less of a chance to get a 4th mat off a node than I do REALLY MAKES ME JEALOUS!.
5: (I can’t even begin to understand the nature of this complaint…I’m guessing you think the game dishes out money for nothing in WvW?)
6: Legit complaint (though only if you’re on a terrible WvW server). Without specifically trying for it and without being a ‘WvW-focused’ player, it’s always the part I finish first (and usually in an hour). I’d say fractals are a bigger problem because of the dc’s and inability to rejoin. Regardless, I sucked it up and got into a couple lucky groups with no dc’s and burned through all 7 in a day.

…and no, @nofo. WvW isn’t competetive PvP. It’s essentially open-world PvP which is a lot closer to PvE.

FTFY.

1-2: I don’t get why everyone is so excited about that guesting feature. Don’t you see this is just a workaround designed to bypass the mistake that is pve worlds? I mean if you can freely travel between worlds you have friends on – so now what? you’ll try to add a friend from each world so you can hop to each world at will? and what about the zones that already see a small amount of traffic? will the community now decide on a world that is the first priority so that people go there if they actually wanna see anyone?
4: I wish it was just that. But these bonuses also add to you armor, hp, healing and endurance regeneration practically making pve content much easier to handle. And the bonuses to critical crafting chance, additional node uses and extra gold drops allow you to get a financial advantage.
5: That is the main issue in my opinion – if you’re on the winning server you can just join the zerg closest to your home running around doing nothing and getting a lot of gold off it.

CaptainOok.1048:

Worlds - If I need to choose a world to represent in wvw, fine. But in pve, server load should be split according to the zone you are currently in, and the community shouldn’t be segregated according to some arbitrary world choice. Now in games like WoW this might have been an advantage, as just seeing another player out in the world makes you squirm sometimes. But GW2 was made to actually promote player cooperation (I would even argue that soloing is quite a pain).
World transfer cooldown - Due to the current lack of the guesting feature, world transfer is essential in the game. However, to prevent exploits in wvw, the cooldown for world transfers has been increased to one day, and now to one week. This change affected pve players, instead of just preventing you from participating in wvw for the current match-up. It was especially harmful at the time of the first change, because of all the bugged skill points and events (some bugs are still present in the game).

These issues all stem around world transfers. Are there really that big of a need to transfer worlds daily? Why does one need to continually change servers for PvE purposes?

WvW bonuses - I don’t understand why pve players should be awarded/deprived of world bonuses based on the success of other people. This also causes the population to congregate in high ranking servers, leaving other servers somewhat emptier.
Currency - I’m not sure how much of an issue this is, but it seems to me as a bad idea that pve and wvw use the same currency – gold, especially considering the imbalanced nature of wvw.

I think you are classifying players as ONLY PvE OR wvw. I’d guess the vast majority of players do both activities. Gold and drops from one gets used for the other.
You are saying that people congregate to high pop servers…. They are all high pop. And if you transfer to the best ones you are going to get a queue because everyone is there since all servers are capped at 150 a map.

Jairlyn.1429:

These issues all stem around world transfers. Are there really that big of a need to transfer worlds daily? Why does one need to continually change servers for PvE purposes?

You got it a bit wrong. The first issue refers to the arbitrary separation of the community in pve, which causes some zones to become desolate.
The second one is regarding world transfers. As to why – in the game you can interact with many people in different worlds, e.g. in overflow shards or dungeon groups, so you might need to change servers many times so you can play with your friends.

Jairlyn.1429:

I think you are classifying players as ONLY PvE OR wvw. I’d guess the vast majority of players do both activities. Gold and drops from one gets used for the other.
You are saying that people congregate to high pop servers…. They are all high pop. And if you transfer to the best ones you are going to get a queue because everyone is there since all servers are capped at 150 a map.

I play both pve and spvp, so why shouldn’t I get gold for doing spvp? They are separated for a reason. Seriously though, gold is the issue that bothers me the least.
And believe me when I say that I know many people that have zero to no interest in wvw because they think it is broken and boring, and I truly believe that it is not the “vast majority” that actually plays wvw, and doesn’t just go in for their monthly. And I was referring to that group of people that doesn’t really care for wvw, only the bonuses they get, so queues aren’t really an issue.

CaptainOok.1048:

I play both pve and spvp, so why shouldn’t I get gold for doing spvp?

Because you simply dont use gold in spvp?? You get all your gear for FREE???

Not like its hard to understand

If we dont get gold in WvW

WvWers would:

1. all be running around naked because when we die, we pay repair bills, not like in spvp
2. no one places siege since they use gold
3. no one upgrades stuff anymore because they require gold
4. the only gear we can get is now Pow, Vit, Toughness gear since we can only get 1 set
through badges. And no money to buy gear anymore
5. forget about legendaries and ascended gear too
6. You better be making your own foods, runes and sigils because you have no money to buy them off the TP, and no we dont get those from badges
7. Forget about accessories too since you cant get those in WvW, and yes we dont get those from badges too

Did i miss anything? most likely i did…….

As it stands now……the only thing you can get with badges now is 1 set of ugly armor and a few pieces of siege

Remove gold gain from WvW and you might as well delete the whole game mode

Not to mention its much easier to get money in PVE compared to WvW
and its also much much much easier to get an armor set from dunguen tokens rather than badges

With the terrible effort to reward ratio in WvW compared to PVE in truth what is really happening is PVE stealing all the WvW population

Look at the WvW forums, look at how everyone is saying WvW is dying because it isnt rewarding enough.

And yes i personally make a lot more money in PVE compared to WvW
Since its siege dreaming bay for an hour, racking up repair bills and making 6 silver when we finally take it omg…..nevermind all the 24s trebs, 12s cats and 6s rams the other people are putting down, im barely scrapping a living out of this mess
Compared to killing a karka in Southsun cove, and looting a karka shell worth 4 silver in 10 seconds

nofo.8469:

4) WvW is competitive PvP.

While this is true in the strict sense of the word, WvW is NOT like GW1 PvP, except in that players are fighting players. Every PvP game in GW1 featured balanced sides. There, the difference was in build/skill, not numbers. I’ve yet to be in a WvW zone where the numbers were not grossly skewed in favor of one of the three servers. I realize this is by design, but this design does not promote fun for me. I also realize that ommv.

I don’t expect the game to change to accommodate those who would like to do monthlies and get an explore achievement without going into the horrid mess that I find WvW to be. However, splitting these achievements would give players who don’t want to WvW something more to do. The current choice is to play a part of the game they don’t find fun, or give up on those achievements. Splitting the achievements and monthlies would also give those who want to WvW and PvE more to do, as they could get both. They did make a PvP monthly to accommodate those who don’t want to PvE, after all.

The gear and numbers difference makes WvW noncompetitive, imo.

Rhysati.4932:

Leave my server alone! Seriously, I don’t want to play around with other folks in the open-world that come from other servers. This might be because I’m on the un-official RP server and actively roleplay, but I really prefer to keep my community in-tact the way it is.

I’m with you, Rhysati. I think server communities definitely take on distinct personalities, as people settle into the servers where they feel most comfortable, and switch when they don’t. I love that people wander around Tarnished Coast roleplaying, and that those that aren’t into it just ignore it and carry on with their business (for the most part; every large enough group has its bad actors, of course). I like running into people, and Guild tags, that I recognize, even if I’ve never actually interacted with them beyond doing events together. Creating a pool of players so large that you never run into the same person twice would only decrease what sense of server community there is, and increase the cries that we already hear frequently in the forums about GW2 not providing a sufficiently ‘social’ experience.

I feel that fractals and the endless grind have killed pve.

I think this could be fixed by having an equivalent PvE instance of server-wide objectives, something like this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/New-Dungeon-Style-server-wide-objectives

currently PvE content is quite weak, casual players might be fine, but if you have a bit more time to play, dungeons get old quickly

I prefer PvE. WvW is just PvP mob-style. The forums even classify WvW under the PvP category. I agree with OP that WvW should have no effect on PvE, particularly in regards to server populations, guild influence, and daily achievements.

Also why does my world exploration have WvW in it? It’s through the mists – not part of Tyria.

I hope WvW disappears soon – it’s despicable.

GW 2 is basically 5 games:

PvP
WvW
PvE – Open World
PvE – Dungeons
PvE – Personal Story

I wish ANet had picked one and gotten it right before trying to add another.

FilthyRatkitten.8953:

I feel that fractals and the endless grind have killed pve.

At least silly design killed the living world or at least is slowly.
Why did they put three dungeons past 70?
Why put the newest content into the most crowded city?

zerorelative.3104:

I prefer PvE. WvW is just PvP mob-style. The forums even classify WvW under the PvP category. I agree with OP that WvW should have no effect on PvE, particularly in regards to server populations, guild influence, and daily achievements.

Also why does my world exploration have WvW in it? It’s through the mists – not part of Tyria.

I hope WvW disappears soon – it’s despicable.

GW 2 is basically 5 games:

PvP
WvW
PvE – Open World
PvE – Dungeons
PvE – Personal Story

I wish ANet had picked one and gotten it right before trying to add another.

Sorry to hear that you’re limiting yourself to not fully experience Guild Wars 2 as a whole.

crystal.5930:

Rhysati.4932:

Leave my server alone! Seriously, I don’t want to play around with other folks in the open-world that come from other servers. This might be because I’m on the un-official RP server and actively roleplay, but I really prefer to keep my community in-tact the way it is.

I’m with you, Rhysati. I think server communities definitely take on distinct personalities, as people settle into the servers where they feel most comfortable, and switch when they don’t. I love that people wander around Tarnished Coast roleplaying, and that those that aren’t into it just ignore it and carry on with their business (for the most part; every large enough group has its bad actors, of course). I like running into people, and Guild tags, that I recognize, even if I’ve never actually interacted with them beyond doing events together. Creating a pool of players so large that you never run into the same person twice would only decrease what sense of server community there is, and increase the cries that we already hear frequently in the forums about GW2 not providing a sufficiently ‘social’ experience.

I guess I never considered that. Personally, I never felt a sense of community with my entire server or almost any group outside my friends and guilds. And even if I do meet the same person twice, I don’t think much of it since I’m probably not going to interact with them too much. On the contrary, I do want to meet new people.
Anyway, maybe it will be best to reserve a number of small servers, based on demand, to accommodate people who want a sense of server community, and to merge the rest of the servers for us that want to be with the entire community.

Amra.6028:

FilthyRatkitten.8953:

I feel that fractals and the endless grind have killed pve.

At least silly design killed the living world or at least is slowly.
Why did they put three dungeons past 70?
Why put the newest content into the most crowded city?

I completely agree that pve is far from perfect, and there are many things I want to change in pve.
However, this thread was intended to point out the bad design that causes wvw to affect pve.

Khairos.3890:

Sorry to hear that you’re limiting yourself to not fully experience Guild Wars 2 as a whole.

I can speak for myself when I say that I’m not the one limiting myself. I play pve and pvp, and I do want to experience everything this game has to offer. But I just can’t enjoy wvw. For me it’s just incomplete, imbalanced, repetitive and boring. I also wrote my experience in wvw in one of my posts in the thread.

Fractals still being a part of PvE isn’t a silver lining.
That’s like saying cancer is a silver lining because it’s just a deadly growth and not a deadly virus.

While I have not gone into the issues as deeply as the OP clearly has, I do have some clear-cut suggestions.

1. Separate achievements between WvW and PvE. Being forced to go into WvW sucks.

2. Separate influence pool for guilds in WvW and PvE.
You should not be able to take hard-eaned influence from PvE players and spend it in WvW. That’s just stupid to me.

3. And I totally agree that guilds shouldn’t have separate influence pools in separate servers.

To that, I suggest this – When a player who is a member of a guild in a different server enters WvW, they must choose between representing their guild, or their server.

If they choose their guild, they will be transferred to that guild’s WvW server. And when they return to their own server, they will enjoy the bonuses their server possesses.

And to expand on this: Things like Guild Stash should be game-wide.
Guild vaults being server-wide when members can be in different servers is silly.

CaptainOok.1048:

Amra.6028:

FilthyRatkitten.8953:

I feel that fractals and the endless grind have killed pve.

At least silly design killed the living world or at least is slowly.
Why did they put three dungeons past 70?
Why put the newest content into the most crowded city?

I completely agree that pve is far from perfect, and there are many things I want to change in pve.
However, this thread was intended to point out the bad design that causes wvw to affect pve.

My main point is that fractals have probably done more harm to pve, than any other factor in the game. It is one of the best ways to make money and because of the grind in this game that is all some people ever do anymore. The population in Orr has dropped since fractal introduction.

I do agree that some things should be kept separate…world completion. I love WvW and have only only bought the upgrades and realized that you had to build new ones each time you want to use one (focus on magic find and unlocking new upgrades). So this just seems like an issue with a players particular guild.

So these is a awesome rage of a pve hero that only want to kill a mob, amazing.

I really want pk in these game to kill all the pve players.

On the subject of PvE vs WvW, counter to some of the above arguments, and in recognition of the above points that they are currently very separate and don’t care about eachother:

I’d like to put my name down to support any effort to make a server as a whole; PvE and WvW, feel more united against other servers. so it really ALL is WvWvW.

Bonus points if it gets those spamming jerks out of Lions Arch and spread all around the world to participate.

Tumbero.3945:

So these is a awesome rage of a pve hero that only want to kill a mob, amazing.

I really want pk in these game to kill all the pve players.

As I’ve already said, I play both pve and pvp. It is my personal opinion that wvw sucks. But if that’s what you like to do, by all means do it.
I just want that having wvw in the game will not badly impact the pve experience. I do not wish to harm wvw.