Guild Wars 2

There are a lot of beta relics that needs upgrading from beta concept of the 119g for yellow rarity cultural armors to items created when inflation was a problem to unfortunately, seemingly forgotten forms of currency (trade karma for treasure seeking shovels plox). There is a lot that needs to be upgrading and attention from 2012.

Sigils received quite an nice upgrade, Guild Wars 2 best patch, allowing the ability to equip two same Sigil types. However, this mechanic upgrade was a double edge sword, and sort of still is. Despite some problems, it was like a breath of fresh air in a very stale enviroment.

Anyone else feel that there are a lot of dry Sigils? I’m not talking the current ones like Sigil of Mischief or Sigil of Renewal but look at how many ones that are just poorly thought out.

• Sigil of Benevolence, each stack increases outgoing healing.
  On paper, sounds interesting but in battle, “LETS KILL STUFF SO I CAN HEAL YOU MOAR!”
  Yeah… No.

Increasing stats =/= Increasing fun.

One thing a lot of game designers need to keep in mind is that in a game where you design and grow a character from the ground up, in a way, it’s legos.
Building blocks, stuff the players take and morph into something themselves. You start with a base and add to it.

Lets look at a base for this Sigil, who do we wish to cater it too? You want to also be a support Sigil and appeal to support players. All sigils have an combat use, focusing on triggering on kills, dodges and hits.

• Sigil of Benevolence, heal nearby allies when you hit a foe.
  5 second cooldown
  Interesting but where will that block go? It can go with any build really, which is exactly the problem. You’re not building, you’re increasing. You must limit it’s use to make it more appealing. “Playing healing for everyone? Here is healing more for everyone!”

• Sigil of Benevolence, heal nearby allies when you hit a foe. granting might to allies also heals them.
  2 second cooldown
  That’s waaaay to limiting and it’s catering too much to fire combo fields, not to mention doesn’t stick with the theme, dodge, hit or kill. This would be more for Runes or traits rather than a Sigil.

• Sigil of Benevolence, granting might to allies also heals them. 20% chance when you hit a foe, heal a nearby ally with the lowest health.
  2 second cooldown
  Now we are getting somewhere, but it’s building block is still too gimmicky. Following the trend of “here is more healing” and it can be even better.

• Sigil of Benevolence, 20% chance when you hit a foe, heal a nearby ally with the lowest health and grant them might (5 seconds).
  5 second cooldown
  Now we are talking! This is a perfect building block that appeals to people that like playing support that fits in with Sigil of Water and Sigil of Renewal. Do you wish to favor more healing or lean towards a little offense for your team?

It all falls back onto building, not increasing. Once you have a base, build onto it.

Now if support could only be useful in PvE, HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
cough
This is a good start for making dungeons hard and the option to make them easy.
cough

I think its a good idea, I have a couple Sigils I would like to add to the list. I wont bother mentioning runes for now. =P

Sigil of luck
oo yay a boon, plus low chance its anything good… or you could just use sigil of restoration and get a guaranteed 500+ hp per kill. If they swapped it to be something like get a boon on hit (with an appropriate cd) then it could be fun.

Sigil of demon summoning
Possibly the worst sigil.. ever? Once use once have to die to charge again, plus it summons a rather worthless (maybe takes 1-2 hits before dies) summon. I honestly cant think of a single situation where it could be useful.. or even fun. Once again if this was changed to be chance to summon on hit (with appropriate cool down) now we are getting somewhere!

Some of the other sigils feel/are underpowered but each of them at least has a build they can work with and some way they can shine. I would also say that having the ability to swap/unlock sigils on weapons (not account/character only on each individual weapon) would greatly increase variety.

Kronos.2560:

I think its a good idea, I have a couple Sigils I would like to add to the list. I wont bother mentioning runes for now. =P

Sigil of luck
oo yay a boon, plus low chance its anything good… or you could just use sigil of restoration and get a guaranteed 500+ hp per kill. If they swapped it to be something like get a boon on hit (with an appropriate cd) then it could be fun.

Sigil of demon summoning
Possibly the worst sigil.. ever? Once use once have to die to charge again, plus it summons a rather worthless (maybe takes 1-2 hits before dies) summon. I honestly cant think of a single situation where it could be useful.. or even fun. Once again if this was changed to be chance to summon on hit (with appropriate cool down) now we are getting somewhere!

Some of the other sigils feel/are underpowered but each of them at least has a build they can work with and some way they can shine. I would also say that having the ability to swap/unlock sigils on weapons (not account/character only on each individual weapon) would greatly increase variety.

The concept of having a Flesh Reaver constantly summoned sounds fun, dies fast but revives quickly. You can only have 1 at a time but keeping it up is not hard.

But you are wrong about the worst Sigils.

Worst sigils are those +10% more damage to X monster.
Why carry something so limiting?

Those need to be changed to like,
Sigil of Ghost Slaying:
10% longer Burning duration
50% chance to cause a Flame Blast on critical hit (cooldown: 9s)

Sigil of Justice
20% Chance on Critical: Remove a Boon
20% Chance to transfer a condition to your foe on critical hit
(Cooldown: 10 Seconds)

Basically, the minor version of the sigils, except 2 effects on one Sigil.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Kronos.2560:

I think its a good idea, I have a couple Sigils I would like to add to the list. I wont bother mentioning runes for now. =P

Sigil of luck
oo yay a boon, plus low chance its anything good… or you could just use sigil of restoration and get a guaranteed 500+ hp per kill. If they swapped it to be something like get a boon on hit (with an appropriate cd) then it could be fun.

Sigil of demon summoning
Possibly the worst sigil.. ever? Once use once have to die to charge again, plus it summons a rather worthless (maybe takes 1-2 hits before dies) summon. I honestly cant think of a single situation where it could be useful.. or even fun. Once again if this was changed to be chance to summon on hit (with appropriate cool down) now we are getting somewhere!

Some of the other sigils feel/are underpowered but each of them at least has a build they can work with and some way they can shine. I would also say that having the ability to swap/unlock sigils on weapons (not account/character only on each individual weapon) would greatly increase variety.

The concept of having a Flesh Reaver constantly summoned sounds fun, dies fast but revives quickly. You can only have 1 at a time but keeping it up is not hard.

But you are wrong about the worst Sigils.

Worst sigils are those +10% more damage to X monster.
Why carry something so limiting?

Those need to be changed to like,
Sigil of Ghost Slaying:
10% longer Burning duration
50% chance to cause a Flame Blast on critical hit (cooldown: 9s)

Sigil of Justice
20% Chance on Critical: Remove a Boon
20% Chance to transfer a condition to your foe on critical hit
(Cooldown: 10 Seconds)

Basically, the minor version of the sigils, except 2 effects on one Sigil.

Was figuring you wouldn’t have the specific type sigil unless fight that monster. But yea that would be way fun, depending on what monster its “effective against” the benefit goes accordingly. Or even if they made it as an example: +5% damage vs ghosts then added a secondary flame blast with 9 second cd. Or +5% damage vs undead and secondary chance quickness on hit (60 second cd.) That way if you primarily fight ghosts or undead or whatever it is you still get benefits but not only against them. Overall that’s a great idea!

Although part of me still thinks that to have variety we need to be able to unlock sigils to some extent. I’m crossing my fingers (and toes) that unlocking and a sigil/rune rework happens in expansion. That would be soo sweet!

Kronos.2560:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Kronos.2560:

I think its a good idea, I have a couple Sigils I would like to add to the list. I wont bother mentioning runes for now. =P

Sigil of luck
oo yay a boon, plus low chance its anything good… or you could just use sigil of restoration and get a guaranteed 500+ hp per kill. If they swapped it to be something like get a boon on hit (with an appropriate cd) then it could be fun.

Sigil of demon summoning
Possibly the worst sigil.. ever? Once use once have to die to charge again, plus it summons a rather worthless (maybe takes 1-2 hits before dies) summon. I honestly cant think of a single situation where it could be useful.. or even fun. Once again if this was changed to be chance to summon on hit (with appropriate cool down) now we are getting somewhere!

Some of the other sigils feel/are underpowered but each of them at least has a build they can work with and some way they can shine. I would also say that having the ability to swap/unlock sigils on weapons (not account/character only on each individual weapon) would greatly increase variety.

The concept of having a Flesh Reaver constantly summoned sounds fun, dies fast but revives quickly. You can only have 1 at a time but keeping it up is not hard.

But you are wrong about the worst Sigils.

Worst sigils are those +10% more damage to X monster.
Why carry something so limiting?

Those need to be changed to like,
Sigil of Ghost Slaying:
10% longer Burning duration
50% chance to cause a Flame Blast on critical hit (cooldown: 9s)

Sigil of Justice
20% Chance on Critical: Remove a Boon
20% Chance to transfer a condition to your foe on critical hit
(Cooldown: 10 Seconds)

Basically, the minor version of the sigils, except 2 effects on one Sigil.

Was figuring you wouldn’t have the specific type sigil unless fight that monster. But yea that would be way fun, depending on what monster its “effective against” the benefit goes accordingly. Or even if they made it as an example: +5% damage vs ghosts then added a secondary flame blast with 9 second cd. Or +5% damage vs undead and secondary chance quickness on hit (60 second cd.) That way if you primarily fight ghosts or undead or whatever it is you still get benefits but not only against them. Overall that’s a great idea!

Although part of me still thinks that to have variety we need to be able to unlock sigils to some extent. I’m crossing my fingers (and toes) that unlocking and a sigil/rune rework happens in expansion. That would be soo sweet!

Swapable rune, sigil and infusion slots would be convenient. But there becomes a problem when things become TOO convenient.

Like the Wardrobe, Mini’s, Mail Carriers, Outfits and Dye system should be accessible only in the bank in my opinion.

However, having Sigils that are only effective against a monster type is completely useless. No one is going to dedicate a Sigil slot on an ascended weapon to dealing more damage to Elementals. Even if it’s only half the benefit of a Sigil, it’s worthless.

Another good fix is removing the ability for Sigils to be tossed into the Mystic Forge, if you desire a certain Sigil, you can only buy or craft it.

I am sure there are plenty of fun things that can be done if we can completely ignore any sort of balance issues …

What balance issue are the proposed ideas breaking?

Nova Stiker.8396:

But you are wrong about the worst Sigils.

Worst sigils are those +10% more damage to X monster.
Why carry something so limiting?

too bad that more people don’t see the beauty in these. It really helps with min/maxing your DPS in dungeons. How do you do that? Option A:

- have multiple same kind of weapons with these slotted in. You’re going to a dungeon of a specific type? Just slot in the weapon that has the sigil!

Option B:

- carry stacks of these and re-slot. Seriously! Each of them are only like a few silver in price. The price and the use of these is pretty much exactly the same as potions. And works wonders in dungeons!

Option C:

- have very specific alts, each dedicated to a specific dungeon. If you’re an altoholic, this is actually a decent use for your toons.

But either way, those sigils are actually good. It’s just that they’re the same as potions – most people won’t bother getting them just to speed up the run a little bit.

Mirta.5029:

Nova Stiker.8396:

But you are wrong about the worst Sigils.

Worst sigils are those +10% more damage to X monster.
Why carry something so limiting?

too bad that more people don’t see the beauty in these. It really helps with min/maxing your DPS in dungeons. How do you do that? Option A:

- have multiple same kind of weapons with these slotted in. You’re going to a dungeon of a specific type? Just slot in the weapon that has the sigil!

Option B:

- carry stacks of these and re-slot. Seriously! Each of them are only like a few silver in price. The price and the use of these is pretty much exactly the same as potions. And works wonders in dungeons!

Option C:

- have very specific alts, each dedicated to a specific dungeon. If you’re an altoholic, this is actually a decent use for your toons.

But either way, those sigils are actually good. It’s just that they’re the same as potions – most people won’t bother getting them just to speed up the run a little bit.

That’s exactly the problem, they make a little difference. I cannot recommend those sigils to anyone, I get my Elementalist and can just plow through all 2 AC paths, 2 TA paths, 2 CoF paths and 1 Arah path in under 2 hours.

None of the bosses last more than 20 seconds. Why hit harder? Why sacrifice a slot so you can achieve a 16 second boss fight?

These Sigils do not work wonders, they are just Mystic Forge fodder. If I save… say, 10 minutes total, big deal, I still have absolutely no use for them in WvW, Aetherpath, Fractals or Silverwastes.

Nova Stiker.8396:

That’s exactly the problem, they make a little difference. I cannot recommend those sigils to anyone, I get my Elementalist and can just plow through all 2 AC paths, 2 TA paths, 2 CoF paths and 1 Arah path in under 2 hours. None of the bosses last more than 20 seconds.

These Sigils do not work wonders, they are just Mystic Forge fodder. If I save… say, 10 minutes total, big deal, I still have absolutely no use for them in WvW, Aetherpath, Fractals or Silverwastes.

that’s why you have a dungeoning weapon that you can slot sigils like crazy and a separate weapon for WvW. Heck some people do that with full gear sets. One set for open world PVE, one set for dungeons, one set for WvW, one set for fractals. Just because one does not see a use in a specific sigil, doesn’t mean that nobody can.

Actually they are good. A 10% damage modifier is always welcome over “+10% Burn Duration and Flame Blast every 10 secs” O.o (seriously?). In a meta dungeon spec, that 10% damage modifier is like adding 25%+ of a Flame Blast’s damage to every single hit.

Also, no, superior runes/sigils can’t be gambled in the forge.

Tman.6349:

Actually they are good. A 10% damage modifier is always welcome over “+10% Burn Duration and Flame Blast every 10 secs” O.o (seriously?). In a meta dungeon spec, that 10% damage modifier is like adding 25%+ of a Flame Blast’s damage to every single hit.

Also, no, superior runes/sigils can’t be gambled in the forge.

-_-

Sigh…

Nonetheless, it was an example to spice up a whole set of boring Sigils.

And no, the +10% more damage to X monsters are absolutely awful.
As I stated before, I have no problems melting bosses in 20 seconds or less with my team.

Even in pug groups I’ve never, ever felt that I needed more damage for any dungeon.
At level 35 my Warrior can deal 20k Hundred Blades, my Elementalist can hit 5k per a hit with his Ice Bow, easily dealing ~100k in a single Ice Storm against Lupicus.

There is just no reason to go more damage.

I have no idea why anyone would defend these Sigils; they’re useless and boring.

Nova Stiker.8396:

There is just no reason to go more damage.

I have no idea why anyone would defend these Sigils; they’re useless and boring.

for the same reason that you defend your suggestion to improve sigils to the point that they think for you, that they decide who to heal, instead of you deciding who to heal. who needs a game when the game plays itself?

Forgotten Legend.9281:

Nova Stiker.8396:

There is just no reason to go more damage.

I have no idea why anyone would defend these Sigils; they’re useless and boring.

for the same reason that you defend your suggestion to improve sigils to the point that they think for you, that they decide who to heal, instead of you deciding who to heal. who needs a game when the game plays itself?

“who needs a game when the game plays itself?”
“defend your suggestion to improve sigils to the point that they think for you”

What the hell are you talking about? Are… Are you high?

Nova Stiker.8396:

One thing a lot of game designers need to keep in mind is

Are you a game designer?
The premise of your argument is fine, but people will most likely choose to not listen to someone who claims to know more then them.

The slaying sigils are way underappreciated…. Detailed explanation:

Slotting slaying sigil with sigil of night (AC,CoF,TA,SE,CoE (explorable)) and food gives you a 1.1*1.1*1.1 modifier= 1.331 or 33.1 % added dps… maybe 10 % is not enough…but adding 33 % for all party members would lower fighting times also with 33 % AND giving you 10% reduced dmg from the potion. also the sigils are way cheaper then bloodlust and fire, and do not pull stuff due to aoe proccing… The bonusses re never lost, so if you go down and rally/ressed you still have 33.1 % added dmg. Understand these multipliers work on top of the multipliers in your build!

For an elementalist this is + 10 % fire,+ 10 % from scholar + 10 % from water, + 10 % within 600 range,+ 10 % when above 90% health from traits for a total of 214 % of base dmg… (6/2/2/2/2)…. Which is still not significant or is it?

Compared to no sigils on build or non modifying ones which would leave you wih 161 % which makes the food and the 2 sigils have an added effect on this ele’s build of 53 % (when in fire and above health treshold…) If you see these numbers something should change in your evalaution as well, and maybe you’ll protect your ele’s better as below 90% health they lose a lot of modifier…

If you look at guardian, they can have way more multipliers with a good build…so these sigils have way more value then you can imagine… most builds can stack up a lot of modifiers

Of course the inevitable , “but that will only work for night dungeons will appear”, to cure this:
Slot a sigil of force on a second weapon (CM,HotW,CoE story,Arah, world) and use it as base youll get 27.05 % dmg other modifiers still apply but you’ll reach about 204 % with the same ele build… ( undead slaying and force is very nice in the whole of Orr as well.)

This increase leaves food to your own choice, as well as armor weapon stats and build, and yes, it means you’ll be carrying a couple of main weapons, and for offhand I normally use a night+ stacking or a force + stacking… to maximize stuff

I agree there are a lot of sigils completely useless but the slaying sigils have use, maybe the elemental slaying doesn’t atm, butt who knows what dungeons will appear in HoT….

IMHO sigils with uses:
Fixed bonus, stacking bonus, some effects on crit are very nice, slaying sigils are nice, leaving only a few whcih are pure MF garbage.

Even benvolence has a synergy with some niche builds… But I would be tempted to slot renewal and life as alternatives for benevolence and water

Zealot build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAWnMISLD20AWPAdEGADwIPCeBfQRBgyDhbQPA-TByDABM8AAea/BAuAAcpEsTdAfq+jomfAV5nAgYA-e

Clerics build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAWnMISLD20AWPAdEGADwIPCeBfQRBgyHhbQPA-TxxDABM8AAIUJYlq/80+DXp8DgLAAe6AEAED-e

Though not a DPS build, I can guarantee this heals very nicely, though the healing numbers to allies are way off, as the + 10 % from monk, + 25 % from aquatic benvolence and the potential + 12.5 % from benevolence will add nice to the possible 10 % to allies and 100 healing of the 60c delicious riceballs for a 70 % increase in allied healing…. btw which is not calculated in the calculator, and end up to a 1220/1300+ healing per auto hit on lvl 80, on allies, you yourself will need to accept only 720/780 healing/hit though, which still allows enormous amounts of healing… this is not counting the soothing mist (when in water), water blast (using 2 arcane skills), geyser, healing ripple (on swap to water, very practival on rushing, combined with doge it will also remove condiutions, cleansing wave (on dodge) and healing rain… nor your ice elemental… which is a okay result for a healer/support build IMHO, this build is also usable on a Celestial build, though you’ll have a little less healing power. the numbers seem to vary only slightly, but in survivability you’ll see clear differences, with the zealot mainitaining reasoanble dps and clerics and zealots following, and clerics being quite durable, and clestial having the biggest virtual HP,

SO as over the top min-maxing is normal and in some area’s expected in this game , sigils add to this in nearly all fields of play…adding to interesting builds adding a lot.

And I’m thinking way beyond zerk meta, cause the game is way bigger.

Nova Stiker.8396:

I have no idea why anyone would defend these Sigils; they’re useless and boring.

boring yes, but VERY useful. Good thing that you don’t want to do more damage. Following that logic, we don’t need zerker gear either, because a person in PVT doesn’t want more damage.
If you’re not a min maxer, then that’s fine, but don’t mess with people that do get their enjoyment out of min maxing.

The issue with Sigils is that it mimics the meta. Staleness + offense>>>defense or utility.

It’s the reason that all the high-priced (aka most desired) auctioned sigils are either direct damage buffing or just direct damage (excluding the specific mob specific minus Undead).

IMO, Sigils should be unique effects that have influence (even if minor) in combat behavior since Orbs already cover the offensive stats necessary to customize directly but Sigils just do it better.

To be honest, what I’d want to see is more of Sigil of Frailty or Sigil of Ice like Sigils to actually just periodically add the specific condition to the attack on hit. And/or a boon duration (up to +25%) stacking Sigil.

That and Sigil of Generosity added to a mystic forge recipe and/or rarely through the mystic forge somehow.

Artaz.3819:

The issue with Sigils is that it mimics the meta. Staleness + offense>>>defense or utility.

It’s the reason that all the high-priced (aka most desired) auctioned sigils are either direct damage buffing or just direct damage (excluding the specific mob specific minus Undead).

IMO, Sigils should be unique effects that have influence (even if minor) in combat behavior since Orbs already cover the offensive stats necessary to customize directly but Sigils just do it better.

To be honest, what I’d want to see is more of Sigil of Frailty or Sigil of Ice like Sigils to actually just periodically add the specific condition to the attack on hit. And/or a boon duration (up to +25%) stacking Sigil.

That and Sigil of Generosity added to a mystic forge recipe and/or rarely through the mystic forge somehow.

Orbs just give stat boosts. nothing more.

For conditions you have:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil

On crit:

1. Sigil of Blight
   60% Chance on Critical: Area Poison Attack (2 Seconds, 240 radius) (cd: 8 Seconds)
2. Sigil of Earth
   30% / 45% / 60% chance to inflict Bleeding for 3s / 4s / 5s on critical hit (cd: 2s)
3. Sigil of Incapacitation 60% chance to inflict crippled for 2 seconds on critical hit (cd: 5s)
4. Sigil of Nullification 60% chance to remove a boon on critical hit (cd: 10s)
5. Sigil of Rage 50% chance to gain Quickness for 3 seconds on critical hit (cd: 30s)
6. Sigil of Torment 50% chance to inflict AoE Torment for 5s on critical hit (cooldown: 5s)
7. Sigil of Generosity 20% / 40% / 60% chance to transfer a condition to your foe on critical hit (cooldown: 10s)

On Weapon swap:

1. Sigil of Doom Inflict Poison for 2s / 4s / 6s on your next attack
2. Sigil of Geomancy Inflict Bleeding on nearby foes for 3s / 5s / 7s
3. Sigil of Hydromancy Damage nearby foes and inflict Chilled for 1s / 1.5s / 2s

Duration sigils:

1. Sigil of Malice + 5% / 7% / 10% Condition Duration
2. Sigil of Agony + 10% / 15% / 20% longer Bleeding duration
3. Sigil of Chilling + 10% / 15% / 20% longer Chilled duration
4. Sigil of Debility + 10% / 15% / 20% longer Weakness duration
5. Sigil of Hobbling + 10% / 15% / 20% longer Crippled duration
6. Sigil of Paralyzation + 10% / 20% / 30% longer Stun duration
7. Sigil of Peril + 10% / 15% / 20% longer Vulnerability duration
8. Sigil of Smoldering + 10% / 15% / 20% longer Burning duration
9. Sigil of Venom + 10% / 15% / 20% longer Poison duration

Stat buffers:
Stacking:

1. Sigil of Corruption + 5 / 7 / 10 Condition Damage per stack

Permanent:

1. Sigil of Bursting + 4% / 5% / 6% Condition Damage

And I agree with the Sigil of Generosity. it would be nice if the recipe’s could be bought once more.

Boon Duration buff does exist, but is way underpowered though applcable on weapon/armor/trinkets

1. Copper Doubloon 1% Boon duration
2. Silver Dubloon 2% Boon duration
3. Gold Dubloon 3% Boon duration
4. Platinum Dubloon 4% Boon duration
   https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Doubloon

If you think it is all boring why don’t you dig deeper… I think I showed some good examples.