Guild Wars 2

Currently, if you take armor with zerker stats (power + precision + ferocity) you are doing max power damage. If you take condition damage and expertise, you are doing damage on par with zerker stats (maybe more considering current food options). This allows condi users to take other beneficial stats like vitality or toughness, which makes them overall better, instead of needing precision or ferocity like power builds.

solution:
Lower the overall tick damage of conditions (bleeds, burning, poison). Allow condition ticks to critically hit. Allow those critical hits to be affected by precision (% chance of it to occur) and ferocity (how much the crit is amplified).

make a new armor set which does (condition primary, precision, ferocity)

Balance it so that a person wearing full zerker armor (power, Precision, ferocity) outputs the same amount of dps as the new armor set (condition damage, precision, ferocity).

Have condition duration (expertise) only affect impairing effects or debuffs (ie freeze duration, crippled duration, stun duration), but not damage over time (poison, bleed, burning). Increase base duration of all damage over time conditions to a set amount so it is comparable to the dps of a full zerker build.

Then balance food for condition and power users so they are roughly the same.

Having just condi stat and expertise does not give you damage parity with a full berseker’s power build.
Condi builds still do 20% to 40% of their damage in power. Also most condi builds have on-crit traits making precision necessary.

For a condi build to get damage parity with berserker’s they need to have viper’s, which is a fully offensive stat allocation.

Crinn.7864:

Having just condi stat and expertise does not give you damage parity with a full berseker’s power build.
Condi builds still do 20% to 40% of their damage in power. Also most condi builds have on-crit traits making precision necessary.

For a condi build to get damage parity with berserker’s they need to have viper’s, which is a fully offensive stat allocation.

This is correct when you are looking at PvE and its insane 30K+ dps specs, but in WvW this all changes and balance is thrown out the window. You only need 2K dps to kill an average player in 5 to 10 seconds – the rest is just sustain. And thats when condi goes to extremes because condi builds doesnt need anything other than condi dmg to achieve such paltry figures, in fact it goes far beyond it. Even classes relying on precision like the engineer dont really need it to perform.

Does this mean that, since a power build might be able to do 12k damage in the first second or so of an engagement, a condi build, no longer designed to have increased sustain to offset doing its damage over time, would need to be able to do 12k in one second, with no ramp up time, as well? Zero to 10k or more in one second, the very first second, or less, as is possible with power builds?

It seems as if, since condi in the proposed system uses stats mirroring berzerker, the alpha strike potential of condi would have to be equal to that of power otherwise power’s ability to one shot, negating potential counterattack would be inherently superior to condi, which normally requires some amount of ramp up a d does its damage over time.

If condi does 10k damage or more in the first second of the fight, how much is the damage over time aspect?

Copied from another conditions thread…

This game just bleeds poison. And the confusion it causes sets the community on fire, But I guess it’s just the weakness of our builds that causes this vulnerability. And I am stunned by the immobilisation of the builds which does give me the chills… You all cripple and torment yourself. Instead of building up some resistance in this game and clean your own game. That could whirl some light into these posts.

My opinion about conditions:

In WvW i rarely die from conditions cause the zerg will have enough, no more then enough cleansing opportunities…

Fighting PvP or roamer vs roamer however is different. and yes condi builds are extremely potent…. then again I’d use condi builds versus the 3k and almost 4k armor builds… cause the bunkers tend to be imperveous to a guy swinging his GS in many cases… sometimes just running on and ignoring the roamer completely…
(Trust me my minstrel ele with diamond skin is imperveous, I sometimes stop and wave then run on again. Unless I get to eat a huge poison spam I will not go down…)

In WVW the most damaging conditons are poison, confusion and torment cause they prevent healing, skill activation and running (away)
These 3 conditionsare known as shutdown conditions and being affected by all 3 will kill you, unless you can deal with it…..

Burning and bleeding? Honestly it is no real problem… a longbow warrior will not kill you easily… the immobiulze can be dangerous, but the rest oof the conditions will be trivial.

And like the small block of text at start you can use resistance, light and whirl, cleanses, (and food/rune combo’s).

I stilll use sweet bean buns in lvl 80+ fractals to remove pressure and to defend myself.

It’s my expectation the next expansion will be about more conditions in PvE and the need to clean.

Add a new stat mainly to reduce condi damage on you,similair to toughness vs power.
I dont see them ever nerfing condi damage across all classes.

Caedmon.6798:

Add a new stat mainly to reduce condi damage on you,similair to toughness vs power.
I dont see them ever nerfing condi damage across all classes.

I do not think that’s needed however i think the condi reduction effects of runes and such should be calculated over the final number not subtracted from the duration…

Having a build with 150% condition duration attack you while you have 45% condition duration mitigation makes the dmg 105% duration and it should be 150 *0.55 = 82.5%

this would fix condition duration and mitigation instantly. I ’d suggest max mitigation would be 50% however.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Caedmon.6798:

Add a new stat mainly to reduce condi damage on you,similair to toughness vs power.
I dont see them ever nerfing condi damage across all classes.

I do not think that’s needed however i think the condi reduction effects of runes and such should be calculated over the final number not subtracted from the duration…

Having a build with 150% condition duration attack you while you have 45% condition duration mitigation makes the dmg 105% duration and it should be 150 *0.55 = 82.5%

this would fix condition duration and mitigation instantly. I ’d suggest max mitigation would be 50% however.

The issue isnt condi duration,its condi Damage.

Caedmon.6798:

Add a new stat mainly to reduce condi damage on you,similair to toughness vs power.
I dont see them ever nerfing condi damage across all classes.

you mean vitality?

The problem with condition damage has always been, that it completely ignores all defense

Anet has to remove the Resistance Boon (that would be also good to work against effect spam, this game has too much boons and conditions than is good for GW2) and rework the Resistance Boon into a Resistance System similar to what GW1 had, just with the difference now, that this time we don#t have resistances for like a hand full of different damage types, but this time instead we should have Resistances towards each individual condition.

Thats a classical rpg element system that is completely missing in this game since begin which owuld massively help to rebalance all conditions and make them also stronger individually part of each characters build!!

If I could get in this game for my character for example 50% Poison Resistance through the help of Food Buffs, my Gear, my Traits, my Skills, then should my Character receive in that time while I have this 50% Poison resistance 50% lesser Damage from Poison Ticks and Poison should last 50% lesser.

This way would we get finally something, into GW2, that is very important for class balancing – its called STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES.

Especially once Condition Removals get reworked so, that they can only remove very specific conditions and not generally everything.
That way would make it possible to reduce the spam frequence of condition skills, because when it becomes harder to remove conditions, then it is also not nessecarry to spam them non stop all the tiem just to ensure that your enemy suffers on the conditions you want… and in the end we all now, that still condition removals can keep up with the condition spam due to their too long recharge times.

So why keep tham as spam mechanic, when removal skills will never anyways catch up with the frequency of the condition spam??

Merge with this reformat of the system then also unneccessary boons and conditions together to reduce their total amount and make those boons and conditions that stay more impactful to the combat system and these both changes will naturally lead to an easier balance of the whole combat system and condition damage.

Condition Damage is out of control, because there exist no ways for the player to reduce the damage that you take, other than using tons of condition removals and removal mechanics through traits ect by which you massively cripple down your own DPS but improve your survivability, or by using buff food that reduces condition durations – by using that you indirectly reduce the condition damage that you potentially can take.

What the game needs is a way with that players can directly active reduce condition damage through getting more resistance towards that specific condition and reducing its effectiveness to ignore your armor.

So by having 50% Poison Resistance would that mechanic basically half the effectiveness from Poison to ignore my Armor from 100% to 50% so that I receive directly only half as much damage from the poison ticks and that as long as the Poison Resistance is active and not completely blocking all the Poison off like the Resistance Boon does it, which makes the Boon compared to such a resistance system overpowered.

Because under my system wouldn#t condition build usesers compeltely be shut off in the moment your enemy increases his resistance agaisnt conditions, youd still be able to deal conditinos and damage, but in that moment just significantly lesser based on how powerful the resistance of your enemy is towards the specific conditions.

Orpheal.8263:

The problem with condition damage has always been, that it completely ignores all defense

Anet has to remove the Resistance Boon (that would be also good to work against effect spam, this game has too much boons and conditions than is good for GW2) and rework the Resistance Boon into a Resistance System similar to what GW1 had, just with the difference now, that this time we don#t have resistances for like a hand full of different damage types, but this time instead we should have Resistances towards each individual condition.

Thats a classical rpg element system that is completely missing in this game since begin which owuld massively help to rebalance all conditions and make them also stronger individually part of each characters build!!

If I could get in this game for my character for example 50% Poison Resistance through the help of Food Buffs, my Gear, my Traits, my Skills, then should my Character receive in that time while I have this 50% Poison resistance 50% lesser Damage from Poison Ticks and Poison should last 50% lesser.

This way would we get finally something, into GW2, that is very important for class balancing – its called STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES.

Especially once Condition Removals get reworked so, that they can only remove very specific conditions and not generally everything.
That way would make it possible to reduce the spam frequence of condition skills, because when it becomes harder to remove conditions, then it is also not nessecarry to spam them non stop all the tiem just to ensure that your enemy suffers on the conditions you want… and in the end we all now, that still condition removals can keep up with the condition spam due to their too long recharge times.

So why keep tham as spam mechanic, when removal skills will never anyways catch up with the frequency of the condition spam??

Merge with this reformat of the system then also unneccessary boons and conditions together to reduce their total amount and make those boons and conditions that stay more impactful to the combat system and these both changes will naturally lead to an easier balance of the whole combat system and condition damage.

Condition Damage is out of control, because there exist no ways for the player to reduce the damage that you take, other than using tons of condition removals and removal mechanics through traits ect by which you massively cripple down your own DPS but improve your survivability, or by using buff food that reduces condition durations – by using that you indirectly reduce the condition damage that you potentially can take.

What the game needs is a way with that players can directly active reduce condition damage through getting more resistance towards that specific condition and reducing its effectiveness to ignore your armor.

So by having 50% Poison Resistance would that mechanic basically half the effectiveness from Poison to ignore my Armor from 100% to 50% so that I receive directly only half as much damage from the poison ticks and that as long as the Poison Resistance is active and not completely blocking all the Poison off like the Resistance Boon does it, which makes the Boon compared to such a resistance system overpowered.

Because under my system wouldn#t condition build usesers compeltely be shut off in the moment your enemy increases his resistance agaisnt conditions, youd still be able to deal conditinos and damage, but in that moment just significantly lesser based on how powerful the resistance of your enemy is towards the specific conditions.

Ah so then protection should first cut out 33% of the power from the player hitting you then cut 33% of the damage from the hit aswell then?

Going by your dubble nerf to poison in both damage and duration.

Actually, Condi damage is not on par with prec damage because there is a lack of crit in condi damage.

Had there been actual balance concerning condition damage it would have to have a crit that doubles and quadruples the damage of the ticks when they crit. It doesn’t do that sadly.

Secondly they stated that making a burst character with no other skills or stats that help with personal defense is not the design motivation which is why they changed to fierocity. So if you are a player who thinks glass cannons shouldn’t be made of glass then you aren’t playing the game as intended.

seriously, they finally made condi damage better and now you want to worsen it again?
let’s destroy zerger builds, let’s see how you feel about that.

On paper, DoTs (Damage over Time) are very easy to balance versus DDs (Direct Damage):

• A DD-centric character deals superior DPS. That is, damage-per-second. If they attack you for 20 seconds they’ll do more damage to you than a DoT-centric character does in 20 seconds, all other things being equal.
• A DoT-centric character deals superior DPC. Damage-per-casttime. That is, if a DoT-centric character attacks you with 5 skills, then you wait for all damage to tick out, they’ll have done more damage to you than a DD character with 5 attacks.

So in other words, a DoT-attacker will do less DPS, but on the plusside doesn’t have to attack all the time. And as the DD character loses the ability to stay on target, the DoT character will pull ahead. Ofc, if they can stay on target, they’ll win out because of higher total DPS.

The true problem is the fact that power/precision/ferocity all start at 1000 and condi/expertise start at 0. All skills in the game have a percent modifier attached to them (a skills with a 0.2 damage modifier does 200 damage with base power, but 400 damage with +1000 power from gear) for power, meanwhile conditions have a base amount and scale differently based on gear. Bleeding scales from 22 to 82 with 1000 condi meanwhile burning scales 131 to 286 with 1000. The difference is +272% compared to 118%. This brings up problems of certain classes scaling like crap with condi (and by certain classes, it really is just Guardian), meanwhile others scale way better.

A better way to fix condi would be to make all condition not have a base value and scale off condition damage entirely. So if bleeding had a scaling of 0.04 it would do 40 a tick with no condi damage and 80 at +1000 condi damage which is the same that power scales. Than you could have expertise work the same, so if a skill that currently last 5s would than have a scaling factor of 0.005 so if you stacked expertise to +1000 you’d have 10s. You could than let it go over the cap of 100% since all stats help equally per point.

Caedmon.6798:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Caedmon.6798:

Add a new stat mainly to reduce condi damage on you,similair to toughness vs power.
I dont see them ever nerfing condi damage across all classes.

I do not think that’s needed however i think the condi reduction effects of runes and such should be calculated over the final number not subtracted from the duration…

Having a build with 150% condition duration attack you while you have 45% condition duration mitigation makes the dmg 105% duration and it should be 150 *0.55 = 82.5%

this would fix condition duration and mitigation instantly. I ’d suggest max mitigation would be 50% however.

The issue isnt condi duration,its condi Damage.

No it’s not condition dmg… Condition dmg is fine.

Stacks would only be half as high with 50% less condition duration….
This would allow up to 50% mitigation instead of the 25% possible now; provided you do not dodge, reflect, cleanse, send ’m back

While still allowing the pressure needed to have condi builds… if you say: “No I do not want to (re-)evaluate the implementation of condition duration”, you’ll have destoyed 50% of the combat system over 50% of armor sets and made a full reinstatement of the berserker Meta.

That’s makes only focussing on condition dmg probably -not- the best solution. In the end condition dmg needs to kill as well. Else it is useless…

Azoqu.8917:

The true problem is the fact that power/precision/ferocity all start at 1000 and condi/expertise start at 0. All skills in the game have a percent modifier attached to them (a skills with a 0.2 damage modifier does 200 damage with base power, but 400 damage with +1000 power from gear) for power, meanwhile conditions have a base amount and scale differently based on gear. Bleeding scales from 22 to 82 with 1000 condi meanwhile burning scales 131 to 286 with 1000. The difference is +272% compared to 118%. This brings up problems of certain classes scaling like crap with condi (and by certain classes, it really is just Guardian), meanwhile others scale way better.

A better way to fix condi would be to make all condition not have a base value and scale off condition damage entirely. So if bleeding had a scaling of 0.04 it would do 40 a tick with no condi damage and 80 at +1000 condi damage which is the same that power scales. Than you could have expertise work the same, so if a skill that currently last 5s would than have a scaling factor of 0.005 so if you stacked expertise to +1000 you’d have 10s. You could than let it go over the cap of 100% since all stats help equally per point.

1st: 1000 condition dmg is a very basic value attainable without speccing in condition dmg at all…

You’re suggesting a nerf in dmg for condi users and a buff for non condi users..
And you suggest a release of the duration cap….

Adding a base condi dmg value (raise base condition dmg from 0 to 1000)
Numbers…

Stats from armor+weapons+trinkets+back:

• condi dmg will be 1381 with major ascneded
• condi dmg will be 961 with minor ascneded
• condi dmg will be 0 if you do not spec for it.
• suggestion adds 1000 to these base values

for dedicated condition builds:

• runes will add 175 points.
• food+utility will add 170 points

for anyone

• might can add 750 points
• banners will add 170 points
• (pinpoint distribution could add another 150)
• (Condition signet 180 (mesmer/guardian))

Unbuffed Non-Condi user will have

• 0 condi dmg,
• 100% duration

Buffed Non-Condi user will have

• 750+170(+150 ) =920 (1070),
• 100% duration

Unbuffed Minor condi user will have

• 961
• 100% duration

Buffed Minor Condi user will have

• 961+750+170(+150)= 1821 (1971),
• 100% duration

Unbuffed Full Condi user will have

• 1381+175+170 (+180) = 1726 (1906)
• 170% condi duraton

Buffed Full Condi user will have

• 1381+175+750+170+ (150(+180))=2476 (2626 (2806))
• 200% duration

These values above are values as they are now,
This doesn’t include traits converting stats to condi dmg, nor runes bonusses doing the same, sigils of bursting and other boosts.

We can now calculate the bleeding dmg for these 6 benchmarks:

Formulae:

• bleed old: 22+ (0.06*condi dmg)
• bleed new: (condi dmg + 1000 )*0.04

(here’s where the 1000 base condi dmg is added, I could make the numbers and add 1000 each time, but i think ths is easier and more comprehensible)

Value Unbuffed Non-Condi
base 0

• bleeding old: 22
• bleeding new: 40
• 81% buff

value Buffed Non-Condi
base: 920 (1070)

• bleeding old 77.2 (86)
• bleeding new 76.2 (82.8)
• 1.3% nerf

value Unbuffed Minor Condi
961 base

• bleeding old: 79.7
• bleeding new: 78.4
• 1.7% nerf

Value Buffed Minor Condi:
1821 (1971)

• bleeding old: 131.3 (140.3)
• bleeding new: 112.8 (118.8)
• 14.5% nerf

value Unbuffed Full Condi
1726 (1906)

• bleeding old: 125.6 (136.4)
• bleeding new: 109 (116.2)
• 13.3% nerf base value

value Buffed Full Condi
2476 (2626) (2806)

• bleeding old: 170.6 (179.6) (190.36)
• bleeding new: 139 (145) (152.2)
• 19-21% nerf base value

Opinion
Having pure condi builds nerfed by 20% will make ‘m unviable in any area’s of the game with further mitigation through cleanses (sigil of genrosity, purity, cleanses, shout cleansing, lightfields and combo’s, duration removal and resistance and invulnerability)
This does not even include reflects, sending to pets/minions/clones and dodging.

Additional Duration
As for duration, max duration can be achieved by mesmer. the +20% duration signet will allow builds to get 217% duration (provided you want max duration on all conditions…. but I doubt this will fully compensate all other 8 proffesions’ nerf.

If you look at 1 specific conditions this wil happen:
for example burning on warrior:
burning modifer :
33% from trait
45% from rune
20% from sigil of smoldering
10% from malice
30% from food/utility
42.2% from expertise
————— +
180.2% added burning duration!

This is a 40% buff to a burning warriors burning!

But if dmg output would be nerfed by ~20% it would likely only compensate the loss from the change.

Considering the bleeds with this set would be 102%…. I do not think this would help in mitigating condition dmg. It would however work in reducing pressure to 80% while retaining dmg in the full duration of the buring skills effects, bleeding would lose 20% DOT dmg.

So in the end:

• You’d see part of the present builds gutted, mostly cause you can no longer focus on ALL TYPES of condition dmg.
• This doesn’t matter for elementalists , warriors and guardians who focus on 1 or 2 types, but would destroy a lot of potential in condition buils on:
  Thieves, mesmers, necro’s, engineers, revs and condi rangers.
• Most builds would lose 10-15% condition dmg.
• Duration would become a bigger factor in teh final output.
• Condition dmg as a stat would be less effective:

• Non condition users when buffed STILL have decent (unchanged) condition dmg…
• Non condition users when NOT buffed will have significant more use from their conditions.

Honestly if I had to rebalance conditions, it’d be a very big undertaking because I’d want to tackle the root cause: the lack of identity of DoTs compared to DDs in GW2, and as a result, the lack of use to build class/spec identity.

Key points:

• Reduce spammability of conditions.
• Massively increase impact and reduce availability of cleansing in turn (in other words if you counter it it’s not coming back soon but if you don’t, it hurts significantly, but it’s a single stack only unless multiple players are attacking you).
• DoTs do low DPS compared to power damage, but given their cast-times, do very high total damage if left to “tick out”.
• Each class is assigned 1-3 identities they can spec for. For example, maybe a Warrior flat out cannot go DoT-centric, being such a power fantasy and usually shown running in with two 2H-swords raised high. They might do DoT damage, but it’d scale off of their power and be supplementary only. Other classes might always be majorly based on condition damage as their output, even when speccing for more direct damage. (basically shifting from 15% to 50% power damage).
• Conditions scale off of power. No more separate stat.
• No more Expertise. If you want your DoTs to last longer you have specific per-class traits for that. DoTs really ought to be balanced baseline, which means things making you do more damage just affect DoTs.

I can say personally as a returning player I have found quite a few things annoying and this topic is one of them.

The PvP is condition spam, I find this type of play style horrible and passive while other play styles like berserker which take far more calculated effort are harmed.

Mystic Forge, you throw in 4 level 80 exotics and get back level 75-78 exotics 1/2 of the time which might explain why I only got two precursors from maybe 500 forges of exotics. I recall it being far better in the past and fun to gamble when you didn’t go broke doing it.

Step it up Anet… step it up.

Osi.3504:

The PvP is condition spam, I find this type of play style horrible and passive while other play styles like berserker which take far more calculated effort are harmed.

How so? You spam damaging abilities either way, berserker does the damage upfront, conditions take X seconds to do it. Can be blocked / dodged just the same.

Carighan.6758:

Honestly if I had to rebalance conditions, it’d be a very big undertaking because I’d want to tackle the root cause: the lack of identity of DoTs compared to DDs in GW2, and as a result, the lack of use to build class/spec identity.

Key points:

• Reduce spammability of conditions.
• Massively increase impact and reduce availability of cleansing in turn (in other words if you counter it it’s not coming back soon but if you don’t, it hurts significantly, but it’s a single stack only unless multiple players are attacking you).
• DoTs do low DPS compared to power damage, but given their cast-times, do very high total damage if left to “tick out”.
• Each class is assigned 1-3 identities they can spec for. For example, maybe a Warrior flat out cannot go DoT-centric, being such a power fantasy and usually shown running in with two 2H-swords raised high. They might do DoT damage, but it’d scale off of their power and be supplementary only. Other classes might always be majorly based on condition damage as their output, even when speccing for more direct damage. (basically shifting from 15% to 50% power damage).
• Conditions scale off of power. No more separate stat.
• No more Expertise. If you want your DoTs to last longer you have specific per-class traits for that. DoTs really ought to be balanced baseline, which means things making you do more damage just affect DoTs.

• “Reduce spammability of conditions…”

Just apply 1 stack and see how they die?
How would this be better? Would not be very interesting

• “Reduce cleansing…”

If you get hit you die 100%?
How would this be better? I can apply it and hide somewhere while you die. Or I can hit you and you can rmove it and I need to wait a long time until I could apply it again, not counting dodges and such

• “DoTs do low DPS compared to power damage, but given their cast-times, do very high total damage if left to “tick out”."

DoT’s already good okay DPS… So I doubt we need to make ’m stronger still
Bonfire does about 15k dmg if you stand in it for the full time and do nothing.
20 seconds lasting bleeds tha same..

• No more expertise? And Power scaling as well? "

It will make any build a condition build and the condition no more then an extension of the power dmg.

You are suggesting ro remove condition dmg and give everyone a condition which will 100% kill ppl when hit , is unremovable and has a finite kill time. While making all builds DPS builds…

Osi.3504:

I can say personally as a returning player I have found quite a few things annoying and this topic is one of them.

The PvP is condition spam, I find this type of play style horrible and passive while other play styles like berserker which take far more calculated effort are harmed.

Condition spamming is more then just autoing… A good condition spam will ask more then just standing there and facerolling the KB

Off-Topic:

Mystic Forge, you throw in 4 level 80 exotics and get back level 75-78 exotics 1/2 of the time which might explain why I only got two precursors from maybe 500 forges of exotics. I recall it being far better in the past and fun to gamble when you didn’t go broke doing it.

You have 25% chance to get something better so I’d suggest you thorw in rare’s next time

Step it up Anet… step it up.

Well… They have, and if you have not seen this you are not willing to look beyond the errors of past times.

Builds are more balanced, no not perfect, We have had 5 new maps in the pasty 5 ls parts, we have a decent story, improved WvW, improved PvP and a lot of content has been added since HoT launched. The QoL has been significant. we had some nice content also apart from LS.

I think they are doing good, any improvements on good are allways welcome, but it’s not if A-net is sagging or slacking.

The problem with condi is just that over time it has become more and more like power to the point that we are in the current situation where it has already overtaken it. There is no point in having multiple damage types if you make them function the same.

As far as I am concerned conditions should have been about applying pressure and winning through attrition. Condition build would need to interrupt their opponents’ cleanse and burst. Power would need to ensure that they can land their bursts and cleanses. That gives them distinct play styles and different requirements for their tool set. Of course this only applies to WvW and PvP …

For PvE we would need better AI. We would need enemies that heal to make poison’s secondary effect relevant. We need less stationary enemies for torment to do its job. The closer the AI gets to players’ behavior the easier it becomes to balance the skills.

Instead we got some kind of arms race going on where condi applies more and more condi and condi removal skills remove more and more condis at once and we get condi and boons flipping back and forth. It seems we are rushing forward without looking back at all and asking “what was the purpose of these things originally?”

Right now we are in a good balance. Power is going to win in the short run and condi is going to win in the long haul. In a WvW/PvP sense condi is easy to counter via clears and vitality, power is easier by keeping distance and CC. You are going to have mis-matches on both sides if one player is spec’d in the counter to the other, that’s in a power or condi build. The difference is condi builds had to plan to be hit multiple times in the past and power build are just now having to do the same planning. In the long term the balance should remain, power = more burst shorter time, condi more damage over time.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

---

1st: 1000 condition dmg is a very basic value attainable without speccing in condition dmg at all…

---

You’re suggesting a nerf in dmg for condi users and a buff for non condi users..
And you suggest a release of the duration cap….

Adding a base condi dmg value (raise base condition dmg from 0 to 1000)
Numbers…

---

Stats from armor+weapons+trinkets+back:

• condi dmg will be 1381 with major ascneded
• condi dmg will be 961 with minor ascneded
• condi dmg will be 0 if you do not spec for it.
• suggestion adds 1000 to these base values

for dedicated condition builds:

• runes will add 175 points.
• food+utility will add 170 points

for anyone

• might can add 750 points
• banners will add 170 points
• (pinpoint distribution could add another 150)
• (Condition signet 180 (mesmer/guardian))

Unbuffed Non-Condi user will have

• 0 condi dmg,
• 100% duration

Buffed Non-Condi user will have

• 750+170(+150 ) =920 (1070),
• 100% duration

Unbuffed Minor condi user will have

• 961
• 100% duration

Buffed Minor Condi user will have

• 961+750+170(+150)= 1821 (1971),
• 100% duration

Unbuffed Full Condi user will have

• 1381+175+170 (+180) = 1726 (1906)
• 170% condi duraton

Buffed Full Condi user will have

• 1381+175+750+170+ (150(+180))=2476 (2626 (2806))
• 200% duration

These values above are values as they are now,
This doesn’t include traits converting stats to condi dmg, nor runes bonusses doing the same, sigils of bursting and other boosts.

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We can now calculate the bleeding dmg for these 6 benchmarks:

Formulae:

• bleed old: 22+ (0.06*condi dmg)
• bleed new: (condi dmg + 1000 )*0.04

(here’s where the 1000 base condi dmg is added, I could make the numbers and add 1000 each time, but i think ths is easier and more comprehensible)

Value Unbuffed Non-Condi
base 0

• bleeding old: 22
• bleeding new: 40
• 81% buff

value Buffed Non-Condi
base: 920 (1070)

• bleeding old 77.2 (86)
• bleeding new 76.2 (82.8)
• 1.3% nerf

value Unbuffed Minor Condi
961 base

• bleeding old: 79.7
• bleeding new: 78.4
• 1.7% nerf

Value Buffed Minor Condi:
1821 (1971)

• bleeding old: 131.3 (140.3)
• bleeding new: 112.8 (118.8)
• 14.5% nerf

value Unbuffed Full Condi
1726 (1906)

• bleeding old: 125.6 (136.4)
• bleeding new: 109 (116.2)
• 13.3% nerf base value

value Buffed Full Condi
2476 (2626) (2806)

• bleeding old: 170.6 (179.6) (190.36)
• bleeding new: 139 (145) (152.2)
• 19-21% nerf base value

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Opinion
Having pure condi builds nerfed by 20% will make ‘m unviable in any area’s of the game with further mitigation through cleanses (sigil of genrosity, purity, cleanses, shout cleansing, lightfields and combo’s, duration removal and resistance and invulnerability)
This does not even include reflects, sending to pets/minions/clones and dodging.

Additional Duration
As for duration, max duration can be achieved by mesmer. the +20% duration signet will allow builds to get 217% duration (provided you want max duration on all conditions…. but I doubt this will fully compensate all other 8 proffesions’ nerf.

If you look at 1 specific conditions this wil happen:
for example burning on warrior:
burning modifer :
33% from trait
45% from rune
20% from sigil of smoldering
10% from malice
30% from food/utility
42.2% from expertise
————— +
180.2% added burning duration!

This is a 40% buff to a burning warriors burning!

But if dmg output would be nerfed by ~20% it would likely only compensate the loss from the change.

Considering the bleeds with this set would be 102%…. I do not think this would help in mitigating condition dmg. It would however work in reducing pressure to 80% while retaining dmg in the full duration of the buring skills effects, bleeding would lose 20% DOT dmg.

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So in the end:

• You’d see part of the present builds gutted, mostly cause you can no longer focus on ALL TYPES of condition dmg.
• This doesn’t matter for elementalists , warriors and guardians who focus on 1 or 2 types, but would destroy a lot of potential in condition buils on:
  Thieves, mesmers, necro’s, engineers, revs and condi rangers.
• Most builds would lose 10-15% condition dmg.
• Duration would become a bigger factor in teh final output.
• Condition dmg as a stat would be less effective:

• Non condition users when buffed STILL have decent (unchanged) condition dmg…
• Non condition users when NOT buffed will have significant more use from their conditions.

This is complete rubbish.

Attaining 1000 of any stat is not a very basic value, gaining 1000 of a stat requires several pieces with it as a major or even more with it as a minor stat.

Condition damage + Expertise gear is not equivalent in DPS to Power, Precision, Ferocity.

Several factors go into DPS builds, most especially multiple condition stacking ability and the current top PvE DPS condi builds still do a significant amount of damage using Power, in fact they are more hybrid than pure condi.

Power attacks may also deal all their damage up front for instant burst, there is no condition damage capable of an opening burst to match huge attacks like:

Backstab Thief.
Coalescence Revenant.
Shatter Mesmer.
LB / Hammer DH.
D/D Ele.
Rifle / Axe / GS F1 Warrior.

I’ve been insta-downed in WvW quite frequently recently. A thief roamer, steals in and spikes over 19k damage instantly. Instantly, as in, one second I’m standing at a resource camp gathering supply and the next I’m down. At least a condi-build would do that over a number of seconds giving me a chance to cleanse.

The problem here is in the perception of Condition damage. I think that people tend to see the ticks, fixate on those and think “I just cleansed and I already have another 5 bleed stacks, that’s unfair” ignoring the fact that those 5 new bleed stacks were applied by another hit. No-one would (I hope) think “I just healed that power damage and I’ve been hit already again, that’s unfair”.

That’s why I think most of the suggested fixes for the condition damage “problem” won’t work; it simply isn’t a problem.

Caedmon.6798:

Add a new stat mainly to reduce condi damage on you,similair to toughness vs power.
I dont see them ever nerfing condi damage across all classes.

That’s kinda already there; Vitality (of course it also works against power).