Guild Wars 2

Dear Arena Net,

I’m going to write this as an open letter to you to let others chime in about this so I hope you don’t mine. I’d also ask that this thread not be merged hidden or deleted since the intent of this is to find a compromise.

Ok so you felt the game needed to have another level of gear between Exotics and Legendries for players to work on, I’m cool with this under some conditions.

Providing you follow one simple GOLGEN rule. Never take something away from one play style in favor of another, never change things again that takes a feature away or adds a feature that favors one path through your game over another, let me explain.

In GW2 you gave us all a path to the best gear in the game regardless of how we wanted to play the game. You appeared to understand that many players play MMO’s in different ways and the freedom of choice on how we made our way through the game was ours.

You also did not pigeonhole the players into ONE particular path at end game. You told us that at endgame we could just keep doing the things that WE liked to do.
Eric Flannum himself said: “We have a basic philosophy of that we don’t expect you to play a different game at level 80 that you played up to then”. “We don’t think it’s ok that if you didn’t like to do dungeons before max level we don’t expect you to be forced into dungeons at endgame “.

I would like you to stay true to these above core philosophies.

Ok on to making this right with the community!

1) Ensure the community that you are not taking anything away from crafting, before Ascended Gear Crafters could make the most powerful Weapons and Armor in the game, Make sure that is still the case. There is no reason you need to change this for this new level of gear.

2) Ensure the community that there are multiple path to Ascended Armor, Weapons, Infusion and their crafting components outside of Dungeons through the open world events, PvP and WvW content. Many people do not want to play another “Lobby World” game where you stand around for hours trying to find a group or put up with the frustration of someone quitting a group just before the last boss fight at the bottom of a dungeon.

3) Ensure Players that future content patches will not interfere with the FREEDOM of choice the player has on how they chose to play the game at endgame or otherwise and future patches will never take anything away from players that the core game offers now or stray from the original design philosophy we were all sold on.

4) Optional: I highly recommend you put up a public test server. One, it appears your content needs to be stress tested to get the bugs out but this also gives you feedback on new content and how it will be received by the community giving you opportunities to tweak it before you tick off the world.

So, the only thing that’s being asked for here is that player choice be preserved in regards to how they find their path into the best gear the game has to offer and some reassurance that that choice is still present.

This is not asking for much Arena Net, and I’m asking this one for myself but also for a way to calm down the community. Just admit that you did not realize the impact this patch would have on the core player base and make these small concession. No one is asking for you to remove content just restore the games endgame flexibility for all and ensure that flexibility is still there. I can’t see anyone objecting to these terms as it allows all players to just keep playing the game the way they have and eventually they will get the gear they want or need.

In closing I’d just like to add that you need to look at ways of keeping the open world viable and refreshed. Adding fancy dungeon content is great but if it comes at an expense of shifting focus off the open world many of your dynamic events will lose the critical mass of players they need to remain viable.

Adding top end crafting mats for the new top end gear and opportunities for it to drop in top end open world events will help to keep the level 80 zones active. Be mindful of how new content makes the rest of the game play and that it does whisk that critical mass of players away from zones that need strong participation to remain viable.

Thank you for your consideration,
Respectfully
Logun

I would encourage/hope ANet introduces methods to attain this gear via crafting, WvW and the TP before introducing the items for the other slots. Otherwise people are going to feel the need to pigeon hole themselves into running FotM (whether they want to or not), and that’s never good.

Personally I don’t like running dungeons. I don’t really enjoy them, I often don’t have time for them, and quite frankly I’m probably bad at them due to lack of experience. However, I’m more than happy to earn WvW tokens for the same gear, or go and earn the gold/mats somehow to craft it or buy it off the TP. I don’t mind legendaries requiring dungeons; after all they are for the hardcore and dedicated player willing to cover the spectrum of PvE. And they’re cosmetic so fair enough. But Ascended gear is unique and has altered stats.

Adding a daily to sPvP is great to encourage people to go and do that. I would suggest continuing with this philosophy with Ascended gear. Encourage people to diversify and they will be happy.

A) this thread is about to be merged with the other. There’s no point starting new threads.

B) Who cares if they allow crafters to make the gear? Who cares if you can get it in wvw? The biggest problem is that the power plateau was supposed to be incredibly easy to reach, and now it is not. The -only- compromise that would be acceptable is the complete removal of the Agony mechanic (which is content gating and gear treadmill all in one) and if there has to be a new higher tier of gear stats wise, that anyone wearing currently max level gear will have it automatically be upgraded into new max level gear.

To the OP, the developers have already addressed your concern in bullet point 2:

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.”

Spurious D.6173:

A) this thread is about to be merged with the other. There’s no point starting new threads.

B) Who cares if they allow crafters to make the gear? Who cares if you can get it in wvw? The biggest problem is that the power plateau was supposed to be incredibly easy to reach, and now it is not. The -only- compromise that would be acceptable is the complete removal of the Agony mechanic (which is content gating and gear treadmill all in one) and if there has to be a new higher tier of gear stats wise, that anyone wearing currently max level gear will have it automatically be upgraded into new max level gear.

So much this.

Spurious D.6173:

A) this thread is about to be merged with the other. There’s no point starting new threads.

B) Who cares if they allow crafters to make the gear? Who cares if you can get it in wvw? The biggest problem is that the power plateau was supposed to be incredibly easy to reach, and now it is not. The -only- compromise that would be acceptable is the complete removal of the Agony mechanic (which is content gating and gear treadmill all in one) and if there has to be a new higher tier of gear stats wise, that anyone wearing currently max level gear will have it automatically be upgraded into new max level gear.

I’m trying to be empathetic to all players. I can see why some players want something more to work towards. I also don’t like the potential Pandora’s box of gear progression grind it opens up.

But what concerns me the most is the narrowing of options on how player obtain the best gear in the game and the potential devaluating of open world content in favor of these all day sucker dungeons.

Note; A Dev post on Reddit earlier this week implied that Ascended gear was not planned to be added to crafting professions, and I for one am not happy about that.
Also note that the Agony mechanic does not gate you from content in the traditional sense. It only comes into play on mutable runs of the dungeon so you can still see the content and not worry about agony unless you plan on grinding it over and over.

Since you don’t like grinding that shouldn’t be a factor and should you ever want to get more serious about the content provided that you can acquire the Ascended Armor and infusion from other means you’ll just be working your way into the set by doing and playing the game the way you are playing it now.

I just don’t like that this has the potential of the Ascended gear becoming this games new Raid sets and pigeonholing players into one type of content to obtain it.

If it becomes that then … yes, if you’re not running dungeons over and over and over you could fall behind, however if you can obtain the gear through crafting, Karma, or dungeons as you do now with Exotics then everyone should find it reasonable to play their way into it.

At some point well after every “chosen ones” have them. So unless you grind your dungeon you cant do the content. After 3-4 new dungeons are released – gear gap- the old gear (1st dungeon) will finally be made available to others who dont grind.
That way the most dedicated players always have an advantage over everyone else perpetually. This is about gear not skill. kitten and LEETNESS.
That is how it is and how it will be. You accept this and play on or dont and leave.
Anet doesnt care at all or the would have responded and frankly why would they.
You arent the people they want they even said so in the blog post.
Sorry but that is how I see it.
I am done fighting for a game when the Devs dont want me to be in it. It is clearly obvious that I am not who they want to play to game.

Gilandred.9870:

To the OP, the developers have already addressed your concern in bullet point 2:

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.”

Thanks Gilandred, I saw that, I hope however we could get a little more from Arena Net on this and they could expand on that statement. There’s a little too much fear and uncertainty for just that to calm the masses.

And I would like to also find out decisively what the plans are for crafters.

No and No. If you compromise, you are still letting them get away with false advertising (a legal term no doubt hint hint). If you let them get away with false advertising, next thing you know you will be logging into Pandas, arenas for PVE players where you can only get the best PVP gear, etc

Logun.2349:

And I would like to also find out decisively what the plans are for crafters.

The ascended backslot item is craftable. It’s an assumption on my part, but this seems to indicate that crafters will not be left behind.

John Lucier.5486:

No and No. If you compromise, you are still letting them get away with false advertising (a legal term no doubt hint hint). If you let them get away with false advertising, next thing you know you will be logging into Pandas, arenas for PVE players where you can only get the best PVP gear, etc

Wasn’t false advertising. They said they wouldn’t create a gear treadmill adding a in between gear does not constitute a gear tread mill.

Now if in 3 months they add another tier then you can be mad. But till then they haven’t done anything wrong at all.

Namu.5712:

John Lucier.5486:

No and No. If you compromise, you are still letting them get away with false advertising (a legal term no doubt hint hint). If you let them get away with false advertising, next thing you know you will be logging into Pandas, arenas for PVE players where you can only get the best PVP gear, etc

Wasn’t false advertising. They said they wouldn’t create a gear treadmill adding a in between gear does not constitute a gear tread mill.

Now if in 3 months they add another tier then you can be mad. But till then they haven’t done anything wrong at all.

Incorrect, It is a gear treadmill and it has been proven. There is no arguing that. The gear treadmill is started by first obtaining the ascended gear, then the climb gets steeper and steeper constantly having to get new infusions. False Advertising

I’m with Spurious on this one. Compromise is the source of the current problem, i.e., the stated design philosophy has been compromised for unknown reasons. It is quite jarring to read or listen to Anet devs on the horrors of a gear treadmill and then see one introduced within less than 3 months of launch. I’d prefer they adhere to their stated design principles rather than offering differing paths on the same treadmill .

Oh and you don’t pay for a service, you bought a product. A service is something on going that you pay for on a consitant basis (ie monthly sub fee).

You bought the game one time fee. You played it for 3 months, defiantly got your 60 dollars worth. If you don’t like the changes they make in the future they are not entitled to refund you or anything. If this had happened a year from now it would be the same thing. You think you are entitled to something? hell no your not.

False advertising would have been them saying the game was one thing then on release day you realize its nothing like they said it was that would be a legit violation. But calling foul as they add things months after launch because they have to try to meet the needs of ALL their players is just plain foolish and selfish. You enjoyed the game for the past 3 months and they have worked hard on maintaining servers, patches etc etc, you don’t think they deserve to be paid for that work while you were enjoying the game up until the patch? Get over yourself.

Namu.5712:

… they have to try to meet the needs of ALL their players …

To say it in your own words

Namu.5712:

Get over yourself.

Changing fundamental game design after advertising is Bad faith and False advertising.
Especially because they tried to stealth it into the patch. Dev let it slip that it was indeed a treadmill.
However this game was marketed at a specific group not all gamers – see there is where you have to get over yourself. If you dont do the research before you buy the product it is you who is responsible.

That’s the way it appears at the moment but I’m hoping that if we all take it down a notch and show that (we) the players that have some very valid concerns about the direction of the game that we can inspirer Arena Net to open a Dialogue with us and put some fears to rest.

We’ve all made some considerable investments in the game and liked what we had, so I’d really like to see some level headed discussion come out of this.

I think I’m an important customers of theirs I have 3 level 80’s and have purchased bag and additional character slots and certainly spent more money on the cash shop then I would have on a subscription game. I’m sure you likely have too so let’s see if we can get some more info on this.

Narkosys.5173:

Changing fundamental game design after advertising is Bad faith and False advertising.
Especially because they tried to stealth it into the patch. Dev let it slip that it was indeed a treadmill.
However this game was marketed at a specific group not all gamers – see there is where you have to get over yourself. If you dont do the research before you buy the product it is you who is responsible.

I knew exactly what I bought, I had no complaints. I have no complaints over the new changes either. So what do I have to get over?

I understand they are trying to make more then one group of players happy. You dont understand that and think its a crime against you. Its not. And its that simple.

And they won’t change it. SO basically if you don’t like it guess what, you don’t have to play. Because not everything they do is going to make every one happy. And thats the way of the world.

They had to do something the current model wasn’t working they were losing people. So they tried something bold to see if it will save it.

Maybe it will save it maybe it will crash and burn horribly. Either way they are committed to the change and there is no going back now. Thats what you need to come to terms with and accept. If you cant well complaining and going on in the forums isn’t going to change it.

Namu.5712:

Narkosys.5173:

Changing fundamental game design after advertising is Bad faith and False advertising.
Especially because they tried to stealth it into the patch. Dev let it slip that it was indeed a treadmill.
However this game was marketed at a specific group not all gamers – see there is where you have to get over yourself. If you dont do the research before you buy the product it is you who is responsible.

I knew exactly what I bought, I had no complaints. I have no complaints over the new changes either. So what do I have to get over?

I understand they are trying to make more then one group of players happy. You dont understand that and think its a crime against you. Its not. And its that simple.

And they won’t change it. SO basically if you don’t like it guess what, you don’t have to play. Because not everything they do is going to make every one happy. And thats the way of the world.

They had to do something the current model wasn’t working they were losing people. So they tried something bold to see if it will save it.

Maybe it will save it maybe it will crash and burn horribly. Either way they are committed to the change and there is no going back now. Thats what you need to come to terms with and accept. If you cant well complaining and going on in the forums isn’t going to change it.

Losing people?
Their stocks reflect a drop WHEN they announced ascended gear, and another drop when it was released.

Losing people?
Well mabe they should have done what anyone with an IQ higher then a monkey would have done and FIX BUGS in the game before you release CONTENT, ANY CONTENT. I was always disgusted when I would find these special events like holloween when you have classes that can barely play because 50% of their talents are bugged, or they keep nerfing the wrong abilities, or issues like culling exist. What the hell are they thinking? They are acting like a high school dropout that was randomly given a job to develop or be in charge of development at a game company. ZERO EXPERIENCE. Fixing bugs is all the people wanted, fixing bugs was the main issue why anyone was leaving (excluding the people that would have left no matter what the did).

When you design a car, put it into production then sell it;
Then people who buy the car find out the factory radiator is bad, so is the pistons, and the power steering. A-net as said car company is basically saying " too bad, but Hey here is some free plastic rims" then they just start production on a new car.

What do the consumers usually do? Turn the other cheek?

I’d be much happier with Ascended if I could get it with the same time investment through other means, although it is a bit soon after launch to be adding new gear.

But it’s too late to do it that way now for WvW players unless they add that immediately because no one is going to want to be behind the curve, fighting PVE dungeon hamsters decked out in the best gear.

Corvindi.5734:

I’d be much happier with Ascended if I could get it with the same time investment through other means, although it is a bit soon after launch to be adding new gear.

But it’s too late to do it that way now for WvW players unless they add that immediately because no one is going to want to be behind the curve, fighting PVE dungeon hamsters decked out in the best gear.

Can players even take Ascended gear into PvP and WvW?

Logun.2349:

Corvindi.5734:

I’d be much happier with Ascended if I could get it with the same time investment through other means, although it is a bit soon after launch to be adding new gear.

But it’s too late to do it that way now for WvW players unless they add that immediately because no one is going to want to be behind the curve, fighting PVE dungeon hamsters decked out in the best gear.

Can players even take Ascended gear into PvP and WvW?

Yes. WvW. I couldn’t care less about that other pvp.

Also, I just changed my mind. No compromise is possible, at least as far as I’m concerned. The new backpack is a major gold drain. Making this gear pay to win since you can buy gems from the store to exchange for gold and unlike exotics it isn’t an easy grind to do it yourself.

Edited: Can’t type, need coffee…

Corvindi.5734:

Logun.2349:

Corvindi.5734:

I’d be much happier with Ascended if I could get it with the same time investment through other means, although it is a bit soon after launch to be adding new gear.

But it’s too late to do it that way now for WvW players unless they add that immediately because no one is going to want to be behind the curve, fighting PVE dungeon hamsters decked out in the best gear.

Corvindi, could you expand on that comment, what does it take to grind and or how much gold would one have to spend to get it?

And if they can be brought into WvW I agree they need to make them obtainable through that play style right away.

I know we have players that almost exclusively play the game in that mode and its unfair and unbalancing to make them play PvE to get them.

Can players even take Ascended gear into PvP and WvW?

Yes. WvW. I couldn’t care less about that other pvp.

Also, I just changed my mind. No compromise is possible, at least as far as I’m concerned. The new backpack is a major gold drain. Making this gear pay to win since you can buy gems from the store to exchange for gold and unlike exotics it isn’t an easy grind to do it yourself.

Edited: Can’t type, need coffee…

Check out the guildmate already has guild backpack thread for the info on what it takes to make one.

John Lucier.5486:

Namu.5712:

Narkosys.5173:

Changing fundamental game design after advertising is Bad faith and False advertising.
Especially because they tried to stealth it into the patch. Dev let it slip that it was indeed a treadmill.
However this game was marketed at a specific group not all gamers – see there is where you have to get over yourself. If you dont do the research before you buy the product it is you who is responsible.

I knew exactly what I bought, I had no complaints. I have no complaints over the new changes either. So what do I have to get over?

I understand they are trying to make more then one group of players happy. You dont understand that and think its a crime against you. Its not. And its that simple.

And they won’t change it. SO basically if you don’t like it guess what, you don’t have to play. Because not everything they do is going to make every one happy. And thats the way of the world.

They had to do something the current model wasn’t working they were losing people. So they tried something bold to see if it will save it.

Maybe it will save it maybe it will crash and burn horribly. Either way they are committed to the change and there is no going back now. Thats what you need to come to terms with and accept. If you cant well complaining and going on in the forums isn’t going to change it.

Losing people?
Their stocks reflect a drop WHEN they announced ascended gear, and another drop when it was released.

Losing people?
Well mabe they should have done what anyone with an IQ higher then a monkey would have done and FIX BUGS in the game before you release CONTENT, ANY CONTENT. I was always disgusted when I would find these special events like holloween when you have classes that can barely play because 50% of their talents are bugged, or they keep nerfing the wrong abilities, or issues like culling exist. What the hell are they thinking? They are acting like a high school dropout that was randomly given a job to develop or be in charge of development at a game company. ZERO EXPERIENCE. Fixing bugs is all the people wanted, fixing bugs was the main issue why anyone was leaving (excluding the people that would have left no matter what the did).

When you design a car, put it into production then sell it;
Then people who buy the car find out the factory radiator is bad, so is the pistons, and the power steering. A-net as said car company is basically saying " too bad, but Hey here is some free plastic rims" then they just start production on a new car.

What do the consumers usually do? Turn the other cheek?

Their stocks show a steady decline actually since the first month of GW2 going live. It was not a sudden drop it was steadily declining each and every month.

If your going to make an argument based on stocks look at all data involved not just take the bit out that you think proves anything lol.

I’ll be honest op. I really don’t think Anet cares how to win anyone back at this point.

xtorma.1283:

I’ll be honest op. I really don’t think Anet cares how to win anyone back at this point.

I don’t either. I think they’re chasing whales.

It’s very clever how they’re doing the backpack, reminds me of when I’m crafting and almost to the next tier but I don’t have enough of that one ingredient that is on the TP for too much silver, so of course I give in and buy it, just to get me to the next crafting level.

Only in this case it will be players who have everything they need except maybe one or two components, only they don’t have the gold to buy them on the TP and they don’t want to grind the mats themselves, so guess what they do? They buy gems and exchange them for gold, just to finish this one item.

Rinse, repeat, profit.

Logun.2349:

Corvindi.5734:

I’d be much happier with Ascended if I could get it with the same time investment through other means, although it is a bit soon after launch to be adding new gear.

But it’s too late to do it that way now for WvW players unless they add that immediately because no one is going to want to be behind the curve, fighting PVE dungeon hamsters decked out in the best gear.

Can players even take Ascended gear into PvP and WvW?

Ascended rarity is between Exotic and Legend. They said ascended bridges the gap between them. There can’t be gear progression. Ascended is the new Exotic, there’s not gonna be another rarity for another set of armor. Ascended armor isn’t even here yet anyway. Just back pieces and rings.

Namu.5712:

John Lucier.5486:

Namu.5712:

Narkosys.5173:

Changing fundamental game design after advertising is Bad faith and False advertising.
Especially because they tried to stealth it into the patch. Dev let it slip that it was indeed a treadmill.
However this game was marketed at a specific group not all gamers – see there is where you have to get over yourself. If you dont do the research before you buy the product it is you who is responsible.

I knew exactly what I bought, I had no complaints. I have no complaints over the new changes either. So what do I have to get over?

I understand they are trying to make more then one group of players happy. You dont understand that and think its a crime against you. Its not. And its that simple.

And they won’t change it. SO basically if you don’t like it guess what, you don’t have to play. Because not everything they do is going to make every one happy. And thats the way of the world.

They had to do something the current model wasn’t working they were losing people. So they tried something bold to see if it will save it.

Maybe it will save it maybe it will crash and burn horribly. Either way they are committed to the change and there is no going back now. Thats what you need to come to terms with and accept. If you cant well complaining and going on in the forums isn’t going to change it.

Losing people?
Their stocks reflect a drop WHEN they announced ascended gear, and another drop when it was released.

Losing people?
Well mabe they should have done what anyone with an IQ higher then a monkey would have done and FIX BUGS in the game before you release CONTENT, ANY CONTENT. I was always disgusted when I would find these special events like holloween when you have classes that can barely play because 50% of their talents are bugged, or they keep nerfing the wrong abilities, or issues like culling exist. What the hell are they thinking? They are acting like a high school dropout that was randomly given a job to develop or be in charge of development at a game company. ZERO EXPERIENCE. Fixing bugs is all the people wanted, fixing bugs was the main issue why anyone was leaving (excluding the people that would have left no matter what the did).

When you design a car, put it into production then sell it;
Then people who buy the car find out the factory radiator is bad, so is the pistons, and the power steering. A-net as said car company is basically saying " too bad, but Hey here is some free plastic rims" then they just start production on a new car.

What do the consumers usually do? Turn the other cheek?

Their stocks show a steady decline actually since the first month of GW2 going live. It was not a sudden drop it was steadily declining each and every month.

If your going to make an argument based on stocks look at all data involved not just take the bit out that you think proves anything lol.

I suggest you take the same suggestion to heart, so you don’t post blatantly false information again. Ty come again

We shouldn’t need/wan “Infusions” in WvW and Ascended WvW Gear (aka Soldier) is next to worthless for most builds. Not to mention how hard it is to get WvW badges now for Exotics (much less Ascended) without abusing puzzle mechanics.

At the beginning i was realy angry about this change i felt betrayed, due to the company’s lie. when i think about it Anet is going to change exotic to be the new rare. it is nice but all can ignore it something that i see as wrong, it is hard to get the ascended, a player get 5 tokens for every fractal that means 15 on each phase the cheapest gear can be obtained for 1200 tokens that mean a significant amount of grind, something that i detest (i have been in the cursed shore a number of times for the story, armor pieces and help some friends), in my opinion Anet need to tune down the price of the ascended gear, add rare materials to LOW LEVEL areas, add an option to get ascended armor from any other area of the game. by the way… why can Anet add the ascended rings to the outside world loot table and give it the drop rate of an exotic item, it will take a second to do that.

Pretty sure Eric Flannum (lead designer, kind of head dog if you will) has left Anet. They silently put up a job posting early October for a Lead Architect role.

I agree with the OP.

There ought be a variety of means to get the top tier gear, not just dungeons, and especially not a single dungeon. This was one of their core principles, and it’s very disappointing to see those principles be bluntly abandoned.

It’s almost as if the “live team” is a completely different set of people who never bought into those principle to begin with. And well, maybe that’s how it is. Shame.

Gilandred.9870:

To the OP, the developers have already addressed your concern in bullet point 2:

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.”

Where is this link again because i didn’t read that on lindsey’s addressing of it.

Logun.2349:

Dear Arena Net,

I’m going to write this as an open letter to you to let others chime in about this so I hope you don’t mine. I’d also ask that this thread not be merged hidden or deleted since the intent of this is to find a compromise.

Ok so you felt the game needed to have another level of gear between Exotics and Legendries for players to work on, I’m cool with this under some conditions.

Providing you follow one simple GOLGEN rule. Never take something away from one play style in favor of another, never change things again that takes a feature away or adds a feature that favors one path through your game over another, let me explain.

In GW2 you gave us all a path to the best gear in the game regardless of how we wanted to play the game. You appeared to understand that many players play MMO’s in different ways and the freedom of choice on how we made our way through the game was ours.

You also did not pigeonhole the players into ONE particular path at end game. You told us that at endgame we could just keep doing the things that WE liked to do.
Eric Flannum himself said: “We have a basic philosophy of that we don’t expect you to play a different game at level 80 that you played up to then”. “We don’t think it’s ok that if you didn’t like to do dungeons before max level we don’t expect you to be forced into dungeons at endgame “.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-YBsK17j6I

I would like you to stay true to these above core philosophies.

Ok on to making this right with the community!

1) Ensure the community that you are not taking anything away from crafting, before Ascended Gear Crafters could make the most powerful Weapons and Armor in the game, Make sure that is still the case. There is no reason you need to change this for this new level of gear.

2) Ensure the community that there are multiple path to Ascended Armor, Weapons, Infusion and their crafting components outside of Dungeons through the open world events, PvP and WvW content. Many people do not want to play another “Lobby World” game where you stand around for hours trying to find a group or put up with the frustration of someone quitting a group just before the last boss fight at the bottom of a dungeon.

3) Ensure Players that future content patches will not interfere with the FREEDOM of choice the player has on how they chose to play the game at endgame or otherwise and future patches will never take anything away from players that the core game offers now or stray from the original design philosophy we were all sold on.

4) Optional: I highly recommend you put up a public test server. One, it appears your content needs to be stress tested to get the bugs out but this also gives you feedback on new content and how it will be received by the community giving you opportunities to tweak it before you tick off the world.

So, the only thing that’s being asked for here is that player choice be preserved in regards to how they find their path into the best gear the game has to offer and some reassurance that that choice is still present.

This is not asking for much Arena Net, and I’m asking this one for myself but also for a way to calm down the community. Just admit that you did not realize the impact this patch would have on the core player base and make these small concession. No one is asking for you to remove content just restore the games endgame flexibility for all and ensure that flexibility is still there. I can’t see anyone objecting to these terms as it allows all players to just keep playing the game the way they have and eventually they will get the gear they want or need.

In closing I’d just like to add that you need to look at ways of keeping the open world viable and refreshed. Adding fancy dungeon content is great but if it comes at an expense of shifting focus off the open world many of your dynamic events will lose the critical mass of players they need to remain viable.

Adding top end crafting mats for the new top end gear and opportunities for it to drop in top end open world events will help to keep the level 80 zones active. Be mindful of how new content makes the rest of the game play and that it does whisk that critical mass of players away from zones that need strong participation to remain viable.

Thank you for your consideration,
Respectfully
Logun

Completely agree. Even if it’s for a short while it still is against the manifesto. If what people claim is true about the second bullet point making it available outside of dungeons fine. But I want just like the OP is posting these things to be available via definitive crafting recipes and not the stupid mystic casino. Absolutely should it never ever make something other then the item I’m trying to make for this armor type when using it for these ascended items.

Ardrea.7045:

I agree with the OP.

There ought be a variety of means to get the top tier gear, not just dungeons, and especially not a single dungeon. This was one of their core principles, and it’s very disappointing to see those principles be bluntly abandoned.

It’s almost as if the “live team” is a completely different set of people who never bought into those principle to begin with. And well, maybe that’s how it is. Shame.

Thanks for the support Ardrea, I just think that if we had some reassurance that Ascended gear was not going to be the NEW raid like instanced gear sets. If we had some confirmation from Arena Net that this gear tier is not being put in to pander to one endgame play style choice it would go a long way to ease the tension.

I’m less concerned about a new gear tier and more concerned about the devaluation of crafting and open world content.

My concerns are is they soft peddled this off as dungeon mitigation gear but with the new items showing up on the GWDB we see that Infusion along with the Agony mitigation will also have stats assigned to them. This will have an effect on the power of players outside of dungeons so what will happen to the open world content? Will the open world content in turn need to be buffed up in power to match?

It would be very helpful to have some questions answered in regards to how this is all going to blend in to the rest of the game. At the moment we just have a bunch of half answers. It’s like ANet is still trying to figure it out and just feeling their way along.

I agree it does feel like we have a new team in charge of the game.

End game grind progression WILL be in this game it isn’t going anywhere. And if you are leaving, can I have your stuff?

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Pretty sure Eric Flannum (lead designer, kind of head dog if you will) has left Anet. They silently put up a job posting early October for a Lead Architect role.

That would be some really sad news, but would explain why some of this seems out of step with the core ideologies the game was built around.

People suggest compromises that involve scrapping everything but the infusions, and only have them have agony related stats. They however forget that that’s where the long term treadmill actually is, not the ascended gear. Once the entire set of ascended gear has been released, stronger infusion tiers will be released, ones that are straight upgrades to the old ones, rendering those sub par, just like ascended gear devalues exotic gear.
Let’s say they add 2-3 pieces of gear every 3 months, and after the gear set is complete move on to releasing infusion tiers, they could keep the treadmill alive for a long time with the newly implemented system.

There is no “small treadmill”. It’s either there with either the ascended gear and/or infusions, or it’s not without them. Even if ascended gear and infusions were super easy(and I mean 20 minute play time per piece) easy to acquire, it would still be a treadmill. It would be the worst kind of treadmill, because grinders would feel unsatisfied or unachieved, and the purists loose their goal of not having to worry about keeping their gear stats maxed out permanently.

We’re at a crossroads, and ANet set the blinker towards the mill.

ASB.4295:

People suggest compromises that involve scrapping everything but the infusions, and only have them have agony related stats. They however forget that that’s where the long term treadmill actually is, not the ascended gear. Once the entire set of ascended gear has been released, stronger infusion tiers will be released, ones that are straight upgrades to the old ones, rendering those sub par, just like ascended gear devalues exotic gear.
Let’s say they add 2-3 pieces of gear every 3 months, and after the gear set is complete move on to releasing infusion tiers, they could keep the treadmill alive for a long time with the newly implemented system.

There is no “small treadmill”. It’s either there with either the ascended gear and/or infusions, or it’s not without them. Even if ascended gear and infusions were super easy(and I mean 20 minute play time per piece) easy to acquire, it would still be a treadmill. It would be the worst kind of treadmill, because grinders would feel unsatisfied or unachieved, and the purists loose their goal of not having to worry about keeping their gear stats maxed out permanently.

We’re at a crossroads, and ANet set the blinker towards the mill.

I don’t realy care about the infusion treadmill because it will only effect players that want to grind the new infinite dungeon, most of the player base will be bored from doing the same 9 fractals over and over and over again. this “progression” is perfect for the content locust. M main concerns is the new gear a thing that can effect every other aspect of the game.

This will have an effect on the power of players outside of dungeons so what will happen to the open world content? Will the open world content in turn need to be buffed up in power to match?

In my opinion the best solution to this problems is to tune down ascended armor and weapon buffs by 50%.

DegoLocc.5976:

End game grind progression WILL be in this game it isn’t going anywhere. And if you are leaving, can I have your stuff?

No, go grind your own stuff,…LOL

As angry as I am over these changes (especially so soon after release) here are my thoughts on grinding for what they’re worth.

If you’re having fun with the game, whatever that might be, doing dailies, running dungeons, collecting mats for crafting, experimenting with recipes, doing the open world events, or participating in WvW or PvP then it’s not a grind.

The original designers of the game understood this. It only becomes a grind when you are forced into a single type of gameplay that you don’t particular like to begin with or becomes boring because you have to repeat the same action and content over and over again.

So in my compromise if everything you do in the game (crafting, adventuring, dungeons, dynamic events) ticks you a bit closer to acquiring the top end gear in the game then your earning the gear as a side effect of you having fun playing the game YOUR WAY.

If we have to have gear progression to keep the progression hungry players happy then the rest of us should be able to spontaneously work towards the same goal by doing what we do now….just having fun with the game.

I’m pretty sure this was the point of Karma, by just playing the game you earn your way into Exotic gear (the top level gear in the game) that’s what was great about this MMO. By just playing the game and collecting the raw mats was another path to the top end gear in the game, and lastly if you wanted to run dungeons you could get into top end gear that way too……this system is now broken.

This addition of the Ascended gear and Fractals has basically killed many of the best “Play the Game Your Way Systems” this game had to offer from crafting to karma.
The addition of this new tier of gear is just a symptom of the pandemic of things they broke with this patch.

What happend did all the original team walk off the job?

How to win me back:
Shower me with gold and surround me with beautiful women, feed/house all the poor and stop all the wars.

I’m all for a public testing server.

Logun.2349:

Eric Flannum himself said: “We have a basic philosophy of that we don’t expect you to play a different game at level 80 that you played up to then”. “We don’t think it’s ok that if you didn’t like to do dungeons before max level we don’t expect you to be forced into dungeons at endgame “.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-YBsK17j6I

It’s not even vague – he’s actually saying this. I’m sure he’s actually being honest, but who can say which developers actually got their opinions through to present?
I wonder why they never considered addressing this issue (incongruity in past and present philosophy on game design) in their communication before announcing the ascended gear.

You can start FotM runs at level 2, no? So yes, level 80 content is still the same as level 2 content. It’s just. Very. Limited. Welcome to Fractals of the Mist: The Game!