Guild Wars 2

So, I’ve seen a number of people complaining about the current dialogue system and thought I’d open a very specific conversation about it. Some history first.

The first system, which entailed zoomed in shots of characters where actions, lip syncing and general facial expressions could be seen, is still available in the personal story. The cinematic dialogue was able to be skipped for those who didn’t want to listen to the dialogue. It was not well received by the community, which lead to the change of system to what it is currently, the out in the open dialogue system. This system presents the dialogue more naturally, seeing characters out in the open within the environment and allowing more things to be seen and done during dialogue, such as flipping a switch, readying weapons and other smaller details, but doesn’t have the ability to be skipped.

So, the question and discussion at hand, is there a happy middle ground? Can we have world persistent dialogue that is skippable? or can we develop cinematic content that properly portrays all the dialogue?

What solutions or alternatives would you suggest to the system at hand?

Remember, this topic is about solutions or alternatives to the issue, NOT if this is an issue in the first place, so kindly leave that debate elsewhere.

The only thing I liked about the old way was that it was skippable, for when you are doing the same thing for the umpteenth time (dungeons are the prime example). The new way feels much more like a normal conversation.

The new way can work much better if the devs always keep the limitations in mind when making new content. The biggest problem being unskippable dialog, do not throw a spotlight on that problem by having us stand around talking for a few minutes, then move in silence toward our next objective for two minutes. Have the dialog play out while the characters are walking somewhere, people that don’t care “skip” it by ignoring the chit chat and just running to the destination, people that want to listen stop and talk, then go, or go but listen on the way. Everyone wins.

Unfortunately a lot of the time they do just that – stand around and talk, THEN travel in silence when the talking is finished. Just being aware of the issue I think a lot of the frustration can be minimized by good encounter design.

The only thing I liked about the old way was that it was skippable, for when you are doing the same thing for the umpteenth time (dungeons are the prime example). The new way feels much more like a normal conversation.

I actually really, really liked the old style “zoom in” mode, because it let me see the people in the conversation.

I think the new system is technically and story-wise better, especially because three or more people talking with the old one … not so hot.

I liked it at first, but it quickly got on my nerves. Everyone had the same body language.

Excelsior.

I like both actually. Not a fan of cinematics myself, because, for example, where is the sudden orchestra coming from playing in the background or tracking shots and camera movements revealing everything around the area that is not visible to my character. So the zoomed in dialogue with the nice and calm flash animations had something stylish and classy to it.

The new on-the-fly dialogue is also nice, because it’s not like someone puts a straitjacket on me. You know, when in every game a cutscene starts your controls stop to work, it goes into letterbox and you are not a player of the game anymore and you are forced to sit and watch. Nah. I like that I can walk around while I talk to people or they talk to me. It’s good and nice this way.

If my Asura ears would not be so stiff while talking. I must be very excited in those dialogues… :-D

So, why would you want a change in the first place? You want to re-invent the wheel for what’s sake especially.

For those who wish to talk about whether they like the current dialogue system or the old one, you are free to create another topic to discuss the matter.

This topic is to attempt to find a solution to provide storytelling in a manner that provides good storytelling while allowing people to skip the dialogue. The previous version had issues with storytelling but showed body language and facial expressions (somewhat), while the current version can better show what’s happening alongside dialogue but cannot be skipped. Can we attempt to find a solution to make everyone happy?

So far the only suggestion is simply to pace the dialogue better with the action. Anyone else with other suggestions?

I think it could just be more concise. Often, if you are with multiple NPCs, it seems each must speak on each “topic” which makes the conversation unnecessarily long.

Personally, I preferred the original cut scene version.

My Problem

I prefer the new dialogue system overall, but my problem is it often leads to me missing dialogue. I usually play with the sound turned off (because it’s too noisy to hear the game anyway) so I rely on reading the text.

Under the new system if a character is behind me, too far in front or otherwise ‘off camera’ when they start speaking I won’t know there’s a conversation happening until either my character responds or I notice the text appearing in the chat box. Then I have to wait for the conversation to end to scroll the chat box up and re-read it.

On top of that I read slowly so when I can see the dialogue boxes they’re often gone before I’ve gotten all the way through.

My Solution

Keep the dialogue system introduced in HoT but add an option players can switch on or off in the options menu where dialogue will only start and progress when you press a button.

So for example under the current system when you finish a fight one of the characters might start speaking immediately, and as soon as they’ve said their lines someone will respond, and so on until the conversation is finished.

With this option enabled when you finish a fight a visual notification of some sort will appear to let you know a conversation is going to start. You press a key of your choice and the first character says their line. The dialogue window remains above their head after the voice acting is finished. When you press the key again the next character speaks, and so on until the conversation is finished. (Ideally the game will indicate in some way who is going to speak next.)

Benefits

• Most importantly it would give me an opportunity to ensure I’m ready to read/listen before the conversation starts and time to read it.
• It would also allow me to zoom the camera in and angle it so I can clearly see the characters (I usually play with it zoomed all the way out and almost overhead).
• It might also be possible to use this system in the opposite way – to ‘fast forward’ conversations, similar to skipping. It might lead to some weird effects, like NPCs ‘teleporting’ to their new locations (like they do if they’re following you, get stuck and get too far behind) but I assume people who want to skip the dialogue wouldn’t mind that.

Downsides

The only one I can think of is it might ruin some of the impact of conversations. For example if one character is interrupted by another or something happens suddenly you won’t see that, you’ll see one character deliver their lines and stop mid-sentence, then a pause while everyone stands around calmly, then the thing happens and everyone reacts.

But that’s why I suggest it should only be an option that players can turn on or off. So people who would prefer more control can choose it, knowing there will be that trade-off, and people who want the original ‘full impact’ dialogue can stick with the existing system.

I’d fix dialogue by making it skippable, then building that into future design.

HINT.
HINT.
ANET.

I like the old style and the new style. I wish they would mix the two together from time to time.

My biggest problem with the new system is sound. It’s all over the place with my surround sound system, and unless I’m looking at a character ‘just right’, I can hardly hear them. I have to look back and forth at people talking to make sure I can hear them, which is a bit of a pain. I also spend a lot of time re-reading what they are saying in the text in the chat box.

The original system didn’t have that issue. Everyone was nice and loud in ‘center channel’, where they belong.

Moonyeti.3296:

The only thing I liked about the old way was that it was skippable, for when you are doing the same thing for the umpteenth time (dungeons are the prime example). The new way feels much more like a normal conversation.

The new way can work much better if the devs always keep the limitations in mind when making new content. The biggest problem being unskippable dialog, do not throw a spotlight on that problem by having us stand around talking for a few minutes, then move in silence toward our next objective for two minutes. Have the dialog play out while the characters are walking somewhere, people that don’t care “skip” it by ignoring the chit chat and just running to the destination, people that want to listen stop and talk, then go, or go but listen on the way. Everyone wins.

Unfortunately a lot of the time they do just that – stand around and talk, THEN travel in silence when the talking is finished. Just being aware of the issue I think a lot of the frustration can be minimized by good encounter design.

The only thing I liked about the old way was that it was skippable, for when you are doing the same thing for the umpteenth time (dungeons are the prime example). The new way feels much more like a normal conversation.

Best idea so far, Moonyeti.

There are a lot of these dialogs that could be put in movement, and even DURING combat. Think on the magnificent jewel that are dialogues in the Uncharted series. A lot of them aren’t “lets stop and talk”, but intertwined with the action. That change alone could erase so much wrong in the GW2 storytelling style.

Ardid.7203:

Best idea so far, Moonyeti.

There are a lot of these dialogs that could be put in movement, and even DURING combat. Think on the magnificent jewel that are dialogues in the Uncharted series. A lot of them aren’t “lets stop and talk”, but intertwined with the action. That change alone could erase so much wrong in the GW2 storytelling style.

During combat as well, yes. There needs to be more of a break in the wall between ‘talk time’ and ‘play game time’ in general I feel. Though with that said I think they need to keep in mind what type of conversation is going on with what action. Talking and walking, lay on the heavy, deep conversation topics. In combat or other high action times, don’t be dumping plot critical exposition that may be way too easy to miss with all the action.

They can also start giving us little things to do if we are supposed to wait for a bit of longer conversations. Something like this: Say the next chapter starts with us getting a call to meet Taimi in her lab, she has some new info to tell us. We go there, load into the instance and see the green star over Taimi’s head. When we get close we see she is finishing up working on something in the lab, and the conversation triggers. “Commander, good to see you! I have some good news, I just need to finish this or it will spoil.” You then offer to help, while she then goes on to explain the long detailed discovery she made. The help can just be simple, press the action key to pick up boxes and put them down in a marked area for example. It would just give people something easy to do while listening that would also not be so distracting as to not pay attention. It could even be optional, so if you don’t help, she finishes herself when she is done talking and you move on to the action part. Giving idle hands something to do would take some of the pain of waiting away for the more impatient players.

I think the key would be to have a lot of little tricks like this to use, and don’t rely on any one of them too much that it becomes a gimmick. Also to use each trick in an appropriate spot, or they could end up making things worse, not better. (Don’t put critical dialog in during combat in a jumping puzzle for an extreme example).

Moonyeti is a god! I love your suggestion and I support it make it interactive dialogue system where its keeps moving forward not a stand still unless everything happens right there then yea talk walls or something crumbles/blows up and you’re continuing the quest/instance.

Rauderi.8706:

I’d fix dialogue by making it skippable, then building that into future design.

HINT.
HINT.
ANET.

Lol. Agreed. Most of it just feels like filler, during the LS bits for the most part I just want to skip everything that doesn’t involve combat. Especially the bits where you wait for an NPC to saunter over to some trigger point. More stabbin’ less blabbin’.