Guild Wars 2

Something that seriously grinds my gears to the point of rage quitting Guild Wars 2 for several months is the serious time disrespectful under effective skills over hearted enemies.

Awhile back I was tried to to play pve solo and kill the champion Jungle Troll in Thundertroll Swamp.
Failed miserable a few times realized it was a group event, and went in with 2 guild mates.
For 2 hours long frustrating hours of constantly fighting that b——ard only to give-up and die from the fact that the boss could keep regenerating and spam aoe poisen and slowly kill everyone from slow ineffective recharging self heal ability. I tried to fight other group even bosses, every time completely wrecked. Low-level to high.

I decided to take a look at what was wrong, my traits were maxed out on healing and power for my build how the hell am I not able to have a healing that could give me the duration needed to last those bosses. I decided to just to skip champions and just aim for elites for veteran bosses. Easier, but took 30-15 min each. I looked at the average attack I made did 1% damage. checked for ways to do more damage, none all my skills did average same amount of damage when fully vested traits to power.

Struck my mind, this game is a time wasting meat grinder. Every skill is ineffective at actually doing heavy critical damage to PvE creatures, aside from simply dedicating to the annoying Berzerker set gears. Every Heal skill is ineffective at keeping you alive for a drawn out battle.

This game’s combat progression is basically guild wars 1 combat except you can only do normal attacks and do neat little tricks that fire 3 shots instead of one but have absolutely no effective damage output.

Solution make 2, 3, 4 skills do MORE DAMAGE and Conditions more COMBAT EFFECTIVE (longer durations) and make 6, 7, 8 utility skills provide healing, or 5 provide MUCH MORE DURATION AND EFFECTIVENESS.

was playing an elementalist, theif, guardian, and warrior.

Am I reading this right? So you’re spec’d terribly for PvE with a healing power build and you’re complaining you’re doing low damage and unable to outlast bosses? What???

lol, I kill the troll champ alone in about 2-3 min, way faster if a necro is with me (about 30s)…
Healing is pointless if you don’t consider buffing, cleansing and debuffing… power is meaning less with out buff, you can have max power, max crit damage and max crit, PvE weakness just screw you if you don’t cleanse it. You can heal 20 000/s but if you get 2 stack of agony you heal 0/s that’s how it is, poison reduce healing by 33%, agony 50%.
So it’s because of the lack of knowledge, skill, reflection or common sense that you wasted your time… pick the ones you like.

My warrior if full berserker, my necro is full cleric (imba heal 2k hp/s, protection, blind, cleanse, debuff)

How in the hell are elites and vets taking you 15-30 minutes to kill? You realize it helps to actually wear gear and not fight things naked, right?

Honestly, you can solo most champs in just a few minutes if you know what you’re doing. This is with full zerk characters, not specced for healing or anything, so much more squishy than a character actually built to withstand damage. But even on my ele, which is traited for tanky support (healing/condi cleansing; only use it in WvW other than for mapping), I can kill a PvE champ in 10 minutes or less, and my damage is pretty terrible on that character.

If you couldn’t kill a champ with two other people, in two hours, you are seriously doing something wrong. If you’re not statting any power or precision or ferocity, you might want to re-think your build. You don’t have to go full zerker, but if you’re all in cleric’s gear or something, you have to expect that your damage is going to suffer severely.

If you have no condi cleansing, and you’re fighting a champ that spams poison, switch things around so that you have at least one or two condi cleanses; if you’re with guildmates, chances are at least one of you has easy access to an AoE condi cleanse. Could be a mixture of bad traits for damage and low-damage gear, or could just be your gear. If you’re going full bunker in PvE, don’t expect that you’ll be able to kill anything in a reasonable amount of time.

Well… some people just suck I guess. Not sure why you’d try small-scale PvE with an obviously team-support orientied gear for facing hordes of damaging enemies(such as it is in WvW).
Veterans die in a couple good attacks from my full berserker thief. In full damage spec I can mug-backstab some certain veterans for a 0.1 second kill.

Being specced wrong aside he does have a great point about how healing is nerfed to stupidity in this game. There is no diversity when they don’t even have their own trinity.
What makes it worse is not all of the classes have the same capabilities of condition removal even when specced properly, and not all classes have the same choices in healing. The scores aren’t equalized for the roles. For example, heals from an engineer are not on par with heals as an elementalist.

If we’re to believe their statement about combat, that no class is left behind and that it doesn’t matter which class you bring to the party, they need to do better about making the scores between similar healing skills the same and give all classes the ability to remove conditions the same.

I have a great example for those who would argue against what I’m saying. I’ve played my ranger and my guardian as healers. They both have three 2 choices 1 by trait and 1 by skill that automatically remove conditions on a timer.

My engineer doesn’t have even 1 choice for automatic removal, but people will continue to argue against actual balance and miss the point entirely.

Evalia.7103:

Well… some people just suck I guess. Not sure why you’d try small-scale PvE with an obviously team-support orientied gear for facing hordes of damaging enemies(such as it is in WvW).
Veterans die in a couple good attacks from my full berserker thief. In full damage spec I can mug-backstab some certain veterans for a 0.1 second kill.

But, with the higher level veterans, your thief is a glass cannon and could be one hit by them (also the agro circle in Orr is massive). That is what a thief is – a one on one role. In WvW, I was behind my group with my Mesmer and a thief tried to gank me because I was alone, little did he know that the Sceptre/pistol build I was using dazed and confused him so much, he could not go invisible to escape. It happens both ways in this game. No build is ever totally superior to another as everyone has a weakness that can be exploited. That is how GW1 was built and how this game is also.

Trinity is NOT diversity – it is forced roles based on profession. People who think the trinity is diversity, need to really get out of the trinity mentality and look at it objectively. The trinity is a simplified game mechanic to make it easier to build a game.

You can’t kill every champion, or maybe even veteran, with every build. Some are trivial, some are actually easier and faster soloed and others require a small army.

tigirius.9014:

My engineer doesn’t have even 1 choice for automatic removal, but people will continue to argue against actual balance and miss the point entirely.

Automated Response, Cleaning Formula 409 …

Simple answer as to why that troll was a PITA…

It got scaled up by passing players before you got to it.

Nothing scales back down after it gets scaled up. If someone tries to solo a champ when it pops and they die, sometimes the player abandons it. now imagine 30 players doing this while not knowing that someone else tried soloing it and it just gets harder and harder to solo.

You just get a champ that has been scaled to 30-50 players and it likely will take about 20+ players to take it down so it can respawn back to its normal champ scaling before a bunch of players try to solo and abandon it. Or when 100+ players over the course of time just run by it and scale it up.

IMO, the key to fighting powerful mobs in this game is taking advantage of the dumb AI and kiting. The best class is engineer with elixir infused bombs and backpack regen. No need to slow down movement by walking backwards or strafing. Just do a full run and let the bombs behind you hit the mobs. I do not fear any champion or even a swarm of vets (took on groups of them in the pavilion) and will be the first one to charge into a champ fight while 3 or 4 observers wait for more people to help. It’s rare for me to down with that setup. If I were to face them head on however, I would be guaranteed dead or forced to retreat often to heal back up. This will slow the fight down considerably.

Few other classes can fight similar, but it’s a bit slower. Bombs are continuous, but necro marks and wells work on a CD, plus death shroud AOE skills. Not sure about ele’s, but they do have some AOE abilities. Warriors would have to kite with bows and rifles and it’s a very slow mechanic. Not sure about thieves, but you might have to resort to cheap tactics. Pistol barrage then stealth, rinse and repeat, or some other similar combo. I see quite a few thieves do this in WvW. No serious threat to players, but against a mob you would slowly take down their health in a safe way.

Ravion Hawk.4736:

Simple answer as to why that troll was a PITA…

It got scaled up by passing players before you got to it.

Nothing scales back down after it gets scaled up. If someone tries to solo a champ when it pops and they die, sometimes the player abandons it. now imagine 30 players doing this while not knowing that someone else tried soloing it and it just gets harder and harder to solo.

You just get a champ that has been scaled to 30-50 players and it likely will take about 20+ players to take it down so it can respawn back to its normal champ scaling before a bunch of players try to solo and abandon it. Or when 100+ players over the course of time just run by it and scale it up.

Wrong.
They scale back down once the person is about 1800 range from them.

Nate.8146:

… cheap tactics ….

Uhuh, running around in circles pressing 1 1 1 2 3 4 5 1 1 1 1 1 is advanced tactics. Whittling down a champ usually consists of repeating a (relatively) safe procedure over and over and over.

I do miss pre-mega some times, soloing the separatists from Nageling was quite the fun

Well the champ the OP is talking about can be a PITA if your build is a shambles and you take no notice of the boss mechanics in the first place.
Sure his healing in his poison/invis cloud is silly but that’s why you have interrupts and DoT’s as well as straight up damage attacks.
Simple thing is avoid his poison and use your interrupts when he does his little crouch and pause… Also you may notice those little blackwater supplies lying around.. maybe try using them if your out of interrupts.

Vets/Elites should not be taking 15-30 mins on any build, perhaps forget champs and elites till you have mastered vets.. some people just aren’t gifted with certain skills and abilities in life…

Shun.9475:

Every Heal skill is ineffective at keeping you alive for a drawn out battle.

Heal skills are there as an emergency button.

You’re supposed to avoid taking the damage in the first place, by playing carefully, dodging, and generally not getting hit.

Ravion Hawk.4736:

Simple answer as to why that troll was a PITA…

It got scaled up by passing players before you got to it.

Nothing scales back down after it gets scaled up. If someone tries to solo a champ when it pops and they die, sometimes the player abandons it. now imagine 30 players doing this while not knowing that someone else tried soloing it and it just gets harder and harder to solo.

You just get a champ that has been scaled to 30-50 players and it likely will take about 20+ players to take it down so it can respawn back to its normal champ scaling before a bunch of players try to solo and abandon it. Or when 100+ players over the course of time just run by it and scale it up.

They do scale down, actually, as someone posted above.

That’s why it’s frequently asked in organized PUG boss blitz maps if there are too many people at a boss, for some to leave and head to another boss or to the center of the pavilion. Scaling up isn’t permanent.

@thread – Yes, healing power tends to suck overall except for in WvW; it’s not a stat meant to mitigate all damage, and for some classes it’s actually not worth it to use at all, anywhere. That’s why we have blocks, interrupts, dodges, evades, etc. If you’re sitting there facetanking every hit from a vet/elite/champ and expecting your heal to keep you alive…well, you’re doing it wrong, and/or playing the wrong game.

Ive never had an issue soloing champs in pve, with warrior or necro. In fact condition necro makes ir a hell of alot easier. The only time ive had trouble soloing anything was the spider queen in AC. So yeah OP, you might want to revisit your build and Perhaps your tatics. If you aren’t building for damage on a warrior and trying to faceroll, you will be dropped quick, especially if you arent watching the bosses tells and switching between ranged and melee when appropriate. The same could be said about any of the other professions you’ve used. Also you’ll never be able to outheal DPS against you. Even with a full healing build. It will help you last a bit longer, but youll never do enough damage to end the fight in enough time.

Shun.9475:

Something that seriously grinds my gears to the point of rage quitting Guild Wars 2 for several months is the serious time disrespectful under effective skills over hearted enemies.

Awhile back I was tried to to play pve solo and kill the champion Jungle Troll in Thundertroll Swamp.
Failed miserable a few times realized it was a group event, and went in with 2 guild mates.
For 2 hours long frustrating hours of constantly fighting that b——ard only to give-up and die from the fact that the boss could keep regenerating and spam aoe poisen and slowly kill everyone from slow ineffective recharging self heal ability. I tried to fight other group even bosses, every time completely wrecked. Low-level to high.

I decided to take a look at what was wrong, my traits were maxed out on healing and power for my build how the hell am I not able to have a healing that could give me the duration needed to last those bosses. I decided to just to skip champions and just aim for elites for veteran bosses. Easier, but took 30-15 min each. I looked at the average attack I made did 1% damage. checked for ways to do more damage, none all my skills did average same amount of damage when fully vested traits to power.

Struck my mind, this game is a time wasting meat grinder. Every skill is ineffective at actually doing heavy critical damage to PvE creatures, aside from simply dedicating to the annoying Berzerker set gears. Every Heal skill is ineffective at keeping you alive for a drawn out battle.

This game’s combat progression is basically guild wars 1 combat except you can only do normal attacks and do neat little tricks that fire 3 shots instead of one but have absolutely no effective damage output.

Solution make 2, 3, 4 skills do MORE DAMAGE and Conditions more COMBAT EFFECTIVE (longer durations) and make 6, 7, 8 utility skills provide healing, or 5 provide MUCH MORE DURATION AND EFFECTIVENESS.

was playing an elementalist, theif, guardian, and warrior.

conditions:

solo setting, that is. don’t bother with condis if there is more than one person.

You can run condi even with multiple people. It’s when you’re dealing with multiple people that apply condis.

not really. they’ll be applying their own weaker conditions and if you have a group you might as well stack vuln and get the 25%+ damage from 25 vuln – there is no condition equivalent to vuln.

The healer is a lie.

A healing build can work if you know how to use it properly. As a Ranger with magi gear and using a build heavily focused in Beastmastery, I can effectively solo almost every Champion in the game, in less than 5 minutes for most of them too. I have a lot of trouble with group events in Orr though. Group events everywhere else are way too easy to complain about. Because of the recent Megaserver changes though, its rare that you would ever need to solo a champion outside of trying to look awesome soloing dungeons in youtube videos. Just ask for help on chat. No one ignores you when you say there’s a champion somewhere on the map.

frans.8092:

You can’t kill every champion, or maybe even veteran, with every build. Some are trivial, some are actually easier and faster soloed and others require a small army.

tigirius.9014:

My engineer doesn’t have even 1 choice for automatic removal, but people will continue to argue against actual balance and miss the point entirely.

Automated Response, Cleaning Formula 409 …

Neither Automated Response, nor Cleaning Formula 409 automatically take off any conditions on an interval system. Cleaning Formula 409 takes them off of you only when you give up all other skills to use all Elixirs manually (Or 1 time when you actually lose enough hitpoints for Hidden Flask to go off 1 time) and Automated Response only resets the cooldowns of said skills and don’t get me started on the uselessness of medkit even with traits compared to other classes.

I’m speaking of the equivalents of the Rangers Empathic Bond trait and the Signet of Renewal, and the Guardian’s Purity trait and Absolute Resolultion trait.

Those are automatic heals automatic means one doesn’t have to press any buttons IE the imbalance. If one class has these options all classes should as far as traits are concerned if we are to believe that no class is left behind in combat or the idea that it doesn’t matter which classes we bring.

The other thing that bothers me, is the Engineer trait called Always Prepared that drops bandages which the Engineer cannot use instead of an Overcharged Healing Turret which would be far more effective especially when enemies blow it up and it causes that extra healing, this would be not unlike the benefit that the Rangers get with their trait Circle of Life which is non-destructable btw.

The best thing they can do is give a trait to the Inventions line that allows for an interval removal of conditions when under the affects of regeneration, and then another in the grandemaster column possibly in the same line that offers the ability to extend that interval to other players nearby. And change the Always Prepared trait to put an overcharged Healing Turret when downed since we lack any ability to move or heal ourselves unlike the Rangers 3 solid abilities solo.

^Read skills and traits more clearly before you use them in an argument. Absolute Resolution is not an automatic removal of conditions. It adds the condition removal to the Virtue’s active effect.

tigirius.9014:

frans.8092:

You can’t kill every champion, or maybe even veteran, with every build. Some are trivial, some are actually easier and faster soloed and others require a small army.

tigirius.9014:

My engineer doesn’t have even 1 choice for automatic removal, but people will continue to argue against actual balance and miss the point entirely.

Automated Response, Cleaning Formula 409 …

Neither Automated Response, nor Cleaning Formula 409 automatically take off any conditions on an interval system. Cleaning Formula 409 takes them off of you only when you give up all other skills to use all Elixirs manually (Or 1 time when you actually lose enough hitpoints for Hidden Flask to go off 1 time) and Automated Response only resets the cooldowns of said skills and don’t get me started on the uselessness of medkit even with traits compared to other classes.

I’m speaking of the equivalents of the Rangers Empathic Bond trait and the Signet of Renewal, and the Guardian’s Purity trait and Absolute Resolultion trait.

Those are automatic heals automatic means one doesn’t have to press any buttons IE the imbalance. If one class has these options all classes should as far as traits are concerned if we are to believe that no class is left behind in combat or the idea that it doesn’t matter which classes we bring.

The other thing that bothers me, is the Engineer trait called Always Prepared that drops bandages which the Engineer cannot use instead of an Overcharged Healing Turret which would be far more effective especially when enemies blow it up and it causes that extra healing, this would be not unlike the benefit that the Rangers get with their trait Circle of Life which is non-destructable btw.

The best thing they can do is give a trait to the Inventions line that allows for an interval removal of conditions when under the affects of regeneration, and then another in the grandemaster column possibly in the same line that offers the ability to extend that interval to other players nearby. And change the Always Prepared trait to put an overcharged Healing Turret when downed since we lack any ability to move or heal ourselves unlike the Rangers 3 solid abilities solo.

I too love our beloved engi class but, this isnt the right thread to be talking about it.

Not sure if trolling, but I’ll bite.

First off, what level are you, OP?

Aidan Savage.2078:

^Read skills and traits more clearly before you use them in an argument. Absolute Resolution is not an automatic removal of conditions. It adds the condition removal to the Virtue’s active effect.

Yes which then removes conditions from everyone within range. And you’re still missing the point, where on the Engineer traits line is there an option for that? At best we have the ability to drop tiny elixirs or sometimes manage not to get stunned out of using our 3-4 button AOE heal or manually overcharge a turret before it’s destroyed in 2 seconds.

And as far as being on topic is concerned, this is very much on topic as the OP is a healer spec and is talking about how healing isn’t really up to where it should be in PVE, no doubt the result of early nerfing when the balance team didn’t separate the code for PVE/PVP balance updates which did happen the first few months this game launched. Just because some people forgot or weren’t there to see it doesn’t mean it magically disappeared out of history.

tigirius.9014:

Yes which then removes conditions from everyone within range. And you’re still missing the point, where on the Engineer traits line is there an option for that? At best we have the ability to drop tiny elixirs or sometimes manage not to get stunned out of using our 3-4 button AOE heal or manually overcharge a turret before it’s destroyed in 2 seconds.

Are you really trying to say that two different professions – guardian and engi – should have access to the exact same types of skills and traits? Wouldn’t that mean they are basically the same profession with different appearances and animations?

They are supposed to be balanced, but that does not mean that all professions should have a condi clear every 10 seconds, or an aoe aegis-like block.

If you want access to skills and traits thats guardians have, then roll a frickin guardian instead of whining about what you don’t have on your engi.

calyx.9086:

tigirius.9014:

Yes which then removes conditions from everyone within range. And you’re still missing the point, where on the Engineer traits line is there an option for that? At best we have the ability to drop tiny elixirs or sometimes manage not to get stunned out of using our 3-4 button AOE heal or manually overcharge a turret before it’s destroyed in 2 seconds.

Are you really trying to say that two different professions – guardian and engi – should have access to the exact same types of skills and traits? Wouldn’t that mean they are basically the same profession with different appearances and animations?

They are supposed to be balanced, but that does not mean that all professions should have a condi clear every 10 seconds, or an aoe aegis-like block.

If you want access to skills and traits thats guardians have, then roll a frickin guardian instead of whining about what you don’t have on your engi.

Same trait choices yes if we are to believe that no class is left behind. IT will do nothing to make any class op over the other and will in fact balance the classes properly. I’ve given ample examples of how they can do this.

Also, it’s not whining to expect a company to deliver on their statements for their product. When they say that no class is left behind in combat that it doesn’t matter which class you bring to the battlefield I fully expect that to be a reality as a customer especially since it’s coming up on the 2 year mark. Not to mention that there isn’t even their own trinity in the game as it stands right now in PVE, CC is nonexistant against bosses and Support is focused on only two classes at the moment properly. If you spent the time checking my history you’d notice that there are plenty of suggestions over the past two years submitted to fix the problems that combat has in this title and you’d know that I already do have a max level guardian. Your name calling isn’t going to change the fact that balance doesn’t exist in this game, nor will it destroy my mature and valid point. Nice try tho.

tigirius.9014:

Same trait choices yes if we are to believe that no class is left behind. IT will do nothing to make any class op over the other and will in fact balance the classes properly. I’ve given ample examples of how they can do this.

Also, it’s not whining to expect a company to deliver on their statements for their product. When they say that no class is left behind in combat that it doesn’t matter which class you bring to the battlefield I fully expect that to be a reality as a customer especially since it’s coming up on the 2 year mark. Not to mention that there isn’t even their own trinity in the game as it stands right now in PVE, CC is nonexistant against bosses and Support is focused on only two classes at the moment properly. If you spent the time checking my history you’d notice that there are plenty of suggestions over the past two years submitted to fix the problems that combat has in this title and you’d know that I already do have a max level guardian. Your name calling isn’t going to change the fact that balance doesn’t exist in this game, nor will it destroy my mature and valid point. Nice try tho.

I won’t argue against your problems with CC. Support, on the other hand, is provided by all professions, not just one or two. Each profession brings a variety of support skills, be it blinds, aegis, aoe condition clears, reflects, or buffs for improved damage.

Some professions may be more desired than others in certain situations, and this is why you have the ability to level more than 1 character. Need reflects and protections? I bring a guardian. Need to stack might? I bring my ele. Need stealth and blinds? I bring my thief. You seem to desire professions that will allow you to sub out one profession for another without any noticeable effect, which is just ridiculous.

I don’t need to negate your “valid and mature point”, you do this quite well on your own. You rolled a jack-of-all-trades profession that isn’t going to excel in any one area (except vuln stacking) that is the engineer, and now are upset it can’t do the same things a guardian does. Puh-leeze.

I’m not quite sure what the point of a Solo Healer is. If your build is designed to dish out low amounts of damage while keeping yourself alive for a long period of time, why are you complaining about it taking FOREVER against a boss that is designed to take a while against a GROUP of people doing LOTS of damage?

Do you want some Mythical Healing skill that somehow ALSO does damage????

How could someone get this angry about their healing build not doing enough DPS…

The first time I tried Liadri I just hopped in with vigor shout build and a hammer. Was pretty crap for that fight. I didn’t come here and rage about it. I switched my traits and skills to condi buffs and endurence regen, put on some rabid masterworks and kited her with s/s impale. Problems need solutions, not complaints. Anet has made it way too easy to experiment and find builds that work, some games you can’t respec at all, let alone as many times as you want anywhere for free.

tigirius.9014:

Automated Response, Cleaning Formula 409 …
[/quote]

Neither Automated Response, nor Cleaning Formula 409 automatically take off any conditions on an interval system. Cleaning Formula 409 takes them off of you only when you give up all other skills to use all Elixirs manually (Or 1 time when you actually lose enough hitpoints for Hidden Flask to go off 1 time) and Automated Response only resets the cooldowns of said skills and don’t get me started on the uselessness of medkit even with traits compared to other classes.[/quote]They help you deal with conditions, don’t they? It doesn’t matter if it’s use is artificially confined to ‘automatic’, by that token, many other traited condition removals are not ‘automatic’ – it doesn’t mean they can’t be effective.

And duration reduction is very close to automatic removal, at least it applies to every condition, many traits for removal have a 10 second cooldown and remove one condition.

Those are automatic heals automatic means one doesn’t have to press any buttons IE the imbalance.

On the other hand, they don’t get to choose the moment, it removes a condition and then it goes on cooldown, it could remove a bleed while you’d perhaps rather use it to remove poison before your heal.

I´m pretty sure we are dealing with a troll here.

tigirius.9014:

Those are automatic heals automatic means one doesn’t have to press any buttons IE the imbalance. If one class has these options all classes should as far as traits are concerned if we are to believe that no class is left behind in combat or the idea that it doesn’t matter which classes we bring.

Well guardian can’t roll face on keyboard to apply almost every single condition in the game either.
Also absolute resolution has a very long cooldown for 3 condis removed. Engi gets 2 removed every 15s+passive from transmute. Yes, transmute is nothing impressive but it’s still something.

Dusty Moon.4382:

But, with the higher level veterans, your thief is a glass cannon and could be one hit by them (also the agro circle in Orr is massive).

Slight nit pick, but a dagger/pistol glass-cannon thief can pretty much face roll anything in Orr. Using smoke field plus auto attack will ensure than you hardly ever get hit, and even vets melt in a few seconds. The only mobs that are tricky are the vets that deal AOE condition damage, like risen giants.