Guild Wars 2

I’m curious… where exactly is it mentioned that Norn are stronger than humans?

Ykfox.3825:

I’m curious… where exactly is it mentioned that Norn are stronger than humans?

All the books (that deal with Norn) and a few quests in GW1.

Ykfox.3825:

I’m curious… where exactly is it mentioned that Norn are stronger than humans?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Movement_of_the_World#Norn

…warbands and smaller raiding parties could not overcome the individual strength of the Norn.

Among other places.

Dirven.3021:

We all know that based on lore, the humans are stronger than the Norn. But for the sake of gamebalance they are made equally as strong. But like someone said, the lore isn’t the same as what’s happening inside a game. So yeah Humans would definitely win, they are physically WAY stronger and also WAY more intelligent than the Norn.

Lore fail.

Belzebu.3912:

There was a similar topic a time ago about “Charr vs Norns war, who would win?” and the answer there would fit this one too.
In 1v1 Norn wins against any other main race, in several novels and texts they show that Norn is really strong, in the book Sea of Sorrows a norn could fight against 2~3 charr and still be on par in the fight.
In a proper war, the lack of army organization of the norn would be their doom, I’m pretty sure that any other race in war against the norn would win.

This is correct and a better TL;DR than I managed. Even so, it would be a very nasty war, the norn people wouldn’t go down without a fight.

It would be absolutely devastating for the “winner” of such a war. It just wouldn’t be worth such a cost.

Moreover, norn are fairly hospitable and kind to everybody if you don’t give them a reason otherwise. Who would want to go to war with them? What for?

The scenic arctic wastelands that every other race would have to work three times as hard to survive in? lol

I mean don’t get me wrong they have an allure and beauty in of themselves, but life there is very harsh.

None of the other major races are “native” to those parts that they should “want” those lands, much less humans as a whole that they should wage war for it with a people that they’ve been historically friendly with.

The premise of this thread does not follow.

A single Norn, especially their heroes, are unimaginably strong, but they don’t work together well. As has been stated a few times before, Norn would most likely win any duel with any of the other races.
In an organized war the Norn would have a hard time pulling through, lack of organization and cooperation would be their end, and those two things don’t just sprout up.

superpoopinater.7305:

A single Norn, especially their heroes, are unimaginably strong,

Yup.
Asgeir Dragonrender took off 1 of Jormag’s tooth in pretty much an 1v1 fight.

If we’re talking a completely fair fight, then having the same numbers is not the only thing that makes a fight fair. Two armies may have the same number of soldier, but if one army has tanks and the other has not, then its not fair. You cannot base a human vs norn fight on the notion that equal numbers equal a fair fight.

If we’re talking completely fair, the norn and humans would have the same armaments, and an equivalent number of people on each side to make a fair fight (so 2-3 humans per norn for example). And in this situation you are pitting intellect and numbers vs strength and stamina. Who would win in that? I would go with intellect myself, but the fact is, in the current situation, the fight would not be a fair one.

The humans are being beaten from all sides by many foes, while the norn only really have to worry about the sons. The human gods who helped them colonize Tyria are no longer here, while the norn can still call upon the spirits. And it’s also worth noting, that when the humans colonized they did not go as far as the norn territories, so we have no idea how the gods will have faired vs the spirits. The gods are very powerful, but so too are the spirits. 3-4 of them held off Jormag (1 died). The human gods may well have fled because they knew they had no chance of surviving the dragons ability to consume thier magic. Are the gods more powerful than the spirits? Only Anet knows that.

Like I said, its hard to say who would win, but in my opinion (as a player of predominantly humans, so I have no bias towards the norn), in the current world of Tyria my money is on the norn.

Who said anything about a fair fight? In Race vs Race, fairness isn’t part of the equation. It’s anything one side can bring to bare. Humans still have a few Watchwork Knights hanging around… literally.

lordkrall.7241:

Harper.4173:

If the humans attack there’s a lot of speculation that could be had – what if they use asura gates?
What if they use airships. The norn don’t have those.

Why would Humans have asura gates and airships but Norn wouldn’t?
None of them are human inventions after all.

Airships are derived from human air balloon technology. Humans actually have the technology required to build them more or less. And put cannons on them.
Norn could do the same but with a lot more effort since they have no manufacturing facilities in place.

The asura gates – i did write that hastily – they are available to both factions.

The Airships are based on Charr technology actually.
Where do humans have all these manufacturing facilities? I must have missed them.

lordkrall.7241:

The Airships are based on Charr technology actually.
Where do humans have all these manufacturing facilities? I must have missed them.

Yes you did miss them. Humans obviously manufactured them.

Dirven.3021:

Yes you did miss them. Humans obviously manufactured them.

Where?
It seems much more likely that the massive factories in the Charr-lands would be used.

lordkrall.7241:

Dirven.3021:

Yes you did miss them. Humans obviously manufactured them.

Where?
It seems much more likely that the massive factories in the Charr-lands would be used.

No they aren’t, the ones in divinity’s reach are used for it.

It’s unclear where Airships come from. The Aetherblades are Scarlet’s merging of Sky Pirates with Inquest. But since Season one comes after the formation of the Pact it’s possible that the Sky Pirates, which consist of all races (except Sylvari) might be Pact deserters. Of course the story of the Zephyrites suggests that the Sky Pirates were always a thing, we just never knew about them.

Since they still consist of all the non plant races, though, it’s unclear where the inspiration came from. Further more, it’s unclear within the Pact where the inspiration came from. Ultimately, though, I would say airships are a conglomerate technology, and not restricted to one race.

At best humans have hot air balloons, which aren’t very useful in wartime.

Humans as a society have the ability to mass-produce things. Not factories for building airships – but factories for building other things. It’s part of how their culture and civilization works.

Norn – as far as I know have forges and not much else.

The norn do not have armies.

That’s like asking “which fruit is better, oranges or potatoes?”.

It just doesn’t make any sense.

MithranArkanere.8957:

The norn do not have armies.

That’s like asking “which fruit is better, oranges or potatoes?”.

It just doesn’t make any sense.

Potato is obviously the better fruit.

From GW1 EOTN:

Player: Hey, you Norn-y type people. We need an army to fight The Great Destroyer or everything will be destroyed!

Norn: Ok. Here’s a hunting party of 6 Norn. That’ll do the job.

Player: ….

Rhyse.8179:

From GW1 EOTN:

Player: Hey, you Norn-y type people. We need an army to fight The Great Destroyer or everything will be destroyed!

Norn: Ok. Here’s a hunting party of 6 Norn. That’ll do the job.

Player: ….

And it was not easy to group that “army”

This is a fun one. Army vs army would take into account many factors.

Soldier vs Soldier: Norn. The bulk of physical professions (ranger, warrior, guardian) would be stronger for the Norn. I can assume (from my intel of not really being a norn for too long) that their mental strength is fairly even with humans, which pits their magic users (necro, ele, mesmer) and enginners at the same level.

Army vs Army: depends on where the battle is.
The outcome of this battle depends on where it is fought.

Outside Lion’s Arch: If it is fought outside lion’s arch then humans may take the victory based on numbers and flanking directions. Lion’s Arch to the south still has a fairly sizable population and Divinity’s Reach to the northwest has a mostly unscathed population, with more humans spread out between the two on the west. If the Norn wanted to win a battle with the humans here they would need to enlist the help of the charr from the east.

At Divinity’s Reach: This would certainly go to the humans. The combination of a large castle, urban combat, and reinforcements from Lions Arch would make an assault on DR a stupid idea. The norn would have to get help from the centaurs and charr for the assault to succeed.

Anywhere in the shiverpeaks: The norn would take the victory anywhere in the shiverpeaks. The humans are not adapted to the cold like they are. It would be like every time someone tried to invade Russia. They went home with half of their army as Popsicles. The mountains would claim most of the kills for the battle and likely open the door for a norn counter attack.

In all cases should a conflict arise the charr would easily join the Norn’s side, along with the centaurs who would just be using the conflict to get rid of humans. The asura would probably stay out of it unless directly attacked and the sylvari as well would stay out of it.

Kal Spiro.9745:

It’s unclear where Airships come from.

No it’s not. They are made by the pact through a combination of Asura, Charr and Human technology (as stated by Trahearne in one of the personal story steps). The Aetherblade airships, at least the first batch, were stolen from the pact (and then, presumably, reverse engineered).

Outside Lion’s Arch: If it is fought outside lion’s arch then humans may take the victory based on numbers and flanking directions. Lion’s Arch to the south still has a fairly sizable population and Divinity’s Reach to the northwest has a mostly unscathed population, with more humans spread out between the two on the west. If the Norn wanted to win a battle with the humans here they would need to enlist the help of the charr from the east.

The humans of Lion’s Arch are not citizens of Kryta. Besides, Lion’s Arch is not a human city, it is a city with members of all races.

Simple answer: Humans.

Reason: Less drunk.

Diovid.9506:

Kal Spiro.9745:

It’s unclear where Airships come from.

No it’s not. They are made by the pact through a combination of Asura, Charr and Human technology (as stated by Trahearne in one of the personal story steps). The Aetherblade airships, at least the first batch, were stolen from the pact (and then, presumably, reverse engineered).

Still unclear “where.” In the literal sense. The only mass production facilities shown in game are at the Black Citadel, but that’s not a Pact facility. I suppose we can assume they were built at Fort Trinity until an official explanation comes along.

humans would crush the Norn, imagine Norn trying to siege DR. Knut whitebear would just stand at the gate with a longsword autoattacking the DR gate without sucesss. The humans have way more people with magical skill. 10000x meteorshowers says hello. Hoelbrak as very poor defenses, no proper city walls even.

Imagine a legion of 50000 seraph/Ministry guard/shining blade backed by 10000 elementalists, 5000 mesmers and 500 necros.

Diovid.9506:

Kal Spiro.9745:

It’s unclear where Airships come from.

No it’s not. They are made by the pact through a combination of Asura, Charr and Human technology (as stated by Trahearne in one of the personal story steps). The Aetherblade airships, at least the first batch, were stolen from the pact (and then, presumably, reverse engineered).

According to lore, the first airships where made by the Charr, period.
So its very clear where they came from.

Sure the Pact later made more and improved them (then Aetherblades stole some), but the point was that they arent Human specific technology that would be used against the Norn. If we assume that, then we assume that the Pact would join the battle. Which would be a mess.

You guys keep forgetting the almighty power of Ale and drunk berserker-rage Norns.

If in doubt watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZmyPtlQWZc

1:25 mark
That’s a hunter, fearsome warrior and a very mobile siege weapon in one package. Rock half the size would splatter dozens of humans easily. Norn may not have an army, but they are hunters, which is why they would probably turn war versus humans into guerrilla warfare.

Predator vs Humans turned out really well for puny meat sacks.

So basically…

Ironman vs. The Hulk: who would win?

Oh My God.8423:

So basically…

Ironman vs. The Hulk: who would win?

But everyone knows that The Hulk would win?

EremiteAngel.9765:

if you look at the foodchain in this world, human is at the top because they have the highest IQ.

Yet the Charr retook Ascalon from the Humans, and Orr was sunk to avoid the same fate.

Both the Norn, Sylvari and Asura have all managed to carve out pieces of the world for themselves, but the Human race has become more and more confined.

I’m not buying your claim. If humans are so clever, a load of feral cats and their false gods should not have been able to breach the wall all those years ago, no?

Dawdler.8521:

Oh My God.8423:

So basically…

Ironman vs. The Hulk: who would win?

But everyone knows that The Hulk would win?

Wait…

I revise my claim:

Nick Fury and/or Black Widow vs. The Hulk: who would win?

Human would probably play dirty to outmaneuver the Norns. It would be done probably not by technology alone or any forms of direct physical confrontation but by politics or other cunning tactics instead.

So, my take is that Human will win and will be so even before needing to summon an army to the battle field.

Sarie.1630:

EremiteAngel.9765:

if you look at the foodchain in this world, human is at the top because they have the highest IQ.

Yet the Charr retook Ascalon from the Humans, and Orr was sunk to avoid the same fate.

Both the Norn, Sylvari and Asura have all managed to carve out pieces of the world for themselves, but the Human race has become more and more confined.

I’m not buying your claim. If humans are so clever, a load of feral cats and their false gods should not have been able to breach the wall all those years ago, no?

Also dont forget the main flaw of the Human IQ – it exponentially drops the more people there are in one place. A few Norns will still have the advantage of a Human army. Yes, even when they are drunk as all kitten.

Also dont forget the main flaw of the Human IQ – it exponentially drops the more people there are in one place. ….

So… what you are saying is that Humans are the reverse of Skritt?

Oh My God.8423:

Also dont forget the main flaw of the Human IQ – it exponentially drops the more people there are in one place. ….

So… what you are saying is that Humans are the reverse of Skritt?

Think about it. Justin Bieber, man… Justin Bieber…

Zergs.9715:

Oh My God.8423:

Also dont forget the main flaw of the Human IQ – it exponentially drops the more people there are in one place. ….

So… what you are saying is that Humans are the reverse of Skritt?

Think about it. Justin Bieber, man… Justin Bieber…

Then imagine 100 of him. Yep, definetly reverse Skritts.

EremiteAngel.9765:

if you are talking about physical superiority, charr wins hands down.

but charrs are dumb.

if you look at the foodchain in this world, human is at the top because they have the highest IQ.

its the same here.

Human has more mental capacity than all other races.

I’m sure you’ve meant “Asura master race has the highest IQ in GW2, therefore they are the superior race”.

Dawdler.8521:

Oh My God.8423:

So basically…

Ironman vs. The Hulk: who would win?

But everyone knows that The Hulk would win?

Glad you mentioned The Avengers. About the humans having an organised army while the norn haven’t.
In the new film, Ultron is a highly organised system and expects to win against the chaotic Avengers (as he puts it). He loses.However, this is merely fiction. My bet is still whichever army (formal or informal: because the norn CAN work together) uses their qualities better (being those more planned or improvised).