I don’t know who decided to put jumping puzzles in an MMORPG, but it wasn’t a good idea. They can stay, for casual players that like content like that, but the requirement to do them must be removed from what’s needed to complete a zone. I haven’t found any that I wasn’t able to do, but some of them were just purely annoying, and felt like a waste of time, as I was not enjoying it at all, but needed them for the zone completion and the exp that comes along with that
The worst, and most time consuming one I found was one in the South of Dredgehaunt Cliffs, which took me almost 15 minutes to do. This sort of thing just doesn’t belong in an MMO
I’ve done 100% map completion and there is really only 2 HARD vistas required. I don’t remember where they are, but you get achievements when you get them. They take a good 10-15 minutes IF you know what your doing and don’t miss jumps. I believe you did one of them already.
The majority take less than 30 seconds to complete, with a couple taking 2 minutes or so to figure out.
I think they are fine where they are, the actual hard puzzles are not required.
Do you understand what map completion means?
It means that you have explored and completed everything there is on that map.
If you haven’t gotten all the vistas, then you haven’t explored the entire map and don’t deserve 100%.
It’s really simple.
Quick Edit: If I had it my way, I’d make jumping puzzles part of map completion as well for the same reason listed above.
Sure, but remove them from the requirements of zone completion. As stated in my OP
I hate to say it, but I’m a completionist.
How would I know that there is stuff left to do unless the game somehow tells me I have stuff left to do?
Perhaps a separate category for vistas/jumping puzzles? If they did that then you could get “zone completions” but you’d still have an uncompleted stat for something else (the vistas/jumping puzzles stat).
Just sayin’.
I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather. Not screaming like the people in his car.
I don’t mind most vistas, but when vista and jumping puzzle is one and the same (ie. you get a puzzle achievement from doing the vista as well) it goes bit too far. For example the wall scaling in Diessa Plateau.
Most “normal” vistas are easy, and short.
Edit: for above post, jumping puzzles have their own achievements, I think they are under the exploration tab. I am a fan of jumping puzzles myself, but some of them are simply so complicated that it is hard to think they are suitable for world completion, but like I said most vista’s are not classified as jumping puzzles.
Map completion is in no way a requirement, it is simply another goal for people who choose to do it.
Exploration is a big part of this game, and map COMPLETION should mean that you have done everything a map has to offer, which includes exploring. I really like vistas nd I look forward to completing them all.
I disagree. Not found any vista that was hard to get to, once you worked out the right way to get up there. I like that we have to develop our spacial awareness for these jumping puzzles, and it adds a new interesting element to the game/genre.
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I don’t mind most vistas, but when vista and jumping puzzle is one and the same (ie. you get a puzzle achievement from doing the vista as well) it goes bit too far. For example the wall scaling in Diessa Plateau.
That’s the other one I was talking about.
There are only 2 of them that are that hard required for 100%, the rest are far easier. However, the other one is much harder.
The actual jumping puzzles (non-vista) are so much harder than vistas. Some of them take 2-3 hours, but they are 100% optional.
I wouldn’t like that very much. They’re a fun part of exploring and taking them out of map completion would make players lose incentive to explore as much.
I think there is a massive jump between most vistas and the jumping puzzles.
I can’t do the jumping puzzles. I was the girl back in WoW that thought the hardest part of the Wailing Caverns Dungeon was that small gap you had to leap over. In this game I am not even a little bit close in this game to completing a jumping puzzle. However, the vast majority of the vistas are ones that even someone with my very limited ability can get to as it is simply running to the correct point and perhaps making a few very small jumps. A lot require no use of the jump button at all.
There are some however, that I believe should be moved. An achievement sure! Some fun thing up there cool but 100% zone completion linked to these more complicated vistas perhaps should be removed. I did spend over an hour getting one vista and while the sense of achievement getting it was grand, I think it was more luck then skill!
I think the vistas show you have explored the map as well as completed the heart quests. So do not remove just ensure they concentrate on exploring not jumping.
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One can get most vistas without doing a jumping puzzle, and most jumping puzzles are not required to get the map complete. I like how ArenaNet did it (compared to how BioWare did their Datacrons in SWTOR), but maybe it is just because the jumping physics in GW2 are not that painful.
Gwenya Drudenfusz [Boon], Norn Mesmer on Desolation
I am displeased with the vistas that go through a jumping puzzle. I’m a char, and it’s pretty difficult judging where it’s going to jump and when it starts, etc… They’re aggravating and irritating, and I despise them. I’ve had to walk away from a couple because the jumping was so difficult to gauge.
Keep vistas, they are great feature. If you dont want to do them, just live with not having 100% completion. What about people who dont like hearts? or PoIs?….
Keep vistas, they are great feature. If you dont want to do them, just live with not having 100% completion. What about people who dont like hearts? or PoIs?….
Quests are a normal part of MMOs, so the Hearts are fine, and the points of interest only require you to walk to a certain part of the map, so I doubt anyone cares about that
Keep Vistas fro 100%, don’t add jump puzzles, not because therye too hard but because I’d like to keep them secretive as opposed to having hordes of players constantly flocking through them complaining about difficulty
I like vistas but think they should give you more of a benefit besides just a pretty view. You are so high up, why not reveal some of the map around that area? I also think if you mouse over a POI it should give you a little lore blurb about WHY it’s a point of interest.
I don’t see why it’s different than POI or hearts. Honestly I’m not a fan of most hearts, but if I want map completion I have to do them.
“Please find my dear friends… Dead or Alive” -redmakoto
Keep vistas, they are great feature. If you dont want to do them, just live with not having 100% completion. What about people who dont like hearts? or PoIs?….
Quests are a normal part of MMOs, so the Hearts are fine, and the points of interest only require you to walk to a certain part of the map, so I doubt anyone cares about that
Most vistas don’t even require anything but hitting space 2 or 3 times. Can’t do that? Your problem. Like anyone really needs 100%.
Keep vistas, they are great feature. If you dont want to do them, just live with not having 100% completion. What about people who dont like hearts? or PoIs?….
Quests are a normal part of MMOs, so the Hearts are fine, and the points of interest only require you to walk to a certain part of the map, so I doubt anyone cares about that
Most vistas don’t even require anything but hitting space 2 or 3 times. Can’t do that? Your problem. Like anyone really needs 100%.
Is that a joke?
You’ve clearly not been to certain zones with more precarious vistas
I bet people said that real-time dodging didn’t belong in MMOs either. Back when WoW was about to come out, I remember people saying that they might as well be giving warriors spells, since in Everquest all they had was attack and shield bash, and now they were getting all these fun abilities.
I don’t know who decided to put jumping puzzles in an MMORPG, but it wasn’t a good idea. They can stay, for casual players that like content like that, but the requirement to do them must be removed from what’s needed to complete a zone. I haven’t found any that I wasn’t able to do, but some of them were just purely annoying, and felt like a waste of time, as I was not enjoying it at all, but needed them for the zone completion and the exp that comes along with that
The worst, and most time consuming one I found was one in the South of Dredgehaunt Cliffs, which took me almost 15 minutes to do. This sort of thing just doesn’t belong in an MMO
Vistas are NOT jumping puzzles, they are 2 seperate things. But aside from that, nothing is really forcing you to take the vistas, nobody fault if you have to find everything. Some people do enjoy the views and like the vistas, no reason to take those away just because you personally don’t enjoy it.
And no, I don’t really care too much for the vistas themselves either, I like the view as I walk around, but I see no reason to not have them.
I don’t see why you would want to remove Vistas from map completion….they’re amazing! I like the views you get from them…..
At least they didn’t make it so you had to the jumping puzzles to get 100%….Then you would really be butthurt….
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Xapp IggÍx – Engineer
Guild Officer of [TB] The Betrayed (Sea Of Sorrows)
I don’t know who decided to put jumping puzzles in an MMORPG, but it wasn’t a good idea. They can stay, for casual players that like content like that, but the requirement to do them must be removed from what’s needed to complete a zone. I haven’t found any that I wasn’t able to do, but some of them were just purely annoying, and felt like a waste of time, as I was not enjoying it at all, but needed them for the zone completion and the exp that comes along with that
The worst, and most time consuming one I found was one in the South of Dredgehaunt Cliffs, which took me almost 15 minutes to do. This sort of thing just doesn’t belong in an MMO
I don’t know who decided to put Charr in an MMORPG, but it wasn’t a good idea. They can stay, for casual players that like content like that, but the requirement to do Charr-given renown hearts must be removed from what’s needed to complete a zone. I haven’t found any that I wasn’t able to do, but some of them were just purely annoying, and felt like a waste of time, as I was not enjoying it at all, but needed them for the zone completion and the exp that comes along with that
The worst, and most time consuming one I found was one in the South of the Plains of Ashford, which took me almost 15 minutes to do. This sort of thing just doesn’t belong in an MMO
My turret is so much better at this game than I am.
I don’t know who decided to put jumping puzzles in an MMORPG, but it wasn’t a good idea. They can stay, for casual players that like content like that, but the requirement to do them must be removed from what’s needed to complete a zone. I haven’t found any that I wasn’t able to do, but some of them were just purely annoying, and felt like a waste of time, as I was not enjoying it at all, but needed them for the zone completion and the exp that comes along with that
The worst, and most time consuming one I found was one in the South of Dredgehaunt Cliffs, which took me almost 15 minutes to do. This sort of thing just doesn’t belong in an MMO
Vistas are NOT jumping puzzles, they are 2 seperate things. But aside from that, nothing is really forcing you to take the vistas, nobody fault if you have to find everything. Some people do enjoy the views and like the vistas, no reason to take those away just because you personally don’t enjoy it.
And no, I don’t really care too much for the vistas themselves either, I like the view as I walk around, but I see no reason to not have them.
Thumbs up. I wish there were a “like” button for reasonable opinions.
Personally, I love the vistas, but that’s just me. I’m also a big fan of AC2 though.
The one thing I would add is that the vistas provide a great mechanism to show how much effort and love the world designers put into the game. The world design (environments, npcs and voiced conversation) are what really set the game apart. It’s not completely like the RL, but it feels like some gave it a little breath of life.
Personally, I was a little disappointed at the ease of some of the vistas. There have been several times where I thought “This would have been so much cooler if they’d put the entrance path over there, and made me do a jump puzzle through this area.”
I did find getting to some of the Vistas was so very hard to get to.
I think some of them are very hard for people who hasn’t play with game systems.
I had some of my guild mates just total quit and uninstall the game over they getting so very upset about getting to come of the Vistas over having to go through a jumping game to get to them.
I happen to like them but I can also see why they should be made a little more easy to get to.. Or maybe they just need to be removed off Zone finishing and maybe make it something extra if you want to take time to finish them.
I know of 3 people that have total quit the game over just the Vista. They loved the game but just get so mad about them too..
I’ve done very little map completion: Lion’s Arch, Divinity’s Reach, the Grove, Rata Sum, Metrica Province and Queensdale. I thoroughly enjoyed getting map completion for those areas.
On the other hand, I’m horrible at jumping puzzles. Bad coordination, and don’t like heights in real life (in game heights sometimes give me the jibblies too). So I don’t plan to do many jumping puzzles.
I do appreciate vistas, and I love that they’re part of zone completion. I would not be sad if vistas were all completely separate from jumping puzzles — it sounds like there are some that are blurring the line, though I haven’t encountered any of those yet myself.
So if there are any vistas that require too much jumping… I guess I just won’t complete that zone. This is not a problem, and even though I don’t like jumping puzzles, I don’t think anything needs to change.
What’s with people today wanting instant gratification? If you’re having difficulty with some of the jumps, just keep practicing. I’ve had problems with some vistas but I kept trying and always end up getting them. The POIs and vistas are not going anywhere. If you can’t get to a particular one just leave and try another one, or take a break and try later. Besides, the harder they are to get, the most satisfying it feels when you finally manage to get them.
The worst, and most time consuming one I found was one in the South of Dredgehaunt Cliffs, which took me almost 15 minutes to do. This sort of thing just doesn’t belong in an MMO
You’re playing the wrong game then.
Every game has it’s own rules. Each game has its own style. Not every MMO is the same.
Just because you say it doesn’t belong, doesn’t make it true.
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I don’t know who decided to put jumping puzzles in an MMORPG, but it wasn’t a good idea. They can stay, for casual players that like content like that, but the requirement to do them must be removed from what’s needed to complete a zone. I haven’t found any that I wasn’t able to do, but some of them were just purely annoying, and felt like a waste of time, as I was not enjoying it at all, but needed them for the zone completion and the exp that comes along with that
The worst, and most time consuming one I found was one in the South of Dredgehaunt Cliffs, which took me almost 15 minutes to do. This sort of thing just doesn’t belong in an MMO
I initially agreed with you as I read this thread. But, the sense of accomplishment was an amazing feeling to me. However, I remember some of the Vistas are so hard I’d break my wrist and/or keyboard trying to jump to the top.
I’ve done 100% map completion and there is really only 2 HARD vistas required. I don’t remember where they are, but you get achievements when you get them. They take a good 10-15 minutes IF you know what your doing and don’t miss jumps. I believe you did one of them already.
The majority take less than 30 seconds to complete, with a couple taking 2 minutes or so to figure out.
I think they are fine where they are, the actual hard puzzles are not required.
The reason those vistas are hard is because they are actually part of jump puzzles (why you get the achievement for them). I did the one in the charr area and it was brutal took me a good 30+ minutes to get up there. At the end I was rewarded with a vista and a skill point, but seriously I don’t think that one should be required for map completion. It wasn’t fun…it was just frustrating. I know some people like the jump puzzles and that’s cool, but please keep the vistas simple at least. I hate jump puzzles.
I did find getting to some of the Vistas was so very hard to get to.
I think some of them are very hard for people who hasn’t play with game systems.
I had some of my guild mates just total quit and uninstall the game over they getting so very upset about getting to come of the Vistas over having to go through a jumping game to get to them.
I happen to like them but I can also see why they should be made a little more easy to get to.. Or maybe they just need to be removed off Zone finishing and maybe make it something extra if you want to take time to finish them.
I know of 3 people that have total quit the game over just the Vista. They loved the game but just get so mad about them too..
Just adding my two cents to this.
Surely nobody quit just because of the vistas, definitely not if they loved the rest of the game seeing how vistas are completely optional! And almost all of the vistas are really easy to get to.
why would someone quit something they really liked just because there was something optional added to it that they have no reason to do if they don’t want to.
It’s almost like saying someone quit because the game has PvP and they don’t want to do anything but PvE. Or say PvP should not have achievements since they don’t like PvP.. See it makes no sense, it’s an optional part of the game so ignore it if you don’t like it, seriously.
Some of the jumping puzzles to get to the Vistas are a pain. Even so, I don’t want that requirement removed from map completion. Otherwise it would just be too easy.
Dungeons should also be removed from the game and gear tokens should rain from the skies above Lion’s Arch.
Too much to ask for, we should just ‘click together’ our gear right from the start. You can’t expect people to go ALL THE WAY to lions arch. Seriously, who do you think you are?
Okay, enough with the irony (better state here that it was irony, before someone thinks, I’m a bad person -.-)
I have no idea whats wrong with putting a bit of a challenge to zone completion. As stated before, it’s nowhere near neccessary to do it. You want it? Then DO SOMETHING FOR IT. Just because most games nowadays shove everything up your * doesn’t mean, GW2 has to do that as well.
And it’s really not that hard to do them. I am playing a charr mainly myself and had no issue till now to estimate where I start and land when I have to jump. It takes a bit to get used to it, but as long as you are willing to adapt YOURSELF (not the game), you will be perfectly fine.
I love the vistas. A BIT of a challenge sometimes and nice view as well.
I don’t know who decided to put jumping puzzles in an MMORPG, but it wasn’t a good idea.
I know this isnt a Q/A question but the answer to your rhetorical question is “A Genius”. A lot of us who have been playing MMOs for over a decade are here because they are giving us more than the “go run this raid/dungeon”. We want a variety of content. Content that is not based around one ideal like the copycat games have done for the last eight years.
Some of us grew up on EQ, FFXI, Ultima Online and DAoC where exploration and open world adventure was the norm. Vistas give us part of this back. Not all, but here’s to hoping they add those promised things like Treasure Maps, Flags, and more Activities (and soon).
Keep the Vistas the way they are. Getting 100% completion of a zone is not a requirement for beating and enjoying the game. It’s completely optional. If you don’t enjoy getting the Vistas then don’t do it. No one is forcing you to and they are plenty of fun for those of us that don’t have a problem with it.
