Guild Wars 2

Keep them as they are, for reasons as already stated by most of the above posters.

Ganadorf.3460:

I don’t know who decided to put jumping puzzles in an MMORPG, but it wasn’t a good idea. They can stay, for casual players that like content like that, but the requirement to do them must be removed from what’s needed to complete a zone. I haven’t found any that I wasn’t able to do, but some of them were just purely annoying, and felt like a waste of time, as I was not enjoying it at all, but needed them for the zone completion and the exp that comes along with that

The worst, and most time consuming one I found was one in the South of Dredgehaunt Cliffs, which took me almost 15 minutes to do. This sort of thing just doesn’t belong in an MMO

15 min is nothing. Try the star wars MMO that started the whole thing. Some of their puzzles literally took me days to complete. You heard me right. Days! As in actual real life days! >_<

The problem was that some of them were just insanely hard and I think there was two or more where you had to wait hours for the platform you needed to jump on to reach you and if you missed it you would have to wait a few more hours for it to come around again. I’m talking like 6 hours for one of them…

Oh and the puzzles gave permanent stat boosts. So you really couldn’t just pass them up if you wanted your character to be the best they could be.

Keep it as is. None of the vistas are even that hard to get to.

Ganadorf.3460:

I don’t know who decided to put jumping puzzles in an MMORPG, but it wasn’t a good idea.

These (extremely easy to get) Vistas and the jumping puzzles(not so easy, lol) are EXACTLY the kind of stuff MMOs need more of these days.

Manwoods.4012:

I did find getting to some of the Vistas was so very hard to get to.

I think some of them are very hard for people who hasn’t play with game systems.

I had some of my guild mates just total quit and uninstall the game over they getting so very upset about getting to come of the Vistas over having to go through a jumping game to get to them.

I happen to like them but I can also see why they should be made a little more easy to get to.. Or maybe they just need to be removed off Zone finishing and maybe make it something extra if you want to take time to finish them.

I know of 3 people that have total quit the game over just the Vista. They loved the game but just get so mad about them too..

Just adding my two cents to this.

No offence but your friends are morons. To uninstall a game simply because something was a bit difficult for them to do is absurd. It’s akin to throwing a temper-tantrum.

I see absolutely no reason to make vistas easier or taking them off of the requirement for zone completion. What is wrong with this generation of gamers? Why do they think everything must be easy mode?

First they complain about quivers not being in game(its emersion breaking and not realistic, really and cat-people/plant-people/house elves from harry potter is realistic?).

Then they complain about having to walk/run everywhere(must have mounts… must have mounts).

Oh then there is the complaints of people having low prices on the TP. Really who are you to tell others what price they set for their stuff? Not your call.

Then I heard some complaints of every class someone is not playing being OP.

And now vistas being too hard etc… so on and so forth. Seriously people, enough with the petty issues. We all knew exactly what we were getting when we bought the game. Least I did. Not everyone elses fault you didn’t research the game in it’s entirity. I mean there is no sub to pay for, and we get so much for free. Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.

If you want an easy button.. go play WoW or SWTOR. It might be more to your liking.

*Note: Most of what I posted was not dirrected at the person I quoted… it’s dirrected to the friggin entitlists, that think everything should be their way or the highway.

You are rewarding so shallowly for completing a zone, why should you care? I enjoy jumping puzzles and vistas. Having them count towards zone completion helps immerse you into the game, challenging you to climb mountains on your quest to map out every point of a zone.

This is a long thread of blathering on about “it’s to difficult”, “it shouldn’t be needed”, “it takes to long”. Not one person mentioned the amazing ART work that someone (more than 1 someone) put into making the cut scenes for those vistas.

Personally, I think they’re amazing. The difficulty level should mimic the amount of time that went into creating the beautiful vistas that they’re showing us.

I don’t know how anyone can even write out “they should be removed from map completion”. Sorry artwork people, no one cares about your beautiful art here! /end sarcasm -.-"

Drudenfusz.2971:

One can get most vistas without doing a jumping puzzle.

You know what has repeatedly annoyed me, though? Vistas that look like jumping puzzles.. but aren’t. The vistas where you can painstakingly jump halfway up to where you want to be, and then you fall off, and try again, and again, and get stuck, and scratch your head, and poke around for ten minutes.. and then discover that if you approach from the other direction, it’s a leisurely stroll up a gentle hill to the vista.

Swear they put those fake jumping puzzles in just to annoy us.

Be thankful jumping puzzles aren’t required >.>;

I have a short fuse when it comes to puzzles and my mood needs to be right to actually care about doing them.Maybe Im just too old for puzzles and stuff (44).

Having said that,the small puzzle vistas and stuff in GW 2 aren’t all that hard,but the moment I’ve spent more than 30 seconds on one,I’m out of there asap and doing something more productive with my time. lol

I have to agree. Along with getting rid of vista’s it would be also nice to remove way points, skill challenges and areas of interests.

also I love the jumping puzzles. If you can’t do them get a Mesmer friend to create the portals… or don’t do them at all. I don’t see why my game has to be changed by your wants.

If you cant do them, make friends with a mesmer who can!

Anyone want a run through the wvwvw dungeon one? Selling mesmer portal tours here!

BAZiiNGA.7089:

Do you understand what map completion means?
It means that you have explored and completed everything there is on that map.
If you haven’t gotten all the vistas, then you haven’t explored the entire map and don’t deserve 100%.

It’s really simple.

Quick Edit: If I had it my way, I’d make jumping puzzles part of map completion as well for the same reason listed above.

Agree.

daemonlama.5413:

LOL people will seriously complain about anything. Not sure to laugh or cry.

yeah, that’s exactly what I thought.
Not to be rude, but … seriously? So because you personally don’t like them they should be removed? If you don’t want to explore 100% of the map then that is fine, don’t do it. But don’t expect the game to give you credit for 100% map completion then.
I remember the good ol’ times when in GW1 you had to walk the map edges to gain 100% map completion. THAT was annoying.

Honestly, I find the vistas and jumping puzzles one of the most amazing ideas in the game. It seems to me like you are complaining that you actually have to do something besides bashing brains in to gain map completion – but exploring is a big part of the game, anet always stated that.

I wish map completion wasn’t needed to enjoy the game. Oh, wait , it isn’t.

Stop letting numbers dictate what you do and just play the game the way you enjoy. Isn’t that what you bought the game for? To have fun? So, if something isn’t fun, don’t do it.

To be honest, I was afraid we’d fall into one of these “number-driven” situations when Arena Net decided to add the concept of “map completion”. Not only do some people complain that they shouldn’t be “forced” to do [insert the part they have trouble with] to get the “100%”, and not only does it fill map chat with people asking and telling others how to get to the POIs / Vistas / etc. (why buy a game and then ask someone else to play it for you? and why give spoilers in public chat?), but a lot of other people just rush through the “map completion” checklist and think they’ve seen everything in that zone, although they missed 90% of the events.

This is going to lead to a lot of people thinking they’ve “run out of content” because all their zone maps are at “100%”.

Solirus.1754:

Keep the Vistas the way they are. Getting 100% completion of a zone is not a requirement for beating and enjoying the game. It’s completely optional. If you don’t enjoy getting the Vistas then don’t do it. No one is forcing you to and they are plenty of fun for those of us that don’t have a problem with it.

I totally agree.

It’s just like those annoying people that complain about a TV program, they don’t like… Don’t watch it then!

Personally I really like the Vistas in the game, it’s something else to do. I wouldn’t describe them as puzzles anyway as they are really not that hard, quite obvious really, “how do i get up there? oh yeah jump up this wall”.

<3 vistas.

sup.

imho SHOULD HAVE TWICE AS MANY BEFORE 100%

I like the vistas. It makes the zone completion feel that much more rewarding when you have the vistas under your belt.

Vistas are fine… and many of the old school MMOs had jumping puzzles in them.

I really hate some vista points and mostly jumping puzzles because my fps are around 10-15 normally. But still, I wanna try and achieve the best I can, and try, try again and again. I tried 7 times for an easy vista point, with people laughing at me because I wasn’t able to jump on a single far rock. I don’t mind, and you shouldn’t too. If you really want to achieve the best (100% completition map) you have to accept the fact that things aren’t easy to get, you cannot simply go there and “yah, got it”. You have to work for it and really, 15mins for a vista point is really nothing if it permits you to get your 100% world completition nearer Good luck and enjoy fights.

Keep the vistas as they are. The only one I’ve done where you have to do a proper jumping puzzle to get the vista so far is Tribulation Rift.

You want world completion? Complete the godkittenworld. You can’t have the world completed yet you have 130 vistas you’ve yet to visit.

leave them as they are… the really hard jumping puzzles have good loot at the end of them (or strawberrys)

Jumping puzzles for casuals? god I hate the arrogance of people making statements like that. So because you don’t do jumping puzzles you are “hardcore”? please. I have seen super mario players that are far more hard core than any mmo raider/ so called hardcore players. My opinion on the vistas is: if you are a completionist you will do the vistas because you have a need to explore all the things and see everything there is. Map completion is a reward for exploration and in no way mandatory. If you just want the easy loot…….well, tough really ^^.

And in any case…..seriously the very worst vistas in the map take like 10 minutes tops to figure out and get (that’s if you’re not using google or something to do them) so…. oh and need the experience from the map completion? Really?

You want 100% map completion without completing the map? I don’t meant this rudely, but that’s ridiculous. A vista is a particularly beautiful view, you can’t say you’ve completely explored an area when you haven’t seen the most beautiful scenery in the area.

The vista’s aren’t hard and the map completion is fast and easy to do. If you think this is boring and time consuming you should give GW1 map scraping a try! You had to clear your way through the mobs of entire zones scraping around every corner of every rock, often gaining map completion in increments of less than 1%. Also the in-game progress bar just told you what percentage of that continent you were missing. It didn’t tell you which zones the undiscovered parts were in.

Leave the vistas as they are please!

I disagree. Vistas are a nice change of pace and I LOVE the jumping puzzle vistas. I dont see any reason to remove vistas as opposed to POIs. Of course vistas require patience and strategy at times….which are rarely required in the remainder of this game (cant speak for high end, I am only level 27 at present). I dont see any reason to remove vistas from the completion requirement. Stop asking for the game ot be made easier. It is already painfully easy.

Kana.6793:

You want 100% map completion without completing the map? I don’t meant this rudely, but that’s ridiculous.

I really hate this as an argument because you aren’t required even now to explore 100% of a map to actually get map completion. I’m not in either camp on this one. Vistas I don’t mind except the ones that are part of complex jumping puzzles. Anet wanted map completion to be something that anyone could do though as long as they put the effort. It was never meant to be something “elite”. They expected most of the player base at 80 to complete the map casually at their own pace. I really wish people would stop acting as if removing a vista would somehow make it any easier than it already is or that they might as well remove POIs or some other such nonesense. Map completion was never meant to be difficult just time consuming.

There are only a few vistas that are hard to get to. Noone requires you to go for the zone completions, you could as well argue remove this or that hard to reach POI or difficult “hearts”. Leave the people who enjoy exploring their reward, I cannot see an entitlement to rewards other people like to work hard for. And the random rewards are not even staggering.

Note that there ARE three jumping puzzles you must complete in order to complete a map, due to a Vista or another map completion element (like the skill point in Vizier’s Tower) being on top of them.

These are Wall Breach Blitz in Diessa Plateau, Vizier’s Tower in the Straits of Devestation, and Tribulation Rift Scaffolding in Dredgehaunt Cliffs.

Note that the chest and achievement in Tribulation Rift Scaffolding can be missed since you can jump across to the vista, without getting onto the final platform where the chest is.

Most of the general vistas aren’t too difficult, but a few have tricky spots where you must land exactly right. These may require a bit of practice (I have particular trouble with a Charr character, since it’s harder to tell where you’re going to land), but generally take much less time to complete than a “true” jumping puzzle.

Stop being lazy and explore more

I have complete faith in ANET to not bow down and give in to alot of these entitled/me me me complaints.

What is in game now, were things they were always open about during development. I feel that ANET is smart enough to see through it all. And will stand by what they created. Which is an awesome game.

i am not a big fan of Vistas. i dont mind having to get them but ones requiring “jumping” or other wise “skill” with extremely poor camera angels and large norn characters is obsurb. the one in question, is in “tribulation rift” as it requires “near” perfect keyboard movement and good field of vision to execute properly. but, what i also didnt read, is that some players, such as myself, are hindered by disablitlies and some actions are not possible or make certain “motions” difficult and that, detracts from the game, period. it forces a person to stop playing because of a limitation, of no fault of their own, but a design flaw, intended or not. and “Yeah” if i want to complete a map, well thats “my” choice, not anyone elses and i dont think i should be chastised for “not” being able to “complete” a vista due to difficulty level involving a “puzzle” . …………………..as far as puzzles, go, i am glad they are there for those who enjoy them, i , do not . IMHO

Ok, just beat the one in Dredgehaunt cliffs – yes, I would consider that a jumping puzzle, was quite frustrating at times. But I felt oh so accomplished when I finally made it

Please keep them in, I love vistas, and even though I’m rather bad at jumping puzzles, I quite like those.

YARDDOG.9375:

i am not a big fan of Vistas. i dont mind having to get them but ones requiring “jumping” or other wise “skill” with extremely poor camera angels and large norn characters is obsurb. the one in question, is in “tribulation rift” as it requires “near” perfect keyboard movement and good field of vision to execute properly. but, what i also didnt read, is that some players, such as myself, are hindered by disablitlies and some actions are not possible or make certain “motions” difficult and that, detracts from the game, period. it forces a person to stop playing because of a limitation, of no fault of their own, but a design flaw, intended or not. and “Yeah” if i want to complete a map, well thats “my” choice, not anyone elses and i dont think i should be chastised for “not” being able to “complete” a vista due to difficulty level involving a “puzzle” . …………………..as far as puzzles, go, i am glad they are there for those who enjoy them, i , do not . IMHO

There are people with better reaction time because they are younger than myself or with more experience in competitive computer gaming – they will certainly beat the living daylights out off me in pvp. Hence, I am clearly disadvantaged compared to them. I did not choose to grow older or start out with a worse reaction time than others. So, remove the need for fast reactions in pvp? I think not.

Edit-PS: If graphic problems are really the issue (haven´t encountered any personally), than the solution is not remove the game mechanic, but fix the issues.

The only thing I wish that was separated out is really the WvW. For 100% you must get everything in every PvE area and everything on every map in WvW. 100% is very difficult. May be a little easier when they implement the 2 week system and you can slowly try to take over other areas, but so far Eternal Battlegrounds has pretty much stayed relatively the same in our server matchups

But vistas idk I think there has been maybe 3 or 4 that were difficult. And don’t worry there will be videos for everything soon enough so no one actually will have to figure out anything

Frotee.2634:

Ok, just beat the one in Dredgehaunt cliffs – yes, I would consider that a jumping puzzle, was quite frustrating at times. But I felt oh so accomplished when I finally made it

It is a true jumping puzzle. It’s just easy to miss the chest off to the side after getting to the vista. The achievement is triggered when you open the chest.

I disagree. If you haven’t done all of the vistas, you haven’t explored 100% of the world. You can get them down if you learn and develop a platforming skill rather than complaining and asking for it to be removed. Self-improvement, even it if it’s something as trivial as developing your hand/eye coordination, is a good thing.

Vistas have become my favorite part of finishing a zone. ANet… I hope you’ll hold true to your design in the face of these attempts to strip it down. As evidenced by the topics already posted in these forums, the onslaught has begun.

Krondorstone.2407:

It should be mandatory that you acquire them before completion.

lol, well, it is.

Neve.7134:

I really hate some vista points and mostly jumping puzzles because my fps are around 10-15 normally. But still, I wanna try and achieve the best I can, and try, try again and again. I tried 7 times for an easy vista point, with people laughing at me because I wasn’t able to jump on a single far rock. I don’t mind, and you shouldn’t too. If you really want to achieve the best (100% completition map) you have to accept the fact that things aren’t easy to get, you cannot simply go there and “yah, got it”. You have to work for it and really, 15mins for a vista point is really nothing if it permits you to get your 100% world completition nearer Good luck and enjoy fights.

And there ladies and gentlemen speaks a true gamer.
I have to agree with others who have voiced their despair at the whining of people on this forum about how because they don’t like a certain mechanic in the game it should be removed.
I did a vista in Malchor’s Leap that took around 20 minutes of falling into the sea and starting again the feeling of accomplishment when I finally beat it was immense. I love the fact that the Vista’s and POI’s lead you to areas of the map that you wouldn’t necessarily look at and inevitably lead you into DE’s.
The real-time “cut scenes” have also made see things I’ve missed and as a result have gone and explored.

Keep vistas required! Just because something is not typical of MMOs doesn’t mean you remove it or make it optional. It’s those things that make GW2 unique and better than the rest. GW2 is faster-paced and more action-oriented than other MMOs, so I see no problem with having to complete exploration challenges that require some coordination to get credit for completing a map. If for whatever reason you need a game that does not require precise/coordinated movement, there are many for you to choose from.

I happen to like platforming and vistas.

Ganadorf.3460:

I don’t know who decided to put jumping puzzles in an MMORPG, but it wasn’t a good idea. They can stay, for casual players that like content like that, but the requirement to do them must be removed from what’s needed to complete a zone. I haven’t found any that I wasn’t able to do, but some of them were just purely annoying, and felt like a waste of time, as I was not enjoying it at all, but needed them for the zone completion and the exp that comes along with that

The worst, and most time consuming one I found was one in the South of Dredgehaunt Cliffs, which took me almost 15 minutes to do. This sort of thing just doesn’t belong in an MMO

I’m sorry but 100% map completion should mean just that, you did 100% of the stuff to do to complete this map.

I would be glad that the real jumping puzzles (the ones with separate achievements) are not included in that, as some of them are brutal. Last night I spend hours doing the Griffonrook Run puzzle and gave up on getting the chest just to get the achievement. Troll’s end I spent at least 20 min looking for the entrance, and then another 30 min going through it.

I disagree with the OP. Zone completion is entirely optional. I think the vistas are a great addition to the game and many of them do not require difficult jumps. Some look like they will be hard to access and in most of those, you eventually realise you’re approaching from the wrong angle. For those rare exceptions where you can’t figure it out, there’s always Youtube because someone else will have found it first.

Me and my son have a ton of fun with vistas and puzzles personally. We love trying to figure out how to get up there to them. And I literally laugh out loud on the ones where I find myself missing/falling down a lot due to my obvious lack of jumping skills. I guess I don’t take it so serious that I allow it to get me upset. I just know when I finally make it, I’m do a woot woot and go on like I’m boss. LOL

Temper.7265:

I have a short fuse when it comes to puzzles and my mood needs to be right to actually care about doing them.Maybe Im just too old for puzzles and stuff (44).

Having said that,the small puzzle vistas and stuff in GW 2 aren’t all that hard,but the moment I’ve spent more than 30 seconds on one,I’m out of there asap and doing something more productive with my time. lol

Age certainly isn’t an excuse, I love the puzzles and I’m only just barely behind you (41), and yes I even hated games like Mario Bros, but these really aren’t all that hard. I have even done a couple of the actual Puzzle achievs, now those are a pain in the rear, but still, if you are persistent they are doable.

On the other hand, as many others have stated, you don’t have to do any of them, as apparently you don’t when they are a pain for you to do.

Yeah, I don’t understand why the OP is even suggesting it. It is, in essence extra content, do it, don’t do it, totally your choice. But there is no need for your dislike of something to change it for everyone else.

This thread: “Everything I don’t like should be optional, but things I do like should be mandatory!”

Alternatively, “I wish I could complete something without actually completing it.”

Map completion on its own is optional, so leave it the way it is.

Mister Stranger.3986:

This thread: “Everything I don’t like should be optional, but things I do like should be mandatory!”

lol So true.

I like the vistas the most as far as exploring goes. Yes, a few can be challenging, but figuring some of them out is very rewarding in the end. Keeping them a part of zone completion seems perfect to me.

There are some personal story lines that have jumping puzzles. Same with skill points. Some of the skill point puzzles are harder then the vistas.

Nipaah.7023:

Ganadorf.3460:

I don’t know who decided to put jumping puzzles in an MMORPG, but it wasn’t a good idea. They can stay, for casual players that like content like that, but the requirement to do them must be removed from what’s needed to complete a zone. I haven’t found any that I wasn’t able to do, but some of them were just purely annoying, and felt like a waste of time, as I was not enjoying it at all, but needed them for the zone completion and the exp that comes along with that

The worst, and most time consuming one I found was one in the South of Dredgehaunt Cliffs, which took me almost 15 minutes to do. This sort of thing just doesn’t belong in an MMO

Vistas are NOT jumping puzzles, they are 2 seperate things. But aside from that, nothing is really forcing you to take the vistas, nobody fault if you have to find everything. Some people do enjoy the views and like the vistas, no reason to take those away just because you personally don’t enjoy it.

And no, I don’t really care too much for the vistas themselves either, I like the view as I walk around, but I see no reason to not have them.

Well the vista in diessa IS a jumping puzzle lol. You cannot get to the vista without making at least 100 jumps…some quite perilous. So they are not two sepArate things…they are not mutually exclusive…and frankly, the reason to have vistas is to make you take time to explore more as you level and fully appreciate the areas. While you might take the time to do that, most players would not as a lot of people are caught up in the leveling race. I LIKE the vistas…I LIKE that they can be challenging to get to and I would not like to see the zone requirements lessened as the game is already too easy in a lot of respects. I really hope Anet does not pander to the masses the way Blizzard did and that they do require some effort before handing over rewards to the playerbase……..Leave the Vistas in the zone explore requirements….earn your rewards rather than racing through the game to level 80 only to say, what now?