Guild Wars 2

Again kudos for completely focussing on the wrong part of my post. So I will try to simplify it for both of you since you are so stubborn to focus on side issues.

As of level 50 Trahearne is in charge and my character is not the hero. Even if he wasn’t at the final fight itself, the fight against Zhaitan is so non-epic and the instance so boring that it kills any sense of accomplishment. And on top of that the dragon was killed, not with my skills or combat prowess…no, with a stupid cannon.

Say what you will, it’s non epic, non heroic and Trahearne is the main character in the story after level 50 or whenever he comes into play.

Gehenna.3625:

Again kudos for completely focussing on the wrong part of my post. So I will try to simplify it for both of you since you are so stubborn to focus on side issues.

As of level 50 Trahearne is in charge and my character is not the hero. Even if he wasn’t at the final fight itself, the fight against Zhaitan is so non-epic and the instance so boring that it kills any sense of accomplishment. And on top of that the dragon was killed, not with my skills or combat prowess…no, with a stupid cannon.

Say what you will, it’s non epic, non heroic and Trahearne is the main character in the story after level 50 or whenever he comes into play.

It more so seems that you don’t wish to listen… Yes Trehearne is the main character, because he HAS to be. He’s the leader (Why him, who bloody knows, is he a good leader, not even close) You are complaining that the game isn’t all about YOU, the player. And it is because YOU CAN’T BE. It is restrictively impossible in an MMO for the Player to be the main character. They needed to establish one for the story. As for not getting any feeling of Accomplishment when killing Zhaitan… Did you miss all of the parts of the story where you completely fuzzed up his supplies, blinded him, ripped down his ability to eat and then SHOT at him with a cannon (Herp a kitten , you aren’t gonna be able to hit that thing with a sword, and a normal gun wouldn’t do very much most likely. Arrows are even worse than guns!). The accomplishment in killing Zhaitan is from the accomplishment of constantly attacking him indirectly, only to finally end it in a direct assault. It’s pretty kitten sweet if you think about it, and not focus on the fact that you couldn’t whack him yourself. (Although I admit, I would love to smack Zhaitan in the face)

Gehenna.3625:

Sigh, Zhaitan was killed blah blah blah. Call it what you want. The main story is over and as it stands Trahearne is the main man from the moment he comes in the story pretty much.

Please don’t focus on whether or not it meant saving the world. The hero of the story was Trahearne, not my character. My point was clearly not whether we saved the world or not but the fact that Trahearne is the main character in the second half of the story line. So please respond to that part. If it’s so important to you that the world is actually technically not saved, well fine. You win we didn’t save the world. But feel free to respond to the main point which is that Trahearne is the main character in this story and not the player’s character.

Mmm, sure. You want to make your case first or should I? Oh, fine, I’ll go first.

The story focuses on Trahearne’s mission to cleanse Orr and thus in the process bring about Zhaitan’s downfall. He is not the main character of the story, that falls to you. Because despite the fact he is leading, you are the one doing and the people who serve in the Pact are aware of it. They follow Trahearne, but they honor . . . you. Charr, norn, sylvari, and grudgingly even asura trust in you to make sure they make it through their missions alive.

Trahearne shows up almost out of nowhere around the time of reaching Claw Island, at least if you’re not a sylvari. It’s revealed he will lead the Pact, but nobody has any clue what exactly is needed for it to happen. But your character talks people into joining up, and your character shores up problems and makes sure this is going to work.

That section of the story is about Trahearne’s Wyld Hunt and how it’s filled. You play a crucial role in that happening, so to say you don’t actually matter to the story . . . I really don’t get how you reach that.

Now, on topic . . .

You want to know why all our characters are heroes? It’s not about wrestling Zhaitan into a headlock and shoving an airship up under his tail. It’s not turning Kralkatorrik into a stained glass monument over the Dragonbrand big enough to be seen from Elona. It’s not grinding Jormag’s face into a snowcone awesome enough to make a norn stop drinking.

It’s the fact we showed up to the “party” at all. Instead of saying “nope, not my problem” and focusing on Kryta . . . Ascalon, Rata Sum, Hoelbrak . . . our characters said “no, screw that Zhaitan” and decided something had to be done. It’s our characters knocking Destiny’s Edge out of their little drama funk and getting them back on the horse so they can shut up and get on with life. It’s our characters telling the Mad King to sit down, shut up, and drink his Ovaltine. It’s our characters freelancing with Rox and Braham to shut down the Molten Alliance facility, two untested and new adventurers who now owe us favors.

They owe us favors. Not Trahearne (whose mother smelt of elderberries), not Logan Thackeray (may his hair be forever feathered), not Eir Stegalkin (norn have no need of suicide, we throw ourselves on our enemies swords and say we died in battle), not Zojja (the eminently punt-able squirt who isn’t worthy of replacing Zekk as my asura buddy), not Rytlock Brimstone (who makes me want Pyre Fierceshot back), and not Ellen Kiel (whose biggest talent is motivating active talent into doing things).

That’s why Tobias Trueflight is a hero, though you won’t see him bragging about it. He’s too busy taking a dirt nap in the Mist War. (Darn thieves.)

Gehenna.3625:

Again kudos for completely focussing on the wrong part of my post. So I will try to simplify it for both of you since you are so stubborn to focus on side issues.

As of level 50 Trahearne is in charge and my character is not the hero. Even if he wasn’t at the final fight itself, the fight against Zhaitan is so non-epic and the instance so boring that it kills any sense of accomplishment. And on top of that the dragon was killed, not with my skills or combat prowess…no, with a stupid cannon.

Say what you will, it’s non epic, non heroic and Trahearne is the main character in the story after level 50 or whenever he comes into play.

I’m not sure why you think being in charge makes you a hero, or not being in charge doesn’t make you a hero. Frodo wasn’t in charge but he was a hero. Aragorn wasn’t particularly in charge either, but he was a hero.

There are so many examples from fiction where the true hero wasn’t the person in charge.

Trehearne is a tragic character, but not a particularly heroic one. If anything he’s an anti-hero to your hero.

Vayne.8563:

Trehearne is a tragic character, but not a particularly heroic one. If anything he’s an anti-hero to your hero.

Oh Vayne, it’s time for me to disagree with you. Trahearne is not a tragic character, and certainly not an anti-hero. He’s a reluctant hero, which is a very different matter. He’s not particularly tragic.

Just his voice acting is, but I’m not sure if that’s the directing or the actor’s doing. (I’m reminded of another character who always sounded flat like that, or uninterested even when delivering what should be passionate lines. Director’s fault, not the VA, but the VA got so much flak from it he decided to never work the character again.)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

Trehearne is a tragic character, but not a particularly heroic one. If anything he’s an anti-hero to your hero.

Oh Vayne, it’s time for me to disagree with you. Trahearne is not a tragic character, and certainly not an anti-hero. He’s a reluctant hero, which is a very different matter. He’s not particularly tragic.

Just his voice acting is, but I’m not sure if that’s the directing or the actor’s doing. (I’m reminded of another character who always sounded flat like that, or uninterested even when delivering what should be passionate lines. Director’s fault, not the VA, but the VA got so much flak from it he decided to never work the character again.)

I didn’t mean a tragic character in the sense of tragedy. I mean he’s a tragic character. That is to say, his inclusion in the story is pretty much a tragedy. I was trying to be funny.

Vayne.8563:

I didn’t mean a tragic character in the sense of tragedy. I mean he’s a tragic character. That is to say, his inclusion in the story is pretty much a tragedy. I was trying to be funny.

Nah. His inclusion isn’t a tragedy, because I am doing the missions with my lil sylvari elementalist and the introduction is going nicer than with Tobias. The handling of his character in the last third is the tragic part.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

I didn’t mean a tragic character in the sense of tragedy. I mean he’s a tragic character. That is to say, his inclusion in the story is pretty much a tragedy. I was trying to be funny.

Nah. His inclusion isn’t a tragedy, because I am doing the missions with my lil sylvari elementalist and the introduction is going nicer than with Tobias. The handling of his character in the last third is the tragic part.

The very fact that most people hate him makes him a tragedy. It’s probably the voice acting, but also some of the choices of dialogue. Maybe when they thought up this won’t end well, they were being prophetic.

He’s disliked enough where it was a mistake to include him as is.

Gehenna.3625:

…the fight against Zhaitan is so non-epic and the instance so boring that it kills any sense of accomplishment. And on top of that the dragon was killed, not with my skills or combat prowess…no, with a stupid cannon.

Say what you will, it’s non epic, non heroic and Trahearne is the main character in the story after level 50 or whenever he comes into play.

I would have preferred to leap from the ship as Zhaitan swept by, lasso him in mid-air with a laser lasso, and then ride him like a bucking bronco to the four corners of Tyria whilst we engaged in a battle of wills (see below) that would ultimately turn Zhaitan into my mount for use in battle against the rest of those overgrown mudkips.

This battle of wills would have been a series of missions in which Zhaitan and I duked it out on a psychic battlefield and could have encompassed many different styles of game play, ranging, for example, from aerial dogfights (dragon vs dragon!) to RTS resource management to a musical instrument head-cutting duel to Zhaitan and I playing a relaxing game of checkers (or air hockey with Trahearnia as the puck).

Vayne.8563:

The very fact that most people hate him makes him a tragedy. It’s probably the voice acting, but also some of the choices of dialogue. Maybe when they thought up this won’t end well, they were being prophetic.

He’s disliked enough where it was a mistake to include him as is.

I don’t know if “most people” actually hate him or they just like to say they do because more vocal people keep saying how horrible he is. You know, like a “hate meme” . . .

Right, give me your point of view on this. I’ll listen to what you have to say. Epic heroic story right?

SPOILER ALERT if you don’t want to know what happens in the level 50 quest the battle for claw island.

I just did this quest:

So I go to the fort and speak to 3 people who obviously can’t possible fathom there could be a threat. This is why they are of course important people.

Then a small group attacks and I kill them. Well, not entirey, I kill a group of five undead with about 6 npcs that are with me. A preliminary attack of course.

A cut scene and poof out of nowhere the walls are taken over and a couple of undead ship come up. Ok things are about to get started.

Logically at this point I must abandon the defense of the fort to run to the beach and revive someone so she can tell the guy in the back standing around that we need to light the beacon. Now I dont fight my way there because more undead keep coming so I just run to her and revive and run back, again ignoring any undead. Not helping the poor lionguards out there. She says let’s light he beacon but the dude in the back says no and tells me to kill the undead ship. Right, so one trebuchet hit later the ship is dead and 50 more ships appear. till ignoring all the undead there.

Now all is lost. I run to the lighthouse and light the beacon. I dont fight my way there because there is no point (respawn) and so run up and back to the final stand in the middle. So I tested something. I pulled away from combat and sat down (screenshot is below. 3 minutes later the dragon comes and shatters the wall (I sure didn’t do any fighting, but as I found out I didn’t have to.

So the dragon is here (and I am pretty sure it used to be a fight with the dragon) but we run away back to the ship, again ignoring all undea mobs because there is no point in fighting them.

Of course all of this with the constant blabbering of Trahearne going on and on and on.

Quest completed.

This is rather an important moment in the story I would say and we only get a story mission every few levels. Seriously, how can anyone keep a straight face and call this epic? How?

lol
I remember when I played WoW and came to a house out in the nowhere and inside there was a sick girl and her dad and her dad asked me to find his daugter a potion to heal her sickness.
I whent searching for this cure and found it and returned with it, gave the girl the potion and she was cured! Yay! I fealt like a hero! 3 seconds later she goes back into the bed and becomes sick and her father forgot my deeds and mourns his daughters fate.
Alot of quests are built like this in every MMO.

Of every deed I do in guildwars 2 I feel like I do something, I help people out and I save people, sadly event’s return but realy that isn’t the problem is it? OP’s point was the ammount of Festivals Living Story, but well… There have been a whole lot of living story where you have been a hero and saved and helped alot, not only once per living story but multiple times like in the molten outbreak part.

Gehenna.3625:

Right, give me your point of view on this. I’ll listen to what you have to say. Epic heroic story right?

This is rather an important moment in the story I would say and we only get a story mission every few levels. Seriously, how can anyone keep a straight face and call this epic? How?

You can use Spoiler tags, you know . . . but I don’t think anyone here is particularly going to be spoiled

I didn’t call it “epic”, but I’ve seen worse. (Oh, Prince Rurik, I swear if I run into you again . . .)

But truthfully? I found Claw Island to be a minor mess so far as things went.

- So the Lionguard trusts this person to command here, but his ego is too big to follow procedure. The fact he’s a charr sold me on it, but it still sort of bugs me.

- So Zhaitan’s forces attacked in small bursts rather than an initial overwhelming surge to be stopped by degrees? I thought that would have been better, having to do a “fighting withdrawal” with Lionguard serving to run blocking for you until you could reach the dock and shove off.

- On the return, everyone seems to scatter off once they hit the courtyard, and they get picked off quickly. I would rather have seen the groups set up a perimeter at the dock entry and small groups one at a time go to seize the objectives rather than all at once.

- I really wish the Tequatl-like champion wound up to be a tougher match, such as backing off at various points and moving to other spots. “Well this isn’t working here, so let’s try the other point where the trouble’s not at.” They’re supposed to be at least a little intelligent . . .

So no, this single mission? Not epic. Could have been, but missed the mark. On the other hand, I found the Defense of Fort Trinity much better executed. I found everything after that much better executed . . . right up until Arah.

Gehenna.3625:

Again kudos for completely focussing on the wrong part of my post. So I will try to simplify it for both of you since you are so stubborn to focus on side issues.

As of level 50 Trahearne is in charge and my character is not the hero. Even if he wasn’t at the final fight itself, the fight against Zhaitan is so non-epic and the instance so boring that it kills any sense of accomplishment. And on top of that the dragon was killed, not with my skills or combat prowess…no, with a stupid cannon.

Say what you will, it’s non epic, non heroic and Trahearne is the main character in the story after level 50 or whenever he comes into play.

When you say in charge, meaning giving orders? You know that in many movies, not all heroes are the “president” or “leader” of their country/community/group/whatever-you-may-call-it.?

A hero could just be anybody, that’s the beauty of it. Not feeling like a hero, is different from being perceived as one by the others around you. The “noble heroes” themselves even sometimes never consider themselves a hero. Try watching “Accidental Hero” http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104412/

Problem with players, not necessarily the player I quoted above, is that they have this perceived picture of how a hero should/must/could/would be. And when the game didn’t meet their own perception, the game for them fails or at least, a disappointment or both, or worst.

If you look at the definition of Hero (and female counterpart), it’s the main character of the story. Trahearne indeed play a part, and he’s a hero. However, my character, as far as my personal story goes, is a hero too. I mean hey, I lead most, if not all, of the invasion.

he·ro [heer-oh] Show IPA
noun, plural he·roes; for 5 also he·ros.
1.
a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
2.
a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.
3.
the principal male character in a story, play, film, etc.
4.
Classical Mythology .
a.
a being of godlike prowess and beneficence who often came to be honored as a divinity.
b.
(in the Homeric period) a warrior-chieftain of special strength, courage, or ability.
c.
(in later antiquity) an immortal being; demigod.
5.
hero sandwich.

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hero

Judging by the definition above, my character in the game is a hero because:
a) I met item 1 (brave, etc)
b) I met item 2, the others looked at me as hero (i.e. the Pact bows to me when I walk past them, and cheered for me)
c) I met item 3, the story is about me. In the final fight, Trahearne is not with me anymore, it’s my own fight. Trahearne has completed his Wyld Hunt at that time.
d) I met item 4, I got powers, where many normal inhabitants of Tyria doesn’t have

The biggest problem is that in later Guild Wars 1 efforts, the player character as the hero was better achieved. So it baffles me sometimes how we stepped back to what we had in Prophecies, where the player character wasn’t a hero by deed so much as by fortune/prophecy bringing them to the position where they could be heroes.

I do like heroes more who act by choice rather than having circumstance draw them into the limelight. Which is probably why I like (not love) the GW2 character – they choose to start down this path, rather than being drawn into it. Well, except for the asura; they seem like they need to be duped into it.

Gehenna.3625:

Right, give me your point of view on this. I’ll listen to what you have to say. Epic heroic story right?

SPOILER ALERT if you don’t want to know what happens in the level 50 quest the battle for claw island.

I just did this quest:

So I go to the fort and speak to 3 people who obviously can’t possible fathom there could be a threat. This is why they are of course important people.

Then a small group attacks and I kill them. Well, not entirey, I kill a group of five undead with about 6 npcs that are with me. A preliminary attack of course.

A cut scene and poof out of nowhere the walls are taken over and a couple of undead ship come up. Ok things are about to get started.

Logically at this point I must abandon the defense of the fort to run to the beach and revive someone so she can tell the guy in the back standing around that we need to light the beacon. Now I dont fight my way there because more undead keep coming so I just run to her and revive and run back, again ignoring any undead. Not helping the poor lionguards out there. She says let’s light he beacon but the dude in the back says no and tells me to kill the undead ship. Right, so one trebuchet hit later the ship is dead and 50 more ships appear. till ignoring all the undead there.

Now all is lost. I run to the lighthouse and light the beacon. I dont fight my way there because there is no point (respawn) and so run up and back to the final stand in the middle. So I tested something. I pulled away from combat and sat down (screenshot is below. 3 minutes later the dragon comes and shatters the wall (I sure didn’t do any fighting, but as I found out I didn’t have to.

So the dragon is here (and I am pretty sure it used to be a fight with the dragon) but we run away back to the ship, again ignoring all undea mobs because there is no point in fighting them.

Of course all of this with the constant blabbering of Trahearne going on and on and on.

Quest completed.

This is rather an important moment in the story I would say and we only get a story mission every few levels. Seriously, how can anyone keep a straight face and call this epic? How?

your pic is epic… lol

250 years ago I was a hero in the first guild wars.
250 years later I heard a second guild wars started so I sharpened my sword and went after the danger only to find an annoying salad and a cat pretending to be a dragon.

Assyrian.4827:

250 years ago I was a hero in the first guild wars.
250 years later I heard a second guild wars started so I sharpened my sword and went after the danger only to find an annoying salad and a cat pretending to be a dragon.

Hahaha… annoying salad!
All the story elements were instanced… so they could have easily made the PC feel like the hero instead of someone else… especially a freaking salad of all things. I’m sorry but I just can’t see a salad as some kind of hero.

“a hero is some type of weird sandwich”

Kelly’s Heroes (1970)

Kelly: Well Oddball, what do you think?

Oddball: It’s a wasted trip baby. Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.

Big Joe: Hey look, you just keep them Tigers busy and we’ll take care of the rest.

Oddball: The only way I got to keep them Tigers busy is to LET THEM SHOOT HOLES IN ME!

Crapgame: Hey, Oddball, this is your hour of glory. And you’re chickening out!

Oddball: To a New Yorker like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Tigers.

Kelly: Nobody’s asking you to be a hero.

Oddball: No? Then YOU sit up in that turret baby.

Kelly: No, because you’re gonna be up there, baby, and I’ll be right outside showing you which way to go.

Oddball: Yeah?

Kelly: Yeah.

Oddball: Crazy… I mean like, so many positive waves… maybe we can’t lose, you’re on!

Borrowed from http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065938/quotes

Assyrian.4827:

250 years ago I was a hero in the first guild wars.
250 years later I heard a second guild wars started so I sharpened my sword and went after the danger only to find an annoying salad and a cat pretending to be a dragon.

No, no you weren’t.

In Prophecies, you accidentally aided an evil Lich King and then quickly slew him to right your wrong.

In Nightfall, you were Kormir's Champion (or equivalent thereof) and aided her/followed her lead, even if it was a terribly thought-out lead, at times.

I don’t want to say anything about Factions since I barely played that (as opposed to my multiple playthroughs of the other campaigns), so the lore on that is slightly iffy to me.

Siphaed.9235:

jweez.7214:

I am a pinata destroyer
I am an avid voter
I am a mini game connoisseur
I am a jumping puzzle master
I am a pyrotechnician
I am a supporter of false victories and looming threats.

But a hero I am not.

What’s your story?

I’m the guy that stopped the Molten Alliance’s invasion of Shiverpeaks/Ascalon area.
I’m the guy that killed the big frog in a test simulation for Moto.
I’m the guy that helped arrest Canach and stop his insane plan.
I’m the guy that solved the murder of a Lion’s Arch captain.
I’m the guy that stopped a major invasion plot by sky pirates.

I am the hero, whether or not there’s an audience to say so. The rest of the fluff in between is fun stuff to do in my down time from saving everyone….

you are the guy with no job.

Vayne.8563:

Kurakura.7281:

In GW2 you are a nobody. You DO NOT matter!

Speak for yourself. You may be nobody and not matter. Me…I matter. Just depends on your perspective.

He is right Vayne because in GW2 we are all DPS no team work required.

Assyrian.4827:

Vayne.8563:

Kurakura.7281:

In GW2 you are a nobody. You DO NOT matter!

Speak for yourself. You may be nobody and not matter. Me…I matter. Just depends on your perspective.

He is right Vayne because in GW2 we are all DPS no team work required.

Really? Perhaps you haven’t tried Fractals, then.

Vayne.8563:

Hell Avenger.7021:

I killed Zhaitan… wait, I still dont know what happened. It just seem that it shows up and died on the mountain without me doing anything.

You should have followed the story better. You’d already by that time blinded and starved him, as well as crippling his ability to make more undead. Also the weapon used to take him down was developed by an Asuran who gets saved in the Asuran story line who you actually meet if you play that storyline. It uses special anti-dragon energy to bring him down.

So by the time you take him down, you’ve already done the damage. The boss fight starts at around level 70 and continues until the end of Arah.

An injured animal is far more dangerous.

Esplen.3940:

Assyrian.4827:

Vayne.8563:

Kurakura.7281:

In GW2 you are a nobody. You DO NOT matter!

Speak for yourself. You may be nobody and not matter. Me…I matter. Just depends on your perspective.

He is right Vayne because in GW2 we are all DPS no team work required.

Really? Perhaps you haven’t tried Fractals, then.

You are right I don’t play fotm because I don’t like vertical progression.

Assyrian.4827:

Esplen.3940:

Assyrian.4827:

Vayne.8563:

Kurakura.7281:

In GW2 you are a nobody. You DO NOT matter!

Speak for yourself. You may be nobody and not matter. Me…I matter. Just depends on your perspective.

He is right Vayne because in GW2 we are all DPS no team work required.

Really? Perhaps you haven’t tried Fractals, then.

You are right I don’t play fotm because I don’t like vertical progression.

So you ignore the hardest content in the game and them make claims about teamwork. Plenty of teamwork in WvW and TPvP, and in PvE there’s still plenty of team work in my guild.

Maybe because everyone doesn’t roll an lul easy-mode warrior and we actually play professions we enjoy playing that incidentally make the game more challenging.

Vayne.8563:

Assyrian.4827:

Esplen.3940:

Assyrian.4827:

Vayne.8563:

Kurakura.7281:

In GW2 you are a nobody. You DO NOT matter!

Speak for yourself. You may be nobody and not matter. Me…I matter. Just depends on your perspective.

He is right Vayne because in GW2 we are all DPS no team work required.

Really? Perhaps you haven’t tried Fractals, then.

You are right I don’t play fotm because I don’t like vertical progression.

So you ignore the hardest content in the game and them make claims about teamwork. Plenty of teamwork in WvW and TPvP, and in PvE there’s still plenty of team work in my guild.

Maybe because everyone doesn’t roll an lul easy-mode warrior and we actually play professions we enjoy playing that incidentally make the game more challenging.

My main is a Mesmer and I don’t enjoy playing melee I’m a caster.
can you please explain what kind of team work is needed if all what we have is adding more dps.
It is proven before that anything other than dps is not the best way to go because it takes more time to do the same thing.

Assyrian.4827:

Vayne.8563:

Assyrian.4827:

Esplen.3940:

Assyrian.4827:

Vayne.8563:

Kurakura.7281:

In GW2 you are a nobody. You DO NOT matter!

Speak for yourself. You may be nobody and not matter. Me…I matter. Just depends on your perspective.

He is right Vayne because in GW2 we are all DPS no team work required.

Really? Perhaps you haven’t tried Fractals, then.

You are right I don’t play fotm because I don’t like vertical progression.

So you ignore the hardest content in the game and them make claims about teamwork. Plenty of teamwork in WvW and TPvP, and in PvE there’s still plenty of team work in my guild.

Maybe because everyone doesn’t roll an lul easy-mode warrior and we actually play professions we enjoy playing that incidentally make the game more challenging.

My main is a Mesmer and I don’t enjoy playing melee I’m a caster.
can you please explain what kind of team work is needed if all what we have is adding more dps.
It is proven before that anything other than dps is not the best way to go because it takes more time to do the same thing.

I don’t know. I play with teams of people all the time, and we have team work, or more technically syngery…which is teamwork too.

As a mesmer, for example, there are times when it really pays to put down a time warp and times when it doesn’t. You want to maximize damage, it means people have to be aware of when you’re putting it down. That means their strong skills haven’t already been used and aren’t already on cool down. Sure you can win without doing that, but then, there’s the efficiency word.

There are times when players go down and need to be rezzed. That means some people kiting the bosses away from downed players while others go rez them.

I’ve seen some great come backs during the lupi fight, for example, with three people down.

Now, if all you do is play with warriors, the alleged most efficient way, that’s one thing. But if you walk into a dungeon with an engineer, a ranger, an ele and a necro in your group, you’re going to need some coordination. And since my guild is filled with necros, eles, rangers and engineers, yeah…we need to coordinate some things.

Other people trivialize and blow by content in their desire to run run run the dungeon as fast as possible. Not everyone plays like that.

My most memorable moment in this game comes from a dungeon run in CoE in the early days, when most of the party got wiped by Project Alpha and just my mesmer and a thief were left, kiting and fighting, running back to try to rez people as we passed, a bit at a time, till we got the entire party back up and beat him.

I’d say that was some pretty decent teamwork.

I am eight people
All eight wander around the world committing genocide on the other creatures of the world.
I ignore other players around me for I have no need for them to reach my goal.
I forget why I am bothering playing my eight characters because things I do in the world are repeated a infinite amount of times by all of them and everyone else who logs into it.
I want pretty clothing but am disgusted by a lottery system that permeates every aspect of the game to acquire them.
I am an addict… I mean hero

Vayne.8563:

Assyrian.4827:

Esplen.3940:

Assyrian.4827:

Vayne.8563:

Kurakura.7281:

In GW2 you are a nobody. You DO NOT matter!

Speak for yourself. You may be nobody and not matter. Me…I matter. Just depends on your perspective.

He is right Vayne because in GW2 we are all DPS no team work required.

Really? Perhaps you haven’t tried Fractals, then.

You are right I don’t play fotm because I don’t like vertical progression.

So you ignore the hardest content in the game and them make claims about teamwork. Plenty of teamwork in WvW and TPvP, and in PvE there’s still plenty of team work in my guild.

Maybe because everyone doesn’t roll an lul easy-mode warrior and we actually play professions we enjoy playing that incidentally make the game more challenging.

You should be able to agree that if team work only matters in FotM, that it is not representative of the whole game. Are you actually advocating that people must play every part of the game?

FotM is the ultimate treadmill for the sake of treadmilling. The game has a lot of different elements to it. Story missions, DE’s, hearts, dungeons, WvW, sPvP and so on….

oh but wait this is not really on topic anyway is it?

Some people don’t feel like a hero in this game, because of the story line mostly I’d say. Someone here said you don’t need to be the president but the point is not so much who’s got the biggest title but who is the story about. And anyone who denies that the later part of the story is not centered around Trahearne’s character and how he and his team saves the world has not payed attention.

Look at it like, I dunno, I remember that series Xena: The Warrior Princess. Well her sidekick would be Gabrielle, if I remember right. I think that people expected to play the role of Xena, but ended feeling they got the Gabrielle part. I can understand that feeling because I share it.

I remember going to speak to this tree and going to the gates of Arah….a big battle ensued. The problem with this big battles is what I demonstrated earlier. It’s not me who wins this battle, it’s a group of npc’s and I just happen to be there as well. Part of it is the story and part of it is the programming. If I die, well I just respawn and let the npcs do the work. The battle is NOT lost without me in that sense. That really just doesn’t feel epic or heroic to me.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Assyrian.4827:

Esplen.3940:

Assyrian.4827:

Vayne.8563:

Kurakura.7281:

In GW2 you are a nobody. You DO NOT matter!

Speak for yourself. You may be nobody and not matter. Me…I matter. Just depends on your perspective.

He is right Vayne because in GW2 we are all DPS no team work required.

Really? Perhaps you haven’t tried Fractals, then.

You are right I don’t play fotm because I don’t like vertical progression.

So you ignore the hardest content in the game and them make claims about teamwork. Plenty of teamwork in WvW and TPvP, and in PvE there’s still plenty of team work in my guild.

Maybe because everyone doesn’t roll an lul easy-mode warrior and we actually play professions we enjoy playing that incidentally make the game more challenging.

You should be able to agree that if team work only matters in FotM, that it is not representative of the whole game. Are you actually advocating that people must play every part of the game?

FotM is the ultimate treadmill for the sake of treadmilling. The game has a lot of different elements to it. Story missions, DE’s, hearts, dungeons, WvW, sPvP and so on….

oh but wait this is not really on topic anyway is it?

Some people don’t feel like a hero in this game, because of the story line mostly I’d say. Someone here said you don’t need to be the president but the point is not so much who’s got the biggest title but who is the story about. And anyone who denies that the later part of the story is not centered around Trahearne’s character and how he and his team saves the world has not payed attention.

Look at it like, I dunno, I remember that series Xena: The Warrior Princess. Well her sidekick would be Gabrielle, if I remember right. I think that people expected to play the role of Xena, but ended feeling they got the Gabrielle part. I can understand that feeling because I share it.

I remember going to speak to this tree and going to the gates of Arah….a big battle ensued. The problem with this big battles is what I demonstrated earlier. It’s not me who wins this battle, it’s a group of npc’s and I just happen to be there as well. Part of it is the story and part of it is the programming. If I die, well I just respawn and let the npcs do the work. The battle is NOT lost without me in that sense. That really just doesn’t feel epic or heroic to me.

Open world stuff never needed, nor was it supposed to need teamwork. It’s not particularly fair to people who don’t know about stuff. It’s open world. In almost every game I can think of, real team work is reserved for instances.

I don’t know why Guild Wars 2 would be any different…or should be.

Vayne.8563:

Open world stuff never needed, nor was it supposed to need teamwork. It’s not particularly fair to people who don’t know about stuff. It’s open world. In almost every game I can think of, real team work is reserved for instances.

I don’t know why Guild Wars 2 would be any different…or should be.

That’s a bit of a weak argument. Is that why there are DE’s that are marked “Group events”. Is that why champions and dragons cannot be soloed?

And there are more dungeons than FotM, right?

Oh and every MMO wants to be different, Anet certainly marketed this game as innovate and different, so that’s a non-argument.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Open world stuff never needed, nor was it supposed to need teamwork. It’s not particularly fair to people who don’t know about stuff. It’s open world. In almost every game I can think of, real team work is reserved for instances.

I don’t know why Guild Wars 2 would be any different…or should be.

That’s a bit of a weak argument. Is that why there are DE’s that are marked “Group events”. Is that why champions and dragons cannot be soloed?

And there are more dungeons than FotM, right?

Oh and every MMO wants to be different, Anet certainly marketed this game as innovate and different, so that’s a non-argument.

Groups don’t imply teamwork. Groups imply multiple people. There’s no reason to assume that five people who show up at an event will even be able to coordinate. The game is made intentionally so that people who don’t want to play with others, but simply play besides them, can.

Vayne.8563:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Open world stuff never needed, nor was it supposed to need teamwork. It’s not particularly fair to people who don’t know about stuff. It’s open world. In almost every game I can think of, real team work is reserved for instances.

I don’t know why Guild Wars 2 would be any different…or should be.

That’s a bit of a weak argument. Is that why there are DE’s that are marked “Group events”. Is that why champions and dragons cannot be soloed?

And there are more dungeons than FotM, right?

Oh and every MMO wants to be different, Anet certainly marketed this game as innovate and different, so that’s a non-argument.

Groups don’t imply teamwork. Groups imply multiple people. There’s no reason to assume that five people who show up at an event will even be able to coordinate. The game is made intentionally so that people who don’t want to play with others, but simply play besides them, can.

There are reasons to assume that but you obviously don’t. Thats fair enough. One of the reasons that I would assume that is because of two reasons:

1) GW2 is different because it doesn’t imply teamwork with group events apparently. Because it’s different from pretty much any other MMO I know it’s logical that people who’ve played MMOs before would think some team work is involved.

2) If FotM is the only place that requires team work in PvE, then that’s a bit sad. If that’s the case then obviously team synergy is not something you are taught during the game. If 99% of the game is not about team work, then why think it’s strange that people don’t see this game as a game for team work? Honestly if team work was so important then there should be more team stuff. The other dungeons are also poor examples because team work is not required as long as you dodge and ress each other…that’s as far as it goes. So really FotM is the exception in the game and therefore not the rule….

but remind me what does this have to do with the topic again about feeling heroic?

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Open world stuff never needed, nor was it supposed to need teamwork. It’s not particularly fair to people who don’t know about stuff. It’s open world. In almost every game I can think of, real team work is reserved for instances.

I don’t know why Guild Wars 2 would be any different…or should be.

That’s a bit of a weak argument. Is that why there are DE’s that are marked “Group events”. Is that why champions and dragons cannot be soloed?

And there are more dungeons than FotM, right?

Oh and every MMO wants to be different, Anet certainly marketed this game as innovate and different, so that’s a non-argument.

Groups don’t imply teamwork. Groups imply multiple people. There’s no reason to assume that five people who show up at an event will even be able to coordinate. The game is made intentionally so that people who don’t want to play with others, but simply play besides them, can.

There are reasons to assume that but you obviously don’t. Thats fair enough. One of the reasons that I would assume that is because of two reasons:

1) GW2 is different because it doesn’t imply teamwork with group events apparently. Because it’s different from pretty much any other MMO I know it’s logical that people who’ve played MMOs before would think some team work is involved.

2) If FotM is the only place that requires team work in PvE, then that’s a bit sad. If that’s the case then obviously team synergy is not something you are taught during the game. If 99% of the game is not about team work, then why think it’s strange that people don’t see this game as a game for team work? Honestly if team work was so important then there should be more team stuff. The other dungeons are also poor examples because team work is not required as long as you dodge and ress each other…that’s as far as it goes. So really FotM is the exception in the game and therefore not the rule….

but remind me what does this have to do with the topic again about feeling heroic?

I think Arah requires team work at points. I think that other dungeons at points require team work too. I’m pretty sure you’d need team work at this time in at least some paths of AC, and in TA F/U path.

And there are guild missions that require team work as well, unless you’re in a guild so large you can totally zerg anything. Some of the most exhaustive teamwork I’ve done is in guild missions.

But I can’t think of any game that really requires team work in the open world. The closest thing I can think of would be something like retaking the temple of balthazar, which can be quite tricky without some organization.

I run a laundry. Daily, a nameless electronic agent passes me its laundry list.

Nick.6972:

“As a structure, the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a Hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you’re doing. The boss you just killed respawns 10 minutes later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”

The playerbase won’t care that GW2 is there either.

Probably one of the biggest failures in this game. I’ve never felt heroic. You know, powerful! Every single mob in the game could easily hand me my kitten if I don’t play right.
And after a while that really begins to wear on me.

I don’t want to be a hero. I liked Everquest back in the day where you were just another face, and your reputation and standing was solely what you had with the other players in your community. Even early WoW didn’t go too far out of its way to stroke your ego.

But lately games try to make you feel as if you’ve made a difference, except that every place you visit always has the same problems they’ve always had. Rift was the worst, with the fireworks shows after you completed a quest line, sometimes while the town was crumbling around you.

GW2’s take on it isn’t quite so offensive, in which you matter but you clearly aren’t the main character, but I dunno. It’s still pretty artificial-feeling. And on the one battlefield where you can make your name known to the community, your nametag is obscured from your enemies.

Blah.

I mean, overall it’s a minor thing and I’ll live with it, but yeah.

Hero is not title that you deserve by throwing some money at devs of MMO. Hero is style of life, when you helping other players in need. Probably Tyria never make parade in your pride, but some single guy or girl can remember you as person who become a Hero for them. And for me it’s more important to hear “thank you” from stranger, than from thousands useless NPC.

None of my characters are “heroes”, they are adventurers who happen to do things that save Tyria. Most often while doing work for their various orders and leaders.