Guild Wars 2

Aetherblade weapon skins.

/sighs

Seriously what happened? You were on the right path with the Aetherblade armor, and I actually thought, foolishly it seems, that after all the complaints about these chests and low drop rates that you had learned and wanted to redeem yourselves. Putting skins up for direct buy in the gem store is the best way to go, it lets those of us who want them have them, and it gets you a fair price per skin. But now you pull this crap? Seriously?

It was one thing when we had to win a RNG game to get a skin, but now you want us to win TEN RNG games for ONE skin?

Because I don’t want to start ranting, and I would really like to not resort to expletives, I’ll just leave it at this; I am very disappointed. What happened to you Arena Net?

I understand that’s your personal opinion but before you bash ANet, it may be good to consider that maybe some people prefer this option, thanks.

Jae.5138:

I understand that’s your personal opinion but before you bash ANet, it may be good to consider that maybe some people prefer this option, thanks.

And based on the countless other threads I’ve seen over the last year most people prefer not to have to spend potentially hundreds of dollars for one skin. This isn’t about opinions, it is about thinly veiled gambling systems being marketed to (in some cases) impressionable children.

Yeah; I said it.

Not only is this RNG crap a rip off, it is marketing a gambling system to children. It may as well be a virtual slot machine.

Arkham Creed.7358:

It was one thing when we had to win a RNG game to get a skin, but now you want us to win TEN RNG games for ONE skin?

If you win big, you can trade in one ticket for one skin.

If you win small, you can still trade in 10 ticket for one skin.

If you don’t like RNG, purchase it off the trading post.

Seems very fair.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Jae.5138:

I understand that’s your personal opinion but before you bash ANet, it may be good to consider that maybe some people prefer this option, thanks.

And based on the countless other threads I’ve seen over the last year most people prefer not to have to spend potentially hundreds of dollars for one skin. This isn’t about opinions, it is about thinly veiled gambling systems being marketed to (in some cases) impressionable children.

Yeah; I said it.

Not only is this RNG crap a rip off, it is marketing a gambling system to children. It may as well be a virtual slot machine.

Except the odds of spending that much to get one of these skins is near 0. Using exaggerated examples to bolster your point just makes your argument look a lot weaker, for your future reference.

‘RNG crap’ is used by essentially almost all gaming companies to keep the money rolling in as well as keeping the players interested. Even loots are RNG. Like I said, there’s also people who prefer this option. that said, I don’t think you’re in any position to call other players ‘children’ when you’re throwing a tantrum on the forum just because you don’t like it.

You don’t like the RNG system for the skin, don’t get it. Plain and simple.

Ursan.7846:

Arkham Creed.7358:

It was one thing when we had to win a RNG game to get a skin, but now you want us to win TEN RNG games for ONE skin?

If you win big, you can trade in one ticket for one skin.

If you win small, you can still trade in 10 ticket for one skin.

If you don’t like RNG, purchase it off the trading post.

Seems very fair.

Because we all know players with big real world wallets hording tickets and listing these skins at ridiculous mark-ups is much more fair than just having a set gem store price for them that, given time, we could also get through normal gameplay (gold to gem conversion).

Arkham Creed.7358:

Because we all know players with big real world wallets hording tickets and listing these skins at ridiculous mark-ups is much more fair than just having a set gem store price for them that, given time, we could also get through normal gameplay (gold to gem conversion).

With the size of the player base, a significant amount of these weapon skins will be produced, thus making it impossible to monopolize. Supply and demand will dictate the prices.

And you can get gold through normal gameplay too, which you can use to purchase them off the TP. Not sure what your point is?

It’s not about what’s fair, it’s about a company making money. You can vote to change this however! If you don’t like it, don’t pay for it. I love it though because it lets the suckers pay for Anet’s profits so they don’t have to nickle and dime me, the average player by making bag slots and things that actually do something more expensive.

As for children gambling, it sounds like a problem for the parents.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Aetherblade weapon skins.

/sighs

Seriously what happened? You were on the right path with the Aetherblade armor, and I actually thought, foolishly it seems, that after all the complaints about these chests and low drop rates that you had learned and wanted to redeem yourselves. Putting skins up for direct buy in the gem store is the best way to go, it lets those of us who want them have them, and it gets you a fair price per skin. But now you pull this crap? Seriously?

It was one thing when we had to win a RNG game to get a skin, but now you want us to win TEN RNG games for ONE skin?

Because I don’t want to start ranting, and I would really like to not resort to expletives, I’ll just leave it at this; I am very disappointed. What happened to you Arena Net?

interestingly enough, japan actually declared that sort of thing illegal about a year ago.

http://www.zdnet.com/japans-gacha-ban-heralds-new-opportunities-7000000543/

Arkham Creed.7358:

And based on the countless other threads I’ve seen over the last year most people prefer not to have to spend potentially hundreds of dollars for one skin. This isn’t about opinions, it is about thinly veiled gambling systems being marketed to (in some cases) impressionable children.

Yeah; I said it.

Not only is this RNG crap a rip off, it is marketing a gambling system to children. It may as well be a virtual slot machine.

- Yes, you’re probably right. Now saying bad words about business doesn’t make it a bad business, does it? Your quest for reasonable pricing and guaranteed rewards falls to deaf ears as long as the cash is flowing.

Arkham Creed.7358:

And based on the countless other threads I’ve seen over the last year most people

People that are happy with it are generally not coming to the forums to create threads or posts to go on and on about it.

The fact that those who do not like something are the ones most likely to comment about it on the forums does not indicate what, “most,” people like or dislike.

Ursan.7846:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Because we all know players with big real world wallets hording tickets and listing these skins at ridiculous mark-ups is much more fair than just having a set gem store price for them that, given time, we could also get through normal gameplay (gold to gem conversion).

With the size of the player base, a significant amount of these weapon skins will be produced, thus making it impossible to monopolize. Supply and demand will dictate the prices.

And you can get gold through normal gameplay too, which you can use to purchase them off the TP. Not sure what your point is?

Currently on the trading post a Aetherized Rifle skin cost 69 gold. On the currency exchange 69 gold would be approximately 3500 gems, or (adjusted for the nearest gem bundle) $50.

That will drop – it is only day one. Essentially the community has got what it wanted with gems for skins, its just that u convert the gems to gold and buy off the tp when the price is right. Long winded, but a start at least

Randulf.7614:

That will drop – it is only day one. Essentially the community has got what it wanted with gems for skins, its just that u convert the gems to gold and buy off the tp when the price is right. Long winded, but a start at least

Doesn’t help me any. This is totally personal and not a factor in my belief that RNG is a horrible way to monetize a game, but I’m a pretty casual player. I work. So while I have a bit of cash in my pocket so that I could buy something off the trading post from time to time (I fell in love with that Aetherblade medium coat instantly and had to have one) I don’t actually have much gold. I think, across all my characters, I have a total of about three gold at the moment.

So yeah, totally personal preference I wish these things were just in the gem store that way I might be able to rationalize getting one. But with them stuck in trading post limbo with a price determined by all the inexplicably rich power traders, gold buyers, and COF famers who don’t know the value of a gold I basically will never get my hands on one. Kind of a bummer.

That said I didn’t create this thread because I personally won’t be able to get one of these skins. Although I’d be lying if I said that didn’t factor into my rage. No, I made this because I honestly do feel like RNG based monetization is a horrible business practice and crosses the line into unethical. I can deal with RNG based loot drops. I can deal with RNG in combat with things like crit chance. These are systems within a game that is bought and paid for. Part of a product that we all paid for knowing what we were getting. But RNG monetization; paying real money for something that you might get if luck is with you. I can’t condone that. It is literally paying money for an unknown, and possibly for nothing.

Maybe it is because I’ve been poor. Spent years unemployed in one of the roughest American economies in recent history. But I value my money too highly to flush it down the toilet by way of paying someone because they might give me what I want. I think it should be simpler.

“I have money, you want money. So just give me the freaking skin.”

I take anything less as a personal insult to my intelligence.

Puts Online Poker to shame, heh… (Fun fact: some states have actually gotten Poker recognized as sport by definition b/c your “performance” in a good Bluff is more important than your hand … kind wish we had atleast that level of minigame interaction with Zomomoron when it came to the old mystic toilet, haha)

Wait a week, then buy them with gold. There’s skins out there that cost a lot more, so not seeing the problem.

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

Wait a week, then buy them with gold. There’s skins out there that cost a lot more, so not seeing the problem.

You don’t know that, data hasn’t been collected yet to know their drop rates and ANet as usual refuses to give full knowledge of the product they are selling by listing the drop rate. The rate could go up, these could end up costing hundreds of gold for all we know.

Most have dropped by 10-15g in the last couple of hours tonight

Arkham Creed.7358:

Ursan.7846:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Because we all know players with big real world wallets hording tickets and listing these skins at ridiculous mark-ups is much more fair than just having a set gem store price for them that, given time, we could also get through normal gameplay (gold to gem conversion).

With the size of the player base, a significant amount of these weapon skins will be produced, thus making it impossible to monopolize. Supply and demand will dictate the prices.

And you can get gold through normal gameplay too, which you can use to purchase them off the TP. Not sure what your point is?

Currently on the trading post a Aetherized Rifle skin cost 69 gold. On the currency exchange 69 gold would be approximately 3500 gems, or (adjusted for the nearest gem bundle) $50.

Would you prefer I sold it to you for 30 Gold instead? Yes? No?

Well sorry mate, if you want it so badly (demand), you need to pay the prices we ask for. Unless another player who has the skin (supply) who would sell for less, you are at our mercy.

Note – the best way to bypass the sellers is to get your own. That requires you to have BL Keys, and the willingness to open chests.

Conncept.7638:

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

Wait a week, then buy them with gold. There’s skins out there that cost a lot more, so not seeing the problem.

You don’t know that, data hasn’t been collected yet to know their drop rates and ANet as usual refuses to give full knowledge of the product they are selling by listing the drop rate. These could end up costing hundreds of gold for all we know.

There’s already skins in the game that cost hundreds of gold :P I’m hoarding a few dyes that are at or around 100g. Buy now if you think they’re going to go up.

I’m personally not a fan of these skins at all. The only interesting one is the hammer, imho.

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

Conncept.7638:

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

Wait a week, then buy them with gold. There’s skins out there that cost a lot more, so not seeing the problem.

You don’t know that, data hasn’t been collected yet to know their drop rates and ANet as usual refuses to give full knowledge of the product they are selling by listing the drop rate. These could end up costing hundreds of gold for all we know.

There’s already skins in the game that cost hundreds of gold :P I’m hoarding a few dyes that are at or around 100g. Buy now if you think they’re going to go up.

Yeah and most players can agree that such skins are the results of horribly implemented event rewards.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Would you prefer I sold it to you for 30 Gold instead? Yes? No?

Considering just how few Gems 30 gold buys now?

<— and this is coming from someone who believes Gems are still undervalued

As long as they’re tradeable, I think it’s fine. It’s skins that require RNG and RNG alone that I have a problem with.

Jae.5138:

I understand that’s your personal opinion but before you bash ANet, it may be good to consider that maybe some people prefer this option, thanks.

Who prefers cash for RNG over cash for weapon skins?

Aside from Anet and NCSoft. Are there really players who prefer RNG chests tp a direct sale?

Lily Miranda.5407:

Jae.5138:

I understand that’s your personal opinion but before you bash ANet, it may be good to consider that maybe some people prefer this option, thanks.

Who prefers cash for RNG over cash for weapon skins?

Aside from Anet and NCSoft. Are there really players who prefer RNG chests tp a direct sale?

i would think compulsive gamblers would fall into that category as well.

I’m confused, I still wish that the skins were simple direct purchases without RNG involved, but how is this not an improvement?

You still have the same rare chance at a ticket to exchange for the skin, same as always.

But now, on top of that, is that you have a much more common chance of getting scraps you can exchange for a ticket. Seeing to it that you can’t really lose by being unlucky.

It still isn’t what I want, but it’s better than it was.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Currently on the trading post a Aetherized Rifle skin cost 69 gold. On the currency exchange 69 gold would be approximately 3500 gems, or (adjusted for the nearest gem bundle) $50.

Ya, that’s perfectly fine. I’m sure it’ll get cheaper as the update progresses. But the actual price point is somewhat moot point. There’s no cartel of wealthy players holding the prices hostage. The prices you see are set by the free market, and you can earn gold in-game to buy these weapons.

Ursan.7846:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Currently on the trading post a Aetherized Rifle skin cost 69 gold. On the currency exchange 69 gold would be approximately 3500 gems, or (adjusted for the nearest gem bundle) $50.

Ya, that’s perfectly fine. I’m sure it’ll get cheaper as the update progresses. But the actual price point is somewhat moot point. There’s no cartel of wealthy players holding the prices hostage. The prices you see are set by the free market, and you can earn gold in-game to buy these weapons.

The so called “free market” is as much an illusion in Guild Wars 2 as it is in real life. It’s just a buzz word for republicans to throw around so people feel better about being completely ripped off. The reality is that the price of goods has nothing to due with supply and demand, or what people are willing to pay, but rather has everything to do with received value, marketing, and “trends.”

Arkham Creed.7358:

The reality is that the price of goods has nothing to due with supply and demand, or what people are willing to pay, but rather has everything to do with received value, marketing, and “trends.”

And right there is proof that you have no idea how markets work.

Arkham Creed.7358:

The so called “free market” is as much an illusion in Guild Wars 2 as it is in real life. It’s just a buzz word for republicans to throw around so people feel better about being completely ripped off. The reality is that the price of goods has nothing to due with supply and demand, or what people are willing to pay, but rather has everything to do with received value, marketing, and “trends.”

Right. Stuff like perceived value, marketing, and fads are all things that can affect supply and demand.

Items are worth the amount you are willing to pay for them. You seem to be willing to pay nothing. Simply don’t buy it.

Farzo.8410:

Items are worth the amount you are willing to pay for them. You seem to be willing to pay nothing. Simply don’t buy it.

He wants the item, but just not at my prices. This is such the enigma.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Arkham Creed.7358:

The reality is that the price of goods has nothing to due with supply and demand, or what people are willing to pay, but rather has everything to do with received value, marketing, and “trends.”

And right there is proof that you have no idea how markets work.

And that right there is proof that you have no idea how reality works. Just look up what happened to JC Penny. Let me spell it out for you.

People.
Are.
Stupid.
They.
Like.
Being.
Ripped.
Off.
If.
You.
Convince.
Them.
It.
Is.
A.
Deal.

Arkham Creed.7358:

And that right there is proof that you have no idea how reality works. Just look up what happened to JC Penny. Let me spell it out for you.

People.
Are.
Stupid.
They.
Like.
Being.
Ripped.
Off.
If.
You.
Convince.
Them.
It.
Is.
A.
Deal.

So isn’t this proof that perceived values have a definite impact on demand?

From this conversation though, you don’t seem to understand what the economic term “demand” means.

Nobody “likes” being ripped off. But people will get ripped off if they think they’re NOT getting ripped off.
You are still displaying a pretty profound lack of understanding of economics.

so disappointing on new patch stuff.. weapon skin, backpack. they look crap, not even though to get it.

Arkham, you will probably feel better if you just walked away from the RNG dress up game. The content right now is laughable anyway. I spent well over 100$ on steam sales and I’m happy as a pig in kitten with all the content I actually got for my money.

No use really debating with guys that like to buy skins and stand around in games like they’re cool.

Arkham Creed.7358:

And that right there is proof that you have no idea how reality works. Just look up what happened to JC Penny. Let me spell it out for you.

People.
Are.
Stupid.
They.
Like.
Being.
Ripped.
Off.
If.
You.
Convince.
Them.
It.
Is.
A.
Deal.

I was hoping this spelled out something.

Past (on the right track) Lbro (lost me) Iyctiiad. Am I missing something?

Arkham Creed.7358:

I’ll just leave it at this; I am very disappointed. What happened to you Arena Net?

Nexon and/or Kristin Cox?

Araziel.7201:

Arkham, you will probably feel better if you just walked away from the RNG dress up game. The content right now is laughable anyway. I spent well over 100$ on steam sales and I’m happy as a pig in kitten with all the content I actually got for my money.

No use really debating with guys that like to buy skins and stand around in games like they’re cool.

The pain of an engineer; we haven’t had one decent looking armor skin in this game until recently, and we had to pay for it. And the first decent looking weapon skins get added through RNG BS. But I guess none of that matters much, just like with all the lovely little back skins Arena Net keeps taunting us with; we’ll never see them anyway.

It seems to me that every time they throw new skins out there, there are different ways to obtain them. Could they be trying different things to find the way that seems to please the most people while making the most money?

I am more confused. They were on the right path,. said they were just experimenting and now they brought RNG black lion chest fest, that got people mad in the first place with wintersday event.

That aetherized rifle hasn’t exactly gotten any cheaper yet.

Also, last I’ll say on this subject; when those who create the supply also manufacture the demand the market is anything but “free.”

Huh? What?
Please explain your last statement, I’m not a mental acrobat so I can’t make out what you wanted to say…

And they’ve gone up by 10 gold over the last day… and they intend to decrease the amount available by five times…

Does ANet even employ a single person with a degree in economics? Oh right… John Smith… guess not then…

Conncept.7638:

And they’ve gone up by 10 gold over the last day… and they intend to decrease the amount available by five times…

Does ANet even employ a single person with a degree in economics? Oh right… John Smith… guess not then…

I’m more interested in if the employ a single person who gives a rat’s kitten about satisfying their players. Or if they just enjoy picking on engineers. You know there is a display bug that causes engineer kits to glitch through equipped back items that has been around since BETA?

I don’t think they have done enough research. The FnF skins offered were limited, not that great, and were probably not a good test of players willingness to buy skins direct rather than RNG.

I don’t think they know how much possible sales income is lost because of people who would buy more desired skins directly, but opt out of RNG gambling.

Also, while gold to gem conversion is attractive, I think we are seeing a problem with it. Mudflation is a fact of MMOs, the bulk of the population is at endgame and gaining gold at a rate outpacing traditional sinks. Anet has to burn that gold off to facilitate RMT gem purchases. So.. RNG leads to more gem conversions by forcing more purchasing of “cheap” items, Keys.. and depletes the gold reserves in game… but how much does it harm actual RMT Gem purchases? Big question.

I will buy items I like. That Item. I will buy stones directly, Makeovers directly, I will not buy a chest for a “chance” at them, and I certainly will not buy a chest for a remote chance of 1/10th of an item I want.

Personally, I will buy a gem card to obtain an item I want, rather than play the conversion mkt and burn through gold. In my case, the rng decision costs them. With 9 chars my ingame gold goes to purchases like Cultural armors, not gem conversions.

I will go to a store and buy a 60dollar Blouse. I would never go to a store and buy 10 dollar mystery boxes guaranteed to have a random cotton t shirt and a remote chance at that blouse.

Why people will do things with pixels they would never do IRL baffles me.

Jae.5138:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Jae.5138:

I understand that’s your personal opinion but before you bash ANet, it may be good to consider that maybe some people prefer this option, thanks.

And based on the countless other threads I’ve seen over the last year most people prefer not to have to spend potentially hundreds of dollars for one skin. This isn’t about opinions, it is about thinly veiled gambling systems being marketed to (in some cases) impressionable children.

Yeah; I said it.

Not only is this RNG crap a rip off, it is marketing a gambling system to children. It may as well be a virtual slot machine.

Using exaggerated examples to bolster your point just makes your argument look a lot weaker, for your future reference.

Not the first time either….

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

I don’t think they have done enough research. The FnF skins offered were limited, not that great, and were probably not a good test of players willingness to buy skins direct rather than RNG.

I don’t think they know how much possible sales income is lost because of people who would buy more desired skins directly, but opt out of RNG gambling.

Also, while gold to gem conversion is attractive, I think we are seeing a problem with it. Mudflation is a fact of MMOs, the bulk of the population is at endgame and gaining gold at a rate outpacing traditional sinks. Anet has to burn that gold off to facilitate RMT gem purchases. So.. RNG leads to more gem conversions by forcing more purchasing of “cheap” items, Keys.. and depletes the gold reserves in game… but how much does it harm actual RMT Gem purchases? Big question.

I will buy items I like. That Item. I will buy stones directly, Makeovers directly, I will not buy a chest for a “chance” at them, and I certainly will not buy a chest for a remote chance of 1/10th of an item I want.

Personally, I will buy a gem card to obtain an item I want, rather than play the conversion mkt and burn through gold. In my case, the rng decision costs them. With 9 chars my ingame gold goes to purchases like Cultural armors, not gem conversions.

I will go to a store and buy a 60dollar Blouse. I would never go to a store and buy 10 dollar mystery boxes guaranteed to have a random cotton t shirt and a remote chance at that blouse.

Why people will do things with pixels they would never do IRL baffles me.

I don’t think Anet is losing money. I think Anet is making money doing it this way. It sucks, but it’s probably true.

Basically there are enough people out there who will spend ten times what something is worth to get it randomly. So for Anet to break even they’d have to sell like ten times the number if they had it in the cash shop.

Vayne.8563:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

I don’t think they have done enough research. The FnF skins offered were limited, not that great, and were probably not a good test of players willingness to buy skins direct rather than RNG.

I don’t think they know how much possible sales income is lost because of people who would buy more desired skins directly, but opt out of RNG gambling.

Also, while gold to gem conversion is attractive, I think we are seeing a problem with it. Mudflation is a fact of MMOs, the bulk of the population is at endgame and gaining gold at a rate outpacing traditional sinks. Anet has to burn that gold off to facilitate RMT gem purchases. So.. RNG leads to more gem conversions by forcing more purchasing of “cheap” items, Keys.. and depletes the gold reserves in game… but how much does it harm actual RMT Gem purchases? Big question.

I will buy items I like. That Item. I will buy stones directly, Makeovers directly, I will not buy a chest for a “chance” at them, and I certainly will not buy a chest for a remote chance of 1/10th of an item I want.

Personally, I will buy a gem card to obtain an item I want, rather than play the conversion mkt and burn through gold. In my case, the rng decision costs them. With 9 chars my ingame gold goes to purchases like Cultural armors, not gem conversions.

I will go to a store and buy a 60dollar Blouse. I would never go to a store and buy 10 dollar mystery boxes guaranteed to have a random cotton t shirt and a remote chance at that blouse.

Why people will do things with pixels they would never do IRL baffles me.

I don’t think Anet is losing money. I think Anet is making money doing it this way. It sucks, but it’s probably true.

Basically there are enough people out there who will spend ten times what something is worth to get it randomly. So for Anet to break even they’d have to sell like ten times the number if they had it in the cash shop.

Vayne, I’m not sure what you mean by “break even”. Do you mean they’d have to sell 10 times as much to equal profits from RNG? If so, I agree.

Have you ever seen someone at one of those stuffed animal crane arcade machines? They will spend $20 to try and get a stuffed animal worth $1.