Guild Wars 2

So I found this thread on MMORPG.com

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/382466/page/1

Now like him I love this game but the more I have been playing I am feeling about the same as he and others in the thread are feeling.

For me it started after I leveled my warrior to lvl 80 and then started on some alts. The thing that really hit me was that my lvl 80 warrior feels just like my lvl 35 Guardian. What I mean is I can go anywhere on my Warrior and in the lower level zones it feels the same as playing my Guardian. There just is no sense of feeling more powerful. I know I have more skills and better gear but it just does not seem to be enough.

So whats the point really?

I know some may say that well maybe this is not for you. That is fine. But I think most games give you a great sense of accomplishment when you are a higher level. This is the first time where it feels like it really just does not matter. level 35 or 80 no difference in the game.

Any thoughts? Am I missing something?

Thanks

Glad you didn’t role a ranger for pve , you’d quit the game the second day playing.

I kinda get what your saying….this game doesn’t have vertical progression dude. Its all about mastering your build/class.

I know that you want to feel uber powerful and stuff but in gw2 only way to do that is to find a really great build and fully utilize it.

My only problem with this game is that their literally are no skins worth striving for. I have been playing since launch like a lot of people and in that time dungeon skins are easy to come by. Theres no armor skins / weapon skins that look really cool that are very challenging(content wise) to get. By content I am not talking about farming for 100 kitten charged lodestones to get a skin.

Also theres no way to show off in this game sadly. When I see a person with a legendary I don’t go “ohhh this player is awesome he must be good” I go “wow this dude got wayy to much time on his hands”

Oh and btw your a warrior you should never feel weak in pve. Change your build/find a new one or go full zeker. If a warrior can solo lupicious you should never complain about your class feeling weak in pve. In spvp/wvw you can complain all you want tho since you guys are horrible in those areas

Personally, I hardly ever see anyone with Arah weapon skins. Maybe a lot of people just think they’re ugly, or it’s just my server, but I can count on my hands how many people I’ve seen wearing an arah weapon.

Take your 35 Guardian to Orr to see if he handles risen as well as your 80 Warrior. There goes your sense of being more powerful.

I see absolutely no point in being able to go to a low level area and just do a million damage to everything. Level scaling keeps even the low level areas of the game fun for people that have reached level cap. The more you level, the more content becomes available for you to do. There is a pretty big difference between being level 30 or 80.

The difference between classes and their ability is also significant. Each class has their own unique abilities that can be combined with other classes to create unique strategies for many different party compositions. One example is the Guardian’s hammer ability that creates an impassable field, this can be combined with knockback attacks (with the Engineer in particular) in order to deal massive damage and knock targets around without knocking them all over the place. Another example is the ranger’s healing spring, which is the longest lasting water field in the game that can be combined with a class with blast finishers (such as a thief with shortbow) in order to fully heal everyone in the party.

The game has a lot of reward and diversity. The biggest problem is that there isn’t any really challenging content to force people to truly utilize it.

Dog.1472:

I see absolutely no point in being able to go to a low level area and just do a million damage to everything. Level scaling keeps even the low level areas of the game fun for people that have reached level cap. The more you level, the more content becomes available for you to do. There is a pretty big difference between being level 30 or 80.

I like the “more content” argument; that’s one I hadn’t though ta bring up before.

To the OP, the downleveling system – which is one of the greatest ideas ever – allows the world experience to feel more realistic, too. After all, wolves don’t actually get smaller and weaker as a person gets more bad-kitten, you just get better at fighting ‘em – that’s what this reflects. That way you’re not stuck wondering, “Why don’t the 50th level wolves just come into the 10th level zone and eat everything and everyone, instead of hunting in a level 50 zone?” – the answer is downleveling; no matter where they go, wolves are wolves.

I infinitely prefer this to being uber powerful and going back to previous zones and doing nothing in them. For one thing, if you could do that, you could grief the people at level doing dynamic events by killing everything before they can get credit. And you are more powerful when you go back, you just can’t run around one shotting everything.

More importantly, for a guy like me, I have an entire world to play in. In Rift, I had three zones and that was it. I didn’t like one of them. That left me two zones to play in.

Here I have five high level zones but I can go back to any zone I enjoy and enjoy it again. See different events than I’ve seen before, find the jumping puzzles or mini dungeons I’ve missed, help out guildies without winning for them.

And I can have a new friend start playing, and go back with my 80 and not have to reroll a new character. That’s pure win as far as I’m concerned.

It makes perfect sense that you feel that way. After all, we all, eventually, will leave Guild Wars 2 behind. Still, at the end of the day, many of us will have dedicated more hours to this game than to anything else in months, maybe years.

Anet will not be concerned about losing players as long as new people are coming in. And they still are. You see them in Queensdale, Wayfarer Hills, Metrica… getting crushed by lvl 8 NPCs.

It will all come down to the kind of effort we see from the developers to keep people hooked, how good the updates are and the expansions they release. As long as they are selling copies, that will not be a priority. But, if Living Story is to be an example, many more people will be out soon.

Vayne.8563:

I infinitely prefer this to being uber powerful and going back to previous zones and doing nothing in them. For one thing, if you could do that, you could grief the people at level doing dynamic events by killing everything before they can get credit. And you are more powerful when you go back, you just can’t run around one shotting everything.

More importantly, for a guy like me, I have an entire world to play in. In Rift, I had three zones and that was it. I didn’t like one of them. That left me two zones to play in.

Here I have five high level zones but I can go back to any zone I enjoy and enjoy it again. See different events than I’ve seen before, find the jumping puzzles or mini dungeons I’ve missed, help out guildies without winning for them.

And I can have a new friend start playing, and go back with my 80 and not have to reroll a new character. That’s pure win as far as I’m concerned.

I find myself strangely in agreement…

They did this well. Going back to previous zones may not be that financially rewarding but all the other things you mentioned exist and it works well. This is truly something that I hope gets implemented into all future MMOs.

If your level 80 Warrior doesn’t feel more powerful than your level 35 Guardian in low level areas… does your Warrior by any chance still wear level 30 or so gear? Because when I go to a low level area on my level 80 characters I literally faceroll over anything in my path. When I go to the same area on a character the same level as the monsters, I might actually face a challenge here and there, if I agro too many, or get into a fight with a champion monster. And it just takes a lot longer to kill stuff in general on the low level character.

wolfkrieg.9815:

Any thoughts? Am I missing something?

Thanks

No seems like you are feeling a lot like that guy.

Indeed, when fully Exotic+-geared, the downleveling is nice enough that you don’t necessarily crush everything, but you will for sure be way more powerful than your level 2 beginning character at Queensdale, for instance.

I would have to agree with the posters above that the low level area downleveling is one of this game’s biggest strengths, rather than any sort of weakness for the many reasons already stated.

I don’t quite see the connection between the OP and the post he linked.

The guy in the linked post was disheartened by the lack of a specific weapon he felt was necessary. That and the lack of feeling like a necessary member when in a group.

The OP was bothered by the lack of “progression”, in that a higher level in a lower zone is not ridiculously powerful.

To the OP, I would like to say something: Have you ever tried going to a zone that is significantly higher than your own level? Because if you do, you’ll get your kitten kicked. Level up to the level of the zone and go back and you’ll be just fine.

Also, I think that there is a clearly progression. If you’re playing a class for the first time, the level is irrelevant: the time you spend is going to prove much more important. And if you’re not, you still have the aforementioned “growing into” higher level zones.

My personal opinion is that the downleveling is one of the best things in the game. It allowed for me to play with my friend without feeling dull and bored, even though I was like 60 levels higher.

And if you think that there is no significance to the levels, then look no further than the traits and skill slots. Before 30, you don’t have access to all of your skill slots, so regardless of how skilled you are, you’re still going to gain something from going up to 30.

The same is true for Traits, but that is a bit less straightforward, as it depends on your build. Some builds have singular traits that are literally build-defining, such as Forceful Greatsword, Vigorous Shouts, Quick Breathing, Hidden Killer, Shadow’s Rejuvenation and Inspiring Battle Standard.

For example, for Warriors, the trait Forceful Greatsword makes a massive difference between a Warrior who has it and a Warrior that does not.

I like the way GW2 does it. I go back to low level zones and they are noticeably easier without being able to faceroll them, which means that even if I’m in a low level zone, it’s still a bit of an adventure. My sense of progression really comes from mastering the fairly intricate play of my class (Mesmer). There’s a lot of depth to the game that only becomes apparent the more you master your class. There’s always a way of building better, being more efficient, and tailoring your build ever more finely to your own playstyle, and playing more effectively (throwing neater shapes).

Really? Because I hate leveling alts because my ranger so strongly outperforms them everywhere in PvE. I easily one shot low level foes where my guardian would be working for days for a kill or my necro would really take forever. It’s such a huge difference, in my opinion.

Level scaling is vastly superior to not doing it for a few reasons.

1) It leaves the whole map available to both the player and A-Net to do zone level appropriate events (like Flame & Frost) without having high level characters monopolize the events by one-shotting everything in sight.

2) You can go play with a lower level friend and not just either power-level him or watch him while he kills mobs. I’m levelling a gnome thief in Hellfire Penninsula and I want/need the one group dungeon quest, I forget which one it is. I call a lvl 85 guildie and follow him through the dungeon looting dead mobs while he one-shots everything so I can get some nice piece of gear for my level but gonna throw away in two levels anyway. How is that fun? How is that not a waste of content?

3) The low level zones don’t have to become wastelands full of content that no one but leveling alts and new players even see. Northrend is practically empty. Shattrath even more so. I quit before Pandas, but I assume all the Cataclysm zones are the same.

4) High levels going for map completion don’t roll over everything leaving nothing for the level appropriate toons until they respawn. How many times have you been in a zone in another game, doing a quest like “Kill 10 rock-dogs” or whatever, and there is only 4 spawns of them in the first place, and some high level toon is there before you going for the “complete all quests” achievement so he can get the exclamation point tabard and title, one-shotting them before you can even get near them?

Weigh that against “but I wanna feel powerful!” Sorry, but I’ll take level scaling any day.

I read the original link’s post.
I don’t necessarily agree with him, but I could understand the frustrations.

When you play a game with a rigid structure like the trinity you expect to have certain responsibilities and stick to them only. The idea of a class that can do it all somewhat, let alone all classes, that’s downright terrifying to some.

So it might cause them to pause and get lost, thus the “What’s the point?” lamentations.

However people who didn’t agree with the trinity, seeing it as a dusty old system where very little imagination is allowed for your character, will at least entertain the notion of GW2’s gameplay a bit more.

Our classes aren’t about what pigeonhole they fit in, but rather what build you can enjoy the most. The OP’s thought about power and not really feeling the difference happened to me too a bit. My Guardian was powerful, but not really doing the damage I liked.

After reviewing my trait lines and even some of my gear I saw that I was all over the place and not in a good way. So after refocusing my traits I now use spirit weapons like crazy and enjoy every minute of it.

Yes in a sense I still pigeonholed myself with my traits, but they are flexible enough for me to switch to something else if I want. That’s what makes this game my favorite If I want to have a trinity-like feel to it I can, but I’m not forced to be in that specific role forever.

wolfkrieg.9815:

Any thoughts? Am I missing something?

Yes. You’re missing the rest of Tyria. The idea is that you can play all that content and it still feels relevent. So instead of hitting 80 and being limited to a few zones designed for max level, you can still roam the entire world and have fun. Yes, it feels cool to roflstomp kitten now & then (that’s why they put bunnies in the game), but I’d rather run DEs in areas I never hit while leveling and still pay attention & have fun. Plus, the drops & rewards scale to your level. So you’re not losing anything really. Just having fun.

Seras.5702:

that’s why they put bunnies in the game

Evil.

I honestly feel the exact opposite. I hated being omgepicpowerful in lower level zones. Everything greyed out, nothing engages me, I can literally run through monsters.

If that’s the experience you want, you unfortunately won’t find it with GW2.

The whole premise of GW2 is that the whole world is one big place where everyone is on even playing ground regardless of level. Obviously some areas are inaccessible due to level, but at level 80 when you can travel everywhere, all of it is scaled to be a challenge.

I mean honestly, why would centaurs in one area be 50x stronger than centaurs in another area? They wouldn’t. As a warrior everything should be cake to kill anyway, so if you can kill 5-6 mobs solo, isn’t that powerful enough for you? Do you really want to be able to one-shot mobs and just feel like some god in these lower level zones?

By the way if you take your fully geared 80 to a starter zone, you will destroy things in 1-2 shots, so you do get to feel a little bit like a badkitten. Just stick to those areas.

I honestly like how each zone can be challenging (or at least not numbingly easy) regardless of level. I want that giant champion boss from that level 30 zone to still be a challenge (unless there are so many freaking people there that they die in 2secs like some of the world bosses). Just because your character has shiny armor and new skills shouldn’t mean now this 50 ton monster is a joke to kill. No, it should be easier, but still difficult.

Pretty sure thats what the devs were going for

To a degree you are also more powerful, based on traits and gear. So it is not completely even when your 80 warrior goes to the same zone as your 35 Guardian.

Am I really the only one who only sees our levels as a number that shows our experience with that particular character?

If I am level 80 I should be able to down everything in a lower level area, not because of my damage numbers being higher, but because I have way more experience with that profession than I did earlier on.

How exactly am I supposed to feel powerful in any way shape or form, if the thing that makes me able to go through a low level zone simply is a number next to my name, rather than my actual skill as a player?
I don’t want my hands held to take down the mobs. I want to use my hands to smash them to the ground.

And why would you, as a high level character, go to a low level area if you aren’t rewarded or challenged?

If there is an area I haven’t explored and a friend of mine is there and asks if I can help him, why should I be able to do all of the work for him in no time, when instead both of us could work together as a group, have fun and be equally rewarded for the content being completed?

I think TC is exaggerating. The traits you get as well as the gear from level 80 make your character stronger in the lower level zones in my opinion. I’ve even been able to two shot mobs on my 80 in lower level zones. something I’ve never been able to do with Try soloing veterans and dynamic events on your level 35 in a 30-40 zone, then do the same on your 80. It’s a lot easier to complete and kill things on the higher level from what I’ve seen.

Yup you notice it all started by him playing a warrior. Warriors suck. ANET refuses to listen to players and fix warriors. They have a strange idea of what warriors are supposed to be like that no one agrees with.

BlackhawkSOM.6401:

Glad you didn’t role a ranger for pve , you’d quit the game the second day playing.

I kinda get what your saying….this game doesn’t have vertical progression dude. Its all about mastering your build/class.

I know that you want to feel uber powerful and stuff but in gw2 only way to do that is to find a really great build and fully utilize it.

My only problem with this game is that their literally are no skins worth striving for. I have been playing since launch like a lot of people and in that time dungeon skins are easy to come by. Theres no armor skins / weapon skins that look really cool that are very challenging(content wise) to get. By content I am not talking about farming for 100 kitten charged lodestones to get a skin.

Also theres no way to show off in this game sadly. When I see a person with a legendary I don’t go “ohhh this player is awesome he must be good” I go “wow this dude got wayy to much time on his hands”

Oh and btw your a warrior you should never feel weak in pve. Change your build/find a new one or go full zeker. If a warrior can solo lupicious you should never complain about your class feeling weak in pve. In spvp/wvw you can complain all you want tho since you guys are horrible in those areas

Interesting, been playing a ranger since day one. I have no issues at all, pretty much cleared the map on my own. Did my storyline solo till the Dungeon. Not once have I felt weak in PVE except for a few of the bounty hunts. So not sure why people have such an issue playing rangers, only thing I can think of is they either don’t know what they are doing and or their build is way off…

I love playing ranger and will not even touch anything else.

Oh I have the new fused skins on my bows from the black lion chests. They look cool as hell:)

This is ANETs Idea of warrior. A support class, that cannot support it self and needs others to support it. Warrior is not a support class bro. And becasue they split up the tress to turn warriors into a support class they lack what they need to be real warriors when specked as a warrior.

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Am I really the only one who only sees our levels as a number that shows our experience with that particular character?

You and pretty much everyone else in the thread who said more or less the same thing.