Guild Wars 2

OP,

despite what they may think, the people here do you reflect the majority. On that note, here’s to hoping people will stop overreacting before playing.

The qq in the forums in unbelievable.

Games shouldn’t need some carrot in your face to be fun. What’s wrong with just introducing the content because its new, unexplored and fun? Why do you need gear with better stats? This is totally against what was advertised for years by the designers of this game. That is why people tell folks like you to go play WoW.

Revrak.8594:

“An MMO is about making your character better and better to beat the upcoming content.”
this game was not supposed to be about this by anet manifesto.
some of us dont like grind, to make it simple, we would like to have a game like lets say… street fighter, or Quake 3, but with Guildwars 2 mechanics. where the outcome is not determined by who spent the most time griding, where its all about player skills. like the pvp part of this game…

Objection. Fighting games require a substantial amount of grinding. You need to practice those combos for hours, memorise mixups, devise various footsies, character matchups, and hone your rushdown/keepaway in order to be successful. That’s not always skill, often that’s muscle memory and mental patterning.

I would have enjoyed the new dungeon regardless of what could drop, now I’ll have to obtain new equipment to fully delve into this new dungeon. To me that seems to be quite silly. I don’t want to fiddle with the mystic toilet, or stack magic find, my gear is complete for my build and now I’ll need to do some re-itemization.

People don’t like it because it’s not needed. They could have scrapped this whole line of gear and changed agony to something else and the content would still rock. Now we just have this dark cloud of knowing your progress is limited to what you’re wearing for this one area. Its fluff, added for the people who feel some compulsion to acquire equipment after ages spent on gear treadmills in other games.

If it was something else, like spiffy cosmetic effects you could obtain, more people would be going “that’s neat” rather than having a nearly 6000 response consisting of frustration for this change.

niclas.7693:

wahwahwahwah

Know what? Yes. We want to make progression on our own. Like we want it. If I wanted to have vertical gear progression, I wouldn’t have gotten GW2. I would have stayed somewhere else, those games got that.
I don’t buy Battlefield and complain it’s not Command & Conquer enough until I get base building. I play C&C if I want that.

“An MMO is about making your character better and better to beat the upcoming content. "
~from the OP

See, that’s where we differ. My end game is about enjoying my accomplishments but finding all the little things appealing. I like seeing something I never noticed or fine tuning builds or testing limits or what I can solo. My end game has never been about the best item for the best slot but if I focus on PVP for my end game, I do have to stay competitive. As I age, I think I like exploring more than improving and hoarding. To find one unique item is better to me than finding an upgrade of an item I already have that is just a few points different. That was the original appeal of all the events and their unique vendors at different parts of the chain.

The new advertised end-game content is piling up infusion. The fractals have no cap. Therefore infusion has no cap. The farther you want to enter the fractals for new shinies the higher your infusion score has to be. Pro-gamer will ask for your infusion score before inviting you. Nobody will ask for ascended gear. This will be the new self-evident standard.

I do not like the new end-game content.

niclas.7693:

Please tell me what do you think about the end game pve, guys? Does it really satisfy you to grind Plinx and other dynamic events all the time? Is running dungeons for the same gear, what you can buy or craft, is the answer? Oh yeah you can do it for the looks, but come on…

As I read the news about the patch, I became really excited, because a minor gear progression will be available – an incentive to do dungeons. The end game will become interesting, as you have to beat mobs, bosses, the whole dungeon to get better gear, therefore making progression and create a stronger character, which, in my opinion, is what end game should be about. An MMO is about making your character better and better to beat the upcoming content. As things stand currently, you reach lvl 80 and you can get a full exotic (end game) gear in no time. This made a lot of players to quit, because they can’t do anything else, there is no GOAL in the game anymore. That’s where the problem lies, and now Anet is heading into the right direction, in my opinion, with introducing this method. ( I don’t want to come up with WoW, but if it isn’t for their end game raids and gear progression, the game would be pretty much dead now.)

This is why I can’t understand the rage about it. Do you really want to continue farming events for gold, and get a different looking armor, or go into a dungeon with your mates and fight for a better gear and feel good about it? Furthermore, they are introducing this whole system in pieces, which is really a sensible thing to do now. You get the back item and the rings now, and in later major updates we will be able to get more. Most importantly, it will be worthwhile to do dungeons and a lot of players will have an incentive to log in again and play with the game.

Finally, I’m sad that the community is flaming about it like no tomorrow. You don’t know yet, what will it be, but you immediately start writing whine posts and saying things like this is the end of gw2… :/ Just be patient, and you will realize that, in fact, it’s a good thing.

Just my two cents, and /heavy flamesuit on :P

I will give you the fact that the patch hasn’t been implimented yet, and that this may not be nearly as bad as it looks.

I don’t grind Plinx, and have no intention of doing so. The way I see it, there are hundreds, even thousands of ways of getting the same resources that you would get during the Plinx event. Sticking to a single method of acquiring karma/xp/money is a waste of a great game, and it’s hard to believe that so many people are completely ignoring the rest of the game just for more shinies. What are you, skritt?

“An MMO is about making your character better and better to beat the upcoming content.”

This is where we differ VASTLY. I’ll do my best to argue my side, and I hope you’ll hear me out, as I have done to you.

The gear treadmill that you describe is very superficial. Do seeing bigger damage numbers really constitute fun for you? If so, do you enjoy looking at large numbers on a calculator too? I strive to make my character better and better too, but though learning how to strategize and make decisions in the heat of battle, not through acquiring +10 armor. GW2 may be the first MMO where skill is a vastly greater factor than gear in the outcome of a fight. Given adequate scaling and access to the needed skills, any character can stand up to any other character, given the right decisions are made.

“This is why I can’t understand the rage about it. Do you really want to continue farming events for gold, and get a different looking armor, or go into a dungeon with your mates and fight for a better gear and feel good about it?”

No, yes, and yes. I don’t “farm” events. I venture out and take part in whatever events happen to come my way.

I hope you honestly consider my side of the story. I don’t intend for this post to be flaming, but some things just need to be said.

You know all these replies about, “well if you want gear progression, go play those other mmos”. Has it dawned on you guys, that maybe, we actually like this game. Maybe, it just has the right stuff in it, and if only it just had couple more features, that would mean the world to many of us?

Yes if we wanted to go play another mmo we would, but we dont, because we like what we see here. We wouldnt be posting our requests if we hated the game.

Dont view us as your enemy. Everything you love about your GW traditions are there, now just another layer to cater to ones who would like to chase that aspect. Just like some of go chasing your puzzle pieces, your exploring, your wvwvw, your spvp….well theres also the dungeon grinders, and even legendaries.

Anyways agree with OP

What happens when you acquire your ring and back piece? Does all your enthusiasm for the game suddenly go out the window?

It’s two pieces of gear. I don’t see how that can work as motivation for very long. If it takes a significant amount of time to get each piece most will give up before they get it. If the amount of time is insignificant then people will get it and once again be out of stuff to do until ANet dribbles out the next few items.

Mastoras.9680:

You know all these replies about, “well if you want gear progression, go play those other mmos”. Has it dawned on you guys, that maybe, we actually like this game. Maybe, it just has the right stuff in it, and if only it just had couple more features, that would mean the world to many of us?

Yes if we wanted to go play another mmo we would, but we dont, because we like what we see here. We wouldnt be posting our requests if we hated the game.

Dont view us as your enemy. Everything you love about your GW traditions are there, now just another layer to cater to ones who would like to chase that aspect. Just like some of go chasing your puzzle pieces, your exploring, your wvwvw, your spvp….well theres also the dungeon grinders, and even legendaries.

Anyways agree with OP

The thing is some players do not like a gear treadmill or gear-gated material. While the one new armor tier doesn’t create the gear treadmill, it places the game and the devs on a very slippery slope. And to really do the new dungeon type, you’ll need the ascended gear, meaning you’ll eventually need the gear or you won’t progress.

And those things are either in the game or they are not and there’s no real way to avoid either. So I’m voting no to gear treadmill and gear gated material. Because theone reason I got GW2 was because it did not have those things. So in giving a bone to you, they’ve taken a bone from people like me.

@Wasslein: thin thing is, it’s eventually going to be more than a ring and a back piece. They’re just adding it in slowly.

niclas.7693:

Is running dungeons for the same gear, what you can buy or craft, is the answer? Oh yeah you can do it for the looks, but come on…

As I read the news about the patch, I became really excited, because a minor gear progression will be available – an incentive to do dungeons. The end game will become interesting, as you have to beat mobs, bosses, the whole dungeon to get better gear, therefore making progression and create a stronger character, which, in my opinion, is what end game should be about. An MMO is about making your character better and better to beat the upcoming content. As things stand currently, you reach lvl 80 and you can get a full exotic (end game) gear in no time. This made a lot of players to quit, because they can’t do anything else, there is no GOAL in the game anymore. That’s where the problem lies, and now Anet is heading into the right direction, in my opinion, with introducing this method. ( I don’t want to come up with WoW, but if it isn’t for their end game raids and gear progression, the game would be pretty much dead now.)

This is why I can’t understand the rage about it. Do you really want to continue farming events for gold, and get a different looking armor, or go into a dungeon with your mates and fight for a better gear and feel good about it? Furthermore, they are introducing this whole system in pieces, which is really a sensible thing to do now. You get the back item and the rings now, and in later major updates we will be able to get more. Most importantly, it will be worthwhile to do dungeons and a lot of players will have an incentive to log in again and play with the game.

Finally, I’m sad that the community is flaming about it like no tomorrow. You don’t know yet, what will it be, but you immediately start writing whine posts and saying things like this is the end of gw2… :/ Just be patient, and you will realize that, in fact, it’s a good thing.

Just my two cents, and /heavy flamesuit on :P

7 (8?) years of GW would suggest that a lot of players have had no problem with playing for skins and running dungeons with friends without stat increases being the reward.

It’s rough to come from GW, where there was never an emphasis on gear tiers, to a patch that appears to be stepping away from this tradition and how it seemed the gear would be handled based on trailers, blog posts, interviews, and so forth.

It’s certainly not the end of the world, but it’s disappointing. Knowing a fresh level 20, even in blues, would be just as well equipped as your elite/prestige armor-clad character with cool Zodiac skins, etc. to fight the good fight, be it against AI monsters or other players, was one of the coolest parts of GW. Now, a fresh 80 in exotics, let alone greens or rares, sure won’t be a pushover, but they won’t be on the same footing, either.

I think this will be good as long its not more then once every six months. There’s players out there ppl who need some sort of endgame goal. Just because your satisfied doesn’t mean its the be all end all case closed. If implemented right you whiners won’t even notice a thing. Someone wants to kick you because bad gear. Well here’s an idea. Create a dungeon guild of your own that doesn’t discriminate. Oh my god what a concept.

niclas.7693:

Do you really want to continue farming events for gold, and get a different looking armor, or go into a dungeon with your mates and fight for a better gear and feel good about it?

The former, thanks. I can do any of that if I want, or do none of it, it’s all the same.
That means I only do things because I’m having fun doing them right then at that time.

The latter? Huh. Hey, you wanna do something worthwhile? Nothing else in the game is worth spending your time doing except getting this new armor, because without grinding for this new armor, you’ll be excluded from the new content! And then the content after that? My god you’ll be playing catch-up! And by the third content release, if you’re not onboard the mudflation express — watch out! Everyone else will be doing >100% your HP in a single attack, and no one will want you in their group!

Yeah. No. That’s garbage. I played WoW, for a long time, I played WoW for a long time after I started hating it even.

If you don’t enjoy running dungeons for no reward, fact of the matter is you don’t enjoy running dungeons PERIOD.

You disagree. I know you do — they always do. Here’s a question. How often have you ever run a dungeon that you didn’t need loot from? ‘cause, I’ve been doing it almost daily for the past few weeks. No reason, it’s just fun, and I’ve nothing better to do except do what’s fun. Of course, it doesn’t hurt that I know those runs can, some day, be used to gear up an alt in endgame gear.. well, it didn’t hurt. Now that’s pretty pointless isn’t it?

Now, you make all those runs necessary? Put something in there that I want, but can’t get, and must keep trying over and over to win at RNG?

That’s frustration, that’s aggravation, that makes me want to punch puppies in the face, that’s not something I’m ever going to do again.

kistell.5684:

Probably because things like this cause a divide in the community as always.

What happens when new players join or very causal players for that matter, they don’t have much in the way of gear.

new player:- LFG new dungeon.

existing player invites them

new player :- hi guys.

Existing player:- you got your Ascended Gear?

New player:- Nope

( new player kicked)

New player Kittened off and has to spam for hours trying to get a group to actually get some Ascended Gear to get groups quicker.

Elitism is not an issue in GW2 currently and it is a good reason many play.

Stuff like this promotes it.

I have a feeling it will eventually turn out like this, sadly

Lifelike.5862:

Revrak.8594:

“An MMO is about making your character better and better to beat the upcoming content.”
this game was not supposed to be about this by anet manifesto.
some of us dont like grind, to make it simple, we would like to have a game like lets say… street fighter, or Quake 3, but with Guildwars 2 mechanics. where the outcome is not determined by who spent the most time griding, where its all about player skills. like the pvp part of this game…

Objection. Fighting games require a substantial amount of grinding. You need to practice those combos for hours, memorise mixups, devise various footsies, character matchups, and hone your rushdown/keepaway in order to be successful. That’s not always skill, often that’s muscle memory and mental patterning.

no, that is training, with training you improve your skills, with grind you do not. it is very different.

To the people that keep saying: If I wanted to gear grind I would not play GW2 I could just go play “Game X” please go and take your bucket of tears with you. Nobody will be doing ascended gear checks besides this new dungeon, there is still 99% of the game you can do. Just like nobody did exotic checks when all the drama queens where spilling their guts on the forums about it guess what? It never happened.

niclas.7693:

Please tell me what do you think about the end game pve, guys? Does it really satisfy you to grind Plinx and other dynamic events all the time? Is running dungeons for the same gear, what you can buy or craft, is the answer? Oh yeah you can do it for the looks, but come on…

No I’m not satisfied with that, so I don’t do those things. Instead I do WvW, and sPvP, but I would rather be doing PvE content. What do you think will happen after players burn through this new content? The same kitten thing, players will grind lost shore events and dungeons all the time. I would like to have fun and earn proper rewards for doing things all over Tyria. Not in just orr or dungeons.

niclas.7693:

Please tell me what do you think about the end game pve, guys? Does it really satisfy you to grind Plinx and other dynamic events all the time? Is running dungeons for the same gear, what you can buy or craft, is the answer? Oh yeah you can do it for the looks, but come on…

As I read the news about the patch, I became really excited, because a minor gear progression will be available – an incentive to do dungeons. The end game will become interesting, as you have to beat mobs, bosses, the whole dungeon to get better gear, therefore making progression and create a stronger character, which, in my opinion, is what end game should be about. An MMO is about making your character better and better to beat the upcoming content.

No, THIS MMO used to get better. Use your skill effectively, make combos. share your CC. Playing for 200 hours to get one stat better so that you can do the next dungeon for another 200 hours so that you can do the next dungon was never the goal of this MMO. It was to train your skills and have fun.

I did played 500 hours and have seen around 5% of the content. Please don’t tell me, there there are already people out there, that claim that they have seen it all. That would be around 10.000 hours playing (without repeating anything) – that is over one year being online 24/7. If someone mange this within the 3 months that the game is online, please give us your time machine.

I’ve already got 100% world completion, as do a number of other people.
I’ve already done every dungeon, as have a number of other people.
I’ve got the materials, waiting on a bow that doesn’t have rainbows, butterflies, unicorns, or flowers, to craft my legendary. Plenty of people have already made theirs.
I’ve ranked up in sPvP, as have many people, much farther than I have.
I’ve completed my personal story on four characters, haven’t bothered with the fifth slot, because it’s only different up to level 20.

I completed this game, and I’m ready for new content. The new content I’m getting is stupid though.

And to the above drooling idiot who thinks MMOs are about the gear treadmill, go back to WoW, please. We don’t want you here.

XGhoul.7426:

To the people that keep saying: If I wanted to gear grind I would not play GW2 I could just go play “Game X” please go and take your bucket of tears with you. Nobody will be doing ascended gear checks besides this new dungeon, there is still 99% of the game you can do. Just like nobody did exotic checks when all the drama queens where spilling their guts on the forums about it guess what? It never happened.

“The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative. We’re going to add tons of new high-level content to Guild Wars 2 in the future. As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).” From the blog post.

This dungeon will not be the only one with Infusion, actually every dungeon released after it will require more and more agony reduction, eventually becoming necessary.

niclas.7693:

Please tell me what do you think about the end game pve, guys? Does it really satisfy you to grind Plinx and other dynamic events all the time? Is running dungeons for the same gear, what you can buy or craft, is the answer? Oh yeah you can do it for the looks, but come on…

As I read the news about the patch, I became really excited, because a minor gear progression will be available – an incentive to do dungeons. The end game will become interesting, as you have to beat mobs, bosses, the whole dungeon to get better gear, therefore making progression and create a stronger character, which, in my opinion, is what end game should be about. An MMO is about making your character better and better to beat the upcoming content. As things stand currently, you reach lvl 80 and you can get a full exotic (end game) gear in no time. This made a lot of players to quit, because they can’t do anything else, there is no GOAL in the game anymore. That’s where the problem lies, and now Anet is heading into the right direction, in my opinion, with introducing this method. ( I don’t want to come up with WoW, but if it isn’t for their end game raids and gear progression, the game would be pretty much dead now.)

This is why I can’t understand the rage about it. Do you really want to continue farming events for gold, and get a different looking armor, or go into a dungeon with your mates and fight for a better gear and feel good about it? Furthermore, they are introducing this whole system in pieces, which is really a sensible thing to do now. You get the back item and the rings now, and in later major updates we will be able to get more. Most importantly, it will be worthwhile to do dungeons and a lot of players will have an incentive to log in again and play with the game.

Finally, I’m sad that the community is flaming about it like no tomorrow. You don’t know yet, what will it be, but you immediately start writing whine posts and saying things like this is the end of gw2… :/ Just be patient, and you will realize that, in fact, it’s a good thing.

Just my two cents, and /heavy flamesuit on :P

Its no use trying to ask on the forums….Gear = destroyed game in an MMO for some of these people lol. At this point they can add anything to the game and they will QQ over it.. They buy keys on halloween which clearly says theres a chance on particular items and when they dont get it they QQ lol. Theyll never be happy even though they have already got their 60 dollars worth already.
You know what I bought the game and I was under the impression there wasn’t a grind but guess what… There is a HUGE grind in this game especially in Orr its no joke out there haha.. To me I feel like i was a little mislead but who cares its not even a big deal! unbelievable how a little gear change creates such an outrage for these people.

XGhoul.7426:

To the people that keep saying: If I wanted to gear grind I would not play GW2 I could just go play “Game X” please go and take your bucket of tears with you. Nobody will be doing ascended gear checks besides this new dungeon, there is still 99% of the game you can do. Just like nobody did exotic checks when all the drama queens where spilling their guts on the forums about it guess what? It never happened.

That’s the problem, that there would be gear checks. Even if the groups had a valid reason due to the whole gear gated material the Fractal dungeons possess. Now I’m not saying one gear gated material option isn’t a bad thing. It’s not great for the game, but it won’t kill it. It’s the ok, what’s the next gear gated material going to be? What will it require?

And you’ve missed the point of the uproar. It’s not that there’s a new set of armor to grind. It’s the fact that it’s armor with what appears to be better stats. And it’s the uncertainty of it because we don’t know much about the infusions or how long it takes to acquire the gear and the infusions to go in them. It’s the fear of the game turning into a gear treadmill that’s got people worried and up in arms.

And it’s what has me on the fence. The moment it BECOMES a gear treadmill will be the day I stop buying gems or expansion packs. But I won’t stop spending money on it just because they add one new tier. Now if in 6 months they’re adding a new tier…

steelwolf.9864:

This dungeon will not be the only one with Infusion, actually every dungeon released after it will require more and more agony reduction, eventually becoming necessary.

I doubt it.

I think the Infusion slots will be used for a variety of situations, not purely focused on an escalated need for more Agony reduction.

I loathe gear grinding and gated content. I don’t think it is going to be like that. They say it will be possible to obtain these gear items in all sorts of ways so you don’t need to run the same dungeon over and over to acquire. It is another category that is only a tiny bit better than exotic. With it being obtainable through multiple ways it is more akin to the kind of character progression you have with gear as you level up (greens to rares, to exotics, to ascended). It isn’t T2 and it doesn’t require long nights on the treadmill.

I like what it is. Adding progression in this way is not a bad thing.

Is the game just supposed to stay capped at level 80? If they ever raise it you will have progression again.

Should the only things new we see just be skins?

As long as it is akin to the character progression we see as we level and outfit with better gear/stats/skins and not require a treadmill to obtain it so you can see new content (gated). Then I am all for it.

Smitt.8602:

I like what it is. Adding progression in this way is not a bad thing.

Is the game just supposed to stay capped at level 80? If they ever raise it you will have progression again.

Should the only things new we see just be skins?

Yes it is bad, yes it should stay capped at 80 forever, and yes, all new equipment within existing categories should be cosmetic-only.

The reasoning is pretty simple: There is no progression. The content will always be balanced around the maximum power that a player can maintain. Giving the player 5% more damage is just going to mean that new content will have 5% more HP. There is no progression.

What is there is a forced downgrading of every player’s equipment. Exotic equipment is the current maximum that players can attain, and so content is balanced around Exotics. Rare equipment is viable, but noticeably suboptimal. Green equipment can be used, but it will definitely feel weak, and so on.
When Ascended equipment is the maximum, since there is no actual progression no matter what the maximum equipment level is, the natural result is that every other equipment tier is shunted down one level. Exotics become the new Rares – viable, but suboptimal. Rares become the new Greens – workable, but weak. Greens take on the role of Blues, Blues are as good as the old Whites, and Whites are basically unheard of at level 80 to begin with.

So nothing’s changed. Nobody’s made any (forward) progress. But everybody’s equipment is functionally busted down by one tier, and a player has to grind out the new gear just to get back to the exact same spot they were at to begin with. That is why it’s called a treadmill. You can run, but you’ll make no progress, and if you don’t run, then you get moved backward.

It’s a losing proposition for everybody involved, unless you like the process of getting to the maximum power plateau more than you like playing at the maximum power plateau. Much of the GW2 player base prefers playing while maxed out to getting maxed out, and finds the latter to be a slog that they only want to have to do once. That’s why this current blowback is more intense, pervasive, and vocal than any other complaint this community has seen, since the game launched.

I’d say it’s simple, get me to successfuly run the dungeon once and get the aforementionned gear, ok. Give me a way to get it through WvW without spending months grinding tokens, ok.

Ask me to repeat the same dungeon 50 times until I get the kitten piece of gear, definitely not ok. That wouldn’t be a challenge, an endless time sink isn’t a challenge. It isn’t fun. So far I was happy with how things worked. I ran the dungeons a bit with friends, but didn’t feel forced to grind them for exotics, I got my exotics through other means, karma, gold, wvw,… I say splendid. 3 months and I never felt any form of grind, and I’m still having fun. I don’t want that to change. Give me more challenging content to overcome, don’t give me content that I have to repeat endlessly hoping it’ll keep me playing. It won’t.

niclas.7693:

Please tell me what do you think about the end game pve, guys? Does it really satisfy you to grind Plinx and other dynamic events all the time? Is running dungeons for the same gear, what you can buy or craft, is the answer? Oh yeah you can do it for the looks, but come on…

yes for the looks and then fight other players with almost/same stats = fun. Geargrind and gearprogression is this way:

http://eu.battle.net/wow

I play for several hours every day. I have two level 80s in full exotics (lol, I used to be happy about that, now I’m kittening pissed I wasted money on transmutation stones and time farming that crap). I have never done Plinx once. I don’t know what you are talking about. I was very satisfied playing the game as it was. I was not crying out for this, not once did this cross my mind as something that I wanted.

I run multiple dungeons, I do them with guilds, I do them with friends, I do them with pugs who need one more. I enjoy the game, the story, the lore, exploration and sometimes I even have cosmetic goals (I ran TA just for the armour, I bought AC armour but I transmuted sylvari racial armour onto it right away). There was no gap for me, there was no endless grind, there was no boring zerg to get karma (I’m satisfied with dungeon karma and daily/monthly karma tonics). I have no idea where the problem this patch is solving existed because I consider myself hard core and I never saw it.

It’s already worthwhile to do dungeons, myself and many other people do them every day. You know what will make dungeons pointless? Adding a new tier of gear superior to what you can get in that dungeon? Then people will only run the dungeon for gold. Why waste your time farming exotics when you skip right to ascended? This is just introducing new problems, upsetting loyal and dedicated fans (ironically they claim this is to please dedicated fans) and back pedalling on design ideals to make the game an inferior version of something it was brave enough to not become.

As a level 80 player in full transmuted exotic gear, currently working on a second full set and a change of trinkets, I have to ask… wtf is Plinxx?

I’ve never had issue getting materials by running around. Completing some areas gives you 40 Orr for pete’s sake! Greens into the forge for extra rares… Heck, I rarely step into orr nowadays. Want some quick gear, go help CoF. The blues/greens/and yellows from there are leveled to you anyway, so it’s just as good and way more fun (though I advise doing he dungeon after.)

You used to have choice on how to get the gear.

Crater.1625:

Smitt.8602:

I like what it is. Adding progression in this way is not a bad thing.

Is the game just supposed to stay capped at level 80? If they ever raise it you will have progression again.

Should the only things new we see just be skins?

Yes it is bad, yes it should stay capped at 80 forever, and yes, all new equipment within existing categories should be cosmetic-only.

The reasoning is pretty simple: There is no progression. The content will always be balanced around the maximum power that a player can maintain. Giving the player 5% more damage is just going to mean that new content will have 5% more HP. There is no progression.

What is there is a forced downgrading of every player’s equipment. Exotic equipment is the current maximum that players can attain, and so content is balanced around Exotics. Rare equipment is viable, but noticeably suboptimal. Green equipment can be used, but it will definitely feel weak, and so on.
When Ascended equipment is the maximum, since there is no actual progression no matter what the maximum equipment level is, the natural result is that every other equipment tier is shunted down one level. Exotics become the new Rares – viable, but suboptimal. Rares become the new Greens – workable, but weak. Greens take on the role of Blues, Blues are as good as the old Whites, and Whites are basically unheard of at level 80 to begin with.

So nothing’s changed. Nobody’s made any (forward) progress. But everybody’s equipment is functionally busted down by one tier, and a player has to grind out the new gear just to get back to the exact same spot they were at to begin with. That is why it’s called a treadmill. You can run, but you’ll make no progress, and if you don’t run, then you get moved backward.

It’s a losing proposition for everybody involved, unless you like the process of getting to the maximum power plateau more than you like playing at the maximum power plateau. Much of the GW2 player base prefers playing while maxed out to getting maxed out, and finds the latter to be a slog that they only want to have to do once. That’s why this current blowback is more intense, pervasive, and vocal than any other complaint this community has seen, since the game launched.

No matter how you break it down if you see the little numbers on the screen go up when you hit an enemy then you are progressing. You can certainly view obtaining ascended gear as progress and if I can make an ascended back piece in the MF then it is hardly a treadmill. Perhaps it would have been better to just make them slightly better exotics?

I think people are highly overreacting. As long as it is easy-ish to obtain just like the exotics/other gear in the game than it will be just fine. If it does turn into a gated mess on a treadmill than that would be bad news.

Wiser with Age.3714:

In MMOs, the unofficial standard for a player’s gear constantly changes based on what kind of gear is available. At this current point, the unofficial gear standard for an established 80th character is full Exotic gear. Once these new Fractual gear pieces get introduced, the gear standard will change to expecting everyone to have Fractal armor and Exotic weapons / jewelry.

I’m tired of the gear treadmills of other MMOs. Having a perfectionist streak, I know that I won’t be satisfied to weaken my character when there are better options available. This leads me to dungeon and gear grind to meet the new gear standard. If I fail to meet this new standard, then my performance will be sub-par in newer content and I’ll be socially snubbed by the usually MMO elitism that appears in any MMO. So as a result, I end up chain grinding for 1-2 months of my life to meet the new gear tier. Rinse and repeat for each new gear upgrade.

One of the key appeals of GW2 was that it didn’t want to go down that route. Based on everything that I’ve seen during the past couple of years, they gave the impression that GW2 was going to be more of a part-time MMO. Their core audience would be people who either played a 2nd MMO as their primary game or for people who had busy real world lives and couldn’t invest the time neccessary to keep up with the standard MMO pack.

Based on that interview article, it appears that ArenaNet is backing away from one of the key things that I found so appealing about the game. Assuming that the article is accurate, then a lot of us will have to seriously re-evaluate about just how we feel about the revised standard for GW2. Since it’s a Buy To Play model, lost “subscribers” won’t even make that much of a dent in ArenaNet’s short term finanaces. It will be interesting to see if switching to a cliche Gear Progression system will help or harm ArenaNet in the future.

very well said. and agree fully. thought I was done with my gear getting and was settli g into just playing the game. had even started looking at the odd piece of dungeon gear to get for transmogging coz I liked the look of a helm or shoulders or GS.

and I really liked the liberation. of not needing to worry about getting ‘better gear’

I stopped wow with the last expac. ecause all the time effort and research I put into my pally tank went to kitten the second it was released. kitten off. GW2 had a stat ceiling that meant I only needed to focus on playing better rather than gearing better to succeed.

ho hum

See what I don’t get is how players are complaining about there being a new tier of gear which increases stats by +3. I didn’t see anyone complaining about the jump in stats when they upgraded from Rares to Exotics, but god forbid that Anet to introduce a new level of gear between exotics and Legendaries, I mean it’s ‘totally gamebreaking’ right?.

Seriously, take the time to complain about the bots and various bugs that plague this game, a minor stat increase in high level gear hardly makes this game broken.

Just my two cents.

Mastoras.9680:

You know all these replies about, “well if you want gear progression, go play those other mmos”. Has it dawned on you guys, that maybe, we actually like this game. Maybe, it just has the right stuff in it, and if only it just had couple more features, that would mean the world to many of us?

Yes if we wanted to go play another mmo we would, but we dont, because we like what we see here. We wouldnt be posting our requests if we hated the game.

Dont view us as your enemy. Everything you love about your GW traditions are there, now just another layer to cater to ones who would like to chase that aspect. Just like some of go chasing your puzzle pieces, your exploring, your wvwvw, your spvp….well theres also the dungeon grinders, and even legendaries.

Anyways agree with OP

So if I’ve an allergy to peanuts, you would tell me that eating a Snickers would be fine because the peanuts are just another layer to appeal to people who aren’t me?

Don’t view you as the enemy? You want to change the one thing about this game that got me to hand Anet my money. I bought this game because they said there was no gear progression, that there was a gear plateau and that was the end of it.

I bought their lies, and now you’re dancing and laughing because you’re.. what? You’re being given what’s available in EVERY OTHER MMO ON THE MARKET. I am having taken from me what was ONLY AVAILABLE IN THIS MMO.

But yeaaah, I’m the one overreacting. Gosh darn me, why should I expect there to actually be anything differentiating any of the MMOs out on the market? They’re all just reskins of one another.

It’s funny, I keep playing MMOs that appear to be unlike WoW, and then I quit them when it becomes obvious that they only want to emulate WoW. If I wanted to play WoW I would play WoW. Simple. I quit that crap a long, long time ago, because I do not like that kind of gameplay. Now it’s here. What to do, what to do…