Guild Wars 2

The tribal armor would work perfectly. Can we have it back, please?

Red Queen.7915:

snip

youve downgraded Conan/ Barbarian to everyday warrior to argue point.

also there is a difference.

Moob’s aka man boobs are when fat accumulates above the pecs. (typically forms around 28-34) aka Like a womans boobs. fat above her pectorals.

http://collider.com/wp-content/uploads/arnold-schwarzenegger-conan-the-barbarian.jpeg

that is muscle. that is not kitten or boobs in any form of the word. Boobs are FAT deposits over the pectoral muscles.

I have seen women just do cardio and drop breast sizes from a F cup > C cups in 3 months. The fantasy definition of women is fantasy. The only ones ingame I can excuse are the norn as they arent human and they actually have some body options that add bulk. as for what they will do to get buff.. running fighting carrying heavy thing more fighting. One doesnt need to actually “work out” to gain muscles. ask farmers, construction workers etc etc.
Where would they get the time? 3 days a week 30 mins each exorbitant amount of time.

also see Esplens’ reply.

DonQuack, I think we are talking about different definitions of “bodybuilding”. I was assuming the extreme, something that is achieved via very specific exercise and a very specific diet.
That picture of Conan isn’t something I’d file under “bodybuilder”, at least not the stereotypical kind. Also, those are at least B-cups^^

Besides, what a man has packed onto his chest isn’t that different from what a woman has. Biologically, we start out the same, and that doesn’t change too much. A woman’s breast are a combination of muscle tissue and fat, the latter of which is specific to women, I give you that. But overall, when talking about boobs, we can safely include men. Especially when talking about the very buff ones, who do have more muscle there, thus forming the infamous “kitten”. Those aren’t exclusive to large men. The exact makeup of those manboobs doesn’t really matter, the form is there. Which is what my comments were mostly directed at. If I can’t show my naked chest in public, neither can a man, because he’s got basically the same business going on, it just looks a bit different. Likewise, if a Conan character can run around shirtless, a Conina character can, too.

Edit: Wait, I can say “boobs” here safely, but the short version of manboob isn’t allowed? oO

/signed

my old guild talked about this alot. We found it highly unfair that we couldn’t have just as many sexy males running around as females with barely anything on. And yes there are a couple of skimpy skins particularly for Norns which we are greatful for but there’s really not enough we need more please.

Light.7493:

I agree they should create an ugly body type which has body parts maimed. Didn’t know people were into that _
No one would use it though XD

I and people I know totally would. Not everyone makes their character a sexual object to enjoy while they’re playing. (at least not for every character)
Not that having a thing for body types outside of barbie & ken is so unbelievable.

DonQuack.9025:

Moob’s aka man boobs are when fat accumulates above the pecs. (typically forms around 28-34) aka Like a womans boobs. fat above her pectorals.

http://collider.com/wp-content/uploads/arnold-schwarzenegger-conan-the-barbarian.jpeg

My best friend and I regularly have conversations about Arnold’s flawless boobs- some of the best of all time. My friend is a boob man you see (i’m less of a specialist myself, but I appreciate the whole package).
Hang out with more gay guys, or more people outside your own circles really and you’ll learn language gets used in more ways than how you use it.

Red Queen.7915:

DonQuack, I think we are talking about different definitions of “bodybuilding”. I was assuming the extreme, something that is achieved via very specific exercise and a very specific diet.
That picture of Conan isn’t something I’d file under “bodybuilder”, at least not the stereotypical kind. Also, those are at least B-cups^^

. . . but that is closer to what existed when Mr. Arnold was still in shape.

Fun fact – bodybuilders sculpt their body by pretty much burning away all the fat, while the people who are actually pretty strong look chunkier by comparison. Yet, they’re just as capable of feats of strength. If you watched Game of Thrones, I’d say the guy they had playing the Mountain Who Rides could serve as an example.

Here

Reality is often . . . unrealistic

Besides, what a man has packed onto his chest isn’t that different from what a woman has. Biologically, we start out the same, and that doesn’t change too much. A woman’s breast are a combination of muscle tissue and fat, the latter of which is specific to women, I give you that. But overall, when talking about boobs, we can safely include men. Especially when talking about the very buff ones, who do have more muscle there, thus forming the infamous “kitten”. Those aren’t exclusive to large men. The exact makeup of those manboobs doesn’t really matter, the form is there. Which is what my comments were mostly directed at. If I can’t show my naked chest in public, neither can a man, because he’s got basically the same business going on, it just looks a bit different. Likewise, if a Conan character can run around shirtless, a Conina character can, too.

Slightly wrong, females do have something different biologically. No matter how equal they may look, there is still little detail of mammary glands. Whether or not they’re . . . active.

Also whether a female is accepted to run around topless really does depend on cultural sensibilities. And not the fictional culture, but the writers’ culture.

Red Queen.7915:

BobbyT.7192:

Red Queen.7915:

Dude, you are completely igoring the second half of both the “women shopping men’s clothes” and the “Red Sonja’s boobs-and-butt shots” argument. That is taking the first hlaves of those statements out of context.

And I do read better comics. I just don’t find many of those. Which is the problem.
_
kitten, I swore I was done arguing with this guy -.-

But doesn’t both those arguments come down to “go where the money is”?

So you’re saying, because I tend to avoid buying stuff that feeds into the old tropes of bikini armour and damsels in distress, but instead choose to wait for something that doesn’t demean a fundamental part of my identity, I have no money?

Besides, “Sex sells” is a myth. Except when you’re selling sex. There’s a rather recent study that shows that when people – and that includes heterosexual men – watch commercials loaded with sexual imagery, they tend to remember that imagery, but not the product the commercial was for, and there are countless articles coming to that exact same conclusion. If you are selling something sexual, by all means, go for the sex. If you are trying to sell me a car, don’t drape a naked person over it. If you are trying to sell me food, don’t put it on someone’s naked butt. That is unsanitary.

Pls don’t put words in my mouth, i am not implying that your poor just because you don’t want a product thats more widely presented. Strawmens are evil things.
I’m not saying you can’t get what you want, you should absolutely get it. But that’s not going to stop others liking something or the people supplying what you don’t like.

Now I’m not going disagree on those articles or studies, I would agree that using sex to sell something non sexual won’t get you far. I do wonder what kind of product and the form/amount of sexual material were used in those studies. I wouldn’t remember the information of an otherwise boring bank commercial if there porno along with it. But I would remember a body spray commercial with women chasing a guy across town or a guy with chiseled abs playing a guitar filled with puppies.

Would Sonja be any less popular if she was dress with more clothing? Im not into comics in general so I don’t know anything about her outside of like 10min of googling. Do you think her personality currently would be enough to carry her? In regards to her sexual imagine , was her popularity a result of the makers trying to target a certain group of people, or the controversy that went along with it (people do love controversy).

And for the record, I would totally eat food off of a naked models butt.

Back on topic, I was kinda disappointed that the medium named set is the way it is,
Male verison would look great on my female engi, while the female version wouldn’t be bad if looked like this on a male.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gallery_of_male_assassin_Exotic_armor.
I own a male thief norn, and I want to show off his tattoos, but really don’t like the cultural stuff.

Yes, the Sneakthief armor could very well be two separate sets, given that the two versions look pretty much nothing alike. Same could be done to light armor Winged sets as well.

Also, Vigil medium male pants need to lose the legs – as it is, it’s just another boring pair of pants, men should get some leather speedos & belts too!

Malediktus.9250:

Skimpy armors need to be abolished. Noone in their right mind would fight with skimpy armor. Especially not heavy armor.

In feudal Japan, the shinobi wore full plate armor. It made maneuverability and stealth as keen as a the katanas they often utilized.

Dude, you are completely igoring the second half of both the “women shopping men’s clothes” and the “Red Sonja’s boobs-and-butt shots” argument. That is taking the first hlaves of those statements out of context.

I’m not ignoring them, I’m just not including those poritons in my quote box because this board has a character limit and I don’t have room to post every word you say AND every word I say. If anyone wants to read your comments in full then they are free to do so in the post above, and my comments are made taking your full comments into account, regardless of how much of it I quote.

You, on the other hand, seemed to ignore the vast majority of what I wrote to focus on me not paying enough attention to you, so exactly who’s priorities are not in order here?

FYI, you often misinterpret what people say and you project waaaay way too much. It often doesn’t help your side of the argument. I’m not going to break it down point for point. I’ll just remind you: perspective.

Red Queen.7915:

Oh, and by the by, calling a powerful and heroic woman “nonsense”? Not a smart thing to say in this particular discussion.

I said: “So you try to dress up a female to look powerful or heroic or whatever other nonsense you think is catered toward males,…”

That means, “So you dress up a female in whatever nonsense you feel is exclusive to males” which touches on the subject that most feminists tend to IGNORE the fact females ARE portrayed as heroic, powerful, dominating, villainous, cruel, potent, exceptional, etc while making up some nonsense about these being exclusive to males.

Not only that, but a lot of the time, they’ll go on to hold onto attributes like powerless, helpless, weak, sexual, subservient, impotent, unintelligent, expendable, etc as being predominately placed upon females when that is a boldface lie.

That’s the nonsense I’m talking about but in far more words.

And your other post?
“Will she put a shirt on while she waits outside a dungeon for her party to get started? Because she probably wouldn’t seem quite as scary at that point.”
Well, neither would Conan while he’s sitting on his butt waiting for the fighting to start. Should he put on a shirt, too? I mean, they both should, actually, because it can get quite chilly up in Frostgorge Sound when you are just sitting around, but I have this supsicion you are referring to her boobs being out. So are his. Depending on how much he works out, his might be bigger than hers. Your point?

My point is, how often would a shirtless female armor be used against my argument for the sake of your silly desire for a shirtless barbarian woman that you don’t even want? I’ll tell you now that it would be used by men to have visible boobs on their female characters and be ogled by males and females would decry the effort to have barbaric equality among males and females.

Basically, such an addition would be used not for good but for evil. Evil people are the reason we cannot have nice things, not just men but evil women as well.

Red Queen.7915:

DonQuack, I think we are talking about different definitions of “bodybuilding”. I was assuming the extreme, something that is achieved via very specific exercise and a very specific diet.
That picture of Conan isn’t something I’d file under “bodybuilder”, at least not the stereotypical kind. Also, those are at least B-cups^^

Besides, what a man has packed onto his chest isn’t that different from what a woman has. Biologically, we start out the same, and that doesn’t change too much. A woman’s breast are a combination of muscle tissue and fat, the latter of which is specific to women, I give you that. But overall, when talking about boobs, we can safely include men. Especially when talking about the very buff ones, who do have more muscle there, thus forming the infamous “kitten”. Those aren’t exclusive to large men. The exact makeup of those manboobs doesn’t really matter, the form is there. Which is what my comments were mostly directed at. If I can’t show my naked chest in public, neither can a man, because he’s got basically the same business going on, it just looks a bit different. Likewise, if a Conan character can run around shirtless, a Conina character can, too.

Edit: Wait, I can say “boobs” here safely, but the short version of manboob isn’t allowed? oO

No, lady. I don’t do hundreds of push-ups, bench presses and dumbell flys for my chest to be called manboobs. They are called pecs.

Manboobs are what that Southpark WoW player has, obtained through lack of activity and poor diet.

If you want to refer to someone’s chest, the short-term ‘boobs’ can be used, but that tends to be a positive description for a desirable chest. Manboobs is a negative term along the lines of mosquito-bites.

Moar skimpy armor for the guys!! \o/

Besides my 2 male asura, all the rest of my toons are female. I loathe most of the male armor, it’s just so typical in MMO’s to have pretty ugly male armors. Although, most of the gem store outfits look fine on male toons.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

I am laughing at the people(woman) here talking about being experts in bodybuilding, much less bodies.

Y’all smell of horrible insecurity. And by “y’all” I really mean like 3 people.
Fantasyworldsgonnafantasy.

Also to reiterate my position; skimpy armor on anything is lamekittenkitten.
Get a kittening life.
Go look at porn.
Keep your smut/twilight/50shades fantasies out of my videogames.

Skimpy armor on anything is lamekittenkitten? It’s porn?

Skimpy armor on Charr, Guild Wars 1.

Skimpy is not the same as porn, unless that’s where your mind is at already.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

I am laughing at the people(woman) here talking about being experts in bodybuilding, much less bodies.

Y’all smell of horrible insecurity. And by “y’all” I really mean like 3 people.
Fantasyworldsgonnafantasy.

Also to reiterate my position; skimpy armor on anything is lamekittenkitten.
Get a kittening life.
Go look at porn.
Keep your smut/twilight/50shades fantasies out of my videogames.

Dear, you don’t have to be so modest. If you’ve got it, you’ve got to flaunt it, and it don’t matter whether you are a brother or whether you are a mother.

But, if you feel too insecure to look at anyone with sex appeal, you can go play by yourself in a corner, we don’t mind.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

I am laughing at the people(woman) here talking about being experts in bodybuilding, much less bodies.

Y’all smell of horrible insecurity. And by “y’all” I really mean like 3 people.
Fantasyworldsgonnafantasy.

Also to reiterate my position; skimpy armor on anything is lamekittenkitten.
Get a kittening life.
Go look at porn.
Keep your smut/twilight/50shades fantasies out of my videogames.

So basically the swimming pool is a big porn set ?

In case you didn’t know, not everyone constantly thinks about sex. Some players simply want their character to look good and show off the choice they made when creating them (tattoos, fur, light pattern).

I’m tired of having the same argument with people that skimpy and sexual aren’t the same thing. And regarding male armor, there’s a difference between asking crotchless pants and sort of low rise pants.

i would not care about skimpy armor, i do care about having sexy armor and in GW2 there is absolutely none of them for both male and female.
the only two remotely sexy looking for the female is only for the NPC’s, the human noble dress and anise’s robe.

when talking about sexy armor you can only thing of female armor, the reason is because male isn’t suppose to be sexy but handsome.
i have made a picture of 4 armors (2 of each gender) that is sexy/handsome yet not skimpy, know the difference between sexy and skimpy please.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

I am laughing at the people(woman) here talking about being experts in bodybuilding, much less bodies.

Y’all smell of horrible insecurity. And by “y’all” I really mean like 3 people.
Fantasyworldsgonnafantasy.

Also to reiterate my position; skimpy armor on anything is lamekittenkitten.
Get a kittening life.
Go look at porn.
Keep your smut/twilight/50shades fantasies out of my videogames.

Funny how you are the one throwing obsceneties around, but I’M the one who’s insecure (I assume by “woman” you mean me, since I’m the one with the obviously female nickname?).
I never said I was an expert in bodybuilding, but I do know human biology. Discussions in an environment like this tend to grossly simplify things, so I usually tend to refer to extremes as well. Maybe I should have mentioned that neforehand. Whatever.
__

Leo G: “most feminists tend to IGNORE the fact females ARE portrayed as heroic, powerful, dominating, villainous, cruel, potent, exceptional”
The problem is that a lot of these women, while sometimes great characters, and sometimes horrible ones, are depicted as overly sexual. Flaunting your boobs and posing for maximum visibility of your butt all the time is not the norm for women, nor should it be. It certainly isn’t for men. The characters are, more often than not, not the problem. It’s artists who use old tropes and cliches to dress them up, thus reinforcing stereotypes like, for example, “sexually independent women are evil, modest ones are good and pure”. That’s disgusting, and not fit for a modern, equal world. Red Sonja (since she’s in this already) kicks butt. She’s awesome in a bunch of ways. But she wears something no woman in her right mind would ever wear into battle. Have you ever tried wearing a chainmail bikini? Those things are uncomfortable as hell, and not something you’d pick to go fight things.
That in itself wouldn’t be so bad, but it’s so kitten prevalent, and other options are so scarce, that is what sucks. Not the bikini itself, but the frequency in which it is used, even when it makes no kitten sense, juts to have a woman in a bikini.

As for me interpreting and projecting, words have meanings and connotations, especially in charged discussions like this. If we go by grammar, your use of “nonsense” referred to “powerful and heroic”, which in turn referred to “women”. That is an unfortunate choice of words if that’s not what you meant. But how am I supposed to know that?
I did also never refer to powerful and heroic being dude-exclusive. They are just mostly dude-exclusive in forms that have nothing sexual attached. Female villains more often that not have their sex appealn dialed up to 11. Female heroes not quite as often, but still often enough. That is the difference that irritates me and countless others.

I linked two of the biggest collections of examples for negative artistic portrayals of female characters there are (and I assume you are familiar with Anita Sarkeesian, obnoxious as she may be?). I have received no examples of anything that contradicts these. If male characters get dressed up sexy, victimised and whatnot af often as female characters, where are those portrayals? I’m really curious if anyone can provide me with a pool of examples for male ridiculousness as big as BikiniArmorBattleDamage and Eschergirls.

“I’ll tell you now that it [shirtless female barbarian] would be used by men to have visible boobs on their female characters and be ogled by males and females would decry the effort to have barbaric equality among males and females.”
I’d wager they wouldn’t. Do you have any idea how awesome it would be for a game to have this, without making a big deal out of it? Those who cry loudest are usually not representative (just like I hope the nitwits wailing on about being hit on by a guy in DA2 are not representative of the general male gamer pouplation). The goal of feminism in video game culture is not “stuff that offends no woman ever”, it’s “stuff that treats everyone the same, regardless of their sex/gender”. Of course someone would be offended. There always is someone. But when there are enough options, those someones are free to go look elsewhere. Right now, there aren’t many options, let alone good ones, so if we want to pursue our hobby, we have to put up with it or give up somthing we love. Neither option is very fair.

And okay. So you have boobs. I shall cease to refer to them as manboobs, and remember this for the future. And no, this is not sarcasm. Honest to god, I’m serious. Why would I not be? Boobs are cool.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

I am laughing at the people(woman) here talking about being experts in bodybuilding, much less bodies.

Y’all smell of horrible insecurity. And by “y’all” I really mean like 3 people.
Fantasyworldsgonnafantasy.

Also to reiterate my position; skimpy armor on anything is lamekittenkitten.
Get a kittening life.
Go look at porn.
Keep your smut/twilight/50shades fantasies out of my videogames.

Hey, everyone! It’s no longer your fantasy! It’s all .. hang on, what was your name again..? Uh… one second… Omar Aschi Popp’s fantasy! Consider yourselves told. Also, all your video games are belong to him. Hand them over now, people. Form orderly queues. Thank you for your co-operation.

Bless.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

I am laughing at the people(woman) here talking about being experts in bodybuilding, much less bodies.

Y’all smell of horrible insecurity. And by “y’all” I really mean like 3 people.
Fantasyworldsgonnafantasy.

Also to reiterate my position; skimpy armor on anything is lamekittenkitten.
Get a kittening life.
Go look at porn.
Keep your smut/twilight/50shades fantasies out of my videogames.

You’re the only one sounding insecure about yourself here.
If you think about porn when you see a bit of skin, maybe we’re not the ones who should, as you said it, ‘’Get a kittening life.’’

The problem is that a lot of these women, while sometimes great characters, and sometimes horrible ones, are depicted as overly sexual.

Why do you view this as a problem? Why can a woman not be both strong and sexual?

But she wears something no woman in her right mind would ever wear into battle. Have you ever tried wearing a chainmail bikini? Those things are uncomfortable as hell, and not something you’d pick to go fight things.
That in itself wouldn’t be so bad, but it’s so kitten prevalent, and other options are so scarce, that is what sucks. Not the bikini itself, but the frequency in which it is used, even when it makes no kitten sense, juts to have a woman in a bikini.

It’s her signature look though. If she weren’t wearing it, then she would just be some random red-head, visually speaking. Eir at least has the tattoos.

I linked two of the biggest collections of examples for negative artistic portrayals of female characters there are (and I assume you are familiar with Anita Sarkeesian, obnoxious as she may be?). I have received no examples of anything that contradicts these.

What are you expecting? The sites you linked to are jokes, there’s really nothing that can be said to “contradict” nonsense. It’d be like “how do you contradict ’Who’s on First?’”

“What’s on second,” but I digress.

If male characters get dressed up sexy, victimised and whatnot af often as female characters, where are those portrayals?

It’s not as often, but that’s not the point. The point is that a victimized female NPC does not negate strong female NPCs, and while a game might include a few victimized strippers, it also likely includes dozens of victimized male characters, just less likely in a sexual manner, since that wouldn’t make any sense in most games for reasons that have nothing to do with sexism on the part of the creators.

Not that any of that has anything to do with this discussion, since we’re talking about player characters, and female PCs are no more victimized than male ones.

The goal of feminism in video game culture is not “stuff that offends no woman ever”, it’s “stuff that treats everyone the same, regardless of their sex/gender”.

Lol, how I wish more people on the Internet shared your view, but no, among the Internet at large, the ONLY goal being pursued is “stuff that offends no woman ever”, If anything ever does offend any woman ever, oh we’ll all hear about it, no matter how inconsequential. Most people, non-feminists included, would be perfectly fine with treating everyone the same, regardless of their sex/gender, but that is not the agenda that drives ad-clicks.

But when there are enough options, those someones are free to go look elsewhere. Right now, there aren’t many options, let alone good ones, so if we want to pursue our hobby, we have to put up with it or give up somthing we love. Neither option is very fair.

But again, that’s not really relevant to this game, since there are plenty of options on both sides.

And okay. So you have boobs. I shall cease to refer to them as manboobs, and remember this for the future. And no, this is not sarcasm. Honest to god, I’m serious. Why would I not be? Boobs are cool.

It’s a pretty simpler reference. Boobs are kind of round/ovoid, maybe a bit pointy, and squishy. Pecs are more rectangular and rigid. Each has a gender attached that is typically considered favorable and the opposite is typically considered unfavorable. Humans of both genders have pectorals muscles and mammary glands, but there is an accepted divide in how each is expressed.

Red Queen.7915:

I did also never refer to powerful and heroic being dude-exclusive. They are just mostly dude-exclusive in forms that have nothing sexual attached. Female villains more often that not have their sex appealn dialed up to 11. Female heroes not quite as often, but still often enough. That is the difference that irritates me and countless others.

On a side note, villain with hyper charged sex appeal and the mentality to flaunt it isn’t a trope exclusive to females – Kuja says hi – but on the flipside, female villain who flaunts power instead of sex appeal is a rare sight indeed.

On a side note, villain with hyper charged sex appeal and the mentality to flaunt it isn’t a trope exclusive to females – Kuja says hi – but on the flipside, female villain who flaunts power instead of sex appeal is a rare sight indeed.

Female villains are often attractive, but they don’t always “flaunt their sex appeal” any more than male villains do. I mean, just in film we have Elsa (in parts), Maleficent (in Sleeping Beauty, at least, didn’t see the Jolie movie yet), Grimhilde from Snow White, and in comics you have Titania, Rampage, Ursa/Faora, Calisto, Deathlocket, classic Waller, the new Ventriloquist, etc. You do typically have more female characters that use their sexuality as a strength because it more often works for them than it does for men, although there are also male characters that use their sexuality offensively, like James Bond, who has had a successful string of movies based on it.

Ah yes, I was thinking more in game context, which I should probably have mentioned had I realized it myself. In films and especially non-visual media, the situation is not quite as polarized.

Well, in games, Scarlet wasn’t sexualized, nor was Faolain, or Teoh. I can’t think of a ton of female game villains though, sexualized or otherwise.

Ohoni.6057:

Well, in games, Scarlet wasn’t sexualized, nor was Faolain, or Teoh. I can’t think of a ton of female game villains though, sexualized or otherwise.

Well, there’s Queen Jennah for foot fetishists . . . what? She never wears shoes.

Ohoni:
“It’s her signature look though. If she weren’t wearing it, then she would just be some random red-head, visually speaking. Eir at least has the tattoos.”

So you’re saying that, for a female charatcer to be recognisable as Red Sonja, she MUST wear a chainmal bikini? Which basically means that there is absolutely nothing else that defines this character? Are you for real?
Besides, Sonja started out with a chainmal shirt. The bikini came later.

“The sites you linked to are jokes, there’s really nothing that can be said to “contradict” nonsense.”
And NOW I’m really, truly done with you. Dismissing an argument or proof as a joke because you really don’t have anything to support your contradicting opinion is hilariously sad. That does not make you or your arguments look good. Apart from that, you don’t have to explicitly and individually contradict my claims to show me evidence to support your own. You can perfectly well show me examples without me having to “go first”. Which is what I did. But wait, those sites are jokes, I forgot.
Seriously, bite me. I’m all for open discussions, but you are trying to drag me down to a level that makes this whole thing look ridiculous, and that is exactly what enables people like you to go “Hey, look at those idiots, all unscientific and stuff, nobody can take them seriously!”. And that doesn’t help anyone.

I wish you a good day and continued fun with this awesome game, but I will as of now stop talking to you.

Red Queen.7915:

Ohoni:
“It’s her signature look though. If she weren’t wearing it, then she would just be some random red-head, visually speaking. Eir at least has the tattoos.”

So you’re saying that, for a female charatcer to be recognisable as Red Sonja, she MUST wear a chainmal bikini? Which basically means that there is absolutely nothing else that defines this character? Are you for real?
Besides, Sonja started out with a chainmal shirt. The bikini came later.

Didn’t it come from one particular artist known for that sort of look and it stuck due to him being the only one doing art for the books?

It’s weird, I have a Conan comic book in my closet (it was given by a friend who didn’t want it) where he was stripped down and had to be rescued by Valeria. She wore sensible clothing most of the time. And so did he when he was in a parade as “General Conan”.

Also there was the TV animated series where he did tend to dress more sensibly than what people think of. So did the females.

Forget Conan and that stuffy old Hyborian Age. Barsoom is where it’s at! Note: not the dreadful movie version.

Tachenon.5270:

Forget Conan and that stuffy old Hyborian Age. Barsoom is where it’s at! Note: not the dreadful movie version.

As always, the good stuff is hard to find here, and don’t get me started about nonexistent translations T_T
*angry Monty Python voice* Globalisation? What has globalisation ever done for us?!

Ohoni.6057:

Well, in games, Scarlet wasn’t sexualized, nor was Faolain, or Teoh. I can’t think of a ton of female game villains though, sexualized or otherwise.

I wasn’t talking about GW2, but of games in general.

Rezzet.3614:

I Demand Crossdressing to be allowed

O tempora, o mores.

I dont think that would be appropirate for a PEGI 12 game at all.

Tuomir.1830:

Ohoni.6057:

Well, in games, Scarlet wasn’t sexualized, nor was Faolain, or Teoh. I can’t think of a ton of female game villains though, sexualized or otherwise.

I wasn’t talking about GW2, but of games in general.

. . . are we on the same page here? For every time I think of a female villain type, I can think of another two which weren’t sexualized. The best ones weren’t.

The Boss, Maleficent, Jenna Angel (though not sure if she counts), Takhisis, Director Isard, Cinder Fall, Olivia Dunham, Captain DuPree, Control, Utuk’ku, Lolth, Varesh Ossa, and the Lady of Pain.

Oh, and funnily I recalled a book by Jeff Grubb which had on the cover the “stereotypical stab-me-here” chainmail bikini – in story it existed only as ceremonial garb and the character herself commented on how pointless it was. Alias of the Azure Bonds.

Malediktus.9250:

Rezzet.3614:

I Demand Crossdressing to be allowed

O tempora, o mores.

I dont think that would be appropirate for a PEGI 12 game at all.

Wait, what? Why? oO

Red Queen.7915:

Malediktus.9250:

Rezzet.3614:

I Demand Crossdressing to be allowed

O tempora, o mores.

I dont think that would be appropirate for a PEGI 12 game at all.

Wait, what? Why? oO

Yeah, I mean, my charr wears female armor all the time.

. . . it helps most charr armor is unisex.

Malediktus.9250:

Rezzet.3614:

I Demand Crossdressing to be allowed

O tempora, o mores.

I dont think that would be appropirate for a PEGI 12 game at all.

It would mean women wearing male plate armor. I can see that shocking impressionable young people.

(That’s cross dressing also you know)

/sarcasm

In the past, women wearing pants was shocking, immoral and lewd. Women were arrested and fined for wearing men’s clothing. Keeping this in mind, the prohibition against men wearing women’s clothing is a cultural feeling, not a “natural” one.

Astral Projections.7320:

Malediktus.9250:

Rezzet.3614:

I Demand Crossdressing to be allowed

O tempora, o mores.

I dont think that would be appropirate for a PEGI 12 game at all.

It would mean women wearing male plate armor. I can see that shocking impressionable young people.

(That’s cross dressing also you know)

/sarcasm

In the past, women wearing pants was shocking, immoral and lewd. Women were arrested and fined for wearing men’s clothing. Keeping this in mind, the prohibition against men wearing women’s clothing is a cultural feeling, not a “natural” one.

I think it’s more the idea of male characters in frilly lingerie.

. . . which now I need to dress my asura in, then my sylvari, and finally my charr because it needs to be stated how absurd it is to hold the whole of the game accountable for what one race might actually look like in armor.

Two races lack notable defining characteristics of gender, and a third is almost decidedly non-gendered except in the case of aesthetics. Of the two left, almost everyone seems to think norn are ugly no matter what, so . . .

We’re really only complaining about humans.

I didn’t read the first four pages but if there is one constant since launch, it’s that Anet don’t listen one bit about any demands concerning armor looks. I have never ever seen one reply from a Dev about armor looks not one. Yeah it turns me off too but I’ve given up on this subject. The old skirt pants trench coat and skimpy looks post we’ve seen them all except Anet.

I don’t like trench coats at all, or rather . . . I don’t like the design of half of them I can use. I did like the old Monument Armor.

This seems like a good place to repost this screenshot.

Tachenon.5270:

This seems like a good place to repost this screenshot.

. . . you are going to get us shut down for 18+ content! It’s too much!

I do somewhat like the medium monument armour, except the stripes throw me off :p

Hybarf Tics.2048:

I didn’t read the first four pages but if there is one constant since launch, it’s that Anet don’t listen one bit about any demands concerning armor looks. I have never ever seen one reply from a Dev about armor looks not one. Yeah it turns me off too but I’ve given up on this subject. The old skirt pants trench coat and skimpy looks post we’ve seen them all except Anet.

Don’t assume that because there is a bunch of people asking for less skimpy armors that it is representative of the majority of the playerbase, or even most of this forum.

There was quite a popular strawpoll thread a few months back on this very forum asking people here their preferences in terms of armors. In the end, it basically shows that those who want non-skimpy armors are just much louder.

http://strawpoll.me/1772447/r

Ashariel, that poll does neither prove nor disprove anything. It’s not representative, and if it were, the difference between “prefers skimpy” and “prefers non-skimpy” is not that big. So yeah, we’re not “just louder”, we just decide to speak up once in a while.

In the end, though, it’s Anets choice, but they also have to deal with the consequences, a.k.a. people not buying the skimpy stuff in the gem store.

Edit: Hm, that sounded way harsher than I meant it. Point is, with a player base as large as GW2’s, a poll with 1.3k votes, unsupervised in the sense that people probably voted more than once for one option, and started by someone who’s not Anet on a 3rd party site, is not the best way to get a definitive impression of the situation. A poll by Anet, here in the forum, only accessible by registered players (and only once per person), that would be much more informative (and yeah, regardless of the outcome, I’d accept that. I’m not an idiot, I just don’t put much trust in this kind of intenet survey).

Hybarf Tics.2048:

I didn’t read the first four pages but if there is one constant since launch, it’s that Anet don’t listen one bit about any demands concerning armor looks. I have never ever seen one reply from a Dev about armor looks not one. Yeah it turns me off too but I’ve given up on this subject. The old skirt pants trench coat and skimpy looks post we’ve seen them all except Anet.

And I can understand why. I’m sure anet is more concerned about what their gemstore spreadsheets tell them rather then what a vocal minority has to say on the forums. From just walking around lions arch, it’s pretty obvious that phalanx armor is one of the most popular skins for heavy classes even though it’s one of the most obnoxious examples of gratuitous gender-based discrepancies in a set of armor.

People buy skimpy armor for their female humans – it sells. And people tend to dress their males as “cool” rather than skimpy. I wish that anet would experiment with more equity between the male and female versions of armor, but I can hardly blame them for providing more of what is popular. At the end of the day they are a business.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Tuomir.1830:

Ohoni.6057:

Well, in games, Scarlet wasn’t sexualized, nor was Faolain, or Teoh. I can’t think of a ton of female game villains though, sexualized or otherwise.

I wasn’t talking about GW2, but of games in general.

. . . are we on the same page here? For every time I think of a female villain type, I can think of another two which weren’t sexualized. The best ones weren’t.

The Boss, Maleficent, Jenna Angel (though not sure if she counts), Takhisis, Director Isard, Cinder Fall, Olivia Dunham, Captain DuPree, Control, Utuk’ku, Lolth, Varesh Ossa, and the Lady of Pain.

Oh, and funnily I recalled a book by Jeff Grubb which had on the cover the “stereotypical stab-me-here” chainmail bikini – in story it existed only as ceremonial garb and the character herself commented on how pointless it was. Alias of the Azure Bonds.

Well, as is always, experience may vary, and I’m always happy to see well designed characters. I was merely making a side observation to accompany my side note.

To actually bring something noteworthy into the discussion, I figure my characters to be an extension of my persona, and as such what they wear is an expression of myself. The male wardrobe feels rather limited in comparison to the female wardrobe when it comes to flair and boldness.

Tuomir.1830:

The male wardrobe feels rather limited in comparison to the female wardrobe when it comes to flair and boldness.

That’s another odd difference, though this time, it actually works in favour of female characters (if we ignore the weird bikini things). Particularly the light armour sets tend to look very similar on male characters, while the female sets have significant differences. It’s one of the reasons I don’t have a male caster; the male armour options are rather boring. I mean, come on, the Winged armour is literally missing the wings! There’s something that looks like bug’s wings on the back of the skirt, but compared to the gorgeous female design, it just looks sad. Phoenix armour – same thing. Aurora armour, Apprentice armour, even the Heritage armour, they all look so similar, it hardly makes a difference what you wear. Outside of dungeon sets, the options are very limited.

Going to try to restrain myself from addressing point for point.

Red Queen.7915:

The problem is that a lot of these women, while sometimes great characters, and sometimes horrible ones, are depicted as overly sexual. Flaunting your boobs and posing for maximum visibility of your butt all the time is not the norm for women, nor should it be. It certainly isn’t for men. The characters are, more often than not, not the problem. It’s artists who use old tropes and cliches to dress them up, thus reinforcing stereotypes like, for example, “sexually independent women are evil, modest ones are good and pure”. That’s disgusting, and not fit for a modern, equal world. Red Sonja (since she’s in this already) kicks butt. She’s awesome in a bunch of ways. But she wears something no woman in her right mind would ever wear into battle.

Again, and as it was mentioned before, the examples that aren’t what most would describe as “overly sexual” tend to be glossed over and yet it still doesn’t undo the fact that yeah, some of those “overly sexual” examples aren’t that “overly sexual”. And even then, it doesn’t undo the fact that those examples, while being “overly sexual” are still powerful, heroic, etc.

And when you boil down your argument, you’re complaining about some kitten and boob shots. Is that really something to dismiss an entire character’s actions over? Or are you just using them as a statistic to win a tally war over who’s got the moral high ground?

In summary: you’re not giving the examples that aren’t one of your tallies due respect, you might also be overly sensitive about sexualization of appearance, and even if true, some of those sexualized characters are still awesome.

Red Queen.7915:

That in itself wouldn’t be so bad, but it’s so kitten prevalent, and other options are so scarce, that is what sucks. Not the bikini itself, but the frequency in which it is used, even when it makes no kitten sense, juts to have a woman in a bikini.

You’d get a lot of people to agree with you if you just stuck with this. The point when you cross over to gender portrayals and social equalities, you rock the boat in lots of unintentional ways.

Red Queen.7915:

As for me interpreting and projecting, words have meanings and connotations, especially in charged discussions like this. If we go by grammar, your use of “nonsense” referred to “powerful and heroic”, which in turn referred to “women”. That is an unfortunate choice of words if that’s not what you meant. But how am I supposed to know that?

Context too. “Nonsense” is attached to the context of your argument, not to the descriptors of “powerful and heroic” nor the subject of “women”.

Red Queen.7915:

I did also never refer to powerful and heroic being dude-exclusive. They are just mostly dude-exclusive in forms that have nothing sexual attached. Female villains more often that not have their sex appealn dialed up to 11. Female heroes not quite as often, but still often enough. That is the difference that irritates me and countless others….

I don’t have the time or motivation to try to collect list of examples you’d choose to cherry-pick apart to dismiss them as a minority only to post them in a thread that will be locked and forgotten.

The thing you have to remember when looking for male examples, they are under different types of tropes. No they won’t fit similar characteristics as the female ones, but that is because your issues lie in social depictions of genders and such attributes are portrayed, sought after and perpetuated differently. Like a chainmail bikini male you’d find might exist, but nobody cares about a male wearing one thus few are portrayed that way.

Red Queen.7915:

I’d wager they wouldn’t. Do you have any idea how awesome it would be for a game to have this, without making a big deal out of it?

Unless you think a game could survive on its MA rating audience, you’re completely missing the point. In such a point, it doesn’t matter who’s the loudest (because the loudest will be the moms and politicians that don’t play games at all), only what is normally allowed and what is controversial. Do you want a game dev who focuses on making an engaging game or a dev focused on making social statements and wrestling with legal discontent?