Guild Wars 2

I have leveled a Thief to 80 and find that there is nothing to attract me to the game anymore. I mostly play PvP in MMOs but since there is no real gear progression like in WoW I am not drawn to it. I am unable to play PvP simply for “fun” because the fun for me is in the progression. PvE does not offer anything that interests me either.

That said, I do love the combat, graphics style and surprisingly, leveling. Leveling in this game is the funnest thing for me so far, but with nothing to look forward to at the top of the ladder, that too loses purpose.

I would suggest Arenanet to add more endgame material.

Enjoy the massive fanboy aggro. Every time one of us complains about the lack of endgame content a dozen of them show up telling us that we “played too much” “rushed to 80” and “burned out the content” etc.

Apparently the way the game is “supposed” to be played is taking a 5-hour break each level to do competitive synchronized /dance competitions in Lion’s Arch.

WTB more endgame.

Put your flamecoat on.

…no real gear progression like in WoW…

Yet another person buys the game with this expectation, in spite of years of advertising to the contrary, and complains when this wish isn’t reflected by reality. ’Tis baffling.

So it begins…

I miss civil discussions of pertinent topics.

do a dungeon run with newbs and be a hero

There is a “things to do at 80” thread.
I would suggest giving it a read.
Lots of progression to be had there.

While I do agree that a shift from destination to journey is a positive for MMOs, I do not believe GW2 has done that quite yet and as a result the game does require end game content. As far as fanboy aggro, I welcome all points of view on the matter.

Shifting from destination to journey’s all well and good, but when the journey takes a casual player a week or so to complete, then there just ain’t enough journey. You can roll a new character, but then you’re just repeating everything you’ve already done.

The selling point of MMOs is infinite replayability. Not seeing it, and it’s a shame.

Oh look, this thread again…

I haven’t reached level 80 yet, as I’m only at level 30, but I have been playing pretty casually. I’m enjoying talking in map discussions on my server, doing a little roleplaying on the side, starting up crafting, and making sure I do map completions. Every time I see a group event, I go to it (if I can), and everytime I see a random event that I haven’t done yet, I’ll do it. It adds a lot to the game. And it’s fun to do a personal storyline with another character and see what they’re up to.

Make another character of a different race and a different profession. The personal story line is going to be completely different, and that may help you. Fortunately, GW does come out with expansion packs so this is definitely not the end of content for the game.

Regardless of how you label a game, the end result needs to be one that is enjoyable for a lengthy period of time (or so I hope). I believe this game has large potential but in its current state it is not reaching that potential.

The reference points that I’m using are mostly Diablo 2 and WoW. I played both of those games for years. With Guild Wars I found myself at a loss for things to do after the three week mark. Don’t get me wrong, I very much want to keep playing GW2, but I need things to do.

lookitsandrea.8531:

I haven’t reached level 80 yet, as I’m only at level 30, but I have been playing pretty casually. I’m enjoying talking in map discussions on my server, doing a little roleplaying on the side, starting up crafting, and making sure I do map completions. Every time I see a group event, I go to it (if I can), and everytime I see a random event that I haven’t done yet, I’ll do it. It adds a lot to the game. And it’s fun to do a personal storyline with another character and see what they’re up to.

Make another character of a different race and a different profession. The personal story line is going to be completely different, and that may help you. Fortunately, GW does come out with expansion packs so this is definitely not the end of content for the game.

An excellent example of a constructive post. Thank you, sir.

So… roll a new character of a different race… and replay all the same content with a slightly different looking avatar you play in a slightly different way. It’s like a veil has been lifted from over my eyes. Thank you!

Yeah, you’re adding a lot to the discussion. Thanks for that.

Revenant.2691:

So… roll a new character of a different race… and replay all the same content with a slightly different looking avatar you play in a slightly different way. It’s like a veil has been lifted from over my eyes. Thank you!

Yeah, you’re adding a lot to the discussion. Thanks for that.

Actually your leveling experience will be very different on alts as your biography choices change your story quests and bring you to zones your previous story quests didn’t. So just make different choices when creating your character and you’ll have a different leveling experience.

I feel it pertinent to mention that rerolling a new character- regardless of how different the quest chains are- is not endgame content.

Ye know what this notion is, of requiring Warcraft/Diablo-style endgame content? It is, very simply:

“I enjoy my character being Bad. Once my character is Good, I no longer wish to use it.”

Such things as ‘gear progression’ are quite simply a long and usually arduous obstacle course being thrown in front of the character being, in a competitive/capability standpoint, complete. Without teh phat lewtz, one cannot do RAIDS, and as we all know from years of experience, RAIDS are the only type of endgame content that can ever possibly be fulfilling, rewarding, or worth buying a game for. Ironically…because RAIDS drop teh phat lewtz. or they do about one RAID in every five hundred, and when characters require about a dozen such drops for their character to hit maximum achievable power…well yes, you HAVE so-called ‘endgame’ content, but it’s not really content. Tacking some piece of phat lewtz onto the end of a horrifying grind train doesn’t really equal content.

Yes, I get that currently the level 80 activities in GW2 are slim. It’d be nice if they beefed it up. Adding a completely unneeded and largely unwanted gear progression isn’t the way to go. we’ve got…every other MMO in existence…for that sort of junk. it’s old, it’s tired, it’s not fun anymore, and I’d argue it was never really fun in the first place. It’d be much more preferable (to me, at least), for ArenaNet to work on expanding Orr, perhaps fill it out into something of an endless WvW competition against the undead. Fight to hold ground, perhaps even to earn and retain WvW-like bonuses that apply only to players in the Orrian areas, thus giving them an incentive to hang around and contribute. Something active, with tangible and immediate benefits which are nonetheless not critical to one’s enjoyment of the game. That’d be something cool to see.

What wouldn’t be cool to see is ArenaNet caving to the cries of Endgamers (as numerous as the swiftly derided fanboys you guys are scorning, ne?) who see Endgame as precisely one of two things: endless gear progression or RAIDS, the latter of which put into place largely as a glitzy way to disguise the former. There really is more to gaming than RAIDS and pharming teh lewtz, guys. Let ArenaNet work on it, maybe they’ll surprise you.

Velvet.4678:

I feel it pertinent to mention that rerolling a new character- regardless of how different the quest chains are- is not endgame content.

And I never said it was. Just pointing out the fallacy of him saying rolling a new character would be leveling through all the same content again. It wouldn’t.

Good points. The game does not necessarily require gear progression or raids, but it does require something to replace them. Something I would like to see would be real world pvp where different guild vie for non-instanced fortifications around the world.

That is a mere example and I would dare Arenanet to be more creative.

At any rate, the point is that some people do not want raids or gear treadmills. I get that. But simply throwing those things out the window and not putting something meaningful in their stead is not an answer.

I think the problem is people expect progression from mmos. Its part of the flavor of it. The psychology behind it could be the feeling of acheiving something.

I cant say how to fix every problem but i do miss the feeling of possibly getting some thing crazy, the gamble of wondering if i’ll get this awsome peice of gear or item off the boss in a dungeon. As it stands the chests in dungeons are just extra crap to break down or sell to a vendor to pay for your repair cost (and hopefully come out on top). I never get excited when a chest drops and the only excitement at the end of a dungeon is the same boring tokens (which is bugged for me atm 3 days away and i still get 30 per run). I think more rewards is necessary as well as more means to use them. As for spvp…its only lacking is non-free tournaments with rankings to allow people to boast their kitten the way they do on games like League of legends…once they put that in, they might as well cut the time it takes to level in spvp in half then half again…its impossible for a casual to hit level 40 in under a year as it stands….(was this intended?) Leave speacial glory items from winning tournaments to those who wanna grind on there all day…tbh its bizzare as hell to me why i cant just use my pve skins in spvp. I dont know how that hurts anyone….i’d be equally ok with someone earning a leet item from a tourny in pvp showing it off in pve. why not? there are so many ways to earn cosmetic gear…they all transfer in every aspect cept spvp..and while i understand the reasoning to try to keep it somewhat seperate..i think this way is the wrong way. anyway, i dont have all the solutions just wanted to add this.

Fanboys are starting to run out of arguments when trying to make up for this design flaw.

There IS no activity to do once you reach level 80. You can tell whatever you want, but most of the “suggested things to do” are very subjective and I believe not every player would like to grind DEs over and over and over and over for millions of karma to make a Legendary weapon (whose skins look terrible if you ask my opinion).

After getting my Guardian to 80, getting full Exotics, all the skins I wanted, 100% map completion and all jump puzzles/dungeon paths I simply have NOTHING left to do besides WvW, which is incredibly one-sided and unfun on my server. There is no point on leveling another toon to 80 either, unless I feel like re-experiencing leveling which I don’t thanks to 100% map completion.

I do not want to see gear progression and raids on GW2, this is the primary reason I bought it on the first place, I was expecting something NEW from endgame, since this is a MMORPG, supposedly a game with infinite replayability. What I received? Nothing at all lol. I log in 20 minutes a day to collect gold from TP and reinvest.

You say you like PvP, but then decry that you enter PvP on pretty much the same level gear-wise as everybody else, that there’s no progression?

You might think you like PvP but it is clear you do not. You enjoy stomping people who don’t have the time to invest that you do, but don’t enjoy competing on equal footing.

Try to outplay and out-think your enemies in PvP. Play well and play smart, because your time isn’t going to give you an unfair advantage over everyone else that will turn on your Godmode.

You’re basically complaining that Chess is boring because if you spend a lot of time playing it your pawns won’t turn into queens and allow you to stomp new players. That’s ridiculous. If you enjoy PvP, get out there and enjoy PvPing people. Good PvP — and WvWvW is the best PvP I’ve come across in an MMO since DAoC’s Frontiers — is its own reward.

Velvet.4678:

but since there is no real gear progression like in WoW I am not drawn to it.

Misinformed purchase, sorry.
Hope you had fun, see you next expansion if you get bored of the grinds out there.

warmonkey.8013:

You say you like PvP, but then decry that you enter PvP on pretty much the same level gear-wise as everybody else, that there’s no progression?

You might think you like PvP but it is clear you do not. You enjoy stomping people who don’t have the time to invest that you do, but don’t enjoy competing on equal footing.

Try to outplay and out-think your enemies in PvP. Play well and play smart, because your time isn’t going to give you an unfair advantage over everyone else that will turn on your Godmode.

You’re basically complaining that Chess is boring because if you spend a lot of time playing it your pawns won’t turn into queens and allow you to stomp new players. That’s ridiculous. If you enjoy PvP, get out there and enjoy PvPing people. Good PvP — and WvWvW is the best PvP I’ve come across in an MMO since DAoC’s Frontiers — is its own reward.

Allow me to clarify: I enjoyed battleground PvP in WoW. The feeling of gaining new items and becoming more powerful was what kept me in it. Had it not been for the PvP gear progression, I suspect I would not have played WoW for as long as I did.

I will not deny that I liked it when I, as someone who spent more time on PvP and therefore outgeared my competition, was able to defeat other players who did not put the time in. The ultimate purpose in a video game (as I see it) is to enter a world where things that are impossible in real life, are possible. One of those things being having the ability to become stronger than the competition to experience a feeling of power. Standing out through skill is something that requires a tremendous time commitment and coordination with other players. I simply do not want to invest that time.

Regardless of the reasons, PvP in GW2 does not make me want to do it. The feelings I associate with GW2 PvPare not thrill and exhilaration of advancement but boredom of repetition (not saying WoW PvP was not repetitive).

Revenant.2691:

The selling point of MMOs is infinite replayability.

This was NEVER the selling point of ANY MMO. This is the absurd expectation a certain demographic has come to have of them, though, mistaking infinite repetition for infinite “playability”.

And no, this is not a condemnation of the genre, which I like just fine. It’s not even a condemnation of treadmill progression games, because they have their niche and I think they fill it well. Some people want to be the greyhound, forever chasing the mechanical rabbit but never catching it, and that’s alright.

It’s a condemnation of the bankrupt logic that anything will ever offer you infinite entertainment, especially for $60 up front, or even $15 a month. The very idea of it is absolutely absurd, and I cannot believe otherwise rational adults can even float the idea out there without breaking down into guffaws.

The selling point of MMOs is playing your game, whatever it might be…FPS, RTS, RPG…with hundreds of other people playing alongside you, either cooperating or competing. That’s it. That’s the selling point. Does player interaction create a level of dynamic experience that does not exist in a single player game? Certainly. But no one ever said it was always positive, or that even that stays interesting forever. You’ll get bored of ANYTHING eventually.

No one wants to play games any more. They want to foment addictions, and then react with petulant outrage when it doesn’t happen. Only 400 hours for $60? Rubbish! What am I supposed to do with my time now? READ?

Velvet.4678:

Allow me to clarify: I enjoyed battleground PvP in WoW. The feeling of gaining new items and becoming more powerful was what kept me in it. Had it not been for the PvP gear progression, I suspect I would not have played WoW for as long as I did.

I will not deny that I liked it when I, as someone who spent more time on PvP and therefore outgeared my competition, was able to defeat other players who did not put the time in. The ultimate purpose in a video game (as I see it) is to enter a world where things that are impossible in real life, are possible. One of those things being having the ability to become stronger than the competition to experience a feeling of power. Standing out through skill is something that requires a tremendous time commitment and coordination with other players. I simply do not want to invest that time.

Regardless of the reasons, PvP in GW2 does not make me want to do it. The feelings I associate with GW2 PvPare not thrill and exhilaration of advancement but boredom of repetition (not saying WoW PvP was not repetitive).

Everything you’ve just described is why WoW’s PvP was fundamentally AWFUL, in a way that can’t ever be repaired. You simply cannot have any kind of competitive sport or contest in which one party accumulates a crushing advantage simply by indulging their innate appetite for and/or ability to endure tedium. Your automatic wins by virtue of having numerically superior equipment are even less compelling than a participation trophy. Do you enjoy playing single player games with the cheat codes on? The experience is functionally identical.

I enjoyed WoW a lot, and there are many great things to admire about that game, but a PvP system lashed to a progression treadmill is broken.

Good input spectacularyak. I sense an undercurrent of anger in all of your posts that is unnecessary, however. Different people like different things. While you say the system was awful, people like me will disagree with you.

Velvet.4678:

Good input spectacularyak. I sense an undercurrent of anger in all of your posts that is unnecessary, however. Different people like different things. While you say the system was awful, people like me will disagree with you.

I’m saying it’s awful for PvP. While you might enjoy it, it does not change the fact that as a competitive exercise it’s absolutely horrible. One of the most essential elements of any competitive experience is the concept of the level playing field. Once you abandon that, you don’t have anything resembling actual competition any more. You have…uh…how to put this. A particular form of “self abuse”. In video game form.

And what you’re detecting isn’t anger, it’s irritation/astonishment at the concept that every bloody game needs to be shackled to this anachronistic “infinite progression” nightmare or it’s not a real game. That playing a video game for 200-400 hours isn’t any kind of reward, I need a reward for playing the video game! In the form of a new SWORD. A sword that will let me play the video game for another 200-400 hours, while hitting slightly harder. I’m sure you can understand why having this debate over and over and over and over and over and over and over might eventually cause a sense of incremental pressure to build behind ones eyes.

Yup I agree. Its funny how fanboys will post 10 stupid excuses for endgame like exploring, outrun a centaur, farming gold. Or they will say well that isn’t how gw2 endgame works, like GW2 has some revolutionary dynamic endgame ,yet no one can explain what it is. People say WoW heroics and raids are all about grinding. Well then what are legendary items? That is grinding to an extreme level. As least heroics and raids you progress with learning the fights and getting better gear one piece at a time. The mystic forge is a complete grinding trap.

Dsmac

…fanboys…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attitude_polarization

There’s your fanboys. The fun thing about confirmation bias is that it is not limited to people liking things, it applies equally to hating them. 95% of the time anyone using the term “Fanboy” un-ironically is just as neck deep in bias as the people they’re decrying, they’re just oblivious to it.

It’s the forum equivalent of two opposing groups shouting “NO U” at one another. Gripping stuff, really.

If you liked leveling – 100% the game. It is the exact same content if you were level 30 or 80, just a bit easier. Well try to at least with broken SP’s etc.

If you have 100% the entire game, hate dungeons, hate PvP. Well grats. It was the same feeling I got with Guild Wars 1. After all what was the point after finishing a campaign and hitting cap/cheap max gear.

Then I quit and came back for each expansion. Guild wars 2 is built for the exact same idea’s. Those that wanna force other style MMO endgame just won’t get it here. No fanboy argument about it. You hit the literal END of the game for you.

Quit and come back later. It is buy to play for this very reason.

Granted I would like more endgame zones and some new dungeons. Doubt we will get those for awhile, but anyone that is “opposed” to new content (As long as it follows GW2 formula) are shooting themselves in the foot.

Well, to put it in perspective, I played Anarchy Online for 8 years straight without ever getting bored, then had to quit because I went off to college. When I get bored with this supposed “Next-gen MMO which will redefine the genre” after a couple weeks, then yes, I think there’s a problem.

On top of this, the fact that there are a couple dozen “We don’t need an endgame! Here are some asinine self-imposed challenges and/or grinding experiences to keep you interested after you’ve completely exhausted the content of this game!” threads a month after release. Case rested.

Gear progression isn’t true progression, your gear is being strong for you. Canonically, you are just as strong in greens, only the purples are made of tougher metal (or leather, or whatever).

SpectacularYak.6518:

Dsmac

…fanboys…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attitude_polarization

There’s your fanboys. The fun thing about confirmation bias is that it is not limited to people liking things, it applies equally to hating them. 95% of the time anyone using the term “Fanboy” un-ironically is just as neck deep in bias as the people they’re decrying, they’re just oblivious to it.

It’s the forum equivalent of two opposing groups shouting “NO U” at one another. Gripping stuff, really.

So you want me to bust out wiki links as well? Maybe link a straw man article? Good for you, you have a bachelors in psychology as well as I. Are my points invalid, because I feel that many players are so devoted to this game that they haven’t provided a good counter argument? That most counter points are silly excuses for a endgame. Many players that play MMORPGs for continuous progression. How many posts are there about this mentality is seen as broken, like the way we enjoy games is wrong? People arn’t posting here, because they want GW2 to fail. They are posting here, because they want something more and for the game to succeed.

Yes to someone who is actually biased you owned my argument, destroyed all my credibility, made all my points invalid. However in reality many posts about wanting an endgame and how there are numerous excuses for an “endgame” are still valid. What GW2 now has for a endgame is truley the end of a game.

O yea 95% of statistics are made up on the spot, your post is full of irony.

You want a gear grind?

Legendaries.

Get crackin’

Well, you could:

Complete your personal story
Defeat Zhaitan
Unlock all available skills for your profession / race
Raise your crafting disciplines to skill level 400
Earn enough gold to purchase a racial armor set
Earn enough karma to purchase an exotic armor set
Play through all dungeons in story mode
Complete all dungeons in explorable mode
Complete all 33 possible explorable mode dungeon paths
Earn enough dungeon tokens to purchase a set of armor
Collect a set of armor from each dungeon in the game
Start a petition to make the Undead Orrian Chicken a new necro minion
Earn enough karma to purchase a racial weapon
Craft an exotic weapon for your character
Craft an exotic armor set for your character
Purchase a Dragon’s Deep weapon
Earn all possible PvE titles
Experiment with new builds for your profession
Discover all possible recipes for your crafting disciplines
Master all crafting disciplines
Experiment with the Mystic Forge
Create a Mystic weapon in the Mystic Forge
Craft a legendary weapon in the Mystic Forge
Explore all areas in the game
Find and use a vial of black dye
Find a vial of black dye and give it to a friend
Create or purchase a full set of 20 slot bags
Give Logan a wedgie
Participate in the Norn Keg Brawl
Unlock all Keg Brawl achievements
Create a new character to experience a different profession / race
Participate in structured PvP
Raise your sPvP rank
Achieve the rank of Ascendant in sPvP
Complete your favorite sPvP cosmetic armor set
Collect new cosmetic weapon skins for sPvP
Unlock all possible cosmetic weapon and armor skins in sPvP
Earn all sPvP titles
Find and complete all 31 jumping puzzles
Complete the current Monthly achievements
Help your guild earn influence to unlock additional perks
Outrun a centaur
Charm all possible pets as a Ranger
Create an all-ranger guild called Team Rocket, lose constantly in sPvP
Collect all 101 types of cooking materials
Fill every collection slot in the bank with at least one item
Participate in World versus World
Help your world win in WvW
Defeat enough enemy players in WvW to complete the medal
Complete the awesome Yakslapper achievement in WvW
Complete all WvW achievements
Build and use all siege weapon types in WvW
Earn all possible WvW Titles
Play the organ in Caledon forest, and party with the Quaggan
Earn enough gold to purchase a Commander Tome
Visit the monument to Killeen and pay your respects
Defeat the Shatterer
Defeat the Claw of Jormag
Defeat Tequatl the Sunless
Add new friends to your friend’s list
Organize an in-game event for your guild
Complete every map in the game
Participate in meta events
Discover and participate in new dynamic events
Collect stacks of butter and butter prank your friends
Learn the ins and outs of the Trading Post
Get rich selling Globs of Ectoplasm
Buy a Box o’ Fun and throw a party in Lion’s Arch
Complete an armor set for your character’s Order
Read all of the books in Divinity’s Reach
Read the story of how Ebonhawke was founded
Complete all possible weapon achievements for your character
Defeat the Champion of Grenth and purchase the exotic armor set
Write about your level 80 experience, have it published on GW2Hub
Purchase a set of armor from the guild armorsmith
Purchase a set of weapons from the guild weaponsmith
Complete all Slayer achievements
Complete the Lifetime Survivor achievement
Go skydiving in Arah after defeating Zhaitan

If you don’t like the endgame idea that ANet put forth, which was known for years before it released, then you shouldn’t have bought it. If you want a game where you just log in to raid, or curbstomp newbs, and nothing else then go back to WoW. It’s that simple. Ou people complain when a game is too much like WoW and you complain when a game isn’t like WoW. Just stick with WoW for crying out loud as that’s the only game you are capable of liking.

Or you could just do whatever accounts as fun to your person

or you can play another mmo with a mindlessly boring gear grind under the illusion of content

merlinr.6581:

Well, you could:

Complete your personal story
Defeat Zhaitan
Unlock all available skills for your profession / race
Raise your crafting disciplines to skill level 400
Earn enough gold to purchase a racial armor set
Earn enough karma to purchase an exotic armor set
Play through all dungeons in story mode
Complete all dungeons in explorable mode
Complete all 33 possible explorable mode dungeon paths
Earn enough dungeon tokens to purchase a set of armor
Collect a set of armor from each dungeon in the game
Start a petition to make the Undead Orrian Chicken a new necro minion
Earn enough karma to purchase a racial weapon
Craft an exotic weapon for your character
Craft an exotic armor set for your character
Purchase a Dragon’s Deep weapon
Earn all possible PvE titles
Experiment with new builds for your profession
Discover all possible recipes for your crafting disciplines
Master all crafting disciplines
Experiment with the Mystic Forge
Create a Mystic weapon in the Mystic Forge
Craft a legendary weapon in the Mystic Forge
Explore all areas in the game
Find and use a vial of black dye
Find a vial of black dye and give it to a friend
Create or purchase a full set of 20 slot bags
Give Logan a wedgie
Participate in the Norn Keg Brawl
Unlock all Keg Brawl achievements
Create a new character to experience a different profession / race
Participate in structured PvP
Raise your sPvP rank
Achieve the rank of Ascendant in sPvP
Complete your favorite sPvP cosmetic armor set
Collect new cosmetic weapon skins for sPvP
Unlock all possible cosmetic weapon and armor skins in sPvP
Earn all sPvP titles
Find and complete all 31 jumping puzzles
Complete the current Monthly achievements
Help your guild earn influence to unlock additional perks
Outrun a centaur
Charm all possible pets as a Ranger
Create an all-ranger guild called Team Rocket, lose constantly in sPvP
Collect all 101 types of cooking materials
Fill every collection slot in the bank with at least one item
Participate in World versus World
Help your world win in WvW
Defeat enough enemy players in WvW to complete the medal
Complete the awesome Yakslapper achievement in WvW
Complete all WvW achievements
Build and use all siege weapon types in WvW
Earn all possible WvW Titles
Play the organ in Caledon forest, and party with the Quaggan
Earn enough gold to purchase a Commander Tome
Visit the monument to Killeen and pay your respects
Defeat the Shatterer
Defeat the Claw of Jormag
Defeat Tequatl the Sunless
Add new friends to your friend’s list
Organize an in-game event for your guild
Complete every map in the game
Participate in meta events
Discover and participate in new dynamic events
Collect stacks of butter and butter prank your friends
Learn the ins and outs of the Trading Post
Get rich selling Globs of Ectoplasm
Buy a Box o’ Fun and throw a party in Lion’s Arch
Complete an armor set for your character’s Order
Read all of the books in Divinity’s Reach
Read the story of how Ebonhawke was founded
Complete all possible weapon achievements for your character
Defeat the Champion of Grenth and purchase the exotic armor set
Write about your level 80 experience, have it published on GW2Hub
Purchase a set of armor from the guild armorsmith
Purchase a set of weapons from the guild weaponsmith
Complete all Slayer achievements
Complete the Lifetime Survivor achievement
Go skydiving in Arah after defeating Zhaitan

I really hated this post. Even when I first read it, I felt it was full of garbage fluff to give the appearance of entertainment value.

You can also just about cut that entire list in half because a majority of the line items are repeats of one another…

Complete your personal story
Defeat Zhaitan

Earn enough gold to purchase a racial armor set
Earn enough karma to purchase an exotic armor set

Play through all dungeons in story mode
Complete all dungeons in explorable mode
Complete all 33 possible explorable mode dungeon paths

Participate in structured PvP
Raise your sPvP rank
Achieve the rank of Ascendant in sPvP

… and on and on, while another bucket of line items are just worthless filler.

Give Logan a wedgie
Outrun a centaur
Add new friends to your friend’s list
Create an all-ranger guild called Team Rocket, lose constantly in sPvP
Start a petition to make the Undead Orrian Chicken a new necro minion
Visit the monument to Killeen and pay your respects

Dsmac

So you want me to bust out wiki links as well? Maybe link a straw man article? Good for you, you have a bachelors in psychology as well as I. Are my points invalid, because I feel that many players are so devoted to this game that they haven’t provided a good counter argument? That most counter points are silly excuses for a endgame. Many players that play MMORPGs for continuous progression. How many posts are there about this mentality is seen as broken, like the way we enjoy games is wrong? People arn’t posting here, because they want GW2 to fail. They are posting here, because they want something more and for the game to succeed.

Yes to someone who is actually biased you owned my argument, destroyed all my credibility, made all my points invalid. However in reality many posts about wanting an endgame and how there are numerous excuses for an “endgame” are still valid. What GW2 now has for a endgame is truley the end of a game.

O yea 95% of statistics are made up on the spot, your post is full of irony.

Feeling defensive?

1. You can’t make the “the way we enjoy games is wrong” boo-hooery complaint, while at the same time slamming “fanboys” for their “devotion”. Either you acknowledge that different people like different things, or you do not. Where things start to break down is when you start demanding that things you don’t like be changed to suit your preferences. If I don’t like a game, I don’t play the game. I don’t demand the game change core mechanics to suit my whims.

2. All games, even MMOs, reach a point of content exhaustion. You can either stop playing the game at that point, or ride a treadmill that gives you the illusion of progress. As I said previously in the thread, I have no problem with people wanting to chase a carrot they never catch. I don’t necessarily UNDERSTAND it, but I have no problem with it. I do have a problem with them demanding that every game feature carrots they cannot catch, and if it doesn’t have them they start making outraged demands on internet forums.

3. An educated adult using the term “fanboy” is fairly precious. Like “hater”, “fanboy” is just a way to poison the well and hand wave any criticism of a position. They disagree with me? Oh, they must be fanboys. I’m actually fairly irritated with the game at the moment and have a list of complaints a mile long, but because I disagree with the cult of Infinite Progression and Watching Numbers Go Up As a Stand In For Gameplay I must necessarily be a “fanboy” blinded by my devotion to the game. So if you want to bust out wiki articles, by all means, fill your boots. While you’re at it, find me one that explains why all forms of entertainment need to have progression attached to them in order to be worth anyone’s time.

merlinr.6581:

Complete your personal story
Unlock all available skills for your profession / race
Raise your crafting disciplines to skill level 400
Earn enough karma/gold/badges/tokens to purchase an exotic armor/weapon set
Play through all dungeons in story/explorable mode
Explore all areas in the game (100% World Completion)
Create a new character to experience a different profession / race
Participate in structured PvP
Participate in World versus World
Find and complete all 31 jumping puzzles

*Collect a set of armor from each dungeon in the game
*Craft a Legendary

Condensed into a sensible list without the absurd duplication/fluff items. It’s still reasonable for a launch MMO, although some of that content (story, dungeons) needs a lot of work, and some of it…like world completion…is a flat out headache with the game as buggy as it is.

(*) for stuff that presently requires a punitive grind.

I think the fact that so many people complain about the lack of content kinda suggests that either Anet failed to make the game right, or they failed to advertise it right.. I mean it’s not just one or two confused hobos who don’t have a clue what’s going on, it’s a pretty sizable amount of people.
That’s a problem, one way or another.

Also this may not be Anet, but thousands of people constantly claiming with total holy confidence that GW2 will be the MMO that kills off all other MMOs, particularly WoW, because it’s just so unimaginably awesome on all thinkable points.
After having listened to that rant for years, I think it’s justified that people are slightly meh, when they figure out there’s nothing to do after a few weeks of play.

SpectacularYak.6518:

merlinr.6581:

Complete your personal story
Unlock all available skills for your profession / race
Raise your crafting disciplines to skill level 400
Earn enough karma/gold/badges/tokens to purchase an exotic armor/weapon set
Play through all dungeons in story/explorable mode
Explore all areas in the game (100% World Completion)
Create a new character to experience a different profession / race
Participate in structured PvP
Participate in World versus World
Find and complete all 31 jumping puzzles

*Collect a set of armor from each dungeon in the game
*Craft a Legendary

Condensed into a sensible list without the absurd duplication/fluff items. It’s still reasonable for a launch MMO, although some of that content (story, dungeons) needs a lot of work, and some of it…like world completion…is a flat out headache with the game as buggy as it is.

(*) for stuff that presently requires a punitive grind.

Someone else “condensed” that as well in another thread; yet you’re still pretty much left with very little to do aside from PvP and W3. Everything else is either completable in a few days or just a boring grind. Now I’m not arguing with anyone here; I have my personal opinions of the game (that they certainly do need to rethink how they’ll cater to level 80 players). I just wished they would’ve taken a bit more time to polish this game off before release so I wouldn’t have had such a sour first impression.

Complete your personal story
Unlock all available skills for your profession / race
Raise your crafting disciplines to skill level 400
Explore all areas in the game (100% World Completion)

Done.

Find and complete all 31 jumping puzzles

Not done, but has a relatively brief period of gameplay.

Earn enough karma/gold/badges/tokens to purchase an exotic armor/weapon set
*Collect a set of armor from each dungeon in the game
*Craft a Legendary

No thanks, I’d rather play than grind for stuff.

Play through all dungeons in story/explorable mode

I’ll wait until they are less buggy.

Create a new character to experience a different profession / race
Participate in structured PvP
Participate in World versus World

This is pretty much it for continuous gameplay.

I see there’s a lot of essays and lists going on in this thread. I’m going to move away from that and put it quite simply:

You want more end-game content? Okay. There’s going to be content patches that’ll add that soon. Just sit tight and roll some alts if you’re bored.

I bought this game because i read that there will be no extreme gear progression and that you will not grind endlessly for them. Sure enough i got my full set of exotics armor/weapons/jewel after 3 days (add another day for runes and back). Another reason is because of Jeremy Soule’s music are epic. These two are enough for the $80 i paid.

I’d be more than happy with 2 things for now:

a) Diminishing returns going away so that I can actually level an alt through crafting.

and most importantly

b) Non-tournament SPVP needs a party join feature…seriously…I could wait for new content to be made if I could at least get to PvP with my friends without having to cross our fingers to be on the same team…

Allow me to clarify: I enjoyed battleground PvP in WoW. The feeling of gaining new items and becoming more powerful was what kept me in it. Had it not been for the PvP gear progression, I suspect I would not have played WoW for as long as I did.

I will not deny that I liked it when I, as someone who spent more time on PvP and therefore outgeared my competition, was able to defeat other players who did not put the time in. The ultimate purpose in a video game (as I see it) is to enter a world where things that are impossible in real life, are possible. One of those things being having the ability to become stronger than the competition to experience a feeling of power. Standing out through skill is something that requires a tremendous time commitment and coordination with other players. I simply do not want to invest that time.

Regardless of the reasons, PvP in GW2 does not make me want to do it. The feelings I associate with GW2 PvPare not thrill and exhilaration of advancement but boredom of repetition (not saying WoW PvP was not repetitive).

Here’s the deal. You say that standing out through skill alone is something that requires a tremendous time commitment — I, however, say that standing out through gear is what takes a tremendous time commitment.

Firstly, throw away caring about being the top 5% — the Big Names, the famous folk, the people whose characters will be remembered by their enemies for years to come.
That’s a clique that probably none of us will ever occupy, and that’s cool. Those people put in the time, not just playing the game but understanding the game. It’s not just a time sink, it’s a constant learning experience.

I’m not the best PvPer in the world. In fact, sometimes I’m downright awful. Sometimes I do fantastic things (I’m still laughing about my solo charge into the back of a Darkshore zerg crossing a bridge a few days ago as I calmly stated on mumble, "explicative those guys, i’m just going to run up their explicative and AoE the explicative out of them, and it worked for once, and I was happy).

I almost always have fun, regardless. If I do bad — well, that’s on me. If I do good, well that’s on me too! At no point am I, regardless of how well I’m playing, going to lose just because some other guy was able to deal with the tedium of farming an instance to find the best gear, or because some dude happened to be the class that could easily farm PvP gear in duo tourny.

Yes, I have and do play a fair number of FPS (PC) games — I enjoy a level playing field. I’ve played somewhat competitively in a few, but I was never the best on my team even. It just so happened that through only the time investment that I was willing to offer, that I was good enough to stand out in pugs and hold my own in scrims.

That’s the beauty of it, and I hope you understand that too. Not having to worry about gear progression means that you only have to invest as much time as you enjoy spending. Period, end of story. There’s never a time that you’ll feel obligated to play, because your group needs 1 more, because you need another piece of gear, because your character’s progression requires you to keep playing to keep pace with everyone else.

Here? You only have to play as much as you enjoy playing. I don’t feel like logging in tomorrow? I won’t! I won’t miss out on anything, I won’t get left behind, I won’t have to play twice as much the next day to catch up! That is PRICELESS. Raise your hand if you ever played WoW and felt like it turned into a second job, that you were just logging in to raid or farm mats to raid and even if you didn’t really feel like it some night, you knew that if you didn’t log in and do that garbage that you’d fall behind, that you’d get bumped, that you’d not be able to do the things that you actually enjoyed doing later if you didn’t do the things you don’t so much enjoy now.

Yah… having easily acquired end-game gear means you only have to do the things you actually find fun. Yeah.. it’s fun when you get new gear.. but separate the getting of new gear from the trudging through things to get that new gear. Most MMOs make things difficult, because as we’re seeing here with GW2.. if it’s easy, people will do it fast and then complain they have nothing to do.

Those people don’t actually enjoy MMOs, they’d do just as well playing Progress Quest. They want the cookie at the end, but they’re not satisfied if they’re not made to suffer and torment and toil to get to it.

Me? Sure I’d like the cookie, but it’s not the reason I came. I’m here to party hearty, I don’t care about the cookies, I just want to log in and make stuff die and not have to worry about burdening myself with doing things I don’t enjoy just to do the things I do enjoy.

I had this awesome for world pvp where you would get to choose to play with the opposite faction (inquest/nightmare court) and you would pvp with people during events for control of the areas.

I think that would be amazing fun.

Your definition and expectation of “end game” was what they wanted to get away from and they advertised as much. If your mindset is still fixated on the “end game” you’ve grown to be accustomed to, I don’t think GW2 will ever interest you.

Wow has gear progression right? Jesus it is tedious. I stopped in the end because I couldn’t face another HOT and every time I bought a piece of valour the thought of having to run another 15 dungeons just to get another piece…. Yay, fun.

I’d like the idea of raids in GW2. Large instances dungeons, perhaps where teams of 10 had to split up and achieve goals that combined to complete the adventure, obviously with the party coming together times and the end. Perhaps part dungeon part quest, or with DEs randomly in there as we moved about, jumping puzzles, thought puzzles. Basically a mini adventure using the basic mechanics of the game but in a condensed and engaging manner.

I’m never going to get a legendary in this game. Can’t be arsed with the grind. But I went back to try MOP and what I can tell you was the first quest I did made my heart sink. Same old kitten running to and from sociopaths who only send you back to where you have been to kill/get someone/thing else and all the time I spent gearing up my character now redundant in a flash, and add to that all the time I learnt about reforging and gemming the correct secondaries wiped away because they totally changed the character…. just lost the will to play the game.

I loved PvP in WOW. Not because it was fun to gear progress but because it was against humans (mostly, of course some bots and some sub-human beings also played). Mostly I didn’t care that I could get face rolled because I was under geared because I just got a rush from the participation, though yes I would have preferred a level playing field to see if I was any good or getting better, rather than to KNOW that I was underpowered. Got about 3200 resilience before losing the will to play the game in terms of gear progression. Would then just randomly pop in and fight hoarde.

You see, the big problem with MMOs from my limited experience is repetitive play that is not fun. GW2 has lots of repetitive play too, but it isn’t on the whole targeted at making the character stronger, per se, like end of game gear progression is, which means it isn’t really as important to those who don’t like it. As such I can drop into the game when I want and have a blast then leave… especially as I am not paying a monthly tax on my initial game purchase. I feel liberated by this purchase.

I do understand people saying there is a lack of end game because at level 80 you actually want to do things that you can’t do at 79 and below. That to me is end game, not grinding new pieces of gear through repetitive farming of the same content.

So sure, if they added mini-adventures as suggested above, then bingo, something exciting to do. I guess the problem then is that the ‘hardcores’ (and to be honest, you seriously need to think about unplugging now and then, it’s frittering away an amazing thing called life quite fruitlessly) will cane the content then whine again because I have no doubt they wouldn’t be able to bosh out an instance a week. But again it comes back to the wonderful business model here. You don’t pay a monthly tax, so go and play something else and come back again when you feel like it.

If WOW was b2p I would stick at it now and then until they released a content patch which I would have paid £10 for, then the next expansion another £40 for, but because they are greedy kittens taxing me £9 a month I can’t really be arsed. I’m not paying that in case I only fancy playing 4 hours one month. Here it doesn’t matter if I only play 4 hours a month, costs me the same.

Plus, whining that fanboys will defend the game no matter what is a rather puerile and tenuous attempt to validate your personal opinions as some sort of fact… and it makes you sound like a right whiney little kitten. Just saying.

TL/DR: see your school counsellor about possible ADHD

I wonder… those gear treadmills and “character progression” stuffs basically serve the same goal as monthly fees: you HAVE to keep playing to stay competitive or “get your money’s worth”. When that happens, it’s impossible to play for relaxation and the game becomes a second job.

@OP: is this the feeling you miss? The obligation to log in to get new stuff “or else”?

Call me a fangirl, I don’t care anymore. But yeah, although there are some things that could be better in GW2, I absolutely adore the “no pressure” feeling of GW2. I don’t HAVE TO log in every day just to keep up. I love that when I get my kitten kicked in WvW, it’s because I suck, not my gear.

Since my real life has changed from having enough time to make a game my job, to actually having a fulltime job and needing a game to relax, this is fantastic. No pressure, no obligations and everything in my own sweet time.