Guild Wars 2

Some people like progressive content, they like that before you can beat X you need to have or have done Y, it gives them a feeling of accomplishment. Just because people like to accomplish something in a game does not mean they lead unfilling lives, for some reason this is a common attack in these kind of threads.

In the end it boils down to the fact that some ppl like that kind of content, some dont. That is the extent of any meaningful conversation these forums could have on the subject.

i like gw2 leveling its probably the best of all mmorps, im lvl 70 but the fact that there isnt engame content has made me leave the game before i get max level, wow leveling is kittenin boring, but the endgame in wow is so epic that the leveling worth it (and the world pvp while leveling make it even better), gw2 pvp is the most boring pvp i ve played, there is no progression, no skill required, its so slow, u cant burst someone downed state make it even slower, every class have a heal, the only spvp mode is boring as hell, this game could be good but anet focused in the wrong things, leveling will be only 100h max, i consider a mmorpg is good if i play at least 1k hours, the endgame is more important than leveling, u repeated the same fails as swtor and d3.

Duveth.5742:

i like gw2 leveling its probably the best of all mmorps, im lvl 70 but the fact that there isnt engame content has made me leave the game before i get max level, wow leveling is kittenin boring, but the endgame in wow is so epic that the leveling worth it (and the world pvp while leveling make it even better), gw2 pvp is the most boring pvp i ve played, there is no progression, no skill required, its so slow, u cant burst someone downed state make it even slower, every class have a heal, the only spvp mode is boring as hell, this game could be good but anet focused in the wrong things, leveling will be only 100h max, i consider a mmorpg is good if i play at least 1k hours, the endgame is more important than leveling, u repeated the same fails as swtor and d3.

Your comment makes me wonder if you have played any pvp at all.

Plain and simple, this game has been designed from the top down to not have a gear treadmill. if you define your progression as “I get x more points and then I get Y tier armor”, then this game has no progression for you. And that’s fine. To each his own.

What annoys me are the people that act like they were lied to, tricked, etc. in this regard. Anet’s gone out of their way to make it plain that they will NOT have a gear-based progression. Posts like are like going into a KFC and complaining that they don’t have hamburgers on the menu.

Game is one month old.

Things at 80 would be easier to do without the absurd travel fees…. Just sayin

dimgl.4786:

Game is one month old.

Yup. Not sure why people can’t grasp this

Rook: what’s your point? That is a suggestion that the development team can take into consideration when they are releasing new patches.

Game is still one month old… I haven’t been complaining. I’m having a great time with the game.

Velvet.4678:

I have leveled a Thief to 80 and find that there is nothing to attract me to the game anymore. I mostly play PvP in MMOs but since there is no real gear progression like in WoW I am not drawn to it. I am unable to play PvP simply for “fun” because the fun for me is in the progression. PvE does not offer anything that interests me either.

That said, I do love the combat, graphics style and surprisingly, leveling. Leveling in this game is the funnest thing for me so far, but with nothing to look forward to at the top of the ladder, that too loses purpose.

I would suggest Arenanet to add more endgame material.

Here’s the thing… You’ve already clarified that you only find fun in item progression. And arenanets design philosophy is essentially against this. So how will adding more end game content help solve your problem?
This isn’t to say I don’t want more content, I do… I’m just curious as to how that will help your situation in any way?

I too find myself wanting more to do. In WoWs endgame I know that everything I’m doing is leading up to endgame raiding because that’s what I always did. In this game I have no idea what I’m doing. Although I’m finding my perspective is changing the more time I spend in game.

I haven’t run out of things to do per se. After getting to 80 I maxed out my disciplines (chef/ws) then I dropped chef, picked up Armorsmith and maxed that out. Now I’m working on making my exotic gear. At first this meant farming Orr until I realized that some of the mid level mats go for a descent price so I’ve moved to doing zone completion and selling what I gather on the TP. Then I use that money to buy mats for my exotics.

I think something a lot of people aren’t realizing is it’s not efficient to farm for a specific mat. Your best bet is to run around doing other things like zone completion, following event chains, and playing a little game I call follow the nodes. Selling the gathered materials then allows you to buy what you need on the TP.

arctorius.3025:

I too find myself wanting more to do. In WoWs endgame I know that everything I’m doing is leading up to endgame raiding because that’s what I always did. In this game I have no idea what I’m doing. Although I’m finding my perspective is changing the more time I spend in game.

I haven’t run out of things to do per se. After getting to 80 I maxed out my disciplines (chef/ws) then I dropped chef, picked up Armorsmith and maxed that out. Now I’m working on making my exotic gear. At first this meant farming Orr until I realized that some of the mid level mats go for a descent price so I’ve moved to doing zone completion and selling what I gather on the TP. Then I use that money to buy mats for my exotics.

I think something a lot of people aren’t realizing is it’s not efficient to farm for a specific mat. Your best bet is to run around doing other things like zone completion, following event chains, and playing a little game I call follow the nodes. Selling the gathered materials then allows you to buy what you need on the TP.

Are you aware WoW’s endgame only flourished almost a year after its release? Vanilla WoW literally had one fifteen man raid. It wasn’t until the Molten Core patch that they released 40 mans, and even then it was the only endgame content until future patches.

Revenant.2691:

Enjoy the massive fanboy aggro. Every time one of us complains about the lack of endgame content a dozen of them show up telling us that we “played too much” “rushed to 80” and “burned out the content” etc.

Apparently the way the game is “supposed” to be played is taking a 5-hour break each level to do competitive synchronized /dance competitions in Lion’s Arch.

WTB more endgame.

Oh man I missed the part about the dancing for 5 hours. That might have slowed things down. I am on a busy schedule with work, school, and an early bedtime to rinse and repeat and I was still able to get to 80 within a month of playing almost every day.

dimgl.4786:

arctorius.3025:

I too find myself wanting more to do. In WoWs endgame I know that everything I’m doing is leading up to endgame raiding because that’s what I always did. In this game I have no idea what I’m doing. Although I’m finding my perspective is changing the more time I spend in game.

I haven’t run out of things to do per se. After getting to 80 I maxed out my disciplines (chef/ws) then I dropped chef, picked up Armorsmith and maxed that out. Now I’m working on making my exotic gear. At first this meant farming Orr until I realized that some of the mid level mats go for a descent price so I’ve moved to doing zone completion and selling what I gather on the TP. Then I use that money to buy mats for my exotics.

I think something a lot of people aren’t realizing is it’s not efficient to farm for a specific mat. Your best bet is to run around doing other things like zone completion, following event chains, and playing a little game I call follow the nodes. Selling the gathered materials then allows you to buy what you need on the TP.

Are you aware WoW’s endgame only flourished almost a year after its release? Vanilla WoW literally had one fifteen man raid. It wasn’t until the Molten Core patch that they released 40 mans, and even then it was the only endgame content until future patches.

See you are under the same misconception I was…
Little research and I found out that both molten core and onyxia were launched at release. However due to their steep attunements, very few groups had even got organised and in yet, let alone beaten anything.

This being said, this really isn’t on topic so I’ll try to bring it back a little bit.
What you item progressionists fail to realise is, arenanet did add item progression into the game. Only it has a static cap and end game playing isn’t solely focused on one single progression mechanic; Item progression.

If you really cannot enjoy a game for what it is, and absolutely require rewards of value to you for everything you do. And item progression through increasingly nicer cosmetic armors isn’t good enough for you.

Then I am afraid to say its time to play something else for a while and come back when their first monthly chapter of content is released.

Has there been an MMO published in the post-WoW era that did not generate complaints of “not enough to do?” I get by with comparing GW2 to a SP RPG because it only cost me the box price. Such games usually last 40-50 hours. So far in GW2 I have played 400 hours. I’m not even close to done on my main. Even those who accomplished all their “goals” are complaining that they only got 100 hours of enjoyment out of the game.

You and every other pve player that likes challenging content, because there just is not any challenging content that is fun to over come. Once you hit 80 and get the skins you want in less than a week, your pretty much done with the pve side of things. My solution buy war of the roses looks fun. Or roll and alt (i personally hate levleing alts)

IndigoSundown.5419:

Has there been an MMO published in the post-WoW era that did not generate complaints of “not enough to do?” I get by with comparing GW2 to a SP RPG because it only cost me the box price. Such games usually last 40-50 hours. So far in GW2 I have played 400 hours. I’m not even close to done on my main. Even those who accomplished all their “goals” are complaining that they only got 100 hours of enjoyment out of the game.

What have you been doing for 400 hours on a main? PvP? Im like 175 hours have every skin I want(all exotic) leveled my crafting (which was silly), done about 70ish % map. And now pretty bored with my guardian.

Here’s a checklist for you.

PvE:
Immerse Yourself In The World, Talk To NPCs
Complete Your Personal Story
Unlock All Skills And Test Different Builds
Get 100% World Completion
Find/Buy All Your Favorite Looking Gear With Gold And Karma
Complete All The Jumping Puzzles
Participate In Optional Events Like Keg Brawl
Max All Crafting Disciplines
Discover Hidden Recipes
Discover Mystic Forge Recipes
Craft A Legendary Weapon
Get Dungeon Armor
Complete All Dungeon Modes, In all Dungeons
Join A Guild
Create A Guild With Only One Type Of Profession
Help Your Guild Earn Influence
Make An Alt Profession And Race
Get Rich, Or Dye Trying (pun intended)

Worlds PvP:
Immerse Yourself In The World
Get 100% Map Completion
Level An Alt To 80 By Only Playing Worlds PvP
Join A Guild And Claim Captured Objectives
Help Your Guild Earn Influence For ‘Art of War’ Upgrades

Structured PvP:
Make Creative Builds, With Different Professions
Get Max Rank
Join A sPvP Guild
Play Tournament sPvP
Get All Your Favorite Looking Gear
Discover Mystic Forge sPvP Recipes

What You Shouldn’t Do:
Play The Game For 10 Hours Every Day (except if you work for ArenaNet :P)
Complete Only One Type Of Content At A Time (<— this is you grinding. Now stop it)
Rush Trough The Game (a game is meant to entertain you, not waste your time, so enjoy it! That’s an order)
Expect A Completely Different Gaming Experience At Level 80 (if you didn’t like the game up to level 80, you most likely won’t like it after)
Only Do Content For The Rewards (again, games are meant for your entertainment. If you want to gamble, then poker is an excellent game)
Expect Other Players To Need You (there is no holy trinity in this game, so no one is forced to talk to anyone that they don’t want to. It’s just like in the real world!)
Compare Guild Wars 2 Content, With WoW Content (Guild Wars 2 is one month old, WoW is seven years old)
Try To Force Yourself To Love The Game (maybe the game just isn’t for you?)

Reply to that has already been made kasama

Most of them are massive repetative grinds. Not grinds that takes 2 hours to complete 5 times , but grinds that takes 5 mins to complete, then you have to do it over and over and over 200 times.

The others are just “forced” out by fanboys to try and look like theres things to do.

“Immerse Yourself In The World, Talk To NPCs” ONLY roleplayers would do that.
They all pretty much say the same thing.

“Find/Buy All Your Favorite Looking Gear With Gold And Karma” Most already have. Grinding for more gold/karma/tokens to get a set with worse stats and worse looks..doubt to many are a fan of that.

Many of them are the same thing, just using different words. And many of us dislike playing alts, we want to progress with out mains.

I didnt expect there to be raids at the end, but many of uxpected something ele to be there instead. BUt its just like any other mmo without the raiding and only keeping the tedious “pre gearing” boring grind dungeons from those games.
Its like it has 50% less things to do at endgame then any other mmo, and most of it are meaningless to do becouse other then looks, you cant use it for anything.

Selo.1250:

Many of them are the same thing, just using different words. And many of us dislike playing alts, we want to progress with out mains.

Don’t use the “many of us” argument. It’s appeal to popularity, and you cannot even establish what “many” means in order to demonstrate the popularity part of that equation. If your argument is sound, it doesn’t matter if you’re the only one making it, or if two million people are making it. You will find that “many” people can be found that believe almost anything.

Selo.1250:

Its like it has 50% less things to do at endgame then any other mmo, and most of it are meaningless to do becouse other then looks, you cant use it for anything.

50% less things to do, eh? Can you make a list of things to do that do not involve perpetual incremental progression that ALL other MMOs have, and GW2 does not?

I am kind of curious as to how much more PvP “content” there is? You have your battlegrounds( spvp), and world pvp(wvwvw) as well as arenas (tourny pvp in a sense). What doesnt this game has that … WoW… has in terms of pvp, and what could it do differently?

Isn’t the content of player vs player driven by simply that, the players? The content is within the people you are facing.

Instead of strolling onto the forums demanding that there be more content for PvP players, which I find hilarious, tell us what you would like to see.

Selo.1250:

Reply to that has already been made kasama

Most of them are massive repetative grinds. Not grinds that takes 2 hours to complete 5 times , but grinds that takes 5 mins to complete, then you have to do it over and over and over 200 times.

The others are just “forced” out by fanboys to try and look like theres things to do.

“Immerse Yourself In The World, Talk To NPCs” ONLY roleplayers would do that.
They all pretty much say the same thing.

“Find/Buy All Your Favorite Looking Gear With Gold And Karma” Most already have. Grinding for more gold/karma/tokens to get a set with worse stats and worse looks..doubt to many are a fan of that.

Many of them are the same thing, just using different words. And many of us dislike playing alts, we want to progress with out mains.

I didnt expect there to be raids at the end, but many of uxpected something ele to be there instead. BUt its just like any other mmo without the raiding and only keeping the tedious “pre gearing” boring grind dungeons from those games.
Its like it has 50% less things to do at endgame then any other mmo, and most of it are meaningless to do becouse other then looks, you cant use it for anything.

I would say to you, and anyone who agrees with your post, that you did not read up on GW2 prior to purchasing and that you expected one thing and received another. Guild wars 2, as you know, was meant to not have raids, or a carrot on a stick as most of the people in this thread want. Arenanet couldn’t have been clearer on this point. So I do not see a reason to whine about it on the forums. Once you get your max stat gear set, you grind for looks or not at all. Thats it. You aren’t getting another tier of gear. Not to mention, arenanet said they would have no problem with you breaking from the game to play other games for a while as it is not a sub game, and not meant to capture your attention 24×7 all year round. Nor are they required to do so with no subscription fee.

I see a lot of il informed WoW converts flocking to the forums to whine about lack of endgame.

Selo.1250:

Reply to that has already been made kasama

Most of them are massive repetative grinds. Not grinds that takes 2 hours to complete 5 times , but grinds that takes 5 mins to complete, then you have to do it over and over and over 200 times.

The others are just “forced” out by fanboys to try and look like theres things to do.

You are not forced to do anything that you don’t want to. If you feel like something is a grind, then you have the power to change batman! Just don’t do it! Join a Worlds PvP fight, or do anything ells in between farming for gear.

There is nothing forced, this is just our experience with the game. I could also turn that argument around and say “other negative points are just forced out by haters who try to turn the game into another WoW clone”. The point of a forum is to share experiences, and give advice.

“Immerse Yourself In The World, Talk To NPCs” ONLY roleplayers would do that.

Roleplayers are people who create their own stories within a game. The story and the world itself, is meant to be enjoyed by everyone who plays. Immersion is a huge part of any game, whether it’s a FPS or an RPG. The world around you is what makes the game experience, so therefor you should get involved in it. If not, then what do you have left? Clicking buttons and doing chores?

They all pretty much say the same thing.

“Find/Buy All Your Favorite Looking Gear With Gold And Karma” Most already have. Grinding for more gold/karma/tokens to get a set with worse stats and worse looks..doubt to many are a fan of that.

Many of them are the same thing, just using different words. And many of us dislike playing alts, we want to progress with out mains.

I didnt expect there to be raids at the end, but many of uxpected something ele to be there instead. BUt its just like any other mmo without the raiding and only keeping the tedious “pre gearing” boring grind dungeons from those games.
Its like it has 50% less things to do at endgame then any other mmo, and most of it are meaningless to do becouse other then looks, you cant use it for anything.

I can’t tell you want you should, or shouldn’t, like. I can only tell you wants possible to do within the game. If you don’t like what you are offered, then maybe the game just isn’t for you? If that’s the case, then just treat it as a single player game. You got an experience out of it that was pretty fun, and now you are free to move on to the next game.

I think spvp progression exists. its just really really really slow. Now if our wanting progression through “i played more than this guy so i deserve a handi-cap allowing me to take less damage from him and do more damage to him” well thats just not gonna happen.

That would be like me inviting my friend over to play chess than going “actually i played this game for YEARS more than you, so….i need you to remove both your rooks because its only fair that since i played more i should have an advantage going into a match outside the skill i earned from playing more often”

Sounds silly doesnt it? What COULD work is what games like League of Legends did which is a ranked system. This creates a feeling of progression each time you play because your constantly trying to raise your rank. Sometimes it goes down sometimes it goes up depending on several variables but you always feel like your getting somewhere “even when your not” which is very satisfying.

@DevilLordLazer " ..It’d be much more preferable (to me, at least), for ArenaNet to work on expanding Orr, perhaps fill it out into something of an endless WvW competition against the undead. Fight to hold ground, perhaps even to earn and retain WvW-like bonuses that apply only to players in the Orrian areas, thus giving them an incentive to hang around and contribute. Something active, with tangible and immediate benefits which are nonetheless not critical to one’s enjoyment of the game…"

You, sir, deserve all of the win. This would be a perfect step towards bolstering end-game content in GW2. Absolutely the right direction in my opinion. Add in some Orr-siege-only crafting mats for very cool Orr related gear (of similiar stats to already existing gear, it can just be aesthetically / ego pleasing) or Orr-siege-DE bosses that are summoned / released due to players pushing to certain strongholds, killing undead lietenants or sub-bosses, holding key areas for an hour or more (difficulty of undead waves would have to increase over that time in order to make failure possible), etc… These bosses could drop legendary fluff items (mini-pets, deployable fog for minor visual obstruction in PvP and atmosphere in RP, Risen form potions, that kind of thing) / aesthetically pleasing armour and weapons, etc…

I’d like to see non-fortress oriented objectives as well. Adding in ruins from some magically or spiritually impressive (evil or good, both have merit for an impressive sub-plot) marine civilization that had begun to colonize Orr when it was beneath the waves could be a great setting for a DE. While the undead have been trying to breach the ruins perimeter, darn those pesky wards, the players may also have to breach it themselves or defend it from the zombie horde. Alternatively, it could just be a necropolis of Orr which housed some honourable Paladin king/s or a magical, Sylvari grove they surreptitiously attempted to grow for the purpose of cleansing Orr (maybe just part of it in order to utilize the area as a place for the defenders of Tyria to use as a camp / fortress / magical experiment) . At the heart of this DE would be some terrible cursed object or a weapon enchanted with powerful arcane runes or the long suffering ghost of an enormously powerful god-king, valiant or otherwise, who can summon part of his ancient army (this last one would make for a really fun twist in a DE as it would add a transient third faction to help tip the scales or to add to the chaos). Maybe some risen or acolytes of Zhaitan could just be in some out-of-the-way corrupt ritual grounds. Generally raising hell, so to speak.

DEs which utilize multiple key locations at one time and multiple hostile attacks would force the players to strategize, to split up and to prioritize the map as well as their own forces. Having a giant roving horde, from which the hostile forces come from, existing and open to attack from players gives us options, such as defending or attempting to harry the horde or strike it head on in the hopes that we don’t get slaughtered. Maybe that horde is actually stationed behind an imposing, spiked wall with manned towers.

The element of choice is what makes an event really dynamic, not just the resulting consequences. So far I haven’t run into any DE that really takes advantage of this. There are far too many phases of DEs that just send the player zerg rush to another location with one objective. As much fun as it is to spill into a centaur village and instinctively break off into smaller groups to chase down enemies, slaughter their creatures (kitten you little chicken!) and race through their encampment in some blood lust twisted desire to explore, it isn’t challenging or at all tactical. Choice and challenging encounters are a must for these. If communication isn’t necessary than it’s too simple.

Cont…

Greed is a powerful driving force and previous MMOs have used their player’s greed shamelessly to cover up their lack of innovative, imaginative, quality content. It’s the same for our vanity. While I’ll be the first to admit that I adore seeing amazing armour and weapon designs, working for it and, ultimately, getting those pieces, it shouldn’t be the reason most of the group is even bothering with the content. Unfortunately, it often becomes the main reason players even log on to those MMOs. It becomes the game for them.

Raids are just large dance routines that everybody learns and repeats ad nauseum, while the person yelling commands over vent or mumbles gives you your cues. Learning those encounters is usually fun, but they get old really fast which forces developers to constantly push out more and more content. This trivializes what you’ve done (and to a degree the rest of the game) while making future content less and less original. The bosses you kill, the gear you get, it’s all dropped in a heart beat for something with more stats. The Elder God C’thun in AQ (WoW for the few that don’t know it) becomes Patchwerks kitten due to gear progression. Such a concept would be depressing and utterly ridiculous if the gear you were trying to get wasn’t so alluring.

End game content should be iconic, it should be inspiring, it should stir up some emotions and leave players with some epic memories. Without the ungodly trinity we are no longer so kitten focused on step, step, spin, step, step, stay out of fire, dip. Nailing those rotations, taunts, 30% CD blowing, dance routines is no longer the source of so much of our attention. This means we need alternative goals in end game content. Our memories of epic moments will have to be due to far more organic actions, encounters and group cooperation. Creating organic content to match these new aspects of end-game is the direction Anet will have to explore.

I don’t envy them this extremely difficult undertaking. They have so few sources to rip off, which is a perfectly valid and time honoured tradition in humanity’s creative pursuits. However, I am thoroughly looking forward to seeing what the future has in store for GW2. The possibilities are absolutely phenomenal!

TL:DR You just missed out, lazy bugger.

Here is what i posted on another thread.

This is why, the whole notion of “the whole game is end game” is nothing but a marketing term and does NOT translate to what is really happening in the game. The notion itself is flawed. Because the moment you put “levels” in the game, the whole notion of “the whole game is end game” flies out the window. Why? Mainly because it creates a rift between low and high level players. The higher level player can drag himself to a lowbie area, be bored, and help his comrade. But the low level player cannot go to a high level area and play with his high level comrade. So how can you fix such a problem? The solution has already been created! Its called “end game content”. Why is that important? Because it creates a meeting point for players. Your high level friend cannot go any further. He can help you level in the hopes that you, the lowbie, can reach level cap to go tackle what is beyond…together…with your comrades. Creating a sense of camaraderie, then maybe joining a community, playing with them, tackling more content, having more experiences…..for years to come.

After reading these forums for the last couple of days I really feel a bit disgusted with some of the topics that have been introduced here. I know that everybody is entitled to his or her own opinion but is it really necessary to have that many recurring topics? I think its really sad that people feel the need to constantly repeating themselves in different topics and frankly I’m kinda fed up with it.

Even worse, it seems that most of these topics are no more then a way for people to bash the game because none of them can possibly be considered constructive feedback. It’s oke to not like Guild Wars 2, but seriously, remaining in discussion just for the sake of trolling or trying to force opinions is not a way to do it. Some players even state they haven’t played anymore in weeks and still continue to spam the forum with nothing but negative contempt.

On the topic of endgame content, I am shocked that it is possible that people still assume that endgame in GW2 is the same compared to other MMO’s. If you just google GW2 you get all the information you need and you will know that it is not the typical endgame gear treadmill and endless raiding to improve stats. How can anyone have missed that?? I want to point out that I am not saying that these people are wrong in their opinion. Of course, if you prefer this type of endgame then you will be dissappointed in GW2 endgame. I would feel the same way if that would be the case for me. What I’m trying to get at is that people themselves are to blaim for feeling dissappointed and bored. I think these people are wrong in stating that GW2 needs different endgame to suit their ideal to be a good game. Coming into the game with the wrong ideas about what to do after lvl 80 is their mistake and not the game’s and therefore the devs should not have to change their way of doing things just to cater to this specific group of people.

I myself am almost at lvl 80 and still have 50% of the map to explore. I have 2 other lvl 20 characters and I like to switch between them because unlike others I do feel like there is quite some difference in playing style. I don’t mind doing maps again with alts and although this is not considered endgame content, it is something you can easily do if you feel you are done with one alt. I think a big part of the fun in an MMO is to have different characters that you can switch to depending on the need of a party or the type of play style that is needed. People consider farming DE and dungenons for tokens as endgame content but for me they dont even come close to that. I love doing dynamic events and yes DE might just be a fancy name for quests, I still feel excited when a chain event is popping up so they do work for me. I really don’t care if this is in Queensdale or Cursed Shore. Neither do I really care for the rewards. I have enough gold to sustain myself (repairs and waypoints) and by myself a nice looking armor and blade. I don’t go for legendary at the moment because I don’t want to be busy all day farming karma or whatever just for the sake of farming. I’m in an amazing guild and I like to run dungeons not because they give me a reward but just because I like to play the game togehter with a group of friends and have a laugh if we get stomped because we took the most difficult path in AC. For the same reason I like just exploring with a group and doing chain events. I love helping other people with their stories and help them getting that vista of skill point in low lvl maps. The game is still called Guild Wars so one might expect that being in a guild and doing stuff with a guild is an important factor.

So for me (and a whole lof of people with me) there is plenty to do once after lvl 80. But again, this is just my opinion and I can understand how other people can come to different conclusions. It would just be a lot better if they would stop making the same thread over and over again which is nothing but a breeding ground for trolls.

There’s a number of reasons that Guild Wars 2 seems lacking in the end game.

1: Gear is meaningless as it is easy to come by and that there isn’t enough stat variance. I mean I crafted all my exotics within a few days of hitting cap.

2: Customization is a stupid motivator, regardless of the fact that some people don’t care what their character looks like. You snipe that one set and you’re done, I don’t think most people want to play dress up and change their skin every week. You look like a BAMF, and you’re done.

3: Dungeons are either too easy, too gimmicky or too pointless. Take your pick.

4 Replaying content is fairly dry, it’s another 300 hearts. YAY! Because I just need to kill more centaurs, dredge, and risen. Story quests are largely poorly written, and have terrible voice acting. Every single character is ultimately a Mary Sue. Oh and spoiler, Zhaitan was a kitteny villain.

5 Events have good and bad aspects. Bosses like claw of jormag are fun, I mean he’s really fun. But it stings to open a chest and get three blues 90% of the time. I mean honestly, that’s not even chump change. But then you look at Orr, who the kitten was in charge of that nightmare. Disregarding the numerous bugs, the bosses are all kitteny and uninteresting. Hell, Grenth was only fun because how imcompetent players can be at killing shades. The events need to be scaled up, they need to HARD, with much much higher chances of failure. But at the same time the rewards need to be not quite as kitteny.

6 Arenanet doesn’t like gold farmers I get it. But I’m not allowed to stand on a beach and farm mob for more than 30 minutes? That’s just kittening stupid. Stopping gold farmers is an excuse for bad diagnostic tools. Mystic Forge gambling is awesome, why? Because you are likely to get boned.

7 WvW is entirely dependant on what sever you are on and playing against, so some weeks can be fun and others can just be pointless. Not really anything they can do about it, it’s just a fact.
Sidenote: Too many lowbies, I run around with my buddy (who’s also in exotics), we will usually run into a group of five or so heading towards our dolyaks and we just murder them.

8 Structured PvP is fun, but not fun enough for me to keep doing it. 95% of the people in are bad, I mean have you all noticed how easy it is to kill these people? Regardless of what class I play, I cannot help but be bored. On occasion, I am pleasantly surprised by players who just abuse me. But that’s not most games. Also need more map variety, four maps all the same game type with a gimmick. Not interesting, just another grind.

Ultimately, I am bored. I could just go down the achievements like a check list, but that’s seems lame, really really lame. Arenanet acts like they dislike grinding, but guess what? Every single thing in this game is a grind. Whether it’s Spvp, gold, karma, or plain old leveling, it’s always a grind. The only reason I would play at all now is because of my guildies, and I know most of them are only playing because of their guildies. But we’d ultimately be better off playing a game, which was both fun and we could play together.

TL;DR: I got a couple hundred hours of the game, but it’s too easy and pointless to keep playing.

I have to agree with the OP and wonder why anyone has a problem with his suggestion. He’s a customer just like everyone else and has certain things he would like to do at endgame. Shunning that because you don’t like that gameplay type is rude and non MMO friendly. MMOs are all about giving multiple types of players multiple things to choose from at all points in it’s lifespan, especially at endgame.

He like me is waiting for the problem of “longevity” to be fixed. This game is fantastic, until you are basically “done” playing which happens very fast on a fully geared 80 that has finished the personal story and world map completion. It leaves one wondering “what do I do now?” and we(I) end up logging in for about half an hour, dilly dallying around with pvp or maybe helping guildies or friends with lower level content, but it’s not satisfying or as engrossing as it was getting that 80 finished.

This is a legitimate gripe and shouldn’t be overlooked just because Anet does things “differently”. Which is fine, but lets do the endgame longevity differently too and not just completely forget it, which is currently the case.

I can’t quote the whole post since I surpass the length but I will cover all the points in your post :-)

Meeks.3694:

1: Gear is meaningless as it is easy to come by and that there isn’t enough stat variance. I mean I crafted all my exotics within a few days of hitting cap.
…..

1: You say that gear is irrelevant and you know what… that is exactly the point. So again, this is just you having a different idea of what endgame should be, not Anet making mistakes.

2: True, but unlike you some people will take a lot longer to get their exotics. SInce I don’t feel the need to have exotic gear within the first 2 weeks, me reaching that goal will take a lot longer (especially now with DR) and that’s absolutely fine for me.

3: Might be, but again, you treat them as a way to improve your character by getting a certain armor or weapon. This requires you to do them so many times in a row that every little mistake becomes a huge issue for you. I have done a couple of dungeons just for the fun of doing them and i actually liked them. I don’t even care for the tokens.

4: How is this different from every other MMO out there that has multiple character slots? So basically, you would be ok with having one slot? If so, of course you are going to be dissappointed if there is not a million hours of content. Besides, it is perfectly possible to lvl only in WvW.

5: I agree with you that the drops are a little bit to low but to me its not that much of a problem. It might be my playing style but I don’t do it for the drops or chests. So this is just a matter of why you do the events. If you do them for drops then you are absolutely right. Besides, these are things im sure Anet will fix in the future

6: Same as previous, they are trying out stuff and at the moment it affects people like you but not people like me. Ok i give that you but again this might change very soon again so for the moment you will have to live with it. I hope they do fix the botting/DR for you sake because it would be a silly reason in all to leave the game.

7: Different servers have different players. The ranking systsem will eventually be leveled out and you will have intense matches between servers. Im at SoR and it pretty nice (not talking about the whole orb hacking) and epic between the 3 servers. As for most players being " lowbie". Give it some time, not everyone has the time and skill to learn the game in such a faste rate as you do. Eventually enough players will catch on.

8: Same as 7, give it some time. Allready there are players that stomp you. They might feel the same way about you. The game has only been released little over a month and people are still leveling up in PVE. They will learn the ropes of PvP and hey maybe 30% of those 95% that you own today will abuse you one day. Again be prepared. More maps will come, don’t worry.

But if you still feel bored, i guess the game itself just is not for you and you know what, that’s ok! There will be other games better suited to your needs and we can all play the game that we love.

- This game does not need gear progression ever.
- You don’t need gear progression either. Gear progression is just another MMO’s ploy to get you to pay more monthly fees.
- I doubt you have done all or the content of the game.(link me a 100% map explorer screen shot to prove me wrong)
- see above recommendation of things to do at level 80.

DirtyDeeds.6075:

- You don’t need gear progression either. Gear progression is just another MMO’s ploy to get you to pay more monthly fees.

I quite enjoyed gear progression on WoW private servers, and I didn’t pay a dime. They sure got me with that ploy, oh boy!

DirtyDeeds.6075:

- see above recommendation of things to do at level 80.

That fluffed-up copy-paste list that’s full of stuff like “Hang out with Quaggans” and “Give Logan a Wedgie” again? No thanks.

elocke.7132:

I have to agree with the OP and wonder why anyone has a problem with his suggestion. He’s a customer just like everyone else and has certain things he would like to do at endgame. Shunning that because you don’t like that gameplay type is rude and non MMO friendly. MMOs are all about giving multiple types of players multiple things to choose from at all points in it’s lifespan, especially at endgame.

He like me is waiting for the problem of “longevity” to be fixed. This game is fantastic, until you are basically “done” playing which happens very fast on a fully geared 80 that has finished the personal story and world map completion. It leaves one wondering “what do I do now?” and we(I) end up logging in for about half an hour, dilly dallying around with pvp or maybe helping guildies or friends with lower level content, but it’s not satisfying or as engrossing as it was getting that 80 finished.

This is a legitimate gripe and shouldn’t be overlooked just because Anet does things “differently”. Which is fine, but lets do the endgame longevity differently too and not just completely forget it, which is currently the case.

I’m sorry if it seemed I was shunning the OP. That was not my intention. But you have to agree that there are simply to many post about endgame content. And in all of those the same idea is presented. Introduce a gear treadmill to even progress as a lvl 80. And if you like that, im happy for you but Anet has stated 5 year ago that GW2 would definitely not have this. So people that still come in the game expecting to do this at lvl 80 are going to be dissappointed. But Anet should not change its way of thinking because these gamers picked the wrong game to play.

Now if we are talking about more endgame content in the form of a couple more lvl 80 maps to explore that is a different thing. There can never be to much explorable maps if they are designed the same way as the existing ones. But in the end, this would not solve the problem for those wanting a further character development in the form of gears.

Need to find a goal to set, whether it’s karma gear, cultural armor, a legendary, or something, and slowly work toward it. Play a bit every day to reach that goal. Not like you have a set amount of time to play due to a subscription, so just play when you want to have fun or whatever.

If you aren’t enjoying it, wager whether the $60 was well-spent, and if it isn’t do more research before buying games or something. A.net went into detail on blog posts about how there wasn’t really much progression in the game months before release.

The game has been out for one month… If you are already board, you have indeed played too much, or have focused too much on a particular aspect of the game. Item power progression is not going to happen in this game. It doesn’t have to. More content will come. In the mean time you can do some WvW, or SPvP, or play alts. Or just hang it up for a while. It’s fine. You’re not paying a monthly fee. If you played more than 10 hours, you got your money’s worth, and Anet got your money, so it’s a perfect relationship at this point. Those of us who continue to enjoy the game for it’s design choices will continue to to so regardless of how many gear grinders whine and complain about it. No offense, but you might as well go play that other game that will give you the kind of “endgame content” that you have been hardwired to lust for. That is all.

Balkito.8160:

Need to find a goal to set, whether it’s karma gear, cultural armor, a legendary, or something, and slowly work toward it. Play a bit every day to reach that goal. Not like you have a set amount of time to play due to a subscription, so just play when you want to have fun or whatever.

If you aren’t enjoying it, wager whether the $60 was well-spent, and if it isn’t do more research before buying games or something. A.net went into detail on blog posts about how there wasn’t really much progression in the game months before release.

Yes, this game was aimed at people who wanted an mmo, without the gear > skill model. It’s a cold reality that many players will not be able to adapt to this strange new world that doesn’t try to dangle “Fun” in the form of a carrot on a stick in front of players to keep them playing.

elocke.7132:

I have to agree with the OP and wonder why anyone has a problem with his suggestion. He’s a customer just like everyone else and has certain things he would like to do at endgame. Shunning that because you don’t like that gameplay type is rude and non MMO friendly. MMOs are all about giving multiple types of players multiple things to choose from at all points in it’s lifespan, especially at endgame.

He like me is waiting for the problem of “longevity” to be fixed. This game is fantastic, until you are basically “done” playing which happens very fast on a fully geared 80 that has finished the personal story and world map completion. It leaves one wondering “what do I do now?” and we(I) end up logging in for about half an hour, dilly dallying around with pvp or maybe helping guildies or friends with lower level content, but it’s not satisfying or as engrossing as it was getting that 80 finished.

This is a legitimate gripe and shouldn’t be overlooked just because Anet does things “differently”. Which is fine, but lets do the endgame longevity differently too and not just completely forget it, which is currently the case.

Hey, how about, no.

Gear treadmill destroys the type of game I want to play. It is the antithesis of the game I want to play. It is the reason I won’t play an MMO — but I’m playing GW2 and loving it. I’m free to do what I want in game, and what I want is to not feel obligated to log in to jump back and forth avoiding fire to kill some stupid PvE content and get a cookie that lets me do the same old puppy to the next stupid PvE content which gives me a cookie that lets me do.. and so on and so on.

You want pointless and meaningless? THAT garbage is pointless and meaningless. Go play Farmville. Have you ever made fun of Farmville? That’s all your worthless PvE progression is in the end, you know. WoW is no better than Farmville when you look at the gameplay. Click this thing to get that thing so you can click this thing.

That’s dumb, I don’t like it, and I don’t want it.

Once you introduce a gear treadmill with ever-increasing stats, you introduce mudflation. You force all players to jump on that treadmill. ALL THE PLAYERS. MUST. BE ON THE TREADMILL. Else they will be left behind and suddenly they’re not at endgame anymore, they can’t do what they enjoy. I want to PvP, and pretty much nothing else. I go out to WvW, knowing that I’m on equal ground with everyone else. Throw a gear treadmill in there, and that’s not the case. Now I have to farm stupid PvE content just to be on equal footing with other chumps who love that uninteresting insipid content. I don’t want to do that. It makes me hate the game. I don’t care about the new pretty shiny I might get — I’d rather not need it to compete, and I’m not going to subject myself to crawling through a sewer pipe just because it’s sunny on the other side. Nah. I can just walk away from the game, if it’s going down that route.

Go WvW. Go PvP. Go pretend you’re in an epic PvE encounter. Who cares! I don’t, because you clearly want to change the game into something you prefer, something which would cause me to quit the game. Immediately.

There’s enough PvE gear treadmill MMOs in the world that it does not need one more. This is the only MMO that has 3-sided PvP that I don’t have to grind and grind and farm and farm for hours, days, weeks, months, until I would get to a competitive level. I’m already there. All that I need is to get better at playing my character. I don’t need some leet purps to make me good — either I’m good, or I’m not. It’s all on me.

I like that.

You don’t? Go play Progress Quest. No, it really is a real game. It’s exactly the sort of thing you’d like. Endless progression! Always something bigger and badder — ALWAYS! You have fun with that.

I’m getting rather tired of you and your ilk always shouting and screaming and desiring the one thing I will not tolerate in an MMO. Really, eventually, some day, you’ll realize all that progression and “work” is as meaningless as running in circles on the roof of the Orgrimmar bank. It got you every bit as far, that’s for sure.

PvP? WvWvW? There, THERE is fun. You’ll never fall behind. You’ll never be ahead. If your only enjoyment is getting that loot cookie that’s new and shiny… you don’t actually enjoy playing the game, just getting the reward.

Learn to enjoy the playing, not the reward. If the doing is not fun, neither is the reward. Enjoy what you do, not what it will do for you.

This game was made for people like Warmonkey and I. Deal with it.

Strange MMO’s are like life, at the begining you can do every thing but dont know how at 80 you know how but cant do it

Again, stop assuming that we mean “gear treadmill” when we say we want more to the current endgame. MMOs are all about progression systems. Most of them do the gear treadmill, yes. I realize GW2 is not that type of game. Great! Stay that way! But saying the current “endgame” here in GW2 is the end all and be all of endgaming is a joke. I don’t feel any reason to log in once I’ve completed the things I found fun in the game which was leveling and exploration. Sadly those have finite endings and there is no more progression for me to look forward to, right now.

I want more progression, but done Anet’s way. What that way is, I don’t know, who does but Anet? They have to realize this game feels like an sRPG with online friends more than a true and tried MMORPG. It’s going to hurt it in the long run if it just stays this way without adding some innovative and Anet style different endgame mechanics. I just hope most of you realize that and would stop with the “you bought the wrong game” attitude you all seem to throw at anyone who mentions not enjoying post 80 gameplay. Gear treadmill isn’t the answer to that anyway, as there already is a gear treadmill. Isn’t that what you get for running dungeons over and over for? Or earning a heap ton of Karma and gold? Yeah, still looks like a gear treadmill to me. That doesnt’ interest me, never has. Other systems to however, in other games in the form of mini games, housing, trophies, alternate advancement systems, or the non level based games, skills you level up over time through usage. Collectables and collectable card games, mini pets, mounts, you name it. These are all different endgame options that aren’t in GW2 at all that I have to come to expect in an MMO. ANYTHING but, just keep doing what you were doing(again, I can’t because leveling and exploration are finite! lol).

elocke.7132:

Again, stop assuming that we mean “gear treadmill” when we say we want more to the current endgame. MMOs are all about progression systems. Most of them do the gear treadmill, yes. I realize GW2 is not that type of game. Great! Stay that way! But saying the current “endgame” here in GW2 is the end all and be all of endgaming is a joke. I don’t feel any reason to log in once I’ve completed the things I found fun in the game which was leveling and exploration. Sadly those have finite endings and there is no more progression for me to look forward to, right now.

I want more progression, but done Anet’s way. What that way is, I don’t know, who does but Anet? They have to realize this game feels like an sRPG with online friends more than a true and tried MMORPG. It’s going to hurt it in the long run if it just stays this way without adding some innovative and Anet style different endgame mechanics. I just hope most of you realize that and would stop with the “you bought the wrong game” attitude you all seem to throw at anyone who mentions not enjoying post 80 gameplay. Gear treadmill isn’t the answer to that anyway, as there already is a gear treadmill. Isn’t that what you get for running dungeons over and over for? Or earning a heap ton of Karma and gold? Yeah, still looks like a gear treadmill to me. That doesnt’ interest me, never has. Other systems to however, in other games in the form of mini games, housing, trophies, alternate advancement systems, or the non level based games, skills you level up over time through usage. Collectables and collectable card games, mini pets, mounts, you name it. These are all different endgame options that aren’t in GW2 at all that I have to come to expect in an MMO. ANYTHING but, just keep doing what you were doing(again, I can’t because leveling and exploration are finite! lol).

This. Great post, elocke. I’ve already made a couple of posts on this topic, but once again: GW2 took out the gear treadmill for one reason or another. Great. What’s going to replace it? Ultima Online (not focused on gear btw!) had player housing as part of the persistent(!) game world, player killing and looting; SWG had both housing and vehicles capable of carrying multiple players. GW2 doesn’t offer any gameplay quirks like that. It feels like an MMO-lite as a result. Something needs to be done.

Abbehemoth.2471:

I guess most people believe that just because the game is classified as an MMO they are entiteled to 900 million hours of gameplay while if they buy a singleplayer game and get 7-9 hours out of it while probably paying more it’s enough.

Alright, since you insist on treating GW2 on single-player terms:

It’s world is not nearly as immersive as Skyrim’s.
It’s action-oriented combat system is not nearly as thrilling as God of War.
It’s story is pathetic at best, and can’t be compared to, say, Mass Effect.

The trump card of MMO’s is that they are the only genre that provide a huge, persistent world where thousands of players can interact. Because of that, supporting server population is crucial. MMO’s need to offer content that keeps people playing for months. If it doesn’t, the world becomes a ghost town, and the game loses appeal. It becomes a shallow likeness of a single-player RPG. At that point, why not go play a REAL single-player RPG?

Players of different genres of games have different expectations. Comparing an MMO to single-player games is misleading.

lacrimstein.5603:

Alright, since you insist on treating GW2 on single-player terms:

It’s world is not nearly as immersive as Skyrim’s.
It’s action-oriented combat system is not nearly as thrilling as God of War or Battlefield 3.
It’s story is pathetic at best, and can’t be compared to, say, Mass Effect.

The trump card of MMO’s is that they are the only genre that provide a huge, persistent world where thousands of players can interact. Because of that, supporting server population is crucial. MMO’s need to offer content that keeps people playing for months. If it doesn’t, the world becomes a ghost town, and the game loses appeal.

Skyrim’s combat and crafting are vastly inferior.
God of War and Battlefield 3 don’t have nearly the feature depth.
Mass Effect’s world is microscopically tiny by way of comparison, and the game is completely linear, and oh GOD that ending.
This apple is disgusting, it’s not nearly as citrusy as this orange!

I’m actually of the mind that there is a long discussion to be had about ways to improve on GW2’s current state, most particularly for players who have capped their level, plateaued their gear, or finished their explorations. Because I think there ARE things you can do to improve things for those players, without necessarily vomiting up endless content, or shackling the game to an archaic and punitive infinite progression treadmill.

However, these broken comparisons (not to mention this chicken little routine you’re affecting) doesn’t fill me with confidence that you’re actually willing to have that conversation. I’ve had too many years of listening to too many talking heads on too many forums insisting that GAME X is totally DOOMED if it doesn’t implement FEATURE Y. Over a decade of near ceaseless jeremiads and bloviating from self-proclaimed experts on the genre, because they’re in this guild, or they raided that boss, or they played for so many hours consecutively they stuck to the chair in a puddle of their own filth.

Just be constructive, man. If you can think of a way to improve things that doesn’t involve gear that lets you hunt for more gear that lets you hunt for more gear that lets you hunt for more gear that lets you hunt for more gear, let’s hear it. We’re all ears. This “booga booga, the game is dying” routine is old. So…old. There are a lot of reasons that no game ever has managed to capture even a notable fragment of WoW’s player base, but none of those reasons are “the developers did not give into Chad’s demands on the forums that one time”.

Velvet.4678:

I have leveled a Thief to 80 and find that there is nothing to attract me to the game anymore. I mostly play PvP in MMOs but since there is no real gear progression like in WoW I am not drawn to it. I am unable to play PvP simply for “fun” because the fun for me is in the progression. PvE does not offer anything that interests me either.

That said, I do love the combat, graphics style and surprisingly, leveling. Leveling in this game is the funnest thing for me so far, but with nothing to look forward to at the top of the ladder, that too loses purpose.

I would suggest Arenanet to add more endgame material.

I agree 100%. Any other forum goer that says “Well, there’s a TON to do at level 80, you’re doing it wrong” is a blind fanboy.

There’s something to be had when a casual player can pick this game up, play steadily without grinding for 3 weeks or so, and literally have everything explored, and full exotic gear/weapons.

I then came to the realization that this game is a hold-me-over game. I would bet that the majority of the population is similar to me; play the game casually to have fun, with the realization that I won’t be grinding this game day-to-day or yearly like someone would with a standard MMO, like WoW. In WoW, players have been playing for years on end, because that game has a ton of stuff, albeit they’ve added a bunch, and this game is still new. But, there isn’t anything keeping players with this game post 80 as of this point. That’s when it hit me. I’ll continue to play this game until something else peaks my interests, and then i’ll move on, and forget this game until I’m bored with said new game. The only players sticking with this game “long-term” are the Guild Wars players.

Another issue I ran into was the personal story it was great until that one guy comes along and steals your mojo. From what I’ve read no matter what your choices are and what you chose at the start of your toon will always lead you to that guy. I thought I was a hero and felt important in my story until then. The game becomes about him and his story with you tacked on the side.

@OP, if you’ve finished all this

Complete your personal story
Unlock all available skills for your profession / race
Raise your crafting disciplines to skill level 400
Explore all areas in the game (100% World Completion)

And have no interest in clearing all the dungeons (at least for the story and graphics), then I’d basically say you are done. You likely spent at least 200 hours doing this. 200 hours of entertainment for $60 is a bargain if you ask me.

I mean, that’s literally 3 hours 20 minutes of entertainment for a $1. This really isn’t an MMO in the traditional sense. Arenet isn’t subscription based so it doesn’t block you from completing content. It doesn’t limit you with artificial caps or only letting you do the dungeon once a day.

I hate to say it, but it sounds like you beat the game. I know when I get 100% map completion and all the dungeons cleared, as well as my personal story done, I’ll consider the game done with outside of pvp. Not a bad thing really. I’m sure you payed $60 for far less entertainment before.

Stark.1350:

Someone name an MMO that, upon release, had wayyyy more content than GW2 does now.

Oh right, you can’t. Moving along.

Don’t think you have enough time to listen to that long list.

sairen.5492: What you say is entirely true. The $60 price tag is certainly worth the entertainment that this game provides. I don’t think that too many people are arguing that point.

However, GW2 is disappointing for a different reason. It’s a game that does so many things right, but then fails to live up to expectations at the same time. It added story, but they were poorly written. It added dynamic events, but they became zergfests and bot parties. (The ones that even work at all, anyway.) GW2 has numerous dungeons, but they’re bugged and lacking in proper rewards. The skill system is clever and fun, but the skills themselves are dull and lacking flavor.

Worst of all, the game is pretty kitten good for the first X hours, but then becomes a boring, mindless grind for a legendary weapon once you’ve seen every dungeon and completed the map. GW2 is a game with so much potential that it’s frustrating as a player to know that if ArenaNet had another year, GW2 would probably have debuted as the best MMO ever. Instead, what we got was an unfinished product with a number of bugs that’s above my tolerance level, an obscene number of bots and exploits, bosses that don’t feel epic, and and endgame that doesn’t exist.

We want to play more, but there just isn’t enough to do!

Stark.1350:

Kwami.4356:

Stark.1350:

Someone name an MMO that, upon release, had wayyyy more content than GW2 does now.

Oh right, you can’t. Moving along.

World of Warcraft

Wrong. Vanilla WoW had no PvP at launch, two raids, and a bare handful of dungeons at max level. Try again.

Classes: 9 for WoW, 8 for GW2
Races: 8 for WoW, 5 for GW2
Dungeons: 17 (3 at max level, not counting wings separately) for WoW, 8 for GW2 (1 at max level, 3 if you only count explorable mode)
Raids: 2 for WoW, 0 for GW2
Zones: 37 for WoW, 25 for GW2 (not counting cities for either game)
Crafting Professions: 6 for WoW, 8 for GW2

(Bold means that WoW had more content at launch.)

There weren’t any battlegrounds in WoW, but there was world PvP. This included raids on the capital cities of the opposing faction. There were also duels. GW2 lacks both of these things, though it does have four WvW maps (kind of) and a handful of battlegrounds. So, GW2 probably wins on PvP. Though, it’s hard to call zerg vs. zerg "PvP’. :P

DyZ.2854:

Don’t think you have enough time to listen to that long list.

Bull.

Gating content through repetition does not mean you have more content.

WoW and EQ. Those were the only games that had more content than GW2 on release. And it’s debatable in EQ’s case, as the “content” on display was a largely static world with virtually no quests, no events, no PvP, or many (most) of the modern conveniences and features that MMO players have come to anticipate and expect. If EQ was launched in todays market with that feature set, it would be blasted.

Hell, WoW couldn’t really launch today with that feature set. A PvE focused (PvE only, at launch) game with only one raid, a raid with completely bland and static encounter mechanics? I can almost hear the howling from the content locusts now. In fact, I can hear it really clearly, because I heard it then, too. And let’s never mind the loot lag and constant server issues. My god, they’d be pilloried.