Guild Wars 2

Its not like farming nerfing is anything new in this particular genre. The faster you farm, the faster you make it through content. A company would rather you run the same instance 1,000 times than 100 times, so if they find out you have a method to move at a faster pace then they WILL slow you down.

The longer you are in the game farming, the more likely you are to buy gems. Simple as that. Why would they let you complete something in a hundred runs when they can make you take many hundreds of runs and keep you in the game longer?

Jack of Tears.9458:

Im Mudbone.1437:

Why can’t we play the game the way we as individuals feel is fun and not as ANET seems to be preventing us from doing?

Because Anet wants MMOs to grow up and the only way they’ll do that is by taking their medicine; sometimes it’s a bitter pill. They knew when they moved away from the WoW model that there were gonna be people what didn’t like the changes, but you don’t make change by pandering to everyone.

Except this isn’t causing MMO’s to grow up. This is actually causing the exact opposite because by nerfing farming you actually have to farm more. What’s worse is it isn’t even like they have built good game mechanics around the idea of no farming. Nope, instead they just make drops incredibly low and implement diminishing returns. Then just to top off this sad excuse of “progress” they make things require incredibly stupid amounts of hard to farm items. They want MMO’s growing up? Well they sure aren’t doing it in GW2.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Why can’t we play the game the way we as individuals feel is fun and not as ANET seems to be preventing us from doing?

Because there is no one size fits all personal definition of fun, and there has to be allowances for content consumption balance.

I’ll say this: Penitent/Shelter and similar events were more fun after the first set of changes. They’re not fun after this most recent change — kind of anti-fun, in fact.

Fenrir.3609:

Potentially getting a legendary et al after years would be fine IF the path to it was not seemingly utterly grind/farm intensive.

The flaw is not that people want a legendary in weeks or months, it is the whole process is set up in a farm like manner.

but if you just play the game instead of focusing on getting mats, you’ll get those mats eventually. How is it grind intensive if you can get them without grinding? It would be the same as saying that you have to grind to get money, even though you can get money in different ways, however because it’s possible trough grinding this game is pro grinding, even though the developers even told you not to farm.

You make the quest over time with new updates. Something that gives more meaning to the living story stuff. It doesn’t even have to be a quest line, there are plenty of alternatives (one off events, new dungeons, more wvw stuff). Something that get’s people actively looking forward to what’s coming up in the next bit of dynamic content.

1. Questiline with updates would make sure that nobody can get the legendaries for years. Let’s say they changed it now. Do we just take the legendaries off the people that already worked hard to get them? Or do we punish new players only?
2. Getting a precursor of a dungeon would look kind of silly as well. Someone got really lucky before, either that or payed 600 gold and then suddenly “finish a dungeon and you get a precursor! Precursors for everyone! Yaaaay!”. You would be pumping too many precursors out into the game at that point.

You think people are not farming fractals at all?

I’ve seen people do dailies. I have not seen anyone going on a multiple fractal runs in the same day. They’re actually harder that CoF. Especially when you hit level 20 and above. Plus it takes too long for farmers to actually want to farm it.

But for the life of me I cannot understand how anyone could imagine the current set up is a good one, or even one slightly in line whith the whole “farming is bad yo” ethos.

I’m not saying that the current set up is good. I’m saying that a) how to change it and what to change it to would be a complicated matter, therefore just using this one might be better for the game b) you can get the mats without farming, therefore it can go in line with the no farming policy.

yorick.1305:

Bear in mind it’s a F2P game

buy to play, not free to play

morrolan.9608:

Mirta.5029:

This game has stated at the beginning that it is against all means of farming.

So when anet stated that they didn’t mind legitimate farming they were lying? Of course they punish all forms of farming so one does wonder what legitimate farming means to anet.

Oh and yes you do need to farm if you want to craft, build up gold etc. There is a contradiction in the game.

1. Show the statement.
2. I have not needed to farm to get my crafting profession to level 400 even once. You get those mats while leveling no problem. Crafting is not the most profitable thing to do for money, however you don’t need to farm to get money either. I have not needed to farm even once in this game.

Distaste.4801:

Except this isn’t causing MMO’s to grow up. This is actually causing the exact opposite because by nerfing farming you actually have to farm more. What’s worse is it isn’t even like they have built good game mechanics around the idea of no farming. Nope, instead they just make drops incredibly low and implement diminishing returns.

so instead of stopping farming like you should you decided to farm even harder. “You can’t hit enemies trough the walls” “well maybe if I shoot 300 bullets into a wall I will hit someone, why do you make me waste my bullets you bad company?”. You won’t hit DR if you don’t stay in the same place for 30 minutes. I don’t see why it is that bad.

but if you just play the game instead of focusing on getting mats, you’ll get those mats eventually. How is it grind intensive if you can get them without grinding? It would be the same as saying that you have to grind to get money, even though you can get money in different ways, however because it’s possible trough grinding this game is pro grinding, even though the developers even told you not to farm.

I’ve pointed out why the current method is flawed, why it doesn’t fall in line with a “no grind/farm” ethos and why it promotes farming. I would imagine any rational person (and no I am not at all insinuating that you are not rational) should see how the system promotes grinding by the way it is set up.

Again, “you don’t have to worry about it” really doesn’t stand up as a viable, constructive counter argument when debating mechanics. I don’t worry about it, I couldn’t care less in all honesty, but I think it is perfectly clear that the system is flawed and that the whole farm/don’t farm model of the game is all over the place at the moment.

They put out what for many are seen as highly desirable, apex/endgame skins. To get said skins doesn’t involve epic quests et al, it involves getting an inordinate amount of base level crafting materials you can loot off trash mobs, as well as a healthy dose of RNG loot. If you cannot see how that isn’t farm promoting then I am amazed.

1. Questiline with updates would make sure that nobody can get the legendaries for years. Let’s say they changed it now. Do we just take the legendaries off the people that already worked hard to get them? Or do we punish new players only?
2. Getting a precursor of a dungeon would look kind of silly as well. Someone got really lucky before, either that or payed 600 gold and then suddenly “finish a dungeon and you get a precursor! Precursors for everyone! Yaaaay!”. You would be pumping too many precursors out into the game at that point.

1. I thought you said it should take ages? I am merely pointing out that the system is inherently flawed given the whole “don’t farm/grind” point of view and that the CoF/fractal situation is out of whack given said point of view. It could have been, and for future items, should be done (much) better.

Quite where you are getting I suggest take legendaries off people I am not sure.

2. Getting a precursor, from a one off Living Story dungeon, only if you had “been there and done that” at previous, evolving Living Story dungeons would seem somewhat less stupid than the current dump kitten in the mystic toilet gogogo system in all fairness. You also seem to be using “people who spent 600g would be upset if the system changes” as a defence of the mechanics of a system? I do hope you see the flaw in that thinking. It may well be difficult to find a balance when improving the system, that doesn’t mean the system at the moment is not rubbish… which it clearly is. The whole possible scavanger hunt thing also seems to suggest that ANET themselves realise that they have dropped the ball big time (but ofc they wont actually resolve it until people have had plenty of time to flush their kitten down the toilet and hopefully buy more gems for gold to fund said enterprise).

I’ve seen people do dailies. I have not seen anyone going on a multiple fractal runs in the same day. They’re actually harder that CoF. Especially when you hit level 20 and above. Plus it takes too long for farmers to actually want to farm it.

I’m pretty sure people are/have been farming them (not to the same extent as CoF ofc), but I can only offer anecdotal evidence so I will bow to your superior knowledge on this one.

I’m not saying that the current set up is good. I’m saying that a) how to change it and what to change it to would be a complicated matter, therefore just using this one might be better for the game b) you can get the mats without farming, therefore it can go in line with the no farming policy.

A. I’m glad you are not saying the system is good, because it clearly isn’t. Changing it no doubt would be complicated I agree.
B. Again, it is the fact it is mat intensive which promotes the farm in the first place. See the opening of my response and most of my previous posts in this thread as to exactly why. The current system does not fit in with a no farming policy at all.

Mirta.5029:

buy to play, not free to play

True, but ANet keep pushing people to the cash store like any other F2P around…

Valanga.5942:

Mirta.5029:

buy to play, not free to play

True, but ANet keep pushing people to the cash store like any other F2P around…

so does warcraft, and that one has a subscription fee.

Jack of Tears.9458:

Im Mudbone.1437:

Why can’t we play the game the way we as individuals feel is fun and not as ANET seems to be preventing us from doing?

Because Anet wants MMOs to grow up and the only way they’ll do that is by taking their medicine; sometimes it’s a bitter pill. They knew when they moved away from the WoW model that there were gonna be people what didn’t like the changes, but you don’t make change by pandering to everyone.

Never played WoW and never will, sorry.

Valanga.5942:

Mirta.5029:

buy to play, not free to play

True, but ANet keep pushing people to the cash store like any other F2P around…

Because the cash store keeps the lights on. In a true F2P it also pays for the initial development cost so inventory slots are ridiculously few and all items are plain and generic in their looks. Here there is a lot of variation in appearance among the easily attainable armors and weapons and our inventory is reasonably sufficient if you use the free consumables that get dropped on you as rewards, even if you don’t need them.

I do have to say this about farming, I love to farm, I farm for my guilds need as well as my own(it’s how I make my IGM). I never stay in one spot very long and I do stalk the dragons and other events daily, but, it just seems I must play my game the way ANET decides I must play it. Why?

I never farm. I just play. It is way more fun.

Im Mudbone.1437:

I do have to say this about farming, I love to farm, I farm for my guilds need as well as my own(it’s how I make my IGM). I never stay in one spot very long and I do stalk the dragons and other events daily, but, it just seems I must play my game the way ANET decides I must play it. Why?

because
A) it’s their game
B) like other games they did state that they’re against farming. Both Tera and Guild Wars 2 discourage farming.
Older MMOs allow it and free to play MMO force you to do it. By now there should be an MMO for everyone on the market and I’m sure that you should be able to find one that allows you to farm.

Mirta.5029:

Im Mudbone.1437:

I do have to say this about farming, I love to farm, I farm for my guilds need as well as my own(it’s how I make my IGM). I never stay in one spot very long and I do stalk the dragons and other events daily, but, it just seems I must play my game the way ANET decides I must play it. Why?

because
A) it’s their game
B) like other games they did state that they’re against farming. Both Tera and Guild Wars 2 discourage farming.
Older MMOs allow it and free to play MMO force you to do it. By now there should be an MMO for everyone on the market and I’m sure that you should be able to find one that allows you to farm.

Like this.

Mirta.5029:

Im Mudbone.1437:

I do have to say this about farming, I love to farm, I farm for my guilds need as well as my own(it’s how I make my IGM). I never stay in one spot very long and I do stalk the dragons and other events daily, but, it just seems I must play my game the way ANET decides I must play it. Why?

because
A) it’s their game
B) like other games they did state that they’re against farming. Both Tera and Guild Wars 2 discourage farming.
Older MMOs allow it and free to play MMO force you to do it. By now there should be an MMO for everyone on the market and I’m sure that you should be able to find one that allows you to farm.

Name 1 thing that can be made in the game that does not REQUIRE crafting materials(which must be farmed)

Why would anyone farm on this game? Farming and grinding is not hardcore at all. There is no challenge in farming. Plus you can’t outgear your opponent in Spvp or WvW so why bother? The skin?

Look at Cof for example. Content is super easy , and is SUPRA easy with 4 wars and 1 mes. People grind it because they are in the treadmill mindset.

This treadmill mindset really hurts a game like GW2.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Mirta.5029:

Im Mudbone.1437:

I do have to say this about farming, I love to farm, I farm for my guilds need as well as my own(it’s how I make my IGM). I never stay in one spot very long and I do stalk the dragons and other events daily, but, it just seems I must play my game the way ANET decides I must play it. Why?

because
A) it’s their game
B) like other games they did state that they’re against farming. Both Tera and Guild Wars 2 discourage farming.
Older MMOs allow it and free to play MMO force you to do it. By now there should be an MMO for everyone on the market and I’m sure that you should be able to find one that allows you to farm.

Name 1 thing that can be made in the game that does not REQUIRE crafting materials(which must be farmed)

salvage kit.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Mirta.5029:

Im Mudbone.1437:

I do have to say this about farming, I love to farm, I farm for my guilds need as well as my own(it’s how I make my IGM). I never stay in one spot very long and I do stalk the dragons and other events daily, but, it just seems I must play my game the way ANET decides I must play it. Why?

because
A) it’s their game
B) like other games they did state that they’re against farming. Both Tera and Guild Wars 2 discourage farming.
Older MMOs allow it and free to play MMO force you to do it. By now there should be an MMO for everyone on the market and I’m sure that you should be able to find one that allows you to farm.

Name 1 thing that can be made in the game that does not REQUIRE crafting materials(which must be farmed)

1. Karma gear, dungeon gear, dungeon weapons, ascended items, skins.
I have most crafting professions maxed and I didn’t need to stand there killing mobs for the materials. There was enough from what I collected while clearing maps. And there are easier ways of getting gear and weapons than crafting.

Octavius, I understand where you are coming from and sympathize with what you’ve experienced. The only thing legendary about those items is the associated cost, but perhaps an even greater price is on the soul of the game.

However, while I have an anti-grind, anti-farm philosophy, there are cases where nerfs are necessary. A lot of people backlash against any nerf, perhaps believing that the best policy is to bring other parts up to a new level than strip something down. But if that were true, every dungeon could be speed-run.

There’s no need to explain what’s wrong with CoF Path 1. Elsewhere, dungeons have low traffic. Overall, paths being ignored in favor of quick rewards is the norm. The state of dungeons is melancholy; as far as this domain goes, there’s reason for action.

But really, the evidence is on your side. Legendaries: A cosmetic pursuit? That goes without saying. What it really is: a stain on the game.

crafting is by far the slowest way to get a full weapon and gear set IMO. Thankfully Anet gave players a way to get these gears faster and easier. I believe crafting is used only if you want one thing specific in stats and you want it instantly. Otherwise you will be spending your time in the TP buying mats with all your gold.

The simple answer for the OP is that if farming was easier, there would be less reason for players to use the cash shop.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Name 1 thing that can be made in the game that does not REQUIRE crafting materials(which must be farmed)

If you’re gathering materials while you’re runnin’ around having fun playing the game, I don’t think that really qualifies as farming. And the huge majority of my consumables come from a friend who doesn’t even need to gather on his own because I send him every ingredient I pick up while on my adventures; which is a win win for both of us – I don’t have to craft, he doesn’t have to gather. This whole “I must grind to feel like I’m accomplishing something” mind set is really past its prime; time to find your sense of accomplishment some other way.

Mirta.5029:

Distaste.4801:

Except this isn’t causing MMO’s to grow up. This is actually causing the exact opposite because by nerfing farming you actually have to farm more. What’s worse is it isn’t even like they have built good game mechanics around the idea of no farming. Nope, instead they just make drops incredibly low and implement diminishing returns.

so instead of stopping farming like you should you decided to farm even harder. “You can’t hit enemies trough the walls” “well maybe if I shoot 300 bullets into a wall I will hit someone, why do you make me waste my bullets you bad company?”. You won’t hit DR if you don’t stay in the same place for 30 minutes. I don’t see why it is that bad.

That’s why this is a terrible system, if you want the item you NEED to farm. Be it karma, crafting mats, money, etc. We aren’t even talking about just diminishing returns either, even without those kicking in some of the materials are absolutely grindtastic. A lot of people will lose interest in the game long before they even get the items, where if ArenaNet made them more attainable they might stay longer. Sure the hardcore players might feel less special because it no longer takes 200 hours of farming for some items, but it’s better for the community as a whole.

Keep in mind that I’m saying this as someone with 8 lvl 80’s, 1000+ hours(haven’t checked it lately), over 1.2 million karma sitting in my bank as jugs, 100+ laurels, etc. The game is far too grindy for normal people(IMO) and the anti-farm policy only contributes to that. The reason I won’t even touch dungeons anymore is it is pure grinding to get tokens to get gear. This is a HUGE step backwards from do a dungeon and at least get decent loot even if it’s not something you can use, especially if you got a token on top of the loot. Now take my opinion with a grain of salt because after just finishing my last lvl 80 I’m pretty much done with the game. Each patch is just more of the same, unrewarding grind.

Mirta.5029:

but if you just play the game instead of focusing on getting mats, you’ll get those mats eventually.

What if I don’t want to play that way? According to anet we are all supposed to be able to play the way WE want.

Mirta.5029:

1. Show the statement.
2. I have not needed to farm to get my crafting profession to level 400 even once. You get those mats while leveling no problem. Crafting is not the most profitable thing to do for money, however you don’t need to farm to get money either. I have not needed to farm even once in this game.

1. Its a well publicised statement that one of the devs made when they put in place anti bot measures.
2. Don’t believe you, I’ve tried on multiple characters and can’t even with using the most efficient crafting methods. What I do think is that what you regard as farming and what I regard as farming and playing the game are different.

Distaste.4801:

That’s why this is a terrible system, if you want the item you NEED to farm. Be it karma, crafting mats, money, etc. We aren’t even talking about just diminishing returns either, even without those kicking in some of the materials are absolutely grindtastic. A lot of people will lose interest in the game long before they even get the items, where if ArenaNet made them more attainable they might stay longer. Sure the hardcore players might feel less special because it no longer takes 200 hours of farming for some items, but it’s better for the community as a whole.

And as I stated before, I have never needed to farm in this game for anything. If they dropped the requirements this game would become so easy that a lot of people would quit.

Distaste.4801:

Keep in mind that I’m saying this as someone with 8 lvl 80’s, 1000+ hours(haven’t checked it lately), over 1.2 million karma sitting in my bank as jugs, 100+ laurels, etc. The game is far too grindy for normal people(IMO) and the anti-farm policy only contributes to that. The reason I won’t even touch dungeons anymore is it is pure grinding to get tokens to get gear. This is a HUGE step backwards from do a dungeon and at least get decent loot even if it’s not something you can use, especially if you got a token on top of the loot. Now take my opinion with a grain of salt because after just finishing my last lvl 80 I’m pretty much done with the game. Each patch is just more of the same, unrewarding grind.

1. 5 level 80s, 3 lower levels, all of my characters have above 40K karma on them, 120 jugs of karma in the bank and I’m close to buying my 4th ascended amulet and I don’t consider the game grindy. You know why? Because I didn’t actually need to do anything to get all of that. Laurels and karma both come from doing a daily that takes 15 minutes and doesn’t interrupt my regular play.
2. 20 runs (if you get no satchels with tickets dropping) and you will have your full gear. If you run it on the same character, 3 paths a day it will take you 7 days. I don’t consider that grindy. Compared to MMOs where you could run the content for years and don’t get it, or with some content in warcraft where if you repeatedly ran heroics it would still take longer it is in no way grindy.
3. Also getting money is not decent loot? First time I hear that. Also I’ve never seen a dungeon in any game that rewards you tokens to exchange for gear AND drops gear that people can roll on.

morrolan.9608:

What if I don’t want to play that way? According to anet we are all supposed to be able to play the way WE want.

you can play the way you want. You can play any class in any build that you want. However if you want to farm go somewhere else.

morrolan.9608:

1. Its a well publicised statement that one of the devs made when they put in place anti bot measures.
2. Don’t believe you, I’ve tried on multiple characters and can’t even with using the most efficient crafting methods. What I do think is that what you regard as farming and what I regard as farming and playing the game are different.

so completing some zones 100% is grinding?
Always discover recipes, they award more crafting exp, salvage the blues that you make for ingredients, or sell them to the vendor and buy more ingredients with the profit that you made, sell your greens, buy stuff that you need, sell your yellows, buy stuff that you need. I’ve never once lost a single copper to crafting, nor did I farm for it either. 100% map completion gives you 40 of a needed mat, plus whatever the mobs dropped in the map for you, likely in order to level up properly you’ll need to complete two of each kinds of maps (1-15 never actually raised me to 15. It left me at 14 at best, left me at 10 at worst), by the time you’re done with that you should have plenty of mats for crafting.

simple answer: gem store and the ability to convert gold to gems.

Dante.1508:

Firegoth.6427:

taomang.2183:

There is absolutely nothing legendary about Legendaries. By now a lot of people have them, and they aren’t even special or good looking.

You can say many things about legendaries, but how is:
*Shooting oversized unicorns
*Shooting confettis with irritating sounds
*Opening a window to the sky / abyss
*Covering yourself in chromatic skin
*Zapping everything around you
*Creating footsteps of all the above

Not special enough for you?

None of that is special in any way, it all pretty stupid actually.

Such a shame, I should start posting screens of all the times people told me how erotic my Sunrise is or “wth is that pistol? never seen anything like it!”
When was the last time you’ve read in party chat “oh wow look at that fiery sword”?

Crappy skins are crappy, it’s all about the effects! grrrrr

Firegoth.6427:

Dante.1508:

Firegoth.6427:

taomang.2183:

There is absolutely nothing legendary about Legendaries. By now a lot of people have them, and they aren’t even special or good looking.

You can say many things about legendaries, but how is:
*Shooting oversized unicorns
*Shooting confettis with irritating sounds
*Opening a window to the sky / abyss
*Covering yourself in chromatic skin
*Zapping everything around you
*Creating footsteps of all the above

Not special enough for you?

None of that is special in any way, it all pretty stupid actually.

Such a shame, I should start posting screens of all the times people told me how erotic my Sunrise is or “wth is that pistol? never seen anything like it!”
When was the last time you’ve read in party chat “oh wow look at that fiery sword”?

Crappy skins are crappy, it’s all about the effects! grrrrr

Just because every swing of the sword causes reality to crack open doesn’t mean that it puts my enemies that much closer to oblivion. I stopped trying to acquire Legendaries when did the math. I am not going to spend kittenloads of my time just to get something that is “pretty as kitten”.

Zacchary.6183:

Firegoth.6427:

Dante.1508:

Firegoth.6427:

taomang.2183:

There is absolutely nothing legendary about Legendaries. By now a lot of people have them, and they aren’t even special or good looking.

You can say many things about legendaries, but how is:
*Shooting oversized unicorns
*Shooting confettis with irritating sounds
*Opening a window to the sky / abyss
*Covering yourself in chromatic skin
*Zapping everything around you
*Creating footsteps of all the above

Not special enough for you?

None of that is special in any way, it all pretty stupid actually.

Such a shame, I should start posting screens of all the times people told me how erotic my Sunrise is or “wth is that pistol? never seen anything like it!”
When was the last time you’ve read in party chat “oh wow look at that fiery sword”?

Crappy skins are crappy, it’s all about the effects! grrrrr

Just because every swing of the sword causes reality to crack open doesn’t mean that it puts my enemies that much closer to oblivion. I stopped trying to acquire Legendaries when did the math. I am not going to spend kittenloads of my time just to get something that is “pretty as kitten”.

this is not a game that would make you overpowered, just because you got something hard to get. I’m glad to work for something that crack reality open. You can go back to an older MMO that would allow you to one shot newbs.

Mirta.5029:

Zacchary.6183:

Firegoth.6427:

Dante.1508:

Firegoth.6427:

taomang.2183:

There is absolutely nothing legendary about Legendaries. By now a lot of people have them, and they aren’t even special or good looking.

You can say many things about legendaries, but how is:
*Shooting oversized unicorns
*Shooting confettis with irritating sounds
*Opening a window to the sky / abyss
*Covering yourself in chromatic skin
*Zapping everything around you
*Creating footsteps of all the above

Not special enough for you?

None of that is special in any way, it all pretty stupid actually.

Such a shame, I should start posting screens of all the times people told me how erotic my Sunrise is or “wth is that pistol? never seen anything like it!”
When was the last time you’ve read in party chat “oh wow look at that fiery sword”?

Crappy skins are crappy, it’s all about the effects! grrrrr

Just because every swing of the sword causes reality to crack open doesn’t mean that it puts my enemies that much closer to oblivion. I stopped trying to acquire Legendaries when did the math. I am not going to spend kittenloads of my time just to get something that is “pretty as kitten”.

this is not a game that would make you overpowered, just because you got something hard to get. I’m glad to work for something that crack reality open. You can go back to an older MMO that would allow you to one shot newbs.

I don’t care about one-shotting newbs. I care about practicality of content. If I have to waste a chunk of my life just to obtain something that is slightly more effective than an Exo with the same kind of stat boosts, then there is no point in even looking at it.

It takes a legendary amount of nolifing to get a legendary, a very pretty weapon with very pretty effects that shows my very pretty nolifing kitten. Exactly how appealing does that sound?

Zacchary.6183:

Mirta.5029:

Zacchary.6183:

Firegoth.6427:

Dante.1508:

Firegoth.6427:

taomang.2183:

There is absolutely nothing legendary about Legendaries. By now a lot of people have them, and they aren’t even special or good looking.

You can say many things about legendaries, but how is:
*Shooting oversized unicorns
*Shooting confettis with irritating sounds
*Opening a window to the sky / abyss
*Covering yourself in chromatic skin
*Zapping everything around you
*Creating footsteps of all the above

Not special enough for you?

None of that is special in any way, it all pretty stupid actually.

Such a shame, I should start posting screens of all the times people told me how erotic my Sunrise is or “wth is that pistol? never seen anything like it!”
When was the last time you’ve read in party chat “oh wow look at that fiery sword”?

Crappy skins are crappy, it’s all about the effects! grrrrr

Just because every swing of the sword causes reality to crack open doesn’t mean that it puts my enemies that much closer to oblivion. I stopped trying to acquire Legendaries when did the math. I am not going to spend kittenloads of my time just to get something that is “pretty as kitten”.

this is not a game that would make you overpowered, just because you got something hard to get. I’m glad to work for something that crack reality open. You can go back to an older MMO that would allow you to one shot newbs.

I don’t care about one-shotting newbs. I care about practicality of content. If I have to waste a chunk of my life just to obtain something that is slightly more effective as an Exo with the same kind of stat boosts, then there is no point in even looking at it.

It takes a legendary amount of nolifing to get a legendary, a very pretty weapon with very pretty effects that shows my very pretty nolifing kitten. Exactly how appealing does that sound?

Pretty appealing. I prefer cosmetic upgrades to stat upgrades. I’ve made my peace with ascended gear, only because I feel there was a tier of gear missing between exotic and legendary.

But really I’d like to see the game max out on stats and not have another stat increase again, at least until an paid expansion.

^ The pun is strong in that one.

I finished my legendary yesterday, I wouldn’t say that there was much grind involved in it just 1 or 2 smart investments.

I think what some people are dissociating is grind as a necessary means for progress and the reality of needing gobs of items to produce a result.

While you don’t technically need to grind to get a legendary (there are multiple ways to acquire the items) the formula is familiar: in order to earn X, produce amounts of items A, D, F, G.

As crafting goes, no talent, skill or brainpower is needed beyond this point. If you possess the required items (and have thrown enough items down the pipe before it, “leveling” the discipline), you qualify to infinitely dispense goods with no added effort.

This isn’t new, innovative or remotely interesting. Crafting in GW2 is (to many of us) a long and boring journey to stockpile items, and that’s really what makes something feel like a grind.

In small doses it’s not as noticeable, but that’s where Legendaries enter, and really should’ve never hinged on using a system best for leveling characters that produces massive amounts of junk.

kokiman.2364:

I finished my legendary yesterday, I wouldn’t say that there was much grind involved in it just 1 or 2 smart investments.

Well since you can only get certain “gifts” if you grind a particular dungeon daily (Gift of Ascalon for example) or participate in WvW for quite a long time (Gift of Battle) besides the Gift of Exploration, I respectfully dispute your statement.

Behellagh.1468:

kokiman.2364:

I finished my legendary yesterday, I wouldn’t say that there was much grind involved in it just 1 or 2 smart investments.

Well since you can only get certain “gifts” if you grind a particular dungeon daily (Gift of Ascalon for example) or participate in WvW for quite a long time (Gift of Battle) besides the Gift of Exploration, I respectfully dispute your statement.

I suppose this is up to opinion. I personally have run many dungeons and have never felt like I was grinding. I run the dungeons because they are fun, and for nothing else. If, and when, I have enough tokens to buy a gift, I probably will.

Also many people would not agree that spending hours in WvW = grinding

Vayne.8563:

Pretty appealing. I prefer cosmetic upgrades to stat upgrades. I’ve made my peace with ascended gear, only because I feel there was a tier of gear missing between exotic and legendary.

But really I’d like to see the game max out on stats and not have another stat increase again, at least until an paid expansion.

I agree with you on the preference on cosmetic over stats… But still i don’t get how did you feel that there was a tier missing?
I mean, Legendary has the same stats of Exotic, so there was NO tier from them…
And i still fail to understand why i can’t craft or acquire ascendent gear via karma or other ways, but only by doing what ANet wants us to do (fractals and bounty bugged stuff)… So much for “play the way you want”

Behellagh.1468:

kokiman.2364:

I finished my legendary yesterday, I wouldn’t say that there was much grind involved in it just 1 or 2 smart investments.

Well since you can only get certain “gifts” if you grind a particular dungeon daily (Gift of Ascalon for example) or participate in WvW for quite a long time (Gift of Battle) besides the Gift of Exploration, I respectfully dispute your statement.

for the gift bought in the dungeon you will need to run the dungeon 9 times. For full dungeon gear you would need to run it 20 times. I don’t consider any of this a grind.
Completing th full map can feel pleasureful. I have the gift of exploration myself even though I’m not planning on getting a legendary.
WvW is a different matter.

It’s a grind when you can’t get 4 other players to play anything other than the speedrun path. Or even getting teammates because you aren’t pimped out for speedruns in the first place. Or even if you simply dislike teaming in general since it’s not required in the bulk of the rest of the game to earn rewards.

Being required to do something you normally wouldn’t do because you need to earn enough skee-ball tickets to buy the thing you need to make the thing you need to make the thing you want … essentially defines grind. What was that piece over at “Extra Credits”, intrinsic vs extrinsic rewards.

Behellagh.1468:

It’s a grind when you can’t get 4 other players to play anything other than the speedrun path. Or even getting teammates because you aren’t pimped out for speedruns in the first place. Or even if you simply dislike teaming in general since it’s not required in the bulk of the rest of the game to earn rewards.

Being required to do something you normally wouldn’t do because you need to earn enough skee-ball tickets to buy the thing you need to make the thing you need to make the thing you want … essentially defines grind. What was that piece over at “Extra Credits”, intrinsic vs extrinsic rewards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h86g-XgUCA8

a grind is not doing something you dislike, but repeating the same thing over and over again. You could, I don’t know, get enough money and just buy a legendary then?
Also how about you tell players that you won’t be skipping anything when you post an LFG? And if you dislike teaming in general why are you playing an MMO?

Jemmi.6058:

I suppose this is up to opinion. I personally have run many dungeons and have never felt like I was grinding. I run the dungeons because they are fun, and for nothing else. If, and when, I have enough tokens to buy a gift, I probably will.

Also many people would not agree that spending hours in WvW = grinding

Thats just says you don’t mind grinding (or at least that form), not that it isn’t grinding. It is under any definition.

Mirta.5029:

a grind is not doing something you dislike, but repeating the same thing over and over again. You could, I don’t know, get enough money and just buy a legendary then?
Also how about you tell players that you won’t be skipping anything when you post an LFG? And if you dislike teaming in general why are you playing an MMO?

Don’t you think I don’t ask for non speed runs in my LFG? I get zero interest. Sorry waiting an hour to get four other players who aren’t interested in doing a speedrun or mind walking a newb through it isn’t my idea of player the game.

And I’m talking about the requirements for crafting. I wouldn’t need to farm for anything if I could just buy a Legendary. The thread is about if farming is mandatory or not.

I don’t dislike teaming. I dislike the downtime in forming a team. Some team leaders are quite picky when it comes to who they are looking for as teammates. I’m simply pointing out that in all the activities in this game, only dungeons, including fractals, are the only content that require forming an actual old school MMO team. Even WvW is a free for all, you just follow the swarm of green dots or run toward the cross swords on your minimap.

Behellagh.1468:

Mirta.5029:

a grind is not doing something you dislike, but repeating the same thing over and over again. You could, I don’t know, get enough money and just buy a legendary then?
Also how about you tell players that you won’t be skipping anything when you post an LFG? And if you dislike teaming in general why are you playing an MMO?

Don’t you think I don’t ask for non speed runs in my LFG? I get zero interest. Sorry waiting an hour to get four other players who aren’t interested in doing a speedrun or mind walking a newb through it isn’t my idea of player the game.

And I’m talking about the requirements for crafting. I wouldn’t need to farm for anything if I could just buy a Legendary. The thread is about if farming is mandatory or not.

I don’t dislike teaming. I dislike the downtime in forming a team. Some team leaders are quite picky when it comes to who they are looking for as teammates. I’m simply pointing out that in all the activities in this game, only dungeons, including fractals, are the only content that require forming an actual old school MMO team. Even WvW is a free for all, you just follow the swarm of green dots or run toward the cross swords on your minimap.

You’re posting on gw2lft.com ?

No by the dungeon. I’m have enough trouble noticing when someone tries to chat we me while playing and the chat window is on screen. I imagine I wouldn’t alt-tab back to the browser often enough to see if someone answered my request. It’s not like I have multiple screens at home so I can multitask a full screen game with a browser with all the useful sites running on the other.

Behellagh.1468:

No by the dungeon. I’m have enough trouble noticing when someone tries to chat we me while playing and the chat window is on screen. I imagine I wouldn’t alt-tab back to the browser often enough to see if someone answered my request. It’s not like I have multiple screens at home so I can multitask a full screen game with a browser with all the useful sites running on the other.

I guess you never tried the site. Post on the site, don’t go back to it at all, and tell people to whisper you in game. You’ll get parties much faster.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Im Mudbone.1437:

Mirta.5029:

Im Mudbone.1437:

I do have to say this about farming, I love to farm, I farm for my guilds need as well as my own(it’s how I make my IGM). I never stay in one spot very long and I do stalk the dragons and other events daily, but, it just seems I must play my game the way ANET decides I must play it. Why?

because
A) it’s their game
B) like other games they did state that they’re against farming. Both Tera and Guild Wars 2 discourage farming.
Older MMOs allow it and free to play MMO force you to do it. By now there should be an MMO for everyone on the market and I’m sure that you should be able to find one that allows you to farm.

Name 1 thing that can be made in the game that does not REQUIRE crafting materials(which must be farmed)

salvage kit.

You still need to kill kittenloads of enemies to get junk gear to salvage.

Behellagh.1468:

Mirta.5029:

a grind is not doing something you dislike, but repeating the same thing over and over again. You could, I don’t know, get enough money and just buy a legendary then?
Also how about you tell players that you won’t be skipping anything when you post an LFG? And if you dislike teaming in general why are you playing an MMO?

Don’t you think I don’t ask for non speed runs in my LFG? I get zero interest. Sorry waiting an hour to get four other players who aren’t interested in doing a speedrun or mind walking a newb through it isn’t my idea of player the game.

And I’m talking about the requirements for crafting. I wouldn’t need to farm for anything if I could just buy a Legendary. The thread is about if farming is mandatory or not.

I don’t dislike teaming. I dislike the downtime in forming a team. Some team leaders are quite picky when it comes to who they are looking for as teammates. I’m simply pointing out that in all the activities in this game, only dungeons, including fractals, are the only content that require forming an actual old school MMO team. Even WvW is a free for all, you just follow the swarm of green dots or run toward the cross swords on your minimap.

I pretty much never speedrun. http://www.gw2lfg.com/ this makes finding a group so much easier.
You can just buy a legendary off the TP

This game requires lots of farming. It’s just not quite as much as required by some other games, so a lot of people defend it even to the point of being ridiculous.

Vayne.8563:

Behellagh.1468:

No by the dungeon. I’m have enough trouble noticing when someone tries to chat we me while playing and the chat window is on screen. I imagine I wouldn’t alt-tab back to the browser often enough to see if someone answered my request. It’s not like I have multiple screens at home so I can multitask a full screen game with a browser with all the useful sites running on the other.

I guess you never tried the site. Post on the site, don’t go back to it at all, and tell people to whisper you in game. You’ll get parties much faster.

The interface looks like a form letter and I don’t see a list of others looking.

Well thank you, maybe I’ll try it someday.

Edit: Ah, I see, google took me to the new LFG page and not the main one.

They aren’t talking about farming as being the collection of large amounts of things.

They are talking about the repetition of whatever content currently is thought to provide the best rewards to the exclusion of all other content.

These situations are pretty much inevitable, even if they perfect it they will then add a new dungeon or fix a bug and it’s screwed up again. Diminishing Returns is basically a way of ‘self-healing’ these problems.

They do it because they understand simple psychology of MMOs. The players are willing to do the most boring things over and over if they think it means more carrots…and when it gets boring they dont’ blame themselves..they start to blame the game, call it boring, and quit. It might not be fair, but it’s psychology! To keep you playing, they try to make you explore a variety of content even if you go kicking and screaming.