Guild Wars 2

I really don’t have strong and supported arguments, so this is pretty much my bias and intuition. Still, I feel there is enough “bias evidence” to have this concern.

I can’t but not notice how many people which were the ones who created GW2 (and even Guild Wars) have left it for other company and other game. That is a big alarm for me. For me it says those people lost the passion for Guild Wars 2, they lost vision for it, or maybe they don’t even enjoy the way GW2 changed and is changing. We must be aware that the directions game is developed aren’t always shared with every staff member, so that can be strong enough reason for them to leave it cuz they just can’t accept it.
People which are left can be completely “new staff”, people which aren’t the original creators and they have completely different vision and passion. And personally, I am VERY afraid of those new people! They can completely change the game, the way it feels, the way story is told, the way Lore is continued, the way Story should be can be changed! We shouldn’t forget how many times GW2 went into modern issues (mainly lgbt and feminist movements) for some personal agenda members of GW2 have. Games should be games, not modern politics.

Another problem I have is lack of the skill updates, there is no reason for it, except low amount of passion for fixing disbalance.

There is also a fact many features are already abandoned, we can’t forget dungeons and we can’t ignore the fact most features which are promised still aren’t done (legendary weapons, armors, etc.).

There is also WvW which feels very abandoned. It feels like Anet doesn’t have enough passion for working on it, like they have lost vision for it, what it should be, how it should be played for us to really enjoy it.

I am afraid they are doing everything with minimum amount of the passion and that scares me! Some do like HoT, some don’t. Tho we can all agree that it is different type of game, it’s different vision, different passion, different staff…and it personally doesn’t feel like Guild Wars universe.

Story is also a big alarm, it feels so lost, so rushed in some parts, so slow in some others, like they are buying time to create something for us, so they leave us with some useless drama to keep us “entertained”.

Also I feel like Guild Wars lost the touch of it’s original universe! Since the EotN it was suddenly only about dragons! Dragons, dragons, and dragons. And more dragons. And only dragons. That is not what Guild Wars universe should be about. Guild Wars has rich Lore, which isn’t even touched in Guild Wars 2. I ask myself, why?

With all my heart I wish Guild Wars 2 is already done with dragons, at this point I don’t even care how we kill them, do we kill them, or will they destroy us. I just want that story to be over, so we can get new enemies, ones which aren’t connected or manipulated with/by dragons! I want new nemesis like Shiro was, or Abaddon, or White Mantle and Titans!

This is all pretty much big bias from me, but I must say it somewhere, I must put it out of my chest, because my dear Guild Wars doesn’t feel like Guild Wars, it feels like a World with no passion, with no vision. It feels lost, different and abandoned.

I don’t want History to be repeated. Because Anet already did leave one of their games

You’re the pessimistic one, aren’t you ?

Mikali.9651:

I really don’t have strong and supported arguments, so this is pretty much my bias and intuition. Still, I feel there is enough “bias evidence” to have this concern.

I can’t but not notice how many people which were the ones who created GW2 (and even Guild Wars) have left it for other company and other game. That is a big alarm for me. For me it says those people lost the passion for Guild Wars 2, they lost vision for it, or maybe they don’t even enjoy the way GW2 changed and is changing. We must be aware that the directions game is developed aren’t always shared with every staff member, so that can be strong enough reason for them to leave it cuz they just can’t accept it.
People which are left can be completely “new staff”, people which aren’t the original creators and they have completely different vision and passion. And personally, I am VERY afraid of those new people! They can completely change the game, the way it feels, the way story is told, the way Lore is continued, the way Story should be can be changed!

This, or the fact that spending so many years on the same game or universe can make you feel like : “I did all that I could”, and want to move on to something new. But what you say can be true as well.
Anyway, it’s really true that, considering GW2 is actually more of a GW1.5, it’s hard to keep up with big changes in the staff.

Mikali.9651:

Another problem I have is lack of the skill updates, there is no reason for it, except low amount of passion for fixing disbalance.

You’re wrong about this ! Just check how many new skills were given to mobs since HoT. How many new mobs with new skills. Just think how Gabrielle in DBL Academy has a nice set of skills for staff Ele. They are very creative and create lots of new skills ! Those just aren’t for players. (That’s sarcasm, of course)

Mikali.9651:

There is also a fact many features are already abandoned, we can’t forget dungeons and we can’t ignore the fact most features which are promised still aren’t done (legendary weapons, armors, etc.).

There is also WvW which feels very abandoned. It feels like Anet doesn’t have enough passion for working on it, like they have lost vision for it, what it should be, how it should be played for us to really enjoy it.

Talking about abandoned features next to WvW made me think about the WvW overhaul.

Mikali.9651:

Story is also a big alarm, it feels so lost, so rushed in some parts, so slow in some others, like they are buying time to create something for us, so they leave us with some useless drama to keep us “entertained”.

I sincerly hope you’re right on this one, because it’d mean they’re actually creating something big ;-)

Mikali.9651:

Also I feel like Guild Wars lost the touch of it’s original universe! Since the EotN it was suddenly only about dragons! Dragons, dragons, and dragons. And more dragons. And only dragons. That is not what Guild Wars universe should be about. Guild Wars has rich Lore, which isn’t even touched in Guild Wars 2. I ask myself, why?

42 ?

Mikali.9651:

I want new nemesis like Shiro was, or Abaddon, or White Mantle and Titans!

I can understand. As far as I’m concerned, I don’t want new nemesis. I want trash mobs that’d be like me, i.e. running the same skills with roughly the same stats.

Why should I be labeled as pessimistic if I share my thoughts? My man, my man, my optimistic friend <3

Mikali.9651:

Why should I be labeled as pessimistic if I share my thoughts? My man, my man, my optimistic friend <3

If someone’s opinions are all negative when there’s positive other reasons for what they say then that person is pessimistic.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Mikali.9651:

Why should I be labeled as pessimistic if I share my thoughts? My man, my man, my optimistic friend <3

If someone’s opinions are all negative when there’s positive other reasons for what they say then that person is pessimistic.

that is very black and white way to see things. and very wrong one

Mikali.9651:

Why should I be labeled as pessimistic if I share my thoughts? My man, my man, my optimistic friend <3

Nothing wrong with sharing thoughts of course ! I also like to share my thoughts on things like the frequency of updates or some designs decision that I find discutable here and there…

The thing is I think the staff is getting thinner and thinner, and they’re overwhelmed by the amount of things left to do in every aspects this game has.

But that’s not pessimism of course !

Long live the imperator !

ThomasC.1056:

Mikali.9651:

Why should I be labeled as pessimistic if I share my thoughts? My man, my man, my optimistic friend <3

Nothing wrong with sharing thoughts of course ! I also like to share my thoughts on things like the frequency of updates or some designs decision that I find discutable here and there…

The thing is I think the staff is getting thinner and thinner, and they’re overwhelmed by the amount of things left to do in every aspects this game has.

But that’s not pessimism of course !

Long live the imperator !

the way I see it, if you are posting your thoughts you are not expected to write every side down. I mean, what would be the purpose of this thread if I am to continue with…“but ya all know, it’s still great game, so much fun, I like unicorns and tea which my rpg friend made me, I like how games looks, music and sounds are so nice…”

Like srsly, the point of this thread isn’t to describe every part of the game, but just some parts of my thought and issues I have with the game. You are free to calm my mind anytime, but then do it right, not with labels

And yeah, why is staff getting thinner and thinner? That is interesting way to look at current state of mind Anet staff has

Ack, my bad. Irony doesn’t really show in forums. I’ll therefore be plain and will avoid my “read between the lines” biais.

As sad as I think it is, I agree with most of your post. And I also agree that if the game has severe flaws, then light has to be shed on it.

Now, on a lighter tone : I may be as pessimistic as you are, after all ;-)

I’ve already answered this post elsewhere, and I’ll answer it again here with the same words:

First, in order for any of what you say to make any sense at all, you need some facts. Like how many people stay with the same game in gaming for more than five years. It’s probably not as common as you think.

You’re drawing some kind of correlation about devs leaving a game, assuming devs are staying with a single game for passion and commitment. I used to work in retail and I left one company for another company. I was equally committed to both companies, but one offered me better compensation. People don’t always, or even usually, leave jobs just because they don’t like what they’re doing. Sometimes they’re just progressing their career.

Amazon Studios has an offiice right near Anet and they’re working on three games. If you think Anet can match Amazon’s salary, I’m not sure what to tell you.

Old games are often left alone after new games come out. Particularly in the case of sequels. That’s how it usually goes. I don’t see a tremendous amount of support for Oblivion now that Skyrim has come out. Not from the developer anyway.
I think that you have no clue how the business works and because of that, commenting on it is pointless.

Even if we wanted to draw conclusions about what’s going on at Anet, we really don’t know enough. You’d have to work there or know someone who works there.

Vayne.8563:

I’ve already answered this post elsewhere, and I’ll answer it again here with the same words:

First, in order for any of what you say to make any sense at all, you need some facts. Like how many people stay with the same game in gaming for more than five years. It’s probably not as common as you think.

You’re drawing some kind of correlation about devs leaving a game, assuming devs are staying with a single game for passion and commitment. I used to work in retail and I left one company for another company. I was equally committed to both companies, but one offered me better compensation. People don’t always, or even usually, leave jobs just because they don’t like what they’re doing. Sometimes they’re just progressing their career.

Amazon Studios has an offiice right near Anet and they’re working on three games. If you think Anet can match Amazon’s salary, I’m not sure what to tell you.

Old games are often left alone after new games come out. Particularly in the case of sequels. That’s how it usually goes. I don’t see a tremendous amount of support for Oblivion now that Skyrim has come out. Not from the developer anyway.
I think that you have no clue how the business works and because of that, commenting on it is pointless.

Even if we wanted to draw conclusions about what’s going on at Anet, we really don’t know enough. You’d have to work there or know someone who works there.

but…why should I need facts if these are my concerns? I never have stated anywhere something is a fact. Good, strong arguments or not, I’ve never not even once said it’s really the way it is, I used words “I think”, “I feel”, “i am afraid” to distance myself for generalization.

I don’t see every thread here stating facts when asking questions or sharing concerns…and thanks for answers, they help me calm down…

Mikali.9651:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve already answered this post elsewhere, and I’ll answer it again here with the same words:

First, in order for any of what you say to make any sense at all, you need some facts. Like how many people stay with the same game in gaming for more than five years. It’s probably not as common as you think.

You’re drawing some kind of correlation about devs leaving a game, assuming devs are staying with a single game for passion and commitment. I used to work in retail and I left one company for another company. I was equally committed to both companies, but one offered me better compensation. People don’t always, or even usually, leave jobs just because they don’t like what they’re doing. Sometimes they’re just progressing their career.

Amazon Studios has an offiice right near Anet and they’re working on three games. If you think Anet can match Amazon’s salary, I’m not sure what to tell you.

Old games are often left alone after new games come out. Particularly in the case of sequels. That’s how it usually goes. I don’t see a tremendous amount of support for Oblivion now that Skyrim has come out. Not from the developer anyway.
I think that you have no clue how the business works and because of that, commenting on it is pointless.

Even if we wanted to draw conclusions about what’s going on at Anet, we really don’t know enough. You’d have to work there or know someone who works there.

but…why should I need facts if these are my concerns? I never have stated anywhere something is a fact. Good, strong arguments or not, I’ve never not even once said it’s really the way it is, I used words “I think”, “I feel”, “i am afraid” to distance myself for generalization.

I don’t see every thread here stating facts when asking questions or sharing concerns…and thanks for answers, they help me calm down…

You don’t need facts to have concerns. However, when someone gives you some facts that allay your concerns, you probably shouldn’t ignore them either.

You state directly that you feel devs are leaving Anet because they don’t believe in the game. That’s a fear of yours. But I’ve stated, factually that Amazon is pretty much down the road, that they’re working on three games, and they’ve hired away a number of devs. That should at least indicate to you that your fears may be unfounded.

In order for your concerns to be something we should worry about, we’d need to know the normal turnover in the industry at most places and compare that turnover to what’s going on at Anet. We don’t have that information.

Essentially I feel your post is alarmist. I’m trying to help you to see that there may be other reasons for devs to move from one company to another besides not believing in a game. You can do what you want with that info.

I just can’t agree with OP. Since my opinion is also based on felings and no fact I won’t go into all details but on a more general note I quite frankly find disturbing or even ridiculous that the OP goes into so much details right a few days after Mo gives us some details about the upcoming update. These kind of threads always pop up when the activity within the game is in a low point. There is nothing much to worry about imo.

I’d say the OP has some legitimate concerns.

MANY of the original founders of ANet and instrumental members who helped develop the original game and its lore — and helped craft the oft-neglected manifesto of the game — are now gone. We’re operating on a whole new frequency that changes with every update, it seems. Core Tyria, HoT, even portions of Living Story content are completely divergent in style and play. It’s very troubling because, as a veteran player, it means that everything I’ve already worked for might be moot or change entirely all over again on a whim. Like specializations did.

And that’s something we were promised wouldn’t happen, but it did once already.

They’re also correct in asserting that it feels very much as though a huge portion of the original lore of Tyria has been turned into half-finished lore books scattered around maps rather than the deep and vibrant portion it served in Prophecies, Factions, and Nightfall. I can understand wanting to separate from the original trilogy of campaigns to lower the bar of entry and ensure a more approachable narrative for players who did not play the original Guild Wars — and I can attest to knowing several friends who did not and greatly enjoy Guild Wars 2 nonetheless, so clearly this worked in ANet’s favor — but for those of us who have been around since Prophecies, it feels like much of what kept us here is gone.

There’s no more Elona, no more Cantha, not even Palawa Joko except as flavor-text on an item. If anything, we have to look to skills and themes carried over (and inevitably changed) to find nostalgia.

And there is a definite concern over the lack of balance updates instead of feature and cosmetic additions. Yes having new outfits and skins is great, and I’ve gotten a few of them myself, but there are dozens of skills in the game — player skills, not monsters! — which have not be redressed in years. I myself ran a survey of Ranger and Thief (before work hours prevented me from crafting others) and found that many skills were completely overlooked for a very long time because they were simply inferior to their counterparts.

And with the introduction of Elite Specializations, that disparity has only gotten to be even more unhinged, where I’ve heard and read countless players saying that, in many cases and game modes, not running these specs is to one’s detriment. And in a lot of cases, they’re right.

The power creep is indeed real, and while ANet is taking pains to smooth it out and bring everything up to speed, it feels like some teams are being neglected or undercut, and unable to deliver for very long periods at a time. And that speaks of internal strife which none of us would want to see in the company that not only brought us Guild Wars 2, but also keeps it alive.

I think that this is what the OP was trying to capture — a worry that what we’re seeing is what we’re being allowed to see, and that things might be on a steady decline. And as for someone who has been around since launch and tracked many of the changes and developments since Beta, I’d say yes. Yes there really is a strange change in direction going on.

On the concern topic, and related to HoT, I’m not sure whether these are facts but when they’re put one next to another, they seem to make sense.

HoT was advertised and hyped because :

• Revenant : that profession feels unfinished. It was said it’d be tweaked, but it’s not. Mallyx stance has been severly altered just before release making lots of traits irrelevant, and that’s never been adressed.
• Elite specs : a good idea, but frequency is ridiculous. Moreover, people complain about them that they caused the power creep, and the lack of diversity because they’re supposed to be mandatory in most builds. A rationale explanation is ANet wants people to buy HoT and so made vanillia average. I’m not discussing whether this is true or false, but I’m just underlining it’s not a compliment.
• Verticality : not so bad on this one, but TD is a mess.
• Stronghold mode : it has been removed from ranked PvP so I think that’s a sign of defiance
• Challenging content : some discussions I saw are now asking for a nerf to HP because HP trains are now killing meta events
• Desert Borderland : the whole ruckus last summer about removing it plainly from WvW speaks for itself.

So, maybe players posting on the forums are just demanding kids ranting and ranting, or ANet critically failed on that one. As far as I’m concerned, I fondly enjoyed HoT. But from a dev’s point of view, having such a part of my work being tossed to the sewers is not the most encouraging thing.

So I can suppose (now it’s pure speculation) that ANet’s become really cautious about what they release.

ThomasC.1056:

• Challenging content : some discussions I saw are now asking for a nerf to HP because HP trains are now killing meta events.

Challenging content =/=HP, but raids and I’m not saying this, anet said it in a blog post before HoT launched.

If the OP feels ANet is abandoning GW2, there’s nothing that anyone here can say to change that.

The facts are that we are getting balance updates, content updates, story updates, and more at about the same rate as we got with LS2 — obviously LS1 had the most dynamic changes, since it was designed to be full of frequent changes, while LS2 was designed to involve fewer updates.

It’s not relevant how many long-time ANet employees have stayed with the game, since other companies can afford to pay more for experienced talent. Plus, considering not even every huge fan of GW2 can play the game for years, it’s hardly a surprise that some developers would want to try their hand at something new.

There’s no question that ANet isn’t perfect: they’ve goofed a lot of simple stuff and overthought a lot of straightforward ideas.

In the end, none of that matters. The only important thing is: are you having fun? If you are, then the mistakes are largely irrelevant; if you aren’t, then they are a good focal point for one’s frustration.

ThomasC.1056:

• Elite specs : a good idea, but frequency is ridiculous. Moreover, people complain about them that they caused the power creep, and the lack of diversity because they’re supposed to be mandatory in most builds. A rationale explanation is ANet wants people to buy HoT and so made vanillia average. I’m not discussing whether this is true or false, but I’m just underlining it’s not a compliment.

That is the presumption of players, especially those in PvP and WvW who had no concept how to counter the new sub professions. Plus it takes a while to balance something new Vs something that’s been around for 3 years. Pretty sure it was never ANet’s intention to supplant the core professions from PvP and WvW as it smacks of P2W.

• Desert Borderland : the whole ruckus last summer about removing it plainly from WvW speaks for itself.

The original version of the DB map were horrible in terms of travel and the periodic capture the flag mega cannon event which one shot all loser keep gates simply wasn’t enjoyable. ANet introduced the current DB map just before they were swapped out, for a while, which significantly improved the ease of travel across the map. I think the current 1 DB, 2AB maps is helping to ease WvW players into the newer DB map since the original is often pointed at as a primary cause of the drop off of WvW game play.

fluffdragon.1523:

I’d say the OP has some legitimate concerns.

MANY of the original founders of ANet and instrumental members who helped develop the original game and its lore — and helped craft the oft-neglected manifesto of the game — are now gone. We’re operating on a whole new frequency that changes with every update, it seems. Core Tyria, HoT, even portions of Living Story content are completely divergent in style and play. It’s very troubling because, as a veteran player, it means that everything I’ve already worked for might be moot or change entirely all over again on a whim. Like specializations did.

And that’s something we were promised wouldn’t happen, but it did once already.

They’re also correct in asserting that it feels very much as though a huge portion of the original lore of Tyria has been turned into half-finished lore books scattered around maps rather than the deep and vibrant portion it served in Prophecies, Factions, and Nightfall. I can understand wanting to separate from the original trilogy of campaigns to lower the bar of entry and ensure a more approachable narrative for players who did not play the original Guild Wars — and I can attest to knowing several friends who did not and greatly enjoy Guild Wars 2 nonetheless, so clearly this worked in ANet’s favor — but for those of us who have been around since Prophecies, it feels like much of what kept us here is gone.

There’s no more Elona, no more Cantha, not even Palawa Joko except as flavor-text on an item. If anything, we have to look to skills and themes carried over (and inevitably changed) to find nostalgia.

And there is a definite concern over the lack of balance updates instead of feature and cosmetic additions. Yes having new outfits and skins is great, and I’ve gotten a few of them myself, but there are dozens of skills in the game — player skills, not monsters! — which have not be redressed in years. I myself ran a survey of Ranger and Thief (before work hours prevented me from crafting others) and found that many skills were completely overlooked for a very long time because they were simply inferior to their counterparts.

And with the introduction of Elite Specializations, that disparity has only gotten to be even more unhinged, where I’ve heard and read countless players saying that, in many cases and game modes, not running these specs is to one’s detriment. And in a lot of cases, they’re right.

The power creep is indeed real, and while ANet is taking pains to smooth it out and bring everything up to speed, it feels like some teams are being neglected or undercut, and unable to deliver for very long periods at a time. And that speaks of internal strife which none of us would want to see in the company that not only brought us Guild Wars 2, but also keeps it alive.

I think that this is what the OP was trying to capture — a worry that what we’re seeing is what we’re being allowed to see, and that things might be on a steady decline. And as for someone who has been around since launch and tracked many of the changes and developments since Beta, I’d say yes. Yes there really is a strange change in direction going on.

yeah, you understand what I am trying to say. Main concern is care for Lore and what did it become. It doesn’t feel like Guild Wars Lore, it’s so simplistic, all over the place, without strong feel…it really feels like completely different team is working on it

I wouldnt even call these skill updates, they’re just minor tweaks for most part, changing aftercast/recharge/casting time. Rarely do we get to see a GW1 skill update, where they actually change a useless skill into something else. Sometimes for the better sometimes not. ie glimmering mark or double dragon Players started to actually use them once they got changed and brought in with a skill update. The same thing can be done in gw2 with many of their unused utility skills and even the racial ones too. I know myself i love playing a norn, chose them to invoke and change into a bear or wolf but those elites are really bad and too long of recharge for pve fun mode. So to me changing a skill or a functionality like shadowstep/teleport is a skill update, but changing aftercast/cast/recharge by .3 seconds is not and that’s what most of their skill updates are changing things that don’t matter to 80% or more of the gaming population

I won’t leave unless gaile gray does. You know the company is in trouble if she leaves.

I feel you are wrong.

Odin the exiled.5764:

I wouldnt even call these skill updates, they’re just minor tweaks for most part, changing aftercast/recharge/casting time. Rarely do we get to see a GW1 skill update, where they actually change a useless skill into something else. Sometimes for the better sometimes not. ie glimmering mark or double dragon Players started to actually use them once they got changed and brought in with a skill update. The same thing can be done in gw2 with many of their unused utility skills and even the racial ones too. I know myself i love playing a norn, chose them to invoke and change into a bear or wolf but those elites are really bad and too long of recharge for pve fun mode. So to me changing a skill or a functionality like shadowstep/teleport is a skill update, but changing aftercast/cast/recharge by .3 seconds is not and that’s what most of their skill updates are changing things that don’t matter to 80% or more of the gaming population

Exactly this. I am astonished how rare skill updates are, as a person who is programming in Unreal Engine 4 and is making skill system there isn’t really so much work as they claim there is. I am seriously questioning their will to do anything, it’s seems like they are saying “ooh whatever…we will do it later, go play table tennis!”.

At first glance I did buy all the “Wait before meta is set so we can really see what is too strong”, but atm it’s ridiculous, just by seeing patch notes we players can already see what does skill change means

This, and many other concerns, leave me to question how exactly big Anet team is at this moment? It seems like they have lost a lot of staff – that is the only explanation I have

Behellagh.1468:

ThomasC.1056:

• Elite specs : a good idea, but frequency is ridiculous. Moreover, people complain about them that they caused the power creep, and the lack of diversity because they’re supposed to be mandatory in most builds. A rationale explanation is ANet wants people to buy HoT and so made vanillia average. I’m not discussing whether this is true or false, but I’m just underlining it’s not a compliment.

That is the presumption of players, especially those in PvP and WvW who had no concept how to counter the new sub professions. Plus it takes a while to balance something new Vs something that’s been around for 3 years. Pretty sure it was never ANet’s intention to supplant the core professions from PvP and WvW as it smacks of P2W.

• Desert Borderland : the whole ruckus last summer about removing it plainly from WvW speaks for itself.

The original version of the DB map were horrible in terms of travel and the periodic capture the flag mega cannon event which one shot all loser keep gates simply wasn’t enjoyable. ANet introduced the current DB map just before they were swapped out, for a while, which significantly improved the ease of travel across the map. I think the current 1 DB, 2AB maps is helping to ease WvW players into the newer DB map since the original is often pointed at as a primary cause of the drop off of WvW game play.

I should have stated better : those aren’t necessarily my opinion (and I enjoy DBL as it is, just like you’re saying), nor is it some kind of truth.
It’s mostly rants that I’ve read here and there, and that I gathered to show how negative feedback has been since HoT was released.

If one were to tell an overarching story of the US set in the year 2017 it would be very different, naturally and by necessity, than one set in the mid 1700’s. That would not be an abandonment of, “lore,” just the reality of a world not frozen in time.

Odin the exiled.5764:

I wouldnt even call these skill updates, they’re just minor tweaks for most part, changing aftercast/recharge/casting time. Rarely do we get to see a GW1 skill update, where they actually change a useless skill into something else. Sometimes for the better sometimes not. ie glimmering mark or double dragon Players started to actually use them once they got changed and brought in with a skill update. The same thing can be done in gw2 with many of their unused utility skills and even the racial ones too. I know myself i love playing a norn, chose them to invoke and change into a bear or wolf but those elites are really bad and too long of recharge for pve fun mode. So to me changing a skill or a functionality like shadowstep/teleport is a skill update, but changing aftercast/cast/recharge by .3 seconds is not and that’s what most of their skill updates are changing things that don’t matter to 80% or more of the gaming population

Because the devs learned from GW that balancing was a shear nightmare. As a player you may have found it fun to find the next broken combination of traits and skills which forced a complete re-balance but the devs didn’t. That’s why GW2 has a much simpler skill and trait system to make balancing easier. And easier means tweaking not overhauling.

And yet balance in GW2 is a mess (IMO).

Behellagh.1468:

Odin the exiled.5764:

I wouldnt even call these skill updates, they’re just minor tweaks for most part, changing aftercast/recharge/casting time. Rarely do we get to see a GW1 skill update, where they actually change a useless skill into something else. Sometimes for the better sometimes not. ie glimmering mark or double dragon Players started to actually use them once they got changed and brought in with a skill update. The same thing can be done in gw2 with many of their unused utility skills and even the racial ones too. I know myself i love playing a norn, chose them to invoke and change into a bear or wolf but those elites are really bad and too long of recharge for pve fun mode. So to me changing a skill or a functionality like shadowstep/teleport is a skill update, but changing aftercast/cast/recharge by .3 seconds is not and that’s what most of their skill updates are changing things that don’t matter to 80% or more of the gaming population

Because the devs learned from GW that balancing was a shear nightmare. As a player you may have found it fun to find the next broken combination of traits and skills which forced a complete re-balance but the devs didn’t. That’s why GW2 has a much simpler skill and trait system to make balancing easier. And easier means tweaking not overhauling.

Simpler than GW1 ? Are you kidding ?

• GW1 was fare easier because armor had less influence on stas than it has in GW2 ;
• GW1 was far easier because there were less stats ;
• GW1 was far easier because stats effects were easier too ;
• GW2 has stats all around, traits all around, runes and sigils, with passive effects, on condition effects, more or less random effects. That’s very complex to forsee things in such a mess. GW1 didn’t have all this.

Yet, GW1 had an enchantement and hexes system that was far richer than GW2’s. And also had better lisibility, because whatever effect was on you came from a skill, and not a skill OR a rune effect OR a trait OR a sigil thing. Icons were bigger and recognizable, and not those lasting-for-a-few seconds little squares you see once in 10 minutes and can’t remember.
Of course, the amount of hexes and enchantement made things difficult to balance, organize etc. But as someone stated above, when new skills were out, or when they were balanced, it added or removed in game effects. It was not a marginal figures change, or aftercast or CD or little tweaks that made skills more or less usable in a given amount of time.

ThomasC.1056:

Behellagh.1468:

Odin the exiled.5764:

I wouldnt even call these skill updates, they’re just minor tweaks for most part, changing aftercast/recharge/casting time. Rarely do we get to see a GW1 skill update, where they actually change a useless skill into something else. Sometimes for the better sometimes not. ie glimmering mark or double dragon Players started to actually use them once they got changed and brought in with a skill update. The same thing can be done in gw2 with many of their unused utility skills and even the racial ones too. I know myself i love playing a norn, chose them to invoke and change into a bear or wolf but those elites are really bad and too long of recharge for pve fun mode. So to me changing a skill or a functionality like shadowstep/teleport is a skill update, but changing aftercast/cast/recharge by .3 seconds is not and that’s what most of their skill updates are changing things that don’t matter to 80% or more of the gaming population

Because the devs learned from GW that balancing was a shear nightmare. As a player you may have found it fun to find the next broken combination of traits and skills which forced a complete re-balance but the devs didn’t. That’s why GW2 has a much simpler skill and trait system to make balancing easier. And easier means tweaking not overhauling.

Simpler than GW1 ? Are you kidding ?

• GW1 was fare easier because armor had less influence on stas than it has in GW2 ;
• GW1 was far easier because there were less stats ;
• GW1 was far easier because stats effects were easier too ;
• GW2 has stats all around, traits all around, runes and sigils, with passive effects, on condition effects, more or less random effects. That’s very complex to forsee things in such a mess. GW1 didn’t have all this.

Yet, GW1 had an enchantement and hexes system that was far richer than GW2’s. And also had better lisibility, because whatever effect was on you came from a skill, and not a skill OR a rune effect OR a trait OR a sigil thing. Icons were bigger and recognizable, and not those lasting-for-a-few seconds little squares you see once in 10 minutes and can’t remember.
Of course, the amount of hexes and enchantement made things difficult to balance, organize etc. But as someone stated above, when new skills were out, or when they were balanced, it added or removed in game effects. It was not a marginal figures change, or aftercast or CD or little tweaks that made skills more or less usable in a given amount of time.

IMO, gw1 was not even so hard to balance, yeah, sometimes you would change skill or make it completely useless for PvP only, but it was still viable for PvE. What gw1 missed was a bigger team and better marketing.

gw2 is mess to balance, too many passive effects, runes, sigils and very strangely made damage system (I am looking at you, conditions). They for sure made it too complicated for a game which has such low amount of active skills

I’d love to see more focus on lore. I had the luck of a good guildie who told me the story behind most parts of ascalon. But it would be nice to give the lore more importance. And I don’t mean only books are plates around the world.

OP, the point of threads is for discussion. Arguments will always be present in threads that voice opinion especially negative ones. So if you’re asking for people to stop arguing what’s the point of this thread other than stating opinion? I mean what if every GW2 player posted their thoughts and said “everyone support my thread pls and agree with me” then the thread might as well be locked because there’s no room for discussion…

¯\(?)/¯

As for the topic, I can’t say for sure but I feel like GW2 is quite the opposite. Current Events for PvE, PvP updates, 5-6 egendaries a year, 5-6 new LS3 chapters a year, Fractals, Raids are all in the works.

Abelisk.4527:

OP, the point of threads is for discussion. Arguments will always be present in threads that voice opinion especially negative ones. So if you’re asking for people to stop arguing what’s the point of this thread other than stating opinion? I mean what if every GW2 player posted their thoughts and said “everyone support my thread pls and agree with me” then the thread might as well be locked because there’s no room for discussion…

¯\(?)/¯

As for the topic, I can’t say for sure but I feel like GW2 is quite the opposite. Current Events for PvE, PvP updates, 5-6 egendaries a year, 5-6 new LS3 chapters a year, Fractals, Raids are all in the works.

You miss thread completely, it’s not about how much content was released, at all. And you can count all the things that happened, it doesn’t matter, updates are happening always. The important thing here is quality of those updates, milestones of them (we can even add promised which didn’t happen) and the most important thing – feel of Guild Wars Lore and Story.
Which became only dragons and dragons, and even that story became a big question mark.

I honestly, don’t care which things are in work, not if those things should already be live, so I don’t even want comment them anymore. If you can’t see how much we are played by Anet (legendaries with HoT, raids, guild halls, etc…and then one big 0 for next few months, then information legendaries are canceled, then few months later, ooh we decided that will continue with some legendaries, etc. I can go on and on) then you are really new player.

And look dude, if I haven’t said in my thread that I don’t have strong arguments, you wouldn’t even notice it, but you take away that one small thing I’ve said and completely take it as a bullet point for your own comment.

I don’t see every thread here having arguments…would you come with me on Voice chat? Let’s go thread by thread and look which one starts with arguments! You don’t want? Hmm, I wonder why? Maybe because people actually have ideas, thoughts and want share them with their community.
This post is such a post, me having thoughts I want to share, and it’s completely okay if you have different thoughts and you voice them.

But I will not accept the posts which go against me telling me I do not have arguments or that I have negative mindset. That I don’t care at all for. Comments which do have meat, I welcome and never did I in this thread went against them

coso.9173:

I’d love to see more focus on lore. I had the luck of a good guildie who told me the story behind most parts of ascalon. But it would be nice to give the lore more importance. And I don’t mean only books are plates around the world.

Exactly this, I need more Lore. GW is rich with Lore, yet it’s not really worked on. It makes whole universe a bit bland, I can’t really have immersion I would like to have. I do not feel connected in this World for last 2 years…

So OP, we went to the Fire Islands, Ember Bay, we visited a Mursaat stronghold, we met Lazarus, we are the guardians of Glint’s egg! Hellooooo how is that not dealing with GW1 lore?

Out of the ~350 staff at ArenaNet, I’ve seen, maybe, 10 or 12 leave. Some of those were not around during Guild Wars time. So, what is that? Three percent? I’m not sure how alarming that is. I have seen many of the Devs on Guild Chat, etc., talk about how long they have been at ArenaNet, and what they contributed to Guild Wars.

Of course, none of us have exact numbers, so, as stated in the OP, it’s just bias and ‘intuition’.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Out of the ~350 staff at ArenaNet, I’ve seen, maybe, 10 or 12 leave.

This are just the big names(lead game designers, etc.), is foolish not to think that small devs(the average programmer, dba, etc.) doesn’t leave/gets fired.

Turnabout in games industry is pretty large. Employees jump around all the time.

It’s the only way to get good jobs because for most gaming companies the founders are going to sit in the top earning spots and have creative control, and those who have joined later can do all the work they want but they’ll have to wait for the higher up’s to either die or leave their positions for a chance at a promotion.

Sorta like law firms, they only have a set amount of partners and they don’t want to dilute their earning pool by adding more, so mid level employees simply jump to opportunities elsewhere to land themselves better positions instead of waiting.

This whole “I work all/most of my life in one company” is a myth. In large companies, people switch employment all the time.

You are overly alarmist. While it’s true that Anet has changed tack several times to try and make Living World a workable model, they seem to have finally hit their stride with a steady cadence of releases, and a new episode coming February. We also know that they are working on a new expac.

About your concern about people leaving; GW2 was in production for 7 years, and has run for another 4. It’s not that strange to have staff turnover in that time, for any company. Even if it seems are leaving at the same time it’s impossible to say why that iswithout insider knowledge. It’s just as likely that it is because of a sudden abundance of new opportunities and people following their friends than anything wrong at Anet.

Bias is a very poor basis for any argument. Stick to the facts.

Raikidd.5803:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Out of the ~350 staff at ArenaNet, I’ve seen, maybe, 10 or 12 leave.

This are just the big names(lead game designers, etc.), is foolish not to think that small devs(the average programmer, dba, etc.) doesn’t leave/gets fired.

No more foolish than to think of large percentage of the small Devs are still there.

Again, no one has exact numbers, so anything is just conjecture.

To see, and understand both sides is diplomatic. To focus on the negative is pessimistic. Looking for the good is optimistic. You only had negative opinions on the topic. You never said anything good about the game. Whether or not you are pessimistic doesn’t matter, only how other perceive you.

Behellagh.1468:

ThomasC.1056:

• Elite specs : a good idea, but frequency is ridiculous. Moreover, people complain about them that they caused the power creep, and the lack of diversity because they’re supposed to be mandatory in most builds. A rationale explanation is ANet wants people to buy HoT and so made vanillia average. I’m not discussing whether this is true or false, but I’m just underlining it’s not a compliment.

That is the presumption of players, especially those in PvP and WvW who had no concept how to counter the new sub professions. Plus it takes a while to balance something new Vs something that’s been around for 3 years. Pretty sure it was never ANet’s intention to supplant the core professions from PvP and WvW as it smacks of P2W.

• Desert Borderland : the whole ruckus last summer about removing it plainly from WvW speaks for itself.

The original version of the DB map were horrible in terms of travel and the periodic capture the flag mega cannon event which one shot all loser keep gates simply wasn’t enjoyable. ANet introduced the current DB map just before they were swapped out, for a while, which significantly improved the ease of travel across the map. I think the current 1 DB, 2AB maps is helping to ease WvW players into the newer DB map since the original is often pointed at as a primary cause of the drop off of WvW game play.

The thing is even novices can fairly easily point out why the elite specs are more powerful than core; this isn’t something as subtle as a lack of experience, but in many cases it is very clearly and obviously a better idea to always have an elite traited. Very few builds, none of which are particularly fight-capable, can manage well enough without them. In most cases it’s not even a numbers problem but just the way the professions were designed; there were going to be major problems and many of the new aspects of the elites are just strictly un-fun.

WvW has had a huge fallout for many reasons. DBL killed a ton of interest from mid-size (~15-20) groups due to the map traversal and difficult-to-siege keeps, and small-scale havoc died out mostly from locking +5 supply behind a several-thousand-gold paywall and making structure flips more difficult (particularly in the DBL) while providing silly bonuses which made going after structures with said small groups overly-difficult like what-once-was spammable banners, watchtower, etc., and all of these types of groups were negatively impacted by the relative lack of diversity and power creep which made most fights simply uninteresting while promoting massive-blob play.

Having a look at what employees have said about Arenanet on glass door,
https://www.glassdoor.ca/Reviews/ArenaNet-Reviews-E255820.htm?countryRedirect=true

it woulf appear that the work environment is positive, but the pay is low snd the cost of living in the region is high, which puts pressure on people to leave for positions elsewhere. That’s a bummer for everyone.

ArenaNet had been too nice to players with the gem store, allowing too many things to be obtained for free and missing out on honest, good faith earnings. As a result, the company hasn’t had as much money to pay their employees as it could have. Furthermore, they’ve been happy to do weird things like making mini pets of people and Char who fly on impossibly small kites, yet they laugh at cash cow systems that are sensible, such as mounts, housing, and fiahing (optional systems with lots of collection stuff that could easily be monetized in a respectful, tasteful maner). At the end of the day, it’s totally fine for a business to earn money and for employees to be able to afford to get married, have kids, own a house, etc. Anet needs to shake things up by adding lots of new optional content sold for real money so that they can invest the earnings into supporting the employees who are willing to stick around and put some real effort into GW2.

If WvW had been developing properly this game would be thriving. WvW was the real endgame and used to be fun and addictive.

As it is right now most of my friends either went to play another MMO or other competitive games because of how frustrating WvW has become. It seems that Anet rather focus on converting F2P players to HoT and the gem store, for better or worse.

All the new PvE areas are basically just landscapes for groups to farm. No dungeons = nothing challenging. Silverwaste was way better because of the event chain.

Xillllix.3485:

If WvW had been developing properly this game would be thriving. WvW was the real endgame and used to be fun and addictive.

As it is right now most of my friends either went to play another MMO or other competitive games because of how frustrating WvW has become. It seems that Anet rather focus on converting F2P players to HoT and the gem store, for better or worse.

All the new PvE areas are basically just landscapes for groups to farm. No dungeons = nothing challenging. Silverwaste was way better because of the event chain.

I guess you’re not counting the new Nightmare Fractal with the challenge mode.

Vayne.8563:

Xillllix.3485:

If WvW had been developing properly this game would be thriving. WvW was the real endgame and used to be fun and addictive.

As it is right now most of my friends either went to play another MMO or other competitive games because of how frustrating WvW has become. It seems that Anet rather focus on converting F2P players to HoT and the gem store, for better or worse.

All the new PvE areas are basically just landscapes for groups to farm. No dungeons = nothing challenging. Silverwaste was way better because of the event chain.

I guess you’re not counting the new Nightmare Fractal with the challenge mode.

yeah, you can’t really forget about Nightmare Fractal…they are trying something.

Just I feel they lost a bit touch with Guild Wars World, tho there can be number of reasons why is that so. Maybe they lost crucial staff members, maybe low motivation, and maybe the real reason is not enough resources and time needed for quality updates.

HoT was expansion which put them off too much if you ask me. It was an experiment which actually did succeed in some ways, it’s really interesting if we look from the point of “inovation”. But I can’t get rid of the feeling that they’ve put too much time and resources into it, while forgetting what really is important. Lore and Guild Wars feeling.

I am not the only one who feels disconnected in HoT, that’s how it is, it still has great ideas tho!

But now, I would like if they stop with experiments and put their time and resources into what really matters. Cuz now it feels like the game is all over the place, storyline is very weird.

I do see tho, that they are trying to get a bit off dragon lore, mainly cuz of Lazarus, but I am still holding my breath. I don’t want Anet to abandon this game, and by that I do not really mean stop the updates, but abandoning what this game should be, it’s lore, and the immersion we once had

Mikali.9651:

Vayne.8563:

Xillllix.3485:

If WvW had been developing properly this game would be thriving. WvW was the real endgame and used to be fun and addictive.

As it is right now most of my friends either went to play another MMO or other competitive games because of how frustrating WvW has become. It seems that Anet rather focus on converting F2P players to HoT and the gem store, for better or worse.

All the new PvE areas are basically just landscapes for groups to farm. No dungeons = nothing challenging. Silverwaste was way better because of the event chain.

I guess you’re not counting the new Nightmare Fractal with the challenge mode.

yeah, you can’t really forget about Nightmare Fractal…they are trying something.

Just I feel they lost a bit touch with Guild Wars World, tho there can be number of reasons why is that so. Maybe they lost crucial staff members, maybe low motivation, and maybe the real reason is not enough resources and time needed for quality updates.

HoT was expansion which put them off too much if you ask me. It was an experiment which actually did succeed in some ways, it’s really interesting if we look from the point of “inovation”. But I can’t get rid of the feeling that they’ve put too much time and resources into it, while forgetting what really is important. Lore and Guild Wars feeling.

I am not the only one who feels disconnected in HoT, that’s how it is, it still has great ideas tho!

But now, I would like if they stop with experiments and put their time and resources into what really matters. Cuz now it feels like the game is all over the place, storyline is very weird.

I do see tho, that they are trying to get a bit off dragon lore, mainly cuz of Lazarus, but I am still holding my breath. I don’t want Anet to abandon this game, and by that I do not really mean stop the updates, but abandoning what this game should be, it’s lore, and the immersion we once had

The thing is I think there are a lot of people who really like HoT. I mean really like it. I spent far more time in new zones than any of the core zones.

I sort of remember a similar reaction to Eye of the North the last Guild Wars 1 release. It was much harder than the core game, and people did complain about it. But that also doesn’t mean it wasn’t a good product.

The problem is, the one thing this game was really lacking was more challenging end game content. People did ask for it and some of those people are happy with the product.

Of course, not everyone asked for it, but if Anet made an expansion that didn’t build on the original game in difficulty, it wouldn’t be much of an expansion for a lot of people.

The problem is the progression. The core world is too easy over all, so HoT seems far too hard. It’s probably not and a lot of people game up on it quickly and never looked back.

It’s not nearly as daunting as most people think it is. I know this because I’ve shown so many people how to handle it, and almost all those people still play HoT.

I disagree. I’m a believer in rotation. Old staff leaving the company means new people joining the team. New people = new ideas. I think we’re in for a treat.

Mikali.9651:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Mikali.9651:

Why should I be labeled as pessimistic if I share my thoughts? My man, my man, my optimistic friend <3

If someone’s opinions are all negative when there’s positive other reasons for what they say then that person is pessimistic.

that is very black and white way to see things. and very wrong one

Okay look you’re pessimistic. Stop trying to throw everything into a whirlpool of possibilities. Probability is everything, but conclusions are made or this world would be is some serious confusion and chaos. Meaning yes you’re pessimistic.

I think a lot of these worries would be alleviated with more interaction from the staff. We live in a world of social media and constant connection. Of the hundreds of GW2 staff, we only get a few random posts here and there on reddit, info when a patch is coming and [rarely] some Q&A’s/AMA’s. If we saw more Anet staff being enthusiastic and interacting with the community over various social media, we might have a more positive view of the game’s direction. Just my feelings

The main thing that makes me think Anet wouldn’t abandon Guild Wars is they don’t have any other options.

Arenanet has only ever made 2 games – Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2. If they abandon GW2 they have to either shut the company down (which isn’t actually a quick or simple process and could ruin the careers of the people at the top) or start over from scratch with a brand new IP, no brand recognition and a lot of bad feeling from former-players.

Also the fact that they have only ever made Guild Wars games (and only GW2 in the past 10 years) makes me think people working there now are more likely to care about the franchise. Every single person there knew when they applied for their job that they would be working on Guild Wars 1/2. Ok sure maybe it was just the job they could get at the time and their long-term plan is to move on to something else, but if they really didn’t care or somehow hated the game and wanted it to fail they wouldn’t have applied.

DeceiverX.8361:

Behellagh.1468:

• Desert Borderland : the whole ruckus last summer about removing it plainly from WvW speaks for itself.

The original version of the DB map were horrible in terms of travel and the periodic capture the flag mega cannon event which one shot all loser keep gates simply wasn’t enjoyable. ANet introduced the current DB map just before they were swapped out, for a while, which significantly improved the ease of travel across the map. I think the current 1 DB, 2AB maps is helping to ease WvW players into the newer DB map since the original is often pointed at as a primary cause of the drop off of WvW game play.

WvW has had a huge fallout for many reasons. DBL killed a ton of interest from mid-size (~15-20) groups due to the map traversal and difficult-to-siege keeps, and small-scale havoc died out mostly from locking +5 supply behind a several-thousand-gold paywall and making structure flips more difficult (particularly in the DBL) while providing silly bonuses which made going after structures with said small groups overly-difficult like what-once-was spammable banners, watchtower, etc., and all of these types of groups were negatively impacted by the relative lack of diversity and power creep which made most fights simply uninteresting while promoting massive-blob play.

If we’re identifying the problems of WvW over the years, here goes;

1. Let’s be clear that everything seems relatively insignificant in comparison to the giant looming shadow of server transfers/server stacking,
2. Having said that, multiple “fixes” have made WvW less fun;
   1. Fixing the Banner-rez of completely dead keep lords made the game favour dominant sides even more than it already did,
   2. Fixing waypoints so that there was no waypoint moment between ticks also made it less dramatic and favoured already dominant sides (again),
3. Initially, DBL was perceived as horrible by many players when they first appeared, with unforgiving cliffs, long walks back and horrible garrison that’s easier to attack than to defend – while these problems persist, it’s more fun to defend the side keeps than alpine and with further modification (e.g. simply flattening of the middle area for zerg-v-zergers) could be even better,
4. The guild upgrade system is great (really great!) but needs tweaks (flax fibres are v. expensive) to make it more viable – too often camps are not upgraded because of the cost,
5. Orange dots are an interesting addition that gets big group-vs-big group combat to happen more often, but it’s not fun to see where enemy mesmers are hiding when we capture a keep because it makes the game too easy – when you take away all the tasks, the computer may as well be playing against itself,
6. Crap metas have spoiled WvW. This began with the change to Stability and the Pirate Ship meta and continues today with condition spamming and the ubiquity of Crowd Control.