Guild Wars 2

well, it doesnt take sherlock holmes to see that the population has greatly decreased in the last few weeks.

to say otherwise is not being objective or just being oblivious to your surroundings.

even lions arch can only maintain overflow during peak hours. there isnt an overflow in any other zone at any point of the day. WvW never has a wait to get in except for a few hours when a new pairing begins. sPvP is a ghost town. Even during peak hours, the majority of games i hot join are 1 v1….

Only reason it took so long is people hanging around waiting on a reversal of the new tier of gear. Not gonna happen. GW2 just another run of the mill MMO now.

Malvagite.3254:

well, it doesnt take sherlock holmes to see that the population has greatly decreased in the last few weeks.

to say otherwise is not being objective or just being oblivious to your surroundings.

even lions arch can only maintain overflow during peak hours. there isnt an overflow in any other zone at any point of the day. WvW never has a wait to get in except for a few hours when a new pairing begins. sPvP is a ghost town. Even during peak hours, the majority of games i hot join are 1 v1….

Sure but ascend gear is THE reason? In my guild I see that number of people stop playing because they are bored and they have other games, that are actually more grindy, to go back to. Having goal-less pvp, empty pve and a finished story are more likely the reasons why people quit, imo.

Malvagite.3254:

well, it doesnt take sherlock holmes to see that the population has greatly decreased in the last few weeks.

to say otherwise is not being objective or just being oblivious to your surroundings.

even lions arch can only maintain overflow during peak hours. there isnt an overflow in any other zone at any point of the day. WvW never has a wait to get in except for a few hours when a new pairing begins. sPvP is a ghost town. Even during peak hours, the majority of games i hot join are 1 v1….

There are too many reasons as to why someone might stop playing a potentially very time-consuming video game than the addition of any form of vertical progression. Correlation does not mean causation. The X-Fire data that people like to refer to only shows that there is a continual decrease in player hours over the past month, and that could be down to all sorts of things.

Did Ascended gear/Lost Shores contribute to this decline? Maybe. But we don’t know that without taking an adequate, unbiased sample of the entire player population. And the forums may provide a sample of the playerbase, but it is not unbiased.

ekimsfree.9406:

How do you quit something you’re not obligated to play?
No contract, no sub. Play, don’t play, it’s not a big deal. Drama Queens.

Soo true.

Baron of Winters.5697:

People can be dismissive towards our concerns. But my decision to keep playing on occasion but never again visit the gem store will cost Anet a fair amount. I’m a 39 year old professional with not a lot of time, but plenty of disposable inome to spend on a hobby. With a static goal, I knew I would get there eventually, and I would spend money to get there a little faster. But with a diminishing return and a goal that recedes towards the horizon faster than I can progress, I won’t spend my real world currency on Anet anymore.

Thanks for the game, Anet – but the way you’ve set up the grind, I’ll log in once every couple of weeks, contribute very little to the in-game community, and you won’t see cash from me again.

Want to change that? Want to get players like me playing and paying you money again? Here’s what you do:

Accept that Ascended gear was a dumb move. But now that its out there, I understand that you have to keep it. Cap all infusions at the current level, and formally promise to never again increase infusion tiers (as well as gear tiers). Set the current bar (which you just raised) as the new and PERMANENT maximum. With those assurrances, I’ll start buying gems and playing again.

Otherwise, you’ve lost revenue from me. I’ll vote with my wallet.

I’m in EXACTLY the same boat, and already DID spend IRL money on gems to convert to gold so that I could purchase the exotic items for trinket slots. I only did this because I was lead to believe that I would NEVER have to upgrade those items again. I will never be deceived again into making a gem purchase with this company, as I have already spent my money under false pretenses.

It isn’t worth my time or effort to attempt to recoup these costs, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that this company has lost my trust.

I’m hanging around to see what I’ll have to do to obtain ascended items through alternative means. If it is too ridiculous of a grind that will be the final straw for me.

Listen up devs, you are bleeding customers, and many of us that have been playing mmos since the 90s are serious when we say that we will never play another treadmill.

Its your game. Do what you want with it, but as customers we also have the choice to spend our money elsewhere, and many of us have already made that decision.

I try and re-assess every game I play on a regular basis. Am I enjoying it? Is it worthwhile? that sort of thing.
I haven’t played much since the loot nerf. I log on twice a week to run dungeons with my guild. Farming is pointless so I just cut it out of my playtime and used that time to do other things like spend time with the family.

I will be back for Wintersday because I know I will enjoy it.

What I’m trying to say is that it is a no sub game that you own so there is no need to be all or nothing. Take the bits you enjoy and leave the stuff you don’t alone.

I’ve moaned pretty consistantly about the loot nerf in the relevant thread but I’m not going to let it ruin my day. If they fix it then great, if they don’t, well it’s not a huge thing in my life, it’s a game.

Distaste.4801:

roguenub.1409:

If ascended gear was in the game on release, and the same means to get it , would you still have bought the game?

Why does everyone automatically assume people with ascended gear will just dominate you in WvW? You will get rolled on with all greens or all exotics / ascended either way, It’s mainly the numbers that count. If you don’t bother to play because the enemy slightly outgears you, then thats just dumb imo. "Ohhh I played hundreds of hours to get my full exotic gear, but now I can’t win because someone has more time to get slightly better stats than me =(((( ".

Getting ascended is a grind eh? It’s no less of a grind than getting your exotics.

It almost looks like people are just finding any reason to quit, and not willing to admit they got their money’s worth of the game. Same with this game and every other MMO game you’ve played, you get everything and you’ll have nothing left to do. You’ll get bored, and find something else to do.

If we had known about ascended gear and the grind to get it, I would not have bought GW2. It was sold to me as easy to get max stat gear with hard to obtain skins. I sold my friends on it specifically by telling them it wasn’t a WoW gear grind.

It does matter in WvW. Sure if you’re attacking 1v40 you’re going to get rolled, but quite often you will face even numbers. If 5v5, 20v20, 40v40, etc happens ascended gives an advantage. It is common sense that you want to give your opponents as little advantage as possible, thus you need to get ascended gear for that to be the case. There is a noticeable difference between rares and exotics so saying there isn’t much of a difference between exotics and ascended is a flat out lie. As for giving up because enemies have ascended, they are well within their rights. GW2 wasn’t supposed to have a gear grind for max stats and that helped promote WvW. Why continue to WvW when ArenaNet is going to continue to introduce new gear that upsets the balance of WvW. People already died way too fast in WvW and more stats means it will happen faster.

Getting ascended is no less of a grind than exotics, IT IS MORE OF A GRIND. I’m between hardcore and casual in my play and even I will admit that getting fully geared in exotics was probably too much of a grind for most casuals. Now you have ascended pieces that are harder to get than almost a full exotic set.

It is not an excuse to quit, it’s a reason. At worst, ArenaNet lied to people by going against their own philosophies on easy to obtain max stats with skin progression as well as grinding. At best, ArenaNet look incompetent not only for contradictory statements from before release to the IAMA, but for pushing out game mechanics that completely segregate and promote segregation the community. Either way people feel betrayed, like they are being looked down upon, and like they were lied too. If that’s not a valid reason to quit then what is?

I’ve currently quit for a myriad of reasons. Their poor handling of stat and class balance is a major factor. The lack of WvW development and support certainly pushed me as well. But the final straw that broke the camels back was ascended gear. It just flat out goes against what the developers said this game was about. I mean blatant contradictions from things they said earlier and after this whole thing broke are just staggering. “we don’t want grind” yet 250 ecto’s is clearly not a gigantic grind <_<. It just makes me feel like there is zero point in playing since the developers have absolutely no clue what direction they are heading in and anything that comes out of their mouths cannot be trusted.

Another fantastic post that perfectly reflects what so many of us in the WvW community are feeling.

Kandrick.8054:

there is no need to be all or nothing.

Of course there is. Not for all people upset with the change, but for those looking at it from a more objective standpoint. Players are part of the world of Guild Wars 2, and if they refuse to play for whatever reason, they are effectively decreasing the amount of fun people that are playing have. Simply playing GW2 supports the dev, and if some people don’t want to support them anymore, even a little, they stop playing. This is just a generalization to illustrate my point. Maybe the majority of GW2 players are happy with 1 crowded lobby and one dungeon, who knows at this point.

Players that planned to invest a lot of time into the game to eventually reach their goals have a reason to stop playing, because they can’t be sure anymore, how many times their goal will be moved further away.

If you had a favorite burger joint that made the best burger you have ever eaten, but you hated that 1 or more toppings they put between those buns and refuse to take special orders, would you keep going to that burger joint, pick apart the burger, throw out that disgusting topping, and enjoy the rest, or stop going there? Some people would put up with it, some don’t.

replicant.3620:

I’ve found the best way I can play Guild Wars 2 currently and not quit is to simply pretend that Ascended Gear and Fractals do not exist.

… This is what I have been doing and it has caused me to become very happy with this game lately.

Sadly, I can only do this for so long. Once I get my equipment to pretty looking dungeon exotics, my story finished, and map completion…

After I reach that point it is just sPvP and Fractal Dungeons for me, I guess. I don’t enjoy WvW as much as I do sPvP, so I rarely participate in WvW.

It’s interesting to see how differently two people react to the statement by ekimsfree.9406:

ThePainTrain.8190:

ekimsfree.9406:

How do you quit something you’re not obligated to play?
No contract, no sub. Play, don’t play, it’s not a big deal. Drama Queens.

Soo true.

and

Hellkaiser.6025:

ekimsfree.9406:

How do you quit something you’re not obligated to play?
No contract, no sub. Play, don’t play, it’s not a big deal. Drama Queens.

The same way you can comment on a thread and add NOTHING to the discussion save for stating a moot point that’s as obvious as day. Because they’re entitled to their opinions, only most have the common decency to in fact offer said opinions in respectful manners. Same cannot be said for you, also by posting in such a rude manner into a perfectly rational discussion and as stated add nothing to it, you in fact prove that you are posting for the sole purpose of being dramatic.
You’re projecting the drama queen issue, because you’re guilty of it yourself clearly.

I wanted to quote both responses because, just as ThePainTrain expressed his agreement with ekimsfree, I wanted to express my agreement with the response made by Hellkaiser.

I believe the term “drama queens” was intended as an insult, and I believe that insults are not necessary in the forums. I enjoyed reading hellkaiser’s response (which is part of a longer post he makes earlier in this thread) but the other posts reminded me of other MMOs forums.

People on both sides of the issue are emotional. I enjoy reading the debate, I’d like to see it without insults.

ThePainTrain.8190:

ekimsfree.9406:

How do you quit something you’re not obligated to play?
No contract, no sub. Play, don’t play, it’s not a big deal. Drama Queens.

Soo true.

How can you quit cycling after you have bought the bike? You are not obligated, there is no subscription cost for the bike, therefore you cannot possible quit cycling, even if you never put foot to pedal ever again.

Honestly, basic logic guys, BASIC logic.

If a person stops playing, they are quitting the game. This effects how much money that person then spends on A-net, gem store/expansions/merchandise. If you think quitting it impossible with a product that doesn’t directly cost anything per time spent, try actually using your brain.

Oreoz.2573:

If you dont want to play than dont play.

If ascended was as big an issue as you lot THINK its going to be, then wed see a much bigger outcry similar to what we saw prior to the lost shores.

But the first pieces have come out and its just a couple threads here and there that funnily enough, don’t actually bring up substantial topics or bugs but instead cry DOOOOM!

Yeah. This really isnt an issue for most of us.

Soooooo tata.

Say hello to this mega thread.

dont forget windersday is coming so more free content. Then there are MASSIVE content updates coming jan and feb. There is loads to look forward to. My only gripes with the game is the insane t6 farm (aka forced to buy gems) and the DE bugs. But if I am being totally objective about things. I dont know any AAA MMO thats in this good a shape this short a period after release.

WoW was in worse shape and I stuck with that for 7 years. Maybe people need to look at things as glass half full instead of half empty all the time.

Lutharr.1035:

dont forget windersday is coming so more free content. Then there are MASSIVE content updates coming jan and feb. There is loads to look forward to..

Building a house on sand will be easier to build but will fall over, building a house on rock will last much much longer.

Seriously more content where:
1) The game is a buggy mess, key gameplay features just plain don’t work, old AND new content alike
2) Content is built on the principles of vertical progression, and extra numbers being used as an incentive to play said content – rather than the content itself being enjoyable enough without extra numbers to play in.

Mean there is nothing for a lot of us to look foward to when “new content” is announced.

Quaz.4931:

Lutharr.1035:

dont forget windersday is coming so more free content. Then there are MASSIVE content updates coming jan and feb. There is loads to look forward to..

Building a house on sand will be easier to build but will fall over, building a house on rock will last much much longer.

Seriously more content where:
1) The game is a buggy mess, key gameplay features just plain don’t work, old AND new content alike
2) Content is built on the principles of vertical progression, and extra numbers being used as an incentive to play said content – rather than the content itself being enjoyable enough without extra numbers to play in.

Mean there is nothing for a lot of us to look foward to when “new content” is announced.

Well the first 10 levels of fotm u can do in greens so the whole vertical progression thing aint that relevant, you will see all the new levels and get to “enjoy” the game. If you want to progress further then thats a your choice. If you want to progress further to say lvl 20 all you need is 2 rings that drop from the daily (which I will concede need to be less RNG to get).

The house buillt on sand tbh is quite a silly way to put it. The game is solid enough otherwise a few million people wouldnt still be playing (even with the endless "Im quitting threads [which tend to be the same people over and over again]). If you dont like it fine, thats your choice, but alot more people are enjoying it than are not. So if thats the case maybe you need to start thinking about trying a different game or play GW2 with eyes open rather than trying to hate everything for the pure sake of it.

Quaz.4931:

If a person stops playing, they are quitting the game. This effects how much money that person then spends on A-net, gem store/expansions/merchandise. If you think quitting it impossible with a product that doesn’t directly cost anything per time spent, try actually using your brain.

I do agree that quitting is quitting. But since to play to begin with ya already invested a chunk of paper to Anet they wont be losing much sleep. The gem store must be in a healthy state otherwise they would push it more. So people are spending, and life goes on in GW2.

I used to be like you Lutharrr, I had patience (I have a lot of patience in general). I thought I knew where the game was heading and was happy to let it get there in it’s own sweet time. I never complained in the first few weeks that the black lion trader was down, I could deal with the guild interface problems, even the odd DE freeze.

But then everything changed, when the vertical progression got implemented. The whole premise of the game in which I defended for being buggy was destroyed. The way it was communicated, the way we were left to try and peice together our own interpretation of a vague blog post, then get another blog post that said nothing apart from “its not a gear treadmill honest” then get an AMA saying “we never SPECIFICALLY said there wouldnt be vertical progression”.

Arenanet were gods, a true example to the gaming industry, until the lost shores patch. They lost so much respect from me, so now they don’t get my “benefit of the doubt”, they lost my confidence and I feel betrayed.

I play the game as a shadow of its former self, just playing a couple nights a week for 2 hours each go, for social reasons. Let me put that straight – guild wars 2 is a convenient way for me to achieve something that has nothing to do with how well the game is designed.

The only thing that still holds any magic from me is the art and some of the nicer maps in the game, that has nothing to do with game mechanics.

The only thing that is certain about GW2 in the future, is more infusion tiers being rolled out INCREMENTALLY over the course of a year. <- a gear treadmill.

I quit playing GW2 because of the post-release-introduced vertical gear treadmill and the reaffirmed vertical progression on reddit by Chris. I’m playing another MMO now. I do not have enough time to play two MMOs. And I do not want to have time to play a game, whose developer lied to the customers. Some years ago I might have given a kitten about such issue and still kept playing an otherwise good game, but the older I get the more I feel kind of bound in honor not to accept such behavior anymore, especially when shown by “holy devs”. It’s sad for my guild, but to my mind being against vertical progression and not quitting would be bigot. Everybody has to make her/his own decision about how to react proper as a player and member of the mmo-community to this and my conclusions drawn from it was to quit.

The thing is Quaz i do understand peoples worries about a gear treadmill. Now to me those treadmills can be good if done correctly. If it turns into the only people that can have good gear are those willing to treat the game like a second job then the games failed. If its a small upgrade and harder to get than say exo but not insanely so then Im fine with it.

The thing is that I like many others are giving them the benifit of the doubt because we feel exotics were so easy to obtain that they inital plan was to have acended gear as the final tier but it didnt make it in due to other factors.

I dont agree with the agony mechanic and acended gear. But thats a different discussion i think.

My god!

Before people said: this game has no endgame.

The Anet tries to give us a balanced endgame .

Acendend gear is only a seasoning! It will not give you a big advantage over the exotic !

If you do not have a few minutes to play, please… quit the game! ( go to counter strike ) . Don’t try to play a MMORPG.

GW2 has a vertical progression smooth and easy to do (casual)! WoW is for people with no life!

If you want no vertical progression, do not try to play a MMORPG! ( go to CS, Lifet4 Dead, street fighters, Mario Bros )

Forgive me for the bad english!

Not playing yes.

I feel that even though Anet is trying to downplay the scope of changes to their design philosophy, the feeling that they said one thing and are doing something different sticks in a lot of people’s minds as a breach of trust. Even if they did not explicitly say that they would never introduce gated content, tiered gear progression or level hikes, many people had just that perception due to years of marketing hype surrounding the game. Unfortunately, I think that for many it is hard to say “oh well if it’s just a little bit of those things, then I don’t feel lied to.” Those things are still there now and are not going away.

The perception of total 180 degree change felt by some players and the new content negating previous in game goals leads to a degree of uncertainty which can result in a stagnating lack of motivation. Honestly, I think they would have done better for themselves going all gear progression, adding all ascended items and fully adopting the WoW clone stance. Of course, I still would not play, but there are obviously those who would. Half-measures and the creation of a world without a clear sense of goals or direction will only further alienate people.

One thing I don’t get is why not introduce less controversial grinds like reputation, epic quest chains, player character titles, timed dungeon leaderboards, or server firsts before jumping to gear progression?

This game is not GW1!
Gw1 really was not very good!
WoW is a clone of everquest!
GW2 is a great game with a nice progression gear!

Duncan.7294:

One thing I don’t get is why not introduce less controversial grinds like reputation, epic quest chains, player character titles, timed dungeon leaderboards, or server firsts before jumping to gear progression?

All of that is not perceived by your standard MMO player as progression. The complain of “there’s nothing to do” can only be resolved by necessary item progression, because those players need the feeling of necessity to stay motivated. Horizontal progression can’t give them this motivation.

ASB.4295:

Duncan.7294:

One thing I don’t get is why not introduce less controversial grinds like reputation, epic quest chains, player character titles, timed dungeon leaderboards, or server firsts before jumping to gear progression?

All of that is not perceived by your standard MMO player as progression. The complain of “there’s nothing to do” can only be resolved by necessary item progression, because those players need the feeling of necessity to stay motivated. Horizontal progression can’t give them this motivation.

I don’t know if I agree with you, but I do know that we will never truly know the answer to that.

During the mega-thread, many of the staunch supporters of “endgame content” ended up admitting that the stats on the gear really weren’t important to them.

I wish ANet would have had the courage to attempt what they claimed they were going to attempt – revolution of the MMORPG genre.

Instead, they became afraid while looking at flawed metrics, and made very bad decisions that can not be undone. They never even tried horizontal progression.

And nobody will ever try it again, after this. ANet has single-handedly pigeonholed the entire genre into making WoW clones forever.

Tiger.7506:

My god!

Before people said: this game has no endgame.

The Anet tries to give us a balanced endgame .

Acendend gear is only a seasoning! It will not give you a big advantage over the exotic !

If you do not have a few minutes to play, please… quit the game! ( go to counter strike ) . Don’t try to play a MMORPG.

GW2 has a vertical progression smooth and easy to do (casual)! WoW is for people with no life!

If you want no vertical progression, do not try to play a MMORPG! ( go to CS, Lifet4 Dead, street fighters, Mario Bros )

Forgive me for the bad english!

The games endgame was obtaining cool looking exotic skins, WvW, and grinding for a legendary(if you wanted it). What they needed to do was expand on that, more skins, more events, more zones, more dungeons, more WvW mechanics/maps, new weapons(polearm!)etc.

ANet did not give us a balanced endgame and not even close. How are pieces of gear you need to grind 50-100 hours to obtain balanced? A more balanced way would have been making ascended obtainable multiple ways and not making it prohibitively grindy.

Ascended gear does give a big advantage over an exotic, unless you don’t count 10%-20% more stats per item as an advantage.

As for telling people to quit and not play MMORPG’s, I don’t think you’re qualified to say that. Most people bought this game specifically because it WAS a mmorpg where there wasn’t vertical endgame gear progression. There are plenty of MMO’s in the history that don’t have major vertical progression either so I don’t think you have any clue about what MMORPG mechanics are out there. Just off the top of my head there was SWG where the best armor in the game was easily attainable and had to be replaced constantly as it had permanent durability loss.

The poison of the MMORPG market is that developers can’t think outside the WoW box. It makes me incredibly sad since the game mechanics prior to WoW were really diverse. I was hoping GW2 was going to show more developers that endgame doesn’t have to be a gear treadmill but I guess that idea is out the window.

I think some people are doing the math wrong. A 0.5% increase in equipment stats across all equipment is still only a 0.5% increase in stats. Multiplication is distributive…

Even if you had 40 people in Exotics vs 40 people in Ascended, the power difference is still 0.5%.

Sky.9347:

I don’t know if I agree with you, but I do know that we will never truly know the answer to that.

During the mega-thread, many of the staunch supporters of “endgame content” ended up admitting that the stats on the gear really weren’t important to them.

That is because most players themselves don’t realize what they really want, the underlying desire behind the mechanics we enjoy in games. Those player archetypes that pulled back after Ascended gear was implemented, may not want the stat progression present in basically all MMOs, nor do they necessarily want to be forced into acquiring more and more powerful gear. I listed this archetype because those are the most obvious supporters of vertical progression. There’s another type of basic motivation that wants the to feel they are making meaningful progress, and that there’s always something for them to do to improve their character. On the surface, titles don’t feel like an improvement, a new gear tier or infusion however do.

Finding out what people really want is one of the reasons I’m still visiting the forums. It’s interesting to read peoples posts on what they like about certain mechanics, what the desire, and what the underlying reasons for those desires could be.

problem is; a lot of gamers (mmos especially) are really young, or angry people.

its an immature gaming genre i think.

MrSilver.5269:

Baron of Winters.5697:

…with a diminishing return and a goal that recedes towards the horizon faster than I can progress, I won’t spend my real world currency on Anet anymore…

…already DID spend IRL money on gems to convert to gold so that I could purchase the exotic items for trinket slots. I only did this because I was lead to believe that I would NEVER have to upgrade those items again. I will never be deceived again into making a gem purchase with this company, as I have already spent my money under false pretenses…
…as customers we also have the choice to spend our money elsewhere…

This bears repetition. I think they’ll notice when they see the bottom line change. They’re relying heavily on the gem store for revenue, and I imagine that players like you and I are fairly commonplace.

Ahlen.7591:

As someone who loves both horizontal and vertical progression: Yay.

Seriously, some of us like having something to strive for in games.

Yay, numbers get bigger! So satisfying, such an amazing sense of progression.

By the way, ProgressQuest and WoW exist. If you play MMOs to “see the numbars get biggar”, you can always play them, since they cater exclusively to that mentality.

ChairGraveyard.2967:

Ahlen.7591:

As someone who loves both horizontal and vertical progression: Yay.

Seriously, some of us like having something to strive for in games.

Yay, numbers get bigger! So satisfying, such an amazing sense of progression.

By the way, ProgressQuest and WoW exist. If you play MMOs too “see the numbars get biggar”, you can always play them, since they cater exclusively to that mentality.

Aint nobody gots time for that >:T

Katai.6240:

I think some people are doing the math wrong. A 0.5% increase in equipment stats across all equipment is still only a 0.5% increase in stats. Multiplication is distributive…

Even if you had 40 people in Exotics vs 40 people in Ascended, the power difference is still 0.5%.

People using the 0.5% figure are referring to the impact of a single item on your overall stats.

The difference, for example, between an Exotic Berserker ring and the Ascended Red Ring of Death is 13% more power and 9% more precision. That is before adding an infusion.

So once we get to the point of having a full tier for all slots, you’re looking at somewhere in the 6-8% range (again, not counting the infusion, which they have stated will have a continuing progression itself). This is, despite what many claim, not ‘insignificant’. If you don’t think so, just ask yourself if you would look at a 6-8% pay cut as ‘insignificant’ or if that would basically make the difference between you getting all of your bills and basic life necessities paid with a little extra for entertainment vs. starting to get late bill warnings, your bank/landlord starting to talk about foreclosure/eviction, eating ramen noodles every night and having nothing left over for leisure.

Think about every fight you’ve had in WvW where you hung on by your finger-nails to pull out a win. Those would all be losses with a 6-8% change in balance. I quite expect a number of people will parade through claiming they are so boss at PvP that they always stomp their enemies into the dirt and never have a close call like that, but in the real world, this will effect a number of fights on a regular basis.

I believe ascended gear was something that was required to exist since launch, like they said.
However, they just realize it later.

The problem isnt the existance of a better item that shouldnt be acessible to few.
The problem is that, in order to require it, you need to grind mindlessly over and over again.

That “mindlessly” part is the problem.

What I’d do to fix it would be to have an easy mode where everyone can go and get those relicis. This way, slowly, but surely, they could grind their way to ascended.

I’d add a medium mode where those fractals would be escalted to somewhere what we know as lvl 10, with agony, and, at the end of all 9 fractals, you’d be surely rewarded with an ascended backpiece.

And another hard more, wich could reward a ring, but it could be siminlar to fractal 30.

There, so people that can’t be competent enough to get into harder levels would have the option to grind.
People that are good could focus on w/e difficulty level they want and work their way to get it.

Now, as the problem of population being concentraded in one spot, they said they gonna fix it in the next 3 content patches. They recognized it was a mistake and it wont happen again.

Well I wasn’t happy about ascended Items but this Karka ordeal finally broke the camels back.

I could just about live with vertical progression if it was done right, I wasn’t hopeful that Anet could do it but i was willing to give them a chance. But now it turns out that if you live in certain parts of the world you will just get free 20 slot boxes and exotics thrown at you. There is a word for that but I am probably not allowed to say it. The whole thing has left me disgusted with the company and I have been playing Guild Wars since 2006.

Lutharr.1035:

Now to me those treadmills can be good if done correctly.

It does not matter. It does not matter if it “can be done correctly”, or if it’s much worse in other games. Many people bought this game on the premise and promise that it would be a breath of fresh air by not having the bloody hamster wheel unless you choose to go for rare skins. So much for that.

Now add this broken promise to all the other problems that the game has. It’s only natural that some people are fed up with it all and see this as a last straw.

Kerri Knight.3168:

Katai.6240:

I think some people are doing the math wrong. A 0.5% increase in equipment stats across all equipment is still only a 0.5% increase in stats. Multiplication is distributive…

Even if you had 40 people in Exotics vs 40 people in Ascended, the power difference is still 0.5%.

People using the 0.5% figure are referring to the impact of a single item on your overall stats.

The difference, for example, between an Exotic Berserker ring and the Ascended Red Ring of Death is 13% more power and 9% more precision. That is before adding an infusion.

So once we get to the point of having a full tier for all slots, you’re looking at somewhere in the 6-8% range (again, not counting the infusion, which they have stated will have a continuing progression itself). This is, despite what many claim, not ‘insignificant’…

Exactly, you said it much better than I could have. People who think the change is insignificant are either making a logic or mathematic error, or they’re willfully pushing a false premise to advance the VP agenda.

Avatar.1923:

problem is; a lot of gamers (mmos especially) are really young, or angry people.

its an immature gaming genre i think.

Yep. And that’s the reason for devs to allow themselves to behave like they want.

Dev: I promise you A.
Community: Great. We’ll buy it.

[some weeks and a few patches later …]

Community: WTF about A???
Dev: Uhm, I never ment A when I said A, because there’s a difference between meaning and saying, u know?! In fact, I promised a.
Young Gamer: Never mind. a is ok. It’s not A but fortunately it’s not B.
Dev: b.
YG: yes, yes, yes. never mind. stop about it. I’ll keep playing.

[some weeks and a few patches later …]

YG: hey dev, I know you promised us a, but this feels like B.
Dev: No, no, no, no, no. You’re totally wrong. Maybe it feels like B but it’s more like a with a slight flavour of b. But allover it’s a.
YG: Ah, thanks for the explanation. well, “allover” is more than 50% i guess? I’ll keep playin’.

[some weeks and a few patches later …]

YG: hey dev, this could never be a, this is obviously B now.
Dev: No, no, no, no, no. You’re totally wrong. Because it’s c. Better than a and b together. I promise.
YG: Wow! You’re so great. tbh, I never thought about c till now. You’re fantastic. I’ll keep playin’.

To be continued.

Or not.

Valentine.6529:

Aint nobody gots time for that >:T

10-11 Mil people not only have the time but the cash for it…… Anyways 13%+ stat increase? In wow 2200 gear is only 5% stat increase and it is a very very significant difference.

Those of us who hate fractals are now nearly a month behind the dungeon grinders to get the best gear

scabies.3246:

replicant.3620:

I’ve found the best way I can play Guild Wars 2 currently and not quit is to simply pretend that Ascended Gear and Fractals do not exist.

… This is what I have been doing and it has caused me to become very happy with this game lately.

Sadly, I can only do this for so long. Once I get my equipment to pretty looking dungeon exotics, my story finished, and map completion…

After I reach that point it is just sPvP and Fractal Dungeons for me, I guess. I don’t enjoy WvW as much as I do sPvP, so I rarely participate in WvW.

We are already seeing the effects of roaming ascended gear groups in wvwvw. It won’t be long until it’s mandatory to get this.

Katai.6240:

I think some people are doing the math wrong. A 0.5% increase in equipment stats across all equipment is still only a 0.5% increase in stats. Multiplication is distributive…

Even if you had 40 people in Exotics vs 40 people in Ascended, the power difference is still 0.5%.

item to item it’s more like a 20%+ improvement. the math you reference includes base stats in the denominator.

I personally like some gear progression, i dont mind it at all.

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

I admit I’ve taken it too personal, but this is just how I feel about the game at the moment. I want horizontal progression and expanded content, not new stats and gear treadmills. Besides arguing about new gear and such, has anyone actually permanently or temporarily quit the game due to the introduction of Ascended Gear? Whoever has temporarily put the game to rest, how will the next big update change your mind? Are we over-reacting and taking it too personal?

No.

Everyone I played with dropped the game like it was hot the moment they realised the patch included a lengthy grind to obtain a new item tier.

Some people like it, some don’t, if you don’t enjoy the game put it away, you are far from the only one.

Taking it personally is a bet extreme, but being annoyed that what was advertised and what was received was sketchy at best is understandable.

I’ve only played maybe 2hrs in the last 2 weeks. At this point I think I’m just going to log on for holiday events.

Ascended gear is the main reason though I’m not opposed to vertical progression; it’s how it was implemented and the effect it’s had on the economy that has sapped my will to play.

I have 5 level 80s in exotics. I like to play them all and I like PvE. Fractals have forced the need to focus on one character because progress is not shared and there’s no way I could try to meet the agony requirements on multiple characters.

Why? Cost. Back pieces are prohibitively expensive since they need an absurd amount of materials which they’ve subsequently caused to skyrocket in price. I was struggling to keep up with the economy with the time I have to play before fractals were introduced. When I finally found a decent time/reward source of income for me it tanked within a week.

Progression that’s a mixture of pure RNG and how much gold I can farm has killed my interest. If it was just the back slot maybe I could do it but I had other expensive goals I was working towards as well. A legendary + t3 cultural on one of my characters among them.

Ascended gear was quite simply a brilliant idea. it gives something to work towards for ppl that were growing bored or like the challenge of the tiered levels without giving an extreme advantage against player geared all in exotics.

the fractals are fun for a casual player as well, but are by no means necessary.

all in all, ascended has a much greater positive influence than negative. very happy that they added it, and it as in a free update at that.

azmodeus.3409:

Ascended gear was quite simply a brilliant idea. it gives something to work towards for ppl that were growing bored or like the challenge of the tiered levels without giving an extreme advantage against player geared all in exotics.

the fractals are fun for a casual player as well, but are by no means necessary.

all in all, ascended has a much greater positive influence than negative. very happy that they added it, and it as in a free update at that.

Simply: NO
The people who grew bored were the people that grinded the fractals for a week, got their ascended equipment and then started again to grew bored.
Vertical progression makes the game longer to people that can’t already play much (and people that can’t play much does not desire vertical progression).

By the way: why everyone seem to think that horizontal progression==new armor skins?
There are many things to add as horizontal, where vertical is just another tier of rarity.
-New quests (real instanced quests like the “personal” story, that can actually show you a side-story)
-New games (only keg brawl now), maybe with some prizes.
-New dungeons (not just kill-kill-kill dungeons, I’mtalking about new mechanics and new stories)

They could have made the way to get the new ascended gear a little funnnier to get. Just the fact that you have to play the fractals at least 10 hours before actually having a chanche to get a ring is pretty boring. And from there is all RNG.

and every time someone feels like quitting has to make a topic on forums. because they want to quit and everyone should know about it. because he is an important part of the game and it will not be the same without him. or he’s not totally sure if he wants to quit and wants other people to try to convince him not to quit. or..
i could go on for ages why people do something like that. if you are displeased with the game, stop playing it. don’t tell everyone you’re gonna quit because anet introduced a new type of gear. “but.. but.. they said they wouldn’t do that..” well it’s their game and they can do whatever the hell they want. for me personally is good that they gave us ascended. that way there’s always someone better than you. you have something to look forward to. work for the gear you want. not just hit 80, buy exotics, some fancy weapons, and trinkets and go among equals. you want to quit real life too just because you saw a guy that was bigger, stronger, prettier than you? ofc not..

anyone reading this that’s about to quit: DON’T POST A TOPIC ABOUT IT AND JUST GO! WE DON’T NEED ANY MORE NEGATIVITY AROUND HERE ANYWAYS…

MaideN.3284:

and every time someone feels like quitting has to make a topic on forums. because they want to quit and everyone should know about it. because he is an important part of the game and it will not be the same without him. or he’s not totally sure if he wants to quit and wants other people to try to convince him not to quit. or..
i could go on for ages why people do something like that. if you are displeased with the game, stop playing it. don’t tell everyone you’re gonna quit because anet introduced a new type of gear. “but.. but.. they said they wouldn’t do that..” well it’s their game and they can do whatever the hell they want. for me personally is good that they gave us ascended. that way there’s always someone better than you. you have something to look forward to. work for the gear you want. not just hit 80, buy exotics, some fancy weapons, and trinkets and go among equals. you want to quit real life too just because you saw a guy that was bigger, stronger, prettier than you? ofc not..

anyone reading this that’s about to quit: DON’T POST A TOPIC ABOUT IT AND JUST GO! WE DON’T NEED ANY MORE NEGATIVITY AROUND HERE ANYWAYS…

It is obvious what this topic is about from the title, if you are too delicate to cope with differing opinions, then don’t read it.

MaideN.3284:

and every time someone feels like quitting has to make a topic on forums. because they want to quit and everyone should know about it. because he is an important part of the game and it will not be the same without him. or he’s not totally sure if he wants to quit and wants other people to try to convince him not to quit. or..
i could go on for ages why people do something like that. if you are displeased with the game, stop playing it. don’t tell everyone you’re gonna quit because anet introduced a new type of gear. “but.. but.. they said they wouldn’t do that..” well it’s their game and they can do whatever the hell they want. for me personally is good that they gave us ascended. that way there’s always someone better than you. you have something to look forward to. work for the gear you want. not just hit 80, buy exotics, some fancy weapons, and trinkets and go among equals. you want to quit real life too just because you saw a guy that was bigger, stronger, prettier than you? ofc not..

anyone reading this that’s about to quit: DON’T POST A TOPIC ABOUT IT AND JUST GO! WE DON’T NEED ANY MORE NEGATIVITY AROUND HERE ANYWAYS…

Maybe, but on the other hand it can be valuable feedback. It’s pretty obvious that GW2 is far from perfect and it’s not very polished, and it’s enjoyable up to a point. We are all human, and devs made a lot of mistakes that could be avoided in the future due to “whining”.
A lot of people in this thread really don’t play the game, but they check updates to the game from time to time. Why wouldn’t they? It’s a great game, and we want things we enjoy in the game updated and expanded (hopefully).

I hope you understand that some of these comments are valuable feedback, even more valuable than constant praise of the game. GW2 is very young and it will probably take about a year and a half to fill it out with more content and improving the current one.

Only because you like it and keep playing it, it doesn’t mean that the team shouldn’t work on keeping as many players playing. This thread provides feedback on what could be improved in the future. Maybe not tomorrow or in a month, but there will probably be changes in a year or so.

Ascended gear was the biggest reason why I stopped playing, but not the only one. My other reasons are (in no particular order):

The game wasn’t ready. So many things were (and still are) broken about it since launch.

This game is grindy beyond description. In so many ways. It’s demotivating.

I’m concerned about where the gem store is going. This game appears to be moving in the “pay to win” direction.

ArenaNet doesn’t appear to actually stand for anything. They don’t communicate well, and most of what they do say is vague.

PvP is not what I’d expected from a Guild Wars game. Nothing but capturing points. No GvG. No apparent reason to grind out the PvP title, either. No /rank emotes or whatever. No special guild capes or similar to compete for.

WvW was fun until they introduced tier gear. Lame. I really don’t want to have to grind for days/weeks/months to remain competitive.

They pretty much threw the manifesto out on 15 November. The game they advertised in that manifesto is not the game I seem to have paid for.

The only reason I still lurk on the forums is because I loved Guild Wars for years, ankittenep hoping that ArenaNet is going to say something intelligent and fix this game.

So far, however, nothing. So I won’t be logging in. I’m finding other things to play, and I can say that if something really catches my interest, it’s going to be even harder for ArenaNet to lure me back.