Guild Wars 2

Ansultares.1567:

Twitchz.6407:

Is it a grind if you enjoy doing it though? If fractals were an awesome experience and players loved doing them would people still be so against the items you received for doing them?

I said it above; FotM is horizontal progression. The ascended gear tacked onto it is vertical progression. The response I’ve seen regarding FotM alone is generally positive, outside of the issue with disconnects.

Twitchz.6407:

What I’m trying to say is its not what you get for doing them that matters, it should be the choice of what you do and if you enjoy doing it.

How about we flip it and ask, why did they feel a need to give FotM higher tier loot?

What about exotics was insufficient to carry FotM? I have yet to see any sort of explanation as to why exotics were insufficient. I’d really love to read one, but I don’t think it exists.

But Fractrals aren’t horizontal progression, they require you to have finished the previous tier before moving on to the next. As I understand it you are then required to get agony items for resistance so you can go further.

How is this any different to simply getting better gear and fighting harder monsters?
If this is what you meant i completely agree with you, i don’t understand why they did it either.

Twitchz.6407:

But Fractrals aren’t horizontal progression, they require you to have finished the previous tier before moving on to the next. As I understand it you are then required to get agony items for resistance so you can go further.

They’re horizontal to the rest of the game, as is agony so long as the mechanic is contained purely within FotM.

It’s like a mini-game, but someone slapped on gear superior to previous endgame gear, for no other reason than that they could.

Twitchz.6407:

How is this any different to simply getting better gear and fighting harder monsters?
If this is what you meant i completely agree with you, i don’t understand why they did it either.

Getting higher stat gear to fight “harder” monsters is not necessarily interesting progression.

In fact, you see complaints all the time in this MMO and others that ever increasing monster hitpools and boss attacks approaching one-shot status are unattractive.

But that’s all the stats are good for; increasing hit pools, and making attacks stronger. The only real progression there is paperdoll progression.

Unless the developer is also introducing interesting mechanics, then the fights grow stale because you’ve done them all before no matter how far up the VP you get.

Fractals themselves provide an interesting study in this; the gear offers stat increases, but the only one offering any material difference is agony resist. Beyond that, monsters’ healthpools and damage scale with each fractal level. Without the stat upgrade, you and everyone else might be 1-3 fractal levels lower than you currently are (more if you refuse to run fractals without the associated stat increase on gear).

Meanwhile, if you’ve run at least through fractal 10, you’ll notice that with each tier of fractals, certain mechanics become active/enhanced. Ultimately, that progression is far more interesting than pursuing the stat upgrades.

And once again, I’m left wondering why include the stat upgrades at all.

Ansultares.1567:

And once again, I’m left wondering why include the stat upgrades at all.

That’s the million dollar question, which we’ll never get a real answer to.

We all have a good idea why of course, it just doesn’t make sense, not to me anyway.

LOCO.1785:

Ansultares.1567:

And once again, I’m left wondering why include the stat upgrades at all.

That’s the million dollar question, which we’ll never get a real answer to.

We all have a good idea why of course, it just doesn’t make sense, not to me anyway.

I thought this was discussed before? Is Ascended gear not to bridge the gap between the exotic and the upcoming legendary armors?

Twitchz.6407:

LOCO.1785:

Ansultares.1567:

And once again, I’m left wondering why include the stat upgrades at all.

That’s the million dollar question, which we’ll never get a real answer to.

We all have a good idea why of course, it just doesn’t make sense, not to me anyway.

I thought this was discussed before? Is Ascended gear not to bridge the gap between the exotic and the upcoming legendary armors?

there’s part of the horror. that they feel there needs to be a gap shows another critical level in the endless hamster wheel of doom. that is, another big leap in stats.

the point of most is: why should there be a big leap in stats on gear? is roflstomping players/content the only way you can feel you’ve progressed?

Twitchz.6407:

I thought this was discussed before? Is Ascended gear not to bridge the gap between the exotic and the upcoming legendary armors?

If Ascended gear had offered no more stats than exotic gear, except to include Agony resist, then legendary armor could still have been BiS while offering the only stat-superior gear to exotics.

Again, literally no reason to include increased stats on Ascended gear, except to institute the gear treadmill.

Meanwhile, until Ascended gear was released, legendary weapons didn’t (and still don’t currently) offer superior stats to exotic gear; legendary weapons (and by extension, armor) were nothing more than super-unique skins.

If anything, this says to me that legendary armor won’t look all that legendary; it wouldn’t need stat padding if its looks alone were enough to make it desirable. This is similar to how I feel about Ascended gear in general; the gear treadmill is a silent admission that WvW/PvP will not be the ongoing focus of the game.

Twitchz.6407:

LOCO.1785:

Ansultares.1567:

And once again, I’m left wondering why include the stat upgrades at all.

That’s the million dollar question, which we’ll never get a real answer to.

We all have a good idea why of course, it just doesn’t make sense, not to me anyway.

I thought this was discussed before? Is Ascended gear not to bridge the gap between the exotic and the upcoming legendary armors?

how does creating a tier of armor that uses tons of t6 mats bridge a gap to legendaries, which require a ton of t6 mats? it only delays the legendary as they both rely on the exact same items to create.

all this did is make my legendary progress slower, as i now need the t6 mats and ectos for ascended gear.

Twitchz.6407:

But Fractrals aren’t horizontal progression, they require you to have finished the previous tier before moving on to the next. As I understand it you are then required to get agony items for resistance so you can go further.

Ansultares.1567:

They’re horizontal to the rest of the game, as is agony so long as the mechanic is contained purely within FotM.

It’s like a mini-game, but someone slapped on gear superior to previous endgame gear, for no other reason than that they could.

and that bit about gear being slaped in is really the hole problem

happily A-net Know’s this and plans to add that gear to the rest of the game, As well as any gear after that.

Its all about Options and letting us grow stronger or progress in the game the way we want to, not be forced into one part of content in order to progress in the game.

thats mine and MOST players problems with other MMO’s not that there is gear Progresstion just that there is only one way to get said gear ((dungeon running))

Azure.8670:

people quitting the game over ascended gear is AMAZING to me. Yea, they said they didnt want to make the game a grind like WoW, but when people complain that there isnt enough content in a game… thats “free”… and they try to do something about it people still complain. Its a lose lose for Anet. Stop complaining. I completely understand your exotic gear isnt top tier anymore but you know what? congrats, we have more content to work with. IF you truly love the game youll understand its required to make the game live, just stop being a baby about it

Vertical progression isn’t required for a game to live. GW1 did it for 7 years. And only really died when GW2 came out. And there are still people on the GW1 servers.

With that said, I love the game, and I haven’t played it since they added the abomination known as ascended gear. With its insane amount of material requirements to craft and the fact that they’re only going to be adding more pieces of it. Plus the fact that they already admitted that in the future they’ll be adding even more infusions to grind. It is one big giant gear grind.

Twitchz.6407:

LOCO.1785:

Ansultares.1567:

And once again, I’m left wondering why include the stat upgrades at all.

That’s the million dollar question, which we’ll never get a real answer to.

We all have a good idea why of course, it just doesn’t make sense, not to me anyway.

I thought this was discussed before? Is Ascended gear not to bridge the gap between the exotic and the upcoming legendary armors?

One of ANets lead devs did state something similar, but the problem is the statement is complete garbage. Bridge the gap? It extends the gap ten fold. So how is it bridging the gap? Have you seen the required mats for ascended gear? For a game marketed as grind free, I’d hate to see what they consider a grind.

If they wanted to truly bridge the gap, why give ascended gear higher stats and require such a slog of a grind just for one single piece mind you? Honestly I already thought legendaries were a bit nuts, but hey, it’s just an cosmetic grind. No advantage gained there, so more power to the people who chose to go for one. Ascended gear however does give players an advantage over others and also contradicts their marketing speal of ‘easy to obtain highest stat gear’.

Oobob.6754:

how does creating a tier of armor that uses tons of t6 mats bridge a gap to legendaries, which require a ton of t6 mats? it only delays the legendary as they both rely on the exact same items to create.

And then there’s this totally valid point which I quote here.

LOCO.1785:

If they wanted to truly bridge the gap, why give ascended gear higher stats and require such a slog of a grind just for one single piece mind you?

I figure they set the initial requirements extremely high so that players didn’t acquire them in the first hours after FotM was released.

But, at the same time, I’ve seen no indication that they’ll reduce the cost in the future, other than empty statements that they will (they can say whatever they kitten well please, but it’s meaningless if they don’t act on those statements).

Increasing the precursor drop rate was the first instance I know of that they could have indicated that moving forward they’ll be reducing requirements outside of a timetable that includes the release of an expansion; it’s near useless to reduce the requirements only once newer, shinier pieces are available.

Instead of actually increasing the precursor drop rate, we’ve now experienced a two-fold stimulus program, temporarily “flooding” the market with precursors. It still doesn’t address the underlying issue of low precursor drop rates, and precursor prices will continue to rise again, until the next round of “stimulus.” They’re as bad as the US federal government in that regard.

Columba.9730:

You can assume whatever you want. Not all of us Zerg in WvWvW. How about this? If the stats truly don’t matter as you claim, why not make them equal to exotics? After all, fractals are so much fun and worth the time to do all of them, right?

we’re all running with assumptions here because only the jewelry is out so far. and as for making them equal to exotics, actually, i was wondering the same thing. i don’t understand the point of ascended gear tbh.

They could have made an awesome “epic quest” of obtaining a precursor, but the game is going against innovation from here on out, so they’ll likely just dump more of them out to whomever is playing at any time they want people grinding for more t6 material/ecto. It’s ingenious! … and pathetic.

Oh, BTW Anet Moderator, I’ve noticed you’ve changed my topic from “I quit the game due to Ascended Gear” to “I feel like quitting the game due to Ascended Gear.” There is no “feel” here.

According to GW2G survey, 46.6% of players DO NOT support Ascended Items.

13.8% say they will not play the game anymore.
16.1% say they are undecided.

Lets be fair here and say that at least 10% of the Guild Wars 2 player base will discontinue playing the game. Maybe it’s okay for 10% of players to quit, because ANET believes that’s how much they would of lost anyways if players quit due to not having enough grind.

So, pretty much this topic is pointless?

Oreoz.2573:

But if you consider the pool of players from which to choose your team, then the game is very massive. Bit of a gray area in the classification.

Exactly my point. It is a grey area and your name was just made up. Nothing factual about it.

Oreoz.2573:

Your response is mostly subjective opinion so in a discussion between us concerning the facts, it doesnt hold up much.

I only responded to your inaccuracy. Nothing more.

Oreoz.2573:

At any rate, GW1 really wasn’t an MMO. No matter how you want to slice it. It naturally was going to have a pretty laid back grind/progression due to its small scale (1-4 people occupying a world at any given time).

First you admit it’s a grey area, now you say it isn’t. Please stop contradicting yourself.

Oreoz.2573:

To treay GW1 as the ultimate guide for how GW2 should operate is folly. It is also naive to expect as much for two general reasons:

1. The ever changing market and the 7 year gap in which those changes took place.
2. The aforementioned fact that GW2 is a true MMO that must appeal to and does reach a much broader market than GW1 ever did.

This is why your original answer of Guild Wars to the posed question of what mmo has less grind than GW2 is…..well…..wrong.

It wasn’t my orignal answer. You confuse me for someone else who said that. I merely stated that your reply that I responded to ws not factual but made up.

That hasn’t changed.

WvW Issues with Gear spiral(s):
- Stat Gap
Currently players already complain about Gear (lowlvl vs Exo). Imho wouldnt consider it a true “entry barrier” into WvW, but adding AG ontop of it WILL have a harmful effect on WvW.
100 vs 100 players on same skill level WILL make a difference if one side has way more AG than the other.(AoE/Overlapping Heals/Conditions…etc)
-> Newbies will demoralize faster
-> Content with better farm rate on AGs WILL suck away population from WvW.
- DPS scaleing WILL break on some point making glass cannons the FOTM again.

- Grind issue
I started to build some additional exo sets to be able to play around with different playstyles…
… and its the first MMO ever I really started to twink (other having them as bank mules)…
This horizontal progression i didnt considered grind (even if it takes time/effort. Cuz u CAN but are not FORCED to do it!).
…I STOPPED and lost fun to farm/trade after hearing about AGs with stats increased!
->Why?: My current goals got obsolete and not willing to farm x sets each year on y chars.
(Seen it, did it and finished with it^^)

SOLUTIONS:
- Get away with the increased stats
- Put Agony mechanic on a rune…
or
- Roll out some “exo-set-clones” with additional Agony stat, but without upping the existing stats.
- Make AG Cosmetic stepping stone between Legendaries (armor/weapons). Nice looks but easier to get and less optical gimmicks compared to legendaries.
WinWin.

/sarcasm
In AGONY the WvW dedicated playerbase awaits the FOTM builds riseing up due to a broader getting power gap…and in Agony some will put up with the slavery grind of a gear spiral. Giving others agony for haveing to fight superior equipped enemies…
…and again in Agony all WvW newcomer will flee the battlegrounds even more in the future.
…some funny devs in your pve division, I guess…oO^^

Azure.8670:

people quitting the game over ascended gear is AMAZING to me.

Why is this amazing?

We were promised a game that we could leave for a month or a year and then come back and join whatever is the latest content. Ascended gear, infusions, FotM-levels and the confirmation that the level-cap will be raised that the game that’s currently called “GW2” is not the “GW2” we bought. So we stop playing it.

I have no intention to update all 4.5 (soon to be 5) sets of exotic gear for my 80s to ascended plus infusion. I was collecting exotic sets so I could swith playstyles. now with item-inflation slowly but steadily devaluing these items, it just feels like it’s not worth it anymore.

GW2 used to be a nice walk to a restaurant in a park. And once I was there, I could go on another walk and eventually return. But the goal would always be there and I’d eventually get there. Now it’s a race and if I’m slower than the guy carrying the goalposts, I’ll fall behind. Thanks, but I have a job, I want to relax having fun, not to struggle to keep up. You do that, I won’t.

phooka.4295:

Ascended gear, infusions, FotM-levels and the confirmation that the level-cap will be raised that the game that’s currently called “GW2” is not the “GW2” we bought. So we stop playing it.

The hell? Level cap being raised ALSO?!

Link please?

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

Oh, BTW Anet Moderator, I’ve noticed you’ve changed my topic from “I quit the game due to Ascended Gear” to “I feel like quitting the game due to Ascended Gear.” There is no “feel” here.

Erm, it was right in your original post

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

I admit I’ve taken it too personal, but this is just how I feel about the game at the moment. I want horizontal progression and expanded content, not new stats and gear treadmills. Besides arguing about new gear and such, has anyone actually permanently or temporarily quit the game due to the introduction of Ascended Gear? Whoever has temporarily put the game to rest, how will the next big update change your mind? Are we over-reacting and taking it too personal?

noother.2190:

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

Oh, BTW Anet Moderator, I’ve noticed you’ve changed my topic from “I quit the game due to Ascended Gear” to “I feel like quitting the game due to Ascended Gear.” There is no “feel” here.

Erm, it was right in your original post

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

I admit I’ve taken it too personal, but this is just how I feel about the game at the moment.

FWIW, those are two different meanings:

I quit my job. It’s a horrible place to work, that’s how I feel.

I feel like quitting my job.

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

phooka.4295:

Ascended gear, infusions, FotM-levels and the confirmation that the level-cap will be raised that the game that’s currently called “GW2” is not the “GW2” we bought. So we stop playing it.

The hell? Level cap being raised ALSO?!

Link please?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13tuac/im_the_studio_design_director_on_guild_wars_2_ama/c7762pk

Meret.5943:

noother.2190:

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

Oh, BTW Anet Moderator, I’ve noticed you’ve changed my topic from “I quit the game due to Ascended Gear” to “I feel like quitting the game due to Ascended Gear.” There is no “feel” here.

Erm, it was right in your original post

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

I admit I’ve taken it too personal, but this is just how I feel about the game at the moment.

FWIW, those are two different meanings:

I quit my job. It’s a horrible place to work, that’s how I feel.

I feel like quitting my job.

Yeah, I know. I’m just giving him a hard time is all.

Are all these concerns really justified though? I mean is it really a race? I only upgraded my chest and pants to Exotic and then in halloween I added the Boots (which have wrong stats) And I used that for WvW and dungeons exclusively. If I am PvEing I wear a rare set geared on MF and everything still feels really easy!

In WvW I have a rediculous kill to death ration something close to 10 kills for 1 death wearing only 33% exotics!

I even tried playing a little WvW wearing no armor and no acessories and still had a positive kill ratio. 7 kills to 2 deaths.

So yes quiting the game for 6 months, 1 year and coming back will have you subclassed as some people if not all will have ascended you will still be in exotic but will that really matter as much as we think it will matter? I am very skeptical! as I said no armor and I was still able to compete do we really think 1 tier is going to unbalance that much something thats designed from the ground up to be unbalanced anyway?

ASB.4295:

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

phooka.4295:

Ascended gear, infusions, FotM-levels and the confirmation that the level-cap will be raised that the game that’s currently called “GW2” is not the “GW2” we bought. So we stop playing it.

The hell? Level cap being raised ALSO?!

Link please?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13tuac/im_the_studio_design_director_on_guild_wars_2_ama/c7762pk

Because if this, I just gave up on Guild Wars 2. Such a tremendous disappointment. I loved Guild Wars so very much for many years. This game is exactly the opposite of everything ArenaNet and Guild Wars ever stood for. It’s grindy, it’s broken, the economy is in a shambles…it’s a pain in the kitten to do anything, and it’s just simply not fun.

Sigh. I had so much hope for this game.

LOCO.1785:

Ansultares.1567:

And once again, I’m left wondering why include the stat upgrades at all.

That’s the million dollar question, which we’ll never get a real answer to.

We all have a good idea why of course, it just doesn’t make sense, not to me anyway.

They try to have the advantage of gear progression, where your players have always something left to do and not have the disadvantage where a superman character can one shoot almost everyone. That’s the reason for the infusion at least, imho. Some of the stats are only useful if you do the dungeon.

The stats useful outside the dungeon are the lure to do the dungeon. Else the WvW people will not do the dungeon at all and they will get bored faster.

ASB.4295:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13tuac/im_the_studio_design_director_on_guild_wars_2_ama/c7762pk

Well, just found another reason to drop this game. Keep ’em coming. Give me no reason to return, please.

Halandir.3609:

Azure.8670:

people quitting the game over ascended gear is AMAZING to me. Yea, they said they didnt want to make the game a grind like WoW, but when people complain that there isnt enough content in a game… thats “free”… and they try to do something about it people still complain. Its a lose lose for Anet. Stop complaining. I completely understand your exotic gear isnt top tier anymore but you know what? congrats, we have more content to work with. IF you truly love the game youll understand its required to make the game live, just stop being a baby about it

You know what? It requires a special mindset to consider a +5 to stats “content”!

Don’t worry though. That special mindset will eventually be the majority once the rest of us leave.
I really hope that Anet’s metrics look a lot different than what can be found on other gametracking sites.

One stupid mistake should not hurt a great game as much as this and I am one of those in a holding pattern waiting for Anet to fix that horrible mistake!

Honestly, it doesn’t matter if you leave. It doesn’t matter if I leave!

Hopefully, anet will realize their mistake and add more vertical progression.

The “Horizonal progression” crowd is most likely such a teeny tiny minority in the game, and they’re also the people who hate the gem shop. So why should anet care if they ALL quit?

Ahlen.7591:

(…)
The “Horizonal progression” crowd is most likely such a teeny tiny minority in the game, and they’re also the people who hate the gem shop. So why should anet care if they ALL quit?

Just out of curiosity, where are you getting the notion from that the, as you call them, “horizontal progression crowd” hates the gem shop?

Rouven.7409:

Just out of curiosity, where are you getting the notion from that the, as you call them, “horizontal progression crowd” hates the gem shop?

Exactly what I was thinking.

What’s funny is all this time you spent talking about on forums, you could’ve gotten quite a few pieces of ascended gear by now or enough gold/badges/ whatever to invest in it in the future. If you think you need ascended gear now; does that mean you think others need ascended gear as well? Are you the kind of person to reject people without the top-of-the-line gear? Just like how I don’t care what people wear, I don’t think people should either unless they can really help themselves (staying in green, getting carried the way through, while hoarding gold—bad manner). But seriously, the need for ascended gear now is what is killing you guys; you do not need it now and it hasn’t been a game changer for anyone. And as they reported they are going to make it a lot more available in the future. I’m just going to wait 1-2 years from now and bump this thread up so people can be embarassed on how much ascended gears did not become a starting point for a endless progression theme for this game overall.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

What’s funny is all this time you spent talking about on forums, you could’ve gotten quite a few pieces of ascended gear by now or enough gold/badges/ whatever to invest in it in the future. If you think you need ascended gear now; does that mean you think others need ascended gear as well? Are you the kind of person to reject people without the top-of-the-line gear? Just like how I don’t care what people wear, I don’t think people should either unless they can really help themselves (staying in green, getting carried the way through, while hoarding gold—bad manner). But seriously, the need for ascended gear now is what is killing you guys; you do not need it now and it hasn’t been a game changer for anyone. And as they reported they are going to make it a lot more available in the future. I’m just going to wait 1-2 years from now and bump this thread up so people can be embarassed on how much ascended gears did not become a starting point for a endless progression theme for this game overall.

If you’re going to wait 1-2 years just to do that, i really don’t know what to tell you. I wish i had your wonderful patience, persistence and tolerance to play 2 years of bugs that get “fixed” waking up one day to find your character can’t jump properly, content released half way with promises of the future posted on another website, ninja patches, guild jumping and etc.
Revenge is a dish best served cold, but by that time, majority of people who posted in this thread will probably have gw2 out of their minds and play some new FOTM game (see what i did there?) and the minority right now, who will stick with GW2 will probably wear a “Relic” graded gear.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

I’m just going to wait 1-2 years from now and bump this thread up so people can be embarassed on how much ascended gears did not become a starting point for a endless progression theme for this game overall.

The treadmill system is not the only issue people have with the gear, you know. There’s also the point of people not wanting to spend long amounts of time gearing up to max stats. So even if the item progression stops at 12 pieces of ascended gear and ascended infusions for good, it takes far longer to get geared up in a complete set than it took getting Exotics. It’s the reason I always say “I’ll come back when the treadmill stops and the amount of time I have to spend for a full set of max armor doesn’t take so long that it’s an achievement in itself.”
ANet won’t deliberately lower the time investment for max gear to become trivial(which it was with exotics), so all I personally can hope for is that power and reward creep will catch up to the requirements for full ascended a few years down the line.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

What’s funny is all this time you spent talking about on forums, you could’ve gotten quite a few pieces of ascended gear by now or enough gold/badges/ whatever to invest in it in the future. If you think you need ascended gear now; does that mean you think others need ascended gear as well? Are you the kind of person to reject people without the top-of-the-line gear? Just like how I don’t care what people wear, I don’t think people should either unless they can really help themselves (staying in green, getting carried the way through, while hoarding gold—bad manner). But seriously, the need for ascended gear now is what is killing you guys; you do not need it now and it hasn’t been a game changer for anyone. And as they reported they are going to make it a lot more available in the future. I’m just going to wait 1-2 years from now and bump this thread up so people can be embarassed on how much ascended gears did not become a starting point for a endless progression theme for this game overall.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with how much or little ascended gear actually affects character power; it’s the principle of the thing and how it makes people feel about playing.

I have over 500 hrs played. I don’t have any exotics yet. Never really planned on it. Ascended gear and the fractals doesn’t impact my actual gameplay one bit, but what mattered to me was the principle of a capped-stat system and the knowledge that my characters would always be approaching the top grade and always be right where I left them in relationship to the power structure.

What’s important is how a power-creep gear treadmill – no matter how slight the incline is set – makes me (and others) feel about playing. It makes me feel like I’m always losing ground, and so gives me a sense of being 2nd rate and makes my time in the game feel useless. That’s ultimtely how I felt in every MMORPG I played before GW2, why I left them, why I stopped playing for a few years, and why I bought GW2 – because I thought (mistakenly) it would have a capped stat/gear/level system.

All who quoted me have valid points, but I guess I’m more on the mindset what’s done is done and Anet whether one deem it as a PR thing or not has somewhat apologized and have acknowledged the impact it has had on a large number of players (maybe not the majority, but definitely a good bunch). I just do not know what else there is to talk about unless they are making even more changes like this to prevent you from achieving an “end point” in stat progression. But all I’ve heard from Anet is that to make up for it in the future. Until they can make sure you have access to these equipments across a broader range of thing such as doing WvW, other dungeons, etc. They will not release anymore content. Which imo is the best they can do after this change. Blaming them for it isn’t going to do any good, nor is complaining. I understand all the worry before they engaged the topic. But there was an AMA and interview about how they regard it as a badly timed (maybe designed) idea. But what’s done is done, Anet cannot get rid of ascended but they can make it easier to obtain which from what I read is what they are working on. I just don’t know what else there is to talk about. If there is a suggestion, put it in the suggestions forum. But I don’t see the point in speaking outloud about how you quit because of it or what you immensely dislike about it. They cannot remove it at this point, so it’s either accept that they’ll do their best to make it an easier transition for us in the future or I guess do what the OP (maybe) or others are doing and quit.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

All who quoted me have valid points, but I guess I’m more on the mindset what’s done is done and Anet whether one deem it as a PR thing or not has somewhat apologized and have acknowledged the impact it has had on a large number of players (maybe not the majority, but definitely a good bunch). I just do not know what else there is to talk about unless they are making even more changes like this to prevent you from achieving an “end point” in stat progression. But all I’ve heard from Anet is that to make up for it in the future. Until they can make sure you have access to these equipments across a broader range of thing such as doing WvW, other dungeons, etc. They will not release anymore content. Which imo is the best they can do after this change. Blaming them for it isn’t going to do any good, nor is complaining. I understand all the worry before they engaged the topic. But there was an AMA and interview about how they regard it as a badly timed (maybe designed) idea. But what’s done is done, Anet cannot get rid of ascended but they can make it easier to obtain which from what I read is what they are working on. I just don’t know what else there is to talk about. If there is a suggestion, put it in the suggestions forum. But I don’t see the point in speaking outloud about how you quit because of it or what you immensely dislike about it. They cannot remove it at this point, so it’s either accept that they’ll do their best to make it an easier transition for us in the future or I guess do what the OP (maybe) or others are doing and quit.

Actually, there is something more to say:

It’s been a few weeks now, but Ascended is still only available through Fractals and the grind has not been reduced.

Leaving me to wonder just how long does it take to throw this gear on the karma vendor and the badge vendor and to whip up some recipes for crafters, plus reduce the mat grind by, say, half? Two-thirds? Whatever.

To the Op:
Take a brake, change game for some time, go play minecraft, lurk the forum for fun

For me, accended gear is not the main issue. The issue is of accusition and the amount of time to achieve something. To me, the requirments to get it are way out of line. I was gone for awhile and now trying to get a group just to run fractals at my current level is almost impossible and too time consuming.

The thing is I want to feel rewarded in what I do. If I go decide to grind for awhile getting mats, I should be able to get a fair amount in an hour or so. Problem is with DR and such, I can go grind for an hour and get nothing in return. It feels like I just wasted my time. Currently, the rewards do not match the effort put into it.

I like the game and all but I just cannot find myself logging in right now because my time in game does not feel as rewarding as it should be. I went back to that other game after 2 years of not playing. Yes there is grind in that game as well, but I am at least getting reward for my playtime. Gear in that game is actually easier now to come by then it ever was. It is also easier to access areas of the game that I want to play, such as dungeons and such, and not have to wait around for 2 hours + to play.

It basically boils down to seeing how they plan to implement the other methods of accended gear in the game and what requirements will be needed, to whether I come back to the game.

Just my 2 cents.

Just gonna take a few moments and clear up some misunderstandings:

1. Guild Wars 1 was never called by an MMO by Arenanet. Not once. We (not necessarily myself) called it that.

2. GW1 was an instanced online game. The only massive thing about it was the pool of players from which you could make a group from. In regards to exploring the world, you and yours are alone.

3. Bethesda isn’t making the Elder Scrolls Online. Zenimax is. Bethesda only provides lore support but aside from that they have no involvement whatsoever.

4. I don’t care about ascended gear.

5. Any statistics that don’t come from arenanet themselves concerning concurrent user count, deleted accounts, monthly earnings, blah blah blah……..truly do not matter. If you want an example, their plan to produce monthly updates. One would assume the gem store is doing well, yes?

A “dying” game doesn’t do that.

6. The decision to grind for limited pieces of gear before they are rolled out in the game properly is a decision of the player’s. If you get burnt out, that’s your fault. Yes it was poorly implemented, but we KNOW that it will be available in all aspects of the game in the future.

If you don’t want to make life easier on yourself and wait for that, that’s your call. Grinding fractals isn’t necessary. You won’t be left behind. There’s nothing to get in front of, really.

Impatience is the reason for your anxiety. You want the gear NOW instead of later.

Your fault. Not Anet’s.

7. A person who likes the game will play the game. A person who doesn’t won’t. The latter waste their time on the forums with conspiracy theories, wild accusations and predictions of supreme doom while in the meantime the game will thrive.

So with all that in mind here’s a central question to ask some of you complaining about ascended gear.

If it was in the game prior to launch, would you still be angry?

If so, why?

If not, why in the heck are you here? Go play the game and quit worrying about a future you can’t possibly hope to know.

Ansultares.1567:

Twitchz.6407:

Is it a grind if you enjoy doing it though? If fractals were an awesome experience and players loved doing them would people still be so against the items you received for doing them?

I said it above; FotM is horizontal progression. The ascended gear tacked onto it is vertical progression. The response I’ve seen regarding FotM alone is generally positive, outside of the issue with disconnects.

Twitchz.6407:

What I’m trying to say is its not what you get for doing them that matters, it should be the choice of what you do and if you enjoy doing it.

How about we flip it and ask, why did they feel a need to give FotM higher tier loot?

The impression I got from all they’ve said about it is they were looking for a place to start bringing in ascended gear, and the Lost Shores update was when it was ready to go. In retrospect, they should have brought it out differently. To me it seems like a good place to make some of ascended available, but it shouldn’t have been the only.

Why they couldn’t make the rings also drop from Garrison’s lord and the back drop from Stonemist’s lord, for example. Wvw is a stupid messy side of the game, but leaving it out of game improvements is only making it worse.

Ahlen.7591:

Halandir.3609:

Azure.8670:

people quitting the game over ascended gear is AMAZING to me. Yea, they said they didnt want to make the game a grind like WoW, but when people complain that there isnt enough content in a game… thats “free”… and they try to do something about it people still complain. Its a lose lose for Anet. Stop complaining. I completely understand your exotic gear isnt top tier anymore but you know what? congrats, we have more content to work with. IF you truly love the game youll understand its required to make the game live, just stop being a baby about it

You know what? It requires a special mindset to consider a +5 to stats “content”!

Don’t worry though. That special mindset will eventually be the majority once the rest of us leave.
I really hope that Anet’s metrics look a lot different than what can be found on other gametracking sites.

One stupid mistake should not hurt a great game as much as this and I am one of those in a holding pattern waiting for Anet to fix that horrible mistake!

Honestly, it doesn’t matter if you leave. It doesn’t matter if I leave!

Hopefully, anet will realize their mistake and add more vertical progression.

The “Horizonal progression” crowd is most likely such a teeny tiny minority in the game, and they’re also the people who hate the gem shop. So why should anet care if they ALL quit?

That’s funny, because 2 weeks after this fiasco went live I purchased a subscription to EVE for $20, and then spent another $20 on a PLEX. I will continue to pay at least $15 every month, just for the privilege of playing.

And that was my second choice of game. I would rather be playing GW2, and I assure you I would spend at least $15 a month (much more if the past is any indicator) on the game even if I didn’t need anything.

I have a job, a family, and a gaming habit. I play alts (all 8 classes in GW2), and I bounce around a lot.

My concern is related to “what if I take a break and come back” except I am not taking a break from the game – but rather from 7 characters while I play 1.

And for each of them, I played multiple builds.

So yea.. Ascended Gear and the future Infusion grind (because no matter what lies you people spout, the fact is that Infusions have stats in addition to Agony resistance) is a dealbreaker.

I will never, ever be able to keep up with 2-3 builds for 8 classes. Even if I played 24/7, I would spend most of my time grinding gear… and very little time enjoying the game.

This is the EXACT problem ArenaNet promised me they were going to solve with GW2. Then, they told me I wasn’t dedicated enough, and that they would not design a game for me. Instead, they want to pursue the very type of players who hated their philosophy and cried until they got the illusionary progression of inflated stats.

LOCO.1785:

Twitchz.6407:

LOCO.1785:

Ansultares.1567:

And once again, I’m left wondering why include the stat upgrades at all.

That’s the million dollar question, which we’ll never get a real answer to.

We all have a good idea why of course, it just doesn’t make sense, not to me anyway.

I thought this was discussed before? Is Ascended gear not to bridge the gap between the exotic and the upcoming legendary armors?

One of ANets lead devs did state something similar, but the problem is the statement is complete garbage. Bridge the gap? It extends the gap ten fold. So how is it bridging the gap? Have you seen the required mats for ascended gear? For a game marketed as grind free, I’d hate to see what they consider a grind.

It was to bridge the gap between acquisition of legendary vs exotic. I just hit 80 this morning on my ele, and already have a full suit of exotic armor, a couple weapons, and almost all lvl 80 jewels. And I haven’t even shopped the T.P. yet. :p

Legendary weapons are a huge endeavor, not everyone wants to grind it out, especially since it’s so $$ driven.

Ascended gear gives something to work toward if you want that’s non-trivial but not legendary in effort. The point is it’s time, not stats, per se

Sky, you’re on my server and thus I maybe feel a little more camaraderie- and desire to reassure you- than I would any other random poster here, so if you happen to come back and check this, let’s talk about it a little bit.

1. “no matter what lies you people spout, the fact is that Infusions have stats in addition to Agony resistance” – I’m not sure what people or what lies you are referring to, but you are right of course- the advanced infusions do have stats beyond agony resistance- a total of +5 to one stat of your choice. Do you truly find this to be a significant factor at present?

2. You have 8 characters and multiple builds for character- surely, being capable of doing it in the first place, you realized that this would be a more time-consuming and difficult undertaking than having just one character. Any additions to the game you wanted for more than one of your characters would require more effort on your part than if you only wanted to grab them for one character. This was the case with Exotic armor and superior sune sets, it was the case with Exotic weaponry and superior sigils, it was the case with exotic accessories (which I still don’t have all of on my two main characters personally- you must have a huge /age!). The crucial point here is that you appear to be indicating that you believe you NEED to do all of this (whatever this is, since we’re all speculating) for all your characters… which brings me to my final and most important point.

3. “Even if I played 24/7, I would spend most of my time grinding gear… and very little time enjoying the game.” – Why? What do you consider yourself unable to do now that you were able to do before? What content is inaccessible to you unless you have a 5% increase in base stats? Why would you do something other than what you wanted to do when you log on? This aspect of the entire discussion boggles my mind. It strikes me as something of a holdover attitude I cannot understand from other MMOs, never having played them (besides GW1).

Obviously, if you want to do very high level fractals, you need agony resistance. And you have to get that by either playing lots of fractals (which presumably you want to do if you want to play the high levels) or spending lots of gold. But other than that, I have literally no conception of why someone in your shoes can’t simply ignore ascended gear entirely for the forseeable future and go on your merry way.

Don’t listen to Ahlen, by the way. I heavily value horizontal progression and GW2 has it in spades, and I have no doubt it will continue to be available even by the time you’ve spent 10x the asking price of this game on another.

Anyway, if you ever find yourself wanting to log on and chat about this while doing something you actually enjoy in-game, message Hawkian The Blade.

I always respect those who respect others. I will do my best to answer you honestly and succinctly.

Hawkian.6580:

1. <snip>

I see many (not just this thread) whom claim that Infusion is purely horizontal progression. This is patently false.
No, +5 increase is not significant at this point. The impact of the increase is really irrelevant, though. The fact that there is a power curve is important to me. I do not enjoy chasing gear. I would have preferred to start at level 80 with a full set of exotics, but knowing that the curve would plateau eventually made it bearable.
There are many reasons that I don’t enjoy chasing gear, but I will instead defer to someone who I think said it very well.

“Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.”
- Mike O’Brien

You see… I want to play the game, at the highest levels, where competition can be found in PvE completion times, in WvW server ranks, and in PvP tournament ranking. I want to log on and play the game. I do not want to chase gear. I’ve done it for years and I refuse to do it again. I don’t want to hear about “+1 doesn’t matter”, because it does when my concern is a level playing field and differentials of only skill, strategy, experience, and other human input. Would you play competitive chess -1 pawn? I mean… it’s just 1 pawn.

(Yes, I know PvP is still a level playing field, and I would continue to play GW2 for that reason alone, except that I feel betrayed and I am not so addicted to games that I would endure such disrespect just to continue playing – subscription fee or not.)

Hawkian.6580:

2. <snip>

Not all of my characters have full Exotic gear. That didn’t matter because I was taking my time and enjoying myself. Again, I would have rather not had to grind levels and grind gear, but knowing there was a plateau made it bearable. Also… I bought the game with the understanding that I would have to work my way up to 80, and earn multiple sets of Exotic gear. I was also led to believe that since the plateau existed there was no rush to get there until and unless I was ready to do so.

I was building a guild of friends (RL – some from previous games) and family. We all have other priorities in life, and those of us who do game a lot are not interested in an ever-moving power curve. Such a thing causes diminishing returns on investment (of time and gem $) and causes massive segregation in the community.

Hawkian.6580:

3. <snip>

You have to get out of the mindset of “now”. MMO games are generally, and especially in my case, played for many years. The full set of Ascended gear will be 15-20% better than Exotic. This is set to occur by the end of 2013. This doesn’t include future infusions. This doesn’t include level cap raises, or future tiers of gear.

In 12 months time, all new content will be 20% more damage and 20% more health. That isn’t new or interesting to me, it’s just inflated.

So what if in that time I have been struggling to stay on the cutting edge, and I’ve only been able to do it with 1 character and 2 builds? Not only has my time invested been for naught (because the power curve doesn’t stop, it’s a curve), but now every other profession and build is further behind.

It never ends. I never get to stop chasing +1 this or that and just ENJOY the game.

Hawkian.6580:

Obviously… <snip>

So, if I ignore it for the forseeable future I am just delaying the inevitable. Eventually, I will need to do something about my gear. And I will be behind everyone else.

I have a lot of experience in MMOs. I’ve been down this road, and I’ve played this game. I gave up on MMOs until GW2, and then they broke their promise. People can argue that they didn’t actually promise it or whatever… but I was there. I was there before the beta, and I played in every BWE. I was on the forums then, discussing the direction of the game. I read the interviews and watched the videos. They knew what they were saying. Everyone knew what they were saying. The fact that they are trying to use this “well, technically” horse kitten is insulting to those of us who were there and heard it, and discussed it with them in their very own official forums!

Not quitting since there’s no monthly and content wise I think they are a great job. However if they add more and more vertical grind like this (already the ecto cost of the backpiece is ridiculously silly) then I’ll just stop keeping up and the day I start getting left out or start REALLY falling behind is the day I’ll say kitten it, there have been other games neglected because of this.

I’m not entirely against vertical progression but I think they should save the creep for expansions when things will be acquirable without (as much) unnecessarily padded out grind. The acquisition curve for exotics is about right. If they can stick to that with future expansions I’ll remain active.

Hawkian.6580:

Sky, you’re on my server and thus I maybe feel a little more camaraderie- and desire to reassure you- than I would any other random poster here, so if you happen to come back and check this, let’s talk about it a little bit.

1. “no matter what lies you people spout, the fact is that Infusions have stats in addition to Agony resistance” – I’m not sure what people or what lies you are referring to, but you are right of course- the advanced infusions do have stats beyond agony resistance- a total of +5 to one stat of your choice. Do you truly find this to be a significant factor at present?

2. You have 8 characters and multiple builds for character- surely, being capable of doing it in the first place, you realized that this would be a more time-consuming and difficult undertaking than having just one character. Any additions to the game you wanted for more than one of your characters would require more effort on your part than if you only wanted to grab them for one character. This was the case with Exotic armor and superior sune sets, it was the case with Exotic weaponry and superior sigils, it was the case with exotic accessories (which I still don’t have all of on my two main characters personally- you must have a huge /age!). The crucial point here is that you appear to be indicating that you believe you NEED to do all of this (whatever this is, since we’re all speculating) for all your characters… which brings me to my final and most important point.

3. “Even if I played 24/7, I would spend most of my time grinding gear… and very little time enjoying the game.” – Why? What do you consider yourself unable to do now that you were able to do before? What content is inaccessible to you unless you have a 5% increase in base stats? Why would you do something other than what you wanted to do when you log on? This aspect of the entire discussion boggles my mind. It strikes me as something of a holdover attitude I cannot understand from other MMOs, never having played them (besides GW1).

Obviously, if you want to do very high level fractals, you need agony resistance. And you have to get that by either playing lots of fractals (which presumably you want to do if you want to play the high levels) or spending lots of gold. But other than that, I have literally no conception of why someone in your shoes can’t simply ignore ascended gear entirely for the forseeable future and go on your merry way.

Don’t listen to Ahlen, by the way. I heavily value horizontal progression and GW2 has it in spades, and I have no doubt it will continue to be available even by the time you’ve spent 10x the asking price of this game on another.

Anyway, if you ever find yourself wanting to log on and chat about this while doing something you actually enjoy in-game, message Hawkian The Blade.

You seem like a smart guy so I’m puzzled as to why you are puzzled. Wanting to kit out multiple characters with optimal gear for pvp is entirely reasonable. WvW is arguably the best thing about this game and build crafting multiple characters is fun and was one of the highlights of GW1. As it is, exotic armor is already quite time consuming to get which restricts the variety of builds you can make on each character. Once we get full ascended gear and have the level cap raised, experimenting with different playstyles will be even more difficult.

Grinding has no place in pvp environments. Previous MMO’s could get away with powerful grind items because their combat systems sucked anyway. However games that are purely focused on the integrity of its gameplay (e.g. GW1, Starcraft 2, Dota 2, Chess) are highly sensitive to non-skill based advantages, no matter how small. Now some people will argue that GW2 isn’t like those games because it’s an “RPG”. Well GW1 players were hoping that GW2 wouldn’t be a traditional “RPG” and are feeling like they fell for the bait-and-switch.

Ahlen.7591:

…The “Horizonal progression” crowd is most likely such a teeny tiny minority in the game, and they’re also the people who hate the gem shop…

Ummm, in fact it’s the opposite dude. I’m part of the “horizontal progression” crowd and I frequented the gem shop a lot. In fact, I probably spent 4x or 5x more than another game’s subscription fee each month on the gem store. Why? Because I was kitting out my Alternate characters to get them skins and gear I wanted. But the vertical progression introduced STRONG disincentive to put down hard-earned real world currency on gear that will be obsolete sooner than later.

So NOW (and only now) I’ve decided to stop buying gems…

I pretty much stopped logging into the game after the Ascended gear was introduced. I don’t mind the new gear but I hate that they made it accessible through PvE only. I tried the FoTM and hated it as much as I hate all the other instanced dungeons. Maybe when they let us obtain it through WvW I’ll start playing again. Until then I’ll continue to lurk the forums and play Planetside.

It’s been a month and this gear still requires dungeon grinding.

I wonder if people still go on with that ascended gear is not better than exo? They are way better when using maintance oils and such. 1% more critdmg there n there gives change to go more tankier gear and ends up being stronger gearwise than exo holder. Game wasnt supposed to be gear grind. Now newcomers get their rares and start save exo and ask “will i make it there then?” No then the grinding starts. The thing i loved about gw 2 is that i wasnt forced to sit all day at dungeon entrance to look party suited for me like many (most) online games. If no party around i could go to wvw/pvp which gave me the money and items to buy/craft exotic gear. I just trully dont understand why Anet that has done great job so far with game decided to go for grinding. (fightin bots (yes there is still tons, most games do nothin about them, skill balances, events, pretty fair pvp (needs some fixes but beats every single pay to win crap)

Legendary weapon is massive grind and my ultimate challenge. (long run i will make it slowly) but now i have ascended to grind too. by craftinh i need tons of ectos and 250 t6 mats. Thats massive grinding!

I think Anet listened “pro/elite” players that are the minority of this game. The ones that bring green to anets investors are casual players, hopefully u wont forget that.

grind and RNG are the fabulous solutions they found to stop ppl from leaving. well sorry bud, that achieved the contrary.