Guild Wars 2

Mercucial.6759:

No. Take off your armor if you want more of a “challenge.”

That’s not a helpful solution, especially from the perspective of the lower level character whose challenge/experience is being ruined by the presence of some uber-hero tearing through the event.

One of the main draws to Guild Wars 2 for me has been the mechanic that adjusts your character’s effective level downward to one more suitable for the area you’re in. It essentially makes the entire world “end game content”. It also removes the fear of out-leveling content simply by playing the game normally (which leads to ridiculously easy combat, and eventually boredom), a problem I’ve experienced and come to loathe in several MMOs lately (I’m looking mostly at you, SWTOR and TERA).

Needless to say, I’m a big fan of this system. The problem I’m having is that it doesn’t seem to be working very well. And while I know there are players who dislike this entire system, when it comes down to it this is one of the core mechanics of GW2, it’s not going anywhere, and since it’s going to be around it should at least be working.

If you compare two characters in the same area, both stripped naked of equipment, one at (example) level 5 and the other at level 20 (but with an adjusted effective level of 5), the latter has much higher stats despite the adjustment. This is mainly due to traits the other character doesn’t have access to. Add on to that superior equipment with multiple stat modifiers, access to higher level skills, etc, and it just makes the problem worse. Even naked the down-leveled character is much more powerful than his counterpart, never mind when fully equipped.

There’s just a huge difference in terms of challenge (and thus, in my opinion, fun) between playing a character that is at the proper level for an area and a character who is down-leveled to the proper level for an area. We’re supposed to be (for example) excited when we see more players arriving to help with an event, but instead I’m discouraged because when I recognize that many of them (even myself) are higher level characters that have been artificially down-leveled, I know they’ll still be wiping the floor with monsters in said event with very little effort, thus turning what could have been an epic battle into a circus-style cakewalk. It just completely spoils the fun.

The developers have always said that even with the level scaling, higher level characters would be a “tiny” bit more powerful than normal, but in my opinion this is far from a little difference in power. And while I appreciate the effort, I think there’s definitely room for tweaking to bring this mechanic closer in line with its intended purpose.

If it’s fun, it will be nerfed.

Horrorscope.7632:

Nuka Cola.8520:

to downscale ever further you first need a reason to go back to those low level zones and there’s none.

There are two:

100% map completion.
Play with an under leveled friend.

Nuka is correct, there’s no reason to go back. It takes maybe an hour or two (at most) to complete a low level map as an 80. Once that’s done, there’s no reason to go back.

Sure, some people will help an low level friend, but really, even on level most of those maps are soloable with the occasional need for a little assistance on a Skill Point or something. But even going to help a friend is a pain because it’s less time the 80 is earning level-appropriate rewards.

I’m happy to help sometimes, but I need to progress towards my goals as well at level 80 and I can’t do that by looting level 20 or 30 blues. So time spent in low level zones is basically charity.

Vortex.5146:

Nuka is correct, there’s no reason to go back. It takes maybe an hour or two (at most) to complete a low level map as an 80. Once that’s done, there’s no reason to go back.

This is such an odd statement.

Maybe this little detail is being lost on some of you, but for many of us the process is simply this: Pick up MMO, play it, note that we are having fun, continue to play it.

I did not pick up Guild Wars 2 and start my low-level adventures thinking “Well this is utter crap, but I must slog through it to reach GW2’s highly vaunted end-game”. Quite the opposite, actually.

So, there I am having a blast adventuring in Queensdale. I eventually reach 80 with my preferred character and find myself considering that I’ve never adventured in the Plains of Ashford and the Ascalon regions. But, according to you and a few others, there’s no reason to visit these lower level areas.

Seriously? How about because playing my character through new GW2 content and adventures is just plain fun? You know.. the same kind of fun I was having in Queensdale when I started, and on my whole way through 80. It is certainly more fun that revisiting Orr for the umpteenth time.

Do you know what kills my fun, though? Combat that I can sleep through and still win because it’s entirely not challenging. And that’s exactly what happens when the game fails to downscale high level characters to the proper levels of power when they’re participating in a low-level zone. One of the core ideas GW2 was built around was the downscaling mechanic. And while it works “ok”, there’s clearly has room for improvement when my scaled high-level character is two-shotting low-level opponents – something he could not do when taking on that content at the recommended level.

Now, for players who want to take their high-level characters and trot through low-level regions like gods, there are plenty of MMOs that allow that. GW2 is not one of them. It was made abundantly clear by the developers how things would be in this particular area all throughout the game’s development, and all of you bought into this product with that information available to you. There should be no unpleasant surprises here, no complaints about being down-scaled, and no ridiculous threats to quit when people make requests to fix the system so it’s tighter.

Vortex.5146:

Horrorscope.7632:

Nuka Cola.8520:

to downscale ever further you first need a reason to go back to those low level zones and there’s none.

There are two:

100% map completion.
Play with an under leveled friend.

Nuka is correct, there’s no reason to go back. It takes maybe an hour or two (at most) to complete a low level map as an 80. Once that’s done, there’s no reason to go back.

Sure, some people will help an low level friend, but really, even on level most of those maps are soloable with the occasional need for a little assistance on a Skill Point or something. But even going to help a friend is a pain because it’s less time the 80 is earning level-appropriate rewards.

I’m happy to help sometimes, but I need to progress towards my goals as well at level 80 and I can’t do that by looting level 20 or 30 blues. So time spent in low level zones is basically charity.

I was speaking in general. You maybe happy to help sometimes, it’s not always about because it’s easy you should just solo it. Some people just want to be with another a do something. When you get a level 20 and 60 together, the 60 is a bit too powerful. The purpose of down scaling doesn’t have to be debated, it just has to do what it’s intents were, if you are down scaled to far either way, it isn’t doing what was planned as well as it should.

I believe that down-scaling should be very near equal and those down-scaling should get drops for their true level. To me that was the vision, that is win win.

As for map completion there should still be many maps that aren’t complete when you hit 80, when scaled right those should take more then a couple hours each.

The game was supposed to be designed this way, since it was, since it makes sense, we shouldn’t be asking for a free ride down-leveling and/or ruining it a bit for true level players in the area.

@Edge, you missed the point entirely. Aside from map completion or helping a friend, there is no reason at all for a level 80 to hang out in a low level zone. The rewards aren’t as good as the high level zone. Downscale it all you want for “challenge”, but aside from those two things mentioned earlier, it is not going to bring high level people back into the zone. This is the same as any other MMO in existence. Outlevel the content (and the drops) and people move on. Fix that problem and you’ve fixed the empty zone problem.

Light.8253:

@Edge, you missed the point entirely. Aside from map completion or helping a friend, there is no reason at all for a level 80 to hang out in a low level zone. The rewards aren’t as good as the high level zone.

And your above statement tells me you missed my point entirely. When did having fun with the content stop being its own reward? I was under the impression that’s why some people play computer games to begin with.

I can go on and explain that a level 80 character downscaled to a level 10 zone can obtain reward drops appropriate for a level 80 character, and that the XP, monetary, and karma rewards for events are all scaled appropriately for a level 80 character.. and so (unless your goal is to obtain crafting supplies appropriate for your true level) it really doesn’t matter where you choose to play.

But, again, that wasn’t the point I was trying to make. All those features, however, just make your claim seem all the more odd.

It’s not an issue.

Edge, I fun is subjective. For people with limited amounts of time, fun might not include hanging out in a low level zone for a chance of getting a level 80 item, as well as getting less karma, money, and XP as they would in a high level zone. My point still stands. Unless the rewards are equal, not a chance, not lowered, the high levels with less time do not have a good reason to stay in a low level zone.

Please don’t tell people that don’t think lowered rewards are fun that they are somehow incorrect.

I have spent extended periods of time playing in low level zones with friends and family that got a much later start than I did. I don’t care that I’m not getting level 80 drops, though I have occasionally seen high level drops. I like being able to play with them without completely ruining their experience by one-shotting everything.

I have noticed that as my gear has gotten better, it gets more powerful across the board. I wouldn’t mind if down-levelling were tweaked so that I do a little less damage, but my experience is any time something like this is tweaked it gets too hard a fix. For that reason, I’d vote to leave it alone.

A level 80 character scaled down to level 10 has much higher stats than a true level 10 character. Some of the difference in stats is coming from traits, some is coming from gear (level 80 characters have equipment with three stats on them where as level 10 characters only have access to equipment with a single stat on it). Sure, all those stats are lowered (made up example – 100 vitality only translates over as 10 vitality), but those little numbers add up quick. A level 80 scaled down to level 10 in a level 9 map-region ends up with stats roughly the same as a character who is truly level 16-20.

Which is odd for a game that’s supposed to value skill over gear.

You would think there would just be a hard cap put in place.. high enough that you won’t run into it when you’re at your true level, but low enough to help with the scaling problems we’re having now.

@Light: a level 80 character completing a level 5 event receives a little less money, karma, and experience than he would have received had he instead completed a level 80 event, but a) the difference isn’t that much and b) you can complete several level 5 events in the amount of time it takes to complete a single level 80 event. In the end, you actually earn more karma, money and experience in the lower level zones from event rewards.

You are, of course, likely to earn more money in general from a level 80 zone because you’re always receiving level ~80 items as drops, instead of a mix of level ~80 items and lower level items. That’s a small price to pay for having the whole world as your playground instead of just Orr.

Edge.4180:

@Light: a level 80 character completing a level 5 event receives a little less money, karma, and experience than he would have received had he instead completed a level 80 event, but a) the difference isn’t that much and b) you can complete several level 5 events in the amount of time it takes to complete a single level 80 event. In the end, you actually earn more karma, money and experience in the lower level zones from event rewards.

Sorry, that’s just not true. The Plinx chain doesn’t take long at all and the karma/drops/etc are vastly superior to what I’d get in a low level zone, even after the nerf. And there are plenty of other events to run, especially in Straits of Devastation. So I get more karma, higher level loot, t5/6 crafting mats, etc. that I wouldn’t get otherwise.

I will say this, I think we should not have to choose between having what you call fun and having to grind. I think Orr is a grind. I do not enjoy being there as much as I enjoyed many of the other maps. The mobs suck.

But I have goals for my character and reaching those goals is more fun for me even if I have to endure Orr to get them.

Vortex.5146:

Sorry, that’s just not true. The Plinx chain doesn’t take long at all and the karma/drops/etc are vastly superior to what I’d get in a low level zone, even after the nerf. And there are plenty of other events to run, especially in Straits of Devastation. So I get more karma, higher level loot, t5/6 crafting mats, etc. that I wouldn’t get otherwise.

I will say this, I think we should not have to choose between having what you call fun and having to grind. I think Orr is a grind. I do not enjoy being there as much as I enjoyed many of the other maps. The mobs suck.

But I have goals for my character and reaching those goals is more fun for me even if I have to endure Orr to get them.

No, it’s quite true.

A typical level 80 Orr event is ~18k XP, 378 karma, 1 silver 86 copper.

Meanwhile, I just completed a level 45 event on a level 80 character and earned ~13k XP, 257 karma, 1 silver 27 copper. Yes, as I pointed out earlier the rewards are lower, however it took me only 1 minute and 7 seconds to complete that event from start to finish. And that was the second part of a two part chain, the prior event earning me similar rewards and only taking 27 seconds to complete. Just over a minute and a half of events earned me ~26k XP, ~500 karma, ~2.5 silver.

They’re worth a little less, but not a lot less, and they can be completed very quickly.

I too feel very powerful, as if, I’m a “God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals,” when I go to newbie zones.

Downscale more? Then whats the point of getting better gear? Thats basically saying we should all hit a plateau when you out level a zone. It will not get any easier regardless of what gear you’re using. That completely kills the reason why people want better stats as they progress in the game.

I think they did a pretty good job at preventing anyone maxed lvl to do 3 hit kill a champion in a lvl 1-15 zone. Besides, if you weren’t grinding the game when you’re low lvl and gain most of ur xp from exploration, u should’ve explored most of the low lvl area already. I believe thats how Anet intended the game to be played.

Xolosheep.1649:

Downscale more? Then whats the point of getting better gear?

In this game, the point of getting better gear is to survive tougher challenges as your level increases and thus gain access to more areas of the game to play in. It is not so you can more easily lay waste to the opponents that are lower level than you. Games like World of Warcraft may be more in line with your expectations if you were hoping for the latter.

I thought we were all aware that GW2 was supposed to depend more on skill than gear, but I guess that memo didn’t get out everywhere.

A level 5 character fighting level 5 content has to work hard to earn rewards appropriate for his true level. That’s the concept of risk versus reward at work. And the whole reason you, as a level 80, can go back to a level 5 encounter and earn rewards appropriate for your true level is because (in theory) down-scaling maintains the precious balance of risk versus reward. In reality, that balance looks very much out of whack when you’re both earning rewards appropriate for your level, but the level 5 characters fights for his life to do so and his scaled down level 80 companion is two-shotting those same opponents.

To suggest that’s fine is ridiculous.

Edge.4180:

Xolosheep.1649:

Downscale more? Then whats the point of getting better gear?

In this game, the point of getting better gear is to survive tougher challenges as your level increases and thus gain access to more areas of the game to play in. It is not so you can more easily lay waste to the opponents that are lower level than you. Games like World of Warcraft may be more in line with your expectations if you were hoping for the latter.

I thought we were all aware that GW2 was supposed to depend more on skill than gear, but I guess that memo didn’t get out everywhere.

A level 5 character fighting level 5 content has to work hard to earn rewards appropriate for his true level. That’s the concept of risk versus reward at work. And the whole reason you, as a level 80, can go back to a level 5 encounter and earn rewards appropriate for your true level is because (in theory) down-scaling maintains the precious balance of risk versus reward. In reality, that balance looks very much out of whack when you’re both earning rewards appropriate for your level, but the level 5 characters fights for his life to do so and his scaled down level 80 companion is two-shotting those same opponents.

To suggest that’s fine is ridiculous.

What level 5 zone are you going to that has anything even remotely worth it for a level 80?

Mercucial.6759:

What level 5 zone are you going to that has anything even remotely worth it for a level 80?

Queensdale. Plains of Ashford. Metrica Province. Caledon Forest. Wayfarer Foothills. Pick one.

Edge.4180:

Mercucial.6759:

What level 5 zone are you going to that has anything even remotely worth it for a level 80?

Queensdale. Plains of Ashford. Metrica Province. Caledon Forest. Wayfarer Foothills. Pick one.

I pick CF. So, what appropriate rewards do you get there as a lvl 80?

Strip down naked and use only weapons you pick up from the environment. Problem solved.

u shouldn’t forget one important point: most lowlevel chars (1-15) run around in white equipment, that isn’t even on par with their own level. Whereas many lvl 80 champs are full rare or full exotic. try running lowlevel zones with only white armor. then u’ll see how it will be a lot harder.

A lot of times I go into lower zones naked. Keeps fights fresh and challenging.

does he mean starter zone?

Or does he mean level 25+ and if he does mean 25+ then is he playing a warrior because if so that would explain a few things about his post.

Edge.4180:

Mercucial.6759:

What level 5 zone are you going to that has anything even remotely worth it for a level 80?

Queensdale. Plains of Ashford. Metrica Province. Caledon Forest. Wayfarer Foothills. Pick one.

I’ve been going back through the zones I’ve missed for 100% completion, and the best thing I’ve gotten from a newbie zone so far is a Large Skull.

So yeah…..

Edge.4180:

Xolosheep.1649:

Downscale more? Then whats the point of getting better gear?

In this game, the point of getting better gear is to survive tougher challenges as your level increases and thus gain access to more areas of the game to play in. It is not so you can more easily lay waste to the opponents that are lower level than you. Games like World of Warcraft may be more in line with your expectations if you were hoping for the latter.

I thought we were all aware that GW2 was supposed to depend more on skill than gear, but I guess that memo didn’t get out everywhere.

A level 5 character fighting level 5 content has to work hard to earn rewards appropriate for his true level. That’s the concept of risk versus reward at work. And the whole reason you, as a level 80, can go back to a level 5 encounter and earn rewards appropriate for your true level is because (in theory) down-scaling maintains the precious balance of risk versus reward. In reality, that balance looks very much out of whack when you’re both earning rewards appropriate for your level, but the level 5 characters fights for his life to do so and his scaled down level 80 companion is two-shotting those same opponents.

To suggest that’s fine is ridiculous.

I’m not aware of any other RPGs, be it mmo or not, or even any action game that has a character progression system, have a downscale system that work so well, that the beginning lvl mob would give a max lvl player a hard time killing them. In fact, in most of the other games, (at least the one I played) will let me kill them faster than wat GW2 does.

Like I said, if you didn’t grind for xp at lower lvl, but instead u go explore those area to lvl up, u wouldn’t have much reason to go back to explore lvl 1-15 maps when u maxed lvl, then u wouldn’t feel a bunch of contents got left out because they’re too easy. I did that with my elementalist and it was a fun experience.

Also, as some people pointed out already, if you really love the challenge, go get some gears that are lower lvl than the area you’re exploring. The option is there, you just didn’t use it.

I’m not saying I don’t like the idea that mob in low lvl area shouldn’t give u a hard time when u maxed lvl, but I have not seen one mmo that effectively solved this problem without making u feel ur gear / lvl stats are not helping you at all. Players want to feel powerful, that’s what most of the players want. That’s how people perceive progress.

Think of it as relief from having to run like a sissy in a level 80 area. We are heroes after all; it’s nice to have the environment reinforce that fact somewhere. I actually agree that a level 80 in a starting area is OP, but I’d much rather they address the sissies we are in a level 80 area , than the heroes we are at level 3.

From the perspective of a higher leveled character it is completely fine. For the people also taking part in events that are in the level range? Kind of ruins the experience as it becomes incredibly difficult to do enough damage to get credit for events, in comparison to the higher leveled guy mowing through mobs (many an experience on alt characters).

Scaling definitely needs to be adjusted.

Volomon.9147:

Strip down naked and use only weapons you pick up from the environment. Problem solved.

So, if I’m playing on a low level character attempting to enjoy challenging gameplay and high level characters (despite being scaled down) are turning what should be an epic boss battle event into a sad joke, how exactly does your solution help me? Are you suggesting we say “Please, high level characters, would you remove some of your gear so you’re all not ruining this event for lower level characters like me..” ? Because I’m seriously doubting that’s going to turn out the way you’re implying.

This is pretty much the problem with all the arguments above that are suggesting people can solve this problem themselves by donning worse equipment. You’re approaching this from a very limited view and not considering the fact that overpowered characters cutting through events like butter may be spoiling the fun for players attempting that same content with characters of the appropriate level.

It’s also pointless to debate whether or not characters should be scaled down in the first place. GW2 is built around this feature. If you don’t like it, there are other games out there that do this differently. All that matters, and the entire point of this thread, is that the feature be improved to work better. The intention of this mechanic is to keep content challenging for everyone involved regardless of who is participating. However, in reality that isn’t working very well and it could use tweaking. Whether you like the system or not to begin with is simply not relevant. It’s the equivalent of suggesting a bug should remain in place because you dislike the idea of it working correctly.

I think it would be really fun to have a system that could scale personal difficulty from lvl 1 (starter zone) to lvl 80 (Orr difficulty) within the same zone. Depending on the character’s level, mobs could have extra attacks that kick in at higher difficulties. I see this type of scaling in the fractals dungeon for high difficulties, but I really wish open world PvE had something similar.

Tulki.1458:

I think it’s fine as it is. If you felt just as weak in downscaled areas as you do in areas at your core level, the game wouldn’t have much of a sense of power progression. If I go back to an area that’s 40 levels lower, I don’t want to go around one-shotting everything but at the same time I do want to feel quite a bit stronger there than I was 40 levels ago. Besides, you only get about half the rewards from events. It’s nice since you can kind of choose the difficulty you want when you play and get appropriate bonuses. If everything was the same difficulty it would be super lame.

… not to mention there’s nothing stopping you from stripping your armour off and going commando if you want a challenge.

I was defending the idea but yeah, I gotta agree to this guy.

But even if we would agree downgrading is not an issue, it is still a shame that every area seems to be empty all of the time except for lv80 areas. There is an issue.

And well, I think low-lvl areas are much more fun cuz they have lots more of “kill variety”, group events and they have hearts. But feels stupid to play there other than by creating a new character.

Edge.4180:

Xolosheep.1649:

Downscale more? Then whats the point of getting better gear?

In this game, the point of getting better gear is to survive tougher challenges as your level increases and thus gain access to more areas of the game to play in. It is not so you can more easily lay waste to the opponents that are lower level than you. Games like World of Warcraft may be more in line with your expectations if you were hoping for the latter.

*I thought we were all aware that GW2 was supposed to depend more on skill than gear, but I guess that memo didn’t get out everywhere. *

[…]

To suggest that’s fine is ridiculous.

And this.

So I guess what we need in low level areas are proper rewards, interesting content and a downgrading that somehow “compresses” your gear and stats. I mean, those areas should be somewhat challenging but still let you grow more powerful a little. But two-shooting everything is lame.

Well, I just loved GW1 where every piece of gear was exactly the same, and the low level cap. We spent years and paid the most expensive prices only for titles and skins. That was fun. I don’t feel like it is fun with all this gear progression there is currently. I like the idea of skill better than grind and gear.

Mercucial.6759:

What level 5 zone are you going to that has anything even remotely worth it for a level 80?

All of them, it’s called playing with a friend. The way this game was designed (unless they are going back on that to) was for true down-scaling, one big reason was to sidekick with others, but we are too strong and it takes away from the friends enjoyment. It’s so simple. This was something that was different vs other mmo’s. It’s not supposed to be a face-roll, it’s not supposed to make you feel like you are getting stronger. It was to allow you to play all content in the game at any point and you have a leveled challenge. It’s so very simple, wanting it where you are mighty is lazy on our behalf, it wasn’t supposed to be like that.

Deathful Dante.1239:

Tulki.1458:

I think it’s fine as it is. If you felt just as weak in downscaled areas as you do in areas at your core level, the game wouldn’t have much of a sense of power progression. If I go back to an area that’s 40 levels lower, I don’t want to go around one-shotting everything but at the same time I do want to feel quite a bit stronger there than I was 40 levels ago. Besides, you only get about half the rewards from events. It’s nice since you can kind of choose the difficulty you want when you play and get appropriate bonuses. If everything was the same difficulty it would be super lame.

… not to mention there’s nothing stopping you from stripping your armour off and going commando if you want a challenge.

I was defending the idea but yeah, I gotta agree to this guy.

It becomes a mini-grief situation. I’ve noticed people don’t want to be around me when I’m down-scaling a lot as I go fro 100%. So I do agree and it can work in some situations to put on lower level armor/weapons, but not everyone will and can be used to grief some even unknowingly. Where if the system just down leveled more inline with true level, you take both micro-managing gear and a possible grief situation away.

It is one of those situations, where if it was just spot on to being with it wouldn’t be questioned and well you were told what is was doing. Now we feel power and don’t want to give it up.

Its good to feel powerful in low lvl zones. I dont want to die against low lvl and low reward monsters then pay lvl 80 fees for waypoint and repairs.

Horrorscope.7632:

Mercucial.6759:

What level 5 zone are you going to that has anything even remotely worth it for a level 80?

All of them, it’s called playing with a friend. The way this game was designed (unless they are going back on that to) was for true down-scaling, one big reason was to sidekick with others, but we are too strong and it takes away from the friends enjoyment. It’s so simple. This was something that was different vs other mmo’s. It’s not supposed to be a face-roll, it’s not supposed to make you feel like you are getting stronger. It was to allow you to play all content in the game at any point and you have a leveled challenge. It’s so very simple, wanting it where you are mighty is lazy on our behalf, it wasn’t supposed to be like that.

They said you will be downscaled but still feel stronger than a normal lvl X before release. Its fine as it is.

Play naked if you feel too powerful.

Columba.9730:

Play naked if you feel too powerful.

Others won’t, hence possible griefing.

Horrorscope.7632:

Mercucial.6759:

What level 5 zone are you going to that has anything even remotely worth it for a level 80?

All of them, it’s called playing with a friend. The way this game was designed (unless they are going back on that to) was for true down-scaling, one big reason was to sidekick with others, but we are too strong and it takes away from the friends enjoyment. It’s so simple. This was something that was different vs other mmo’s. It’s not supposed to be a face-roll, it’s not supposed to make you feel like you are getting stronger. It was to allow you to play all content in the game at any point and you have a leveled challenge. It’s so very simple, wanting it where you are mighty is lazy on our behalf, it wasn’t supposed to be like that.

You totally missed the point.

Columba.9730:

Play naked if you feel too powerful.

i play naked on my sylvari ranger,
for a few reasons:

1. sylvari do not look good in non-cultural armour.
2. it makes a good benchmark for determining the level of protection armour can give.
3. it makes combat more challenging.

so far, she looks great naked, her lack of armour makes little difference in combat, she still facerolls mobs at her level and below.

there is no issue with the downscaling. if u want it to be more diffcult turn up in blues or something jesus

And those areas starting to be empty due to people not going to them at 80 is because at lvl people dont wanna leave LA unless they really have to due to the LFG map channel and alot of people have completed the area so dont feel the need to revisit.

Mercucial.6759:

Horrorscope.7632:

Mercucial.6759:

What level 5 zone are you going to that has anything even remotely worth it for a level 80?

All of them, it’s called playing with a friend. The way this game was designed (unless they are going back on that to) was for true down-scaling, one big reason was to sidekick with others, but we are too strong and it takes away from the friends enjoyment. It’s so simple. This was something that was different vs other mmo’s. It’s not supposed to be a face-roll, it’s not supposed to make you feel like you are getting stronger. It was to allow you to play all content in the game at any point and you have a leveled challenge. It’s so very simple, wanting it where you are mighty is lazy on our behalf, it wasn’t supposed to be like that.

You totally missed the point.

I get your point, but looked at is a narrow. The reason I would go back would be to play with a friend. Nothing to do about farming for better stuff for my 80, yes people like me do exist.

Lutharr.1035:

there is no issue with the downscaling. if u want it to be more diffcult turn up in blues or something jesus

It’s really disheartening how many people waltz into this thread and offer this pointlessly flawed “solution” without thinking it through. As if nobody else was capable of coming up with this suggestion in seconds, or that it wasn’t promptly dismissed for legitimate reasons. I would honestly be too embarrassed to operate this way in any discussion.

Horrorscope.7632:

Mercucial.6759:

Horrorscope.7632:

Mercucial.6759:

What level 5 zone are you going to that has anything even remotely worth it for a level 80?

All of them, it’s called playing with a friend. The way this game was designed (unless they are going back on that to) was for true down-scaling, one big reason was to sidekick with others, but we are too strong and it takes away from the friends enjoyment. It’s so simple. This was something that was different vs other mmo’s. It’s not supposed to be a face-roll, it’s not supposed to make you feel like you are getting stronger. It was to allow you to play all content in the game at any point and you have a leveled challenge. It’s so very simple, wanting it where you are mighty is lazy on our behalf, it wasn’t supposed to be like that.

You totally missed the point.

I get your point, but looked at is a narrow. The reason I would go back would be to play with a friend. Nothing to do about farming for better stuff for my 80, yes people like me do exist.

So then play an alt……

Lutharr.1035:

Edge.4180:

Lutharr.1035:

there is no issue with the downscaling. if u want it to be more diffcult turn up in blues or something jesus

It’s really disheartening how many people waltz into this thread and offer this pointlessly flawed “solution” without thinking it through. As if nobody else was capable of coming up with this suggestion in seconds, or that it wasn’t promptly dismissed for legitimate reasons. I would honestly be too embarrassed to operate this way in any discussion.

You mean its pointless because you dont agree. id be embarrased to open my gob too if all that came out of it was waaaaaaa over pointless crap but hey if thats your thing then you go with it cupcake.

Well, if you had read the thread before joining the discussion (a practice everyone should do, in my opinion) you would have an explanation already. Your recommendation was made a number of times, and it was also explained why it solves nothing a number of times.

Edge.4180:

Lutharr.1035:

Edge.4180:

Lutharr.1035:

there is no issue with the downscaling. if u want it to be more diffcult turn up in blues or something jesus

It’s really disheartening how many people waltz into this thread and offer this pointlessly flawed “solution” without thinking it through. As if nobody else was capable of coming up with this suggestion in seconds, or that it wasn’t promptly dismissed for legitimate reasons. I would honestly be too embarrassed to operate this way in any discussion.

You mean its pointless because you dont agree. id be embarrased to open my gob too if all that came out of it was waaaaaaa over pointless crap but hey if thats your thing then you go with it cupcake.

Well, if you had read the thread before joining the discussion (a practice everyone should do, in my opinion) you would have an explanation already. Your recommendation was made a number of times, and it was also explained why it solves nothing a number of times.

and you complaining about soemthing that doesnt need fixing is helpful in what way? So you want the game changing for your wants and nevermind everyone else because yes. You are the whole player base and as such your word is gospel. Dont know how to break this to you. But your the very tiny, minicule, insignicant few that actually see a non issue as an actual problem. A problem you dont need to effect everyone else with.

People aint going to these areas because they have completed them or stuck in LA. Its got nothing to do with how the down scaling works.

Lutharr.1035:

and you complaining about soemthing that doesnt need fixing is helpful in what way? So you want the game changing for your wants and nevermind everyone else because yes. You are the whole player base and as such your word is gospel. Dont know how to break this to you. But your the very tiny, minicule, insignicant few that actually see a non issue as an actual problem. A problem you dont need to effect everyone else with.

People aint going to these areas because they have completed them or stuck in LA. Its got nothing to do with how the down scaling works.

This game is built around the level adjustment mechanic. And anyone who doesn’t want to play in a game designed around this particular mechanic has plenty of other MMOs to choose from.

Agreeing or disagreeing with the merits of the design doesn’t matter. What does matter is that it functions correctly, and right now it doesn’t seem like it is. High level characters are still too powerful when down-scaled – not because of any personal philosophy of individual players who think it’s necessary, but because results are simply not matching the intentions of the philosophies this game was built on.

• Skill is supposed to matter more than gear. That is a hard pill to swallow when a down-scaled level 80 character is easily two-shotting mobs in a level 10 event while a level 10 character is struggling to survive. Broken.

• Players are supposed to be happy, not frustrated, when other players show up. Explain that to the player of a low-level character trying to enjoy challenging content when a high-level character strides onto the same battlefield and starts turning a challenging event into a joke with his presence. Broken.

• A level 5 character fighting level 5 content has to work hard to earn rewards appropriate for his true level. That’s the concept of risk versus reward at work. And the whole reason we, as level 80’s, can go back to a level 5 encounter and earn rewards appropriate for our true level is because (in theory) down-scaling maintains the precious balance of risk versus reward. In reality, that balance looks very much out of whack when we’re both earning rewards appropriate for our level, but the level 5 characters has to work so much harder to do so. Broken.

When a mechanic is broken, you fix it. If you want to convince the developers to remove the mechanic altogether, feel free to start that topic in a thread of your own. Simply put, the intention of this game mechanism is to keep content challenging for everyone involved regardless of who is participating. However, in reality that isn’t working very well and it could use tweaking. Again, whether you like the system or not to begin with is simply not relevant. It’s the equivalent of suggesting a bug should remain in place because you dislike the idea of it working correctly.

alot of words when all ya needed was Im right, your wrong naaaaaaaaaaaa

YOU think its broken dont mean everyone else does. A few may agree but since its only a vocal FEW that feel its broken we all know ya wasting ya breath.

As for a lvl 5 needing to work hard to kill lvl 5 stuff. If thats the case its more l2p issues since world mobs are plain squishy as hell unless its a champion.

Lutharr.1035:

YOU think its broken dont mean everyone else does. A few may agree but since its only a vocal FEW that feel its broken we all know ya wasting ya breath.

When a game is heavily advertised to favor skill over gear, but gear differences are allowing one person to dominate compared to the other, how can you claim “working as intended” when that’s not the advertised intention? And I’m not talking about a case where one character is wearing junk that is not appropriate for his level, but instead about two characters wearing gear appropriate for their level but one of them being so much more powerful because the scaling mechanic that is meant to put them on roughly equal footing is failing to come reasonable close to that.

The developers love to discuss how every feature in their game is aimed at making you excited to have other players around (rather than dread their competitive presence). Whether it’s resource node sharing to events scaling according to population, you’re supposed to be happy when another player shows up. But the fun that many associate with challenging gameplay is easily ruined when someone (or a bunch of someones) enters an event and their overpowered nature turns that challenge into a cakewalk. Again, how can you claim “working as intended” when that’s not the advertised intention?

And, finally, the whole concept of us earning rewards that are appropriate for our actual level (even when we’re playing a max level character in a zone aimed at players half our level) is based on the idea that the precious balance of “risk versus reward” is being maintained. And yet, a max level character can decimate low level content so much more easily than someone of the appropriate level, and yet still earn rewards appropriate for his true level. Do I really need to explain why that’s broken? Because this is basic game balance I would think any MMO player would be familiar with.

Lutharr.1035:

As for a lvl 5 needing to work hard to kill lvl 5 stuff. If thats the case its more l2p issues since world mobs are plain squishy as hell unless its a champion.

He needs to work hard compared to a high level character in his situation, who can basically two-shot the same content.

And yet, the high level character is receiving better rewards for his actions.

What exactly are you afraid of here? That you’ll visit a level 20 zone on your level 80 character and find it nearly as challenging as the level 20 players playing around you? I hate to break it to you.. but that’s pretty much how it was supposed to work. And, no, that’s not an opinion. Maybe you’re just not familiar with the design (and that would certainly explain your point of view).

Edge.4180:

Lutharr.1035:

there is no issue with the downscaling. if u want it to be more diffcult turn up in blues or something jesus

It’s really disheartening how many people waltz into this thread and offer this pointlessly flawed “solution” without thinking it through. As if nobody else was capable of coming up with this suggestion in seconds, or that it wasn’t promptly dismissed for legitimate reasons. I would honestly be too embarrassed to operate this way in any discussion.

I dont believe that there is a problem in the first place. Go to lost shores if you want a challenge, lol.

If you personally feel too powerful, purposely kitten yourself. Don’t assume it’s the same for everyone else. How about that?