Guild Wars 2

Warning! GW1 spoilers.

I have been wanting to post this for a while and finally bit the bullet.

Having recently hit 100% map completion, done most of the dungeons, lots of WvW and a few PVP attempts, I feel Im entitled to say, " I have seen it all ".

Have I enjoyed all of it? Certainly, Guild Wars 2 is a great game. Would I buy the game again if I lost it somehow? Yes I would, no doubt.

But, I keep getting the feeling I’m missing something. The graphics and gameplay is very nicely done. Guild Wars 2 is not to be compared to any other MMO out there due to its unique, eh, non-existant ‘holy trinity’ aspect.

I played the original Guild Wars for god knows how many hours. Days and weeks on end, either solo or playing with various other people from around the globe. This game is so much different, and nearly impossible to compare to its predecessor. I’m gonna try either way.

I’m an emotional fella. No, I dont mean the type of person that reaches out for the tissue box when Tom and Lisa break up for the 6th time in some random ‘romantic’ soap. I like to think back about fun times, even those in other games, and in this case also GW1. The memories will always put a smile on my face.

Those memories. Opening a gazillion gates in Pre-searing Ascalon. The first time seeing Ascalon ruined after the searing. Losing my good ol’ buddy Rurik. Helping some really nice guy in the Ring of Fire mission sequence. Seeing Gwen become Mrs. Thackeray. I could ramble on and on but those are just a fraction of the bits that I still have in my mind about GW1.

When I think back about my first beta weekend in GW2, I dont feel the same emotions. It doesnt put a smile on my face. I think back about when the game was launched, and again, it doesnt put a smile on my face.

To me personally, Guild Wars 2 is emotionless. Am I the only one? I mean, the graphics are avid, the gameplay is very good, but I’m not feeling anything while playing the game.

I have seen it all, but not felt it all.

Was Guild Wars 1 your first of this type of game? Because you always remember the first game that touched you that deeply. For me it was Dungeon Master.

Strangely enough, no. But your right. I do have fond memories of lots of games played before GW1.

I think the problem is Guild Wars 2, for players like me anyway, is that I’m not as attached to my character as I am in other games. It’s that simple. There are a number of reasons for this.
One of them is not being able to repeat personal story instances…hmmmm.
Maybe I’ll go back and read that book of my personal stories. lol

Gw2 still has moments like these, although admittedly much less. Taking the Gwen example, I almost teared up when visiting her grave for the first time.
And Old Nic’s.

And Tybalt. I’ll never forget Tybalt.

Personally, I like what gw1 did with the whole white mantle/shining blade thing. [spoiler alert]

The fact that you helped the white mantle, only to realize that they were the bad guys all along, made you more emotionally invested and guilty as you knew that somehow you contributed to their cause. So the fight against them will be doubly important, not just to save the world, but to redeem yourself. I have forgotten about Stone Summits, Mursaats, even the Searing, but this piece of storyline stuck with me after how many years.

The problem with gw2’s story is that it does not give you the chance to be emotionally invested in your story/char/plot line. The most invested npc for me would be Tybalt (or your order partner). After that, once Trahearne takes over, it becomes less of a heroic story, and more of a military story (how will we get our troops to Orr, what tactic will we use, etc).

Some games that (for me) left a really lasting impression (and good storytelling) are Dragon age 1 (an argument could be made for 2) and the Mass Effect series (incidentally, made by the same company). Oh and the Final Fantasy 7/8/9.

I know what you mean, there was an extra “Umpfh” to it in GW1. The stories were deeper, and characters were built out a bit further.

On the other hand, I must say I liked Tybalt a lot as well. Tybalt was awesome. However, it would have been nice to see more of him, do quests with him and do some crazy stuff from time to time.

I’m currently liking Sieran a lot as well, she’s really likeable, very nice voice acting and script, too. I very much enjoy the condecsending tone in which Gixx talks to her. It’s very, very funny (he constantly insults her: “you blasted weed”, “you leaf-addled reprobate”, “you whomp-leaved lunatic”, “you pernicious petal-brain”). My mesmer is level 40 now (although I’m in the lvl 50 step now), I really hope Sieran doesn’t die at some point. She’s awesome. Nice way to level up while my legendary ranger is parked for the moment (which shouldn’t be a surprise after the recent gutting).

[quote=2299793;Vayne.8563:is that I’m not as attached to my character as I am in other games.[/quote]

im the same but ive played lots of games and currentily playing afew others besides gw2 like champion online and gw1 and im attached to what ive created in those games…

gw2 ill gladily throw them at a wall…respawn…repeat other games id be more protective and use tactics

i dont know why i feel this way got world complete on all 8 in gw2 so i got to know each char and create a backstory

if my account got wiped of the 8 id prob recreate 2
but only cause there good at killing in events/gathering in orr

ive always found in games the memories are built from the people (guild)around you
i dont really have fond memories of a mission but i do rember guild mates messing about in missions…dancing on your mates corpse after a battle for example

Yeah, it’s true. I can’t have a “feeling” with characters like Logan, Caithe etc etc. Otherwise with Gwen, Devona or also Rurik was Love

I fully agree with you. I was so super hyped up for GW2 because of my love for GW1. For the first time in my life i felt emotions while playing a game with GW1. After we, the Sunspears lost the battle vs. Kourna and ended up split up and beat. Fighting through, getting Koss back and then clearing that underground cave to make it our hideout. It was all mystical and very charming, i loved that cave. Then Vabbi came, which imo. is the best place ever created in any game. In GW2 there are lot’s of beautiful places and places to see, places i would love in GW1, but i don’t in GW2 because they are there, but they don’t stand for anything. Therefore, i hope we get back to Elona/Cantha soon.

It’s probably the game deepest flaw, in my opinion (but I’m loving the game mechanisms and world)

Lack of depth in story and characters, too much of a theme park feeling.

The world needs more conspiracy between nations, wars, betrayals…
Who knows, the Pact could explode in the future ?

But Aetherblades and Marjory’s story are a step in the right direction.

And the game is also too easy in PvE.
We need some very difficults hl areas like Underworld and Woe in gw1, to be completed with guildies.
It would be nice to see them make a come back in this game.

I would expect the type of ‘major event’ type of stuff in the first expansion. Right you know the world in and out, so if something happens (like the searing), if will affect you more now than if it happened only a few months after launch. I do think they need to use the living story to further enhance our relationships to the major NPCs, so when they are killed/kidnapped or betray us, we actually care more. I believe that are working towards that now.

For example, a plot line I would suggest: inspector kiel has been around for a bit now. Maybe after a few more living story ‘chapters’ working closely with her, she gets bumped off or something and we chase down the criminals to a new Sea of Sorrows map where we find an elder dragon at the bottom of the sea. Sets up nicely for an expansion this fall. just a possibility.

I think my main problem with the story was something to do with this:

Your working with these npc’s, learning a little about them, everyones total honorable, sacrificial to a tea for the greater good (almost a little too sacrificial most of the time), everyone is super super awesome and shiny and amazing people – no diversity, like everyone is the same with a different skin, backstory and voice (sometimes).

Then these faultless people suddenly all start bickering like little children because they think someones plan is stupid, or they had a squabble in the past and I’m like “eh, these characters are like 15yr old teens, all happy go lucky when they want to be but bit**y as hell”.

Every main character seems to be prone to this level of squabbling, characters who are in charge of armies and have earned their position should be capable of holding their emotions and understanding the “greater good”, yet they all cant get past their own issues and pettyness.

We needed more character depth, sacrifices should have meant something and not simply been cases of “ill hold the line, you go” (especially in the many situations that did not require sacrifice in the slightest). The assasins guild should be capable of holding their tongue around the other factions, there entire way of life is about subterfuge and deception, yet they cant even hold a poker face.

You know what i’m talking about tho, i’m just repeating myself now.

Thats my thoughts anyway.

I think one of the main things that causes less character attachment in this game as GW1 is the fact that we handpick less skills in this game. In GW1 you had the wohle bar to pick 1 by 1 so you picked every skill for a particular situation and knew when you wanted to use it. In GW2 you pick 1/2/3 weapons 1 heal 3 skills and an elite, but the weapons you pick pretty much determine your playstyle and often effect how you pick your other skills. This means that your doing a lot less picking skills to fit situations are much as you are to fit your build.

In order to grow fondef of your character in this game you have to scrap personal story from your mind and create a background, a your own story and personality, or else your character would be a pathetic wimp whose only occupatiin is to lick boots, especially Therelvxalchroshfiwhanne’s.

no holy trinity ? not true there is one : Guardian/Warrior/Mesmer

Yea, no one cares about Traehorne. How does one make the protaganist of a story a character that most readers/players dont care about or want to “root” for. This defy’s all literary techniques and definitions of a protagonist

Farming Flats.5370:

no holy trinity ? not true there is one : Guardian/Warrior/Mesmer

Must be a CoF farmer. -LOL

Must be a PvE’r***

It’s not just Traedjfjxibfksne, your character is a natural lackey. I just played humans, in your personal story you just switch masters. And besides being a lackey, you don’have any any trace of personality. Only thing that resembles a character’s personality is the dignity(lol)-charisma-ferocity… And we all know how much it influences the gameplay or your dialogue. Had to came up with a personality for my characters because they are otherwise painful to play as.

I think the problem is how clearly the entire “late game” was rushed out the door for release. The starting stories are mostly interesting, even if some can be quite…..stupid… (the whole “Grizwhirl” human story is laughable…). But at least they’re personal.

Once the orders kick in, you start to distance yourself more and more from the actual story you signed up for, entering this homogenized glob of “regardless of what you were or did before”. It takes all the weight from your personal story… As a human noble I enjoyed the “upper tier” parties, the political drama… As a human peasent I enjoyed the farms and the bandit fighting… As a charr I enjoyed getting my warband together, picking up “lost causes” and giving them a second chance to belong to something… As an asura I was a genius, an inventor…. etc, etc… Get to lvl 30 and everyone gives up their lives for the sake of joining these orders. It stings a bit when you invested something in your character.

But that one isn’t the worse. You get to choose your order, and your “mentor”, whichever of the 3, is the most interesting character you ever get to meet…

…Which is why it is a shame when they die so pathetically after a couple of missions. Seriously, I understand the idea was to have a “grand sacrifice” but… That is ridiculous… the way it was delivered is ludicrous…

And then it all goes south from there. Your “mentor” and your order are replaced by Trehearne and his pact. From this point on it is no longer your story. Trehearne is so flat as a character he could be portrayed perfectly be Kristen Stewart. And let me make a sidenote here that I hear a lot of people complain about Trehearne’s VA, but honestly I think he’s getting the short end of the stick here… He delivers the lines well enough, the dialogue and situations are just bloody uninteresting on their own.

We’re then carried through a relatively uninteresting assault on Orr, peppered by the most utterly idiotic “sacrifice for the greater cause!” suicidal morons I’ve seen in a game since WWII shooters with the AI that only knew “run forward”. I’m sorry but those deaths, once you get to Orr… They’re completely unjustified, at least in the way they’re delivered. I can’t have any sort of emotion for them besides “…kittening idiot…”. They’re not emotional losses, they’re Darwin Awards. Especially as most of those characters aren’t even known to most people except for the 1 or 2 you happened to work with on your personal story.

I know that at this point Destiny’s Edge is supposed to carry some of the emotional weight of the story, but that fails so utterly and completely because their story is… really kittening lame.

I can understand the break up.

I can understand their reticence in working with each other.

I can’t understand their behaving like 12 year old girls. I can’t understand their ridiculous plans, like Eir’s plan to reunite Logan and Rytlock by disturbing ancient ghosts and nearly killing herself because…. Some old human king had a sword similar to Rytlock’s… What the kitten kind of logic is that? This Norn woman that is a wise guide through your personal norn story turns out to be completely mental… I can’t justify Zojja turning from this intelligent if slight know it all mentor into this complete whiny prat I wanna hit with the nearest blunt object every. kittening. time. she opens her mouth. I can’t understand Caithe, in one of the worst heel turns since George Lucas “aborted” that thing that was the SW prequels, going “well, if this doesn’t work, kitten it! I’ll just be one of the bad guys(girls?)!”… Rytlock goes from “kitten strategist and mentor” into a whiny kitten… Logan regresses from “calm and collected” to “no one understands me!” teenager…

And ALL of this kitten because a few years before Logan decided to save the woman he loved, and the rest of the group said “Bah! We don’t need him!”, attacked a dragon anyways, and had a casualty because of it. Geniuses. All of them. And the fate of the world depends on these apparently… Yeah…

But worse than that, the absolute kitten nugget on the giant kitten that is the whole “pact” story is the ending. Victory or Death is the single most pathetic finale of any story ever. The boss fight is pathetic. Destiny’s Edge serve no purpose (you literally need them for absolutely nothing). The entire thing is an incredibly padded sight seeing tour, punctuated by another “I’LL SAVE YOU!” moment of absolute ridicule (Thanks Logan, there are 5 of us with bows, swords, magic and kitten… We can cut a rope without you).

The entire “pact” story needs to be redone. If nothing else, Arah story mode needs to be redone, to at least somewhat mitigate the entire fiasco by providing some sort of meaningless ending. Some sort of “it was all for this” moment. As it is the whole thing is such a waste of beautiful scenarios and that lovely music…

ProxyDamage.9826:

I think the problem is how clearly the entire “late game” was rushed out the door for release. The starting stories are mostly interesting, even if some can be quite…..stupid… (the whole “Grizwhirl” human story is laughable…). But at least they’re personal.

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The entire “pact” story needs to be redone. If nothing else, Arah story mode needs to be redone, to at least somewhat mitigate the entire fiasco by providing some sort of meaningless ending. Some sort of “it was all for this” moment. As it is the whole thing is such a waste of beautiful scenarios and that lovely music…

yeh looks like you were of the same opinion as me

Maybe because GW1 introduced us to places for the first time, and then those places were gone forever, it sat deeper with us.

See I never played the original Guild Wars but I hear so many good things about it. I can’t ever remember feeling too attached to any MMO toon in defence of GW2, maybe in LOTRO.

I think that was because I was able to build a little piece of my self in the world in the form of a house and kin house. These things ground my character in the world and give them some context.

You know what I always felt the same and I can’t put my finger on what it is. While it’s definitely FUN, i feel no connection whatsoever to it. The game always felt souless to me.

I think it has to do with the dumbed-down bland story or dialogues, (c’mon it’s embarrassing how bad it is, including living story) but no mmos have actually anything of worth in that regard, except for kotor maybe. And none of them felt entirely soul less like GW2 feels to me. It’s hard to find where or why it fails so miserably (at least to me) in that regard.

It’s like the game doesn’t take itself seriously. The game has nearly zero personality, like most of its characters but i’m not sure it’s the story. It’s like all the elements just don’t click well together.

—
By the way: I’ve run all stories up to trinity. I only noticed all mentors actually die after Tybalt died. The only char I actually remember the name because it had some sort of a personality, but mostly because of the “funny” effect. No surprise there if they never make a Thaskdjhhane plush backpack :P

I think that the kind of nostalgia you feel is due to one key factor, age.

You are talking about a game that came out almost 10 years ago, we aren’t now the person we were back then, we grew up, some of us see things for what they really are, just a game.

Back then in GW1, I was in college and had tons of free time to put into it, I have lots of memories from guild mates, but now, from that initial group only a handful ever play it, most are married, or full of debt to really care about playing the game.

most of our good memories come from the fact that our lives weren’t as complex then as they are now.
people grow up, things pass.
Right now if I barely even have time to play so yeah, GW1 rocked cause I had all the time in the world to play it…

Buttercup.5871:

I’m currently liking Sieran a lot as well, she’s really likeable, very nice voice acting and script, too. I very much enjoy the condecsending tone in which Gixx talks to her. It’s very, very funny (he constantly insults her: “you blasted weed”, “you leaf-addled reprobate”, “you whomp-leaved lunatic”, “you pernicious petal-brain”). My mesmer is level 40 now (although I’m in the lvl 50 step now), I really hope Sieran doesn’t die at some point. She’s awesome. Nice way to level up while my legendary ranger is parked for the moment (which shouldn’t be a surprise after the recent gutting).

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SIERAN! I just KNEW she was going to die, dammit! I wrote this just before the step she was going to die

FerrenoNL.7928:

I feel Im entitled to say

Stopped reading here…..

I’d say one of the reasons people related more to the GW1 story arcs was because you had the Missions to do as part of the story arcs. We don’t have that in GW2, we just have story instances and they can be done solo and only one time. If they’d made the Dungeons a Mandatory part of the storyline, then I think people would relate more to what is going on in each area; i.e Ascelon, Kryta, Maguma, etc.

Here are a few things that might make GW2 a game that makes you really care about your place in the world. Not in any particular order.

1. Player housing. Other games have done this and it is highly debatable as something that people want or not, but I fall on the side of it being a good thing that gives you a place of your own that you can decorate and put your mark on. Key word…decorate. It should have lots of furniture options. Anet can make some money from the diamond shop this way as well.

2. Standard questing. Dynamic events are great, but throw in some static quests here and there that have nothing to do with your personal story. Reward solid rewards for the quests. If it’s a long quest series, throw in a laurel or something. This can tie into the whole furniture housing thing too. Pet bird in a cage for doing a job for a pirate for example.

3. More armor appearances. Yeah, there are a few good ones out there, but after you have them? Maybe having more Karma vendor armor around the world with some different looks to it might help make people feel even more unique.

4. Mounts. Yes, I said it. Mounts. No one can convince me that no one in Tyria has figured out that is better to ride an animal than it is to walk. I get the whole “stop and smell the roses” argument from the hard working devs on this game, but mounts would be just one more thing that adds to individuality. They can figure out a way to implement this I’m sure.

those are just some of the additions I think would help this game and make people care just a little more about playing it.

You can feel nostalgia by visiting GW1 landmarks that exist in Tyria 250 years later.

Pockmark Flats searing crystal
Temple of the Ages
Divinity Coast being turned into Divinity’s Reach
Eye of the North
Black Citadel built on the ruins of Rin (can still see some of the ruins too)
Ashford Abbey
The Great Northern Wall
Nebo Terrace
Ascalon Settlement
Beetletun
Shaemoor (from the Divinity Coast mission)
The old Lion’s Arch lighthouse
Arbor Bay (the Grove is here)
Droknar’s Forge (or what is left of it)
Port Sledge
Talus Chute
Lornar’s Pass
Beacon’s Perch
Serenity Temple (it got destroyed by Dragonbrand)

There are more but I can’t think of them.

prenavo.3926:

Here are a few things that might make GW2 a game that makes you really care about your place in the world. Not in any particular order.

1. Player housing. Other games have done this and it is highly debatable as something that people want or not, but I fall on the side of it being a good thing that gives you a place of your own that you can decorate and put your mark on. Key word…decorate. It should have lots of furniture options. Anet can make some money from the diamond shop this way as well.

2. Standard questing. Dynamic events are great, but throw in some static quests here and there that have nothing to do with your personal story. Reward solid rewards for the quests. If it’s a long quest series, throw in a laurel or something. This can tie into the whole furniture housing thing too. Pet bird in a cage for doing a job for a pirate for example.

3. More armor appearances. Yeah, there are a few good ones out there, but after you have them? Maybe having more Karma vendor armor around the world with some different looks to it might help make people feel even more unique.

4. Mounts. Yes, I said it. Mounts. No one can convince me that no one in Tyria has figured out that is better to ride an animal than it is to walk. I get the whole “stop and smell the roses” argument from the hard working devs on this game, but mounts would be just one more thing that adds to individuality. They can figure out a way to implement this I’m sure.

those are just some of the additions I think would help this game and make people care just a little more about playing it.

This really doesn’t answer the OP since he’s talking about Guild Wars 1 and comparing it to Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 1 had no mounts, or player housing, so that can’t explain is difference.

And I don’t think anyone would say the standarized questing is what made Guild Wars 1 a great game either.

Don’t get me wrong, Im not making an attempt to turn GW2 into what GW1 was. They are entirely different games. But because of many of the relating elements between both I think you can still compare them up to a certain extend.

I was just trying to state how playing GW1 got me lots of good memories where as GW2 didnt touch me. Yes it was a lot of fun and I’ll certainly carry on playing, but what I played so far somehow didnt stick with me. Soulless. Emotionless. Whatever you want to call it. I simply wanted to know whether I was alone with this feeling.

FerrenoNL.7928:

But, I keep getting the feeling I’m missing something. The graphics and gameplay is very nicely done. Guild Wars 2 is not to be compared to any other MMO out there due to its unique, eh, non-existant ‘holy trinity’ aspect.

I played the original Guild Wars for god knows how many hours. Days and weeks on end, either solo or playing with various other people from around the globe. This game is so much different, and nearly impossible to compare to its predecessor. I’m gonna try either way.

You didn’t play the original Guild Wars for all those hours … you played the original game plus 3 expansions for all those hours.

The original Guild Wars, back when it wasn’t “prophecies” yet, was a 3 week game. Most people had quit by the 3 month mark. It was only with factions and nightfall that this game became the gem we all loved.

GW2 currently is in the same state as original Guild Wars before factions … a gem, but rough, unhewn. It’s a promise of great things to come.
The foundation is extremely solid, and this game is good. One day it’ll be great.

marnick.4305:

FerrenoNL.7928:

But, I keep getting the feeling I’m missing something. The graphics and gameplay is very nicely done. Guild Wars 2 is not to be compared to any other MMO out there due to its unique, eh, non-existant ‘holy trinity’ aspect.

I played the original Guild Wars for god knows how many hours. Days and weeks on end, either solo or playing with various other people from around the globe. This game is so much different, and nearly impossible to compare to its predecessor. I’m gonna try either way.

You didn’t play the original Guild Wars for all those hours … you played the original game plus 3 expansions for all those hours.

The original Guild Wars, back when it wasn’t “prophecies” yet, was a 3 week game. Most people had quit by the 3 month mark. It was only with factions and nightfall that this game became the gem we all loved.

GW2 currently is in the same state as original Guild Wars before factions … a gem, but rough, unhewn. It’s a promise of great things to come.
The foundation is extremely solid, and this game is good. One day it’ll be great.

Unless you were a die hard PvPer anyway. Most PvPers did quite not long after the game launched (months). PvE’ers came back for Factions and again for Nightfall, where the game really started taking off for PvE.

And yes, I know a lot of people thought Prophecies was the best of the games, but I thought it was paced awfully slowly in PvE for the majority of the player base. I know this because it was paced pretty good for me (and I’m slow lol).

GW1 had an emotional wrenching story. Characters died. Characters were introduced. Characters were bad. Characters were good.

CHARACTERS FOLLOWED YOUR LEAD, for the most part. Middle finger to Kormir here.

GW2 has… evil character. good character. one character dies, maybe two. you’re not the hero.

Yay…

Also, none of the stories are ever really finished. They leave you hanging and then it’s like “BUT WAIT, THE WORLD NEEDS YOU HELP, I’LL BE FINE!”

Esplen.3940:

GW1 had an emotional wrenching story. Characters died. Characters were introduced. Characters were bad. Characters were good.

CHARACTERS FOLLOWED YOUR LEAD, for the most part. Middle finger to Kormir here.

It was a good story, but Prophecies was horribly cliché at the same time. Factions had a rather short story, and imho not a very good one. The Kaineng quests in Factions were the real PVE. Nightfall had the best story imho. EotN had a horrible story that only meant to set the stage GW2.

Also, none of the stories are ever really finished. They leave you hanging and then it’s like “BUT WAIT, THE WORLD NEEDS YOU HELP, I’LL BE FINE!”

Especially for prophecies that was true. Shining Blade, Druids, fate of Ascalon, White Mantle, Dwarves … at the end of Prophecies you were really left scratching your head at WTF actually happened. The world was sure worse off with me than before with 2 nations plunged into civil war and one at the mercy of Charr and impending succession war.

Now that would look as if I didn’t like the story. Truth be told, I liked it a lot, especially Factions and Nightfall. However they wouldn’t have been bestsellers in bookform or movie, the saving grace being that Guild Wars 1 was the sole online RPG at it’s time to feature a story at all. And for that innovation, they did a pretty good job.

Story was a nice addition to the original game, however, I’m not really a lore player.
I remember first time I finished DoA after weeks of long Sunspear ang Lightbringer rank grinding – it was amazing, I can’t even find the words to describe it.
All the encounters in GW2 feels just … soulless.