Guild Wars 2

Was the ascended gear intended to be the answer to the players who wanted gear you had to work for … as opposed to the highly RNG based attempt at getting a legendary?

IF this tier ends up being the only one to bridge the gap between exotics and legendaries…. then i don’t think ill have much of a problem with it, since it will just be another thing to work for …

Stormleaf.1769:

Except it doesn’t have an item you require, it has an item you want. It has an item made specifically for going deeper and deeper into the dungeon you acquire it from. If you want an item made for an infinitely scaling dungeon that you don’t actually want to participate in, then that’s a problem with your own specific priorities. Not a problem with the game.

Mackdose.6504:

I’d say that the difference is negligible. Some folks have no issue playing the same thing over and over and having lots of fun. Some folks figure that any more than three runs is tedious, grindy, and not worth the trouble.

Villainizing people who like to play the same content for progression whether they are elitist or not over something you don’t find fun because you want the same items with none of the work is unfair.

Don’t like the gear grind? Don’t grind for gear. It’s not like it’s a race to BiS before the next content patch, there’s no prize at the end but the feeling of “I accomplished that.”

Quoting you both as you both make the same argument, essentially, and miss the same issue.

The issue is not with -current- content. No Ascended gear is required to finish every dungeon and kill every boss currently walking Tyria.

The issue is with -future- content. It was stated, when Ascended gear was announced, that Agony (and thus Agony resist) was something that would be involved in content going forward. It was not stated, one way or the other, if it would be required to even attempt future content, and it therefore becomes a simple question: grind Ascended and Agony resist now, so you are ready for the new content no matter what, or wait and see if it will be required, and hope that, if it is, enough other people waited that you can get groups to grind it out.

It is true that as of this moment in time, the grind heavy gear is not required to see any of the content in the game. But we don’t know when or if it will be, and Anet has not said one way or the other. A lot of folks saying it is required are basically taking the cautious path, assuming it will be and preparing for the worst.

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

players do have the choice to play the game in the way they want.

I want to play the game in a way that does not require me to grind for a new tier of gear and slot upgrades to replace what was previously the best available equipment. However, it seems I don’t have the choice to play the game that way anymore. Perhaps you could do something about that, please.

Derk.3189:

Stormleaf.1769:

kKagari.6804:

Erulogos.2591:

Mackdose.6504:

Where’s the gear grind? You mean playing the game? That’s grinding now? Sheesh.

You complain about gear you don’t want (or need) because playing the content the gear is needed for is a grind. You don’t need the gear because you’re not grinding (playing) it, but you’re upset it’s there because other people do want to play the content that requires it?

What’s your point again?

The difference between play and grind is in quantity. Having to run a dungeon a few times to get what you’re after is playing. Having to run said dungeon a few -dozen- times becomes more than a little grindy, at least as a lot of people see it.

When you repeat a dungeon for the umpteenth time because it has an item you require, you are not doing that dungeon for fun, you are grinding it for gain. THAT IS GEAR GRIND.

Except it doesn’t have an item you require, it has an item you want. It has an item made specifically for going deeper and deeper into the dungeon you acquire it from. If you want an item made for an infinitely scaling dungeon that you don’t actually want to participate in, then that’s a problem with your own specific priorities. Not a problem with the game.

Lol, that’s completely wrong. The items have about 15% better stats that will apply to every other aspect of the game save sPvP.

That doesn’t make it a requirement to anyone but children and elitists.

Leite.9475:

IF this tier ends up being the only one to bridge the gap between exotics and legendaries…. then i don’t think ill have much of a problem with it, since it will just be another thing to work for …

Why is adding one tier okay, while adding more aren’t? Also, you’ll not only have to replace your gear with ascended, but also lower rarity infusions with higher rarity ones in the future.
I’m just curious about the answer.

Mackdose.6504:

Derk.3189:

Stormleaf.1769:

kKagari.6804:

Erulogos.2591:

Mackdose.6504:

Where’s the gear grind? You mean playing the game? That’s grinding now? Sheesh.

You complain about gear you don’t want (or need) because playing the content the gear is needed for is a grind. You don’t need the gear because you’re not grinding (playing) it, but you’re upset it’s there because other people do want to play the content that requires it?

What’s your point again?

The difference between play and grind is in quantity. Having to run a dungeon a few times to get what you’re after is playing. Having to run said dungeon a few -dozen- times becomes more than a little grindy, at least as a lot of people see it.

When you repeat a dungeon for the umpteenth time because it has an item you require, you are not doing that dungeon for fun, you are grinding it for gain. THAT IS GEAR GRIND.

Except it doesn’t have an item you require, it has an item you want. It has an item made specifically for going deeper and deeper into the dungeon you acquire it from. If you want an item made for an infinitely scaling dungeon that you don’t actually want to participate in, then that’s a problem with your own specific priorities. Not a problem with the game.

Lol, that’s completely wrong. The items have about 15% better stats that will apply to every other aspect of the game save sPvP.

That doesn’t make it a requirement to anyone but children and elitists.

Cool, with that argument you can defend Arenanet to the death once they introduce Ascended gear on the gem store.

Mackdose.6504

And if players want the gear check so that they have a reason to keep going as far as they can in a specific game mode? Screw them right?

Please explain how having a gear check helps players do anything. Without gear checks you can do all the content. With gear checks some people can’t do all the content.

Seems to me if people want gear checks it is only so they can say “I’m better than you”.

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

This is something that existed prior to ascended gear, and was something that we saw happen all the time in GW1, even without any sort of gear progression. Some players, typically people who play the game a lot, tend to only want to play with other players that play like them. They require some sort of proof to get into their party, whether it be displaying your Lightbringer Title, equipping or linking some type of gear, or using some other method of showing that you have already done and are experienced with the content. While ascended gear might be the new excuse, this behavior happens regardless.

While this is not really something that we want to encourage, players do have the choice to play the game in the way they want. We can’t force those players to be all-inclusive in who they invite to the parties they create, and to be honest, doing so would probably make people even more unhappy than they are now, and lead to a lot of undesirable behavior.

Nice job commenting on the topic while deflecting the fact that you guys have instituted a gear treadmill/grind in a game where you clearly stated multiple times was not going to be a “grindy game”.

No seriously…nice work. Very impressive. Takes talent to deny such a massive elephant in the room.

Mackdose.6504:

Derk.3189:

Lol, that’s completely wrong. The items have about 15% better stats that will apply to every other aspect of the game save sPvP.

That doesn’t make it a requirement to anyone but children and elitists.

Yeah, sure, like in WvW. They removed the Orbs that gave exactly a 15% boost to the server with all Orbs, which was, in Anet view, “too much”.

And now magically this ascended crap hasn’t become a requirement? Lol.

Stormleaf.1769:

kKagari.6804:

Erulogos.2591:

Mackdose.6504:

Where’s the gear grind? You mean playing the game? That’s grinding now? Sheesh.

You complain about gear you don’t want (or need) because playing the content the gear is needed for is a grind. You don’t need the gear because you’re not grinding (playing) it, but you’re upset it’s there because other people do want to play the content that requires it?

What’s your point again?

The difference between play and grind is in quantity. Having to run a dungeon a few times to get what you’re after is playing. Having to run said dungeon a few -dozen- times becomes more than a little grindy, at least as a lot of people see it.

When you repeat a dungeon for the umpteenth time because it has an item you require, you are not doing that dungeon for fun, you are grinding it for gain. THAT IS GEAR GRIND.

Except it doesn’t have an item you require, it has an item you want. It has an item made specifically for going deeper and deeper into the dungeon you acquire it from. If you want an item made for an infinitely scaling dungeon that you don’t actually want to participate in, then that’s a problem with your own specific priorities. Not a problem with the game.

You also have to invest a good 70ish gold outside of the fractal stuff. So if I want to continue delving, I have to scrap together that gold or apparently get owned later on by agony. Besides, it goes against the plateaued pve gear concept they put forth, in which max strength gear is fairly easy to obtain.

Mackdose.6504:

That doesn’t make it a requirement to anyone but children and elitists.

Guess who is largely influencing PuG behavior in these high end scenarios. SC Guilds, elitists with cookiecutter builds, who openly demand in map chat that party members need to have X,Y and Z to be able to join them. Normal players look at them and imitate them, because they think that if they do so they will get people that will make the dungeon run easier, faster and safer. On average, that’s actually the case.

Don’t discount the influence elitist loudmouths have. They usually are the catalyst for a meta change, and their dominant behavior in game has others look up to them.

Quit frankly we should be able to inspect other players at the least. What would result would be gear checks before harder difficulty dungeons like Fractals. But honestly, this isnt necessarily bad thing. The cheapest way to get exotics is dungeon grinding, which if you want the same set look, means you will grind the SAME dungeon several times. Quite frankly, I almost fall asleep every time I run TA exp nowadays. The chest drops are AWFUL and there are no surprises when it comes to loot drops.

Coming from games like World of Warcraft, I can honestly say they actually made gearing in dungeons and then in raids feel progressive and more satisfying. You could collect dungeon/raid tokens while also getting a chance for epics to drop from each boss. Honestly I would not be opposed to seeing GW2 dungeons getting a loot table with a party loot system implemented. In addition I think dungeons should give generic tokens that you can buy any dungeon piece with. This way you are not forced to grind the same dungeon OVER and OVER. Only boss that matters is the end boss in dungeons just to get the tokens. Sorry but this is not engaging and not fun when it comes to gearing your character.

Erulogos.2591:

Quoting you both as you both make the same argument, essentially, and miss the same issue.

The issue is not with -current- content. No Ascended gear is required to finish every dungeon and kill every boss currently walking Tyria.

The issue is with -future- content. It was stated, when Ascended gear was announced, that Agony (and thus Agony resist) was something that would be involved in content going forward. It was not stated, one way or the other, if it would be required to even attempt future content, and it therefore becomes a simple question: grind Ascended and Agony resist now, so you are ready for the new content no matter what, or wait and see if it will be required, and hope that, if it is, enough other people waited that you can get groups to grind it out.

It is true that as of this moment in time, the grind heavy gear is not required to see any of the content in the game. But we don’t know when or if it will be, and Anet has not said one way or the other. A lot of folks saying it is required are basically taking the cautious path, assuming it will be and preparing for the worst.

The issue with this is that ArenaNet could have easily made this content require Agony resistance from the beginning as well, by making it some Mystic Forge thing and introducing Agony at fractal level 1. They didn’t; heck, they even made it so low levels can participate. Exotics aren’t even a requirement for the early difficulty levels. If they didn’t do it now, why do you think they’re magically going to start doing it in the future? None of the content in GW2 has been restricted like that. There is zero indication of ArenaNet ever restricting content like that, and it’s simply not helpful to base your argument on an assumption that they’ll magically start doing it.

Mackdose.6504:

I like the combat in this game better than Premier Themepark MMO™, and I like scaling difficulty requiring trophy gear to progress. It’s not like the whole game is focused on the vertical progression of an elite few, no matter how hard you pretend that’s how it is.

I thought the exotic race was a little short, and I’m glad there’s more to the endgame now. If it keeps scaling up every few months to a new tier, I’ll start complaining about a skinner-box treadmill, but I have faith in Anet.

Well as of now it definitely affects the whole game, because BiS gear is now available exclusively through a single dungeon. If Ascendent stays top tier, and they introduce ways to acquire it from WvW though, I don’t have a problem with it.

My problem is that I like dungeon running, and I’m disappointed that this is the direction ANet is taking with their dungeon content. Resistance stacking is such a tired, old failure of a mechanic. It’s funny to see the grind-boys in here defending such a lackluster addition to the game.

AmBoSS.7129:

Hi there.

First of all, i want to point out that that i’m not beeing sarcastic here. And second, I am sorry for my bad english, i am no native speaker.

I played GW1 for a very long time, and i really loved the game, PvE and PvP.
One of the most fascinating things about this game was the lack of geargrinding. You hit max. Level and you can buy the best armor and weapons for almost nothing. That was fantastic.

The thing is, it is different for GW 2 now. In GW1, i would never ask anybody if he is good at the game or what kind of equipment he uses, because it doesn’t really matter. I would help him, and we would work together to finish the dungeon or whatever, because i knew one thing: There is no better equipment, he/she just needs some advice or help in playing the game.

But now, with Guild Wars 2, it causes me problems. When I team up with a group of players to do, for example, the Fractals of the Mists, I really wish for all of those players in my group to have exotic gear. I hate myself for thinking that way, but the difference in stats means that we could (possibly) finish the dungeon faster.

On the other hand, with non-exotic-equipped players, I feel like…those people could waste my time. Because we die more often. And I have to repair my equip more often etc.

I have not started to ask my party to link me their equipment or anything like that yet, but I think, on higher Levels in the Fractals, i would start doing so.

Sure, I could just go in and whipe a few times and have fun, but still…beating a dungeon faster is more fun that dying a lot of times, for me at least.

What do you think about that? I don’t want to do that, but I feel like I am forced to check out my partymembers right now, because of this whole difference in gear.

AmBoSS

Stormleaf.1769:

Erulogos.2591:

Quoting you both as you both make the same argument, essentially, and miss the same issue.

The issue is not with -current- content. No Ascended gear is required to finish every dungeon and kill every boss currently walking Tyria.

The issue is with -future- content. It was stated, when Ascended gear was announced, that Agony (and thus Agony resist) was something that would be involved in content going forward. It was not stated, one way or the other, if it would be required to even attempt future content, and it therefore becomes a simple question: grind Ascended and Agony resist now, so you are ready for the new content no matter what, or wait and see if it will be required, and hope that, if it is, enough other people waited that you can get groups to grind it out.

It is true that as of this moment in time, the grind heavy gear is not required to see any of the content in the game. But we don’t know when or if it will be, and Anet has not said one way or the other. A lot of folks saying it is required are basically taking the cautious path, assuming it will be and preparing for the worst.

The issue with this is that ArenaNet could have easily made this content require Agony resistance from the beginning as well, by making it some Mystic Forge thing and introducing Agony at fractal level 1. They didn’t; heck, they even made it so low levels can participate. Exotics aren’t even a requirement for the early difficulty levels. If they didn’t do it now, why do you think they’re magically going to start doing it in the future? None of the content in GW2 has been restricted like that. There is zero indication of ArenaNet ever restricting content like that, and it’s simply not helpful to base your argument on an assumption that they’ll magically start doing it.

AHHAHA You really think they did that for the players? Its just there to draw out the content, an additional carrot on another stick. Oh you want to see what agony is like? Hit me up 10 levels.

nothing wrong with expecting people to be geared and know what going on for the end game or close to end game/hi level content. doesnt mean youre an elitest or rude or anything negative, just means you dont feel like dieng alot or wasteing alot of time. I mean isnt that the point of not haveing a tank healer dps set up… the whole team has to pull there weight and know whats going on? if i wasnt geared for an instance or dungeon I hope to be informed of such lol

Derk.3189:

Stormleaf.1769:

Erulogos.2591:

Quoting you both as you both make the same argument, essentially, and miss the same issue.

The issue is not with -current- content. No Ascended gear is required to finish every dungeon and kill every boss currently walking Tyria.

The issue is with -future- content. It was stated, when Ascended gear was announced, that Agony (and thus Agony resist) was something that would be involved in content going forward. It was not stated, one way or the other, if it would be required to even attempt future content, and it therefore becomes a simple question: grind Ascended and Agony resist now, so you are ready for the new content no matter what, or wait and see if it will be required, and hope that, if it is, enough other people waited that you can get groups to grind it out.

It is true that as of this moment in time, the grind heavy gear is not required to see any of the content in the game. But we don’t know when or if it will be, and Anet has not said one way or the other. A lot of folks saying it is required are basically taking the cautious path, assuming it will be and preparing for the worst.

The issue with this is that ArenaNet could have easily made this content require Agony resistance from the beginning as well, by making it some Mystic Forge thing and introducing Agony at fractal level 1. They didn’t; heck, they even made it so low levels can participate. Exotics aren’t even a requirement for the early difficulty levels. If they didn’t do it now, why do you think they’re magically going to start doing it in the future? None of the content in GW2 has been restricted like that. There is zero indication of ArenaNet ever restricting content like that, and it’s simply not helpful to base your argument on an assumption that they’ll magically start doing it.

AHHAHA You really think they did that for the players? Its just there to draw out the content, an additional carrot on another stick. Oh you want to see what agony is like? Hit me up 10 levels.

I’m pretty sure letting players experience content rather than restricting them from it is done for the players, yes.

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

players do have the choice to play the game in the way they want.

I want to play the game in a way that does not require me to grind for a new tier of gear and slot upgrades to replace what was previously the best available equipment. However, it seems I don’t have the choice to play the game that way anymore. Perhaps you could do something about that, please.

Game doesnt require you to grind for new tier of gear Ascended rings which drops in FoTM are random stats, I ve just got ring without power and kinda useless for me and I only equip it in FoTM. .

So no one else is forcing you to grind for the best gear possible. Only YOURSELF. There are thousands of players who dont care about best gear or ascended gear.

I am Elitist/HC players and I play 8+ hours a day and I dont care about ascended gear nearly as much as you guys.. But YOU guys here, its like only thing you care is Ascended gear and how you MUST HAVE IT. Even when you claim you dont want it here.

You are all just making too much fuss about something that is trivial. This Ascended gear is usually only usefull in dungeons. And I know it better than you, Cause i already have Ascended gear in my inventory.

Stormleaf.1769:

The issue with this is that ArenaNet could have easily made this content require Agony resistance from the beginning as well, by making it some Mystic Forge thing and introducing Agony at fractal level 1. They didn’t; heck, they even made it so low levels can participate. Exotics aren’t even a requirement for the early difficulty levels. If they didn’t do it now, why do you think they’re magically going to start doing it in the future? None of the content in GW2 has been restricted like that. There is zero indication of ArenaNet ever restricting content like that, and it’s simply not helpful to base your argument on an assumption that they’ll magically start doing it.

They may do it in the future due to painting themselves into a corner via power creep. Once folks have half a set of Ascended gear with a nice glob of Agony resist, the only way to make future content challenging for -them- is to tune it taking their level of gear into account. Once they have a full set of Ascended, they’ll likely faceroll their way past anything tuned for folks in rares.

This all, by the way, is setting aside issues in WvW, or issues with finding groups for older dungeons for folks who leveled slowly, leveled alts, or just want cosmetic skins.

Stormleaf.1769:

Derk.3189:

Stormleaf.1769:

Erulogos.2591:

Quoting you both as you both make the same argument, essentially, and miss the same issue.

The issue is not with -current- content. No Ascended gear is required to finish every dungeon and kill every boss currently walking Tyria.

The issue is with -future- content. It was stated, when Ascended gear was announced, that Agony (and thus Agony resist) was something that would be involved in content going forward. It was not stated, one way or the other, if it would be required to even attempt future content, and it therefore becomes a simple question: grind Ascended and Agony resist now, so you are ready for the new content no matter what, or wait and see if it will be required, and hope that, if it is, enough other people waited that you can get groups to grind it out.

It is true that as of this moment in time, the grind heavy gear is not required to see any of the content in the game. But we don’t know when or if it will be, and Anet has not said one way or the other. A lot of folks saying it is required are basically taking the cautious path, assuming it will be and preparing for the worst.

The issue with this is that ArenaNet could have easily made this content require Agony resistance from the beginning as well, by making it some Mystic Forge thing and introducing Agony at fractal level 1. They didn’t; heck, they even made it so low levels can participate. Exotics aren’t even a requirement for the early difficulty levels. If they didn’t do it now, why do you think they’re magically going to start doing it in the future? None of the content in GW2 has been restricted like that. There is zero indication of ArenaNet ever restricting content like that, and it’s simply not helpful to base your argument on an assumption that they’ll magically start doing it.

AHHAHA You really think they did that for the players? Its just there to draw out the content, an additional carrot on another stick. Oh you want to see what agony is like? Hit me up 10 levels.

I’m pretty sure letting players experience content rather than restricting them from it is done for the players, yes.

They gave you 10 levels without agony so you they can extend the same kitten content for longer. The byproduct of this is so that its friendly to casuals. Don’t believe everything you hear from their blog posts. If they cared about not restricting content they wouldn’t restrict it at all.

Giving higher-stat gear so that you can face higher-stat enemies isn’t introducing true difficulty or progression into the game. It’s little more than an illusion.

If you want more challenging content, just make it more difficult without increasing character stats. This means players will have to actually increase their skill level in order to defeat the challenge. Grinding to get better gear to defeat the challenge is not an indicator of skill, it is an indicator of time spent.

Mackdose.6504:

I fail to see why this is an Anet issue, you can’t blame the company for kitten players. And you can’t say it’s ANet enforcing the attitude, you’re just projecting.

If there are so many people who are worried about being “left behind” (whatever that means) wouldn’t all the “left behind” people be such a high number as to not matter?

All of the “left behind” casuals (like myself) can find each other to complete the content, right? I mean, hardcore players are so few in this game (according to the forums) it’s completely bonkers to assume that if you don’t grind every day you’ll never find a group.

Yeah…. I have a hole guild full of casuals like this…. we enjoy are time in the game nod and we still win

Derk.3189:

Stormleaf.1769:

Derk.3189:

Stormleaf.1769:

Erulogos.2591:

Quoting you both as you both make the same argument, essentially, and miss the same issue.

The issue is not with -current- content. No Ascended gear is required to finish every dungeon and kill every boss currently walking Tyria.

The issue is with -future- content. It was stated, when Ascended gear was announced, that Agony (and thus Agony resist) was something that would be involved in content going forward. It was not stated, one way or the other, if it would be required to even attempt future content, and it therefore becomes a simple question: grind Ascended and Agony resist now, so you are ready for the new content no matter what, or wait and see if it will be required, and hope that, if it is, enough other people waited that you can get groups to grind it out.

It is true that as of this moment in time, the grind heavy gear is not required to see any of the content in the game. But we don’t know when or if it will be, and Anet has not said one way or the other. A lot of folks saying it is required are basically taking the cautious path, assuming it will be and preparing for the worst.

The issue with this is that ArenaNet could have easily made this content require Agony resistance from the beginning as well, by making it some Mystic Forge thing and introducing Agony at fractal level 1. They didn’t; heck, they even made it so low levels can participate. Exotics aren’t even a requirement for the early difficulty levels. If they didn’t do it now, why do you think they’re magically going to start doing it in the future? None of the content in GW2 has been restricted like that. There is zero indication of ArenaNet ever restricting content like that, and it’s simply not helpful to base your argument on an assumption that they’ll magically start doing it.

AHHAHA You really think they did that for the players? Its just there to draw out the content, an additional carrot on another stick. Oh you want to see what agony is like? Hit me up 10 levels.

the problem with that argument is that Anet wants to make sale’s this kinda “restricted” content is actualy what most people want and what keeps them playing

NOT the other way around. when people dont feel like theres any other way to “get stronger” thay dont come back

I’m pretty sure letting players experience content rather than restricting them from it is done for the players, yes.

They gave you 10 levels without agony so you they can extend the same kitten content for longer. The byproduct of this is so that its friendly to casuals. Don’t believe everything you hear from their blog posts. If they cared about not restricting content they wouldn’t restrict it at all.

Well White did state that the ascended gear was to prepare us for future content soo evetually u will have to get those gear regardless if you like it or not if you want to the new content. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

Derk.3189:

Stormleaf.1769:

Derk.3189:

AHHAHA You really think they did that for the players? Its just there to draw out the content, an additional carrot on another stick. Oh you want to see what agony is like? Hit me up 10 levels.

I’m pretty sure letting players experience content rather than restricting them from it is done for the players, yes.

They gave you 10 levels without agony so you they can extend the same kitten content for longer. The byproduct of this is so that its friendly to casuals. Don’t believe everything you hear from their blog posts. If they cared about not restricting content they wouldn’t restrict it at all.

Are you joking? So what you’re saying is that they should have only made one difficulty level that required full agony resistance? Because extending content infinitely is bad? Being friendly to casuals is not a “byproduct”, it is a design choice. Give ArenaNet the credit it’s due instead of saying that everything they do, no matter how they do it, is bad and restrictive and greedy and selfish and unfair and all those other transparent insults people keep throwing at them.

It’s impossible to not restrict content for someone, by the way. Heck, even a game as simple as Pong is restrictive to people with poor coordination. You’re not advocating a game, you’re advocating… I don’t know, a movie or something.

I don’t see what the problem is here, the game needs something like this or it just becomes boring. A few daily’s and monthly jugs along with a few hours in Orr will net you an easy exotic set at no cost but a little time. Best thing to do is get this Orr set as a defensive set and use it as your dungeon set, then farm dungeons with this set to go for your DPS PvP set. You can get a max exotic weapon from the TP for like 2-3 gold to start off.

This whole direction Guildwars 2 has gone has left a sour feeling in my mouth and sick to my stomach, how can such a great franchise go rotten so fast?

The whole thing makes me want to drop this game like a hot potato and move on, who ever decided this was a great idea for Guildwars 2 need to be removed from the Company asap…

I really cant see why anyone would bother with Guildwars 2 treadmill when WoW treadmill works better…

I just cannot believe what i’m seeing..

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

Derk.3189:

Stormleaf.1769:

Erulogos.2591:

Quoting you both as you both make the same argument, essentially, and miss the same issue.

The issue is not with -current- content. No Ascended gear is required to finish every dungeon and kill every boss currently walking Tyria.

The issue is with -future- content. It was stated, when Ascended gear was announced, that Agony (and thus Agony resist) was something that would be involved in content going forward. It was not stated, one way or the other, if it would be required to even attempt future content, and it therefore becomes a simple question: grind Ascended and Agony resist now, so you are ready for the new content no matter what, or wait and see if it will be required, and hope that, if it is, enough other people waited that you can get groups to grind it out.

It is true that as of this moment in time, the grind heavy gear is not required to see any of the content in the game. But we don’t know when or if it will be, and Anet has not said one way or the other. A lot of folks saying it is required are basically taking the cautious path, assuming it will be and preparing for the worst.

The issue with this is that ArenaNet could have easily made this content require Agony resistance from the beginning as well, by making it some Mystic Forge thing and introducing Agony at fractal level 1. They didn’t; heck, they even made it so low levels can participate. Exotics aren’t even a requirement for the early difficulty levels. If they didn’t do it now, why do you think they’re magically going to start doing it in the future? None of the content in GW2 has been restricted like that. There is zero indication of ArenaNet ever restricting content like that, and it’s simply not helpful to base your argument on an assumption that they’ll magically start doing it.

AHHAHA You really think they did that for the players? Its just there to draw out the content, an additional carrot on another stick. Oh you want to see what agony is like? Hit me up 10 levels.

The Agony mechanic wasn’t introduced at the start of the dungeon so that everybody can experience the content. While one of the goals of the Fractals of the Mists dungeon was to provide some difficult content for players looking for a challenge, we also wanted the dungeon to be available for everybody to experience. While getting far into the dungeon requires agony resistance from ascended gear, the content was designed to provide challenging content, and to allow players to choose what difficulty they wanted to play at.

As for ascended gear, to reiterate what Chris has said (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside), it’s not intended as a treadmill, but rather as a tier of rewards that can help bridge the gap between Exotics (a few hours of effort to acquire a piece) and Legendaries (hundreds of hours of effort to acquire one). They’re currently only available in the Fractals of the Mist Dungeon, but we’re going to be adding new ways to acquire them, both inside of WvW as well as elsewhere in PvE.

I won’t bother with exotics when I know there’s a higher tier available. All it does is make me work more before I can go enjoy skin hunting. Woop de kittening do.

i’m seeing dropped/crafted exotic gear price dropping in TP… good good….

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

Derk.3189:

Stormleaf.1769:

Erulogos.2591:

Quoting you both as you both make the same argument, essentially, and miss the same issue.

The issue is not with -current- content. No Ascended gear is required to finish every dungeon and kill every boss currently walking Tyria.

The issue is with -future- content. It was stated, when Ascended gear was announced, that Agony (and thus Agony resist) was something that would be involved in content going forward. It was not stated, one way or the other, if it would be required to even attempt future content, and it therefore becomes a simple question: grind Ascended and Agony resist now, so you are ready for the new content no matter what, or wait and see if it will be required, and hope that, if it is, enough other people waited that you can get groups to grind it out.

It is true that as of this moment in time, the grind heavy gear is not required to see any of the content in the game. But we don’t know when or if it will be, and Anet has not said one way or the other. A lot of folks saying it is required are basically taking the cautious path, assuming it will be and preparing for the worst.

The issue with this is that ArenaNet could have easily made this content require Agony resistance from the beginning as well, by making it some Mystic Forge thing and introducing Agony at fractal level 1. They didn’t; heck, they even made it so low levels can participate. Exotics aren’t even a requirement for the early difficulty levels. If they didn’t do it now, why do you think they’re magically going to start doing it in the future? None of the content in GW2 has been restricted like that. There is zero indication of ArenaNet ever restricting content like that, and it’s simply not helpful to base your argument on an assumption that they’ll magically start doing it.

AHHAHA You really think they did that for the players? Its just there to draw out the content, an additional carrot on another stick. Oh you want to see what agony is like? Hit me up 10 levels.

The Agony mechanic wasn’t introduced at the start of the dungeon so that everybody can experience the content. While one of the goals of the Fractals of the Mists dungeon was to provide some difficult content for players looking for a challenge, we also wanted the dungeon to be available for everybody to experience. While getting far into the dungeon requires agony resistance from ascended gear, the content was designed to provide challenging content, and to allow players to choose what difficulty they wanted to play at.

As for ascended gear, to reiterate what Chris has said (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside), it’s not intended as a treadmill, but rather as a tier of rewards that can help bridge the gap between Exotics (a few hours of effort to acquire a piece) and Legendaries (hundreds of hours of effort to acquire one). They’re currently only available in the Fractals of the Mist Dungeon, but we’re going to be adding new ways to acquire them, both inside of WvW as well as elsewhere in PvE.

Can we stop reiterating the PR spin story, please? I’m not the only one on this forum that sees that article for what it is. Its like you’re handing me an orange, then telling me its not an orange. I’m not sure if you’ve noticed a 10000+ post topic in this very forum that deals with the issues of the implementation of ascended gear, and how not only has it created a gap where one wasn’t present before, it completely obliterates your own manifesto.

How does ascended gear bridge this new gap btw? Can they be used to create the legendary weapons? Nope. But if they COULD, I might buy your story. Currently, getting ascended gear and getting legendary weapons require completely different efforts. This is as much as a bridge as a fork in the road going completely in another direction.

Mackdose.6504:

Tempest.1254:

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

This is something that existed prior to ascended gear, and was something that we saw happen all the time in GW1, even without any sort of gear progression. Some players, typically people who play the game a lot, tend to only want to play with other players that play like them. They require some sort of proof to get into their party, whether it be displaying your Lightbringer Title, equipping or linking some type of gear, or using some other method of showing that you have already done and are experienced with the content. While ascended gear might be the new excuse, this behavior happens regardless.

While this is not really something that we want to encourage, players do have the choice to play the game in the way they want. We can’t force those players to be all-inclusive in who they invite to the parties they create, and to be honest, doing so would probably make people even more unhappy than they are now, and lead to a lot of undesirable behavior.

Yes, but deliberately adding a gear check to the game isn’t the same as me deciding not to party with something because I’ve decided they’re not experienced. It has to do with why and how a player is included or excluded from playing with others.

If I do it, it’s one thing. If the developer does it, that’s something else entirely.

And if players want the gear check so that they have a reason to keep going as far as they can in a specific game mode? Screw them right?

Yes. I don’t feel sympathy for people who didn’t play Guild Wars or read ArenaNet’s design manifesto.

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

This is something that existed prior to ascended gear, and was something that we saw happen all the time in GW1, even without any sort of gear progression. Some players, typically people who play the game a lot, tend to only want to play with other players that play like them. They require some sort of proof to get into their party, whether it be displaying your Lightbringer Title, equipping or linking some type of gear, or using some other method of showing that you have already done and are experienced with the content. While ascended gear might be the new excuse, this behavior happens regardless.

While this is not really something that we want to encourage, players do have the choice to play the game in the way they want. We can’t force those players to be all-inclusive in who they invite to the parties they create, and to be honest, doing so would probably make people even more unhappy than they are now, and lead to a lot of undesirable behavior.

Like others have said, there is a very large difference between exclusion because the content is challenging and requires higher than average skill and exclusion because of gear and other gating mechanisms. The former can be taught or demonstrated to a new player in short order. The latter being one of the major downsides of the hamster wheel model and the aspect this system seems to aspire to the most.

But here’s a question, what of those of us who want real challenge out of endgame content without the lazy gear checks and gating mechanisms? You know, content with the core concepts that were actually revolutionary and inspired in GW. GW2 had a chance to show the industry and players that these concepts were not only viable but made for an even more fun and rewarding endgame, yet it lacked them (and still does) on a very basic level.

ASB.4295:

I won’t bother with exotics when I know there’s a higher tier available. All it does is make me work more before I can go enjoy skin hunting. Woop de kittening do.

So are you not using any weapons at all because legendaries exist? Before ascended, did you not use any normal/fine/masterwork/rare gear because exotics existed? Please, stop spouting nonsense.

LoreChief.8391:

Tempest.1254:

Yes, but deliberately adding a gear check to the game isn’t the same as me deciding not to party with something because I’ve decided they’re not experienced.

So instead of players being kitten waving elitists, which was bad for the community as a whole, you’re lampooning them for coming up with a legitimate end-all system?

The beauty of the ascended crafting system (which btw only applies to fractals) is that you can’t judge a player to be unworthy of your group for certain tiers of the dungeon if they’ve already met the requirement for it. It takes the power of being a jerk out of the hands of players that would abuse it, and gives it to the creators where they can be selflessly martyred by their own player base. They are not the hero we deserve, but they are the one we need.

Well, considering the game was marketed as having horizontal progression, then yes, there shouldn’t be vertical progression and gear checks.

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

Derk.3189:

Stormleaf.1769:

Erulogos.2591:

Quoting you both as you both make the same argument, essentially, and miss the same issue.

The issue is not with -current- content. No Ascended gear is required to finish every dungeon and kill every boss currently walking Tyria.

The issue is with -future- content. It was stated, when Ascended gear was announced, that Agony (and thus Agony resist) was something that would be involved in content going forward. It was not stated, one way or the other, if it would be required to even attempt future content, and it therefore becomes a simple question: grind Ascended and Agony resist now, so you are ready for the new content no matter what, or wait and see if it will be required, and hope that, if it is, enough other people waited that you can get groups to grind it out.

It is true that as of this moment in time, the grind heavy gear is not required to see any of the content in the game. But we don’t know when or if it will be, and Anet has not said one way or the other. A lot of folks saying it is required are basically taking the cautious path, assuming it will be and preparing for the worst.

The issue with this is that ArenaNet could have easily made this content require Agony resistance from the beginning as well, by making it some Mystic Forge thing and introducing Agony at fractal level 1. They didn’t; heck, they even made it so low levels can participate. Exotics aren’t even a requirement for the early difficulty levels. If they didn’t do it now, why do you think they’re magically going to start doing it in the future? None of the content in GW2 has been restricted like that. There is zero indication of ArenaNet ever restricting content like that, and it’s simply not helpful to base your argument on an assumption that they’ll magically start doing it.

AHHAHA You really think they did that for the players? Its just there to draw out the content, an additional carrot on another stick. Oh you want to see what agony is like? Hit me up 10 levels.

The Agony mechanic wasn’t introduced at the start of the dungeon so that everybody can experience the content. While one of the goals of the Fractals of the Mists dungeon was to provide some difficult content for players looking for a challenge, we also wanted the dungeon to be available for everybody to experience. While getting far into the dungeon requires agony resistance from ascended gear, the content was designed to provide challenging content, and to allow players to choose what difficulty they wanted to play at.

As for ascended gear, to reiterate what Chris has said (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside), it’s not intended as a treadmill, but rather as a tier of rewards that can help bridge the gap between Exotics (a few hours of effort to acquire a piece) and Legendaries (hundreds of hours of effort to acquire one). They’re currently only available in the Fractals of the Mist Dungeon, but we’re going to be adding new ways to acquire them, both inside of WvW as well as elsewhere in PvE.

You say you want the dungeon to be available for everyone to experience, and yet what is happening in-game is people are excluded from parties for lack of that experience. You say gating the higher levels is not intended as a treadmill, and yet it is effectively a treadmill thanks to the Agony mechanic. There is no skill required to make it past Agony, you either have the gear to mitigate it or you don’t. Seems to me to be a poor design, completely contrary to the manifesto and principles this game was sold on.

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

The Agony mechanic wasn’t introduced at the start of the dungeon so that everybody can experience the content. While one of the goals of the Fractals of the Mists dungeon was to provide some difficult content for players looking for a challenge, we also wanted the dungeon to be available for everybody to experience. While getting far into the dungeon requires agony resistance from ascended gear, the content was designed to provide challenging content, and to allow players to choose what difficulty they wanted to play at.

As for ascended gear, to reiterate what Chris has said (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside), it’s not intended as a treadmill, but rather as a tier of rewards that can help bridge the gap between Exotics (a few hours of effort to acquire a piece) and Legendaries (hundreds of hours of effort to acquire one). They’re currently only available in the Fractals of the Mist Dungeon, but we’re going to be adding new ways to acquire them, both inside of WvW as well as elsewhere in PvE.

I can’t speak for others, but my question here is, as above (and even quoted in your post,) will it stay this way? Will folks who don’t want to spend the (smaller than legendary but still significant) grind time for Ascended be able to complete the next dungeon/set of dungeons in the same scaling difficulty fashion, or will Agony resist become necessary from the starting portal at some point? A lot of us, it seems, simply don’t want to get caught betting wrong on this, and having to play catch up at a very bad time (ie when most folks seem to be focused on the newest content.)

(And for those who say ‘why don’t all you casual/non-grindy/behind/alt-aholic types band together, that would require us all to be on the same server, with the same play times, and need the same dungeons at the same actual time. The reality is that there are many of us, but we are scattered. Some are 80 already, some not. Some in exotics, some not. Some on one server, some on another, and so on. It is nowhere near as easy for the various folks who get left behind to find each other as it is for the first wave dungeon runners to spam LFG in LA when content is fresh from the oven.)

Look at this:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Realm_of_Torment

Did we require specific gear to brave the effects of these zones? Nope. Was it good design that increased the difficulty of the area without needing new gear? Yep.

Beerzilla.3297:

You say you want the dungeon to be available for everyone to experience, and yet what is happening in-game is people are excluded from parties for lack of that experience. You say gating the higher levels is not intended as a treadmill, and yet it is effectively a treadmill thanks to the Agony mechanic. There is no skill required to make it past Agony, you either have the gear to mitigate it or you don’t. Seems to me to be a poor design, completely contrary to the manifesto and principles this game was sold on.

eh, I’m no fan of the newest gear due to chilling implications, but you can get a group for a lvl 1 Fractal run in minutes. “LFxM FotM, any lvl accepted, just looking for a quick run.” Replace x with however many people you need, you’ll be in the dungeon in minutes. Do this a few time and you’ll see all 9 random mini-dungeons (you don’t need to run at the highest level your party is capable of, you can set it lower.) Current content -is- nicely accessible. The issue is a large concern, due to gear, elitism in the community born from gear, and vague wording from Anet, that future content will not be.

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

As for ascended gear, to reiterate what Chris has said (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside), it’s not intended as a treadmill, but rather as a tier of rewards that can help bridge the gap between Exotics (a few hours of effort to acquire a piece) and Legendaries (hundreds of hours of effort to acquire one). They’re currently only available in the Fractals of the Mist Dungeon, but we’re going to be adding new ways to acquire them, both inside of WvW as well as elsewhere in PvE.

If the only gap is in the hours required, AND before Legendaries and Exotic had the SAME STATS VALUES, why in Balthazar name the Ascended tier (and thus the “updated Legendaries” too) have higher stats than the Exotic one?

Will you stop at least once to treat us like idiots?

Beerzilla.3297:

You say you want the dungeon to be available for everyone to experience, and yet what is happening in-game is people are excluded from parties for lack of that experience. You say gating the higher levels is not intended as a treadmill, and yet it is effectively a treadmill thanks to the Agony mechanic. There is no skill required to make it past Agony, you either have the gear to mitigate it or you don’t. Seems to me to be a poor design, completely contrary to the manifesto and principles this game was sold on.

Not true. Skill can mitigate Agony, trait builds can mitigate Agony, playstyle can mitigate Agony, people are just refusing to even look at how it works or how they might be able to deal with it without ascended gear. Try looking at what even causes agony (such as evadable mechanics) before saying ascended gear is the only way to ever deal with it.

Furthermore, a few people wanting to do higher difficulties is not “excluding” people from content. There are plenty of people still doing lower level fractals. Heck, the fact that there’s so many rage posts by different people about lack of low level fractal runs proves that there are more than enough people still doing them. Even to this day, I see people constantly advertising for low-level fractals in /map chat on every server and overflow I go to. People here are spreading lies, misinformation, and hysteria to “get back at” ArenaNet for implementing ascended gear, and it’s just completely ridiculous.

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

As for ascended gear, to reiterate what Chris has said (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside), it’s not intended as a treadmill, but rather as a tier of rewards that can help bridge the gap between Exotics (a few hours of effort to acquire a piece) and Legendaries (hundreds of hours of effort to acquire one). They’re currently only available in the Fractals of the Mist Dungeon, but we’re going to be adding new ways to acquire them, both inside of WvW as well as elsewhere in PvE.

Thanks for responding Mr. McLeod.

Will you or Mike O’Brien please explain to us how this introduction of “gear stat progression” aligns with Mike’s horizontal progression vision:

“I don’t see a massive world, I see gear- and XP-checks that are preventing me from exploring it.”

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games – we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

The Agony mechanic wasn’t introduced at the start of the dungeon so that everybody can experience the content. While one of the goals of the Fractals of the Mists dungeon was to provide some difficult content for players looking for a challenge, we also wanted the dungeon to be available for everybody to experience. While getting far into the dungeon requires agony resistance from ascended gear, the content was designed to provide challenging content, and to allow players to choose what difficulty they wanted to play at.

Earning the ability to choose an appropriate difficulty level seems to be a long, drawn out affair. It is one where you have to find 4 other people dedicated to completing each difficulty level before it, even though the difficulty progression is quite slow. The result is that you are asking everyone to grind the ability to even choose a difficulty.

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

As for ascended gear, to reiterate what Chris has said (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside), it’s not intended as a treadmill, but rather as a tier of rewards that can help bridge the gap between Exotics (a few hours of effort to acquire a piece) and Legendaries (hundreds of hours of effort to acquire one). They’re currently only available in the Fractals of the Mist Dungeon, but we’re going to be adding new ways to acquire them, both inside of WvW as well as elsewhere in PvE.

The huge consumption of tier 6 mats and ectoplasm to craft Ascended gear only compounds the difficulty of getting a Legendary weapon. Thus, I would say the gap isn’t bridged but just pushed until later. Bridging the gap also does not in any way explain why Ascended gear transformed the grind for appearance into the grind for statistics.

Stormleaf.1769:

Beerzilla.3297:

You say you want the dungeon to be available for everyone to experience, and yet what is happening in-game is people are excluded from parties for lack of that experience. You say gating the higher levels is not intended as a treadmill, and yet it is effectively a treadmill thanks to the Agony mechanic. There is no skill required to make it past Agony, you either have the gear to mitigate it or you don’t. Seems to me to be a poor design, completely contrary to the manifesto and principles this game was sold on.

Not true. Skill can mitigate Agony, trait builds can mitigate Agony, playstyle can mitigate Agony, people are just refusing to even look at how it works or how they might be able to deal with it without ascended gear. Try looking at what even causes agony (such as evadable mechanics) before saying ascended gear is the only way to ever deal with it.

Furthermore, a few people wanting to do higher difficulties is not “excluding” people from content. There are plenty of people still doing lower level fractals. Heck, the fact that there’s so many rage posts by different people about lack of low level fractal runs proves that there are more than enough people still doing them. Even to this day, I see people constantly advertising for low-level fractals in /map chat on every server and overflow I go to. People here are spreading lies, misinformation, and hysteria to “get back at” ArenaNet for implementing ascended gear, and it’s just completely ridiculous.

Actually, this is in their own words, not mine. So please tell me how I am spreading misinformation or lies; this is straight from the devs.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

New Condition: Agony

In the upcoming Fractals of the Mists dungeon, we’ll introduce a new monster condition called Agony.
This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means. Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must. The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge.

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

As for ascended gear, to reiterate what Chris has said (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside), it’s not intended as a treadmill, but rather as a tier of rewards that can help bridge the gap between Exotics (a few hours of effort to acquire a piece) and Legendaries (hundreds of hours of effort to acquire one). They’re currently only available in the Fractals of the Mist Dungeon, but we’re going to be adding new ways to acquire them, both inside of WvW as well as elsewhere in PvE.

That would’ve been plausible if they had simply been cosmetic items and not an entirely new plateau of power to chase after, obsolescing our previous equipment. As it is, there’s no reason to believe you, or Mr. Whiteside. What you’ve done is directly contrary to the loudly and repeatedly stated design goals and philosophy the game was supposedly developed around.

Let Messrs. O’Brian, Flannum, and Johanson come out and explain how this move can be reconciled to their many past pronouncements about lack of grind and aesthetic rewards. Let them come out and offer detailed metrics to reassure us that this statistical power boost was a needed addition to the game. Let them come out and promise us that this addition was a singular anomaly that will never be repeated. Then I might believe your claims.

Merthax.5172:

Giving higher-stat gear so that you can face higher-stat enemies isn’t introducing true difficulty or progression into the game. It’s little more than an illusion.

If you want more challenging content, just make it more difficult without increasing character stats. This means players will have to actually increase their skill level in order to defeat the challenge. Grinding to get better gear to defeat the challenge is not an indicator of skill, it is an indicator of time spent.

There are still idiot gear grinders who don’t understand this illusion. In any case gear tiers isn’t really, at its secret heart, about progression relative to PVE, its about progression relative to your peers. Its feeding that social illness of keeping ahead of the Jones. I have a shiny that you don’t, therefore I am a more important person than you.

I’ve raided for gear grinding in previous MMOs for years and it sucks. I came to GW2 to avoid that.

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

They require some sort of proof to get into their party, whether it be displaying your Lightbringer Title, equipping or linking some type of gear, or using some other method of showing that you have already done and are experienced with the content.

Alright now back to basic shall we?
I took your Lightbringer title for example.
As we all know in GW1, PvE titles had nothing to do with PvP.
Therefore Lightbringer skills could not be use for any PvP activities. Only PvE.
But its fine to rank up PvP ranks in HA to party up for example.
Why? Cause it is earned by solely by Pvping in HA.

Now back to GW2.
Ascended Gear in WvWvW.
Isn’t Dungeons PvE? And why it is possible to use Ascended Gear in WvWvW?

See the difference between GW1 & GW2?
Hope you see the picture here dear Sir. Cause i cant make it anymore clearer.

Some bought this game for the PvE part of it. And others bought it for the PvP part.
Please do not force us Pvpers to run Dungeons just to maxed out our stats.
If Anet had planned for this, they should also think about us who just love to pvp.
Like PvP Honor Gear or something that we could earn by doing WvWvW or maybe even sPvP. Or a simple solution is to just make Ascended Gear worthless for WvWvW.

Galandil.9641:

why in Balthazar name the Ascended tier (and thus the “updated Legendaries” too) have higher stats than the Exotic one?

They want us to spend/waste more time getting legendaries, and in order to “incentivize” us to not just skip wasting money and time on ascended gear, the make it have higher stats.

THATS THE POINT

Okay, I get it now, ANet. Finally! Sorry for being so ignorant all the time.

Doesn’t change the fact that I can’t enjoy the game like that.

People play MMOs for a sense of character progression. I want to improve my "guy’ every time I log in. If i can’t do that, what is the point in playing? To dance around LA in pretty dyed exotics that everyone else has?

I’m sorry, but this community is pathetic. You cry about everything. Most MMO’s need a carrot on the stick to keep people logging in and playing.

If anything this game suffers from an extreme lack of progression at end-game. The journey is fantastic. 1-80 is so fun, I’ve done it 3 times now since launch.

Fractals of the Mists are an amazing set of mini-dungeons, and I have had a blast running each one at least once. I have no desire to repeatedly run through them though with absolutely no chance at improving my character.