Guild Wars 2

There is one thing that keeps bothering me in Guild Wars 2, and it is the lack of wilderness and unexplored, wild and maybe lush land.
- In WoW, or maybe rather (just to accommodate the “I hate WoW because it’s cool nowadays” mentality) Guild Wars 1 there weren’t all that many towns, but merely smaller outposts and such.
- Personally I feel like the game would do well with more “open” world instead of the world being one big village.

Is it just me, or are there those of you who agree?
- I mean, I like the world, it’s beautifully crafted, but in Guild Wars 1 I really had the sense that certain parts were wilderness and that there were roads where monsters or other creatures crept around making them more dangerous than around the towns and outposts. I miss that feeling of going up on top of a peak and look to the horizon without seeing a town nearby, and I miss the feeling of solitude it gives and the joy when you then see people or a small village where you can take a breather.

• Orr
• Lornar’s Pass
• Sparkfly Fen
• Mount Maelstrom
• Fireheart Rise
• Blazeridge Steppes
• Frostgorge Sound

Those are places off the top of my head where I can think of places without a town/outpost in site in a 360 view from an elevation of at least 100 feet.

Also, there are only 6 cities in GW2.

I miss the resulting cries of “LFR” because people didn’t want to fight their way themselves….

Although, actually, I remember with satisfaction fighting my own way from LA to ToA to… Or the pushes in the EoTN territory to get all of the cities unlocked. Of course, I only did these things once or twice, but it would be pretty epic to have to get a few friends together to push… say through the crystal desert to Domain of Joko or something.

Vorch.2985:

• Orr
• Lornar’s Pass
• Sparkfly Fen
• Mount Maelstrom
• Fireheart Rise
• Blazeridge Steppes
• Frostgorge Sound

Those are places off the top of my head where I can think of places without a town/outpost in site in a 360 view from an elevation of at least 100 feet.

Also, there are only 6 cities in GW2.

Not the same feeling at all. There are still outposts in all of those areas, you know the Krytan Design that seems to be everywhere around these parts?
Lornar’s Pass, Mount Maelstrom, Fireheart Rise and Frostgorge sound has this to some extent, but if you’ve played, say, GW1 you would know how that feeling of being in a place that not many have set foot on is.

When I think about the Crystal Desert in Guild Wars 1 (just as an example) there was a feeling of absolute solitude, the atmosphere and everything just really screamed this at you.

- I think that maybe these outposts needs to be further apart, or that some areas should have only one outpost.
Right now it feels like “Everything has been explored, we have to keep the roads safe”.
- Can you relate to that, or is that just me being waaaay to picky about this?
I think that such areas would look beautiful and feel pretty awesome in GW2.

JaironKalach.4938:

I miss the resulting cries of “LFR” because people didn’t want to fight their way themselves….

Although, actually, I remember with satisfaction fighting my own way from LA to ToA to… Or the pushes in the EoTN territory to get all of the cities unlocked. Of course, I only did these things once or twice, but it would be pretty epic to have to get a few friends together to push… say through the crystal desert to Domain of Joko or something.

Yeah, I hope to see more of this untrodden land.
- That is why we explore, isn’t it?

- I mean, I absolutely love it when I stumble upon a jumping puzzle. The one in Lion’s Arch really had me going crazy. It was epic, and it’s an epic feeling to find these hidden puzzles all over the world.

I think the difference between GW1 and GW2 that gives that feeling is not related to nearby outposts, but is related to instanced vs open world. Right now, when you are walking around, you will undoubtedly see other players. However, in GW1 when you left the OP you would only see your party (or henchmen), that gave a much deeper feeling of solitude.

I would love this in a new zone—I think Arenanet tried to evoke this sort of thought with the Southsun Cove release event, where we had to uncontest all of the waypoints in the zone before it became truly ‘civilized’.

I would LOVE, love, love to see a zone with, say, only one waypoint. Make the zone one big tribute to GW1, situate it in the Crystal Desert or Bloodstone Fen or something similar perhaps. The idea would be that for whatever reason, supernatural or otherwise, we couldn’t set up waypoints in this wide region, and so everyone could port in at a base camp and then set off and explore in whatever direction they choose.
The area would be very large, with valuable resources and events in every direction.
References to GW1 everywhere. Make it happen, Arenanet!

Sinifair.1026:

Vorch.2985:

• Orr
• Lornar’s Pass
• Sparkfly Fen
• Mount Maelstrom
• Fireheart Rise
• Blazeridge Steppes
• Frostgorge Sound

Those are places off the top of my head where I can think of places without a town/outpost in site in a 360 view from an elevation of at least 100 feet.

Also, there are only 6 cities in GW2.

Not the same feeling at all. There are still outposts in all of those areas, you know the Krytan Design that seems to be everywhere around these parts?
Lornar’s Pass, Mount Maelstrom, Fireheart Rise and Frostgorge sound has this to some extent, but if you’ve played, say, GW1 you would know how that feeling of being in a place that not many have set foot on is.

When I think about the Crystal Desert in Guild Wars 1 (just as an example) there was a feeling of absolute solitude, the atmosphere and everything just really screamed this at you.

- I think that maybe these outposts needs to be further apart, or that some areas should have only one outpost.
Right now it feels like “Everything has been explored, we have to keep the roads safe”.
- Can you relate to that, or is that just me being waaaay to picky about this?
I think that such areas would look beautiful and feel pretty awesome in GW2.

I’m a Gwamm from GW1.

The the Crystal Desert, the Ring of Fire Islands, and the Realm of Torment are the only large areas I can think of off the top of my head that had no sorts of outposts once you entered the instanced area.

However, I think I understand what you are getting at.

Southsun cove, perhaps. But refugees should be heading there shortly.

I think a big part of this feeling of missing wilderness if the convenient waypoint system. Waypoints are never too far apart so that you always have a feeling of safety no matter where you go. The game would feel more dangerous and wilder if there was only one waypoint per zone.

kokocabana.8153:

I think a big part of this feeling of missing wilderness if the convenient waypoint system. Waypoints are never too far apart so that you always have a feeling of safety no matter where you go. The game would feel more dangerous and wilder if there was only one waypoint per zone.

It was also an issue that popped into my mind, when I thought about it… but I also think that some zones could do with less outposts.

kokocabana.8153:

I think a big part of this feeling of missing wilderness if the convenient waypoint system. Waypoints are never too far apart so that you always have a feeling of safety no matter where you go. The game would feel more dangerous and wilder if there was only one waypoint per zone.

I wouldn’t say ONE waypoint per zone, but southsun cove’s 6 waypoints in a very dangerous area is a step towards your vision.

The issue with southsun is that it needs many more events and I believe that will come after April. However, the result is that it will be much more populated.

Perhaps traversing an area in the Mists or Ring of Fire Islands is in order

Now that OP mentions it, I realize I feel the same way. It would be awesome to have a map or two with very little civilization, which means less renown hearts, but more secret jumping puzzles and such to compensate for the lack of hearts. Having little waypoints would also help with the wild feel.

I think the problem here for you is the fact that the game map is not all instances anymore. There were less towns/outposts in GW1 because they were mainly at the before or end of an area which was 1 big instance.

And when I say big instance I really mean big. They were alot bigger than say an area like Queensdale or any other in GW2 are. You ALSO had to actually FIGHT your way through them inch by inch which was a very strategical/fun thing to do. Sadly a lot of that is missing in GW2.

Whenever I reached a new instance I would force myself not to leave it until I unlocked every area of it by scraping the walls/killing every creature and then scraping the walls of the inner objects of the inner map too. This is in the end of course is how I managed to get all explorer titles…

So what’s the difference between an outpost and a quest hub?

I don’t share the OP’s concern, but there is one zone that irks me in a similar, but not entirely identical way.

In Kessex Hills (especially the northern and eastern parts), I get the feeling that there are just too many fortresses (both human and centaur) in too small a space.

I understand the feeling of want to see a wonderful scenery, which I personally lack in every mmo …

This is the Jungle.

A lush, supplies, or I can lose, or stop me near a source, or my character will climb trees, or discover an ancient temple to eat by nature.
covers one or roots Grotts and or trees take place. or I do not apperçois the sky through the leaves and I feel or moisture.

Or Green Colour is everywhere, or moss grows on everything. Lianas hanging, thick foliage hides enemy.
And just like that, there verait heart of oaks, and may be the spirit of the Druids!

I’m just disappointed with the “walled in” feeling of the newer games I’ve played the past few years , this being just one them.

I agree. GW2 feels a little theme park-y for lack of better wording. Every knook and cranny is so crammed full of quest scenarios/settings there really is very little space left for some places of solitude. It’s a problem with the pacing imo, and how most players want their pve content as concentrated as possible without ‘useless’ empty space.

JaironKalach.4938:

I miss the resulting cries of “LFR” because people didn’t want to fight their way themselves….

haha i was always against running in GW1 as you don’t learn to play a class by being ran . I actually use to reply to the LFR people in all chat with " i couldn’t run you from Ascalon City to the Great Northern Wall" just to see what the responses would be .

I mostly agree with OP, tho I just plain want to see more wilderness. I particularly like the forest sections of zones, plains of ashford, SE harathi hinterlands, parts of queensdale, timberline falls…beautiful. So I suppose I just want to see more zones, and who knows what they got in store with the far shiverpeaks and other outlying regions to the north, outposts and towns might be more sparse because those area’s just aren’t exactly habitable, frostgorge sound we start to see signs of this.

Anyway

Jemmi.6058:

I think the difference between GW1 and GW2 that gives that feeling is not related to nearby outposts, but is related to instanced vs open world. Right now, when you are walking around, you will undoubtedly see other players. However, in GW1 when you left the OP you would only see your party (or henchmen), that gave a much deeper feeling of solitude.

This was one of the things I thought about, when I wrote this thread, but even in other open-world MMO’s such as WoW or SWTOR I got the feeling that I was alone in a wilderness.
- I think that kind of atmosphere is possible to implement into Guild Wars 2 (even though there are places where there aren’t many players around. Still, those zones do come with outposts with NPC’s inhabiting it, and they are never very far, or so it feels).

DubzGTI.8170:

I mostly agree with OP, tho I just plain want to see more wilderness. I particularly like the forest sections of zones, plains of ashford, SE harathi hinterlands, parts of queensdale, timberline falls…beautiful. So I suppose I just want to see more zones, and who knows what they got in store with the far shiverpeaks and other outlying regions to the north, outposts and towns might be more sparse because those area’s just aren’t exactly habitable, frostgorge sound we start to see signs of this.

Yeah, I’m also excited to see more zones.
- I thought to create this discussion on it to see whether people agreed or not, and to let it serve as an idea for future zone designs. I’m particularly excited to see the Crystal Desert and the Woodland Cascades… and heck I’m just as excited to see the Flame Legion Homelands and Far Shiverpeaks (and the Deldrimor Front, for that matter)

Needless to say that when they have implemented more of the zones (and when we get to see Elona and/or Cantha) the game will look and feel even more magnificent.
- Guild Wars 2 is one of the most aesthetically stunning MMO’s ever made.

Adine.2184:

JaironKalach.4938:

I miss the resulting cries of “LFR” because people didn’t want to fight their way themselves….

haha i was always against running in GW1 as you don’t learn to play a class by being ran . I actually use to reply to the LFR people in all chat with " i couldn’t run you from Ascalon City to the Great Northern Wall" just to see what the responses would be .

A friend of mine told me about that some people got these “runs” though I never experienced anyone asking for it in game.

Personally, I put a lot of pride in being self-sufficient and being able to do this stuff by myself (of course playing together with friends and such). One kind of misses out on content the other way around. It’s more fun to play the game the way it was designed to be played.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

I don’t share the OP’s concern, but there is one zone that irks me in a similar, but not entirely identical way.

In Kessex Hills (especially the northern and eastern parts), I get the feeling that there are just too many fortresses (both human and centaur) in too small a space.

This is basically what gave me the feeling that we needed more wilderness, eventually leading me to creating this post.
- Kessex Hills in particular is overly crowded with these fortresses (or outposts, as I call them) and I want more of that wilderness feeling.

I think, if you feel, as I have felt, the need for more of this rural forest kind of zone, that the Woodland Cascades will accommodate this, when we get to go there someday.

Still, I think it is nice that the centaurs and humans are fighting one another, but maybe if the centaurs had one big base that we would have to take over as an Area Event (or whatever the Events in the zones that lead up to bigger boss fights in the end are called) would suit it more.

Call me sadistic, but I loved those out of the way places where you had to work and fight to get there. The first place that came to mind for me was (upcoming WoW reference, forgive me) Silithus. You step out of that Cenarion camp on the hill and it was just you and the road, so to speak. Then, a little more thought and I remember “expeditions” through either Snake Dance or old Lornars to go cap FoC from Maw the Mountain Heart in Dreadnoughts. I may be in the minority as far as this game goes, but to have a zone that has no waypoints, that you have to fight through an entire other zone to get to just to hang out in, would make me all tingly inside.

The Crystal Desert, and especially the Arid Sea zone with that giant statue that falls down, was a wonderful area for solitude. You could really feel the wind in your hair and the sand between your toes there.

Also, “The Falls” in Maguuma, “Anvil Rock” in Northern Shiv, Shing Jea Island, and Istan.

I would also like to have a massive zone in GW2 that has no civilizations & 1 WP. In particular, I would love an honest-to-goodness forest. Thick with oak trees & shrubs, hills & rock formations. not sparsely spread out lolipops.

Hell, make it chock full, north to south, east to west with jumping puzzles, monsters you fight on the jumping puzzles, rare epic monster bosses with unique loot & a bunch of collections to earn that give unique skins & stuff.

I agree that there’s no true wilderness in the game where you’re truly alone.

I would love to see some HUGE open-world PvE zone where there’s a constant threat. Places like these add excitement, thrill, and adventure to the game, whereas at the moment, there’s no actual threat in GW2 open-world at the moment.

Example:
Far Shiverpeaks

• One giant open-world zone
• Few ‘safe spots’, villages, towns, outposts, etc…
• Way-points only at the start of the zone, thus there’s a threat of loosing your progress if you die.
• A looming threat, such as large packs of svanir/icebrood hunters, and/or a blizzard mechanic similar to the Snowblind fractal in which you’d have to find safety or perish during frequent storms.
• Thick forested scenery to prevent vision, massive mountains and glaciers.
• When night-time, vision could be restricted similar to Snowblind fractal.
• Special/increased loot, such as an increased chance to find corrupted lodestones, or maybe new rare loot.

This zone would be an open-world PvE zone designed to be an adventurous, dangerous zone, and would encourage people to group together with guildies or pugs in order to survive.

I kind of had that experience with trying to run all the way to the cursed shore from LA for the first time in order to find temple gear vendors. Monsters were everywhere and most of the waypoints were contested. Must have spent a good hour or two dying and running across the zone repeatedly.

jwaz.1908:

I agree that there’s no true wilderness in the game where you’re truly alone.

I would love to see some HUGE open-world PvE zone where there’s a constant threat. Places like these add excitement, thrill, and adventure to the game, whereas at the moment, there’s no actual threat in GW2 open-world at the moment.

Example:
Far Shiverpeaks

• One giant open-world zone
• Few ‘safe spots’, villages, towns, outposts, etc…
• Way-points only at the start of the zone, thus there’s a threat of loosing your progress if you die.
• A looming threat, such as large packs of svanir/icebrood hunters, and/or a blizzard mechanic similar to the Snowblind fractal in which you’d have to find safety or perish during frequent storms.
• Thick forested scenery to prevent vision, massive mountains and glaciers.
• When night-time, vision could be restricted similar to Snowblind fractal.
• Special/increased loot, such as an increased chance to find corrupted lodestones, or maybe new rare loot.

This zone would be an open-world PvE zone designed to be an adventurous, dangerous zone, and would encourage people to group together with guildies or pugs in order to survive.

+1 sir. I love the idea of having to take shelter during a squall or something of the sort. Also, a dark/night zone would be very freaking cool. My flamethrower would finally have a use, even if it is just lighting the path.

Alsyoni.5920:

jwaz.1908:

I agree that there’s no true wilderness in the game where you’re truly alone.

I would love to see some HUGE open-world PvE zone where there’s a constant threat. Places like these add excitement, thrill, and adventure to the game, whereas at the moment, there’s no actual threat in GW2 open-world at the moment.

Example:
Far Shiverpeaks

• One giant open-world zone
• Few ‘safe spots’, villages, towns, outposts, etc…
• Way-points only at the start of the zone, thus there’s a threat of loosing your progress if you die.
• A looming threat, such as large packs of svanir/icebrood hunters, and/or a blizzard mechanic similar to the Snowblind fractal in which you’d have to find safety or perish during frequent storms.
• Thick forested scenery to prevent vision, massive mountains and glaciers.
• When night-time, vision could be restricted similar to Snowblind fractal.
• Special/increased loot, such as an increased chance to find corrupted lodestones, or maybe new rare loot.

This zone would be an open-world PvE zone designed to be an adventurous, dangerous zone, and would encourage people to group together with guildies or pugs in order to survive.

+1 sir. I love the idea of having to take shelter during a squall or something of the sort. Also, a dark/night zone would be very freaking cool. My flamethrower would finally have a use, even if it is just lighting the path.

Okay, this is a very good idea, and it would work very well. I’d add in some familiar ruins from Eye of the North to bring out the nostalgia . . . Gunnar’s Hold, gutted and ruined? Bjora Marches turned into a Son of Svanir camp where they spent effort ruining Jora’s ancestral lands . . .

Jormungand the great wurm dead and frozen into a crystalline horror which may sometimes become a boss dynamic event.

This stood out for me very quickly as well. You never feel very far away from an outpost. Even in Orr, there are pact camps scattered all over. In other zones, there are heart NPCs and their buddies everywhere. No place in the world feels dangerous or remote. I’d really like some zones that are significantly more cut off.

Mineral Springs was always my favorite in GW1. Just felt so remote compared to the alot of the areas and was beautifully designed.

Too many friendly NPCs to be found at every turn. Not enough dangerous baddies. Give me Vanilla WoW Tyr’s Hand or Silithus-patch Silithus. Before the farmers showed up this had to be one of the best areas to play in anywhere, ever.

I think I know what you’re getting at.

For people who played GW1, remember the shiverpeaks. The old shiverpeaks, you know, that one where you had to get speedruns to good ol’ … wait.. what was it called again? Anyway, you know the place.

To be honest, I felt ‘solitude’ less so in the crystal desert, I mean, sure, I was alone but I think the shiverpeaks with its forests just captured something that the crystal desert didn’t. Same thing with the ring of fire imo. I’d love it if ANET added a DENSE forest that goes on for at least 5 minutes in any direction (non-speed buffed).

Reading these posts I suspect waypoints are a big part of the problem, but I also think that means it can be easily solved by teaching yourself to avoid using them.

I came to this conclusion because I was reading through this topic thinking it’s strange that one thing I love about RPGs is that sense of forging a path through the wilderness and it’s one of the things I’m most enjoying about GW2 so I couldn’t understand why other people didn’t feel that way.

Then it occured to me that it’s probably because I avoid waypoints. Originally it was just me being cheap, I’d rather spend a few minutes running to my destination that use a waypoint. But I’ve also found it’s more fun because of exactly this – you get much more of a sense of being out in the wilderness when you have to make sure you’ve got everything you need to make it to your destination, do what you came to do and get back. Those outposts and settlements also start looking a lot smaller when you’re hoping there will be a merchant who can let you offload some junk items and anything else is a bonus.

You also get to see a lot more of the scenery and experience more of the events as you’re going.

(On an unrelated note when talking about Kessex Hills specifically remember that this is an area that’s been inhabited by humans for well over 250 years and for other races by even longer. Even in GW1 there were several settlements in that area, so if you’re wanting wilderness that’s the wrong place to look.)

I agree with Danikat. The more I avoid waypoints and walk places, the more real the world seems to me. Even using asura portals in preference to waypoints.

I have to say that I’ve felt very “lost” in the wilderness many times in this game.

Though I think one problem is the prevalence of humanoid enemies. A camp of bandits is about as civilized as a camp of lionguard.

I have to agree with OP.
This game is simply beautiful…the art, the graphics…just stunning…
But I just feel ‘’too safe’’ in these zones…
I played GW1 for over six years and I have to say I greatly enjoyed taking a challenge to get to some faaaar ‘’cut-off’’ areas, like Lornar’s Pass and Snake Dance. I also enjoyed running from Lion’s Arch to Ascalon…it felt like a perfect adventure.
I stopped using waypoints in GW2, I also don’t feel like wasting any silver on them…but even without using them, I always have that feeling of safety…friendly NPC’s are nearly at every step…as well as some outposts and smaller ‘’safe places’‘.
I would really like to see some dense forest, I don’t want it over-populated with enemies…just some area where one can enjoy the solitude and serenity of the place…maybe full of some secret areas…jumping puzzles etc…I seriously love how they made that jumping puzzle in Malchor’s Leap and Hidden Garden in Mount Maelstrom.
I sincerely hope they add more ‘’less populated’’ areas, with less waypoints, NPC’s and ‘’outposts".
Heck, even in Brand, Shiverpeaks and Orr I feel ’’safe’’…because I know there’s WP at nearly every step and always NPC’s going about…
I hope ANet takes this into account, because it would make the game even better!
And as suggested, making one area where there’s complete darkness would be amazing! Some dark forest…where you use a torch (flamethrower, fiery sword etc)
This game has a lot of potential, and I think adding a few areas like this would be BRILLIANT!
I have to thank Arena Net for making such a wonderful game and I am sure they’ll make it even more beautiful in the future. Looking forward to see more areas, especially Far Shiverpeaks and Ring of Fire! (With hope they’ll have less WP’s and safe-zones)