Guild Wars 2

Yesterday, I came home late and launched GW2. Given my day, my brain was in off mode.

The guild was active in WvW so I joined. I had my part of fun. Great. I played for about 1 hour, then I saw I had only three dailies out of five done (and only one WvW-related daily).

I checked the hour and thought “yeah, I can do AC story before going to bed”. At least I do a dungeon, not some stupid gatherer/craft daily. 20 minutes later I’m out of the dungeon and I’m at 4 achievements out of five.

What’s left? Oh cool, some Maguuma event and some underwater killer. That will be easy and I won’t do those stupid gatherer and crafts. I go to my underwater spot in Maguuma Jungle and farm mobs. Daily done.

Additionally, I’m now at 3 events out of 4. It would be too bad not to finish it. Let’s finish and see if the flame thingy is on in Metrica Province. Aye it is. Good, I’ve done my dailies.

Hey, curious, what were the other daily achievements? Oh, only craft / gatherer left? (+ kill dollies, other wvw achi) Easy, well, hey 2 achievement points are 2 achievement points. So let’s go to Frostgorge, gather and craft the result.

Cheers, it’s done. I played two hours. Good. Time to log off, yeah I’m in time. Good job, I’m now closer to the next achievement level.

What did I do in my dailies that I liked?
- WvW
- Soloing a champion in Metrica Province

What did I do in my dailies that I’m not fond of?
- Gathering again
- Crafting again
- Killing underwater again
- Farming mobs in Metrica Province again
- Doing the same events in Metrica Province again
- Doing a dungeon story again where I’d have preferred an explorable.

By doing my dailies I’m not rewarded for playing I like to play, but I’m rewarded for the way Anet wants me to play.

Even more now that the achievements reward gold, laurels and other stuff. My brain was off and what did I do? I maximized my achievement gains. That’s not how I want to play, but that’s how I’m playing when my brain’s off. I didn’t enjoy the parts of the daily we have to do.

If you do everything, you will get dailies done regardless.

You got to make it not a grind. If there are area kill/event/vet ones, I do those on a character in those regions, or as a character that has things to do in those regions. If I have to gather, I prefer to do it in an area I havent 100% yet, so its multiple birds with one stone.

Fror.2163:

- Doing a dungeon story again where I’d have preferred an explorable.

Bad design there. Sooner or later any person will get to a point where all the story dungeons are done – and they are not designed with repeating in mind. That daily should allow for any path (whether story or explore).

Zacchary.6183:

If you do everything, you will get dailies done regardless.

…yes, by definition, since “everything” includes “all dailies”. Your point was?

Fror.2163:

but that’s how I’m playing when my brain’s off.

Turn your brain on then.

Astralporing.1957:

Fror.2163:

- Doing a dungeon story again where I’d have preferred an explorable.

Bad design there. Sooner or later any person will get to a point where all the story dungeons are done – and they are not designed with repeating in mind. That daily should allow for any path (whether story or explore).

Zacchary.6183:

If you do everything, you will get dailies done regardless.

…yes, by definition, since “everything” includes “all dailies”. Your point was?

Im sure they mean “everything” to just playing all aspects of the game, instead of JUST playing dungeons, or just fractals, or just WvW.
And there is a reason Dailies need 5 but have more than 5 to beat. Because not everyone wants to do all of them, so there is usually an alternative to undesirable challanges. I rarely do dungeons, and Ive never done one just to complete a daily.

The daily is a REWARD for doing something, not something the game OWES you for showing up.

Why do you need to do every possible daily? Optional means just that. If you personally cannot handle options I don’t really think it is the game that is the problem.

Doing dailies is brain-dead activity. Period.

I do mine in the mornings while having coffee before leaving for work. I an not even fully awake and I can get at least 3 or 4 , sometimes all 5 done in 20min. That is how brain-dead an activity this is …

Zacchary.6183:

If you do everything, you will get dailies done regardless.

Sure…except in this daily you have two specific parts of the world to get kills in(so if you say, want to kill stuff in Orr, those aren’t happening). You also have crafting, so if you don’t do that, I guess you are crap out of luck. You have a dungeon and not everyone has time or the desire to do that. Then you have WvW which the overwhelming majority of the community doesn’t do.

Usually, I would agree with you, but as someone who goes out of his way to do the daily, I don’t think I’ll get this one done. I simply don’t have the time or the desire to go so far out of my way to get it finished.

bri.2359:

Doing dailies is brain-dead activity. Period.

I do mine in the mornings while having coffee before leaving for work. I an not even fully awake and I can get at least 3 or 4 , sometimes all 5 done in 20min. That is how brain-dead an activity this is …

I second that. So true.

I gotta ask, how do you manage to complain about getting an optional chest done while doing what you like?

Cuz that’s just what I read… you said that you did something that you like (WvW and Champion in MP) and you got 4/5 done for the daily…while doing what you like… and you complain that you “have to” do 1/5 when you don’t like it… and the best thing is, it’s only 1 out of another (6?) options available…

EDIT;

Zacchary.6183:

Zacchary.6183:

If you do everything, you will get dailies done regardless.

Sure…except in this daily you have two specific parts of the world to get kills in(so if you say, want to kill stuff in Orr, those aren’t happening). You also have crafting, so if you don’t do that, I guess you are crap out of luck. You have a dungeon and not everyone has time or the desire to do that. Then you have WvW which the overwhelming majority of the community doesn’t do.

Usually, I would agree with you, but as someone who goes out of his way to do the daily, I don’t think I’ll get this one done. I simply don’t have the time or the desire to go so far out of my way to get it finished.

a) you can “craft” 20 jute scraps into whatever they are called and do the daily… takes 5sec?
b) that’s exactly why they have options… if you don’t like dungeons you do WvW and vice versa … if you don’t like gathering, you go kill… if you don’t like killing, you craft… if you don’t like everything, then don’t do the kitten daily… what do you expect, for them to hand it to you for loggin in?

Apparently, I wasn’t clear.

The problem is that people are not rewarded for playing the game as they want : they are rewarded for playing the game as Anet wants. That’s a problem.

Furthermore, the dailies are tightly tied to the achievement system, giving even more rewards for doing the dailies. So players really are pushed to do them even if they don’t like it. And players are pushed to now do all the daily items. That’s a problem.

Right, you’re still free to not do it, but given the rewards, it’d be dumb to not do them. So, by default, this choice is bad.

Old man: Could you save our village from the bandits that been attacking us, We will give you this reward for it.
Hero: No, that’s not what I want to do, I want to kill these rabbits here instead, so can I have the reward if I did that?
Old Man: gtfo -_-

Fror.2163:

By doing my dailies I’m not rewarded for playing I like to play, but I’m rewarded for the way Anet wants me to play.

Technically, you were rewarded. It’s just that not everything you wanna do consists of the daily requirement at that day.

BobbyT.7192:

Old man: Could you save our village from the bandits that been attacking us, We will give you this reward for it.
Hero: No, that’s not what I want to do, I want to kill these rabbits here instead, so can I have the reward if I did that?
Old Man: gtfo -_-

Hero: "See old man, i will save your village from the bandits, because i really want to help you. "
Old Man: “Wonderful, young man – and if you in addition to that paint yourself green and perform a rain dance naked in the town square, we might have a reward for you”
Hero: “…i’m outta here, deal with your problems yourselves.”

Fror.2163:

Apparently, I wasn’t clear.

The problem is that people are not rewarded for playing the game as they want : they are rewarded for playing the game as Anet wants. That’s a problem.

Furthermore, the dailies are tightly tied to the achievement system, giving even more rewards for doing the dailies. So players really are pushed to do them even if they don’t like it. And players are pushed to now do all the daily items. That’s a problem.

Right, you’re still free to not do it, but given the rewards, it’d be dumb to not do them. So, by default, this choice is bad.

People are rewarded for playing the game they want since you still get drops materials xp, karma etc.
Oh you mean laurels? Achievement points?

Dailies are basically there so that people with very little time can log on each day and make some progress be it towards ascendant amulets, a cat tonic or whatever.

NO one is pushing you and Anet is certainly not forcing you.
I have never bothered to do all dailies- that is why you are given a choice.

Achievement points are just that- they are points you get for pretty much playing- they are not going away and it is not a race.
Did you even care before there where rewards?

This is a non argument- dailies pretty much do themselves anyway and if not, no one is going to come to your house and force you to finish it.

You can argue for or against it. Anet have been very strategic with achievement points, dailys, monthlys etc. They are hanging carrots out there to shape their customers. Nobody can dispute this. It is a clear fact. For one, I think it’s a smart way to save on development costs and to keep a large portion of players active in the game. But I feel somewhat exploited by them. But then that is something I’ve come to expect from game developers these days.

I wish they would put a specific chain of events on the Daily… bring back some life into the starter/low-level zones.

I guess I’m ‘dumb’, because I don’t do, and never have done, ALL of the Daily options. I rarely do dungeons or WvW, as it just isn’t my preferred playstyle. Getting some rewards from those chests a little later than some doesn’t break the game for me. But, that’s just dumb ol’ me. =)

I do the quickest/most mindless 5 and that’s it. If I get another incidentally, fine.

Gathering I get done doing the # of mobs or kill variety. Events I sometimes look for. Usually I can just hop in to a starter zone and finish all 5 in half an hour (depending on requirements obviously).

Usually I then go play something else, or rarely finish a zone.

Astralporing.1957:

BobbyT.7192:

Old man: Could you save our village from the bandits that been attacking us, We will give you this reward for it.
Hero: No, that’s not what I want to do, I want to kill these rabbits here instead, so can I have the reward if I did that?
Old Man: gtfo -_-

Hero: "See old man, i will save your village from the bandits, because i really want to help you. "
Old Man: “Wonderful, young man – and if you in addition to that paint yourself green and perform a rain dance naked in the town square, we might have a reward for you”
Hero: “…i’m outta here, deal with your problems yourselves.”

Man I wish I could get reward for dancing naked :p

I can’t beleve people still making these threads. You want daily chest reward you will do what needs to be done, if you dont like it dont do it. Whats next, people will complain they can’t get dungeon tokens just for showing up infront of dungeon…

kRiza krimos.1637:

I can’t beleve people still making these threads. You want daily chest reward you will do what needs to be done, if you dont like it dont do it. Whats next, people will complain they can’t get dungeon tokens just for showing up infront of dungeon…

Actually… I would like that. I need a ton more for certain dungeons that I don’t care to pug

Gathering is not hard at all. Hit mines & trees so you get credit minimum of 3, hit rich mines & you will practically be done. Go to new island and mine the new crystal stuff & you will be done. Plus, there are veterans/champs there from events, so that’s 3 minimum dailies there (Maguuma Jungle Vet kills , Maguuma Jungle Event Completer, & Champ Kills)

Crafting, holy cow this is even easier, just take the ore/logs and make into 10, YES 10, ingots/planks, DONE!

Gathering/Crafting are the 2 easiest of easy to get, especially if your in WvW. Its not hard to take 1-3min to get this done. 1-3min of your time is not worth all this complaining.

Putting in half effort does not deserve any reward, let alone acknowledgement.

So there are two options, you can break a sweat and try to squeeze out another whooping 1 achievement point – or you could not bother (especially if you don’t like “gathering” for example) because “other” activities (basically the living story) award way more achievement points.

The choice is yours.

Fror.2163:

Yesterday, I came home late and launched GW2. Given my day, my brain was in off mode.

The guild was active in WvW so I joined. I had my part of fun. Great. I played for about 1 hour, then I saw I had only three dailies out of five done (and only one WvW-related daily).

I checked the hour and thought “yeah, I can do AC story before going to bed”. At least I do a dungeon, not some stupid gatherer/craft daily. 20 minutes later I’m out of the dungeon and I’m at 4 achievements out of five.

What’s left? Oh cool, some Maguuma event and some underwater killer. That will be easy and I won’t do those stupid gatherer and crafts. I go to my underwater spot in Maguuma Jungle and farm mobs. Daily done.

Additionally, I’m now at 3 events out of 4. It would be too bad not to finish it. Let’s finish and see if the flame thingy is on in Metrica Province. Aye it is. Good, I’ve done my dailies.

Hey, curious, what were the other daily achievements? Oh, only craft / gatherer left? (+ kill dollies, other wvw achi) Easy, well, hey 2 achievement points are 2 achievement points. So let’s go to Frostgorge, gather and craft the result.

Cheers, it’s done. I played two hours. Good. Time to log off, yeah I’m in time. Good job, I’m now closer to the next achievement level.

What did I do in my dailies that I liked?
- WvW
- Soloing a champion in Metrica Province

What did I do in my dailies that I’m not fond of?
- Gathering again
- Crafting again
- Killing underwater again
- Farming mobs in Metrica Province again
- Doing the same events in Metrica Province again
- Doing a dungeon story again where I’d have preferred an explorable.

By doing my dailies I’m not rewarded for playing I like to play, but I’m rewarded for the way Anet wants me to play.

Even more now that the achievements reward gold, laurels and other stuff. My brain was off and what did I do? I maximized my achievement gains. That’s not how I want to play, but that’s how I’m playing when my brain’s off. I didn’t enjoy the parts of the daily we have to do.

Sounds like a personal problem to me.

Anet wants you to play WHATEVER WAY YOU WANT. That’s why there are achievements for so many different types of activities. YOU are the one who chose to do things you don’t like doing just so you can get more…points.

You say: “In order to complete this daily, I have to play the way they want me to play.”

I hear: “I made a choice to complete this daily, so that is what I want to do. Since that is what I want to do by my own free will, I therefore have no legitimate argument to say that I am forced to do it. So, I will complain anyway.”

Dailies are grinding. There’s no other consistent way to get laurels (even the new ap rewards are too slow for laurels specifically), so it’s not as simple as “it’s optional, don’t do it”.

Also dailies reward players who waste their time doing needless stuff for 10 minutes (crafting crap for the sake of it, going underwater farming 25 enemies for the sake of it, etc) and punish players who spend 40 minutes in, say, a dungeon. That’s because dungeons and several other activities take too much time and are worth too little in a daily, while unnecessary grinding is faster and allows you to complete an entire daily.

People who can only log for an hour each week day won’t be able to, say, do a dungeon, or explore the new bazaar map, or participate in a guild mission sequence, or follow the storyline, while finishing the dailies at the same time.

Only players exploring the world can fully complete dailies without wasting their time in stuff they don’t want. Outside of those players, the real option the daily system gives to you, is between having fun, or halting your fun for the sake of laurels.

Not to mention that dailies also punish players who can’t log in every day, even if they were willing to give twice the effort the following day. In comparison, the zaishen daily system present in GW1 was far more sophisticated than this one, as it allowed you to stack zaishen quests for up to 3 days. Not to mention that they were also more exciting, as they revolved around single epic objectives (killing bosses, doing dungeons, etc) and had no mindless gathering/ crafting/ whatever filler inbetween.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Not to mention that dailies also punish players who can’t log in every day, even if they were willing to give twice the effort the following day. In comparison, the zaishen daily system present in GW1 was far more sophisticated than this one, as it allowed you to stack zaishen quests for up to 3 days. Not to mention that they were also more exciting, as they revolved around single epic objectives (killing bosses, doing dungeons, etc) and had no gathering/ crafting/ whatever filler inbetween.

I don’t mind the dailies being how they are – I don’t mind missing most days (I only really get a chance to complete them at the weekend), and I like getting the laurels via achievements. What I WOULD like, in line with your thinking perhaps, in terms of feeling less at a disadvantage, would be for the things that cost laurels to perhaps cost a few laurels less. Not the items that only cost 2 or 3, but maybe the ones that cost 30? I don’t know though – generally I’m pretty happy waiting for stuff. Hey, if I can’t play the game, why should I get stuff that’s awarded for playing, right? But, yeah, the laurels for dailies are odd as they’re sort of designed for people like me, with limited time, but don’t really address the fact that limited time doesn’t necessarily equate to limited time EACH DAY, but rather limited time period.

Entitlement threads again. Every game requires you to play the way the developers have intended. They give you choices, but it is still the choices they decided on. That’s like complaining that there’s no space cowboy class in this game because the devs are forcing me to play with the classes they made.

kokocabana.8153:

Entitlement threads again. Every game requires you to play the way the developers have intended. They give you choices, but it is still the choices they decided on. That’s like complaining that there’s no space cowboy class in this game because the devs are forcing me to play with the classes they made.

There’s a difference between demanding a game to be exactly like what they want, to complaining about the game not being what was advertised/ promised for. The former is the player’s fault (entitlement), the later is Anet’s (failing to live up to their own promises).

P.S. Anet didn’t intend for dailies to require grinding. Or at the very least, that is their official word.

IMO adding some “shiny” rewards for AP was a mistake. Some people who dont like to farm dailies and such will now do it becouse they will feel it is needed to obtain the rewards. After a while the risk of them getting burned out will increase. In same manner as there are people who got burned out and left after farming Orr for few hours each day (“hey, I need my mats for legendary!”) or doing 30 CoF runs per day (“hey, I need gold to buy all that stuff!”). Some people enjoy doing achievements just for the sake of it and then it all works fine. But now you push into it hordes of players who dont want to do it but still will becouse there is something shiny waiting for them. Expect lots of forum AP QQ in the nearest future.

Awe.1096:

IMO adding some “shiny” rewards for AP was a mistake. Some people who dont like to farm dailies and such will now do it becouse they will feel it is needed to obtain the rewards. After a while the risk of them getting burned out will increase. In same manner as there are people who got burned out and left after farming Orr for few hours each day (“hey, I need my mats for legendary!”) or doing 30 CoF runs per day (“hey, I need gold to buy all that stuff!”). Some people enjoy doing achievements just for the sake of it and then it all works fine. But now you push into it hordes of players who dont want to do it but still will becouse there is something shiny waiting for them. Expect lots of forum AP QQ in the nearest future.

The problem is not the game, it’s the players. Everything that happens in a videogame is a CHOICE. Nobody from Anet is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to gather materials for a daily achievement. I have absolutley no pity for people who complain about “having” to do stuff they don’t like for something they want. They are CHOSING to make themselves miserable. Anet should not be punished for wanting to reach out to different kinds of gamers.

Eddie G.8731:

Awe.1096:

IMO adding some “shiny” rewards for AP was a mistake. Some people who dont like to farm dailies and such will now do it becouse they will feel it is needed to obtain the rewards. After a while the risk of them getting burned out will increase. In same manner as there are people who got burned out and left after farming Orr for few hours each day (“hey, I need my mats for legendary!”) or doing 30 CoF runs per day (“hey, I need gold to buy all that stuff!”). Some people enjoy doing achievements just for the sake of it and then it all works fine. But now you push into it hordes of players who dont want to do it but still will becouse there is something shiny waiting for them. Expect lots of forum AP QQ in the nearest future.

The problem is not the game, it’s the players. Everything that happens in a videogame is a CHOICE. Nobody from Anet is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to gather materials for a daily achievement. I have absolutley no pity for people who complain about “having” to do stuff they don’t like for something they want. They are CHOSING to make themselves miserable. Anet should not be punished for wanting to reach out to different kinds of gamers.

Oh but I agree with you 100%. But quality of players you describe is something inevitable and should be taken into account when making decissions. My case is, the free AP rewards will actually produce more QQ than if there would be nothing offered instead.

Well, if all those people CHOOSE to stop playing, It will be punishing Anet, now won’t it? That’s the only logical outcome when everything is gated behind things they don’t want to do.

Awe.1096:

Eddie G.8731:

Awe.1096:

IMO adding some “shiny” rewards for AP was a mistake. Some people who dont like to farm dailies and such will now do it becouse they will feel it is needed to obtain the rewards. After a while the risk of them getting burned out will increase. In same manner as there are people who got burned out and left after farming Orr for few hours each day (“hey, I need my mats for legendary!”) or doing 30 CoF runs per day (“hey, I need gold to buy all that stuff!”). Some people enjoy doing achievements just for the sake of it and then it all works fine. But now you push into it hordes of players who dont want to do it but still will becouse there is something shiny waiting for them. Expect lots of forum AP QQ in the nearest future.

The problem is not the game, it’s the players. Everything that happens in a videogame is a CHOICE. Nobody from Anet is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to gather materials for a daily achievement. I have absolutley no pity for people who complain about “having” to do stuff they don’t like for something they want. They are CHOSING to make themselves miserable. Anet should not be punished for wanting to reach out to different kinds of gamers.

Oh but I agree with you 100%. But quality of players you describe is something inevitable and should be taken into account when making decissions. My case is, the free AP rewards will actually produce more QQ than if there would be nothing offered instead.

That’s fair. I didn’t mean any disrespect.

I guess the whole concept just grinds my gears…GW2 is an MMO, a virtual world. And just like our real world, you have to make choices about what you are and are not willing to put up with. The idea that people are making choices to NOT have fun, then blaming the game for the choices they made? Ugh…

Yargesh.4965:

Why do you need to do every possible daily? Optional means just that. If you personally cannot handle options I don’t really think it is the game that is the problem.

Boom, roasted.

“It’s optional” is a terrible argument.

First, the people who are defending the game’s current state are going against anet’s own views. The devs have always intended for GW2 to be played for fun, never to be a real world simulation. And yes, this means that anet’s execution on their own ideas needs improvement, and that’s a problem with the game, not the players.

Second, if we’re going to use the cheap and easy “it’s optional” argument, we can pretty much use it to every single situation. Afterall, playing GW2 is optional. You can always not play it just because you think the game isn’t perfect. Doing new content is optional. You can always be stuck to old content and keep waiting for new patches. Getting better stats is optional. You can always challenge yourself or ignore gated content. Everything is optional, so every single piece of criticism is worthless. That’s how terrible the “it’s optional” argument is.

Dailies weren’t meant to feel like a grind. They were meant to reward players for logging in everyday doing stuff their like. This is the official word. Anet’s developers have presented dailies this way. But currently, there are several issues with the daily system. For example, a player who likes exploring the world can get almost always get the full daily in 20-30 minutes. Meanwhile, a player who likes dungeons, or a player who likes to follow the storyline, can very well spend 0 minutes or more into the game, and only get 1/5 of the daily, sometimes more, sometimes even nothing, forcing them to do repeatable, mindless stuff they don’t like. That’s grinding.

This, is a fault of the game. Dailies also used to punish WvW players before, but Anet has since then added more WvW-specific dailies to fix the issues. There’s still not enough dailies for some other major goals of this game, like story-driven content or group-play content, but this is a fault of the game, and we should point this out in hopes that Anet will listen again, and continuously improve the daily system.

It has nothing to do with choices. Real choices are choices like which type of equipment to invest, or which type of content to give priority to. Dailies are not about choices, they are about rewarding players who play the game everyday. They are not perfect at what they’re trying to accomplish.

today daily can be completed all in wvwvw this is how i did it after the reset

Awe.1096:

IMO adding some “shiny” rewards for AP was a mistake. Some people who dont like to farm dailies and such will now do it becouse they will feel it is needed to obtain the rewards. After a while the risk of them getting burned out will increase. In same manner as there are people who got burned out and left after farming Orr for few hours each day (“hey, I need my mats for legendary!”) or doing 30 CoF runs per day (“hey, I need gold to buy all that stuff!”). Some people enjoy doing achievements just for the sake of it and then it all works fine. But now you push into it hordes of players who dont want to do it but still will becouse there is something shiny waiting for them. Expect lots of forum AP QQ in the nearest future.

The problem with this analysis is that ANet is trying to cater to many subsets of the game’s population. Some wanted more rewards. Some wanted AP’s to be worth something other than filling out a tab in your Hero Panel. Some wanted more incentive to do things in game. Choosing not to cater to those demographics could also have a negative effect.

With regard to people complaining about having to do things they don’t want to do to get the rewards — entitlement is entitlement. You cannot have rewards for doing content if you: (a) don’t have rewards in the first place; or (b) pass the rewards out for little to no effort because people who are choosing to go for a reward are impatient, want it now and try to rub ANet’s face in the whole, “We don’t want people to grind.” sound bit.

If people don’t find content fun, don’t do it. If they want the rewards, the beauty of AP’s is that the game throws them at you for almost anything you do. Given that design, the rewards will come eventually.