Guild Wars 2

True story.

In fact, the mere presence of the wealthiest people in the game is actually benefiting the other players more than any non-wealthy people possibly can (economically speaking). You should be THANKING people who are the 1%. ANet handing out liquid gold like candy is one of the biggest disservice it can do to it’s players. But there is a lot of misconception that makes people thinks the opposite is true.

Now before you think i’m a egotistic Quggan-Bag with a 2 celled nucleus, let’s think rationally first ok? Give me a chance. Let me explain before you explode your fury upon me.

Let’s start at the beginning. How does one acquire wealth in game?

Sure, you can gain wealth by simply playing the game in the ‘traditional sense’, but these people, even if they play non-stop can only be considered as well off and not the wealthiest people in the game. To be truly wealthy, you have to be playing the Trading Post and making some good investments.

Now ask yourself, what is the biggest gold sink in all of GW2? Trading post. That 15% fee is, by far the biggest gold sink in the game. So much so, that ALL other gold sink combined is less than the trading post fee gold sink. But it gets better! Because we have to first buy the product then sell it at a profit/loss(we are the one taking the risk but you are enjoying part of the benefit!), that 15% fee is applied twice, removing, on average, twice as much gold than a regular transaction. Therefore, the people that are the wealthiest delete more gold from the economy than any other player. What happens when gold gets deleted from the economy? Your gold is now worth more because there is less of it now. You can purchase more with your gold than you could of before people like me step in. Without us, inflation would be so out of control due to the incredible amount of gold circulating that it is by no exaggeration that your gold is becomes closer to a worthless currency. Gem exchange prices would be higher, precursors would cost more, legendary becomes less accessible. Do you want that?

Remember when 100gems cost 15 silvers? Why is that not the case now?
ANet intervening to create unsustainable amount of gold into the market is the real evil and the real reason why gems, precursors, and mystic coin (as an example) are so far out of reach for striving players in needed quantities. As an example, 2 gold out of thin air from daily, times that by the amount of people who do daily on a regular basis and you have any idea the extraordinary amount of gold gets circulated into the market? That devalues everyone’s gold buying power, that means every time someone does daily, it HARMS every other player’s economic power, ever so slightly (which adds ups when you consider the entire player base). THAT is the reason gems and things are so expensive now than they were in the past and is only continue to rise.

That is where the outrage should not be, not “mystic/precursors too costly due to evil 1% manipulating the market, ANet pls nerf”.

Without us, the cost would be even more inaccessible to you because undervalued items are purchased quickly and you are left with expensive things to buy from instead of undervalued items being flipped at a fair market value. You know the price is fair because if it isn’t you wouldn’t buy it at that price and therefore, I would be losing 5% of that transaction from listing it if other people can offer it cheaper.

The solution? Don’t reward liquid gold as reward, reward drops as reward. This increases EVERYONE’s economic power while still affording the ability for others to gain wealth.

If you understand how the system works, you’ll see that the 1% is actually the true heroes and you should be complaining about things like dailies rewarding liquid gold. It may appear one is helping the players while the other is just some greedy people harming the economy, i assure you the opposite is true once you dive deeper and understand the economic principles.

Capitalism is enriching oneself by enriching others first.

Was there a point to this post?

OriOri.8724:

Was there a point to this post?

you’ll find the point if you read the first paragraph… the first.

But Anet has been reducing liquid gold as rewards and increasing reward drops, such as materials.
Also I rarely hear complaints about the “top 1%” in gw2. I think you’re mistaking gw2 for the real world.

Sky.7610:

OriOri.8724:

Was there a point to this post?

you’ll find the point if you read the first paragraph… the first.

send me some money if you like helping people lmao teasing probably more than a few 1%‘ers here i mean $50 spent on gems to sell and you’d be in the 1% in gw2 to bad real life wasnt like that bill gates be bumming money off me lol

So about that money to help the 99%?

I disagree, it’s not a gold sink it’s a “time sink” given enough time even with 0.01% of effort it may take you 100 years to get what you’re after but you will obtain it, example I see people popping out legendary weapons out like it’s water, but I waited I simply waited for ArenaNet to change the system not so I could get something faster but so that there was more content or depth rather to obtain that item, it took 3 years to obtain my first legendary and I’m more satisfied with the effort of obtaining it because the journey to get it was legendary, so the only thing this artificial ‘virtual’ fake market actually does is to satisfy a requirement for time sink because of a ‘lack of content’, if everything was just handed to you say within a week the game would be devoid of players because they’d get everything done and be gone in a week.

‘lack of content’ I mean in the sense of if they showered you with 1000’s of gold per hour if not by the minute, not that there is a lack of content because there is a time sink in the way.

Sky.7610:

OriOri.8724:

Was there a point to this post?

you’ll find the point if you read the first paragraph… the first.

I read the whole thing, and I don’t see a point in your post.

means every time someone does daily, it HARMS every other player’s economic power, ever so slightly

How about everytime someone vendors the loot they get instead of selling it on the trading post? That harms every other player’s economic power ever so slightly also yet you haven’t recommended removing vendor value from loot.

Chad.6104:

means every time someone does daily, it HARMS every other player’s economic power, ever so slightly

How about everytime someone vendors the loot they get instead of selling it on the trading post? That harms every other player’s economic power ever so slightly also yet you haven’t recommended removing vendor value from loot.

I vendor all my sigils. I’M GOING TO RUIN YOU ALL MUHAHAHAHAHA.

Sky.7610:

You should be THANKING people who are the 1%.

No.

I’m going to repeat the question. Was there a point to this thread?

Sky.7610:

Sure, you can gain wealth by simply playing the game in the ‘traditional sense’, but these people, even if they play non-stop can only be considered as well off and not the wealthiest people in the game. To be truly wealthy, you have to be playing the Trading Post and making some good investments.

I smell the real problem. IRL and ingame

Amaimon.7823:

I’m going to repeat the question. Was there a point to this thread?

it reminded me I need to log on and do my dailies before reset to get my 2 gold. that’s point enough for me.

Lahmia.2193:

Chad.6104:

means every time someone does daily, it HARMS every other player’s economic power, ever so slightly

How about everytime someone vendors the loot they get instead of selling it on the trading post? That harms every other player’s economic power ever so slightly also yet you haven’t recommended removing vendor value from loot.

I vendor all my sigils. I’M GOING TO RUIN YOU ALL MUHAHAHAHAHA.

LOL! I guess I’m helping you then, it’s too cumber sum to dump them on the TP and even if you could batch drop them all the return is meaningless, those things are worthless it’s not like they are superior vigors or anything, oddly if you compare them from a GW1 perspective would be highly more valuable if you could equip them, I guess someone in the last 250 years worked out how to mass produce them on scales not see since God invented dirt.

OriOri.8724:

Sky.7610:

OriOri.8724:

Was there a point to this post?

you’ll find the point if you read the first paragraph… the first.

I read the whole thing, and I don’t see a point in your post.

The point is, he’s rich, you know?

OriOri.8724:

Sky.7610:

OriOri.8724:

Was there a point to this post?

you’ll find the point if you read the first paragraph… the first.

I read the whole thing, and I don’t see a point in your post.

The point is, people are complaining about “evil TP barons” ruining the market and making things expensive for them. That’s a misconception. They are upset at the wrong outlet. You would of understood this if you actually understand the post.

So what? It’s just a video game. You know what makes me feel truly rich in an MMORPG? It’s not Gold or items. It’s the friends and guildies I play with.

Sky.7610:

OriOri.8724:

Sky.7610:

OriOri.8724:

Was there a point to this post?

you’ll find the point if you read the first paragraph… the first.

I read the whole thing, and I don’t see a point in your post.

The point is, people are complaining about “evil TP barons” ruining the market and making things expensive for them. That’s a misconception. They are upset at the wrong outlet. You would of understood this if you actually understand the post.

So a “don’t hate the player but hate the game” kind of thing?

The TP by definition doesn’t create wealth – it just transfers it between players, and reduces it in the process. Every bit of wealth you have from playing the TP has come from other players – by you purchasing something at one price, and selling it for a higher price – if you hadn’t meddled, the 15% would be taken once and one or the other player would be that much richer.

So no, I’m not going to sit here and let you tell me that doing dailies harms everyone else in a minor way, but you flipping ectos or leather because of the upcoming changes is somehow helping everyone. You flipping mats on the TP pricegouges the people actually playing the game – requiring that they earn more gold from the game to account for the gold that is destroyed in the TP transaction.

Speaking of – the BLTP could have a tax weekend, where none of those percentages are taken. That’d be an interesting event, I should think. Please don’t do it though, ANet. Someone will manage to obliterate a couple important markets in the process, and I’ll get blamed for it. A plague is interesting, intellectually, that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. Don’t invite the plague.

TEKnowledgy.1760:

Sky.7610:

OriOri.8724:

Was there a point to this post?

you’ll find the point if you read the first paragraph… the first.

send me some money if you like helping people lmao teasing probably more than a few 1%‘ers here i mean $50 spent on gems to sell and you’d be in the 1% in gw2 to bad real life wasnt like that bill gates be bumming money off me lol

So about that money to help the 99%?

Your missing the point. You become rich by enriching others. You are helping other in the process of becoming rich. also, your underestimating the net worth of players. $50 will not get you into the 1%.

Chad.6104:

means every time someone does daily, it HARMS every other player’s economic power, ever so slightly

How about everytime someone vendors the loot they get instead of selling it on the trading post? That harms every other player’s economic power ever so slightly also yet you haven’t recommended removing vendor value from loot.

This is definitely valid. Selling it to vendor definitely contribute to inflation than selling it to TP, where gold is actually removed. However, it’s on a much lower scale than pure liquid gold reward. Assuming 70% of people vendor their gear instead of selling on TP for maximum profit, it would take still a huge amount of effort to sell accumlate enough gear to sell to vendor to get that 2g compare to the effort require for daily completion. It’s like one is printing hundred dollar bills, while the other is printing dollar bills. You tackle the big problem first than trickle down.

aerial.7021:

I disagree, it’s not a gold sink it’s a “time sink” given enough time even with 0.01% of effort it may take you 100 years to get what you’re after but you will obtain it, example I see people popping out legendary weapons out like it’s water, but I waited I simply waited for ArenaNet to change the system not so I could get something faster but so that there was more content or depth rather to obtain that item, it took 3 years to obtain my first legendary and I’m more satisfied with the effort of obtaining it because the journey to get it was legendary, so the only thing this artificial ‘virtual’ fake market actually does is to satisfy a requirement for time sink because of a ‘lack of content’, if everything was just handed to you say within a week the game would be devoid of players because they’d get everything done and be gone in a week.

‘lack of content’ I mean in the sense of if they showered you with 1000’s of gold per hour if not by the minute, not that there is a lack of content because there is a time sink in the way.

more accurately, its a resource sink. Time is a resource. We all have limited resource and its how we use those resources that we have at our disposal that defines capitalism. In-efficient use of resource is not good for anyone. While i understand what your saying, it’s a different topic altogether to the economics of the game. It has as much merit as saying given enough time (i.e. couple hundred years) even if your a homeless beggar, you can still be a multi-millionaire. But unfortunately, we don’t have a couple hundred years. The game content and the economics of the game is different topics. I’m saying people who are rich via TP are helping the masses while ANet rewarding liquid gold is doing the opposite.

Ayrilana.1396:

Sky.7610:

OriOri.8724:

Sky.7610:

OriOri.8724:

Was there a point to this post?

you’ll find the point if you read the first paragraph… the first.

I read the whole thing, and I don’t see a point in your post.

The point is, people are complaining about “evil TP barons” ruining the market and making things expensive for them. That’s a misconception. They are upset at the wrong outlet. You would of understood this if you actually understand the post.

So a “don’t hate the player but hate the game” kind of thing?

no, I’m saying if you are upset about inflation and things being too expensive (which you have a right to be), you need to attack the root of the problem rather than the hand that is trying to fix it.

for example, you would be stating to ANet as a possible solution that you as a player would like to see less intervention on the part of ANet by scaling back liquid gold as a reward in the free market and let the market correct itself via the invisible hand. Printing money in masses might seem like a good idea in the short-term but you are the one to get hurt by it in the end.

tl;dr – market makers (“flippers”) increase the amount of gold sunk via TP fees. This, overall, makes gold more valuable and lowers TP prices.

I will agree with this much: the 15% TP fee is game-saving for the economy.

Events like Halloween, Wintersday, and New Year are great gold burns because they award “bags” which are sold in great numbers, draining gold from the economy.

I would be interested in seeing what percentage of the 15% sink is from the 1% doing flips, and what percentage is the “commoners” performing basic buys/sells. Only then can we really say if the 1% is helping the economy in the way the OP states.

cyn.2157:

The TP by definition doesn’t create wealth – it just transfers it between players, and reduces it in the process. Every bit of wealth you have from playing the TP has come from other players – by you purchasing something at one price, and selling it for a higher price – if you hadn’t meddled, the 15% would be taken once and one or the other player would be that much richer.

So no, I’m not going to sit here and let you tell me that doing dailies harms everyone else in a minor way, but you flipping ectos or leather because of the upcoming changes is somehow helping everyone. You flipping mats on the TP pricegouges the people actually playing the game – requiring that they earn more gold from the game to account for the gold that is destroyed in the TP transaction.

Speaking of – the BLTP could have a tax weekend, where none of those percentages are taken. That’d be an interesting event, I should think. Please don’t do it though, ANet. Someone will manage to obliterate a couple important markets in the process, and I’ll get blamed for it. A plague is interesting, intellectually, that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. Don’t invite the plague.

if we haven’t meddle, the 15% you saved would be meaningless, because instead of the same item being 10g due to removal of gold twice (making gold more valuable), you now have to pay 13 gold for it. No only that but people would be paying more for the same item because undervalued items are quickly purchased, leaving only the expensive ones behind, whereas in a free market, the TP players buys up the undervalue items and resell them at a profit/loss determined by the buyer themselves.

If you buy something, it is not overpriced because you were willing to pay for it, therefore proving the investor position that the item was undervalued and it was simply corrected, leaving more supply available to the public. Nobody is forcing the buyer to buy it. If they can get it cheaper from someone else or get it themselves then they can go ahead and do that. If they think its too expensive and they can afford to sell it cheaper, they are welcome to sell their supply cheaper. Nobody is stopping them. All we do is remove gold supply, increasing the purchasing power that your gold have. Which is a GOOD thing.

In regards to gold generated in the wild like daily not affecting other players negatively is illusion and is the same as disputing gravity. As common sense would dictate, as there is more of one thing, the value of that thing diminishes. If diamonds were as common as the leaves on the trees, then even that luxurious item would be virtually worthless.

juno.1840:

I will agree with this much: the 15% TP fee is game-saving for the economy.

Events like Halloween, Wintersday, and New Year are great gold burns because they award “bags” which are sold in great numbers, draining gold from the economy.

I would be interested in seeing what percentage of the 15% sink is from the 1% doing flips, and what percentage is the “commoners” performing basic buys/sells. Only then can we really say if the 1% is helping the economy in the way the OP states.

hypnotically, even if the 1% is only doing 2% of the world trade via TP, it still does not retract from the notion that they are doing something GOOD for EVERYONE by removing more gold than people who have less gold.

The goal is to educate people that limited gold = good, thereby requesting that ANet scale back on liquid gold as reward.

When gold is worth less from being over-generated, all that loss of value is just passed onto the consumer (the buyer, i.e. YOU) since the prices of items would just increase due to inflation, therefore the one absorbing the cost would be the general consumers, not the evil 1% flippers that many think is the case.

1%, huh?

Weird, I’ve never heard of you.

Sky.7610:

cyn.2157:

The TP by definition doesn’t create wealth – it just transfers it between players, and reduces it in the process. Every bit of wealth you have from playing the TP has come from other players – by you purchasing something at one price, and selling it for a higher price – if you hadn’t meddled, the 15% would be taken once and one or the other player would be that much richer.

So no, I’m not going to sit here and let you tell me that doing dailies harms everyone else in a minor way, but you flipping ectos or leather because of the upcoming changes is somehow helping everyone. You flipping mats on the TP pricegouges the people actually playing the game – requiring that they earn more gold from the game to account for the gold that is destroyed in the TP transaction.

Speaking of – the BLTP could have a tax weekend, where none of those percentages are taken. That’d be an interesting event, I should think. Please don’t do it though, ANet. Someone will manage to obliterate a couple important markets in the process, and I’ll get blamed for it. A plague is interesting, intellectually, that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. Don’t invite the plague.

if we haven’t meddle, the 15% you saved would be meaningless, because instead of the same item being 10g due to removal of gold twice (making gold more valuable), you now have to pay 13 gold for it. No only that but people would be paying more for the same item because undervalued items are quickly purchased, leaving only the expensive ones behind, whereas in a free market, the TP players buys up the undervalue items and resell them at a profit/loss determined by the buyer themselves.

If you buy something, it is not overpriced because you were willing to pay for it, therefore proving the investor position that the item was undervalued and it was simply corrected, leaving more supply available to the public. Nobody is forcing the buyer to buy it. If they can get it cheaper from someone else or get it themselves then they can go ahead and do that. If they think its too expensive and they can afford to sell it cheaper, they are welcome to sell their supply cheaper. Nobody is stopping them. All we do is remove gold supply, increasing the purchasing power that your gold have. Which is a GOOD thing.

In regards to gold generated in the wild like daily not affecting other players negatively is illusion and is the same as disputing gravity. As common sense would dictate, as there is more of one thing, the value of that thing diminishes. If diamonds were as common as the leaves on the trees, then even that luxurious item would be virtually worthless.

juno.1840:

I will agree with this much: the 15% TP fee is game-saving for the economy.

Events like Halloween, Wintersday, and New Year are great gold burns because they award “bags” which are sold in great numbers, draining gold from the economy.

I would be interested in seeing what percentage of the 15% sink is from the 1% doing flips, and what percentage is the “commoners” performing basic buys/sells. Only then can we really say if the 1% is helping the economy in the way the OP states.

hypnotically, even if the 1% is only doing 2% of the world trade via TP, it still does not retract from the notion that they are doing something GOOD for EVERYONE by removing more gold than people who have less gold.

There’s no real harm in the 2 gold from the dailies. Players do have to spend some time to do the dailies after all. It’s the only way that they can guarantee that the reward for doing all of the dailies remains at the same amount.

Any item that they put there would soon reach vendor trash due to oversupply.

That being said, as long as there are multiple flippers in the market and not just one, it’s overall good for the community.

So you correctly pinpointed the Trading Post as the ultimate, idealized rent-seeking institution and still believe that playing it brings fortune to others? Kitten economists! I bet you play a smug Asura that thinks shareholder value being prioritized is the best for everyone.

Back in GW1 one of the most expensive stuff you could get was the Armbrace of Truth, because it took at least 15 perfect runs of one of the hardest elite content (Domain of Anguish). A typical DoA run with more or less competent people could take anywhere from an hour to three. For that reason, getting one (and hence the skins associated to them) was really hard, and they were also used as a currency because we had a low gold limit. Nevertheless, apart from a duping accident, the player price for the Armbrace was more or less fixed for the entirety of the game, it didn’t change overnight or flip around harshly due to someone playing the market, precisely because there was no centralized “market”, it was all peer to peer, local transactions, the most you could do was announce it on the town chat.

Now, I think the Trading Post is very useful for what is, and it is certainly better than announcing WTS XXXXX all day long on LA or LFG, but don’t pretend that it would eventually regulate itself (I’m looking at you John Smith), or that you are getting rich by spreading value to others. You’re right, our 10 gold would be worth more if there was less gold to go around, but then Legendary weapons would be 100 gold and average players would have no means of getting that, as much as they have no means of getting 1000 right now.

What matters for the game is that people feel rewarded, regardless of the value of their gold relative to having no gold. Only the value of it relative to other people’s gold matter, because having someone so much better off than you is what brings unhappiness ( there are some studies about that going around concerning IRL wealth, and I believe it applies to everything else to a lesser extent). So, it doesn’t matter if dailies give 1 lion chest’s key to everyone or 2 gold to everyone, what matters is that there isn’t anyone next to us with materials and skins and gold 1000x more than anyone else around. Which is exactly the 1%.

Sky.7610:

hypnotically, even if the 1% is only doing 2% of the world trade via TP, it still does not retract from the notion that they are doing something GOOD for EVERYONE by removing more gold than people who have less gold.

Yes but you wouldn’t be able to walk around saying “the 1% are noble heroes!”. Instead I think you’d have to publish a retraction saying “the 99% are saving the game!”.

The 1% would have to remove over 100x what the average 99%-er is removing with their trades… and that’s just to cross the 50% mark in order to say “the 1% remove more gold from the system than the 99%”.

Also I think you meant “hypothetically” instead of “hypnotically”… unless you’re trying some sort of Asura mind trick on me

juno.1840:

I will agree with this much: the 15% TP fee is game-saving for the economy.

Events like Halloween, Wintersday, and New Year are great gold burns because they award “bags” which are sold in great numbers, draining gold from the economy.

I would be interested in seeing what percentage of the 15% sink is from the 1% doing flips, and what percentage is the “commoners” performing basic buys/sells. Only then can we really say if the 1% is helping the economy in the way the OP states.

New year doesn’t rly drain gold, envelopes give 3-4g profit a day if you buy all 16 and insta sell.

Edit: which by extension means every envelope you open on average has ~1.2g (@800MF) or more worth of junk items..

maxwelgm.4315:

So you correctly pinpointed the Trading Post as the ultimate, idealized rent-seeking institution and still believe that playing it brings fortune to others? Kitten economists! I bet you play a smug Asura that thinks shareholder value being prioritized is the best for everyone.

Back in GW1 one of the most expensive stuff you could get was the Armbrace of Truth, because it took at least 15 perfect runs of one of the hardest elite content (Domain of Anguish). A typical DoA run with more or less competent people could take anywhere from an hour to three. For that reason, getting one (and hence the skins associated to them) was really hard, and they were also used as a currency because we had a low gold limit. Nevertheless, apart from a duping accident, the player price for the Armbrace was more or less fixed for the entirety of the game, it didn’t change overnight or flip around harshly due to someone playing the market, precisely because there was no centralized “market”, it was all peer to peer, local transactions, the most you could do was announce it on the town chat.

Now, I think the Trading Post is very useful for what is, and it is certainly better than announcing WTS XXXXX all day long on LA or LFG, but don’t pretend that it would eventually regulate itself (I’m looking at you John Smith), or that you are getting rich by spreading value to others. You’re right, our 10 gold would be worth more if there was less gold to go around, but then Legendary weapons would be 100 gold and average players would have no means of getting that, as much as they have no means of getting 1000 right now.

What matters for the game is that people feel rewarded, regardless of the value of their gold relative to having no gold. Only the value of it relative to other people’s gold matter, because having someone so much better off than you is what brings unhappiness ( there are some studies about that going around concerning IRL wealth, and I believe it applies to everything else to a lesser extent). So, it doesn’t matter if dailies give 1 lion chest’s key to everyone or 2 gold to everyone, what matters is that there isn’t anyone next to us with materials and skins and gold 1000x more than anyone else around. Which is exactly the 1%.

I know some of what i have to say below may emotionally harsh but it’s the rational truth. We should be pragmatic.

Giving people what they want (enriching others before you can enrich yourself) is certainly giving people value. It’s providing people with the resources they seek at a fair market price. If the price were too low, the supply would all be gone and people who wants one can’t get it. If it was too high ,no one wants to buy it. We come in to correct the market by reselling what we think to be under-price to the market value. We are the one taking the risk for the benefit of all (naturally, we seek for self benefit but we benefit others indirectly from trying to benefit ourselves).

Yes, you are also correct that taking the best interest of the share holder IS the best interest of ALL. If share holders interest are not prioitize, why would the share holder invest in a company? If there is no investment, where is the resources to hire people or do anything? You don’t fix problem by putting other people down to your level, you fix problem by giving people the means to elevate themselves.

Also, the market would actually eventually correct itself as john had said but the problem is, ANet keeps intervening in the free market. If you don’t touch a wound, it will eventually heal but if you keep poking it, it’ll bleed again but that doesn’t mean “oh, wound healing by itself overtime is a lie!”.

juno.1840:

Sky.7610:

hypnotically, even if the 1% is only doing 2% of the world trade via TP, it still does not retract from the notion that they are doing something GOOD for EVERYONE by removing more gold than people who have less gold.

Yes but you wouldn’t be able to walk around saying “the 1% are noble heroes!”. Instead I think you’d have to publish a retraction saying “the 99% are saving the game!”.

The 1% would have to remove over 100x what the average 99%-er is removing with their trades… and that’s just to cross the 50% mark in order to say “the 1% remove more gold from the system than the 99%”.

Also I think you meant “hypothetically” instead of “hypnotically”… unless you’re trying some sort of Asura mind trick on me

but they are the hero. If someone is doing more than any other person in a person by person basis, to benefit others not the hero, then who is worthy of becoming a hero?

When a person enters a fire building to save a child, he is called a hero not because he benefit society more than the collective (which is obviously not the case) but rather that on a individual by individual basis, he does more than others. That’s what defines a hero.

Sky.7610:

OriOri.8724:

Sky.7610:

OriOri.8724:

Was there a point to this post?

you’ll find the point if you read the first paragraph… the first.

I read the whole thing, and I don’t see a point in your post.

The point is, people are complaining about “evil TP barons” ruining the market and making things expensive for them. That’s a misconception. They are upset at the wrong outlet. You would of understood this if you actually understand the post.

Lol ok whatever. Write whatever you have to in order to feel good about how you choose to play the game. Doesn’t change anything.

You said first paragraph had your point so that is all I read lmao still how about that money to help the 99% lol Come and enrich me little charity goes a long way you know lol

If the price were too low, the supply would all be gone and people who wants one can’t get it

if this is the case why do things end up at vendor value, instead of it all disappearing from the TP? surely vendor value is ‘too low’.

nottsgman.8206:

If the price were too low, the supply would all be gone and people who wants one can’t get it

if this is the case why do things end up at vendor value, instead of it all disappearing from the TP? surely vendor value is ‘too low’.

because those things are only worth vendor value. In fact, i would argue the vendor value should be 0 and people should be allow to sell it as low as 1 copper.

Sky.7610:

nottsgman.8206:

If the price were too low, the supply would all be gone and people who wants one can’t get it

if this is the case why do things end up at vendor value, instead of it all disappearing from the TP? surely vendor value is ‘too low’.

because those things are only worth vendor value. In fact, i would argue the vendor value should be 0 and people should be allow to sell it as low as 1 copper.

why would people sell something at 1 copper the fee would cost more than the sell why the tp wont let you sell things lower than a certain price you’d lose more than gain. fee would be 0.95 most of anets systems both gw1 and 2 round numbers to the nearest it be impossible to do that under current system settings server sided they would have to rework that entire mathematics system that they use may or may not be harder than it sounds as we don’t truly know what all is tapped into that entire system in gw1 damage was actually based on that system so was enchantment lengthening percentages as well as the bonus damages probably is same in gw2 whens last time you hit a mob for 1000.5 damage? in gw 1 0.5s was rolled back to the lesser of the greater so if it was 500.5 dmg be 500 dmg if it was 500.6 rounded to 501

Sky.7610:

Your missing the point. You become rich by enriching others.

No, actually, you don’t. You become richer from the work of others. And you don’t make them richer, because no matter how those 99% of players work, in the end the remaining 1% will still keep getting richer at a faster rate, only increasing the wealth spread. In the end, all that money either gets destroyed, or ends up with you, so no, you do not help anyone besides yourself.

Sky.7610:

no, I’m saying if you are upset about inflation and things being too expensive (which you have a right to be), you need to attack the root of the problem rather than the hand that is trying to fix it.

The root of the problem, for many things, is that those things are expensive because prices on them are not set by average players, but by those top 1%.

Sky.7610:

for example, you would be stating to ANet as a possible solution that you as a player would like to see less intervention on the part of ANet by scaling back liquid gold as a reward in the free market and let the market correct itself via the invisible hand.

The “invisible hand of the market” that i so often feel pilfering gold from my pockets?

Sky.7610:

Printing money in masses might seem like a good idea in the short-term but you are the one to get hurt by it in the end.

Existence of a small number of people that control 90% of the game’s wealth hurts me far, far more.

So.. trying to justify your harmful play style by saying it’s benevolent?
Ha.
Haha.
Ha.

Pricing things out of people’s reach or inflating the value of uncommon goods doesn’t really do anything for the common player. A few of their goods go up in value, but so does the value of the things they wanted to buy. So it’s no real gain for anyone except the supposedly “noble” middlemen and not-quite-brokers.

If you were really “noble”, you’d be buying the existing sell orders and delivering them at market value to the buy orders. For you see, that would still drain gold from the economy (as we all agreed would be healthy), but there wouldn’t be a selfish, ignoble profit behind it.

Tbh this thread is basically a “not so humble” brag. If you had any good points you could’ve wrote them without all the posturing lmao.

fishball.7204:

Tbh this thread is basically a “not so humble” brag. If you had any good points you could’ve wrote them without all the posturing lmao.

He reminds me of a gamer from zero online tq digital game (think it closed 2013) his name was Sky aswell sorta wonder if isnt same person he over there also was one them big spenders/braggers on games lol Also considered himself a 1%’er in that game until another rich guy came in and stole his thunder lol

so to sell high you have to buy low first, right?
correct me if I’m wrong, but if a ton of people are selling low, doesnt that devalue a good for personal gain? that would mean more and more devalued goods would have to be put in circulation to keep up with production, which means a ton of people getting paid really bad wages. of course selling low means a ton of people can afford something, but that doesnt mean all people can afford it. also if youre keen enough you can see that nothing has changed much in the course of human history, there are still 3 tiers of hierarchy: merchant, consumer, producer. pointing all fingers at the consumer is a good way to divert peoples attention from the producer.

Anet should definitely introduce a coin purse mace skin so we can heroically clobber dragons with our accumulated wealth.

who cares? who give a kitten ?

Sky.7610:

……snipped……..

There is only one word to describe you : Delusional.

What they should do is check your account and see how much total gold your account has, and if you have more then 10k gold, then the TP fee for all items jumps from 15% to 20%. If you have more then 50k gold then it should go from 20% to 25% so on and so forth, then I might believe the 1% is noble.

and yes I know you could just use alt accounts to list items to avoid the increased listing fee or just invest gold into items to lower your accounts gold count, just like RL people do with offshore accounts in the Cayman islands but hey its more work for you. GGWP

fishball.7204:

juno.1840:

I will agree with this much: the 15% TP fee is game-saving for the economy.

Events like Halloween, Wintersday, and New Year are great gold burns because they award “bags” which are sold in great numbers, draining gold from the economy.

I would be interested in seeing what percentage of the 15% sink is from the 1% doing flips, and what percentage is the “commoners” performing basic buys/sells. Only then can we really say if the 1% is helping the economy in the way the OP states.

New year doesn’t rly drain gold, envelopes give 3-4g profit a day if you buy all 16 and insta sell.

Edit: which by extension means every envelope you open on average has ~1.2g (@800MF) or more worth of junk items..

Money is not created on the TP — it’s transferred. As part of a transfer, a portion is permanently removed from the game.

When a holiday event gives you lots of free goodies that you put onto the TP, you are simply transferring the funds from someone else that wants to consume that gift. As long as the vendor value from the gift has a lesser merchant value then the TP price, then funds are drained from the economy.

It’s really the reason the economy still functions for all the players (and not just the top 1%).

So Trick-or-Treat bags, Wintersday Gifts, and New Year Envelopes are great — money just drains from the economy.

Sky.7610:

juno.1840:

Sky.7610:

hypnotically, even if the 1% is only doing 2% of the world trade via TP, it still does not retract from the notion that they are doing something GOOD for EVERYONE by removing more gold than people who have less gold.

Yes but you wouldn’t be able to walk around saying “the 1% are noble heroes!”. Instead I think you’d have to publish a retraction saying “the 99% are saving the game!”.

The 1% would have to remove over 100x what the average 99%-er is removing with their trades… and that’s just to cross the 50% mark in order to say “the 1% remove more gold from the system than the 99%”.

Also I think you meant “hypothetically” instead of “hypnotically”… unless you’re trying some sort of Asura mind trick on me

but they are the hero. If someone is doing more than any other person in a person by person basis, to benefit others not the hero, then who is worthy of becoming a hero?

When a person enters a fire building to save a child, he is called a hero not because he benefit society more than the collective (which is obviously not the case) but rather that on a individual by individual basis, he does more than others. That’s what defines a hero.

Sorry it doesn’t work that way. You cannot compare the 1% to the 99% on a one-by-one basis. There are 99 times more players in the 99% — that’s why they’re the 99%.

You have to compare each player in the 1% to 99 players of the 99%. Another way is to compare one-for-one using the average player from the 99%, but multiply their contribution by 99 (or round up to a nice 100).

Unless you (as a self-admitted top 1%) are draining 99 times more from the TP than the average 99% player, then you are not really the benevolent hero — the 99% is the hero, keeping prices low enough to maximize your profits as a 1%-er.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

What they should do is check your account and see how much total gold your account has, and if you have more then 10k gold, then the TP fee for all items jumps from 15% to 20%. If you have more then 50k gold then it should go from 20% to 25% so on and so forth, then I might believe the 1% is noble.

and yes I know you could just use alt accounts to list items to avoid the increased listing fee or just invest gold into items to lower your accounts gold count, just like RL people do with offshore accounts in the Cayman islands but hey its more work for you. GGWP

This is incredibly easy to game by holding the bulk of your “money” in items with relatively stable prices.

Ahh capitalist trying to explain why we need them in a"free" markets. It’s the most adorable things to read.

OriOri.8724:

Sky.7610:

OriOri.8724:

Was there a point to this post?

you’ll find the point if you read the first paragraph… the first.

I read the whole thing, and I don’t see a point in your post.

You actually read all of that nonsense? LoL

But seriously, the point is obvious. I’ll translate for you:

“I would like others to recognize my value to the GW2 community because having tons of gold hasn’t produced a sufficient feeling of self-worth like I thought it would.”

AliamRationem.5172:

OriOri.8724:

Sky.7610:

OriOri.8724:

Was there a point to this post?

you’ll find the point if you read the first paragraph… the first.

I read the whole thing, and I don’t see a point in your post.

You actually read all of that nonsense? LoL

But seriously, the point is obvious. I’ll translate for you:

“I would like others to recognize my self perceived and inflated value to the GW2 community because having tons of gold hasn’t produced a sufficient feeling of self-worth amount of worship from the common plebs like I thought it would.”

Ah that makes sense, but I think you were just a little bit off. Fixed it up for you there