Guild Wars 2

juno.1840:

I will agree with this much: the 15% TP fee is game-saving for the economy.

Events like Halloween, Wintersday, and New Year are great gold burns because they award “bags” which are sold in great numbers, draining gold from the economy.

I would be interested in seeing what percentage of the 15% sink is from the 1% doing flips, and what percentage is the “commoners” performing basic buys/sells. Only then can we really say if the 1% is helping the economy in the way the OP states.

LNY is a gold faucet, as the bags/envelopes drop plenty of vendor trophies. Wintersday gifts are probably also a decent gold faucet by now, as people are vendoring nougat, skulls and fangs for 25c each.

Concerning your last questions:

A someone from the 1%, I sold items worth 62.5k gold in the lst 90 days, paying 9.375k gold in taxes, so around 100 gold per day.

aerial.7021:

Lahmia.2193:

Chad.6104:

means every time someone does daily, it HARMS every other player’s economic power, ever so slightly

How about everytime someone vendors the loot they get instead of selling it on the trading post? That harms every other player’s economic power ever so slightly also yet you haven’t recommended removing vendor value from loot.

I vendor all my sigils. I’M GOING TO RUIN YOU ALL MUHAHAHAHAHA.

LOL! I guess I’m helping you then, it’s too cumber sum to dump them on the TP and even if you could batch drop them all the return is meaningless, those things are worthless it’s not like they are superior vigors or anything, oddly if you compare them from a GW1 perspective would be highly more valuable if you could equip them, I guess someone in the last 250 years worked out how to mass produce them on scales not see since God invented dirt.

I think one of the greater benefits traders and especially speculators have for the economy as a whole is keeping unwanted supply in game. Taking your worthless sigils as example:

During their first year of existance, Superior Sigils of Mischief dropped like candy and nobody wanted them. They were basically traded a little over vendor value for a whole year. If none of the speculators would have put in buy orders for those in that time, players would probably have just sold them to a vendor (not in this case, as the sigil has no vendor value) or simply destroyed them. In any case, those sigils would have been destroyed and taken out of the economy.

But as plenty of speculators put in buy orders at low values, they probably saved hundreds of thousands of superior sigils from being destroyed.

That supply hoarded by speculators considerably eased the demand spike during wintersday 2015 and also 2016 and is probably the only reason why superior sigils of mischief this year stayed below their forge value (value of mats needed to forge them) of 20g each.

As you can see from my screenshot, I sold around 16k sigils in the last 90 days for an average of 1.17g, which means the supply I bought and hoarded for more than a year, enabled 320 players to craft their essence of mischief for around 60g instead of paying 250g (5g average price for sigils during wintersday).

Without that supply from speculators, all those sigils would have to be forged from scratch, which would have consumed 20 mystic coins for each sigil.

It would have taken 320k mystic coins to create my supply of sigils this year, just imagine what that extra demand would have meant for MC prices.

Sky.7610:

OriOri.8724:

Sky.7610:

OriOri.8724:

Was there a point to this post?

you’ll find the point if you read the first paragraph… the first.

I read the whole thing, and I don’t see a point in your post.

The point is, people are complaining about “evil TP barons” ruining the market and making things expensive for them. That’s a misconception. They are upset at the wrong outlet. You would of understood this if you actually understand the post.

Haven’t seen those people yet. The people I associate with work for and share their coin

Sky.7610:

OriOri.8724:

Sky.7610:

OriOri.8724:

Was there a point to this post?

you’ll find the point if you read the first paragraph… the first.

I read the whole thing, and I don’t see a point in your post.

The point is, people are complaining about “evil TP barons” ruining the market and making things expensive for them. That’s a misconception. They are upset at the wrong outlet. You would of understood this if you actually understand the post.

I see way more often people boasting about their ingame wealth than people complaining about them.

Wanze.8410:

aerial.7021:

Lahmia.2193:

Chad.6104:

means every time someone does daily, it HARMS every other player’s economic power, ever so slightly

How about everytime someone vendors the loot they get instead of selling it on the trading post? That harms every other player’s economic power ever so slightly also yet you haven’t recommended removing vendor value from loot.

I vendor all my sigils. I’M GOING TO RUIN YOU ALL MUHAHAHAHAHA.

LOL! I guess I’m helping you then, it’s too cumber sum to dump them on the TP and even if you could batch drop them all the return is meaningless, those things are worthless it’s not like they are superior vigors or anything, oddly if you compare them from a GW1 perspective would be highly more valuable if you could equip them, I guess someone in the last 250 years worked out how to mass produce them on scales not see since God invented dirt.

I think one of the greater benefits traders and especially speculators have for the economy as a whole is keeping unwanted supply in game. Taking your worthless sigils as example:

During their first year of existance, Superior Sigils of Mischief dropped like candy and nobody wanted them. They were basically traded a little over vendor value for a whole year. If none of the speculators would have put in buy orders for those in that time, players would probably have just sold them to a vendor (not in this case, as the sigil has no vendor value) or simply destroyed them. In any case, those sigils would have been destroyed and taken out of the economy.

But as plenty of speculators put in buy orders at low values, they probably saved hundreds of thousands of superior sigils from being destroyed.

That supply hoarded by speculators considerably eased the demand spike during wintersday 2015 and also 2016 and is probably the only reason why superior sigils of mischief this year stayed below their forge value (value of mats needed to forge them) of 20g each.

As you can see from my screenshot, I sold around 16k sigils in the last 90 days for an average of 1.17g, which means the supply I bought and hoarded for more than a year, enabled 320 players to craft their essence of mischief for around 60g instead of paying 250g (5g average price for sigils during wintersday).

Without that supply from speculators, all those sigils would have to be forged from scratch, which would have consumed 20 mystic coins for each sigil.

It would have taken 320k mystic coins to create my supply of sigils this year, just imagine what that extra demand would have meant for MC prices.

Conversely, if these traders hadn’t kept this massive supply of sup sigils of mischief in the game and instead let people vendor them all, then ANet wouldn’t have removed the sigils from the drop tables of wintersday gifts due to the sheer abundance of them on the market. And since ANet wouldn’t have removed them, all of the millions of players not in the “1%” would be better off for it this year due to sigils still being insanely cheap.

You can try as hard as you want to justify why you guys are “good” for the economy, but its all bullkitten and you aren’t fooling anyone. These sigils were a problem precisely because of people like you buying and hoarding millions of them in the game, which prompted ANet to remove them from drop tables. Telling us how you lessened the problem this year that you helped to create doesn’t suddenly make you a good guy LMAO

Wanze.8410:

aerial.7021:

Lahmia.2193:

Chad.6104:

means every time someone does daily, it HARMS every other player’s economic power, ever so slightly

How about everytime someone vendors the loot they get instead of selling it on the trading post? That harms every other player’s economic power ever so slightly also yet you haven’t recommended removing vendor value from loot.

I vendor all my sigils. I’M GOING TO RUIN YOU ALL MUHAHAHAHAHA.

LOL! I guess I’m helping you then, it’s too cumber sum to dump them on the TP and even if you could batch drop them all the return is meaningless, those things are worthless it’s not like they are superior vigors or anything, oddly if you compare them from a GW1 perspective would be highly more valuable if you could equip them, I guess someone in the last 250 years worked out how to mass produce them on scales not see since God invented dirt.

I think one of the greater benefits traders and especially speculators have for the economy as a whole is keeping unwanted supply in game. Taking your worthless sigils as example:

During their first year of existance, Superior Sigils of Mischief dropped like candy and nobody wanted them. They were basically traded a little over vendor value for a whole year. If none of the speculators would have put in buy orders for those in that time, players would probably have just sold them to a vendor (not in this case, as the sigil has no vendor value) or simply destroyed them. In any case, those sigils would have been destroyed and taken out of the economy.

But as plenty of speculators put in buy orders at low values, they probably saved hundreds of thousands of superior sigils from being destroyed.

That supply hoarded by speculators considerably eased the demand spike during wintersday 2015 and also 2016 and is probably the only reason why superior sigils of mischief this year stayed below their forge value (value of mats needed to forge them) of 20g each.

As you can see from my screenshot, I sold around 16k sigils in the last 90 days for an average of 1.17g, which means the supply I bought and hoarded for more than a year, enabled 320 players to craft their essence of mischief for around 60g instead of paying 250g (5g average price for sigils during wintersday).

Without that supply from speculators, all those sigils would have to be forged from scratch, which would have consumed 20 mystic coins for each sigil.

It would have taken 320k mystic coins to create my supply of sigils this year, just imagine what that extra demand would have meant for MC prices.

But importantly you’re not coming to the forum and demanding we all express our gratitude to you for this incredibly generous public service you have undertaken on our behalf.

OriOri.8724:

Wanze.8410:

aerial.7021:

Lahmia.2193:

Chad.6104:

means every time someone does daily, it HARMS every other player’s economic power, ever so slightly

How about everytime someone vendors the loot they get instead of selling it on the trading post? That harms every other player’s economic power ever so slightly also yet you haven’t recommended removing vendor value from loot.

I vendor all my sigils. I’M GOING TO RUIN YOU ALL MUHAHAHAHAHA.

LOL! I guess I’m helping you then, it’s too cumber sum to dump them on the TP and even if you could batch drop them all the return is meaningless, those things are worthless it’s not like they are superior vigors or anything, oddly if you compare them from a GW1 perspective would be highly more valuable if you could equip them, I guess someone in the last 250 years worked out how to mass produce them on scales not see since God invented dirt.

I think one of the greater benefits traders and especially speculators have for the economy as a whole is keeping unwanted supply in game. Taking your worthless sigils as example:

During their first year of existance, Superior Sigils of Mischief dropped like candy and nobody wanted them. They were basically traded a little over vendor value for a whole year. If none of the speculators would have put in buy orders for those in that time, players would probably have just sold them to a vendor (not in this case, as the sigil has no vendor value) or simply destroyed them. In any case, those sigils would have been destroyed and taken out of the economy.

But as plenty of speculators put in buy orders at low values, they probably saved hundreds of thousands of superior sigils from being destroyed.

That supply hoarded by speculators considerably eased the demand spike during wintersday 2015 and also 2016 and is probably the only reason why superior sigils of mischief this year stayed below their forge value (value of mats needed to forge them) of 20g each.

As you can see from my screenshot, I sold around 16k sigils in the last 90 days for an average of 1.17g, which means the supply I bought and hoarded for more than a year, enabled 320 players to craft their essence of mischief for around 60g instead of paying 250g (5g average price for sigils during wintersday).

Without that supply from speculators, all those sigils would have to be forged from scratch, which would have consumed 20 mystic coins for each sigil.

It would have taken 320k mystic coins to create my supply of sigils this year, just imagine what that extra demand would have meant for MC prices.

Conversely, if these traders hadn’t kept this massive supply of sup sigils of mischief in the game and instead let people vendor them all, then ANet wouldn’t have removed the sigils from the drop tables of wintersday gifts due to the sheer abundance of them on the market. And since ANet wouldn’t have removed them, all of the millions of players not in the “1%” would be better off for it this year due to sigils still being insanely cheap.

You can try as hard as you want to justify why you guys are “good” for the economy, but its all bullkitten and you aren’t fooling anyone. These sigils were a problem precisely because of people like you buying and hoarding millions of them in the game, which prompted ANet to remove them from drop tables. Telling us how you lessened the problem this year that you helped to create doesn’t suddenly make you a good guy LMAO

They removed them from the wintersday gift drop tables in 2015 already and moved the faucet over to the festival vendor. And I bought mine before they done that.
If you think the problem was in too many reserves in the economy, you should blame the players, that sold them to me instead of deleting them.

Can you also please provide a source where Anet mentioned that they took the sigils off the drop table because there was too much supply outside the tp?

Just to understand you(OP) correctly. You’re trying to get our sympathy because guys/gals like you are saving the economy and keep things affordable for the average player and, if at all, the average player should be angry at, compared to what “the 1%’ers” have, very small, solid gold sinks for everyone like the daily rewards.

Not going to happen m8. You are not true heroes, as you put it. You just play the game your way and I hope you enjoy it. I’ll assume here, that you’re not into manipulating certain markets to get even richer and that you’re just an effective/clever flipper who has found his/her niche product, has enough wealth to flip for high enough profit and just get a kick out of the high numbers and the “I’m rich, you know” ingame-lifestyle. No problem there, be happy with it.

One of the problems I do have with 1%‘ers in RL and ind in GW2 is the total detachment from the remaining 99% when it comes to mindests and views n the world so to speak. If I had 100k gold and mats stacked in my bank, my playing experience would be very different from the average player. New skins? Sure, I’ll buy them. Oh a QoL upgrade in the Gemstore? Why not, I’ll buy it. The new Meta requires a new set of gear with new stats, *kaching, done, back to the TP.
The average player has to think about the ressources he/she has. I need to set myself a goal, “I want to get a new set of ascended armor”, “I want that Legendary/Skin/Mini/whatever”, then think about how I want to get the mats/gold together and then decide if I want to sink all that time/gold/mats into it. By doing so, I might have to skip something else, or I might have to get something later. But I know, all the daily rewards, the drops from mobs, the gold from fraktals/dungeons, etc. will sum up if I really want to go for it and don’t get distracted.
The small solid gold rewards, the festival bags, PvE-Farms, etc. make all the things on the TP, from dyes to legendaries, from skins to QoL stuff, available for everyone, given enough time invested, i.e. the game gets played. And that’s what keeps a game healthy. Not ppl who log in, buy what they want, then go back to afk’ing/flipping at the lava lounge. Also I don’t think that the 1%’ers are the same ppl who buy gems for RL-cash which is actually supporting ANet and the game.

I tried to find the image where theres a rich guy, a middle class guy and a poor guy at a table with some money on it. The rich dude grabs the lot of it with only few coins left, then turns to the middle class guy and tells him to be weary of the poor guy, he might steal the middle class guy’s money. Your post reminded me a lot of it. If you want to do something for the 99%, take your wealth and manipulate the system so that mystic coins don’t cost 1g, then I’ll thank you. Sell your stacks of leather for a 4th of what it’s going for now, then you’re doing something for the community of the game. Stop bunkering mats and spread them over tyria, the average player has a larger need in mats as only the 1%’ers care for a well filled wallet.

In a nutshell: You’re rich, we know now. Have fun with it. But don’t ask for our sympathy. Don’t fool yourself into thinking you’re doing anything for the community. You’re doing it for yourself, which is legit I think, but don’t expect our praise. Now buy me something nice, always wanted to have that Greatsaw Skin

Sky.7610:

True story.
(snip)

So we must be thankful that somebody took all our money due to AH speculations and spending them for themselves only.
I get it. Do you need my kidney too, noble sir?

lokh.2695:

…

Excellent summarized

Danikat.8537:

Wanze.8410:

aerial.7021:

Lahmia.2193:

Chad.6104:

means every time someone does daily, it HARMS every other player’s economic power, ever so slightly

How about everytime someone vendors the loot they get instead of selling it on the trading post? That harms every other player’s economic power ever so slightly also yet you haven’t recommended removing vendor value from loot.

I vendor all my sigils. I’M GOING TO RUIN YOU ALL MUHAHAHAHAHA.

LOL! I guess I’m helping you then, it’s too cumber sum to dump them on the TP and even if you could batch drop them all the return is meaningless, those things are worthless it’s not like they are superior vigors or anything, oddly if you compare them from a GW1 perspective would be highly more valuable if you could equip them, I guess someone in the last 250 years worked out how to mass produce them on scales not see since God invented dirt.

I think one of the greater benefits traders and especially speculators have for the economy as a whole is keeping unwanted supply in game. Taking your worthless sigils as example:

During their first year of existance, Superior Sigils of Mischief dropped like candy and nobody wanted them. They were basically traded a little over vendor value for a whole year. If none of the speculators would have put in buy orders for those in that time, players would probably have just sold them to a vendor (not in this case, as the sigil has no vendor value) or simply destroyed them. In any case, those sigils would have been destroyed and taken out of the economy.

But as plenty of speculators put in buy orders at low values, they probably saved hundreds of thousands of superior sigils from being destroyed.

That supply hoarded by speculators considerably eased the demand spike during wintersday 2015 and also 2016 and is probably the only reason why superior sigils of mischief this year stayed below their forge value (value of mats needed to forge them) of 20g each.

As you can see from my screenshot, I sold around 16k sigils in the last 90 days for an average of 1.17g, which means the supply I bought and hoarded for more than a year, enabled 320 players to craft their essence of mischief for around 60g instead of paying 250g (5g average price for sigils during wintersday).

Without that supply from speculators, all those sigils would have to be forged from scratch, which would have consumed 20 mystic coins for each sigil.

It would have taken 320k mystic coins to create my supply of sigils this year, just imagine what that extra demand would have meant for MC prices.

But importantly you’re not coming to the forum and demanding we all express our gratitude to you for this incredibly generous public service you have undertaken on our behalf.

I get compensated in other ways for my public service.

You should be THANKING people who are the 1%.

Yeah, they’ve been saying that in the USA for decades.

Dear OP TP Flipper and Flippers in the thread,

Thank you so much for all your help and noble ways! Without you all I’m sure the in-game economy would crumble and every item would be outside of our purchasing power!

We, the little people, truly appreciate all the TP manipulation solely on our behalf, and are so proud you are rewarded with gold, by chance of course, in the process for all these selfless actions!

I would like to propose the OP TP Flipper create a list of all those in the 1% so we can start mailing you all our daily gold reward. This way we can directly contribute to your valiant efforts!

Sincerely,

Someone who can buy all the gold I want, but would prefer to play the game as opposed to bragging on the forums about virtual gold!

Koronin.6785:

You should be THANKING people who are the 1%.

Yeah, they’ve been saying that in the USA for decades.

This is exactly what popped into my head when I saw this thread.

Why would we thank you? It’s not like u choose to donate that gold. It was just a business cost that anet forced on you. If we should thank anyone for it we should thank anet.

Your points were good though aside from the you should thank us part.

Sky.7610

Without us, the cost would be even more inaccessible to you because undervalued items are purchased quickly and you are left with expensive things to buy from instead of undervalued items being flipped at a fair market value.
…………………….
Capitalism is enriching oneself by enriching others first.

I’m confused. Please correct me if I’m wrong but this is what I understand:
Having a product on TP at a low value means that the players (not knowing what is good for them) will buy that product and finally the reserve of that product will be depleted and only products at a higher price will be available.
BUT, the “good guys” are there to save the situation. They buy ALL the low price reserve and then flips the product – at a fair price, of course. In this way the game economy is saved. The product will be available not at a low price, but at a fair one :-))

My question is: If the supply will be depleted, what makes you think that the “good guys” can sell unlimited amounts of that product – at a fair price? At one point they will end the supplies too. But, if the supply is continuous, in what way can you help me (a buyer) by selling me at a higher price?
And another unclear thing: HOW can decide the “good guys” if a product will become a limited supply one in the future to buy ALL the supply – in order to flip it at a fair price – and to save the game? Does “Insider Trader” ring you a bell?

By reading what you say about capitalism I understand that not me, but you are confused: In GW2 capitalism is not working. The economy is a communistic one, carefully planned and controlled. In some aspects this communism is very close to dictatorship.

AAAA ! – now I understand. Everything was a joke! Fine joke! And very subtle – I was close to not see the point :-)) Really amusing :-)))

Sky.7610:

Capitalism is enriching oneself by enriching others first.

No Capitalism is the freedom to enrich yourself. Enriching others is not a requirement, and if you knew your world history, you’d know that self-enrichment often involves preventing the enrichment of others.

I actually favor capitalism as a economic model, but I don’t delude myself about what happens when people start “winning” at capitalism.

Lol, this must be how wall street sleeps at night after the financial crisis.

Me and my friend are in gw2efficiency’s 1% and we don’t flip, huh, i didn’t know you needed to flip to be ‘rich’.

I don’t see too many complaining about the wealthiest people in game tbh. To me this thread seems like someone is just fishing for brags and compliments because of their “huge” service to the game while trying to rustle a few jimmies. Dude, you’re just a part of the game’s economy like everybody else.