Guild Wars 2

Son of Elias.5420:

So? If you don’t want them, don’t buy them. If someone wants them, they’ll buy them. Presto, everyone is happy.

I’ve never seen someone complain this much about stuff going on sale before.

If you see someone trying to sell ice to eskimo’s, you’ll point and laugh too and question the logic behind it.

If you see someone trying to sell ice to eskimo’s at a 25% discount, you’re also gonna point and laugh, as well as question the logic behind it.

@ Son of Elias. I think you are missing the point of the post. Sales are good. Sales are great! What I am saying is that Anet has not done enough to earn the continued support of the community. They seem to be prioritising their goal to make money through the gem store, rather than being more open with the community, which is where the money really comes from.

Omen.1879:

@ Son of Elias. I think you are missing the point of the post. Sales are good. Sales are great! What I am saying is that Anet has not done enough to earn the continued support of the community. They seem to be prioritising their goal to make money through the gem store, rather than being more open with the community, which is where the money really comes from.

I think you lack a little insight into how the process of communicating to the community works as opposed to a markdown in items as part of a sales push. The fact that a sale has been put on does not mean that their “priority” is making money over communicating. TL;DR in case people don’t read further – communications in general is a complex process that is carefully approached, and more isn’t always better because of the highly critical nature of players.

A lot of people have called on ANet to communicate more to their customers, when the process for communication is something that isn’t approached lightly. A simple matter of talking more isn’t always the best strategy to approach when communicating with your playerbase.

Why? Because the players are ravenous and devour and dissect every bit of every developer communication out there. As few as 3 or 4 words are enough to throw the community into an uproar even if the intent of the communication is nowhere near what the uproar is about. When you have players who’ve become highly critical and highly analytic about the games that are played, you’d better believe that developers are more cautious about their communications.

Generally, every communication that is publicly granted is put through a vetting and approval process, and the time varies depending on what can be said, what the community is feeling, what the overall state of affairs is for a situation or the game, and what’s been approved as allowed to communicate. The people on the developer side who are able to post in response to the players all need to be on the same page in this regard. And more is generally not always better. If one developer communicates about an upcoming feature that isn’t ready for prime time from another developer’s team, it’s a problem. If an answer from a developer is off because of tone, because of the context, or because it doesn’t fit the question, that’s also a problem. And, I hate to say this, but players don’t have the insight into the development process they think they do, so frequent “inside baseball” answers to questions, especially when they aren’t satisfactory to players, create more harm than good. Look at the numerous posts that came up when the class design vision posts came up, for example.

There’s more, but in short – messaging to the community isn’t as easy as answering questions more or being on the forums more. It’s a process, and in many cases is driven by the overall timeline and direction of many moving parts.

Could the communication be better, and the process streamlined a bit? Sure – you should always look to improve your messaging agility and how you do so. I think that ANet could do a bit better with responding about exploits (the snowflake thing and karma exploiting in general needs improvement so players know what not to do), messaging about hotbutton issues, and being careful about promising fixes that end up taking longer than thought (Fractal DC’s comes to mind).

But the two flaws in your argument are the connection between a sale and communication as priorities (they’re not even really related – sales is a process too but hardly with the dynamic, unpredictable element of people and messaging to take into account) and the implied idea that communications is somehow as simple as talking more, when so much more goes into it.

As for the statements from several people about working in the industry, let’s just say I know a little something about this and I feel that my original argument is well warranted.

If you do “know a little something”, then you should know that there’s something more to the studio development shop, and be a little less accusatory with thread titles like “why should I give you more money?”. Constructive communication to peers and an understanding about how things might work differently go a longer way than taking a distasteful tone in your criticism.

Omen.1879:

@Horrorscope. Thanks, I appreciate your opinion on the matter. To clarify, the distaste in my statement about Anet going on holidays more had the intention that I do not believe they have enacted their priorities correctly leading up to and including that event. This is my opinion that has been developing since the August release and I was merely identifying that this was the time period and circumstance where it really hit hard for me personally.

As for the statements from several people about working in the industry, let’s just say I know a little something about this and I feel that my original argument is well warranted.

So they released a festive holiday event for us which considering the issues with the Lost Cause debacle, was actaully pretty decent imo…. but your throwing toys out the pram cos ANet allowed its employees to take a well earned holiday break for christmas – do you not see how childish and ungrateful your sounding.

Just curious, seeing you say you know a bit about the industry, were you made to work over the festive period or were you snuggled up to your PC playing GW2.. lets ponder on that shall we.
And what the heck is wrong with ANet promoting a few days of sale items in their cashop… IMO there needs to be more sales, more regualr cos maybe then I could be tempted to part with some coin… seeing as I am not forced to give ANet any in the first place… afterall its a business that is required to generate profits somehow.

No, sorry this post is nothing more than a childish whine based on nothing of consequence. All MMO’s keep their content underwraps until they deem the time is right to release some info, and even then its normally done in piecemeal fashion to hook players in a little longer… many times I have seen things be said only for deadlines to be stretched beyond the original statements, content removed etc etc and then forums across the Interweebs become fueled with hate this, hate that, its a joke, cant delive blah blah blah….devil if they do, devil if they dont (and its been a holiday season so no, I dont expect too much to happen over that period full stop, likely just a skeleton crew to support the game in case of critical issues.

ANET have said something is coming soon… learn to be patient and it will come… I mean, many of us dont mind a little suprise once in a while.

My god, you people will complain about anything.

@Mouse. I strongly disagree. The events are very connected. We have a lot of effort going into the gem store in an effort to generate more revenue, but we have not nearly seen enough communication from Anet about how this revenue is intended to develop the game. This goes back to my original point that they need to be more open about their plans in order to expect that players will make an investment in them.

On another note, the “when it’s ready” mentality just doesn’t fly anymore. People are always saying that the development process can change and then timelines change and the community might get upset etc etc etc. This is business: You commit to a project, you deliver by your deadline. Think about it, you’re not going to buy a TV from someone if they say, “Yes I can sell it to you, but I’m just not sure when I can so stay tuned! Also, even though you have no idea what the TV will be like I’m sure you’re going to love it!”

There is no room for leniency in this industry because not delivering in a timely manner is just poor Project Management, simple as that.

Omen.1879:

@ Son of Elias. I think you are missing the point of the post. Sales are good. Sales are great! What I am saying is that Anet has not done enough to earn the continued support of the community. They seem to be prioritising their goal to make money through the gem store, rather than being more open with the community, which is where the money really comes from.

Your opinion I guess, but just so were clear, your not the voice of the playing community and you have no idea if that is how players feel so your " Anet has not done enough to earn the continued support of the community" statement is nothing more than wild assumption.
Forums dont even make up 1% of the playerbase, even less the number of replies within this post supporting your claim…. sorry to sound harsh but imo your statements are based off nothing more than conjecture really.

So I guess the harsh reality is, ANet aren’t going to implement a policy of spoon feeding its players with scraps of updates every few days so you have reached a fork in the road…. do you go left and head off into the sunset and attempt to find an MMO that does it any differently for you, or go right and keep playing the game even though your getting all bitter and twisted about, well, about nothing really.

@Bloodstealer. Your twisted interpretation of the post is not welcomed. Please review the content of the thread and understand its true intentions before making comments that are not relevant to the argument.

Well after the free monthly updates and a sale on the only other way for them to make money beyond the initial GW2 purchase, I’m very happy. In other MMO’s I never felt like I was getting my monthly fee worth of new stuff to do each month while in this game, even if I dislike a content update, I’m okay with it because I never gave up more money and got way more out of the game then most $60 games. Don’t treat this like you would with subscription games because, if you want, you can just pay the $60 for the base game and enjoy free content updates or just leave for another game like you would with any other game once you “complete” it. I’m happy with a discount on more character slots so I can try out every profession. Welcome to the joys of a free-to-pay model and looking forward to the unexpectedly often free content.

Omen.1879:

There is no room for leniency in this industry because not delivering in a timely manner is just poor Project Management, simple as that.

It’s the immediate judgment with which you rush to how things operate that is the precise reason why communication is handled with a scalpel rather than with a sledgehammer. That was part of my point. You’re also misinterpreting “when it’s ready” project/development milestone execution with “when it’s appropriate” as it relates to when and how to communicate with players – I meant the latter, not the former, and when it comes to communications, it’s always a matter of “when it’s appropriate” and not “when it’s ready”, which are two vastly different things.

Without an idea into not just what the timeline is but how the timeline is being executed, something that only working at the studio gives us the pleasure of having, the credibility of we players to judge how well they are communicating or executing their milestones only goes so far. I personally think you’re taking it a bit beyond your ability to judge, considering I still strongly disagree that a sales project that has been executed separately from the communication philosophy is somehow connected to their priorities. Have your opinion and be welcome to it, but don’t purport to understand how their priorities are being set in so extreme a manner.

We’ll pretty much agree to disagree, since your mind’s pretty made up and so is mine.

Omen.1879:

@Bloodstealer. Your twisted interpretation of the post is not welcomed. Please review the content of the thread and understand its true intentions before making comments that are not relevant to the argument.

My interpretation of your post is not twisted at all. and is very relevant.. unless by that you mean that if people dont conform to your point of view we must all be wrong and your right.

Sorry I dont play that way!

You have made clear your frustrations around how YOU percieve the game is being manipulated. Well sorry, but any company in business will ultimately look at ways to make $$$ and that is their primary funtion… its not some charitable donation to us.

Communicating out details of their planned content before they are ready to might sound great to you but when the deadline suddenly gets stretched or content is pulled.. then I bet you will be the first to come here and cuss them.. if you think ANet are doing things any differently to the vast majority of MMO’s then sorry but you might wanna go check out WoW, SWToR, LotRo. Warhammer, DCUO.. see how many forums posts you can pull up with this same old “you dont talk to us, you wont tell us posts”, closely followed by the" why is there no update today, where is such and such content, blah blah blah"….

An MMO is not a TV set or a car what happens when its coded and tested can be quite different to how it behaves when its placed under live loadings, as we have already seen many times over in every MMO since year dot…. then again even TV’s have manufacturing issues from time to time and miss deadlines – its certainly not unheard of for a retailer to have to make excuses to its customers and have to reschedule delivery etc – sorry to rain on your ideal world analogy there.

You think cos ANet promote sales after the holidays, and showing very little to no presence on here over that same period that they are steering the game wrong.. no I dont subscribe to your statements simply because I understand they are a business that utilises sales to promote hooks of business opportunity and offer their employees a holiday once in a while.

I personally prefer to have structured updates from them when the time is right .. if after an extended period of time their is still nothing then we can revisit this but since August content, patching, special events etc have been pretty consistant and communicated in an ordely timely fashion imo. the only blot that I was not overly happy about was the rushed through Lost Cause event, likely done to ensure its players didnt begin raising their arms up and heading out to the forums armed with their pitchforks.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Ruan Jacobz.1398:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Or are you telling me that you spend money at cash shop even if you don’t need anything from it, just to support company?

I actually do this, just because I think they deserve it. I don’t even buy anything with my gems.

Yes, sadly in a world where game developers deserve money giveaways more than hungry children in Africa opinions like this are not rare. I mean they made great entertainment, unlike that kid which only dug out blood diamond that western women love so much…
If you dont want your money better give it to UNICEF not a game company that got paid for their work anyway, thats what i think.

Personally I like to know where my money is going and to know that about 10 cents to the dollar (best case scenario) actually make it though processing to the needy isn’t quite what I call generosity or money well spent. You can hardly blame western women for the diamond trade alone, kind of stereotypical there. You can add to that the fragile world economy so I’m all for let’s take care of ourselves (families) and our respective countries, keep our economies alive so we don’t become 3rd world countries ourselves. Is that selfish? Probably. Realistic? Definitely. Socially acceptable? Meh! That being said there is a program where I work to send clothing to the needy, which we do every year! Hard to skim away 90% that way

Most of us work hard for our money and spend carefully. Now I don’t mind supporting something but I need a return on what I pay for. This game has bugs, short comings and less than vocal devs about the changes coming, being a new game this can be expected it’s unpleasant to live through but it’s growing pains and should be fixed in the future.

Will I give them my money if I want something that’s on sale? Probably. I will not however give them money just for the sake of padding their (investor’s) pockets with no or little return other than virtual items I don’t really need.

Sales are just that sales, take advantage or not it’s our choice not theirs.

jblade.6470:

Well after the free monthly updates and a sale on the only other way for them to make money beyond the initial GW2 purchase, I’m very happy. In other MMO’s I never felt like I was getting my monthly fee worth of new stuff to do each month while in this game, even if I dislike a content update, I’m okay with it because I never gave up more money and got way more out of the game then most $60 games. Don’t treat this like you would with subscription games because, if you want, you can just pay the $60 for the base game and enjoy free content updates or just leave for another game like you would with any other game once you “complete” it. I’m happy with a discount on more character slots so I can try out every profession. Welcome to the joys of a free-to-pay model and looking forward to the unexpectedly often free content.

This player get it… there is no outlay past the intial box set, revenue streams need to then be generated within the game somehow to keep the game viable but nowhere does it state you must spend money – then again on the flipside nowhere does it state that ANet will provide weekly, monthly, yearly updates or a regular forum update on what each team is doing this week.

I bet many players do just buy the game and never spend a penny beyond it, and that’s the risk/reward model that the game has been structured around so attached to it they need to develop hooks along the way.

I have been 50/50 on how I feel about the gem store, and was reading this thread pretty intently, and then you guys started talking about bread. A lot.

Video games aren’t bread. And if this was bread, it’s still pretty fresh for being 4 months old (older if you count the VERY open beta). I’m happy with the game. I’m not 100% happy with the micro transactions, but I’ve been buying some of them anyway.

And just so you know, I buy about a loaf of bread every week at about 2 dollars a loaf. So if GW2 was to be compared to my bread, I’ve eaten 32 dollars worth of bread and 100 dollars worth of game (including the gems I’ve bought) within the last 4 months. And while I’m enjoying the game more than the bread, I don’t know if I’m enjoying it 3 times as much…

TL;DR = I like the game, I’m 50/50 about the way the gem store is being run, and I fully support them having sales, because why are sales a bad thing?

Ickorus.4518:

My god, you people will complain about anything.

And I’d bet money that 90%+ of the GW2 population gets ALL their communcations via the little box that appears in the loading screen.

So a gripe about “no communications — then asking for money” is really a non-issue.

But whatever, kitten/moan away…1st world problems. I got popcorn.

garraeth.3267:

Ickorus.4518:

My god, you people will complain about anything.

And I’d bet money that 90%+ of the GW2 population gets ALL their communcations via the little box that appears in the loading screen.

So a gripe about “no communications — then asking for money” is really a non-issue.

But whatever, kitten/moan away…1st world problems. I got popcorn.

lack of comprehension of the term “subjective” much?

Hellkaiser.6025:

lack of comprehension of the term “subjective” much?

Subjectively a non-issue.
/popcorn

I don’t think you understand how game design works.

Everything is subject to change until it’s release (and even after it’s released)

If anet released too much information then they’d be shooting themselves in the foot, since something would inevitably be changed and thus lead to infinite forum QQ.

True, Wasabi. That’s one of the reasons why Valve hasn’t said crap about Half-Life 3.

garraeth.3267:

Hellkaiser.6025:

lack of comprehension of the term “subjective” much?

Subjectively a non-issue.
/popcorn

likewise, subjectively an issue.

Game isn’t f2p when you have to pay $60 to play in the first place.

Just sayin’

This isn’t aimed at OP btw.

Dishonored is f2p. You don’t have to buy the dlc.

Balance is the key here.

The moment a concensus grows that the players begin to feel they are spending too much money, usually indicates that the body which the money flows to is being greedy.

TheUndefined.1720:

As a player, I really don’t feel that I’m priority at all. That, definitely needs to change this year.

This sums up how a lot of the playerbase feel. Anet are managing to alienate their customers and make us feel unappreciated !

:(

Son of Elias.5420:

True, Wasabi. That’s one of the reasons why Valve hasn’t said crap about Half-Life 3.

Valve is like Blizzard and runs on a special sort of time that us normal mortals are unable to comprehend. To try to convert it into the ways we understand time would only cause confusion and outrage.

I don’t get what you’re demanding? The devs made quite clear they will be releasing info on what they plan on releasing/work on and the forthcoming content will be comparable to a whole expansion. Aside from bug fixes/balancing, they always told us beforehand content updates – halloween, lost shores, and christmas were huge content. And some saying for Anet to disclose what they’re doing with money earned is rediculous… Of course they had some accounting/sales figures that take into account how many people might pay to keep the game and staff alive, and are taking in info to evaluate, especially since the game is still new.

Phantax.1369:

TheUndefined.1720:

As a player, I really don’t feel that I’m priority at all. That, definitely needs to change this year.

This sums up how a lot of the playerbase feel. Anet are managing to alienate their customers and make us feel unappreciated !

:(

And how does Anet work on showing that the player is “appreciated”? …

I’m beginning to feel more and more that Anet is the one being unappreciated..

GUYS! Seriously.. Knowing anet and what they did for GW.. Do you really think they will deliver less with GW2? Seriously..? I mean.. do any of you have any reason to doubt anet for not making this game better every day, in all directions? Seriously?
This game is just released, really. Given the size and the content it should be enough until now. And if you guys, like me, read between the lines, well.. even read the lines.. you would know that anet is working on loads of stuff! LOADS!! But they cant keep commenting on every step because like they said, it steals time from them to actually make the stuff. Yes, sure they could tell us more, but really.. is it necessary? You dont believe they are doing all they can to produce this game to be the most epic ever?

There are things that should be fixed and there are stuff that is missing. But come on.. have faith! For sure it will all be here. No game in history of this size and quality was ever this polished and promising at release date, FOR SURE!

We will all have our bread and eat it to!

One hand washes the other. The moment they start divulging more specific info and making good on promises as outlined in pre-release and AMA, also fixing bugs instead of releasing new content ON TOP of bugs, the more we’ll start to invest our trust back into them.

(clink)

wildcode.5403:

I had this nice post written up and forums made me re-log in so to try again.

The op has a point, I have been pouring my hard earned cash into the game both with halloween and wintersday (I didn’t have to) so I could try to obtain some of the novelty items, often without success so spent even more money. And with all that money flowing into ArenaNet, I was expecting an expansion within the first part of this year (assumption on my part) to include another race and new areas. But instead of some sugar for those who have supported this game financially, we’ve been given a little vinegar instead.

From what ArenaNet have said we can assume they want to bring people back to the less populated areas by adding new content to those areas. The concern is that while initially the novelty of the new content will bring players to those areas, once the novelty wears off players will go back to what they are doing now, unless those areas are just as profitable with the same effort as the higher populated areas. And with issues with the current loot mechanics compounding the situation as it stands now, the new content in existing areas to bring people back to them is feeling a little gimmicky.

Why did I pay for GW2? To be entertained and captivated.

Why I have paid additional money into GW2? Because I believe that ArenaNet will deliver on content that will keep me captivated.

Will I keep throwing money at ArenaNet? Only if new content is not gimmicky and current issues do get resolved.

woah you expected a new race by the first half of this year? You dont understand how mmos work or how long they take.

My opinion is that claiming it is disrespectful to run a sale in the current circumstances, that it is not good business to do so, indicates a lack of understanding of how business works, not some deep insight into how it should.

Sales in a physical store setting are easy to understand. They are used to get rid of stock that was not selling at a higher price, or to entice people into the store where they might also buy other things. In an online virtual items store, neither condition applies. However, there is a third condition that applies to both. This involves people acting to get something they want while it is at a lower price. The store profits, because those customers might not have spent for those items at the higher price. The customers profit because they get something they wanted for “less.”

As for those players who are in wait-and-see mode about GW2 (i.e, they won’t spend any more money until they see where the game is going), this sale was not aimed at you. No game company is going to be able to do anything that will apply to/appeal to all of their potential customers.

Lazarus.1083:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Ruan Jacobz.1398:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Or are you telling me that you spend money at cash shop even if you don’t need anything from it, just to support company?

I actually do this, just because I think they deserve it. I don’t even buy anything with my gems.

Yes, sadly in a world where game developers deserve money giveaways more than hungry children in Africa opinions like this are not rare. I mean they made great entertainment, unlike that kid which only dug out blood diamond that western women love so much…
If you dont want your money better give it to UNICEF not a game company that got paid for their work anyway, thats what i think.

Personally I like to know where my money is going and to know that about 10 cents to the dollar (best case scenario) actually make it though processing to the needy isn’t quite what I call generosity or money well spent. You can hardly blame western women for the diamond trade alone, kind of stereotypical there. You can add to that the fragile world economy so I’m all for let’s take care of ourselves (families) and our respective countries, keep our economies alive so we don’t become 3rd world countries ourselves. Is that selfish? Probably. Realistic? Definitely. Socially acceptable? Meh! That being said there is a program where I work to send clothing to the needy, which we do every year! Hard to skim away 90% that way

Most of us work hard for our money and spend carefully. Now I don’t mind supporting something but I need a return on what I pay for. This game has bugs, short comings and less than vocal devs about the changes coming, being a new game this can be expected it’s unpleasant to live through but it’s growing pains and should be fixed in the future.

Will I give them my money if I want something that’s on sale? Probably. I will not however give them money just for the sake of padding their (investor’s) pockets with no or little return other than virtual items I don’t really need.

Sales are just that sales, take advantage or not it’s our choice not theirs.

Only thing is that many economys are doing well because they loot resources of weaker countrys. Loot is right word to use, Libya anyone? Its just latest case in series of same war scenario. Need some Syrian oil? Lets arm mercenaries and say they are freedom fighters, and there we go…
But im going far offtopic here so i will stop there.
On topic, as far as cash shop goes it is in no way beeing prioritized to further developement of game. As ANet said, they have alot of teams working on various stuff, so they are not more focused on cash shop than developement and communication.
I cant understand ppl that say there is lack of communication since i dont feel it. On other hand if you are not happy with current state of game, hardly any list of future plans will make you happy, you are grasping for straw!