Guild Wars 2

People complain about lack of endgame and then people complain you have to grind too much to get endgame rewards. That seems rather contradictory to me.

I’ve come to the conclusion that some people just like to complain. Instead of listening to them, just continue to play the game and have fun like you are now.

they do not worry me a bit. It has never been different with any MMORPG I played, there just is a playertype (I have no intention to attack them in any way, legitimate as any other playstlye) that will fastlane any content and game companies just cannot offer infinte content. Do not jump on the gloompart, see for yourself if you enjoy what anet tried here.

Yah, look at any MMO forum and you’ll see the same posts. People will complain about anything.

Agreed. Anet, PLEASE don’t listen to the whiners. Most of us are having loads of fun as-is. Keep to the vision that you made.

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

People complain about lack of endgame and then people complain you have to grind too much to get endgame rewards. That seems rather contradictory to me.

I’ve come to the conclusion that some people just like to complain. Instead of listening to them, just continue to play the game and have fun like you are now.

This is exactly right.

End game is going fine for me still enjoying the game.

[Stated as 100% my opinion – just want to make that clear up front]

The complaints are semi-valid for the most part, BUT ill worded.

I’ve hit 80. There’s a lot of stuff to do. Problem is, most of it is not fun or lacks a reason/point to do it. Now, let me explain my saying this.

It’s a mental thing. So, it wont change through debate. Up to 80, we always have something new popping up. New areas, new “shinnies”, new enemies, etc. At 80 this stops. And it stops suddenly.
I loved the journey. LOVED it. When I hit 80, I was suddenly put against the most boring, uninteresting foes (Risen) I’ve ever seen in a video game. And they are ALL over the place in Orr making the area irritating and annoying. So the End Game area is “bleh” at best.
Dungeons are a train wreck. Difficulty is way up there and yet, rewards are below what I would get in Queensdale Events. People say “l2p” – I can tell you, you will get cheesed in these dungeons now and then. A one shot ranged arrow or trap and down you go. It will happen. Repair costs then siphon most of the coin earned. – This is simply a balance issue with rewards; and surely Anet will address it. But until then, I see Dungeons as playgrounds for masochists.

Now, I could go back in lower level areas and check out the events again or just “have fun”. However, the rewards do not scale with the increased cost of way points. Costs me ~4s to use a way point to join friends in lower level areas. Drops and rewards from events still pay out copper. Takes a long time to then recoup the costs of joining friends. This artificially limits my time to areas where pay outs vs way points don’t siphon my cash. Again, this is a balance issue and am hoping Anet fixes the reward scaling so that 80’s can more freely travel the world and “play for fun”.

Anyway, don’t fret it. There’s lots to do, needs some tweaking and balancing is all. Lots of kinks and while the complaints we are reading are valid; they are mostly just not worded well.

LOL. What is the end game you all speak of? Dungeon grinding for weak skins? Crafting? B/c thats pointless. Items crafted cost more to make than you can sell them for. Look, I truely truely love gw2. As a single player game. I feel like i should have more to do than i actually do at 80. In 286 hrs my toon is done. Gear, weapons, everything. So normally i could make my end game farming. B/c i enjoy that. But you can only farm orr for 30 minutes before the farm code kicks in. Going to lower lvl zones is 100% unrewarding in any way shape or form. So whats left. PvP? Nope not a pvp player. World bosses? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Whats the point? No achievement, no loot, same karma and xp i get from a 5 minute DE anywhere. Iwas just hoping Anet would have not screwed with so much. So fast. Especially the farm code. You can do better with the bots. Stop punishing us for their behavior. That is the lack of end game. Once you 100% GG. I tried makling an alt but after already doing every heart and piece of content once. Its really hard to repeat the same thing again and again. So just b/c your ideas of fun are wasting money in dungeons and repeating the same things. Doesnt mean everyone else is wrong. Everyone enjoys something diffrent. Anyway. Im happy that you all like the lack of reward for doing anything. Ill keep an eye on your names to see what ur posting in a month when u catch up.

Define fun.

You simply can’t do it for anyone other than yourself. Some peeps find it by rushing to cap. Others find it in a slow progress of multiple alts, crafting and exploring. Or RP with all of the above thrown in for good measure.

Thats why you have to take all these posts with a grain of salt. Which is, I hope, what ANet is doing and not letting the rampant negativity of some people affect their decisions.

GW2 was not conceived as another mainstream MMO. Nor implemented as such. And all the same posters that have been screaming for something different all these years have found out that they really don’t like anything different afterall.

Game has been out for 3 weeks…

That’w why I hope the first expansion doesn’t raise the level cap and all the maps are balanced for lvl 80 players with lvl 80 loot drops.
Then, there won’t be any more whining about end game lacking. The entire game will be truly end-game.

Contrary to the OP, GW2, like most MMOs, has a certain vision in place for “endgame” activities. Some find those activities enjoyable; others don’t. I put myself in the latter category. Performing tons of repetitive tasks, i.e., “grinding”, just to make my character’s appearance look different doesn’t have much appeal to me. Neither do achievements nor “exploring” (I can satisfy my exploring itch by visiting new locales in other MMOs).

GW2 marketed itself as a different MMO, but in my opinion based on playing MMOs since the late 90s, it’s not really all that much different. It’s fortunate the game has no monthly fee as I’d have unsubscribed after the first 2 months.

If purchases and logins begin to drop precipitously, then Anet should consider feedback like mine and the OPs, but for now, I grant they have little reason to.

Oh they have reason to. Once the community makes an exodus from an MMO, its nearly impossible to get them back. Yes, there will always be a dedicated, hardcore following, but the core MMO crowd will be gone. I’m pretty sure Anet wants to keep that crowd around.

Until there’s actually evidence of an exodus, Anet need not worry. Every MMO has its share of vociferous malcontents, and until game purchases and logins significantly decline, I don’t expect Anet to make any significant changes. For all we know, the vast majority of GW2 players prefer Anet’s endgame vision.

Jumping puzzles and map completion are dumb.

Most of us just want to get the pve over and pvp

flynn.4193:

Until there’s actually evidence of an exodus, Anet need not worry. Every MMO has its share of vociferous malcontents, and until game purchases and logins significantly decline, I don’t expect Anet to make any significant changes. For all we know, the vast majority of GW2 players prefer Anet’s endgame vision.

Your statement couldnt be more false. Look at fansites and this forum. There is so much complaining about loot etc etc. Ive seen games forums do this and i can tell you where they are now. either decomissioned or F2P. I am seeing and hearing more problems than likes. The game is young. But for those of us who arent still lvling its a diffrent game. So if u havnt been 80 for a few weeks you probably shouldnt comment on “end game.”

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

People complain about lack of endgame and then people complain you have to grind too much to get endgame rewards. That seems rather contradictory to me.

I’ve come to the conclusion that some people just like to complain. Instead of listening to them, just continue to play the game and have fun like you are now.

Every mmo has a grind in it somewhere, the problems is when they add the insanely large grind ( which I like BTW) and then add systems that artificially make that grind longer(anti-farm code/ and this new dungeon change)

So now we are stuck in the middle with a large grind that Anet wont even let us do.

Contest locusts are always hungry.

286h in less than a month.
you are a minority, and anet wont help you cathering to your addiction.
unless another company, that creates games that are
like slot machine, always the same content but the illusion of progress.

take it easy! GW2 cares for you!

You should be worried, so should anyone who likes this game and wants to see it succeed. Three major games launched this year and all three of them were accused of a lack of things to do at max level . All three are doing poorly, consolidating servers and two of those have either changed business model or have talked about it. There is major competition out there and bored people will not stay.

All the diminishing return mechanics in this game designed to combat bots are poorly implemented hurting players more than the intended bots. Dungeons are too hard to be fun and you can’t do most of them (explore) with pugs. Not everyone, in fact I’d say most, have people just waiting around able and willing to run dungeons when they are able/want to. Not having content friendly to the masses is a huge nail in the coffin of a game. Rewards for low level content don’t scale at all and drops don’t scale enough. It’s simply not worth the time invested to complete low level content.

Unless Arena Net plans to mirror the events of other games launched earlier this year, they need to swallow some serious pride and make some changes. Anyone that cares about this game should be worried, because it’s only been a few weeks and the calls of bored people are turning into the roar of the bored masses. When it gets quiet, it won’t be because everyone is suddenly happy unless things change, quickly. Especially with the way this game is designed and how events work, low population will be even worse than other games.

Death Aggro.9602:

flynn.4193:

Until there’s actually evidence of an exodus, Anet need not worry. Every MMO has its share of vociferous malcontents, and until game purchases and logins significantly decline, I don’t expect Anet to make any significant changes. For all we know, the vast majority of GW2 players prefer Anet’s endgame vision.

Your statement couldnt be more false. Look at fansites and this forum. There is so much complaining about loot etc etc. Ive seen games forums do this and i can tell you where they are now. either decomissioned or F2P. I am seeing and hearing more problems than likes. The game is young. But for those of us who arent still lvling its a diffrent game. So if u havnt been 80 for a few weeks you probably shouldnt comment on “end game.”

Yeah, but nobody cares about those complaints. These people are geeing each other up in an empty room.

They don’t understand that NOBODY CARES ABOUT THEIR PRECIOUS, BORING OPINIONS ABOUT THE “ENDGAME”. Their opinions carry no weight here because this isn’t a subscription game. They and their ilk have no leverage whatsoever. Forum angst has no weight here, because absolutely nothing hangs on it, Anet doesn’t care whether these people carry on playing or not, because THEY ALREADY HAVE THESE PEOPLES’ MONEY, and they’re going to make the game the way they want to make it (and thank God for that – games designed by forum whiners are a million times worse than games designed by developers).

And let’s face it, anyone who says they haven’t gotten $60 worth of entertainment out of the game is a barefaced liar.

The game is a take it or leave it deal. kitten off if you don’t like it.

thing is… devs have to be careful.
its true that those freaky no-lifers playing 24/24 are a bit whinny…
but, eventually, the mass will come to this conclusion too.

the best thing to do for Anet is to release new content just before the main mass finishes the current content.
this way, they keep the current players addicted, and new players have even more content to go thru!

the heavy playing minority is, while good beta-testers, unsatiable. like druug addicts. they consume it too much, they want more, they feel bad, rinse and repeat.

The unhappy minority is much more vocal than the happy majority!

Yes, I’m sure that’s what people in Star Wars said just before everyone left. And the happy majority, as we all know, lives happily ever after in whatever game they are now playing.

Oxe.6142:

Yes, I’m sure that’s what people in Star Wars said just before everyone left. And the happy majority, as we all know, lives happily ever after in whatever game they are now playing.

But Star Wars was a subscription MMO, so the comparison is inapt. You can’t “leave” GW or GW2 in any way that affects Arenanet’s bottom line, because you’ve already paid them all the money you’re going to pay them for the game as it is atm.

It’s an empty threat.

If you’ve gotten bored with GW2, it’s costless both for you and for Arenanet if you just stop playing, and it’s also costless for you, and virtually costless for Arenanet, if you come back again if and when you get a hankering to revisit the bits you did enjoy.

It’s a totally different psychology from a subscription-based game. The typical “pattern” for MMOs doesn’t apply here. You can drop it when you’re bored, and pick it up again when you remember the fun you did have.

You aren’t obliged to try and get your money’s worth for month after month, and therefore to pester the developers to provide something that entertains you 24/7 for month after month. Nor are the developers obliged to accommodate people who have that mindset of “entertain us continuously month after month” – thereby dragging the integrity of the concept of a virtual world down to the level of a nonsensical hamster wheel.

In farmville and sim-farm i can Farm.. why HERE I CANT FARM? I WANT TO FARM! LET US FARM! FARM! FARM! FARM!

gurugeorge.9857:

Oxe.6142:

Yes, I’m sure that’s what people in Star Wars said just before everyone left. And the happy majority, as we all know, lives happily ever after in whatever game they are now playing.

But Star Wars was a subscription MMO, so the comparison is inapt. You can’t “leave” GW or GW2 in any way that affects Arenanet’s bottom line, because you’ve already paid them all the money you’re going to pay them for the game as it is atm.

It’s an empty threat.

If you believe that, you really don’t understand the importance of microtransactions in Anet’s business model. Its not just there for “extra” spending money. Its an integral piece of the revenue projections.

Chiming in here. Level 80 for nearly two weeks now, still having fun.

FarFarAway.6579:

gurugeorge.9857:

Oxe.6142:

Yes, I’m sure that’s what people in Star Wars said just before everyone left. And the happy majority, as we all know, lives happily ever after in whatever game they are now playing.

But Star Wars was a subscription MMO, so the comparison is inapt. You can’t “leave” GW or GW2 in any way that affects Arenanet’s bottom line, because you’ve already paid them all the money you’re going to pay them for the game as it is atm.

It’s an empty threat.

If you believe that, you really don’t understand the importance of microtransactions in Anet’s business model. Its not just there for “extra” spending money. Its an integral piece of the revenue projections.

GW did quite well for years without a cash shop, so I doubt that much weight is being put on it at the moment – they could probably survive without it. I’m sure it will be more important in the future, but at the moment there’s hardly anything worth buying in it, and the price of gold in terms of gems is too high.

So, since 2m people (probably more now) have bought the game already and given Arenanet their money, some people leaving now isn’t problematic. People not coming back in the future might be problematic. But that’s the thing – it’s (relatively) costless to come back (compared to a subscription MMO, where you have to ponder the decision “is it worth me subbing for a month to try it again”?)

That’s the point: there’s no need to fret either way. Play the game if and when you enjoy it, don’t play it if and when you don’t enjoy it. There’s no neurosis required on anybody’s part about anyone having to play month after month 24/7, so the game doesn’t need to be designed to cater to that pattern of play.

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

People complain about lack of endgame and then people complain you have to grind too much to get endgame rewards. That seems rather contradictory to me.

I’ve come to the conclusion that some people just like to complain. Instead of listening to them, just continue to play the game and have fun like you are now.

Welcome to any MMO forum that has or will ever exist. People will cry about anything, and grind has turned into “lol everything is just a grind including logging in..”

Asherdeil.3174:

Agreed. Anet, PLEASE don’t listen to the whiners. Most of us are having loads of fun as-is. Keep to the vision that you made.

Yes, stay on target.

FarFarAway.6579:

gurugeorge.9857:

Oxe.6142:

Yes, I’m sure that’s what people in Star Wars said just before everyone left. And the happy majority, as we all know, lives happily ever after in whatever game they are now playing.

But Star Wars was a subscription MMO, so the comparison is inapt. You can’t “leave” GW or GW2 in any way that affects Arenanet’s bottom line, because you’ve already paid them all the money you’re going to pay them for the game as it is atm.

It’s an empty threat.

If you believe that, you really don’t understand the importance of microtransactions in Anet’s business model. Its not just there for “extra” spending money. Its an integral piece of the revenue projections.

If they really wanted to make lots of money they would sell 50 different medium (and light, heavy) armor types instead of only ONE. There is in my opinion nothing worth buying in the gem store except bank space.

No, I think the box price more then enough covers their expenses and profit, especially since they sell their own digital copy instead of having to pay steam 33%.
Server cost is next to nothing these days and tons of single player games give away free content without a cash shop.

Paying a sub or not is really irrelevant. Any MMO needs people or it’s not an MMO. This one especially is designed with LOTS OF PEOPLE in mind. Orr is a nightmare solo. Many events are impossible solo, if they even show up at all (it seems like the frequency of events is determined by the number of people around). If populations drop, this game simply won’t work. Not to mention, a consistent loyal playerbase means income, whether it’s through the TP, a sub, microtransactions, expansions, or some other means.

Oxe.6142:

Paying a sub or not is really irrelevant. Any MMO needs people or it’s not an MMO. This one especially is designed with LOTS OF PEOPLE in mind. Orr is a nightmare solo. Many events are impossible solo, if they even show up at all (it seems like the frequency of events is determined by the number of people around). If populations drop, this game simply won’t work. Not to mention, a consistent loyal playerbase means income, whether it’s through the TP, a sub, microtransactions, expansions, or some other means.

No, it’s totally relevant. A subscription-based game has to have a different ethos to keep people subscribed. A game like GW2 only needs enough people to give the game a sufficient “buzz” so it doesn’t feel dead when you log in. Obviously more people is good, but that doesn’t mean more people of a certain type (those easiliy addicted to hamster wheels so they keep paying monthly).

B2P is a game-changer, not just for players but for the developers. It frees them up quite a bit to make more of the game that they want, rather than what whiners looking to justify paying $15 a month want.

still having a blast. just waiting for the whiners to go away =P

end game needs improvement…big surprise. theyre workin on it, chill.

I calculated complainers are around 0.25% of the players.
Everyone else is still having fun.
Game has issue but definitely delivers well enough fun.

The real issue is that while you can take a player out of WoW, you can’t take WoW out of that player.
Once grinding/rushing addiction is inside you, you won’t enjoy any game until you get rid of it.

-5 days to MoP, so blizzyboyzzz go back to momma and we can talk between adults.