Guild Wars 2

I have done a bit of everything in PVE and I must say I’m very dissapointed. Now I know I bought the game knowing some issues in advance but I gave it a chance anyways. However this has nothing for the PVE enthusiast of a proper MMO and I want to break down my complaints in a structured manor.

1.Dungeons/Instances:
Obviously they do not have any kind of Holy Trinity and I knew that going into the game and it seemed like a nice concept for the one and only reason that I would not have to recruit a Tank/Healer in order to raid. However this leads to part of the dull combat for me of random aggro and running around in circles pointlessly fighting uninspired mobs that have way too much health…this is really boring combat…not to mention mindlessly easy.

MEMORABLE BOSSES, I cant think of even one boss fight that I can remember. The thrill of coming together as a group to defeat a boss and its unique mechanics like other major MMO’s.

THRILL OF LOOT, bosses do not have actual exclusive loot. Instead I get a chest filled with the same random bag of random blues and greens that I vendor mindlessly for the same lousy silver and copper. Where are the epic set pieces and instance exclusive gear that you want to grind for over and over again to progress your character.

2.Story mode, I recently beat all of story mode after getting derailed by a non passable bug that was fixed I ended up on one of the final battles that once again bugged on me…was this tested? I ended up as an engineer having to beat down the boss with a wrench a second time cause apparently ranged dps bugged the fight…sigh. Overall the fights were all painfully long and terribly boring, and thats being polite…I cant help but feel this was a rushed effort.

3.Arah Story, well its been said before on Guru that the last fight w/o any spoilers here is about as uninspired as they come. That whole instance is a endurance challenge of bordom until the finish which is as lacking as the rest of the dungeon.

4.Overall Character progression…its basically non existing in this game. As mentioned before with no instance exclusive gear it all melts down into a TOKEN based farming grind system of gear from vendors. I also have to say that it feels that even if you get this gear it isnt even worth the time to get it. WvW, sure its gonna be better than the trash loot but you can just buy crafted gear which is cheaper and faster to obtain. Also the instances in general that I have played are just painful, and I LOVE INSTANCES. So gearing up to dominate a progressive challenge dungeon is pointless as I have no want to even play PVE after the dungeons I have played.

To sum it up I dont mean to be negative, I really really want to play this game and get that MMO love in my heart that I have with other MMO’s. The PVE plain and simple feels Hollow so hollow to me that I dont even want to PVP anymore because I feel this game is only 1/2 a game. Some will disagree with me totally but they might not know the other content other MMO’s offer in the PVE category and for some this might be their first MMO. All I know for sure is in a level 80 group its basically a bunch of people LoL’ing about how bad the instance is as we face smash through the content and the uninspired battles for the lack luster loot.

Is there any plans to fix this whole concept so bosses are fun and memorable like other MMO titles. I could list amazing boss fights from other games if that would help but for now I’d like to avoid seeming like a fanboy to other games…as all I care about is wanting to play GW2 and enjoy every bit of it.

If you’re playing for loot you’re playing the wrong game.

piitb.7635:

If you’re playing for loot you’re playing the wrong game.

So loot as a means to progress my character is not possible in Guild Wars 2…is that what your agreeing with?

Not to mention I listed pretty much everything under the sun about PVE not only just loot you know. I know the community will try to tear me down in flames cause thats the general vibe around these parts but seriously, a ton of people at end game… you know not the Casual fans agree with this…I should know I run with these people daily.

To touch up on your dungeons,

I don’t think I’ve once, had to run around in cirlces and mindlessly kill anything. I guess, sure that could be a lazy boys method to get ‘some’ things down.

Have you tried actively using your dodging skills while in a dungeon? Have you tried condition removal management for yourself and party members?

Have you made it to ANY boss yet? O_o

What it sounds like you are explaining is, you jumped into a dungeon; had no idea how to play and cried about it here.

The ‘thrill’ of loot, as you knew prior to even buying the game wasn’t there. This is the thrill of being guaranteed an item after X amount of runs.

Don’t like those blues/greens/yellows you get from the chest? That’s fine, go make something better with them in the forge; that will be be a nice RNG for your work effort & “thrill”.

I do agree with some of your points, but I think GW2 Dungeons are some of the best, and most fun dungeons I have ever done. It’s so nice not going to a castle, to the throne room, then kill the king.

I really love the epic story it gives along the way, and the fact that you go through multiple paths, and it’s almost like doing a map completion.

Zombius.1243:

piitb.7635:

If you’re playing for loot you’re playing the wrong game.

So loot as a means to progress my character is not possible in Guild Wars 2…is that that your agreeing with?

How you progress your character is between your chair and your computer, not some arbitrary loot with higher numbers,

This game is designed so the mechanics themselves are fun. Not the rewards or progression. You can Progress in what area you want. Want to get to level 80. Continue making new characters. Progress in a story continue making new characters. Progress in armor. There is crafting and and other armor vendors.

Pick a goal and go for it. Finish the task pick another goal. I like it that this game has goals I can actually complete. But there are also other things that I will never finish as there is no end to them.

anzenketh.3759:

This game is designed so the mechanics themselves are fun. Not the rewards or progression. You can Progress in what area you want. Want to get to level 80. Continue making new characters. Progress in a story continue making new characters. Progress in armor. There is crafting and and other armor vendors.

Pick a goal and go for it. Finish the task pick another goal. I like it that this game has goals I can actually complete. But there are also other things that I will never finish as there is no end to them.

The mechanics are fun to who…how many?

I find them painful and uninspired and I cant think of one memorable boss fight.

Yeah I can roll out of the way of an attack…GG. What then, whats my motivation after that…

Arah dungeon story-mode uninspired? WTH!?
That was better than any other dungeon I’ve seen. Finally a dungeon not in a cave or building. Getting to fight on an airship and take out massive dragons with cannons is FTW.

I’ve had at least 2 memorable dungeon bosses so far, and I haven’t even done a lot of dungeons yet.
The ghost boss in Ascalonian explorable that pulls players and whirlwinds was a pretty fun and exciting boss with a team.
Giganticus Lupicus was another awesome boss, in the Arah explorable. Especially awesome cause it was such a mystery creature in the original game.

Well why do people play FPS, Platformers, Racers so on. Not all games are created equally or to provide the same experience.

I’m pretty sure people are not going to compare the FPS element of Call of Duty with the experience provided by Metroid Prime. I’m sure Need for Speed isn’t going to compared to Mario Kart. Or should we? should we complain that Call of Duty doesn’t have the explorable depth of Prime or that Need for speed lacks hops, bananas and sledding.

GW2 is an environment to let players explore and enjoy the world. If enjoying a more active world where exploration and the DE’s changing parts of the world is for you. Then yeah your playing the wrong game. GW2 is not WoW, not meant to replace WoW and not meant attract the WoW players. It’s meant to provide a different experience as a supplement to WoW or to new audience that wants a change from subscription grind fests.

Finally GW2 let’s you challenge yourself as a game. Do things by your self. Do some of the skill challenges or DE by yourself. Win them.

ahh, the never changing comments. I don’t want the same game of X with a new skin…… this game doesn’t have features from game X.

I feel like your post was honest and your expectations may not have been met.

I also think your thoughts on dungeons has some truth to it. I have had much experience with them yet, but I feel they are missing something.

The rest of your post I can’t really agree with. What others are trying to tell you is your approach or mindset of what you get from the game need to be different. That is when things will open up for you and not expect old mmo mentality of what you get. I good point is when you said you “beat” story mode. Story mode isn’t to be “beat”, it is there for the story of your character, the world, and to enjoy. Sure there are a few challenges along the way but to look it as “I beat the game” type of thinking isn’t going to help you any. You should be thinking of the different choices you took along the way and how that could have played out differently in the story.

Just my thoughts, it seems as though you gave the game a try and ready to move on. I hope you at least enjoyed some of it.

piitb.7635:

Zombius.1243:

piitb.7635:

If you’re playing for loot you’re playing the wrong game.

So loot as a means to progress my character is not possible in Guild Wars 2…is that that your agreeing with?

How you progress your character is between your chair and your computer, not some arbitrary loot with higher numbers,

I disagree. In the context of progression being that under which I am progressing through the content of the game if I’m not replacing my loot about every ten levels I have a hard time soloing. It may be that my chosen class (mesmer) is more gear dependent than others, or it could simply be that better/more of my primary stats make me more effective.

To that end, I don’t run dungeons for the gear but for the experience, but likewise it would be ‘flavorful’ for certain bosses to drop certain items.

Dungeons in GW2 feel like actual dungeons – I think what people are missing is the ad hoc ‘run and gun fest’ that say WOTLK heroics presented. My experience so far has been that dungeons in general take a bit longer that what I was expecting, and are somewhat over tuned in the context of a undeveloped character.

The end result is that dungeons are merely part of the journey, not a lifestyle.

Meh. 95% of end bosses in video games period are dumb. MMOs are no different. That’s because all the “creative boss love” goes to the dungeon bosses, as it should. In MMOs, you just make sure dungeon bosses are good. Questing bosses will always stink. Even the last one.

As for story, MMOs aren’t really known for those, either. Not even SWTOR’s stories could compare to Bioware’s single player RPGs.

Venator.5780:

piitb.7635:

Zombius.1243:

piitb.7635:

If you’re playing for loot you’re playing the wrong game.

So loot as a means to progress my character is not possible in Guild Wars 2…is that that your agreeing with?

How you progress your character is between your chair and your computer, not some arbitrary loot with higher numbers,

I disagree. In the context of progression being that under which I am progressing through the content of the game if I’m not replacing my loot about every ten levels I have a hard time soloing. It may be that my chosen class (mesmer) is more gear dependent than others, or it could simply be that better/more of my primary stats make me more effective.

To that end, I don’t run dungeons for the gear but for the experience, but likewise it would be ‘flavorful’ for certain bosses to drop certain items.

You will be replacing your gear constantly even after hitting level 80.

There are also legendaries to “farm” up.

But all gear of a specific level is static. The only way for a balanced game is to have static gear.

While I won’t flame you Zombius I will simply say…

You can to a game that made it very clear it would not be a WoW clone, expecting a WoW clone.

Keep in mind the MMO definition only defines setting and playerbase (persistent & more than 1). Other then that it is whatever can imagine to challenge said playerbase, and ANet has certainly done that as I haven’t been challenged by a dungeon in years like I was on my first GW2 dungeon.

Combat and progression are all opinion as I happen to like ANets solution to both, but it sounds like you are looking for something that maintains the turret style rotation combat with gear progression (while GW2 does have advancing gear as you level but at max it is all about looks).

jayderyu.3751:

Well why do people play FPS, Platformers, Racers so on. Not all games are created equally or to provide the same experience.

I’m pretty sure people are not going to compare the FPS element of Call of Duty with the experience provided by Metroid Prime. I’m sure Need for Speed isn’t going to compared to Mario Kart. Or should we? should we complain that Call of Duty doesn’t have the explorable depth of Prime or that Need for speed lacks hops, bananas and sledding.

GW2 is an environment to let players explore and enjoy the world. If enjoying a more active world where exploration and the DE’s changing parts of the world is for you. Then yeah your playing the wrong game. GW2 is not WoW, not meant to replace WoW and not meant attract the WoW players. It’s meant to provide a different experience as a supplement to WoW or to new audience that wants a change from subscription grind fests.

Finally GW2 let’s you challenge yourself as a game. Do things by your self. Do some of the skill challenges or DE by yourself. Win them.

ahh, the never changing comments. I don’t want the same game of X with a new skin…… this game doesn’t have features from game X.

Its hard to Compare Call of Duty to Mario Kart sure but not so much to compare Guild Wars 2 to Wow. (here come the go back to WoW comments)

Your talking about an MMO so that you can do things by yourself…that speaks volumes.

Dungeons do seem lacklustre. I only did Twilight Arbour in story mode and we didn’t even complete it, but it was very dull.

However, I’m actually glad that gear grind in dungeons is not the main focus of the game. It would be a horribly boring game if that were so.

A lot more emphasis has been put on exploring, which is a lot more fun.

Well… haven’t found a single memorable boss from my trinity-based WoW days. More like memorized… follow a script, don’t deviate or you wipe. Come back Thursday and we’ll do it again. Gods I don’t miss that. Maybe other trinity-based games were different… anyone recall any memorable trinity-based game bosses that weren’t scripted fights? My knowledge base in that area is limited.

I have only done a few dungeons and AC explorable once (with the ghost eater), so my opinion may not be a typical experience.

This game is..different. I too am used to the system where you run x dungeon and when the boss dies you know that he’s likely going to drop something for someone (assuming they need an upgrade). However this game is about looking cool and not getting really powerful, so on that note it would be nice if there were unique dungeon skins in each dungeon, one light, one medium, and one heavy, and each boss had a chance to drop up to one (or two, doesnt matter as long as there is a decent chance of at least one dropping) piece of armor with that unique armor skin, and make it bind on pickup/account.

As far as encounters go…there are a few encounters that I really enjoyed and others that I felt really needed work. For example, in the Svanir dungeon (the ice/snowy dungeon..Honors something), I really enjoyed the boss in story mode that would drop shards of ice down from the ceiling that you had to evade or else be subject to his ice breath. I was constantly dodging and moving and my group worked as a team to keep him slowed so we could avoid his breath. Also, the fight with the dude in AC explorable that would pull you in and whirlwind you to death. It took a few times getting slashed up until I realized when to dodge his pull attack.

On the flip side, some bosses really do feel like I’m playing D3 Inferno Act 2 pre patch. Just insane amounts of damage and health in an effort to make it a challenge. The last boss in the aforementioned story mode of the Svanir place..he would sick his hawks on you and there was no way to avoid it (that we found out) and it was almost a guaranteed death because they did a ridiculous amount of damage. If graveyard zerging were not possible, I don’t think we would have gotten him down.

I’m sure there are still some improvements to be made in dungeons, maybe some of these things that are causing headaches are not quite working as intended. One major fix that I think needs to be addressed is it needs to be more apparent when bosses (and players) are telegraphing their attacks in some situations. Sometimes with everything happening on the screen it’s pretty hard to see my character or the boss and I can’t tell what he’s doing at all, so I cannot avoid anything. Those red circles need to be thicker and brighter!

Other than that, the story is better than any MMO I have played and I’m really happy with how that went. There just needs to be much more emphasis on boss tactics and less on graveyard zerging, because that’s not fun.

EntropicTempest.2759:

On the flip side, some bosses really do feel like I’m playing D3 Inferno Act 2 pre patch. Just insane amounts of damage and health in an effort to make it a challenge. The last boss in the aforementioned story mode of the Svanir place..he would sick his hawks on you and there was no way to avoid it (that we found out) and it was almost a guaranteed death because they did a ridiculous amount of damage. If graveyard zerging were not possible, I don’t think we would have gotten him down.

I actually wondered the other night if graveyard zerging was actually intended. Not as the optimal way of defeating a boss, but as a means to not leave you stuck in a dungeon if you just couldn’t figure out the mechanic. Sort of a concession to keep you progressing thru the dungeon (albeit a slow and somewhat annoying way).

I’ve completed a few of the instances and I have to say they are painfully boring and lackluster and so are the rewards/loot.

This is coming from someone that pretty much loves all other parts of the game.

We have in this thread established the opinion on instances is not the same for everybody.

Loot is not progressive or dynamically character changing.

I really wanna know someones detailed response to this.

Which boss fight is memorable and dynamic and why, in a structured way tell me please maybe I missed it. If im not to be rewarded by loot at least give me a fun boss fight to enjoy. Something that requires people in my group to try hard and know what the game is about rather than res rinse repeat. I could tell you a cool story bro about every boss in ICC about how intense and challenging those “scripted” fights were. They would make you mad, they would make you want to rage quit, but when you got even the most lack luster players to pull together and achieve victory man it was sweet…and the memories are priceless.

Dodge rolling is about as complicated as coming inside out of the rain. Pulling together to win is something entirely different.

Me and my brother playing when the game was in early relese we was escorting the Beetletun beer across the swamp it was fun as we got near the end with the bunch of people we noticed a shadow behemoth once the escort mission was done the whole escort group charged at the behemoth and attacked it while dodgeing its AOE attacks and once it was dead everbody cheered and was loveing it. I think that will be rembered the any boss WoW or any other MMO thows at me because other people was working togather it was a Foe that no man could fight alone and it was epic

Zombius.1243:

We have in this thread established the opinion on instances is not the same for everybody.

Loot is not progressive or dynamically character changing.

I really wanna know someones detailed response to this.

Which boss fight is memorable and dynamic and why, in a structured way tell me please maybe I missed it. If im not to be rewarded by loot at least give me a fun boss fight to enjoy. Something that requires people in my group to try hard and know what the game is about rather than res rinse repeat. I could tell you a cool story bro about every boss in ICC about how intense and challenging those “scripted” fights were. They would make you mad, they would make you want to rage quit, but when you got even the most lack luster players to pull together and achieve victory man it was sweet…and the memories are priceless.

Dodge rolling is about as complicated as coming inside out of the rain. Pulling together to win is something entirely different.

I got loot after every boss in AC (there is a chest you have to loot and sometimes the corpse).

Memorable is subjective. What I enjoy you may not. Also memory is generally tied to the senses (smell being the most powerful) so a boss fight being ‘memorable’ is hard to define as the typical things your memory uses aren’t present.

Now if you meant challenging and rewarding, then I would say the Lovers in AC were ‘memorable’. Not only was this a challenging fight but I remember feeling elated when we got just the first one down, to say nothing of having a whole other boss to fight. It also made every other boss in the dungeon feel simple by comparison.

I would also ask what dungeon did you actually do, how successful where you, and who did you do it with? The reason is that the things you loved about ICC (pulling together to finally win) where all present in my dungeon runs. Especially since you can’t just zerg dps the bosses down.

Macro rotation spamming while moving slightly to avoid the bad is not more difficult then a dodge mechanic.

EntropicTempest.2759:

However this game is about looking cool and not getting really powerful, so on that note it would be nice if there were unique dungeon skins in each dungeon, one light, one medium, and one heavy, and each boss had a chance to drop up to one (or two, doesnt matter as long as there is a decent chance of at least one dropping) piece of armor with that unique armor skin, and make it bind on pickup/account.

That’s a nice idea, for people who like doing dungeons.

piitb.7635:

If you’re playing for loot you’re playing the wrong game.

What is the point of an action RPG with no exciting loot?

Ordika.9513:

Zombius.1243:

We have in this thread established the opinion on instances is not the same for everybody.

Loot is not progressive or dynamically character changing.

I really wanna know someones detailed response to this.

Which boss fight is memorable and dynamic and why, in a structured way tell me please maybe I missed it. If im not to be rewarded by loot at least give me a fun boss fight to enjoy. Something that requires people in my group to try hard and know what the game is about rather than res rinse repeat. I could tell you a cool story bro about every boss in ICC about how intense and challenging those “scripted” fights were. They would make you mad, they would make you want to rage quit, but when you got even the most lack luster players to pull together and achieve victory man it was sweet…and the memories are priceless.

Dodge rolling is about as complicated as coming inside out of the rain. Pulling together to win is something entirely different.

I got loot after every boss in AC (there is a chest you have to loot and sometimes the corpse).

Memorable is subjective. What I enjoy you may not. Also memory is generally tied to the senses (smell being the most powerful) so a boss fight being ‘memorable’ is hard to define as the typical things your memory uses aren’t present.

Now if you meant challenging and rewarding, then I would say the Lovers in AC were ‘memorable’. Not only was this a challenging fight but I remember feeling elated when we got just the first one down, to say nothing of having a whole other boss to fight. It also made every other boss in the dungeon feel simple by comparison.

Macro rotation spamming while moving slightly to avoid the bad is not more difficult then a dodge mechanic.

Its funny you mention the “Lovers” because its an easy one to remember due to the fact there is two of them. I agree tho this fight came close to what I’m talking about this fight had a bit of team mechanics to it.

For the record I have done story AC, Calmous Manor, Twilight Arbor, Arah.
Explore Mode, Twlight Arbor, CoF, and Arah.
and 100% Story Mode Instanced Zones

One thing I would like to point out is this dodge mechanic…trust me I know its easy and it is, its not the holy pinnacle of awesome game mechanics by far. I frankly find the game easy, dispite the rediculous health bars and spiky random damage bits.

It all still feel a bit like lets roll around auto attacking in short.

To misquote the crazy guy who ran for mayor of New York, “The fights are tookittenlong!”

Granted, I’ve only managed to find groups for AC/TA/MC so far. My main is 80, but dungeon entrance has been bugged and/or just couldn’t put together a group for the rest so far, so this is limited experience, but I think the main reason that the dungeons feel unrewarding is because the mobs just last tookittenlong for the rewards you get.

“Out in the world” five people on a mob DESTROY it unless it’s a champ. In the dungeons, 80% feel like champs and you still get total crap drops from them.

Then the boss fights. A bazillion hitpoints, people scrambling around, dodging out of the way of totally random and/or AoE attacks. Nobody actually able to help anyone else until they’re “down” because… well, who has a direct heal for anyone else? I can use my longkitten cooldown regen and drop it, but since I’m ranged, half the group won’t be in range, unless I stop dps and dodge in to drop it, then dodge back out, but then I don’t get any benefit and I can stop combat for 20 seconds or so to “complete heal” a friend out of death, but it’s channeled, so if he dropped in the wrong place…

etc, etc, etc.

Later, after people truly know their classes and can synergize, I’m sure I’ll feel differently. But right now… “The fights are just tookittenlong.”

Derpinator.2894:

To misquote the crazy guy who ran for mayor of New York, “The fights are tookittenlong!”

Granted, I’ve only managed to find groups for AC/TA/MC so far. My main is 80, but dungeon entrance has been bugged and/or just couldn’t put together a group for the rest so far, so this is limited experience, but I think the main reason that the dungeons feel unrewarding is because the mobs just last tookittenlong for the rewards you get.

“Out in the world” five people on a mob DESTROY it unless it’s a champ. In the dungeons, 80% feel like champs and you still get total crap drops from them.

Then the boss fights. A bazillion hitpoints, people scrambling around, dodging out of the way of totally random and/or AoE attacks. Nobody actually able to help anyone else until they’re “down” because… well, who has a direct heal for anyone else? I can use my longkitten cooldown regen and drop it, but since I’m ranged, half the group won’t be in range, unless I stop dps and dodge in to drop it, then dodge back out, but then I don’t get any benefit and I can stop combat for 20 seconds or so to “complete heal” a friend out of death, but it’s channeled, so if he dropped in the wrong place…

etc, etc, etc.

Later, after people truly know their classes and can synergize, I’m sure I’ll feel differently. But right now… “The fights are just tookittenlong.”

Yeah about the long fights I totally agree, they really seem to want to drive the point home about how much health mobs and bosses can have until the point has well been made. Plus the unrewarding loot makes for no suspense.

Well, you really dont need “uber lewts” to do well in this game. You can get by with average gear, quite well, so I am not sure why it would be in the game really…I mean it would severely devalue any challenge that the game might pose for you. But not all games will appeal to all players. I played wow for years…finally got tired of it when they made it too easy and too generic……this game appeals to me on some levels because it is “different” and even “odd” in a lot of ways, lol. But I do respect your right to dislike the game if you need more “instant gratification”. Btw, stay away from Diablo 3 if that is your thing, heh.

Derpinator.2894:

unless I stop dps and dodge in to drop it, then dodge back out

I would have to say this is what ANet intents. They don’t want you to just stand there and DPS through your rotation, cause then it just another clone that gets lost in the noise.

I’m not sure why people are flaming the guy, he is entitled to his opinion – saying; “no, you’re wrong and here is why……” is ridiculous. The only thing worse then a Troll is some raging fanboy. His post was well written, constructive and not inflammatory in any way.

I agree with a lot of his points, I’ve played over 20 MMOs (my first MMO was EQ1 back in 1999) and character progression in GW2 feels very flat. I’m a level 61 Ranger using a Longbow and I’ve had the same skills since I’ve equipped the weapon. In other MMOs you start off with a tattered tunic and a rusty sword but grow to become a gleaming engine of destruction, I don’t feel this in GW2, yes, you can get different skins, but its not the same.

None of the dungeons have been memorable imo. The game is beautiful and oozes atmosphere but I’m sleepwalking thru most of the game. I’m sorry but I truly miss the holy trinity of tank/heal/DPS. I do. This one size fits all approach feels too open ended and undefined. Yes, DEs are fun, but after 2-3 runs they get stale.

You guys need to allow people to share their opinions, its only thru constructive criticism, trolling shouldn’t be tolerated, but its okay if people don’t think the game is perfect, chillax, nobody shot your dog or ran over your grandmother. If I’m a developer I would rather people come and share with me the things they don’t like, rather then quietly quit and go away.

I could care less about the physical rewards. I can upgrade armor and weapons by questing & crafting. The pleasure in the game come from figuring out “how” to accomplish the goal “without” the Trinity and “with” whatever class a Guildie has the most fun playing.

That and exploring every nook and cranny of a brand new world.

Raf

Zombius.1243:

One thing I would like to point out is this dodge mechanic…trust me I know its easy and it is, its not the holy pinnacle of awesome game mechanics by far.

Out of curiosity what do you consider the holy pinnacle?

Personally I got sick of turret macro rotation spamming. I hated the my WoW/WoW Clone characters just stood there and pew-pewed and only moved occasionally to get out of bad or reposition. It was boring and required no ‘skill’ (as I define gaming skill).

Here I have to pay attention to not only what is about to appear under my feet/over my head but what the boss is actually doing (not what his cast bar says) and I have the ability to actively dodge so if I instead want to use a parry ability I can do that. Sure its no innovative (it’s what I did for 4 God of War games) but is the type of combat I personally enjoy. I don’t need 100’s of ability’s just a handful of solid ones and a couple awesome ones and the ability to control my characters actions fully.

As for rewards, I have gotten plenty of money, ingredients, and a number of blues greens and even a couple yellows, granted they were random and only 1 I could use (was a green). Some dungeons in WoW I never walked out with anything other then junk and money because there were no drops (RNG sucks), so really to me there is no difference other then the challenge which just isn’t there in WoW anymore and hasn’t been for a while (not that you are drawing a specific WoW comparison just using a frame of reference).

Gopher.4562:

This is the thrill of being guaranteed an item after X amount of runs.

That’s not fun, by the way. That’s called a chore.

A boss with exclusive loot that drops only from him gives the loot context and surprise when/if it drops. Why not have “Tooth of Zhaitan” as a dagger, for example?

The gear you are talking about is to be ‘grinded’ for in Dungeons on Explore mode or crated at the Mystic Forge. There is no set ‘endgame’ GW2 is about how you get there not what is actually there. Guild Wars 2 emphasizes the journey and the end game is a secondary concern.

The Anarchist.8234:

The gear you are talking about is to be ‘grinded’ for in Dungeons on Explore mode or crated at the Mystic Forge. There is no set ‘endgame’ GW2 is about how you get there not what is actually there. Guild Wars 2 emphasizes the journey and the end game is a secondary concern.

I agree that’s the intent, but it’s not being communicated nor playing out that way in game it would seem.

Players see 80 levels in front of them as a goal… wether they rush or not is irrelevant… it’s human nature to see that goal and work toward it.

GW2 overall suffers for not having meaningful end-game content and progression. I feel it could be done in a “GW2 way” but, I feel it definitely has to be done.

Sorry the game didn’t work out for you, I personally really like it a lot. But, since you don’t like it why waste your time on these forums? Move on and find a game you do like.

AstroCat.7628:

Sorry the game didn’t work out for you, I personally really like it a lot. But, since you don’t like it why waste your time on these forums? Move on and find a game you do like.

You guys need to allow people to share their opinions, its only thru constructive criticism that things may see improvements, trolling shouldn’t be tolerated, but its okay if people don’t think the game is perfect, chillax, nobody shot your dog or ran over your grandmother. If I’m a developer I would rather people come and share with me the things they don’t like, rather then quietly quit and go away.

AstroCat.7628:

Sorry the game didn’t work out for you, I personally really like it a lot. But, since you don’t like it why waste your time on these forums? Move on and find a game you do like.

“If you don’t like it, leave!”

Sure, you were kinder than that. Maybe even being honestly helpful in suggesting that they end their pain and move on, but let me answer your question directly.

People who are dissatisfied complain because they really like some, a lot, or even most of a game and don’t WANT to leave the parts they DO like. They want to interact, suggest, whine etc. in hopes that someone will hear what they don’t like and either offer alternatives within existing mechanics, or be heard by someone in power who will change the less-than-satisfactory part(s).

I personally LOVE most of this game. But the parts that aren’t good aren’t going to change if people just jump ship and run away.

Ordika.9513:

Derpinator.2894:

unless I stop dps and dodge in to drop it, then dodge back out

I would have to say this is what ANet intents. They don’t want you to just stand there and DPS through your rotation, cause then it just another clone that gets lost in the noise.

Yeah, I get it. And even appreciate it a lot. My point isn’t that this part is necessarily “broken” as designed, it’s that there’s so little information available within the game, that it feels tedious and repetetive because even though “run in, drop your regen, run out” isn’t “just stand there and do your rotation” it’s still a part of the rotation, it just adds more keystrokes.

Now, if there were clearer in-game signals as to synergies amongst characters, places to go practice your strategies where failure doesn’t cost a sizeable percentage of your gold stash etc. I wouldn’t be complaining as much. And later, once these strategies have been (l)earned the hard way by the player base, I’m sure these fights will feel more engaging… for a while. Until they become just a dance of rotations, just like every other MMO.

The problem here is that everything appears random and chaotic right now. But it isn’t. At all. It’s all a simple script with a thin veil of chaos on top.

So is combat more active in this game than a simple rotation?

Yes. But only because the rotations have some random thrown in on top of mobs with ridiculous hitpoints and damage. The sensation of “active” is an illusion, at least in the fights that I’ve seen.

So, if at present (or in the future) winning is essentially a foregone conclusion based solely on time spent, at least make the rewards for the time spent feel better.

Now, if I’m wrong, and there is something dynamic about the world, events, fights that I haven’t experienced yet, I can’t wait for it. Because I’m sick to death of rotation fights, gathering x of y quests, killing x of y mobs etc. when they have no impact on the game world. In WoW and others, I could handle it because at LEAST my character got stronger and I felt diffferent, more powerful in the world. I may not have changed the ecosystem permanently, but I couldkittensure do it temporarily.

Here… I just don’t feel connected at all to the world. Which is fine as long as I can be master of my portion of it, wherever I happen to be. But I don’t feel that either.

I guess that’s my biggest beef. I don’t feel like I’m any part of the game world. I just happen to be ON it.

Hmmm. Maybe I should have a nap.

Derpinator.2894:

Yeah, I get it. And even appreciate it a lot. My point isn’t that this part is necessarily “broken” as designed, it’s that there’s so little information available within the game, that it feels tedious and repetetive because even though “run in, drop your regen, run out” isn’t “just stand there and do your rotation” it’s still a part of the rotation, it just adds more keystrokes.

Now, if there were clearer in-game signals as to synergies amongst characters, places to go practice your strategies where failure doesn’t cost a sizeable percentage of your gold stash etc. I wouldn’t be complaining as much. And later, once these strategies have been (l)earned the hard way by the player base, I’m sure these fights will feel more engaging… for a while. Until they become just a dance of rotations, just like every other MMO.

The problem here is that everything appears random and chaotic right now. But it isn’t. At all. It’s all a simple script with a thin veil of chaos on top.

So is combat more active in this game than a simple rotation?

Yes. But only because the rotations have some random thrown in on top of mobs with ridiculous hitpoints and damage. The sensation of “active” is an illusion, at least in the fights that I’ve seen.

So, if at present (or in the future) winning is essentially a foregone conclusion based solely on time spent, at least make the rewards for the time spent feel better.

Now, if I’m wrong, and there is something dynamic about the world, events, fights that I haven’t experienced yet, I can’t wait for it. Because I’m sick to death of rotation fights, gathering x of y quests, killing x of y mobs etc. when they have no impact on the game world. In WoW and others, I could handle it because at LEAST my character got stronger and I felt diffferent, more powerful in the world. I may not have changed the ecosystem permanently, but I couldkittensure do it temporarily.

Here… I just don’t feel connected at all to the world. Which is fine as long as I can be master of my portion of it, wherever I happen to be. But I don’t feel that either.

I guess that’s my biggest beef. I don’t feel like I’m any part of the game world. I just happen to be ON it.

Hmmm. Maybe I should have a nap.

LOL sleep is good

I think the problem is exactly like Zombius said, its not the holy pinnacle, but I purposely asked him what is because in honesty there is no holy pinnacle.

Take any great single player game of the past 10 years and it just a fancy rehash of something else:

Bioshock – standard FPS
Batman: AA or AC – better graphics double dragon
Assassins Creeds – MGS in the ancient middle east or Italy or now colonial America

I grew up through the gaming explosion, I can remember the first big home consoles, and I can remember spending 5 bucks in quarters in the local arcade whenever my mom went bowling. At the time there was innovation everywhere as more powerful systems lead to more possibilities. But those times are gone and all that is left is just trying to put your own spin on something that has come before. This doesn’t make these game inferior to the games they stole from, just different enough to feel new. There was an article where the guy who invented the concept of !/? quests says that all he did was streamline what was there in EQ, and people used to say WoW is a boring EQ rip off cause they would run out into the field and just start killing stuff and he would say ‘have you tried the quests’. The point being that we are in the stage of returning to the familiar because it is to us the path of least resistance. Then we find all this resistance because the game was designed differently. So what ANet needs to do with us is ask us ‘have you tried the quests’.

You are actually better off playing WoW if you want progression raiding and the gear thrill. Anet is very deliberate about stabilizing the item market, and unless you really like skins, you aren’t going to get a gear-thrill.

But yeah, dungeons don’t have nearly enough gimmicks to resemble the progression raiding experience. That’s it though. The first iteration of a lot of games had really uninspiring boss fights though, and to expect a game with a largely different take on combat and roles to have magically engaging fights is a starry-eyed expectation.

In regards to critique, however, all I got was complaints about how fights aren’t fun enough, but no meaningful mental-sketches on how to make a fun one.

To be honest I am glad there isn’t spectacular loot and I’m glad this isn’t going to be a carrot on a stick where end game content ultimately winds up being a few dungeons that you run over and over just to get a few pieces of gear a few points better than what you had before. I don’t subscribe to better gear being “content”, and lets be critical when we talk about memorable boss fights, when was the last good one you had? I have to go back to Karazhan myself. Everything else has been lackluster, even Arthas.

ituhata.6830:

To be honest I am glad there isn’t spectacular loot and I’m glad this isn’t going to be a carrot on a stick where end game content ultimately winds up being a few dungeons that you run over and over just to get a few pieces of gear a few points better than what you had before. I don’t subscribe to better gear being “content”, and lets be critical when we talk about memorable boss fights, when was the last good one you had? I have to go back to Karazhan myself. Everything else has been lackluster, even Arthas.

mine would be c’thun. Content in wow was fun the first time I did it. Doing the same thing every week, exact same mechanics, rotation etc.. it’s very boring; ok the tank split mechanic is this, dps has to avoid x while killing y and the healers heal. The end. Every time. For a piece of gear that makes a marginal difference.

It’s relaxing to be able to play a game and have the actions be the fun part and not the loot. Playing games for the fun of it should be it’s own reward, not phat loots.