Guild Wars 2

Unlike most mmorpgs today including allot of newer ones I have tried, I was skeptical when I first got this game, ive been burned to many times so if anyone is wondering if gw2 is pay to win it really isnt. Not to mention this mmorpg does have allot of great features even if it doesnt have everything I prefer in mmorpgs its the best one to me so far, ive yet to try eso but since both are buy to play id probably play both lol.

Anyways my point is anet could of easily went this route if they wanted and they didnt which shows me they do care about the game, thank you anet, I think I will probably get the thrones expansion after all.

As far as I’m concerned, it’s buy to play with unlimited free trial

All the best pvp builds require HoT that makes it kinda p2w tbh.

Stiofan.6720:

All the best pvp builds require HoT that makes it kinda p2w tbh.

Not quite. I’m not really into PvP, but from what I’ve heard some people made it into legendary divisions with a free account, which means no elite specializations.
Yes, in general elite specs are stronger than the base class. Anet never denied it, they always meant elite specs to be superior to regular ones (guess why they’re called elite). From what I’ve understood, future elite specs should be on par with the current ones, so there’ll be no more power creep once you’ve got at least the first GW2 expansion and one elite spec unlocked. If anything, you can call it buy to win, because after you get HoT, none of the future elite specs should overshadow your current one. Definitely not pay to win.

Also, we don’t even know whether OP was talking about PvP, it’s kind of bold to just assume that. While the power creep is present in PvE just as much as in PvP, it’s not nearly as apparent and there are still ways how to play efficiently with your base class (even metabattle still lists non-HoT builds for PvE).

Stiofan.6720:

All the best pvp builds require HoT that makes it kinda p2w tbh.

Well, that’s like saying that WoW is P2W, because it requires monthly payment. The game’s B2P; always was, and always will be. If someone doesn’t have HoT, they’re basically playing on endless trial mode.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Stiofan.6720:

All the best pvp builds require HoT that makes it kinda p2w tbh.

Not quite. I’m not really into PvP, but from what I’ve heard some people made it into legendary divisions with a free account, which means no elite specializations.
Yes, in general elite specs are stronger than the base class. Anet never denied it, they always meant elite specs to be superior to regular ones (guess why they’re called elite). From what I’ve understood, future elite specs should be on par with the current ones, so there’ll be no more power creep once you’ve got at least the first GW2 expansion and one elite spec unlocked. If anything, you can call it buy to win, because after you get HoT, none of the future elite specs should overshadow your current one. Definitely not pay to win.

Also, we don’t even know whether OP was talking about PvP, it’s kind of bold to just assume that. While the power creep is present in PvE just as much as in PvP, it’s not nearly as apparent and there are still ways how to play efficiently with your base class (even metabattle still lists non-HoT builds for PvE).

Do you know if they plan on releasing new elite specs? That would be really cool, I thought I read somewhere long ago they might.

We can expect new elite spec with next expansion

Ryou.2398:

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Stiofan.6720:

All the best pvp builds require HoT that makes it kinda p2w tbh.

Not quite. I’m not really into PvP, but from what I’ve heard some people made it into legendary divisions with a free account, which means no elite specializations.
Yes, in general elite specs are stronger than the base class. Anet never denied it, they always meant elite specs to be superior to regular ones (guess why they’re called elite). From what I’ve understood, future elite specs should be on par with the current ones, so there’ll be no more power creep once you’ve got at least the first GW2 expansion and one elite spec unlocked. If anything, you can call it buy to win, because after you get HoT, none of the future elite specs should overshadow your current one. Definitely not pay to win.

Also, we don’t even know whether OP was talking about PvP, it’s kind of bold to just assume that. While the power creep is present in PvE just as much as in PvP, it’s not nearly as apparent and there are still ways how to play efficiently with your base class (even metabattle still lists non-HoT builds for PvE).

Do you know if they plan on releasing new elite specs? That would be really cool, I thought I read somewhere long ago they might.

Apparently the reason they changed how traitlines are learned and equipped (and especially the reason they removed stats from them) was specifically so they could continue to add new ones later on.

My guess is we’ll see the next set with the next expansion which they’re rumoured to be already working on.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Stiofan.6720:

All the best pvp builds require HoT that makes it kinda p2w tbh.

Not quite. I’m not really into PvP, but from what I’ve heard some people made it into legendary divisions with a free account, which means no elite specializations.
Yes, in general elite specs are stronger than the base class. Anet never denied it, they always meant elite specs to be superior to regular ones (guess why they’re called elite). From what I’ve understood, future elite specs should be on par with the current ones, so there’ll be no more power creep once you’ve got at least the first GW2 expansion and one elite spec unlocked. If anything, you can call it buy to win, because after you get HoT, none of the future elite specs should overshadow your current one. Definitely not pay to win.

Also, we don’t even know whether OP was talking about PvP, it’s kind of bold to just assume that. While the power creep is present in PvE just as much as in PvP, it’s not nearly as apparent and there are still ways how to play efficiently with your base class (even metabattle still lists non-HoT builds for PvE).

Although I agree with most of what you say, I have to say that ANet billed Elite Specs as on equal-grounding as core classes, simply adding a different playstyle rather than being stronger. That was one of the reasons why there was a bit of a backlash from the community until they announced the quarterly balance patches, which reassured the community they’d be balanced out. It didn’t really pan out even then though. The elite prefix was never about superiority, although in the end it did translate into it. It was about branching gameplay styles.

I only play PvE. “Win” is meaningless in PvE.

DoctorDing.5890:

I only play PvE. “Win” is meaningless in PvE.

lol So true.

Honestly, I have a hard time taking it seriously when anyone uses the word “win” with a video game. Especially one like GW2 where “winning” seems to be more about having the most outfits than any real competition. I think of “win” as having more to do with the Olympics or something like that.

Well its at least the cheapest P2W game ever as you only need to buy the game as the GEM store dont sell any P2W items and you can buy all gem stuff for gold

A p2w game is designed around the developers creating gameplay related problems while putting the solution exclusivly in a cashshop. GW2 was designed as a b2p game with additional QoL put in a cashshop you could use with ingame money as well as cash. Any boons you can get are temporary and minimal. Any skins and such exist in addition to tons of ingame content.

If you want to see how p2w can be done in a b2p game, look at BDO. They have specifically designed aspects of the game to heavily encourage the use of cashshop items (with no option for ingame currency, loyalty is not the same) such as loot being on a short timer and competetive pick up (oh hey, lets make a pet that picks it up in the cashshop!) or there being an incredibly limited outfit variation (oh hey, lets sell costumes for $30!) or ganking being the best way to kill someone (oh hey, lets sell a suit that hide your name! And then sell the pet that expose hidden players!). Of course, the reason for that is because its still designed as a f2p game at its core.

And then you have games like Perfect World, where, in order to be competitive in end-game content, you need to buy buffs and temporary weapons from the Cash Shop.

It’s the one thing most people arguing against GW2 being p2w bring up (myself included). Even with the relatively minor hassle of elite specialisations being locked behind 1 expansion update (which is unfortunate, agreed), the game is far from pay2win.

Everyone arguing the opposite is doing it out of:

1.) interest in getting a reaction from other players or using exageration to get a point accross

2.) have never actually played any pay2win games, especially MMO based ones

3.) both of the above

As of right now the three editions of GW2 could be ranked as follows:

F2P – very extensive trial. For people who enjoy the story aspects and lore it’s even enough to never buy the game. Just run through the story free of charge.

GW2vanilla – pure vanilla game with all the free content which was added over 3 years of the life cycle. Available multiple times for as low as 10$ which basically payed for itsself after 1-2 months of only login bonuses (compared to buying gems with those 10$)

GW2HoT – the new B2P base. Any new players will get this as the core game. Still does not require any real $ purchses besides the game to fully enjoy GW2.

Cyninja.2954:

It’s the one thing most people arguing against GW2 being p2w bring up (myself included). Even with the relatively minor hassle of elite specialisations being locked behind 1 expansion update (which is unfortunate, agreed), the game is far from pay2win.

Everyone arguing the opposite is doing it out of:

1.) interest in getting a reaction from other players or using exageration to get a point accross

2.) have never actually played any pay2win games, especially MMO based ones

3.) both of the above

As of right now the three editions of GW2 could be ranked as follows:

F2P – very extensive trial. For people who enjoy the story aspects and lore it’s even enough to never buy the game. Just run through the story free of charge.

GW2vanilla – pure vanilla game with all the free content which was added over 3 years of the life cycle. Available multiple times for as low as 10$ which basically payed for itsself after 1-2 months of only login bonuses (compared to buying gems with those 10$)

GW2HoT – the new B2P base. Any new players will get this as the core game. Still does not require any real $ purchses besides the game to fully enjoy GW2.

But one of the intended points of the P4F/F2P version, along with the e-sports, was to grow the exposure of the Game to cheap PvP players, who are having to struggle against the elite professions, making seem to them P2W.

Yes the intention is to convert these players into B2P but … because the enjoy the game and not because they feel they need to simply to get to the higher PvP ranks. So I can see where some of this P2W notion comes from. P2W certainly isn’t in PvE outside of what is normally comes with of any MMO expansion.

free 2 play gw2 is absolutely the best trial mode of any mmorpg. actually its currently the best mmorpg free or paid. avoid the kittenness i experienced by just waiting out till HOT goes down to normal 30 expansion price and you will love this game for years to come.

IM glad your enjoying your experience so far bud. Go tell your friends about it.. gogo!

no seriously i want a bigger community

stop reading go tweet

Guys guild wars 2 is not pay to win period, devs have to make money somehow and guild wars has always been about buying expansions, atleast they are not releasing constant expansions every 2 months like some mmorpgs use to. You rather have a free to play game with a toxic community considering no one would have to spend money? Anet did a hek of a job with this, it should be buy to play.

I personally am use to old sub fees or buy to play games so the concept doesnt bother me but trust me f2p games will always cost more then buy to play mmorpgs like this, I dont see the big deal anyways if you already buy single player games why not buy this? You can drop this game and go play some indie games or something and come back.

And anyone who is complaining about the expansion price is just wrong, you get a new classes and new elite specs, a reason to play beyond level 80 that alone is worth it for an rpg. I dont understand how 50 is asking to much, I have seen many expansions with far less for around 60.

Rocknull.2986:

free 2 play gw2 is absolutely the best trial mode of any mmorpg. actually its currently the best mmorpg free or paid. avoid the kittenness i experienced by just waiting out till HOT goes down to normal 30 expansion price and you will love this game for years to come.

IM glad your enjoying your experience so far bud. Go tell your friends about it.. gogo!

no seriously i want a bigger community

stop reading go tweet

Thanks man I will!

I played via a free to play account for a good three months. Hands down the best trail/free to play mode I have ever tried.

Although you are limited in some aspects; all of your achievements, collections etc carry over after upgrading.

I myself was worried about the whole gem shop and the potential of the game switching to a p2w format. Fortunately that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Although there are a few things that could be improved with the HoT expansion All in all I am a very happy customer.

That being said one thing I do not look forward to is paying for further expansions. 60 dollars is a lot of money. I can only imagine how angry the player base was when it was released to free to play, considering they forked out 60 dollars for the initial game which they eventually gave away for free.
so we are looking at 120 dollars for some players which is insane! absolutely insane.
And ls2 is not even factored into this price.

Future expansions if set at the same price seem a bit absurd. I’m willing to fork out 20 dollars. That seems fair in my book. But with the glitchy content and the unfinished feel in HoT as well as the scrapping of legendarys why would I EVER pay $60 again.
Don’t get me wrong I probably will because its a great game but honestly this is high, very high.

Then we hear of teams being dismantled and reworked into areas. Why do I care? Its your job its not my fault you goofed, fix it find a solution and stop making excuses.

to sum it up.
Its a fun game
But with serious issues. Pay wisely

Before this topic goes any further, I think it needs to be said that Pay-to-win ONLY is attributed with a microtransaction that allow you to gain an advantage over others due to people pouring in large sums of money that they have(iOS cash cow games that let you progress quickly or gain power quickly for example). Pay-to-win does NOT apply just because you have to pay for a game.

Emerik.7846:

I played via a free to play account for a good three months. Hands down the best trail/free to play mode I have ever tried.

Although you are limited in some aspects; all of your achievements, collections etc carry over after upgrading.

I myself was worried about the whole gem shop and the potential of the game switching to a p2w format. Fortunately that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Although there are a few things that could be improved with the HoT expansion All in all I am a very happy customer.

That being said one thing I do not look forward to is paying for further expansions. 60 dollars is a lot of money. I can only imagine how angry the player base was when it was released to free to play, considering they forked out 60 dollars for the initial game which they eventually gave away for free.
so we are looking at 120 dollars for some players which is insane! absolutely insane.
And ls2 is not even factored into this price.

Future expansions if set at the same price seem a bit absurd. I’m willing to fork out 20 dollars. That seems fair in my book. But with the glitchy content and the unfinished feel in HoT as well as the scrapping of legendarys why would I EVER pay $60 again.
Don’t get me wrong I probably will because its a great game but honestly this is high, very high.

Then we hear of teams being dismantled and reworked into areas. Why do I care? Its your job its not my fault you goofed, fix it find a solution and stop making excuses.

to sum it up.
Its a fun game
But with serious issues. Pay wisely

The 120 dollars argument is odd, if you buy single player games how much do you spend in a year? Guild wars 2 alone costed around 20 dollars a while back before the expansions and 10 on sales, so when it was 50 thats a good what 2 or 3 years before the expansion came out?

Im pretty sure people who upgraded to the expac got exlusive stuff for already spending money on guild wars 2 in the past, now if no one got anything for it then yea I can understand why but otherwise no.

Gendou.9620:

Before this topic goes any further, I think it needs to be said that Pay-to-win ONLY is attributed with a microtransaction that allow you to gain an advantage over others due to people pouring in large sums of money that they have(iOS cash cow games that let you progress quickly or gain power quickly for example). Pay-to-win does NOT apply just because you have to pay for a game.

The simple fact is guild wars 2 is quality for an mmorpg and objectively worth money to buy it compared to all the other mmorpgs they call mmorpgs out there right now.

Ryou.2398:

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Stiofan.6720:

All the best pvp builds require HoT that makes it kinda p2w tbh.

Not quite. I’m not really into PvP, but from what I’ve heard some people made it into legendary divisions with a free account, which means no elite specializations.
Yes, in general elite specs are stronger than the base class. Anet never denied it, they always meant elite specs to be superior to regular ones (guess why they’re called elite). From what I’ve understood, future elite specs should be on par with the current ones, so there’ll be no more power creep once you’ve got at least the first GW2 expansion and one elite spec unlocked. If anything, you can call it buy to win, because after you get HoT, none of the future elite specs should overshadow your current one. Definitely not pay to win.

Also, we don’t even know whether OP was talking about PvP, it’s kind of bold to just assume that. While the power creep is present in PvE just as much as in PvP, it’s not nearly as apparent and there are still ways how to play efficiently with your base class (even metabattle still lists non-HoT builds for PvE).

Do you know if they plan on releasing new elite specs? That would be really cool, I thought I read somewhere long ago they might.

At the very least, they WANT to release more. This much was made clear when they talked about the changes to guardian, including the elite spec. It was when they talked about having removed the two Tome elites and converting them into a signet and a shout.

Ryou.2398:

Emerik.7846:

I played via a free to play account for a good three months. Hands down the best trail/free to play mode I have ever tried.

Although you are limited in some aspects; all of your achievements, collections etc carry over after upgrading.

I myself was worried about the whole gem shop and the potential of the game switching to a p2w format. Fortunately that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Although there are a few things that could be improved with the HoT expansion All in all I am a very happy customer.

That being said one thing I do not look forward to is paying for further expansions. 60 dollars is a lot of money. I can only imagine how angry the player base was when it was released to free to play, considering they forked out 60 dollars for the initial game which they eventually gave away for free.
so we are looking at 120 dollars for some players which is insane! absolutely insane.
And ls2 is not even factored into this price.

Future expansions if set at the same price seem a bit absurd. I’m willing to fork out 20 dollars. That seems fair in my book. But with the glitchy content and the unfinished feel in HoT as well as the scrapping of legendarys why would I EVER pay $60 again.
Don’t get me wrong I probably will because its a great game but honestly this is high, very high.

Then we hear of teams being dismantled and reworked into areas. Why do I care? Its your job its not my fault you goofed, fix it find a solution and stop making excuses.

to sum it up.
Its a fun game
But with serious issues. Pay wisely

The 120 dollars argument is odd, if you buy single player games how much do you spend in a year? Guild wars 2 alone costed around 20 dollars a while back before the expansions and 10 on sales, so when it was 50 thats a good what 2 or 3 years before the expansion came out?

Im pretty sure people who upgraded to the expac got exlusive stuff for already spending money on guild wars 2 in the past, now if no one got anything for it then yea I can understand why but otherwise no.

It’s not an argument
As I wrote above I have been playing 4 months. I am fairly stating the fact that I can see why some players would be disgruntled esp when you take into acct the rest of what I wrote

Emerik.7846:

Ryou.2398:

Emerik.7846:

I played via a free to play account for a good three months. Hands down the best trail/free to play mode I have ever tried.

Although you are limited in some aspects; all of your achievements, collections etc carry over after upgrading.

I myself was worried about the whole gem shop and the potential of the game switching to a p2w format. Fortunately that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Although there are a few things that could be improved with the HoT expansion All in all I am a very happy customer.

That being said one thing I do not look forward to is paying for further expansions. 60 dollars is a lot of money. I can only imagine how angry the player base was when it was released to free to play, considering they forked out 60 dollars for the initial game which they eventually gave away for free.
so we are looking at 120 dollars for some players which is insane! absolutely insane.
And ls2 is not even factored into this price.

Future expansions if set at the same price seem a bit absurd. I’m willing to fork out 20 dollars. That seems fair in my book. But with the glitchy content and the unfinished feel in HoT as well as the scrapping of legendarys why would I EVER pay $60 again.
Don’t get me wrong I probably will because its a great game but honestly this is high, very high.

Then we hear of teams being dismantled and reworked into areas. Why do I care? Its your job its not my fault you goofed, fix it find a solution and stop making excuses.

to sum it up.
Its a fun game
But with serious issues. Pay wisely

The 120 dollars argument is odd, if you buy single player games how much do you spend in a year? Guild wars 2 alone costed around 20 dollars a while back before the expansions and 10 on sales, so when it was 50 thats a good what 2 or 3 years before the expansion came out?

Im pretty sure people who upgraded to the expac got exlusive stuff for already spending money on guild wars 2 in the past, now if no one got anything for it then yea I can understand why but otherwise no.

It’s not an argument
As I wrote above I have been playing 4 months. I am fairly stating the fact that I can see why some players would be disgruntled esp when you take into acct the rest of what I wrote

Which again doesnt make sense considering they did get something for it.

Gremix.2514:

Gendou.9620:

Before this topic goes any further, I think it needs to be said that Pay-to-win ONLY is attributed with a microtransaction that allow you to gain an advantage over others due to people pouring in large sums of money that they have(iOS cash cow games that let you progress quickly or gain power quickly for example). Pay-to-win does NOT apply just because you have to pay for a game.

Not everything is P2W in GW2, but I feel there’s quite a bit and appears that there’s always more opening up:

It all starts with Cash->Gems->Gold, then:

• Buy runs in dungeons to get top-end Ascended rings for use in PvE or WvW (which is PvP-based)
• Buy dungeon achievements
• Buy numerous other achievements where paths exists to buy them (e.g. Exotic Hunter for Karmic Converter is one that immediately comes to mind)
• Buy HoT for Elite specs for them being them slightly overpowered in PvP and WvW
• Use crafting to almost immediately level your character to level 80
• Buy SAB runs for top-end Ascended weapons, achievements, and infusions (which also give +5 power bonus)
• Buy raid parties for “The Eternal” title achievement, +161 -> +166 Mastery Points, Insights to obtain legendary armor, etc.
• Buy old legendary weapons (which have top-end stats)

Love it or hate it, that kind of makes these things have a pay-to-win path in my mind. I’m sure there’s endless more but these are the ones that immediately come to mind. Even by your definition, you can progress quickly (craft your way to level 80) and by HoT elite specs, and gain advantages in PvP and WvW.

I’ll go with “The majority of GW2 can be P2W if you choose that path.” I’m not saying avoid GW2 or that it’s not worth the money. It’s just that P2W exists in the game, in my opinion.

That does not make it pay to win at all.

The only thing one could argue is HoT, but that’s not really p2w in the microtransaction sense. If Anet had released a HoT style expansion every 3rd month that rendered previous specs obsolete I’d agree with you, but they dont. You cant go to the BL store and buy a pot that give you 100% HP and endurance on a 3s cooldown… and you can use it in sPvP. The game is is 4 years old and everyone that plays GW2 seriously will already have HoT.

But if you ignore HoT, does any of that give you an advantage in sPvP? Nope, not at all because none of that matter, sPvP stats are unique to sPvP.

Does any of that give you an advantage in WvW? Tiny and marginal at best, any real WvW player will completely own you without even breaking a sweat if you’ve bought your ~5% better stats by doing PvE.

Dawdler.8521:

Gremix.2514:

Gendou.9620:

Before this topic goes any further, I think it needs to be said that Pay-to-win ONLY is attributed with a microtransaction that allow you to gain an advantage over others due to people pouring in large sums of money that they have(iOS cash cow games that let you progress quickly or gain power quickly for example). Pay-to-win does NOT apply just because you have to pay for a game.

Not everything is P2W in GW2, but I feel there’s quite a bit and appears that there’s always more opening up:

It all starts with Cash->Gems->Gold, then:

• Buy runs in dungeons to get top-end Ascended rings for use in PvE or WvW (which is PvP-based)
• Buy dungeon achievements
• Buy numerous other achievements where paths exists to buy them (e.g. Exotic Hunter for Karmic Converter is one that immediately comes to mind)
• Buy HoT for Elite specs for them being them slightly overpowered in PvP and WvW
• Use crafting to almost immediately level your character to level 80
• Buy SAB runs for top-end Ascended weapons, achievements, and infusions (which also give +5 power bonus)
• Buy raid parties for “The Eternal” title achievement, +161 -> +166 Mastery Points, Insights to obtain legendary armor, etc.
• Buy old legendary weapons (which have top-end stats)

Love it or hate it, that kind of makes these things have a pay-to-win path in my mind. I’m sure there’s endless more but these are the ones that immediately come to mind. Even by your definition, you can progress quickly (craft your way to level 80) and by HoT elite specs, and gain advantages in PvP and WvW.

I’ll go with “The majority of GW2 can be P2W if you choose that path.” I’m not saying avoid GW2 or that it’s not worth the money. It’s just that P2W exists in the game, in my opinion.

That does not make it pay to win at all.

The only thing one could argue is HoT, but that’s not really p2w in the microtransaction sense. If Anet had released a HoT style expansion every 3rd month that rendered previous specs obsolete I’d agree with you, but they dont. You cant go to the BL store and buy a pot that give you 100% HP and endurance on a 3s cooldown… and you can use it in sPvP. The game is is 4 years old and everyone that plays GW2 seriously will already have HoT.

But if you ignore HoT, does any of that give you an advantage in sPvP? Nope, not at all because none of that matter, sPvP stats are unique to sPvP.

Does any of that give you an advantage in WvW? Tiny and marginal at best, any real WvW player will completely own you without even breaking a sweat if you’ve bought your ~5% better stats by doing PvE.

I was told gold is farily easy to obtain anyways which kind of makes it void, taking a few looks at the shop you can see there are some nice convinient things you can get that might help make things a little easier but they arent expensive and account bound anyways.

Ryou.2398:

Emerik.7846:

Ryou.2398:

Emerik.7846:

I played via a free to play account for a good three months. Hands down the best trail/free to play mode I have ever tried.

Although you are limited in some aspects; all of your achievements, collections etc carry over after upgrading.

I myself was worried about the whole gem shop and the potential of the game switching to a p2w format. Fortunately that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Although there are a few things that could be improved with the HoT expansion All in all I am a very happy customer.

That being said one thing I do not look forward to is paying for further expansions. 60 dollars is a lot of money. I can only imagine how angry the player base was when it was released to free to play, considering they forked out 60 dollars for the initial game which they eventually gave away for free.
so we are looking at 120 dollars for some players which is insane! absolutely insane.
And ls2 is not even factored into this price.

Future expansions if set at the same price seem a bit absurd. I’m willing to fork out 20 dollars. That seems fair in my book. But with the glitchy content and the unfinished feel in HoT as well as the scrapping of legendarys why would I EVER pay $60 again.
Don’t get me wrong I probably will because its a great game but honestly this is high, very high.

Then we hear of teams being dismantled and reworked into areas. Why do I care? Its your job its not my fault you goofed, fix it find a solution and stop making excuses.

to sum it up.
Its a fun game
But with serious issues. Pay wisely

The 120 dollars argument is odd, if you buy single player games how much do you spend in a year? Guild wars 2 alone costed around 20 dollars a while back before the expansions and 10 on sales, so when it was 50 thats a good what 2 or 3 years before the expansion came out?

Im pretty sure people who upgraded to the expac got exlusive stuff for already spending money on guild wars 2 in the past, now if no one got anything for it then yea I can understand why but otherwise no.

It’s not an argument
As I wrote above I have been playing 4 months. I am fairly stating the fact that I can see why some players would be disgruntled esp when you take into acct the rest of what I wrote

Which again doesnt make sense considering they did get something for it.

It makes sense if you can’t figure it out idk what to tell you. Read through the forums the same issue comes up over and over and over again. I will leave it at that i don’t feel like arguing over a simple concept you can’t seem to grasp.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

[…] Anet never denied it, they always meant elite specs to be superior to regular ones (guess why they’re called elite). […]

It’s the other way around, totally. I’m not sure how could you have missed that, they hyped them as a form of horizontal progression for sooo long. If you’re not sure about what you write, please refrain from misinforming people at least.

Anyway about the OP, p2w is a pretty generic term, many would say that mmorpg are becoming more and more pay to “convenience” which is in my opinion just another way to spell p2w.
To me anything that falls under our 3rd party software definition of “advantage”, but it’s granted through an ingame store, classify a game as p2w one.

Is gw2 p2w? Probably just partially and for sure one of the few game around with a store with a relatively low impact on the gameplay.

Erick Alastor.3917:

Tarasicodissa.7084:

[…] Anet never denied it, they always meant elite specs to be superior to regular ones (guess why they’re called elite). […]

It’s the other way around, totally. I’m not sure how could you have missed that, they hyped them as a form of horizontal progression for sooo long. If you’re not sure about what you write, please refrain from misinforming people at least.

Anyway about the OP, p2w is a pretty generic term, many would say that mmorpg are becoming more and more pay to “convenience” which is in my opinion just another way to spell p2w.
To me anything that falls under our 3rd party software definition of “advantage”, but it’s granted through an ingame store, classify a game as p2w one.

Is gw2 p2w? Probably just partially and for sure one of the few game around with a store with a relatively low impact on the gameplay.

I dont know about elite specs being superior eiether, maybe some of them for certain things like pvp but really all of them? That would mean zero build diversity and for people to stick around that wouldnt make sense.

Gremix.2514:

Gendou.9620:

Before this topic goes any further, I think it needs to be said that Pay-to-win ONLY is attributed with a microtransaction that allow you to gain an advantage over others due to people pouring in large sums of money that they have(iOS cash cow games that let you progress quickly or gain power quickly for example). Pay-to-win does NOT apply just because you have to pay for a game.

Not everything is P2W in GW2, but I feel there’s quite a bit and appears that there’s always more opening up:

It all starts with Cash->Gems->Gold, then:

• Buy runs in dungeons to get top-end Ascended rings for use in PvE or WvW (which is PvP-based)
• Buy dungeon achievements
• Buy numerous other achievements where paths exists to buy them (e.g. Exotic Hunter for Karmic Converter is one that immediately comes to mind)
• Buy HoT for Elite specs for them being them slightly overpowered in PvP and WvW
• Use crafting to almost immediately level your character to level 80
• Buy SAB runs for top-end Ascended weapons, achievements, and infusions (which also give +5 power bonus)
• Buy raid parties for “The Eternal” title achievement, +161 -> +166 Mastery Points, Insights to obtain legendary armor, etc.
• Buy old legendary weapons (which have top-end stats)

Love it or hate it, that kind of makes these things have a pay-to-win path in my mind. I’m sure there’s endless more but these are the ones that immediately come to mind. Even by your definition, you can progress quickly (craft your way to level 80) and by HoT elite specs, and gain advantages in PvP and WvW.

I’ll go with “The majority of GW2 can be P2W if you choose that path.” I’m not saying avoid GW2 or that it’s not worth the money. It’s just that P2W exists in the game, in my opinion.

That sounds more like paying to avoid playing the game to me.

Even if you do all that what have you won? What advantage does it give you over other players in any game mode?

You might be able to fool someone into thinking you’ve been playing longer than you have by showing off the gear, skins, achievements etc. but that doesn’t get you anywhere.

In PvP everyone is on equal footing anyway, buying titles and ascended equipment won’t make any difference there. Even in WvW and PvE the difference from ascended equipment is minimal and the fact that you’re unlikely to have much experience actually playing your character will cancel it out. Especially in WvW: you can have a commander tag, full ascended equipment with infusions, thousands of achievement points and dozens of titles but if you don’t know how you actually play WvW and command a map no one is going to listen to you.

In actual pay-to-win games top tier equipment is the deciding factor in a fight. If you’ve got it then you can breeze through everything – you’ll have an easy time in any fight, be everyone’s number 1 choice for teams, jump to the top of leaderboards etc. so if you buy it you are pretty much buying the ability to ‘win’ the game (although winning in any MMO is debatable).

In some really extreme games they then add more toxic factors in. For example the best weapons (think legendary style skins but with double the stats) are exclusively available as rewards for the person who spent the most money on RNG boxes (like black lion chests/keys) that month. Or you can buy them directly, for about $50 each, but they expire after 30 days and then you have to buy another one.

They also do things like sell crafting upgrades in the cash shop which are the only way to make the higher tiers of equipment, but it’s random whether they work and the chance of failure is very high. Or flat out sell items which are the only way to level up after a certain point.

Everything is p2w. If you have the gold you can buy, weps, raids, seasonal and yes, even PvP.

Emerik.7846:

Ryou.2398:

Emerik.7846:

Ryou.2398:

Emerik.7846:

I played via a free to play account for a good three months. Hands down the best trail/free to play mode I have ever tried.

Although you are limited in some aspects; all of your achievements, collections etc carry over after upgrading.

I myself was worried about the whole gem shop and the potential of the game switching to a p2w format. Fortunately that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Although there are a few things that could be improved with the HoT expansion All in all I am a very happy customer.

That being said one thing I do not look forward to is paying for further expansions. 60 dollars is a lot of money. I can only imagine how angry the player base was when it was released to free to play, considering they forked out 60 dollars for the initial game which they eventually gave away for free.
so we are looking at 120 dollars for some players which is insane! absolutely insane.
And ls2 is not even factored into this price.

Future expansions if set at the same price seem a bit absurd. I’m willing to fork out 20 dollars. That seems fair in my book. But with the glitchy content and the unfinished feel in HoT as well as the scrapping of legendarys why would I EVER pay $60 again.
Don’t get me wrong I probably will because its a great game but honestly this is high, very high.

Then we hear of teams being dismantled and reworked into areas. Why do I care? Its your job its not my fault you goofed, fix it find a solution and stop making excuses.

to sum it up.
Its a fun game
But with serious issues. Pay wisely

The 120 dollars argument is odd, if you buy single player games how much do you spend in a year? Guild wars 2 alone costed around 20 dollars a while back before the expansions and 10 on sales, so when it was 50 thats a good what 2 or 3 years before the expansion came out?

Im pretty sure people who upgraded to the expac got exlusive stuff for already spending money on guild wars 2 in the past, now if no one got anything for it then yea I can understand why but otherwise no.

It’s not an argument
As I wrote above I have been playing 4 months. I am fairly stating the fact that I can see why some players would be disgruntled esp when you take into acct the rest of what I wrote

Which again doesnt make sense considering they did get something for it.

It makes sense if you can’t figure it out idk what to tell you. Read through the forums the same issue comes up over and over and over again. I will leave it at that i don’t feel like arguing over a simple concept you can’t seem to grasp.

It doesnt make sense because they did get something for it and considering its been 3 years and you get a huge amount of hours in this game compared to a brand new single player game around the same price your argument is just false man im sorry but it is.

Danikat.8537:

Gremix.2514:

Gendou.9620:

Before this topic goes any further, I think it needs to be said that Pay-to-win ONLY is attributed with a microtransaction that allow you to gain an advantage over others due to people pouring in large sums of money that they have(iOS cash cow games that let you progress quickly or gain power quickly for example). Pay-to-win does NOT apply just because you have to pay for a game.

Not everything is P2W in GW2, but I feel there’s quite a bit and appears that there’s always more opening up:

It all starts with Cash->Gems->Gold, then:

• Buy runs in dungeons to get top-end Ascended rings for use in PvE or WvW (which is PvP-based)
• Buy dungeon achievements
• Buy numerous other achievements where paths exists to buy them (e.g. Exotic Hunter for Karmic Converter is one that immediately comes to mind)
• Buy HoT for Elite specs for them being them slightly overpowered in PvP and WvW
• Use crafting to almost immediately level your character to level 80
• Buy SAB runs for top-end Ascended weapons, achievements, and infusions (which also give +5 power bonus)
• Buy raid parties for “The Eternal” title achievement, +161 -> +166 Mastery Points, Insights to obtain legendary armor, etc.
• Buy old legendary weapons (which have top-end stats)

Love it or hate it, that kind of makes these things have a pay-to-win path in my mind. I’m sure there’s endless more but these are the ones that immediately come to mind. Even by your definition, you can progress quickly (craft your way to level 80) and by HoT elite specs, and gain advantages in PvP and WvW.

I’ll go with “The majority of GW2 can be P2W if you choose that path.” I’m not saying avoid GW2 or that it’s not worth the money. It’s just that P2W exists in the game, in my opinion.

That sounds more like paying to avoid playing the game to me.

Even if you do all that what have you won? What advantage does it give you over other players in any game mode?

You might be able to fool someone into thinking you’ve been playing longer than you have by showing off the gear, skins, achievements etc. but that doesn’t get you anywhere.

In PvP everyone is on equal footing anyway, buying titles and ascended equipment won’t make any difference there. Even in WvW and PvE the difference from ascended equipment is minimal and the fact that you’re unlikely to have much experience actually playing your character will cancel it out. Especially in WvW: you can have a commander tag, full ascended equipment with infusions, thousands of achievement points and dozens of titles but if you don’t know how you actually play WvW and command a map no one is going to listen to you.

In actual pay-to-win games top tier equipment is the deciding factor in a fight. If you’ve got it then you can breeze through everything – you’ll have an easy time in any fight, be everyone’s number 1 choice for teams, jump to the top of leaderboards etc. so if you buy it you are pretty much buying the ability to ‘win’ the game (although winning in any MMO is debatable).

In some really extreme games they then add more toxic factors in. For example the best weapons (think legendary style skins but with double the stats) are exclusively available as rewards for the person who spent the most money on RNG boxes (like black lion chests/keys) that month. Or you can buy them directly, for about $50 each, but they expire after 30 days and then you have to buy another one.

They also do things like sell crafting upgrades in the cash shop which are the only way to make the higher tiers of equipment, but it’s random whether they work and the chance of failure is very high. Or flat out sell items which are the only way to level up after a certain point.

Thats one of the reasons I personally cannot stand micro transactions in games because they take away any sense of progression, its just instant gratification with money and guild wars 2 does not have it really.

P2W generally refers to buying a stat/skill advantage that others can’t get without also buying. And it’s buying from the company, not paying another player to assist you to complete some task for reward as some have listed here.

There really isn’t any Pay to Win with the exception of Elite Specializations generally dominating PvP and seeming P2W to F2P/P4F PvPers.

Gremix.2514:

Gendou.9620:

Before this topic goes any further, I think it needs to be said that Pay-to-win ONLY is attributed with a microtransaction that allow you to gain an advantage over others due to people pouring in large sums of money that they have(iOS cash cow games that let you progress quickly or gain power quickly for example). Pay-to-win does NOT apply just because you have to pay for a game.

Not everything is P2W in GW2, but I feel there’s quite a bit and appears that there’s always more opening up:

It all starts with Cash->Gems->Gold, then:

• Buy runs in dungeons to get top-end Ascended rings for use in PvE or WvW (which is PvP-based)
• Buy dungeon achievements
• Buy numerous other achievements where paths exists to buy them (e.g. Exotic Hunter for Karmic Converter is one that immediately comes to mind)
• Buy HoT for Elite specs for them being them slightly overpowered in PvP and WvW
• Use crafting to almost immediately level your character to level 80
• Buy SAB runs for top-end Ascended weapons, achievements, and infusions (which also give +5 power bonus)
• Buy raid parties for “The Eternal” title achievement, +161 -> +166 Mastery Points, Insights to obtain legendary armor, etc.
• Buy old legendary weapons (which have top-end stats)

Love it or hate it, that kind of makes these things have a pay-to-win path in my mind. I’m sure there’s endless more but these are the ones that immediately come to mind. Even by your definition, you can progress quickly (craft your way to level 80) and by HoT elite specs, and gain advantages in PvP and WvW.

I’ll go with “The majority of GW2 can be P2W if you choose that path.” I’m not saying avoid GW2 or that it’s not worth the money. It’s just that P2W exists in the game, in my opinion.

All mmos, where it’s allowed, sell runs such as raids, dungeons, etc.

For example, FFXIV : You can see a lot of Raids selling if you are in a server with a good amount of people.

Khyan.7039:

Gremix.2514:

Gendou.9620:

Before this topic goes any further, I think it needs to be said that Pay-to-win ONLY is attributed with a microtransaction that allow you to gain an advantage over others due to people pouring in large sums of money that they have(iOS cash cow games that let you progress quickly or gain power quickly for example). Pay-to-win does NOT apply just because you have to pay for a game.

Not everything is P2W in GW2, but I feel there’s quite a bit and appears that there’s always more opening up:

It all starts with Cash->Gems->Gold, then:

• Buy runs in dungeons to get top-end Ascended rings for use in PvE or WvW (which is PvP-based)
• Buy dungeon achievements
• Buy numerous other achievements where paths exists to buy them (e.g. Exotic Hunter for Karmic Converter is one that immediately comes to mind)
• Buy HoT for Elite specs for them being them slightly overpowered in PvP and WvW
• Use crafting to almost immediately level your character to level 80
• Buy SAB runs for top-end Ascended weapons, achievements, and infusions (which also give +5 power bonus)
• Buy raid parties for “The Eternal” title achievement, +161 -> +166 Mastery Points, Insights to obtain legendary armor, etc.
• Buy old legendary weapons (which have top-end stats)

Love it or hate it, that kind of makes these things have a pay-to-win path in my mind. I’m sure there’s endless more but these are the ones that immediately come to mind. Even by your definition, you can progress quickly (craft your way to level 80) and by HoT elite specs, and gain advantages in PvP and WvW.

I’ll go with “The majority of GW2 can be P2W if you choose that path.” I’m not saying avoid GW2 or that it’s not worth the money. It’s just that P2W exists in the game, in my opinion.

All mmos, where it’s allowed, sell runs such as raids, dungeons, etc.

For example, FFXIV : You can see a lot of Raids selling if you are in a server with a good amount of people.

All MMOs?

Almost all games ever designed if using ingame currency and time is his definition of p2w.

Original Zelda on Nintendo for example, totally p2w because there’s a store in it.

Age Of Empires, Mass Effect, Bioshock, Starcraft, Elder Scrolls, Shogun, GTA, OMG it’s all p2w!!!

Ryou.2398:

Gendou.9620:

Before this topic goes any further, I think it needs to be said that Pay-to-win ONLY is attributed with a microtransaction that allow you to gain an advantage over others due to people pouring in large sums of money that they have(iOS cash cow games that let you progress quickly or gain power quickly for example). Pay-to-win does NOT apply just because you have to pay for a game.

The simple fact is guild wars 2 is quality for an mmorpg and objectively worth money to buy it compared to all the other mmorpgs they call mmorpgs out there right now.

You might want to look up the definitions of the words, “fact,” and, “objective.” You are misusing them here.

GW2 is p2 look good in robes if light, trench coats if medium, or oversized bulky boots if heavy to make it simple

Emerik.7846:

I played via a free to play account for a good three months. Hands down the best trail/free to play mode I have ever tried.

Although you are limited in some aspects; all of your achievements, collections etc carry over after upgrading.

I myself was worried about the whole gem shop and the potential of the game switching to a p2w format. Fortunately that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Although there are a few things that could be improved with the HoT expansion All in all I am a very happy customer.

That being said one thing I do not look forward to is paying for further expansions. 60 dollars is a lot of money. I can only imagine how angry the player base was when it was released to free to play, considering they forked out 60 dollars for the initial game which they eventually gave away for free.
so we are looking at 120 dollars for some players which is insane! absolutely insane.
And ls2 is not even factored into this price.

Future expansions if set at the same price seem a bit absurd. I’m willing to fork out 20 dollars. That seems fair in my book. But with the glitchy content and the unfinished feel in HoT as well as the scrapping of legendarys why would I EVER pay $60 again.
Don’t get me wrong I probably will because its a great game but honestly this is high, very high.

Then we hear of teams being dismantled and reworked into areas. Why do I care? Its your job its not my fault you goofed, fix it find a solution and stop making excuses.

to sum it up.
Its a fun game
But with serious issues. Pay wisely

As a player who paid the full $60 for both the original game and the expansion, I personally feel I have gotten more than my money’s worth for the game. With all the permanent content, Living Story, and festivals, I feel my money was well spent. I am not the least bit bitter about the core game becoming available as an endless F2P trial. In fact, I actually think it’s a really good idea and will encourage people to try it out (after which, I think they will decide they want to try the paid content and buy the expansion).

Bron.9647:

As a player who paid the full $60 for both the original game and the expansion, I personally feel I have gotten more than my money’s worth for the game. With all the permanent content, Living Story, and festivals, I feel my money was well spent. I am not the least bit bitter about the core game becoming available as an endless F2P trial. In fact, I actually think it’s a really good idea and will encourage people to try it out (after which, I think they will decide they want to try the paid content and buy the expansion).

That doesn’t actually seem to be happening. I don’t have the link, but I read an article recently in which GW2’s people had indicated that they weren’t receiving sales in the numbers that they’d hoped for from having gone F2P.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Bron.9647:

As a player who paid the full $60 for both the original game and the expansion, I personally feel I have gotten more than my money’s worth for the game. With all the permanent content, Living Story, and festivals, I feel my money was well spent. I am not the least bit bitter about the core game becoming available as an endless F2P trial. In fact, I actually think it’s a really good idea and will encourage people to try it out (after which, I think they will decide they want to try the paid content and buy the expansion).

That doesn’t actually seem to be happening. I don’t have the link, but I read an article recently in which GW2’s people had indicated that they weren’t receiving sales in the numbers that they’d hoped for from having gone F2P.

If you could find where that came from I’d love to read it. I didn’t hear anything about it (which is surprising given the tendency for any news, and especially bad news, to make it’s way to this forum) and I’m always interested in what Anet think about how GW2 is doing.

I did try googling it but all I could find was an article on Ten Ton Hammer where one guy is surprised he hadn’t come across a press release about HoT sales, assumes it’s because it didn’t sell well and makes guesses about why that might be.

Dawdler.8521:

Khyan.7039:

Gremix.2514:

Gendou.9620:

Before this topic goes any further, I think it needs to be said that Pay-to-win ONLY is attributed with a microtransaction that allow you to gain an advantage over others due to people pouring in large sums of money that they have(iOS cash cow games that let you progress quickly or gain power quickly for example). Pay-to-win does NOT apply just because you have to pay for a game.

Not everything is P2W in GW2, but I feel there’s quite a bit and appears that there’s always more opening up:

It all starts with Cash->Gems->Gold, then:

• Buy runs in dungeons to get top-end Ascended rings for use in PvE or WvW (which is PvP-based)
• Buy dungeon achievements
• Buy numerous other achievements where paths exists to buy them (e.g. Exotic Hunter for Karmic Converter is one that immediately comes to mind)
• Buy HoT for Elite specs for them being them slightly overpowered in PvP and WvW
• Use crafting to almost immediately level your character to level 80
• Buy SAB runs for top-end Ascended weapons, achievements, and infusions (which also give +5 power bonus)
• Buy raid parties for “The Eternal” title achievement, +161 -> +166 Mastery Points, Insights to obtain legendary armor, etc.
• Buy old legendary weapons (which have top-end stats)

Love it or hate it, that kind of makes these things have a pay-to-win path in my mind. I’m sure there’s endless more but these are the ones that immediately come to mind. Even by your definition, you can progress quickly (craft your way to level 80) and by HoT elite specs, and gain advantages in PvP and WvW.

I’ll go with “The majority of GW2 can be P2W if you choose that path.” I’m not saying avoid GW2 or that it’s not worth the money. It’s just that P2W exists in the game, in my opinion.

All mmos, where it’s allowed, sell runs such as raids, dungeons, etc.

For example, FFXIV : You can see a lot of Raids selling if you are in a server with a good amount of people.

All MMOs?

Almost all games ever designed if using ingame currency and time is his definition of p2w.

Original Zelda on Nintendo for example, totally p2w because there’s a store in it.

Age Of Empires, Mass Effect, Bioshock, Starcraft, Elder Scrolls, Shogun, GTA, OMG it’s all p2w!!!

I hope thats sarcasm because none of those games had item shops for real money, some had dlc but that isnt pay to win, having a shop in a game is stuff you earn from progression lol your not making sense.

It’s generally Asian (Chinese and Korean mostly) MMOs that hardcore abuse Pay2Win. American ones not so much. Not that there’s really many of those.

Danikat.8537:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Bron.9647:

As a player who paid the full $60 for both the original game and the expansion, I personally feel I have gotten more than my money’s worth for the game. With all the permanent content, Living Story, and festivals, I feel my money was well spent. I am not the least bit bitter about the core game becoming available as an endless F2P trial. In fact, I actually think it’s a really good idea and will encourage people to try it out (after which, I think they will decide they want to try the paid content and buy the expansion).

That doesn’t actually seem to be happening. I don’t have the link, but I read an article recently in which GW2’s people had indicated that they weren’t receiving sales in the numbers that they’d hoped for from having gone F2P.

If you could find where that came from I’d love to read it. I didn’t hear anything about it (which is surprising given the tendency for any news, and especially bad news, to make it’s way to this forum) and I’m always interested in what Anet think about how GW2 is doing.

I did try googling it but all I could find was an article on Ten Ton Hammer where one guy is surprised he hadn’t come across a press release about HoT sales, assumes it’s because it didn’t sell well and makes guesses about why that might be.

It was part of the quarterly investor’s conference call for the 4Q/annual results. Sadly the service NCSOFT to host the CC doesn’t keep these around indefinitely so it’s no longer available to listen to, fortunately I downloaded it. I’ll try to transcribe. Excuse the punctuation, the translator is talking really fast and it’s not obvious where sentences end.

Q: I would like to ask you a question about GW2. It seems that the performance of the expansion pack is a bit weaker than what you have expected. So in terms of the business model, do you have any strategies for them to beef up in game item sales?

A: So to talk about the GW2 performance, it is weaker than what we had expected however I think that where the issue currently lies is that before the actual expansion pack was launched there was a free play area that we had opened and make available however if you look at the conversion of those players who are playing for free, to actual convert over to the paid expansion pack, that conversion rate has actually not been as high as we had hoped or expected. However in terms of the gems sales and also the item sales versus the amount of active players we think that area is okay but it’s more the issue of people converting over to the paid expansion pack that we had not seen come up to the level we had hoped.

So therefore to address that issue there are two strategies we are trying to look at. The first is to actually induced more conversion, to look at what is actually hindering people from converting over and trying to address that with events or maybe in game systems to try to promote more conversion that would be the first. And the second area of our strategy is that if you look at the actual expansion pack versus you know what our expectations were at the launching time versus what the response has been from our users, I think that there is a gap that we need to address so with regards to the direction of the content updates going forward and also the frequency in updates, this is something that we are currently reviewing and reconsidering at this time.

If you are interested, I’ll look into trying to convert it into an MP3 (South Korea loves proprietary formats from Microsoft that are DRMed) and find some nice site where I can post it anonymously.

It really depends on how loose your definition of P2W is. I would say any MMO with gem($$)->gold system with an trade post is somewhat P2W. Luckily with GW2 everyone ends ups roughly in the same spot stat-wise after playing the game normally so any advantage in throwing money to shortcut to ascended gear isn’t huge.

It also depends on what your definition of “win” is too. If “winning” to you is slapping on the rarest and most expensive skins possible then GW2 is very much P2W. There is also the thing with HoT specializations being better in most cases than vanilla.

roamzero.9486:

It really depends on how loose your definition of P2W is. I would say any MMO with gem($$)->gold system with an trade post is somewhat P2W. Luckily with GW2 everyone ends ups roughly in the same spot stat-wise after playing the game normally so any advantage in throwing money to shortcut to ascended gear isn’t huge.

It also depends on what your definition of “win” is too. If “winning” to you is slapping on the rarest and most expensive skins possible then GW2 is very much P2W. There is also the thing with HoT specializations being better in most cases than vanilla.

Except that can be said about any game with a 3rd party selling gold to players. Just because a company is trying to get a share of that money doesn’t make it P2W, otherwise every MMO that a gold selling site sells game currency for is P2W.

The only instance of P2W (and was a very minor case of P2W imo) was the watchwork mining pick that granted random sprockets in addition to whatever you mined. And at the time Anet stated they recognized it as such and would never repeat a similar item again. And so far they haven’t. You could still just buy gems with gold to get it though.

Ryou.2398:

Dawdler.8521:

Khyan.7039:

Gremix.2514:

Gendou.9620:

Before this topic goes any further, I think it needs to be said that Pay-to-win ONLY is attributed with a microtransaction that allow you to gain an advantage over others due to people pouring in large sums of money that they have(iOS cash cow games that let you progress quickly or gain power quickly for example). Pay-to-win does NOT apply just because you have to pay for a game.

Not everything is P2W in GW2, but I feel there’s quite a bit and appears that there’s always more opening up:

It all starts with Cash->Gems->Gold, then:

• Buy runs in dungeons to get top-end Ascended rings for use in PvE or WvW (which is PvP-based)
• Buy dungeon achievements
• Buy numerous other achievements where paths exists to buy them (e.g. Exotic Hunter for Karmic Converter is one that immediately comes to mind)
• Buy HoT for Elite specs for them being them slightly overpowered in PvP and WvW
• Use crafting to almost immediately level your character to level 80
• Buy SAB runs for top-end Ascended weapons, achievements, and infusions (which also give +5 power bonus)
• Buy raid parties for “The Eternal” title achievement, +161 -> +166 Mastery Points, Insights to obtain legendary armor, etc.
• Buy old legendary weapons (which have top-end stats)

Love it or hate it, that kind of makes these things have a pay-to-win path in my mind. I’m sure there’s endless more but these are the ones that immediately come to mind. Even by your definition, you can progress quickly (craft your way to level 80) and by HoT elite specs, and gain advantages in PvP and WvW.

I’ll go with “The majority of GW2 can be P2W if you choose that path.” I’m not saying avoid GW2 or that it’s not worth the money. It’s just that P2W exists in the game, in my opinion.

All mmos, where it’s allowed, sell runs such as raids, dungeons, etc.

For example, FFXIV : You can see a lot of Raids selling if you are in a server with a good amount of people.

All MMOs?

Almost all games ever designed if using ingame currency and time is his definition of p2w.

Original Zelda on Nintendo for example, totally p2w because there’s a store in it.

Age Of Empires, Mass Effect, Bioshock, Starcraft, Elder Scrolls, Shogun, GTA, OMG it’s all p2w!!!

I hope thats sarcasm because none of those games had item shops for real money, some had dlc but that isnt pay to win, having a shop in a game is stuff you earn from progression lol your not making sense.

And none of them are MMOs anyway.