Guild Wars 2

As long as they do it sensibly and within the horizontal progression style of GW2, a 10 man instanced(or so) raid for guilds could be pretty fun.

If they kept with the horizontal progression style of the game, then you wouldn’t have to worry about the whole gear treadmill thing and gearing up for raids in the same way you would other games. Also with the current loot system, you wouldn’t be fighting over loot.

So just make them like dungeons with 5 more people and cool armor/weapon skins as rewards or awesome guild rewards. Make it Something for guilds, but something that is completely optional and people would enjoy that I think.

My guild and I every few days, have taken 8-10 people to go kill the champion Karka boss guarding the rich orichalcum node and it’s pretty enjoyable. So as long as they implemented it right and did the “GW2 version of raiding”, I don’t see an issue with this. But Alas, some people are just afraid of the mention of the word “Raid”. Even though all of the open world events are pretty much exactly that, just with less coordination required. Any one else have thoughts on this?

They need to get dungeons, and the Dragons right first.

I’m willing to bet dungeons will always remain 5 man, and all larger scale stuff will be open world.

Idk. we’ve seen in GW1 they did have some 8-12 man dungeons, so I don’t think it would be that far of a stretch.

If they created raid content, I’d personally quit at the first mention of it. No offense.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

If they created raid content, I’d personally quit at the first mention of it. No offense.

Your loss.

Honestly with how the lack of the holy trinity has permanently crippled this game’s PVE adding five more players could at least overcome some of the drawbacks. Imagine if the Zhaitan fight had ten players instead of five? They might have actually been able to put something in the last phase other than the spam cannons and make it at best an acceptable encounter, not the bullcrap we got. As a general rule of thumb more players in an encounter equals more advanced tactics.

Heh. Might as well. We have WoW’s instanced gear grind, we are going to get WoW’s increasing level cap with each xpac, I really see no reason on holding back from adopting WoW’s raids as well.

No reason to do a job half way, I suppose! If Anet is going to slap the Guild Wars 1 crowd in the face and say “cry some more”, might as well slap ’em HARD!

I want raids, but only for WvW. Also an improved/fixed party system.

Tolmos.8395:

Heh. Might as well. We have WoW’s instanced gear grind, we are going to get WoW’s increasing level cap with each xpac, I really see no reason on holding back from adopting WoW’s raids as well.

No reason to do a job half way, I suppose!

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

If they created raid content, I’d personally quit at the first mention of it. No offense.

Why do people assume that raiding in GW2—which could include larger team dungeons like Urgoz/The Deep, even UW/FoW from GW—would be a carbon copy of WoW? Why would you not assume ANet would put their own spin on raiding, if they decided to go that route?

As long as they aren’t mandatory to get the best items, have at it.

Vasham.2408:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

If they created raid content, I’d personally quit at the first mention of it. No offense.

Your loss.

Honestly with how the lack of the holy trinity has permanently crippled this game’s PVE adding five more players could at least overcome some of the drawbacks. Imagine if the Zhaitan fight had ten players instead of five? They might have actually been able to put something in the last phase other than the spam cannons and make it at best an acceptable encounter, not the bullcrap we got. As a general rule of thumb more players in an encounter equals more advanced tactics.

I think that’s just a matter of opinion to be honest as far as the trinity system goes. I for one am actually enjoying the lack of a traditional holy trinity system and I know a ton of other players who enjoy it as well. As far as the Zhaitain fight goes, I think most of us agree it could have been a lot more epic, but as far as boss mechanics go, Giganticus lupicus from Arah explorable strikes my mind as having raid boss potential. Also with some of the more team based mechanics you see in fractals, such as holding the hammer, pouring oil on the boss, or having someone be in control of the giant fan. I think they could create some interesting ways to make mechanics for 5 more people.

Id relish GW2 raid content. Five man dungeons lack that epic feel and while open world boss events bring that back, the ease of the fight is laughable. Large scale dungeons (ie: raids) involving 10, 15, 20 players would be epic and a challenge and I really cannot see how anyone would have an issue with that so long as they are optional. Special skins, weapons, backpacks etc with no stat increase would be amazing.

Nobody would raid without epics.

Better big meta events is a good idea though. Maybe 8 person dungeons again.

Tolmos.8395:

Heh. Might as well. We have WoW’s instanced gear grind, we are going to get WoW’s increasing level cap with each xpac, I really see no reason on holding back from adopting WoW’s raids as well.

No reason to do a job half way, I suppose! If Anet is going to slap the Guild Wars 1 crowd in the face and say “cry some more”, might as well slap ’em HARD!

If we’re comparing the gear system in WoW to that of GW2. They are completely different.(so far at least). In WoW most of the content is gated in the form of gear progression. Meaning that unless you have kept up to date with all of the new tiers of gear you are basically restricted from being able to participate effectively in “end game” content. In order to get the necessary gear to advance, it usually takes months of grinding dailies, farming dungeons and raids or pvp arenas/battlegrounds. All in order to progress and experience the rest of the content.

In Guild Wars 2, yes there are different tiers of gear, but they do not serve as a barrier to entry for any part of the game and they are relatively easy to obtain.

Also in WoW there are usually massive stat differences between each tier, giving players huge advantages in PVP, and also putting pressure on PVE players to keep up with the gear treadmill in order to be picked for raids. In GW2 if we look at the differences between ascended gear and exotics. I believe it’s stated that it’s no more than an 8% increase or so. Seeing as how in PvE the only reason you need ascended gear currently is for fractals, and in PVP all gear is normalized, the only place this actually might matter is WvW in a 1v1 or a small group situation. This small percentage difference though between exotics and ascended gear, is still small enough to allow the more skilled player to win. Not to mention that WvW is about large group and server tactics, rather than individual fights.

Getting back on track, it’s quite possible for Arenanet to do their version of raiding without making it a copy of the traditional gear treadmill environment you see in other games such as World of Warcraft. We’ve seen them do their take on them in GW1 already and they were fine.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

If they created raid content, I’d personally quit at the first mention of it. No offense.

Any particular reason why? It’s not like you have to do them, and GW1 had ‘raids’ so to speak.

I’d love them to bring back the Elite Areas, personally. Far better than the linear raids WoW put out, tbh.

emikochan.8504:

Nobody would raid without epics.

Better big meta events is a good idea though. Maybe 8 person dungeons again.

You know, one of the things that I won’t complain about with GW2 is the lack of vertical gear progression. The only problem with it right now is there is so little gear to go after for looks. Adding raid content with new skins for armor/weapons would go a long way. Most of the time in WoW I don’t give a rat’s tail about stats as long as the weapon looks sufficiently awesome. There’s a reason people will farm old content just for the looks of classic gear, stats be darned.

Edit: Too many kittens.

Raid 8/12 would be cool.

Or, they just got to add elite areas, not linear, awsome armor and 8/12 guys.. awsome new content.

The both of them would be perfect! Yeah i know, i have a dream..

Arthur.8302:

Raid 8/12 would be cool.

Or, they just got to add elite areas, not linear, awsome armor and 8/12 guys.. awsome new content.

The both of them would be perfect! Yeah i know, i have a dream..

Yeah, I loved Elite Areas, with the massive quest chains, and multiple levels.

They really should bring these back, not to house the biggest, toughest bosses, but just as larger group content.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Arthur.8302:

Raid 8/12 would be cool.

Or, they just got to add elite areas, not linear, awsome armor and 8/12 guys.. awsome new content.

The both of them would be perfect! Yeah i know, i have a dream..

Yeah, I loved Elite Areas, with the massive quest chains, and multiple levels.

They really should bring these back, not to house the biggest, toughest bosses, but just as larger group content.

This would be pretty awesome too.

Im standing for open world raids too. If added, those who dont want have 0 thing to loose. You still can get everything without them. This is the major difference to other games where raid system is all or nothing, where all is for op chars like American Express and Visa Master. In GW2 all are power-wise equal. Getting wiped? Practise harder! Do team work! Plan your teams builds to SYNC!

TheDaiBish.9735:

Arthur.8302:

Raid 8/12 would be cool.

Or, they just got to add elite areas, not linear, awsome armor and 8/12 guys.. awsome new content.

The both of them would be perfect! Yeah i know, i have a dream..

Yeah, I loved Elite Areas, with the massive quest chains, and multiple levels.

They really should bring these back, not to house the biggest, toughest bosses, but just as larger group content.

Maybe throw in some giant megabosses that do more than stand still and look mean while you autoattack them to death. Honestly Arah should have been a raid, but that’s another opportunity Arenanet missed.

Raids would suck in GW2, there is no trinity. It’s just more zerg & chaos, what would be the point? Just adding more players doesn’t make it a raid.

The suggestion of raids is a very uncreative solution to the lack of epic PvE content. Just as criticizing the lack of the trinity in the game. The trinity is a crutch in MMO’s that has been used to death and desperately needs to be retired. This genre in general was growing very stale about 5 years ago.

I like alot of Arenanets idea’s they use in GW2 but simular to GW1 alot of idea’s just are not implemented will.

Just a suggestion off the top of my head. Five man dungeons that involve one epic boss fight with a boss the size of the current dragons or bigger and included checkpoints that save your progress from one phase to another. Remember Chronos in God of War 3. Something like that. Notice the lack of tanks and healers. Shadow of the Colossus is another game thats good to emulate for epic boss fights.

The fight could run for 40 mins with 10 phases that include the boss fight, add fights and just plain navagation around the area but is all focased on this one guy your fighting.

My point of this is an MMORPG should provide the most EPIC PvE content in video games and what get is extremely mundane. The boss fights in GW2 don’t even stack up against WoW and its fights from 5 years ago.

Though I do like Fractals alot and it is a more of what my expectations where when I bought GW2 . The MMO genre however is radically going to have to change its format if its going to survive in the future and raids and the holy trinity is not the answer. Just go check out SWTOR.

Blixxis.6798:

The suggestion of raids is a very uncreative solution to the lack of epic PvE content. Just as criticizing the lack of the trinity in the game. The trinity is a crutch in MMO’s that has been used to death and desperately needs to be retired. This genre in general was growing very stale about 5 years ago.

I like alot of Arenanets idea’s they use in GW2 but simular to GW1 alot of idea’s just are not implemented will.

Just a suggestion off the top of my head. Five man dungeons that involve one epic boss fight with a boss the size of the current dragons or bigger and included checkpoints that save your progress from one phase to another. Remember Chronos in God of War 3. Something like that. Notice the lack of tanks and healers. Shadow of the Colossus is another game thats good to emulate for epic boss fights.

The fight could run for 40 mins with 10 phases that include the boss fight, add fights and just plain navagation around the area but is all focased on this one guy your fighting.

My point of this is an MMORPG should provide the most EPIC PvE content in video games and what get is extremely mundane. The boss fights in GW2 don’t even stack up against WoW and its fights from 5 years ago.

Though I do like Fractals alot and it is a more of what my expectations where when I bought GW2 . The MMO genre however is radically going to have to change its format if its going to survive in the future and raids and the holy trinity is not the answer. Just go check out SWTOR.

Actually you’re wrong about one thing, the future of MMO’s is letting everyone tank or heal or dps. The trinity is a great system and it’s basically infallible, nothing has ever been made to top this system. And nothing ever will be. It’s what the entire foundation of MMO gaming was built off of.

It’s fun, no idea why people hate on it so much, the horrible part about it is devs just loooove to pigeon hole you into playing a certain class just so you can play those roles. However, if we were all allowed to choose to play any of those roles on any class while having a decent aggro system that would be the ideal MMO that everyone flocks to.

Watch, ESO is gonna be a huge hit. I also want to point out just how not the trinity has evolved, but the fights that people are making nowadays. In WoW there are multiple fights, in fact most of them require everyone to contribute the party in ways that have nothing to do with DPS. Whether that is kiting, CC, offhealing, offtanking, etc.

The trinity is fine. It should have never been messed with. It’s simply a lazy design what ANet have done because now they don’t have to make interesting fights or mobs.

Blixxis.6798:

The suggestion of raids is a very uncreative solution to the lack of epic PvE content. Just as criticizing the lack of the trinity in the game. The trinity is a crutch in MMO’s that has been used to death and desperately needs to be retired. This genre in general was growing very stale about 5 years ago.

I like alot of Arenanets idea’s they use in GW2 but simular to GW1 alot of idea’s just are not implemented will.

Just a suggestion off the top of my head. Five man dungeons that involve one epic boss fight with a boss the size of the current dragons or bigger and included checkpoints that save your progress from one phase to another. Remember Chronos in God of War 3. Something like that. Notice the lack of tanks and healers. Shadow of the Colossus is another game thats good to emulate for epic boss fights.

The fight could run for 40 mins with 10 phases that include the boss fight, add fights and just plain navagation around the area but is all focased on this one guy your fighting.

My point of this is an MMORPG should provide the most EPIC PvE content in video games and what get is extremely mundane. The boss fights in GW2 don’t even stack up against WoW and its fights from 5 years ago.

Though I do like Fractals alot and it is a more of what my expectations where when I bought GW2 . The MMO genre however is radically going to have to change its format if its going to survive in the future and raids and the holy trinity is not the answer. Just go check out SWTOR.

You might have read my post wrong, but the suggestion of raids was not meant to criticize them at all to be honest. Just thought it would be interesting to see some form of large group content. Mainly for guilds to tackle in the PVE front. I use the term “Raid” very loosely in this context and am all for Arenanet doing their take on it, or whatever PvE guild focused content they choose to implement.

While I do enjoy the current 5 man dungeons, as a guild leader I’d be nice to be able to bring more than 4 other guild members at a time to do some content that takes a significant amount of group coordination and/or skill.

Maybe when they inevitably add access to the Fissure of Woe and Underworld. Those will probably end up being “elite” areas just like they were in GW1.

I can see raiding in gw2 being like the zerg I just left in wv3 totally waste of time, no strat other than run around and dodge every time you get vigor up.

Asglarek.8976:

I can see raiding in gw2 being like the zerg I just left in wv3 totally waste of time, no strat other than run around and dodge every time you get vigor up.

In an instanced PVE situation where boss mechanics are highly controlled, you could avoid those situations completely by just adding difficult mechanics to the fight. In an open world situation yea, it could get zerged but it depends on which way they go about doing them. If at all.

LoL… ya that sounds great. Lets RAID in GW2, assuming that they made it actually hard where team comp mattered, but HEY, lets only do it for MORE SKINS.

You guys understand that the lack of endgame in GW2 is whats going to kill it right?

Great game, love it, but the zero end game is going to cut its life short. Dont front like people are REALLY willing to play for skins all day lol….

I would do raids in GW 2 but only if they make’em easy to do and you can buy weapons an armour sets that are easy to get with stats that are extremely powerful !!!!!

example: Sword of Balthazar
Type: Sword
Strength: 4000-5000
+500 Power
+500 Toughness
+500 Vitality
+1000 Condition Damage

I think just big dungeons for 10 people would work great in the current PVE meta.

Hell, they could just have raid 10 versions of the current dungeons and fractals.

25 man raiding is dead anyway, 10-man is where it’s at, and it’s not a big difference from 5-man dungeons at that point.

Same gear and tokens though, no gear differences from now, of course.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

If they created raid content, I’d personally quit at the first mention of it. No offense.

Likewise. They promised no raids, and this is one breach that would probably make me quit and take my monies elsewhere.

Blixxis.6798:

The suggestion of raids is a very uncreative solution to the lack of epic PvE content. Just as criticizing the lack of the trinity in the game. The trinity is a crutch in MMO’s that has been used to death and desperately needs to be retired. This genre in general was growing very stale about 5 years ago.

I like alot of Arenanets idea’s they use in GW2 but simular to GW1 alot of idea’s just are not implemented will.

Just a suggestion off the top of my head. Five man dungeons that involve one epic boss fight with a boss the size of the current dragons or bigger and included checkpoints that save your progress from one phase to another. Remember Chronos in God of War 3. Something like that. Notice the lack of tanks and healers. Shadow of the Colossus is another game thats good to emulate for epic boss fights.

The fight could run for 40 mins with 10 phases that include the boss fight, add fights and just plain navagation around the area but is all focased on this one guy your fighting.

My point of this is an MMORPG should provide the most EPIC PvE content in video games and what get is extremely mundane. The boss fights in GW2 don’t even stack up against WoW and its fights from 5 years ago.

Though I do like Fractals alot and it is a more of what my expectations where when I bought GW2 . The MMO genre however is radically going to have to change its format if its going to survive in the future and raids and the holy trinity is not the answer. Just go check out SWTOR.

I disagree. the whole concept of MMO is large scale gameplay. 5 man dungeons dont offer that.
20 players would be.
And currently no matter what can be done, the Dynamic Events will never replace Raids, since they have to be designed for all players and any number of random population. look at the current Dynamic Events. The fights are designed so everybody can join. Party Dungeons are not designed like this, since its in a instance. But it isnt large scale PvE. Raid Dungeons are. Which has the benefits of both.

I am pretty much convinced that both 10 and 20 player raiding in a conventional sense (PvE) would make sound commercial sense here.

There are several caveats to that though……..

1) The gear stat difference must not be massive (but I think folks would accept an enhancement)

2) It should not be possible for people to buy raid gear from the auction house, in other words all gear needs to be the GW2 equal of soul bound.#

3) I think we would need 3 types of raid with gear drops for each, entry level, medium, and advanced (for skilled dedicated raiders) I personally would accept that advanced raiding gear drop stats would make a noticeable difference

4) To make commercial sense to Areanet I would personally accept a one off gem cost for entry to all raids providing it is a moderate cost and reasonably achievable by folks buying gems from the auction house who do not have access to a credit card……suggestion 400/800 gems, or say about 15 gold cost equal

5) PvE gear drops must not give a massive advantage in PvP battles as that is not fair to those who PvP in the main.

I think at this stage of the game it is important Areanet do not fall into the Blizzard trap of making general statements they would never ever do it (examples server merges and Vanilla/BC realms) that today might make commercial sense, but can never be done as it would cause too big a loss of face -:)

Ranlea.8270:

1) The gear stat difference must not be massive (but I think folks would accept an enhancement)

Yep, Ascended gear was so well received, I’m sure ArenaNet should add more tiers…

/sarcasm

Oh the above post of mine is a personal opinion and I accept others may have different views

Elite zones are the best idea, in TSW there are “Lairs” in each zone that have incredibly strong enemies, which are the bastion of whichever enemy dominates that map.

Think about how the karka were quite difficult, if there was more to do in southsun it could be the first of any elite zone.

I think the DE system is GW2’s greatest asset and having more content for it (and more outdoor dungeons, since looting isn’t horrible like in other games in the open world) would play to gw2’s strengths.

I haven’t been in a dungeon in ages (even though i really like the armour) because of the fun i’ve been having in the open dungeons/jp etc :p

DEs that will kill a disorganised group just need to be more common at the end of chains, so that only the best can fully clear a zone.

Erasculio.2914:

Ranlea.8270:

1) The gear stat difference must not be massive (but I think folks would accept an enhancement)

Yep, Ascended gear was so well received, I’m sure ArenaNet should add more tiers…

/sarcasm

Hate to burst your bubble but there WILL be more tiers of gear in the future. Maybe not this year but it will happen. What they said pre-launch doesn’t matter anymore.

Chorel.1720:

Erasculio.2914:

Ranlea.8270:

1) The gear stat difference must not be massive (but I think folks would accept an enhancement)

Yep, Ascended gear was so well received, I’m sure ArenaNet should add more tiers…

/sarcasm

Hate to burst your bubble but there WILL be more tiers of gear in the future. Maybe not this year but it will happen. What they said pre-launch doesn’t matter anymore.

Irrelevant. The poster I was quoting was talking about how people would be willing to accept a new tier of gear as if it were nothing. Ascended gear proved him wrong.

Erasculio.2914:

Chorel.1720:

Erasculio.2914:

Ranlea.8270:

1) The gear stat difference must not be massive (but I think folks would accept an enhancement)

Yep, Ascended gear was so well received, I’m sure ArenaNet should add more tiers…

/sarcasm

Hate to burst your bubble but there WILL be more tiers of gear in the future. Maybe not this year but it will happen. What they said pre-launch doesn’t matter anymore.

Irrelevant. The poster I was quoting was talking about how people would be willing to accept a new tier of gear as if it were nothing. Ascended gear proved him wrong.

No problem in you having a separate view…..

But a question……does ascended gear offer advantages outside pure PvE ?

Im pretty sure they will add a 8-12 man UW or FoW style dungeons into the game but they wont be classed as raids they will be elite zones which I would be so happy to see

Danno.5269:

I want raids, but only for WvW. Also an improved/fixed party system.

this…

I know that commanders can see squads, but we don’t….

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

If they created raid content, I’d personally quit at the first mention of it. No offense.

i wont miss you.

Actually, I think the better approach (which some have suggested before) is a map-wide multi-event quest that requires a large number of people to do stuff all over the map.

Imagine this:

Elder Dragon X has appeared over a random map (eg. Brisban Wildlands)!

Events start spawning over the map:
“Kill dragon minions.”
“Take control of supply points.”
“Collect supply and build some grappling ballistas.”
“Fire grappling ballistas as dragon passes by overhead.”
“The dragon has been dragged down! Attack it for some damage before it gets up again!”

etc. etc.

The amount of sub-events that spawn over the map can be dynamically scaled according how many players are on the map.

Eventually when all the events are completed, the dragon is defeated and everyone who did anything gets a nice reward. Possibly the reward is scaled according to:\
The more people who participated, the better the reward for everyone.
The faster the objectives were completed, the better the reward.

So organised guild groups have an incentive to get together to complete such content.

John Widdin.9618:

They need to get dungeons, and the Dragons right first.

I’m willing to bet dungeons will always remain 5 man, and all larger scale stuff will be open world.

This.

Dungeons are very problematic and buggy. Combat spaces are often tight and camera-spasm inducing and negate the entire dodge mechanic or positioning as gameplay. Trash mobs are boring, unrewarding damage sponges so avoiding them is the highest priority (and often harder than the actual boss fights).

Dragons are poorly implemented and in some cases poorly designed bore-fests. Whose idea was it to have players target the dragons stupid paws and face?! Really? Why are they so massively scripted and repetitive? No change in behavior from appearance to appearance.

And, no worthwhile rewards in either without being a Magic Find leech.

i would love to see raids in GW2 but not with gear rewards, right now it feels like there is no “end game”

ATTHWSM.7840:

Dont front like people are REALLY willing to play for skins all day lol….

We did that for years in GW.

I think GW2 could use some of the ‘epicness’ that raids could bring. Raids are just dungeons allowing 10+ people so I dont understand why people are so against them! I can imagine 15 people going into this deep cave complex, having to fight mobs and complete puzzles and challenges such as standing on certain pressure pads before facing a multi-skilled giant cave troll who collapses parts of his cave as the fight progresses.

Yeh, my imagination isnt what it should be! Point im making is you could create all sorts of different puzzles based on the fact you have a large number of players and the fights themselves could be interesting and rewarding, without giving advantage to anyone.

Oh and FYI there doesnt need to be any new tiers introduced to GW2 as we have the infusion system now.

As iv said before, raids could only work for multiple groups of five to run a path each, with larger encounters bringing the groups together at certain points.

Considering Anet is against speed runs and wants trash to be exciting enough to be worth it, it would be hard to keep it from a zerg fest for most of the dungeon.

Larg group focused instanced tower defense that scells up like the fractals. With use of sige equipment and such . Bam

Please no. One of the nicest things about GW2 is that there are no raids.