I think there is a problem with "DR"

I think there is a problem with "DR"

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Posted by: nethykins.7986

nethykins.7986

If it’s not working, then remove it…at least until you test it continually (and i seriously emphasise the testing part) and can say its working as intended, because it’s only having a detrimental effect on the ordinary player.

Orb’s of power seemed to not be working as intended, because of a number of reasons (Both technically and when the orb feature was in the midst of real players and unfortunately hackers).
So they took it out.

We’ve heard DR has quite a complex method of calculating when it should kick in. We’ve also seen has effected chests (I’m sure it was meant to/has been all along -but surprise, surprise! MF doesn’t effect chests, so we’re all boned on that one). It’s evident that since its introduction, it’s not working as well as it had been planned.

So why is there a huge broken feature in game, that’s seems (from a player’s point of view) way too complex to iron out bugs for the majority of players, and not working as intended?

Side question: How the hell would one exploit dragon’s for DR to even be added to chests? Does that mean the dragon timer site is an aid to exploits?

(edited by nethykins.7986)

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Posted by: Rhaps.8540

Rhaps.8540

I was always under the impression it was a band-aid solution to botting. But now they’re winning that war with better detection systems etc etc. why is this ugly bit of code still around?

I’m starting to suspect it’s less to do with bots now and more to do with their gem revenue. After all, the more loot/gold we make out there playing the game the less real money people will spend buying gold from them via gems.

Seafarer’s Rest – Guild Leader The Deamon Army [TDA]

(edited by Rhaps.8540)

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Posted by: Horrorscope.7632

Horrorscope.7632

DR or DRM no matter. Hurts the legit player.

Why no DR Icon to alert us legit players when we’ve farmed something too much, so we can go somewhere else to have fun? Everything vast and mysterious with too many mechanics. I feel I’ve done nothing wrong to deserve such things and perhaps I’m not being penalized, but I, I just don’t know, see Vast and Mysterious. This should not be my problem.

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Posted by: Wayland.3528

Wayland.3528

I think it is a problem. They updated it, but no way could account for all the possibilities of how DR works.

I have been hit with a lot of DR. Run through some dungeons, do some DEs then switch over to another char to do Teq and bam DR-nochest.

Run all over Orr. Log in the next day kill Claw, hit the Grawl tunnel…. barely anything drops. WP to Sparkfly and the same thing. Finally entered a dungeon and seemed to get better. But beyond the lack of drops, I had 11 straight white equipment drops between the two zones and that was with sparse loot at that.

I don’t even think they know quite how the DR code works, or if they do they should be a little more forthcoming.

A DR icon or something would be nice to let you know stop wasting your time, you have hit whatever imaginary wall we decided to put in place.

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Posted by: nethykins.7986

nethykins.7986

What I’m feeling now is that DR is just a glorified “stamina” system as implemented by a large sector of the Korean action-based MMO types.

There I thought GW2 was trying not to be the average MMO…it’s worse. They’re trying and mirror annoying features from other MMOs.

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Posted by: Raine.1394

Raine.1394

In their statement on DR they said that it is not designed to affect legit players, but we all know it does. This is one reason we will never see a status indicator that we are now playing under DR. That light would be on often and all the legit players would be on the forums complaining even more than they do now.

Consciously choosing to make the game unrewarding is a bad design decision. It’s fairly common to see those bad decisions. One well known arpg decided that the environmental destructibles were problematic in that players were breaking them to loot gold. Right, they are archetypal in that game for that very reason.. They left them in the game but removed the gold. The salt in the wound was that they would increase your repair bill, but offered no reward. Silliness.

The lesson is that it’s a bad idea to make your game unrewarding for legit players. Reward is one of the reasons we play games.

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Posted by: Meglobob.8620

Meglobob.8620

I would like to see a simple icon, which comes on when your under the influence of DR too.

The DR should go away when you go to a different area of the zone or another zone/instance entirely but obviously come back if you return to the farming area in a certain time. Currently players have no way of knowing wether this is true or not.

Also, its players who let Anet know about, ‘bugs’ in the game, because this is a hidden/shadey game mechanic there is no way, we the players can tell if its bugged or not. We ,the players, already know that there have already been lots of bugs in the game which would still be bugged if the player base hadn’t actively created loads of threads to alert Anet to those bugs.

If Anet are concerned about players knowing the exact mechanics of DR, make those effects random by a certain time ie…6-18 hours or whatever…

Currently, any time a player gets bad drops they are going to blame DR, even when it might be just pure bad luck, then have a negative attitude to Anet/GW2.

I am not against DR to stop bots but give normal players the means of avoiding it/knowing about it…

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Posted by: nethykins.7986

nethykins.7986

I am not against DR to stop bots but give normal players the means of avoiding it/knowing about it…

The thing is, it doesn’t stop bots.

In context:

  • Bot farms -> DR hits -> Bot continues farming -> DR hits harder -> Bot continues farming
  • Player farms -> DR hits -> Player finds another place to farm -> DR hits harder -> Player gives up on playing.

It’s been said by Anet in a recent post (I cant remember which) that the reason why it’s happening to dragon-chests is to curb exploits. I can imagine thats the whole reason for its addition to the game.

At the same time, “to curb exploits” is the blanket statement and overall phrase of the day/week/month when they add something in that will be at a disadvantage to normal players.

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Posted by: Zonkster.3589

Zonkster.3589

Arenanet is in DR (Deep Refusal) about DR.

They refuse to believe it’s broken, refuse to believe it would never work as intended and refuse to remove it.

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Posted by: Jezath.7395

Jezath.7395

some sign that you are under its effects would be really good i totally agree with that, a little icon or something as you say.. I really hope that the reason they are not adding a notification is to prevent it being easy for botters to know they have DR and take action.

Tis not what they can do for you
Tis only what you can do for all

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Posted by: Kilrain Daggerspine.6843

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843

The only problem with the DR system, is that it exists.. It has no place in a gameworld, the entire point of mmos is the ability to do what you want when you want, the DR goes directly against this as it starts punishing you if you do what you want to do, for to long.

The whole arguement anet makes that they need it to stop exploiters, is complete and utter bullkitten, Mmos have been around for well over a decade, and they have survived without these kinda LAZY systems, If something is exploitable you fix the exploit, you don’t try to fix the bloody players!

Infact the few games that have tried anything similar have suffered over time.

If the system is to exist it does infact need a indicator that quantifies what it does and to what degree it does it, but even then the system brings ABSOLUTELY nothing positive to the game experience, it detracts from it.

I would also like to share this:

“Inflation controls could create a more sound economy in the long run, but they would also go against the primary purpose of a video game — fun. To limit the amount of money obtainable in Guild Wars 2, strict inflation controls would have to diminish the volume of rewards players can seek out. Just imagine an MMORPG in which enemies rarely drop valuable items and don’t drop money or “vendor trash” — useless items that can be sold to non-playable characters (NPCs). Players would — very reasonably — get fed up and quit as the experience fails to be quantifiably worthwhile.”

John smith said this, then again isnt this exactly what DR is? a inflation control.. at the very least it has the same negative effects on the playerbase as inflation control would have, people feel unrewarded.. atleast I know I do.

(edited by Kilrain Daggerspine.6843)

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Posted by: Nova.8021

Nova.8021

I am glad I found this thread as I have been hit by DR for first time last night and I am thoroughly upset that it is affecting a legitimate player as myself. I thought I could farm CoF 4 or 5 times for the money, but when I went on my thief to level him I suddenly saw a reduction of 95 percent of everything from doing an event so I had to axe that idea and go to bed.

I woke up and did my daily routine and when I get on the kitten thing is still in effect? Wtf is this? What band of chimpanzees thought it was a good idea to leave this code in effect after the bots that were abusing farming are gone? I can not play my characters for quite sometime now and it is starting to make sense why the tier 6 materials and precursor items are so out of whack. It is amazing to me that Anet talked about high precursor prices, but they refuse to treat one of the most obvious of contributing factors. I would be laughing right now at this whole thing if I wasn’t so frustrated at it.

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Posted by: plasmacutter.2709

plasmacutter.2709

some sign that you are under its effects would be really good i totally agree with that, a little icon or something as you say.. I really hope that the reason they are not adding a notification is to prevent it being easy for botters to know they have DR and take action.

The botters don’t need to know.

If you reduce the performance of one bot, they’ll just parallelize to 100 bots to make up for it.

Bots don’t get bored. Bots don’t get frustrated. Bots don’t stop playing.

Real, legitimate, human players do.

If killing dragons is an “exploit”, btw, it’s up to ANET to re-design the encounters. They should not destroy the reward system.

For the record, I stopped doing dragons when the chests stopped dropping enough to cover the waypoint cost.

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Posted by: morrolan.9608

morrolan.9608

It’s been said by Anet in a recent post (I cant remember which) that the reason why it’s happening to dragon-chests is to curb exploits. I can imagine thats the whole reason for its addition to the game.

What exploits? So it is is deliberate well thats just a disgraceful response from arenanet.

Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro

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Posted by: Nalora.7964

Nalora.7964

It is “Working as Designed” or WAD.

I just incurred an infraction for asking when my own permanent DR would end.

Hint: They do not care if you have fun or get loot as long as their perfect economy is preserved.

DEMAND Bunny Slippers and a bathrobe!

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Posted by: Kilrain Daggerspine.6843

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843

Excellent point plasmacutter, and completly spot on, stuff like DR has a much greater impact on the average player then it will ever have on people using bots or exploits, they just get more bots, find new exploits, etcetc.. then again more bots does mean more gw2 copies sold, tsktsk.

Another thing that is amusing is that the DR is actually helping bots, sounds crazy right? but with DR the normal player is less inclined to farm, so the prices of these materials that the bots will still farm go up considerably in price, which means bots get more gold per item they find. Which again makes it even more profitable to use bots..

I just don’t see what kind of logic Arena net is following that can possibly make them think theyr dr system makes any sense..

(edited by Kilrain Daggerspine.6843)

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Posted by: Calae.1738

Calae.1738

Loot DR was never meant to stop bots.

Arenanet knows just as well as any other company that people are willing to pay more money to obtain items faster. Loot DR is a system used by Arenanet to generate revenue. Think of it like a knob that they can turn. Turn it one way, and more loot drops but, less neeed to buy gold. Turn it the other way, less loot drops, more need to buy gold. Its tricky to find the right balance because turning the knob too much in either direction has negative consequences.

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Posted by: Jabronee.9465

Jabronee.9465

Loot DR was never meant to stop bots.

And who are the bots i wonder lol! Ever thought of that?

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Posted by: Wayland.3528

Wayland.3528

I am glad I found this thread as I have been hit by DR for first time last night and I am thoroughly upset that it is affecting a legitimate player as myself. I thought I could farm CoF 4 or 5 times for the money, but when I went on my thief to level him I suddenly saw a reduction of 95 percent of everything from doing an event so I had to axe that idea and go to bed.

I woke up and did my daily routine and when I get on the kitten thing is still in effect? Wtf is this? What band of chimpanzees thought it was a good idea to leave this code in effect after the bots that were abusing farming are gone? I can not play my characters for quite sometime now and it is starting to make sense why the tier 6 materials and precursor items are so out of whack. It is amazing to me that Anet talked about high precursor prices, but they refuse to treat one of the most obvious of contributing factors. I would be laughing right now at this whole thing if I wasn’t so frustrated at it.

This was my frustration as well, the DR seemed to hit me hardest when I logged in the next day. You’d think it would be just the opposite.

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Posted by: WarMacheen.7124

WarMacheen.7124

It seems more and more people are coming to the conclusion that others had months ago. DR sucks, and because of it drop rates suck. Anet has no intention of answering the community about either.

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Posted by: Etien.4601

Etien.4601

I don’t want to sound rude but please
REMOVE IT REMOVE IT REMOVE IT!

This is the only thing I truly deeply hate in this game!

Drop Acid Not Bombs (Richie Hawtin)

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Posted by: nethykins.7986

nethykins.7986

Sometimes I wonder whether the programmers’ time would be greatly freed up if they didn’t have to resolve such a big problem such as DR.

Checking the stickied post here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Share-your-data-about-perceived-strange-drop-behavior-here/page/28#post1406891

Shows that the devs are genuinely as baffled as the players.

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Posted by: ADFX.6179

ADFX.6179

The only way you can guard an economy is by controlling it. To do that you go to the real source, you don’t need to place all these arbitrary loot restrictions. What you do is directly manipulate the trading post to ensure you set the prices people pay or sell for. And yes, you can always set prices for players you categorize differently based on detectable behaviors that are far more telling than what they loot… Most would never know it nor find their game play disturbed or limited.

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Posted by: Jabronee.9465

Jabronee.9465

I don’t want to sound rude but please
REMOVE IT REMOVE IT REMOVE IT!

This is the only thing I truly deeply hate in this game!

DR wont be removed. It is here to stay!
But there IS a solution.
Just play the game if you still want to, as im sure you already got your $60 worth of gameplay.
Be patience… its 2013.
Nah im not talking bout further patch/updates or Xpacs.
Got it? I know you’ll figure it out.

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Posted by: Toxyn.9608

Toxyn.9608

I’d like to see both DR and Magic Find removed. I’m a legit (human?) player and I honestly enjoy mindlessly farming for hours IF the drops are decent. I’ve never used a bot, not even in D2. I run into DR every day as part of my normal playstyle, and it sucks.

Magic Find shouldn’t exist in an mmo either. Just have decent, fun drop rates that reward players for playing. Why should I have to wear gear that improves my drop rates yet breaks my normal build? Not fun.

My favorite time farming in Orr was the night of the latest patch when drop rates of T6 mats were actually good. They of course “adjusted” them the next day.

“The fatal flaw in every plan is the assumption that you know more than your enemy.”

Antonius Duarte – Elementalist – Kaineng

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Posted by: Kilrain Daggerspine.6843

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843

I totally agree toxyn, and its more hillarious that they have magic find in a game where you have dr if you farm to long, the two do not mix at all.

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Posted by: Zonzai.2341

Zonzai.2341

I’m starting to suspect it’s less to do with bots now and more to do with their gem revenue. After all, the more loot/gold we make out there playing the game the less real money people will spend buying gold from them via gems.

That is exactly the reason. NCsoft has already stated that the GW2 gem store is “a large portion of it’s revenues.” I have a feeling that ANet is ultimately going to be unable to make both the publishers and players happy in regards to the gem store. They’re already taking a huge PR beating for it.

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Posted by: Firegoth.6427

Firegoth.6427

I’m a big chests kitten, and my biggest gripe with them is that the DR on them seem to reset over 48 hours or even longer.
Since after 24h I still get the same crap loot, but if I don’t touch a single chest for over a week then I even manage to score some exotics and rares much more than the usual. (plenty of alts).

Seems it’s best to kill a dragon once a week and hope for the best

1+1 = potato

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Worst mmo game mechanic ever.

This is the first mmo I’ve ever played in 15 years with diminishing returns. It’s also the first mmo I’ve played that launched with an in-game cash shop. Go figure.

Either remove DR completely, or at the very least provide some sort of notification icon that we are now under the effects of DR and we should log off and stop playing the game we paid for.

I wasn’t aware that anyone bought this game for shiny loots or the ability to farm. If you did, I didn’t see many ads or reviews that suggested this would be a farming game, anyway. That you choose to see it that way is a conclusion you drew, based on past experience with other games. If you bought this game to farm, not much anyone can do about it.

So the question here is this a bug or is this really DR we’re talking about. Because I’m not sure. I tend to get pretty good drops most of the time and I know other people who do as well. And I know people who get really bad drops. That doesn’t sound like DR to me, but more of some sort of bug that needs to be found and fixed.

Yes there is DR in this game, but it doesn’t kick in until you’ve farmed the same area for a couple of hours. If that’s your entire game, and your entire reason for playing this game…well, I don’t know what to say.

I bought the game for other reasons, most of them supported by what I read about the game. Guild Wars 1 had similar issues with making gold. It wasn’t really a farming game, though people could farm in it. Trying to make this game into something it’s not probably isn’t the best way to play it.

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Posted by: Zonzai.2341

Zonzai.2341

Guild Wars 1 had similar issues with making gold.

Not really, not by a long shot. It was very easy to make money in GW1.

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Posted by: nethykins.7986

nethykins.7986

I wasn’t aware that anyone bought this game for shiny loots or the ability to farm. If you did, I didn’t see many ads or reviews that suggested this would be a farming game, anyway.

That’s a bit of a strange statement to make. Surely you buy a game to have fun and gain rewards for doing tasks whether that’s killing a big boss, or spending countless hours farming enough mats to successfully craft an item. I don’t think anyone buys an MMO for an oldschool “Well done, you win game! Thanks for playing.” screen after taking on the final boss.
The correlation for time spent and rewards given shouldn’t dwindle as fast as it does here. If it does, then expect the player’s interest to match that correlation. Also, if you thought that people wouldn’t farm in an MMO, especially one when farming is the only way to getting the legendary and skins to make you look different/cooler than everyone else then I’m not sure you were reading details on the correct game.

If you’re still unaware about this, please check the wiki on dungeon tokens/dungeon gear, and how to get your legendary.

So the question here is this a bug or is this really DR we’re talking about. Because I’m not sure. I tend to get pretty good drops most of the time and I know other people who do as well. And I know people who get really bad drops. That doesn’t sound like DR to me, but more of some sort of bug that needs to be found and fixed.

Well that’s part of the problem, we as players, have. We can’t tell how bad DR is, or if it’s working at all unless it’s pointed out in plain sight. We’ll never be able to tell, yet we’re being asked to give info about “questionable drops” when we know nothing about the system that’s causing those questionable drops.
It’s causing more issues to a majority of the players and should, based of it’s complexity and faltered bot/exploit prevention, be removed until it’s working as intended.

Still, no-one can answer how killing dragons can be considered as exploitative. Server guesting won’t make it an exploit, when you have to contribute to the fight to be eligible for the chest. Also, why is DR effecting chests when MF doesn’t?

I bought the game for other reasons, most of them supported by what I read about the game. —snip--
Trying to make this game into something it’s not probably isn’t the best way to play it.

Well hey, I bought the game because of all the hooplah about it not being like all the other MMO’s. Got it. Played it (still playing it now but a lot less). Watched it as it started progressing into all the other types of MMOs it had talked about not being.

(edited by nethykins.7986)