I want a villain
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How are you so sure you don’t play one?
dramatic music playing on backgound
Last night I came to the realization that for the first time in my 10 years of playing MMOs. I am not excited about the potential story paths that an expansion has to offer. Upon further thinking I found out why I am uninterested; HOT (and gw2 as a whole) has IMO the worst villains ever for an MMO franchise.
The dragons don’t have anything to make them interesting and because anet won’t definitively take them out of the “dragons are a force of nature” category they remain a flat dry and boring part of the story (a rather large part at that).
Please anet at least create some cool champions of mordremoth who have a background and a cunning plot deeper than I must consume then go take a nappy nap.
So what do you guys think? Do you find the dragons to be a good villain in gw2? Why or why not? Is it not a big deal that they are boring? To me the villain is a huge amount of the story and I play mmos in a large part for the story.
Corrupted traherne and perhaps corrupted destiny edge. In any case killing Traherne would be a really good + to HoT
Yes, I was having rough time coming up with examples for that one. Grenth was maybe a bad example. I didn’t pick Abaddon because well, I killed him in GW1 so how powerful was he really? As for the ED’s, yes they are somewhat locally confined while sleeping and when they wake up it might take them decades just to roll out of bed. Also, they where around way before the Human Gods showed up and the last time they awoke didn’t almost ALL of the civilized world at the time perish?
You have to keep in mind that Abaddon was basically just a head and two hands when we fought him. He was far away from his true strength, which is set to be so strong that he defeated 2 others gods at the same time on his own once. It took 3 gods fighting him simultaneously to take him down and that fight created a vast desert out of an ocean that spans over two continents. The ritual we stopped Varesh from finishing would have allowed him to regain more of his strength.
But even in this weakend form he spread his corruption all across the globe (Tomb of the Primeval Kings in Tyria, the Fortune Teller in Cantha and of course Nightfall in Elona), not only much quicker than any of the EDs but also on a much larger scale. Abaddon alone was as much as global threat as the EDs are together. Also unlike the EDs he could influence the Mists, a power no ED has shown to be capable off (Jormag tries by corrupting Havrouns though).
I mean yes the EDs are very powerful and definitely a threat Tyrians have to take care of, but Abaddon was on a whole other level. Lorewise he was by far the most powerful being we have ever faced. I’m not sure if Dhuum or Zhaitan come in second, with Dhuum being in a weakend state too when we fight him, but he was also originally taken down by demi-god and 7 mortal heroes. Zhaitan was weakend too and taken down by weapons specifically designed to kill him.
And yeah, in the end it doesn’t matter for the purpose of your example, but I have the feeling that many of the people who have never played GW1 or payed too much attention to the storyline, often underestimate how powerful Abaddon was. Probably because Anet hyped the EDs so much, many people think they are stronger than any of the gods, but in reality they have shown no sign of that at all so far. An ED could maybe take down a god in a 1vs1 due to their ability to feed on magic, but I actually doubt it. Especially since they can’t travel to the Mists like the gods.
You don’t win friends with salad! Sorry I just got caught up in the rhythm.
Like others I actually like the Elder Dragon dynamic, and the way Anet has implemented it. It has room to change over time, and with the defeat of each dragon.
To start with, we had Zhaitan, and he was seen as an emotionless monster, a force of nature. And that was because, to him, we were merely insects. We were nothing to him, so he had no reason (until the end) to show us any emotion. We were just something to sweep aside or corrupt to help him attain the magical energy he needed. So throughout his story he did not show us much of his personality. And to me that was fine, because this is the first chapter of an epic story against all the Elder Dragons.
As the whole overarching story of Guild Wars 2 unfolds, the dragons will realize that the other races are not all that harmless after all. Now we have defeated Zhaitan, Mordremoth will likely play a more careful and strategic game. And chances are as we get closer to defeating him, he and the other remaining dragons will start to see us as more of a threat and will start looking at and treating us in a very different way compared to Zhaitan. And as we start to become more like equals to the elder dragons, and less like harmless insects, and as we learn more about them in general, more of each dragon’s personality will start to show.
I feel Mordremoth will behave very differently to Zhaitan, because he has now seen what we are capable of. However, he still believes he is a superior being, so his emotions will be more of anger and annoyance. But after his defeat, the other elder dragons will start to sit up and pay more attention to us.
I have a feeling that Primordus will be the last dragon we fight, and he will likely treat us as equals and it will be a very different fight to the previous dragons. Or maybe they will start to work together to get rid of the increasing threat? Who knows.
The dragons are obviously intelligent, they use champions and powerful magic to corrupt and gather more magic to feed on. They have been portrayed as forces of natures, creatures with basic behaviours. But I think there is more to them than that, and as the story progresses we will start to see what the dragons are truly about.
Mordy, given that one of his spheres of influence is Mind, would benefit from insanity whispers.
His minions should be able to understand his mental commands, hence the uncorrupted Sylvari being able to “listen in”, but everyone should suffer adverse effects when he is exerting his mental influence when it commands his minions or just being in its presence. Screen blurring around the edges and suffering from a unique debuff. That sort of thing.
I don’t want a villain, I want several villains of equal stature. The problem is that Tyria has some villains that should be seen as iconic antagonists but are never developed further than a personal story entry or dungeon. Scarlet has been our only supervillain but because she stands alone she is expected to fill everyone’s expectations of what a supervillain should be.
The thing that I don’t understand is that for all the disruption that the Dragons bring to the status quo, that there aren’t supervillains exploit dire situations. The Dragons are certainly apocalyptic but their motives are unknowable. We need villainous figures that can operate as counterbalances to the game’s protagonists. We have Destiny’s Edge and Destiny’s Edge 2.0, but don’t have a group of villains who have the charisma and motivations to be their foils.
The world of Tyria is pretty much split into racial zones. So I fear with HoT, that the Sylvari will be expanded on while the other 4 zones are relatively left untouched until their expansions. There is no reason why the lore of the villains could not be expanded at the same time.
Afterall the perfect time for villains to launch an assault is when there is chaos. Scarlet taught us that much. So while Mordremoth is out poisoning the heart of the Grove, decimating the Pact and sowing general destruction out west… does that mean everything stands still out east? Or what is preventing one area’s villains from migrating to another area, say a rogue Inquest villain enslaving the Dredge in Norn territory, or a Flame Legion villain trying to conquer Sylvari lands. The Molten Alliance, Aetherblades and Toxic Alliance were an attempt to bridge such divides but they disappeared from view.
Who succeeded Gaheron Baelfire in the Flame Legion?
Who succeeded Mai Trin in the Aetherblades?
Who succeeded Caudecus with the Separatists?
Who succeeded Kudu in the Inquest?
What’s to come of the villainous groups featured in heart events like the Sinister Triad, the Renegades, etc…?
Who are the faces of the evil organizations we know are out there? There’s no doubt to who leads the good side, but the evil side lacks clear leadership. There haven’t been any new faces to take over the many mantles left post-Dungeons and season 1.
the only villain i care about is trahearne… please o please let me drive my blade into his heart…. PLEASE!!!!!
Mainly due to her short appearance in the expansion trailer, I expect Faolain to be around causing all sorts of problems. Also as we’ve seen in the past, she has a nasty habit of vanishing when we’ve cornered her. I’m not sure whether id like seeing her return as a villain but it would quite possible after seeing her background along with Caithe’s.
they have left themselves a number of options for who currently can or could be a villain. caithe and faolin, trahearne, any of DE, yes, even rytlock…, plus a whole myriad of other prominent figures already in existance. Then they can go the other way too, just make new ones up with their own stories. I think the later would involve too much work unless they rolled it into the LS updates… so more then likely they would just use existing characters for ease of not having to come up with story and new models to code into the game etc.
Hmm. Let’s see. Anet deploys Scarlett. She is universally hated by the player base, uniting them to defeat her. Sounds like the writers succeeded to me…
Hmm. Let’s see. Anet deploys Scarlett. She is universally hated by the player base, uniting them to defeat her. Sounds like the writers succeeded to me…
…wut?
Defeating her was the linear goal of the whole LS chapter. There was no other possible outcome. How anyone felt about her would have had 0 bearing on the story.
She literally could have been a white lambert cube with no dialogue whatsoever and the game would have largely played the same.
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(edited by Substance E.4852)
Hmm. Let’s see. Anet deploys Scarlett. She is universally hated by the player base, uniting them to defeat her. Sounds like the writers succeeded to me…
I liked Scarlet.
but she wouldn’t stop messing with my stuff.
Last time we had one of those, it was scarlet and everyone hated her…
Not everyone hated her and those that did loved to hate her. I found her psychologically interesting, even though I did kill her eventually.
Zhaitan is or was or will be the force of undeath, there is nothing to stop anet deciding that he can resurrect himself anew and give us a second go at killing him.
For that same reason there is nothing to stop Mordremoth reviving or reincarnating Scarlett later. Perhaps she can invade LA on a yearly basis from now on?
It’s a joke, I don’t mean anet should reincarnate her… kitten , where’s my weedkiller?…
Scarlet suffered from most of the same narrative issues as the dragons, not to mention her motivation turned out to be one of said dragons. She also had the rather sue-ish tendency to always accomplish her goals without a hitch even though we ‘won’ the battle of the day.
It wasn’t until the marionette got blown up in origins of madness that any actual progress was made in her story. Until then it was just ‘hey do these random fights and then watch Scarlet be mysterious’, which got real unsatisfying, real fast.
Scarlets short story was beyond fantastic, the problem was translating her char into game which only worked so well.
Her inital introduction at the Pavillion was great, especially her ominous “threat” to you that it was personal.
From there… it basically fell into “random events were all scarlets doing”.
Her ending and the Origins of Madness to LA finale bit were great.
And the Season 2 little mini story worked well.
But….
Scarlets storyline was put too forcefully into every other plot, instead of being focally its own thing.
A good villian is just that, what they are, they dont need to be responsible for EVERY event that goes on, hell some events SHOULD surprise them.
Villians can have depth too, even in video games, the best ones, are often woven into the game itself.
Their actions in game often speak for their personality and what they are, their presence is iconic when it appears and it should be representative of what kind of personality they are.
Villians have to be personal too, they have to be “your” problem, no matter how fun it might be to make them a threat to the world, the player needs to give a reason to “care”.
That can only happen if the antagonist themselves is in some way or form trouble for the player.
Mordremoth speaking to Sylvari will be an interesting way to show this, if it works, they are going slightly the right way, if not, it might show a lack of imagination from the writing team.
The biggest issue is weaving it into gameplay, but still making it driven enough that the plot and the antagonist “feel” like a problem for “you” to deal with that gives “you” a reward for dealing with it.
Some plots even have you joining, the villian, or inavertly “being” the villian by causing trouble to the world, unleashing terrible evils that you will later come to regret unleashing.
These are things that “need” to be touched on when making an antagonist in video games.
I say pay Marvel the rights and just slap Ultron into the mix.. A-net is missing a Joker, Ultron, Agent Smith, Wesker, Sephiroth. Really we need an intelligent Antagonist to drive the story and mock your efforts at every turn. Prophecies had the Lich lord, Factions had Shiro, Nightfall had Varesh. It wasn’t till Eye of the North that A-net dropped using a intelligent Antagonist which set the story for it’s transition into gw2 with mindless catastrophes and all the broccoli you could eat.
GW2 has a kind of sugar coated taste that I dont like. For example most deaths scenes are simply implied or hilariously animated.
There are no “shocking” moments in the game really. It’s all watered down for kids.
Can we get a scene of something evil actually brutally killing someone for once?
I want blood >:(
MARATHON CIV 5 DIFFICULTY 10 STILL GOING
Scarlets short story was beyond fantastic, the problem was translating her char into game which only worked so well.
The main issue I had with the Scarlett stuff was simply that after the Royal Pavillion her horde arrived at a location, for no apparent purpose, and then did nothing. There was no plan, no attempt to attack towns or positions, they just waited to be attacked.
Then most of the mobs in game are effectively standing around doing nothing until you either get too close or hit one.
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