Guild Wars 2

Decrease base healing, and increase scaling.

Why?
Because as supplementary healing mechanic it should be less useful by all these zerkers who didn’t invest single point into healing power.
It would increase viability of more healing power focused bulids. Currently healing power scales terribly with this finisher (0.2 -> worse than water blast elementalist AA), while having quite high base healing values.

“But this is nerfing healing I supposed to heal myself”
Yes. That why every class have their own healing skill, but as I stated it is supplementary mechanic, additional to core healing mechanic, so it shouldn’t be as effective for those who not sacrifice a bit for it to be powerful.

“How?
Lets say we begin with 700 healing done for 0 healing power. Lets say exotic primary healing stat set would provide this same healing as it is now (around 1250 HPow if i looked correctly, 1570 Healing)
With this we have enough data to equate scaling parameter, that would be 0.7.
Now ascended, runes, and other stuff would be “scaling benefit” for people who invested more.

For clear info it is 700 base and 0.7 healing power scaling, and it would require 886 Healing Power to produce previous effect.

This has the potential to set up a ‘requirement’ for dedicated healers, ie, those who sacrifice all damage to enable their allies to live longer and thus deal more damage (to make up for the damage the support cannot provide)

this in turn sets up a situation where people are forced to sacrifice their preferred playstyle in order to make play in any way possible. That’s not good design and i’m glad GW2 has never crossed that line.

Why i would like the healing power stat to be more useful and rewarding to those who choose to invest in it, i don’t think that this suggestion is a step in that direction.

Narrrz.7532:

This has the potential to set up a ‘requirement’ for dedicated healers, ie, those who sacrifice all damage to enable their allies to live longer and thus deal more damage (to make up for the damage the support cannot provide)

this in turn sets up a situation where people are forced to sacrifice their preferred playstyle in order to make play in any way possible. That’s not good design and i’m glad GW2 has never crossed that line.

Why i would like the healing power stat to be more useful and rewarding to those who choose to invest in it, i don’t think that this suggestion is a step in that direction.

I dont think it would really make a dedicated healer required, as you still have your own healing skill, and if that is not enough either get better at not taking/mitigating dmg, or invest in some healing power. And it would make those that actually does invest in healing power usefull.

Also on the same a note a leap finisher in water should give considerable more healing than a blast which currently would require a rather high investment in HealingPower to get, as the base for leap is actually lower than blast (leap 1300 vs blast 1320 base, though leap got 0.5 scaling vs blast 0.2)

Imo any slot 6 (ie your main healing skill) should have relatively high base, so you can use those to sustain yourself, as long as you play smart, any healing on skills other than slot 6 as well as finisher healing should have a lower base, but scale a lot better on healing power

you know what… im ok with this!

The only place where we really use water field is in WvW and seriously the need for a dedicated healer in there would be nice. Don’t get me wrong, you shouldn’t need one for pugs zerg. But it would be nice that one of the meta for zerg fight was an healer or maybe some hybrid ele with some healing power.

As long as they don’t make it so powerful that it’s mandatory, but I think we are so far from that right now. We have wiggle room to improve the importance of healer a bit.

Thaddeus.4891:

The only place where we really use water field is in WvW and seriously the need for a dedicated healer in there would be nice. Don’t get me wrong, you shouldn’t need one for pugs zerg. But it would be nice that one of the meta for zerg fight was an healer or maybe some hybrid ele with some healing power.

As long as they don’t make it so powerful that it’s mandatory, but I think we are so far from that right now. We have wiggle room to improve the importance of healer a bit.

Melee teqs use them…

NiBlack.3149:

Decrease base healing, and increase scaling.

Why?
Because as supplementary healing mechanic it should be less useful by all these zerkers who didn’t invest single point into healing power.

Reading between the lines, I think the Johanson flagged this up on Ready Up when he said, “we never said we don’t want to have dps, and a tanks and a healer”, in secret code. Subliminally. Aliens.

I email a prayer wishing such to our great flying spaghetti monster.

Yeah, not to mention it will be some very short leaps that go from:

“Hey dude, can you play the healer in this run?” to “Hey dude, can you please play that healer Ele spec with these very specific build choices?”

And if they say no, then they get bounced. Nah.

I don’t like it.

Yes. Lets break one of the few mechanics that ranger does well, with their long lasting water field, so they will be even more unwanted. Not a ranger, but I can at least acknowledge them.

I honestly can’t even understand why anyone would complain about this. Unless they’re a pug wvw player that is always losing to organized groups.

Narrrz.7532:

This has the potential to set up a ‘requirement’ for dedicated healers, ie, those who sacrifice all damage to enable their allies to live longer and thus deal more damage (to make up for the damage the support cannot provide)

this in turn sets up a situation where people are forced to sacrifice their preferred playstyle in order to make play in any way possible. That’s not good design and i’m glad GW2 has never crossed that line.

Why i would like the healing power stat to be more useful and rewarding to those who choose to invest in it, i don’t think that this suggestion is a step in that direction.

as opposed to dedicated healers sacrificing their preferred playstyle and instead being forced to run zerker to be viable?

brently.7946:

Yes. Lets break one of the few mechanics that ranger does well, with their long lasting water field, so they will be even more unwanted. Not a ranger, but I can at least acknowledge them.

I honestly can’t even understand why anyone would complain about this. Unless they’re a pug wvw player that is always losing to organized groups.

That’s more of an Engineer and Ele mechanic, actually…

Larynx.2453:

Narrrz.7532:

This has the potential to set up a ‘requirement’ for dedicated healers, ie, those who sacrifice all damage to enable their allies to live longer and thus deal more damage (to make up for the damage the support cannot provide)

this in turn sets up a situation where people are forced to sacrifice their preferred playstyle in order to make play in any way possible. That’s not good design and i’m glad GW2 has never crossed that line.

Why i would like the healing power stat to be more useful and rewarding to those who choose to invest in it, i don’t think that this suggestion is a step in that direction.

as opposed to dedicated healers sacrificing their preferred playstyle and instead being forced to run zerker to be viable?

^ this.

Yes I know it is not popular demand. Taking privileges from most, and giving boost (not even big one) for very small part of people that would like for healing power to be viable choice.

Did I ever said I want to be dedicated healer?
I loved Healing infused bombs, but hate new first aid kit’s healing blaster (Healing guns are most terrible designs made).
Few times I criticized lack of availability equipment with Major Power, Minor Precision, Minor Defensive stat. Even Zealot is almost impossible to get, and we still have monstrosity that is Magi.

brently.7946:

Yes. Lets break one of the few mechanics that ranger does well, with their long lasting water field, so they will be even more unwanted. Not a ranger, but I can at least acknowledge them.

I honestly can’t even understand why anyone would complain about this. Unless they’re a pug wvw player that is always losing to organized groups.

The only part of that mechanics that ranger does well is providing water field (someone else will do most blasting). And if it is your selling point, then class have way more troubles.
It is bigger nerf to zerker staff elementalists (not like they are not OP or anything), and healing turret/mortar engi, bah even for thieves I would say.

Arkblue.6129:

Larynx.2453:

Narrrz.7532:

This has the potential to set up a ‘requirement’ for dedicated healers, ie, those who sacrifice all damage to enable their allies to live longer and thus deal more damage (to make up for the damage the support cannot provide)

this in turn sets up a situation where people are forced to sacrifice their preferred playstyle in order to make play in any way possible. That’s not good design and i’m glad GW2 has never crossed that line.

Why i would like the healing power stat to be more useful and rewarding to those who choose to invest in it, i don’t think that this suggestion is a step in that direction.

as opposed to dedicated healers sacrificing their preferred playstyle and instead being forced to run zerker to be viable?

^ this.

agreed.

lower base heals, increase scaling. i say for all skills, don’t limit it to just water field blasts

It would be interesting to see how that works out. Less base healing in general may even increase the worth of defensive stats.

Jaxom.7310:

Arkblue.6129:

Larynx.2453:

Narrrz.7532:

This has the potential to set up a ‘requirement’ for dedicated healers, ie, those who sacrifice all damage to enable their allies to live longer and thus deal more damage (to make up for the damage the support cannot provide)

this in turn sets up a situation where people are forced to sacrifice their preferred playstyle in order to make play in any way possible. That’s not good design and i’m glad GW2 has never crossed that line.

Why i would like the healing power stat to be more useful and rewarding to those who choose to invest in it, i don’t think that this suggestion is a step in that direction.

as opposed to dedicated healers sacrificing their preferred playstyle and instead being forced to run zerker to be viable?

^ this.

agreed.

lower base heals, increase scaling. i say for all skills, don’t limit it to just water field blasts

This is so funny to me. That’s like saying:“I want to be a healer in Diablo 3 or CS:GO.”

Notice how both of those games don’t have a holy trinity, hence no dedicated healers. Now take a guess what GW2 doesn’t have.

No one is forcing you to wear zerkers if you want to run a more party support heavy setup. The issue is that it’s just not required and that is based not on stats but how game mechanics work.

I used to love playing a priest in WoW, doesn’t mean I demand GW2 to have dedicated healers. The game is NOT designed around holy trinity.

The influx of players coming from other MMOs not being used to the soft trinity in GW2 (support,control,damage) wanting things changed so they can live in their holy trinity doesn’t help the matter. The game is simply not designed from the very ground up for this setup.

Now if you wanted to discuss GW3 and how anet should return to holy trinity, fine by me. Just accept it is not going to happen in GW2.

EDIT: on topic, water fields are getting used 99% of the time in WvW only. Changing stuff around there will result in 1 thing only (same as in other MMOs):“zerg with most healers wins”. I very much doubt the current WvW crowd will be very pleased.

The effect on PvE would be 0 atm.

blast finisher heals scale with the healing power of the player blasting. so healing builds are even better at blasting than 0healing power builds, its why engi and ele run cele and zerg guardian runs clerics and hammer. why nerf healing and improve scaling, why not just improve healing scaling on class healing mechanics and leave blasts alone.

pve has awful ai and is mad easy, nerfing water fields wont change bad design.

i dont see why you would nerf waterfield blasts.

a group who works together to repeatedly blast waterfields during a fight needs much more coordination and teamplay than having 2 or 3 dedicated healers.

on top of that its also more interesting, because it opens many ways for build diversity independent of gear.

skilled play should be rewarded, not punished.

choovanski.5462:

pve has awful ai and is mad easy, nerfing water fields wont change bad design.

This is also quite true.

Cyninja.2954:

Jaxom.7310:

Arkblue.6129:

Larynx.2453:

Narrrz.7532:

This has the potential to set up a ‘requirement’ for dedicated healers, ie, those who sacrifice all damage to enable their allies to live longer and thus deal more damage (to make up for the damage the support cannot provide)

this in turn sets up a situation where people are forced to sacrifice their preferred playstyle in order to make play in any way possible. That’s not good design and i’m glad GW2 has never crossed that line.

Why i would like the healing power stat to be more useful and rewarding to those who choose to invest in it, i don’t think that this suggestion is a step in that direction.

as opposed to dedicated healers sacrificing their preferred playstyle and instead being forced to run zerker to be viable?

^ this.

agreed.

lower base heals, increase scaling. i say for all skills, don’t limit it to just water field blasts

This is so funny to me. That’s like saying:“I want to be a healer in Diablo 3 or CS:GO.”

Notice how both of those games don’t have a holy trinity, hence no dedicated healers. Now take a guess what GW2 doesn’t have.

No one is forcing you to wear zerkers if you want to run a more party support heavy setup. The issue is that it’s just not required and that is based not on stats but how game mechanics work.

I used to love playing a priest in WoW, doesn’t mean I demand GW2 to have dedicated healers. The game is NOT designed around holy trinity.

The influx of players coming from other MMOs not being used to the soft trinity in GW2 (support,control,damage) wanting things changed so they can live in their holy trinity doesn’t help the matter. The game is simply not designed from the very ground up for this setup.

Now if you wanted to discuss GW3 and how anet should return to holy trinity, fine by me. Just accept it is not going to happen in GW2.

EDIT: on topic, water fields are getting used 99% of the time in WvW only. Changing stuff around there will result in 1 thing only (same as in other MMOs):“zerg with most healers wins”. I very much doubt the current WvW crowd will be very pleased.

The effect on PvE would be 0 atm.

i didn’t say this, i don’t want this. i hated gw1 moments where i didn’t have a monk in the team, so someone had to get kicked or changed. so, u r wrong that we are suggesting this.

i’ll make simple for u.

we have lots of stats in this game that u can spec gear for

power, ferocity, precision, condi dmg, healing pow, vitality, toughness

the current setup for heals, high base values, low coeffs, means that investing 1k pts in healing pow is not efficient. u are better off putting it in almost any other stat, cuz your incr in healing is negligible. but the lost dps is huge

so how can we make it so the stat is actually useful? condi dmg was largely useless in pve for most of the game. so, anet changed up the math a little. and now it has a better role. i think the argument here is to do something similar for healing power.

i dont’ think every1’s #6 should be reduced to the pt of unhelpful, but if someone invests stats to boost healing pow, that should be something they benefit from

so much on healing power and tanky gear being useless.
if anything its too strong, it turns active combat into passive boring gameplay, because you can literally ignore everything and still win.

Jaxom.7310:

Cyninja.2954:

Jaxom.7310:

Arkblue.6129:

Larynx.2453:

Narrrz.7532:

This has the potential to set up a ‘requirement’ for dedicated healers, ie, those who sacrifice all damage to enable their allies to live longer and thus deal more damage (to make up for the damage the support cannot provide)

this in turn sets up a situation where people are forced to sacrifice their preferred playstyle in order to make play in any way possible. That’s not good design and i’m glad GW2 has never crossed that line.

Why i would like the healing power stat to be more useful and rewarding to those who choose to invest in it, i don’t think that this suggestion is a step in that direction.

as opposed to dedicated healers sacrificing their preferred playstyle and instead being forced to run zerker to be viable?

^ this.

agreed.

lower base heals, increase scaling. i say for all skills, don’t limit it to just water field blasts

This is so funny to me. That’s like saying:“I want to be a healer in Diablo 3 or CS:GO.”

Notice how both of those games don’t have a holy trinity, hence no dedicated healers. Now take a guess what GW2 doesn’t have.

No one is forcing you to wear zerkers if you want to run a more party support heavy setup. The issue is that it’s just not required and that is based not on stats but how game mechanics work.

I used to love playing a priest in WoW, doesn’t mean I demand GW2 to have dedicated healers. The game is NOT designed around holy trinity.

The influx of players coming from other MMOs not being used to the soft trinity in GW2 (support,control,damage) wanting things changed so they can live in their holy trinity doesn’t help the matter. The game is simply not designed from the very ground up for this setup.

Now if you wanted to discuss GW3 and how anet should return to holy trinity, fine by me. Just accept it is not going to happen in GW2.

EDIT: on topic, water fields are getting used 99% of the time in WvW only. Changing stuff around there will result in 1 thing only (same as in other MMOs):“zerg with most healers wins”. I very much doubt the current WvW crowd will be very pleased.

The effect on PvE would be 0 atm.

i didn’t say this, i don’t want this. i hated gw1 moments where i didn’t have a monk in the team, so someone had to get kicked or changed. so, u r wrong that we are suggesting this.

i’ll make simple for u.

we have lots of stats in this game that u can spec gear for

power, ferocity, precision, condi dmg, healing pow, vitality, toughness

the current setup for heals, high base values, low coeffs, means that investing 1k pts in healing pow is not efficient. u are better off putting it in almost any other stat, cuz your incr in healing is negligible. but the lost dps is huge

so how can we make it so the stat is actually useful? condi dmg was largely useless in pve for most of the game. so, anet changed up the math a little. and now it has a better role. i think the argument here is to do something similar for healing power.

i dont’ think every1’s #6 should be reduced to the pt of unhelpful, but if someone invests stats to boost healing pow, that should be something they benefit from

I’ll make it even simpler for you. Simply changing some coefficient here and there won’t work.

Why? Because the problem with those stats not being needed is due to the AI in the game.

Proof?

The variety of pvp and wvw specs that use stats that get shuned in pve. Reason? Oponents with a brain.

You want people to bring along more healing gear? Then ask for better AI.

Also, anet didn’t just “change up the math a little”. They basically redid the entire condition damage and damage over time mechanic from the ground up (and still managed to break the game in the process). To even suggest this change was thanks to some tweaking here and there is to insult months of work in balance and rework that anet had to put into the game.

NoTrigger.8396:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM

so much on healing power and tanky gear being useless.
if anything its too strong, it turns active combat into passive boring gameplay, because you can literally ignore everything and still win.

Yeah, but unfortunately the people who want to play that way (with that kind of stats) also demand 10 minute clear times on par with full zerker groups. Some people want not only the cake, but the plate as well.

Everything about this idea is horrible. From the very idea, over your argument and ‘data’ to your proposed implementation.

Some examples?
“That why every class have their own healing skill, but as I stated it is supplementary mechanic, additional to core healing mechanic, so it shouldn’t be as effective for those who not sacrifice a bit for it to be powerful.”
Your definition of core and supplementary is arbitrary. Just because one has a designated button doesn’t make the healing combo any less core. Also “not sacrificing a bit” is a weird definition of sacrificing utility slots and blast finishers for healing instead of damage. Last I checked you could blast for might.

“Because as supplementary healing mechanic it should be less useful by all these zerkers who didn’t invest single point into healing power.”
You are only thinking in terms of stats. That’s too one-dimensional for GW2. There are other resources: Skills slots, finisher-combos and time, and probably many more.
You are sacrificing loads of damage if you a) stop attacking b) drop water fields c) blast them over blasting fire fields. And that is assuming you have surplus blast finishers slotted in the first place, plus assuming you have water fields readily available (brb switching to water attunement, laters damage!).

“It would increase viability of more healing power focused bulids.”
You do know that the finisher heal scales off the healing power of the one blasting and not the one dropping the field, right?
That would leave like 3 classes or so to even fill your ghetto-healer role if you wanna have 1 healer per group. Or do you want to incentivize everyone in the group running healing power in the 1000++ range?

_"Lets say we begin with 700 healing done for 0 healing power. Lets say exotic primary healing stat set would provide this same healing as it is now (around 1250 HPow if i looked correctly, 1570 Healing)"
Looks like I answered my own question here. You want literally everyone who ever blasted a water field to be running around in a healing power > all set. kittening stupid is a big word, but wow, that approach is kinda mindblowing.

“With this we have enough data to equate scaling parameter, that would be 0.7.”
At the risk of sounding like a huge nerd, that kittenty cringeworthy pile of poo has nothing to do with data.

The only thing you showed is that you have literally zero understanding of GW2 mechanics. Out of curiosity, which game mode was this idea even aimed at?

Cyninja.2954:

Yeah, but unfortunately the people who want to play that way (with that kind of stats) also demand 10 minute clear times on par with full zerker groups. Some people want not only the cake, but the plate as well.

One could say the same about zerkers – they want the same healing and defense of people who invest stats in those, while retaining their high dps.

What about making active defenses scale over defensive stats?
Since offensive skills already do that, after all.
That at least would make it so that people using defensive stats have to skillfully play to reap from their stat choice (obviously, some reduction of the efficency of the passive effect of the stat would have to be implemented as well to balance it).

Manuhell.2759:

Cyninja.2954:

Yeah, but unfortunately the people who want to play that way (with that kind of stats) also demand 10 minute clear times on par with full zerker groups. Some people want not only the cake, but the plate as well.

One could say the same about zerkers – they want the same healing and defense of people who invest stats in those, while retaining their high dps.

What about making active defenses scale over defensive stats?
Since offensive skills already do that, after all.
That at least would make it so that people using defensive stats have to skillfully play to reap from their stat choice (obviously, some reduction of the efficency of the passive effect of the stat would have to be implemented as well to balance it).

I’ve have not 1nce seen players demand healing or tank gear to get nerfed.

You are pulling this statement out of no where (to not get more explicid). Most arguments are usually just “nerf zerker so I can use gear xyz”.

Not sure what you mean with active defences sacling with defensive stats. Please elaborate. Should my dodge on zerker gear not make me immune, my reflect only reflect part of the damage? If so, where is the cutoff?

The only result would be, players find the next highest minimum of defensive stats absolutely required, and go rest damage. Hence a new zerker meta is born.

Manuhell.2759:

Cyninja.2954:

Yeah, but unfortunately the people who want to play that way (with that kind of stats) also demand 10 minute clear times on par with full zerker groups. Some people want not only the cake, but the plate as well.

One could say the same about zerkers – they want the same healing and defense of people who invest stats in those, while retaining their high dps.

No zerker with a brain ever wanted the same healing as someone who invested in healing. There is literally zero record of that ever happening.

Manuhell.2759:

Cyninja.2954:

Yeah, but unfortunately the people who want to play that way (with that kind of stats) also demand 10 minute clear times on par with full zerker groups. Some people want not only the cake, but the plate as well.

What about making active defenses scale over defensive stats?
Since offensive skills already do that, after all.

Uhm, in the real GW2, the one on the live servers, that everyone but you seem to be playing skillful active defense is already better than defensive stats. That’s why zerker meta is possible in the first place.

Manuhell.2759:

That at least would make it so that people using defensive stats have to skillfully play to reap from their stat choice (obviously, some reduction of the efficency of the passive effect of the stat would have to be implemented as well to balance it).

… what? As shown by the Arah run ^ you don’t need to play well if you run tanky healing builds. It’s either skill+zerker or AA+healingpower.
If you want both 1000+ healing power AND skill to be mandatory that would singlehandedly kill every single non-cleric/magi build. The consequence: same playstyle as today but runs take five times as long.

I’m starting to think this whole healing power discussion is one huge troll that I’m falling for.

They should make the same they did to warrior healing shouts. Nerf the base healing and increase the scaling.

Conditions had the same treatment last update. Now people with 0 condi dmg do less dmg per stack of condi than before.

Narrrz.7532:

This has the potential to set up a ‘requirement’ for dedicated healers, ie, those who sacrifice all damage to enable their allies to live longer and thus deal more damage (to make up for the damage the support cannot provide)

this in turn sets up a situation where people are forced to sacrifice their preferred playstyle in order to make play in any way possible. That’s not good design and i’m glad GW2 has never crossed that line.

Why i would like the healing power stat to be more useful and rewarding to those who choose to invest in it, i don’t think that this suggestion is a step in that direction.

Not a chance, so long as there is the dodge system, and that system can even be supplemented with higher energy regen and extra evades, there is no way most (or possibly even any) fights are ever going to require a dedicated healer.

Conncept.7638:

Not a chance, so long as there is the dodge system, and that system can even be supplemented with higher energy regen and extra evades, there is no way most (or possibly even any) fights are ever going to require a dedicated healer.

fights probably will require healing. not healing in the sense of dedicated healer, but in the sense of everyone works together to keep everyone alive.

NoTrigger.8396:

Conncept.7638:

Not a chance, so long as there is the dodge system, and that system can even be supplemented with higher energy regen and extra evades, there is no way most (or possibly even any) fights are ever going to require a dedicated healer.

fights probably will require healing. not healing in the sense of dedicated healer, but in the sense of everyone works together to keep everyone alive.

I know, but that’s what he is saying, that if healing is downscaled and becomes more dependent on building for healing power rather than having it innately, fights may then require one person dedicated to healing the party rather than everyone taking care of their own healing, which I think is untrue. So long as we have the dodge system, nobody is required to take enough damage in any fight that a dedicated healer will ever be necessary.

Gawd yeah, I really like this. Healing really needs some tweaks since all the damage went up last patch while damage mitigation stats/builds stayed back.

Would be nice to have

It would be really nice to have something that is needed for something

But it shouldn’t be required or needed

- And the moment this is said, it becomes completely useless.

You either need it, or you don’t. It’s super hard to make “barely need it” because people will just either need it, or not need it and go full berserker again.

NiBlack.3149:

snip

You do know that the blast healing depends on the healing power of the person blasting it, yes?
So someone who invested into healing power already heals more than someone who didn’t.
That’s why I had some zealot trinkets – and yeah, it showed.

Larynx.2453:

Narrrz.7532:

This has the potential to set up a ‘requirement’ for dedicated healers, ie, those who sacrifice all damage to enable their allies to live longer and thus deal more damage (to make up for the damage the support cannot provide)

this in turn sets up a situation where people are forced to sacrifice their preferred playstyle in order to make play in any way possible. That’s not good design and i’m glad GW2 has never crossed that line.

Why i would like the healing power stat to be more useful and rewarding to those who choose to invest in it, i don’t think that this suggestion is a step in that direction.

as opposed to dedicated healers sacrificing their preferred playstyle and instead being forced to run zerker to be viable?

False equivalence. There’s a big difference between being forced by the content and being “forced” by the community.

As a zergburger player, I demand to be able to heal, tank and survive damage as much as a full soldier warr/cleric guardian. I want to have 25k hp, 3k armor, 1500 healing power and be able to heal the entire party whilst doing crazy 100b damage for 40-50k+.
I’m sick of sacrificing defense, of going down in one hit and being forced to play dps while all I want is to melt things and HEAL my party.
Monks in gw1 could spec for damage and heal, could they not? we should be able to customise our bar more.
I hope the rev fixes this problem and FINALLY makes zerk tank viable.

deSade.9437:

As a zergburger player, I demand to be able to heal, tank and survive damage as much as a full soldier warr/cleric guardian. I want to have 25k hp, 3k armor, 1500 healing power and be able to heal the entire party whilst doing crazy 100b damage for 40-50k+.
I’m sick of sacrificing defense, of going down in one hit and being forced to play dps while all I want is to melt things and HEAL my party.
Monks in gw1 could spec for damage and heal, could they not? we should be able to customise our bar more.
I hope the rev fixes this problem and FINALLY makes zerk tank viable.

anet also changed that :P
I also really hope you are not serious of this post……

This needs to happen. it is fair and makes sense. There isnt a point to a support with the way combo fields work.

eeeeeeevery zerker gets kitten about a nerf to their precious meta. it is also funny to watch them rage.
Healers/support has been nerfed and nerfed and nerfed, anet clearly hates them. I play a healer/support guardian as my main. i went from 90% boon duration(with food and proper gear) down to 57% after every patch to “balance”. Is sad and I hope they realize their system isn’t working very well.

If any field needed to be nerfed it’s fire fields. Then nobody would really get upset if you overwrite their fire field with a water one :p

I would be in favor of this, for OP’s stated reasons.

I would just point out that you’d need to re-balance, say, engis’ Healing turret. Engis have decent sustain even without healing power now, but they’re not really an overpowered class, and this nerf would hit them harder than most- even solo roam/dueling specs use water field heals.

Placebo Effect.4508:

I would be in favor of this, for OP’s stated reasons.

I would just point out that you’d need to re-balance, say, engis’ Healing turret. Engis have decent sustain even without healing power now, but they’re not really an overpowered class, and this nerf would hit them harder than most- even solo roam/dueling specs use water field heals.

Kinda goes without saying that any changes to fomulas and stuff like that would need to be rebalanced

I disagree with you OP – I feel water fields are fine as they are.

Bawi.9541:

Everything about this idea is horrible. From the very idea, over your argument and ‘data’ to your proposed implementation.

Some examples?
“That why every class have their own healing skill, but as I stated it is supplementary mechanic, additional to core healing mechanic, so it shouldn’t be as effective for those who not sacrifice a bit for it to be powerful.”
Your definition of core and supplementary is arbitrary. Just because one has a designated button doesn’t make the healing combo any less core. Also “not sacrificing a bit” is a weird definition of sacrificing utility slots and blast finishers for healing instead of damage. Last I checked you could blast for might.

“Because as supplementary healing mechanic it should be less useful by all these zerkers who didn’t invest single point into healing power.”
You are only thinking in terms of stats. That’s too one-dimensional for GW2. There are other resources: Skills slots, finisher-combos and time, and probably many more.
You are sacrificing loads of damage if you a) stop attacking b) drop water fields c) blast them over blasting fire fields. And that is assuming you have surplus blast finishers slotted in the first place, plus assuming you have water fields readily available (brb switching to water attunement, laters damage!).

“It would increase viability of more healing power focused bulids.”
You do know that the finisher heal scales off the healing power of the one blasting and not the one dropping the field, right?
That would leave like 3 classes or so to even fill your ghetto-healer role if you wanna have 1 healer per group. Or do you want to incentivize everyone in the group running healing power in the 1000++ range?

_"Lets say we begin with 700 healing done for 0 healing power. Lets say exotic primary healing stat set would provide this same healing as it is now (around 1250 HPow if i looked correctly, 1570 Healing)"
Looks like I answered my own question here. You want literally everyone who ever blasted a water field to be running around in a healing power > all set. kittening stupid is a big word, but wow, that approach is kinda mindblowing.

“With this we have enough data to equate scaling parameter, that would be 0.7.”
At the risk of sounding like a huge nerd, that kittenty cringeworthy pile of poo has nothing to do with data.

The only thing you showed is that you have literally zero understanding of GW2 mechanics. Out of curiosity, which game mode was this idea even aimed at?

Also pretty much what the above poster said.

Cyninja.2954:

I’ve have not 1nce seen players demand healing or tank gear to get nerfed.

You are pulling this statement out of no where (to not get more explicid). Most arguments are usually just “nerf zerker so I can use gear xyz”.

But you are indeed opposed in a change that would make healing power scale better, at the cost of a worse base healing.
Because you feel entitled to have good healing skills and defensive skills (without investing in healing and defensive stats) while retaining your dps.

Cyninja.2954:

Not sure what you mean with active defences sacling with defensive stats. Please elaborate. Should my dodge on zerker gear not make me immune, my reflect only reflect part of the damage? If so, where is the cutoff?

I would rather tie endurance regeneration to a defensive stat (toughness, for example) and some skill effects to other. Like, make endure pain absorb vitality*X damage, or something like that.
So that they end up having active uses, unlike now. And by being active, they can also have skillful uses.

Cyninja.2954:

The only result would be, players find the next highest minimum of defensive stats absolutely required, and go rest damage. Hence a new zerker meta is born.

See, i don’t care a bit about the meta. A meta will always be there, after all.
But i would like to see less disparity in the stats, at least as long as gear provides them in equal numbers.
What’s the point of stats like healing power, if it scales badly on purpose, it has to compete with stats that scale far better and it is given in the same quantity of them?
Opportunity costs dictate to get other stats instead, then.
Why bother with defensive stats, if the game provides defensive skills that are completely independent from them?
Would you think it would be logical if we had skills that don’t depend from offensive stats but that would still do tons of damage? Well, it wouldn’t make sense, obviously. But the same goes for the active defensive skills we’ve got so far.

Jana.6831:

NiBlack.3149:

snip

You do know that the blast healing depends on the healing power of the person blasting it, yes?
So someone who invested into healing power already heals more than someone who didn’t.
That’s why I had some zealot trinkets – and yeah, it showed.

I didn’t know this. If Jana is correct, the OP’s point is moot.

Bawi.9541:

Uhm, in the real GW2, the one on the live servers, that everyone but you seem to be playing skillful active defense is already better than defensive stats. That’s why zerker meta is possible in the first place.

Yeah – that’s the issue. As i said – while offensive stats have active uses (most of the skills) defensive stats have no active uses at all, and even defensive stats are indipendent of defensive stats (unlike offensive skills, that highly depend on offensive stats).
People can be good enough to use offensive stats and still retain a good defense via active means, bypassing the need of defensive stats.
Meanwhile, people using defensive stats that are equally as good see their stat investment denied by their use of active defensive skills and have no means of achieving a good offense.

Bawi.9541:

… what? As shown by the Arah run ^ you don’t need to play well if you run tanky healing builds. It’s either skill+zerker or AA+healingpower.
If you want both 1000+ healing power AND skill to be mandatory that would singlehandedly kill every single non-cleric/magi build. The consequence: same playstyle as today but runs take five times as long.

That arah run is more than an year and half old, with a ton of changes since then (and even some bugs or “balance” changes fixed, like the flame greatsword one). And they still had to use their skills well, it isn’t like they just stayed there autoattacking all the time. Not something anyone would be able to do, basically. And as said by the OP post, healing skills are largely pulled by their base value, rather than by the stat involved.
Beside that, as you said, right now you can’t use your skill with anything other than a zerker. Because the others either scale bad or have just no active uses (and thus can’t be used well by definition).
So, why not just have a way for people to use defensive stats and still display their skills?
Seems fair to me. People using purely defensive stats won’t have good offense. People using purely offensive stats won’t have good defense. And both need to be good to use those stats.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I didn’t know this. If Jana is correct, the OP’s point is moot.

It scales really poorly – that’s the point of the OP.
1320+0.2*Healing Power, to be exact.

This conversation really gets old. There is plenty of power in defensive stats and healing power. Enough to make a space for people who want to use it, IFF the content demanded it.

Nerfing Water fields won’t suddenly make it so I can’t come out of an encounter unscathed or not even having to use a heal at least. All it would do is make coordinated heals that do get used less effective. People would still Yolo with zerk because people want to feel like they’re able to obtain perfection even if they fail.

If you go into fractal 50s already if you have 4 zerks and 1 solid supporty guy like a clerics guard you’ll be able to finish in just about the same amount of time but in a far less stressful way. But, people still don’t do it because they don’t want to.

Change it, or don’t, it won’t affect the nature of the game much at all, it’ll just rustle some jimmies.

Manuhell.2759:

Cyninja.2954:

I’ve have not 1nce seen players demand healing or tank gear to get nerfed.

You are pulling this statement out of no where (to not get more explicid). Most arguments are usually just “nerf zerker so I can use gear xyz”.

But you are indeed opposed in a change that would make healing power scale better, at the cost of a worse base healing.
Because you feel entitled to have good healing skills and defensive skills (without investing in healing and defensive stats) while retaining your dps.

I never said I was opposed to the healing scaling getting changes (while I do believe it would not solve the current situation but instead cause way more new problems under the current game design, but that is a different disscussion). What I said was that I haven’t seen people actively screeming for nerfs to defensive stats while the nerf zerker crowd is very vocal. You putting words in my mouth does not change this fact.

I also do not feel entitled. In a good fractal 50 run I don’t have to heal even once, so my healing skill power is quite moot to me thanks to active defenses and my player skill allows me to go maximum damage.

Manuhell.2759:

Cyninja.2954:

Not sure what you mean with active defences sacling with defensive stats. Please elaborate. Should my dodge on zerker gear not make me immune, my reflect only reflect part of the damage? If so, where is the cutoff?

I would rather tie endurance regeneration to a defensive stat (toughness, for example) and some skill effects to other. Like, make endure pain absorb vitality*X damage, or something like that.
So that they end up having active uses, unlike now. And by being active, they can also have skillful uses.

Sounds good. Let’s do that. How about you write up a detailed idea and submit that. There is a post on how to give good feedback and suggestions at the top of this forum, get the guidlines there and get to work.

I’m sure anets balance team will love for someone to take some workload off of them.

Manuhell.2759:

Cyninja.2954:

The only result would be, players find the next highest minimum of defensive stats absolutely required, and go rest damage. Hence a new zerker meta is born.

See, i don’t care a bit about the meta. A meta will always be there, after all.
But i would like to see less disparity in the stats, at least as long as gear provides them in equal numbers.
What’s the point of stats like healing power, if it scales badly on purpose, it has to compete with stats that scale far better and it is given in the same quantity of them?
Opportunity costs dictate to get other stats instead, then.
Why bother with defensive stats, if the game provides defensive skills that are completely independent from them?
Would you think it would be logical if we had skills that don’t depend from offensive stats but that would still do tons of damage? Well, it wouldn’t make sense, obviously. But the same goes for the active defensive skills we’ve got so far.

Are you talking about pve only? Because what you just wrote is only true for pve and bogus for wvw or pvp.

There are reasons for why + healing power has a low scaling. In part that is due to the fact that toughness and healing power synergise quite well. You can’t just adjust one stat based on a feeling. It would completely throw the other game modes out of balance (pvp and wvw).

What you are looking for is content that requires or demands other stats. Nothing you want or ask for will get made possible by just changing some values of scaling without breaking the game horribly in its current state.

In GW1 anet eventually split skills for pve and pvp. Here they are okay with the fact that certain stats are useless in certain game modes, while others are more sought after. Deal with it.

ITT: OP complains that group healing mechanics are too strong versus dumb AI and bad PVE mob mechanics, wants blanket nerf without actually knowing what he is asking for.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Jana.6831:

NiBlack.3149:

snip

You do know that the blast healing depends on the healing power of the person blasting it, yes?
So someone who invested into healing power already heals more than someone who didn’t.
That’s why I had some zealot trinkets – and yeah, it showed.

I didn’t know this. If Jana is correct, the OP’s point is moot.

It is absolutely correct.

Actually I they made is so it heals 50-70%less this would stop the zerg fest in zerg cause right now it….run though-cleave back line-blast water-then rinse and repeat…its also why the guild I’m in we can chew and and pretty much kill a zerg off cause we don’t use this play style and of we are lucky we will have 15 people going against 30+