Guild Wars 2

I am a pretty hardcore player on many accounts and the one thing that gets to me is the few 0 – 15 starting areas there are. Since playing Beta these have become so boring to me. It would be nice just to have a few other 0 – 15 areas.

Will Cantha ever be brought back?

I think Elona is. We could have new starting area on Elona with a new race even or just ports from hometown to a 0-15 in Elona.

I just want more starting content I guess.

Nah, not going to happen. Too low return of investment for Arenanet.

5 starter areas is 4 more than in some other games.

There’s already five, one for each race, which any race can visit. By the time you’ve done them all you’ll be close to, if not surpassed, level 60.

There are more level 1-15 zones than there are any other level range, apart from max level zones. I strongly doubt they’d add more.

As other people have said GW2 already has a lot of starting areas compared to most other games. Most games I’ve played have 1, or 1 per race where the other races areas are completely inaccessible to you. The most I know of in another game is Elder Scrolls Online which has 3, because it used to be split into 3 factions and then they updated it so you can go anywhere.

But more importantly I don’t see the need for more than 5 level 1-15 areas. You can’t possibly complete them all and still be below level 15. (Even getting 100% completion on one zone should put you above that.)

What is it you like about them? Is it actually the level requirement, or the map design (lack of big meta events, lots of hearts etc.) how they look, the simpler mechanics required to beat enemies?

I highly doubt Anet are going to add more level 1-15 areas unless they add a new race (which seems unlikely to happen any time soon). But they definitely could add new maps with a similar asthetic – for example if we ever do get Cantha and Elona there will probably be maps that act as the outskirts/suburbs of the city and so have more allies and fewer big/extremely dangerous enemies. And they’ve recently brought hearts back too so we might see maps with more hearts and fewer big event chains too.

Ramoth.9064:

Nah, not going to happen. Too low return of investment for Arenanet.

Which is a shame. Due to downlevel (might need a bit more numerical balancing, granted), in theory adding a 1-15 map is no different than adding a lvl80 map.

Carighan.6758:

Ramoth.9064:

Nah, not going to happen. Too low return of investment for Arenanet.

Which is a shame. Due to downlevel (might need a bit more numerical balancing, granted), in theory adding a 1-15 map is no different than adding a lvl80 map.

Not really. If you go straight from a level-appropriate map to a starter map, the starter mobs are definitely clearly tuned to be very easy. Still capable of killing a brand new player who, say, tries to skip instead of killing but doesn’t know where to go and pulls a train into a dead end (um, hypothetically. Not that this has ever happened to me. Ahem.) But compared to even a mid-level mob they have low health and low damage.

Also, no numerical downscaling can balance out the entire specialization mechanic and several additional skills. On top of what a lvl 15-20 character has, a lvl 80 has 18 traits, up to 2 utility slots and an elite slot.

Even if they do add a Cantha or Elona expansion it won’t start you from level 1 in those areas. They’ll all be level 80 content. At least that’s what Anet said.

Vayne.8563:

Even if they do add a Cantha or Elona expansion it won’t start you from level 1 in those areas. They’ll all be level 80 content. At least that’s what Anet said.

Not that any of us know anything about it yet, but that does seem likely.

I hope they do eventually add Cantha and Elona into the game, but if they do it will be an expansion like HoT – not a stand-alone campaign like GW1 had where you can start a new character at level 1 in those maps. Part of the reason they made GW2 was because they found the separate campaign model impractical: it meant every time they made a new release they had to have a new tutorial zone (which was getting more complicated each time) and low level maps. And then they had to make the story work for both new characters starting on that campaign and existing characters.

Danikat.8537:

Vayne.8563:

Even if they do add a Cantha or Elona expansion it won’t start you from level 1 in those areas. They’ll all be level 80 content. At least that’s what Anet said.

Not that any of us know anything about it yet, but that does seem likely.

I hope they do eventually add Cantha and Elona into the game, but if they do it will be an expansion like HoT – not a stand-alone campaign like GW1 had where you can start a new character at level 1 in those maps. Part of the reason they made GW2 was because they found the separate campaign model impractical: it meant every time they made a new release they had to have a new tutorial zone (which was getting more complicated each time) and low level maps. And then they had to make the story work for both new characters starting on that campaign and existing characters.

This was said a long time ago, before launch, that they learned from the first game and didn’t want different starting areas with different games because they didn’t want to divide the player base. They said expansions will be more like Eye of the North, rather than stand alone games.

I took that to mean all expansions will be level 80 content.

Tanner Blackfeather.6509:

Also, no numerical downscaling can balance out the entire specialization mechanic and several additional skills. On top of what a lvl 15-20 character has, a lvl 80 has 18 traits, up to 2 utility slots and an elite slot.

Not to mention the set of max level armour and weapons with three or four attributes and sigils and runes, and of course max level trinkets, you only start getting trinkets at level 20.

I agree with the point that there are enough starter areas. With the continuing addition of maps, the population is getting too spread out. The Daily Event map is a good way to get objectives done on a map that’s often barren. Even f2p players can take advantage of doing the dailies.

I’d love to see some of the mini-bosses reappear in the map fringes. These were extra challenges not needed for map objectives that made a routine grind get exciting for a bit. Remember the golem rampage in Metrica right at the start area ? Or the golem SE of Fire Elemental that powned us ? The scattered wolf dens that would pounce ? The boss in N Brisban NE of Hidden Lake in the now closed cave ?

I think those added spice to the game . .

While not strictly starting content, they gave you something to strive for during an otherwise uneventful map/leveling grind.

Vayne.8563:

Even if they do add a Cantha or Elona expansion it won’t start you from level 1 in those areas. They’ll all be level 80 content. At least that’s what Anet said.

I wouldn’t go by anything said prior to GW2’s launch or even in the first two years. ANet said a lot of things way back when, some of which are still true, some of which are only partially true, some of which turned out to be unsustainable (i.e. no longer true), and some which turned out to be silly.

Mind you, I’d bet that you’re right, that any expansion is going to be L80 only.

In fact, the only reason to add new starter zones would be to support a new race and that’s something that they have said more recently isn’t going to happen. (Great idea that costs nearly as much, if not more, than other expansion ideas.)

What I do want are more opportunities to obtain mid-level materials, maybe high level maps but have say, iron/plat/season/etc. nodes.

I just dont like the way the new maps are all “story” based. Lake Doric for example. Sure it can be level 80 but why cant it have all the POI, Vistas, Hero Points, Renown Hearts. Even if there is a story going on I think it should be an enter-able instance like the rest of GW2 before HoT. I like the fact when I start a human char I can go straight to Ascalon, Then to Caledon etc etc. This should be the same for cantha / elona imo. We should have a few low level areas that are obtainable, Yes you need the expansion but just because you have an expatiation doesnt mean the whole map has to be the story.

I agree with carrolltech on this idea!

Yannir.4132:

5 starter areas is 4 more than in some other games.

Which ones?

Games with several starting areas:

Everquest
Everquest 2
WoW
Vanguard Saga of Heroes
Horizons: Empire of Istaria
Lord of the Rings Online

I do not recall that you could “waypoint” to all starter zones, but you could travel to them and continue levelling up after leaving your starter area.

Everquest and later, EQ2 added starter areas with expansions, new race included, WoW did too I think. EQ2 had a beginner/tutorial island, prior to you going to your race starting area, and later added another one, Halas. VSOH added a new starter/tutorial Island to aid the new player experience.

I don’t expect a new starter zone to be added, I’m just pointing that many games have had many starter zones…

If we get it and I’m sure the game initially planned on tengu and dwarf since those map areas are still blank then they should cram them full of tutorials.

Tutorials for dodging, breakbars, combo fields, and I mean each type of combo field. More detailed information regarding stats and the usage of environmental weapons. Oh and unless I’m wrong dodge jumping is a requirement for SAB 2-3 in regards to collecting all the baubles as I know I had to do it. So toss in a dodge roll tutorial and a tutorial regarding underwater combat and the breathing mask replacing your helm.

Doam.8305:

If we get it and I’m sure the game initially planned on tenth and dwarf since those map areas are still blank then they should cram them full of tutorials.

Tutorials for dodging, breakbars, combo fields, and I mean each type of combo field. More detailed information regarding stats and the usage of environmental weapons. Oh and unless I’m wrong dodge jumping is a requirement for SAB 2-3 in regards to collecting all the baubles as I know I had to do it. So toss in a dodge roll tutorial and a tutorial regarding underwater combat and the breathing mask replacing your helm.

I agree with the above comment – although I believe we only need to teach the distinction between combo field/combo finisher. I find it a tad unfair people have to learn core game mechanics second hand from other players – but maybe that says something about our community!

Regardless, it’s amazing how many new players don’t know what cc or combo fields/finishers are… or even why dodging and stacking can be important. I don’t think a sixth carbon copy starter zone will change much in this regard.

Rikkagin.9472:

I do not recall that you could “waypoint” to all starter zones, but you could travel to them and continue levelling up after leaving your starter area.

I can confirm that this is true. This was a change that came with the free to play version of GW2 so that you and all your friends can make new characters together and start in the same place, regardless of what race you may have chosen. Instead of forcing new players to travel all the way across tyria and higher level zones, you’re given 4 more starting waypoints, at the opening area of each race’s zones (right outside of their respective capital cites) to join your friends. Here’s text from the wiki.

Before level 10, Free accounts have access to a waypoint in every starter area, but cannot access the services in any race’s capital city.

Not certain I’d like this myself, but one idea, would be to incorporate this with a future LS.

Say they planned to make a LS around Elonia or Cantha, they could make up the entire zone 1 map at a time with each LS release. Starting with a 0-15, then 15-25, 25-35, 35-45, kitten, etkittenil they had enough zones. The main problem would be a city, since I don’t think they want to make more cities, so I guess the best solution there would be to do Ebon Hawk style from Fields of Ruin and add to the 0-15 map.

shrug Doubt they would do this, they probably have no reason to do so after all. We do have plenty of starting zones, and free selection of them. So I don’t see it as a big matter. Heck you can get 8 levels just map complete the 6 cities.

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

Not really. If you go straight from a level-appropriate map to a starter map, the starter mobs are definitely clearly tuned to be very easy. Still capable of killing a brand new player who, say, tries to skip instead of killing but doesn’t know where to go and pulls a train into a dead end (um, hypothetically. Not that this has ever happened to me. Ahem.) But compared to even a mid-level mob they have low health and low damage.

I quote myself: “might need a bit more numerical balancing, granted”

Alright?

Carighan.6758:

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

Not really. If you go straight from a level-appropriate map to a starter map, the starter mobs are definitely clearly tuned to be very easy. Still capable of killing a brand new player who, say, tries to skip instead of killing but doesn’t know where to go and pulls a train into a dead end (um, hypothetically. Not that this has ever happened to me. Ahem.) But compared to even a mid-level mob they have low health and low damage.

I quote myself: “might need a bit more numerical balancing, granted”

Alright?

I think Sister Saxifrage has a point. A starter map is tuned to be easy so that players have a challenge when they are a lower level without requiring a level 80 set up. A level 80 character has three spec lines (possibly an elite spec), all of their utilities, every weapon slot unlocked AND an elite skill. A level 1 character has their autoattack and a heal. There isn’t really a possible way of scaling mobs in a level 1-15 zone to provide challenge to a level 80 without murdering a level 1 character. Not with the current scale down system anyway. “Numerical balance” also can’t accommodate AI behaviour, skills, anything that would really give a level 80 challenge without providing a significant challenge to a level 1-15 character. Unless level 1 characters gain immediate access to all skills, weapon slots and specialisation lines, it’s not going to work. Scaledown systems also don’t accommodate for player skill.

So basically, no, creating a level 80 zone is NOT the same as creating a level 1-15 zone, no matter the numerical balance. There are too many differences between a level 80 character and a level 1 character to efficiently give challenge to both without making it too easy for 80 or too hard for level 1-15. So as a whole it’s just easier to make a level 80 zone, considering every character at level 80 will have the same availability of skills and specs, than a level 1-15 zone that has to have a tremendous amount of consideration go into balancing numbers between level appropriate characters and characters that are over-leveled and over-skilled for the area.

castlemanic.3198:

Carighan.6758:

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

Not really. If you go straight from a level-appropriate map to a starter map, the starter mobs are definitely clearly tuned to be very easy. Still capable of killing a brand new player who, say, tries to skip instead of killing but doesn’t know where to go and pulls a train into a dead end (um, hypothetically. Not that this has ever happened to me. Ahem.) But compared to even a mid-level mob they have low health and low damage.

I quote myself: “might need a bit more numerical balancing, granted”

Alright?

I think Sister Saxifrage has a point. A starter map is tuned to be easy so that players have a challenge when they are a lower level without requiring a level 80 set up. A level 80 character has three spec lines (possibly an elite spec), all of their utilities, every weapon slot unlocked AND an elite skill. A level 1 character has their autoattack and a heal. There isn’t really a possible way of scaling mobs in a level 1-15 zone to provide challenge to a level 80 without murdering a level 1 character. Not with the current scale down system anyway. “Numerical balance” also can’t accommodate AI behaviour, skills, anything that would really give a level 80 challenge without providing a significant challenge to a level 1-15 character. Unless level 1 characters gain immediate access to all skills, weapon slots and specialisation lines, it’s not going to work. Scaledown systems also don’t accommodate for player skill.

So basically, no, creating a level 80 zone is NOT the same as creating a level 1-15 zone, no matter the numerical balance. There are too many differences between a level 80 character and a level 1 character to efficiently give challenge to both without making it too easy for 80 or too hard for level 1-15. So as a whole it’s just easier to make a level 80 zone, considering every character at level 80 will have the same availability of skills and specs, than a level 1-15 zone that has to have a tremendous amount of consideration go into balancing numbers between level appropriate characters and characters that are over-leveled and over-skilled for the area.

I saw this first hand recently. I rolled a new character, I wanted to try a necromancer as I hadn’t played one yet. Started out level one and went on the first few missions, then remembered all the level up tomes sitting in the bank so I popped a bunch and shot up to level 60. I was still wearing the level 1 gear, but now I have all the skills of a level 60. The starter content is not balanced for a necromancer running with 4 minion skills, I could barely do any damage before the minions destroyed everything. Now by the numbers I was downscaled to level 1, still had level 1 gear on so that wasn’t tweaking the numbers in my favor. Access to skills that would not otherwise be available at that level, even downscaled made it beyond trivial. Now I understand the starter zones are not exactly challenging at any time. but it points out nicely the headaches of zone balancing at the extreme edge of the scales.

this right here is why i always make a new toon for low lvl areas . i see no need to have 80 lvl toons in a 1 to 15 lvl area of the game . it just makes it more harder for thos trying to lvl up . and progress to the next level of the game areas . case in point for making the area harder for thos lvling up the new champs that was put into the game . get in the way of low lvl toons trying to lvl up . before moving on . like the one champ that is by the lake area some one having to go to the bettlerin area and want to go via the lake way sometimes can have a problem in doing so . and be forced to go back to Scaver Plateau . and go around that way to avoid the boss and boss fights there