Guild Wars 2

Can we get some more elite specs? The model of:

“9 core profession interfaces that serve as the basis models for the elite specializations”

seems pretty okay if we had a bunch of elite specs to choose from. It’s brilliant, actually. but since we only have 1 elite spec per profession, it kind of falls flat. Anet is probably taking detailed notes on how these elite specs are doing, but can they really collect relevant data from just 1 elite spec? My gut tells me we’ll have to wait until the next expansion to see more elite specs, but I hope the next expansion brings at least 2 per profession, so we can really see the benefits of having them as a game feature (in terms of creating build diversity, etc.)

I agree hopefully it will become clearer as we get more elite specs.

I definitely think the model of having mandatory elite spec choice will be pushed once this happens and the current seeming lack of build diversity will become less of an issue.

I’m guessing expansion 2 will be +1 profession heavy, medium, light, and +1 elite spec for each profession.

And no new race.

The next expansion having elite specs is a given, Anet always intended there to be more than one eventually.

If they didn’t intend for us to get more than one elite spec per class, I’d imagine we’d be allowed to put the elite spec trait line in any of the three spots available and not just the bottom one.

Build diversity that survives contact with the players is a myth. Developers can attempt to balance different options until the heat death of the servers, but players drive the meta considerations, and meta specs are always going to be the one believed to perform the best in a given situation. HoT could have had four elite specs per profession and there would still be a best one.

Actual build diversity already exists, it just doesn’t exist in metas. While it would be nice to see more elite specs, I very much doubt ANet is going to be pushing them out in multiples per XPac.

@ DeanBB

It would be nice, but I very much doubt Anet is going to be in a hurry to throw multiple new professions per XPac, either. If nothing else, imagine the flood of, “Three new professions? We should get three new character slots as part of the XPac price!” posts.

I don’t think they can (or should) add new classes because roles are homogenized enough across classes as it is while it would be harder to balance than just having nine. More elite specs on the other hand are good for build diversity. If they had an elite ranger spec that gives Mesmer like teleports for example it would undermine that unique role Mesmer has or if thief got a defense oriented elite spec that obsoletes warrior.

There really doesn’t seem to be much missing that would make new elite specs obvious. and in fact we have too much going on already.

DeanBB.4268:

I’m guessing expansion 2 will be +1 profession heavy, medium, light, and +1 elite spec for each profession.

And no new race.

I wouldn’t go as far as to say they will add new professions. I believe the current professions we have now will be all we will ever have.

However, they will definitely be adding new elite specs for every profession (they plan to have at least 3 per-class), and they are very likely to add a new playable race or two (with one of them being Tengu)

In an AMA they said that elite specs are things that come with expansions. I was sad. No new ones ’til the next expack.

Donari.5237:

In an AMA they said that elite specs are things that come with expansions. I was sad. No new ones ’til the next expack.

Thats false, they said the exact OPPOSITE. They said elite specs are something that doesnt necessarily require an expansion to be released, and that we could see them come along with living story releases

Kayberz.5346:

Donari.5237:

In an AMA they said that elite specs are things that come with expansions. I was sad. No new ones ’til the next expack.

Thats false, they said the exact OPPOSITE. They said elite specs are something that doesnt necessarily require an expansion to be released, and that we could see them come along with living story releases

Actually, your statement is outdated. At first, it was stated that elite specs were not expansion only stuff but, I believe in the AMA, it was stated that they are now expansion only content.

Edit: found the link
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48zlyd/im_mike_obrien_here_with_gw2_dev_team_ama/d0nxtgx?context=10000

i was actually dissapointed with Druid Elite, i was hoping the Ranger’s elite to be more damage-oriented not a healer or at least elusive considering they are Ranger, even Itzel Shadowleaper looks more ‘Ranger’ to me than actual Ranger.

ImTasty.2163:

Kayberz.5346:

Donari.5237:

In an AMA they said that elite specs are things that come with expansions. I was sad. No new ones ’til the next expack.

Thats false, they said the exact OPPOSITE. They said elite specs are something that doesnt necessarily require an expansion to be released, and that we could see them come along with living story releases

Actually, your statement is outdated. At first, it was stated that elite specs were not expansion only stuff but, I believe in the AMA, it was stated that they are now expansion only content.

Edit: found the link
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48zlyd/im_mike_obrien_here_with_gw2_dev_team_ama/d0nxtgx?context=10000

Not to sound pessimistic, but what kind of lifespan does Anet think this game has? It took them 3-4 years to release the first xpac, and the player base isn’t exactly picking up speed. If they plan on releasing new specs every expansion, then I doubt we’ll ever make it to 3 per class

Alex Shatter.7956

Not to sound pessimistic, but what kind of lifespan does Anet think this game has? It took them 3-4 years to release the first xpac, and the player base isn’t exactly picking up speed. If they plan on releasing new specs every expansion, then I doubt we’ll ever make it to 3 per class

Anet’s original plan was the Living World. They released quite a bit of content that way, then changed direction for HoT. So it’s not like they were building an expansion for years.

The reason I think they will add more classes is that Anet’s in a mode to provide content that meets with the approval of the masses, ie, value for the cost of the expansion, and adding professions certainly does that. I think they will “go overboard” on the next expansion to overcompensate for the HoT release and all the backlash it earned. Somewhat like that nice, fat update they just did, delivering much more than was anticipated, even though there were still things they hadn’t fixed yet.

ardhikaizecson.3697:

i was actually dissapointed with Druid Elite, i was hoping the Ranger’s elite to be more damage-oriented not a healer or at least elusive considering they are Ranger, even Itzel Shadowleaper looks more ‘Ranger’ to me than actual Ranger.

That is because Rangers were begging A-net for more supportive ability. Back then, Rangers felt that they were in the same boat as Necromancers, in that they were selfish and offered little to no support that something else could do better. So A-net gave them one of the most supportive elite specs in the game.

Us Rangers will likely be receiving a damage-y elite spec coming up next

There will never be new classes added, revenant was added to fill the gap of the missing 3rd heavy armor profession.
Any concept for a new class will become an elite spec.
Just adding 9 more elite specs is a HUGE amount of work and balancing let alone adding entire new professions with all their elite specs included. Revenant already lacks a lot of the fundamental depth that other classes have, i REALLY doubt anet would be able to come up with a fresh base profession that they could also comfortably expand on with future elite specs whithout severely hampering their design decisions for the other professions elite specs.
Bottom line, we arnt going to get more professions, just exoticly themed elite specs for existing proffesions that essentially are like new proffesions

ImTasty.2163:

Kayberz.5346:

Donari.5237:

In an AMA they said that elite specs are things that come with expansions. I was sad. No new ones ’til the next expack.

Thats false, they said the exact OPPOSITE. They said elite specs are something that doesnt necessarily require an expansion to be released, and that we could see them come along with living story releases

Actually, your statement is outdated. At first, it was stated that elite specs were not expansion only stuff but, I believe in the AMA, it was stated that they are now expansion only content.

Edit: found the link
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48zlyd/im_mike_obrien_here_with_gw2_dev_team_ama/d0nxtgx?context=10000

Thanks for finding that quote. I too thought hurray! They can give us elite specs as they develop them! when they first said they had spent so much effort designing a framework in order to more easily add things later. So that is why I was sad when I saw that line in the AMA and referenced it in my post above.

Razor.9872:

ardhikaizecson.3697:

i was actually dissapointed with Druid Elite, i was hoping the Ranger’s elite to be more damage-oriented not a healer or at least elusive considering they are Ranger, even Itzel Shadowleaper looks more ‘Ranger’ to me than actual Ranger.

That is because Rangers were begging A-net for more supportive ability. Back then, Rangers felt that they were in the same boat as Necromancers, in that they were selfish and offered little to know support that something else could do better. So A-net gave them one of the most supportive elite specs in the game.

Us Rangers will likely be receiving a damage-y elite spec coming up next

I’m actually surprised how some Rangers seemed to forget this. Necros hadn’t forgotten what they asked for (namely melee bruiser-type playstyle). As for a dps build Ranger, there are some options…they may not compete with the current maxed elites but they’re not completely left behind.

Leo G.4501:

Razor.9872:

ardhikaizecson.3697:

i was actually dissapointed with Druid Elite, i was hoping the Ranger’s elite to be more damage-oriented not a healer or at least elusive considering they are Ranger, even Itzel Shadowleaper looks more ‘Ranger’ to me than actual Ranger.

That is because Rangers were begging A-net for more supportive ability. Back then, Rangers felt that they were in the same boat as Necromancers, in that they were selfish and offered little to know support that something else could do better. So A-net gave them one of the most supportive elite specs in the game.

Us Rangers will likely be receiving a damage-y elite spec coming up next

I’m actually surprised how some Rangers seemed to forget this. Necros hadn’t forgotten what they asked for (namely melee bruiser-type playstyle). As for a dps build Ranger, there are some options…they may not compete with the current maxed elites but they’re not completely left behind.

To be fair, you don’t hear many necro players complaining about the reaper…

Kayberz.5346:

There will never be new classes added, revenant was added to fill the gap of the missing 3rd heavy armor profession.
Any concept for a new class will become an elite spec.
Just adding 9 more elite specs is a HUGE amount of work and balancing let alone adding entire new professions with all their elite specs included. Revenant already lacks a lot of the fundamental depth that other classes have, i REALLY doubt anet would be able to come up with a fresh base profession that they could also comfortably expand on with future elite specs whithout severely hampering their design decisions for the other professions elite specs.
Bottom line, we arnt going to get more professions, just exoticly themed elite specs for existing proffesions that essentially are like new proffesions

I wouldn’t say we won’t ever get anymore base professions, ANet may decide to add some one day in the distant future – like if we one day get Cantha or Elona. But I would say that the chances are slim since to keep balance they’d have to add 3, which would mean for each elite that has already been released at that time or released in the future, that’s 3 more elites that would have to be done.

DeanBB.4268:

I’m guessing expansion 2 will be +1 profession heavy, medium, light, and +1 elite spec for each profession.

And no new race.

No new class either. Revnant was a completely unnecessary addition to the game. The mechanics of the Rev could have easily been second elite spec choices for existing classes with very few changes, and the game would have been better for it.

The entire design of elite specs was put in to place to limit the number of variables when balancing new build options. Continually adding new classes adds exponentially new balancing levers and harms rather than helps build diversity and class balance.

The game does not need new classes. It didn’t need five playable races for that matter, but in terms of actual content, a new race would be preferable to a new class, though the best option would be to do neither and in stead focus on more elite specs, armor, and other content.

The MMO idea that “expansion” literally means “start over” is ridiculous. When an expansion requires sheliving an existing character that the player is invested in as a prerequisite for benefitting from new content, the entire concept of “expansion” is diluted.

GW1 did this masterfully as new classes also added build options to existing characters. GW2’s model doesn’t have the same secondary class mechanism as it becomes unwieldy to balance after several releases. What we have in stead are elite specs, and going foward these should be the bulk of new player character options for expansions. Thus players are assured of a wealth of options on existing characters that are as valuable as choosing to roll new ones.

PopeUrban.2578:

The MMO idea that “expansion” literally means “start over” is ridiculous. When an expansion requires sheliving an existing character that the player is invested in as a prerequisite for benefitting from new content, the entire concept of “expansion” is diluted.

In the long run? Having activities, branches and choices that require starting over creates this little facet called “Alts” that, for a new player, gives them the feeling that not only do choices matter but that there is a real purpose to “starting over” or even if rolling up something they didn’t enjoy as much as they had planned there could still be options that they might love but just have to be discovered.

Leo G.4501:

PopeUrban.2578:

The MMO idea that “expansion” literally means “start over” is ridiculous. When an expansion requires sheliving an existing character that the player is invested in as a prerequisite for benefitting from new content, the entire concept of “expansion” is diluted.

In the long run? Having activities, branches and choices that require starting over creates this little facet called “Alts” that, for a new player, gives them the feeling that not only do choices matter but that there is a real purpose to “starting over” or even if rolling up something they didn’t enjoy as much as they had planned there could still be options that they might love but just have to be discovered.

Yes, but a good expansion doesn’t front load the experience to appeal disproportionately to new players at the expense of less content for existing ones.

Focusing on functionality aimed at existing characters creates the same impetus and reward for alts. You still have the opportunity for branching paths… that branch in a place that’s accessible for existing characters. You still have the incentive for people prone to roll alts to do so… because the new class specs offer a way to play a character they may not have otherwise rolled.

When you front load expansion features behind things that require shelving an existing experience to get any use out of at all rather than liberally leveraging existing characters you’re not creating more content in any way. You’re simply putting up barriers for an already invested population to enjoy your hard work, an in the end servicing new players much better that are statistically far less likely to stick around so you can reap the reward of your financial investiture in the game.

MMOs do not need to be built around “keep rolling more characters” moreso than “your character is an important participant in this world, with important things to do”

The effort put in to, say a whole racial storyline for a new race could be much better applied by creating a much more expansive story with more impactful branching paths for existing characters. The effort put in to designing a completely new class could be much better applied by adding new options to existing ones. New players will still derive all the value from it. People that roll alts to experience more branches or build options will still derive all the value from it. The difference is that it is not adding features to the game that literally require the player to step away from a beloved existing character to experience large parts of it.

If the Tengu join the fight, I shouldn’t have to roll a level 1 tengu to get that story, or understand its context. I should be able to have just as high quality an experience with just as much narrative depth by leveraging a character who already has extensive history in the world in the same way I as a player do, and derive benefit from it that fells valuable as progression of narrative or mechanics from it.

Razor.9872:

ardhikaizecson.3697:

i was actually dissapointed with Druid Elite, i was hoping the Ranger’s elite to be more damage-oriented not a healer or at least elusive considering they are Ranger, even Itzel Shadowleaper looks more ‘Ranger’ to me than actual Ranger.

That is because Rangers were begging A-net for more supportive ability. Back then, Rangers felt that they were in the same boat as Necromancers, in that they were selfish and offered little to no support that something else could do better. So A-net gave them one of the most supportive elite specs in the game.

Us Rangers will likely be receiving a damage-y elite spec coming up next

I hope it comes with rifle. And that we’re going after Kralkatorrik in the Crystal Desert. More charr love will always be appreciated.

Druid worked out well for delving into a green leafy jungle.

PopeUrban.2578:

Yes, but a good expansion doesn’t front load the experience to appeal disproportionately to new players at the expense of less content for existing ones.

Focusing on functionality aimed at existing characters creates the same impetus and reward for alts. You still have the opportunity for branching paths… that branch in a place that’s accessible for existing characters. You still have the incentive for people prone to roll alts to do so… because the new class specs offer a way to play a character they may not have otherwise rolled.

When you front load expansion features behind things that require shelving an existing experience to get any use out of at all rather than liberally leveraging existing characters you’re not creating more content in any way. You’re simply putting up barriers for an already invested population to enjoy your hard work, an in the end servicing new players much better that are statistically far less likely to stick around so you can reap the reward of your financial investiture in the game.

MMOs do not need to be built around “keep rolling more characters” moreso than “your character is an important participant in this world, with important things to do”

The effort put in to, say a whole racial storyline for a new race could be much better applied by creating a much more expansive story with more impactful branching paths for existing characters. The effort put in to designing a completely new class could be much better applied by adding new options to existing ones. New players will still derive all the value from it. People that roll alts to experience more branches or build options will still derive all the value from it. The difference is that it is not adding features to the game that literally require the player to step away from a beloved existing character to experience large parts of it.

If the Tengu join the fight, I shouldn’t have to roll a level 1 tengu to get that story, or understand its context. I should be able to have just as high quality an experience with just as much narrative depth by leveraging a character who already has extensive history in the world in the same way I as a player do, and derive benefit from it that fells valuable as progression of narrative or mechanics from it.

Sure, so long as you understand your perspective is merely an opinion not shared by the playerbase at large.

You say these terms such as “front load”, “barrier”, “impactful” and such which all rely on content additions conforming to a specific limitation you define. Ultimately, rolling an alt to experience more of the content introduced in an expansion should feel fun and interesting and not a burden or barrier.

You’re locked into an “or/else” mindset, which is the root of your issues here.

Leo G.4501:

PopeUrban.2578:

Yes, but a good expansion doesn’t front load the experience to appeal disproportionately to new players at the expense of less content for existing ones.

Focusing on functionality aimed at existing characters creates the same impetus and reward for alts. You still have the opportunity for branching paths… that branch in a place that’s accessible for existing characters. You still have the incentive for people prone to roll alts to do so… because the new class specs offer a way to play a character they may not have otherwise rolled.

When you front load expansion features behind things that require shelving an existing experience to get any use out of at all rather than liberally leveraging existing characters you’re not creating more content in any way. You’re simply putting up barriers for an already invested population to enjoy your hard work, an in the end servicing new players much better that are statistically far less likely to stick around so you can reap the reward of your financial investiture in the game.

MMOs do not need to be built around “keep rolling more characters” moreso than “your character is an important participant in this world, with important things to do”

The effort put in to, say a whole racial storyline for a new race could be much better applied by creating a much more expansive story with more impactful branching paths for existing characters. The effort put in to designing a completely new class could be much better applied by adding new options to existing ones. New players will still derive all the value from it. People that roll alts to experience more branches or build options will still derive all the value from it. The difference is that it is not adding features to the game that literally require the player to step away from a beloved existing character to experience large parts of it.

If the Tengu join the fight, I shouldn’t have to roll a level 1 tengu to get that story, or understand its context. I should be able to have just as high quality an experience with just as much narrative depth by leveraging a character who already has extensive history in the world in the same way I as a player do, and derive benefit from it that fells valuable as progression of narrative or mechanics from it.

Sure, so long as you understand your perspective is merely an opinion not shared by the playerbase at large.

You say these terms such as “front load”, “barrier”, “impactful” and such which all rely on content additions conforming to a specific limitation you define. Ultimately, rolling an alt to experience more of the content introduced in an expansion should feel fun and interesting and not a burden or barrier.

You’re locked into an “or/else” mindset, which is the root of your issues here.

It’s not subjective. If you add a new race or class to the game it isn’t my mindset that creates the barrier. It is objectively a barrier. I literally can not experience that content without logging out of an existing character and creating a new one.

I don’t mind having to roll alts. However, given the choice of having the option or the requirement to experience large parts of expansion content I’d rather have the option.

New races and classes are not an option. They’re an imperative. If you want to experience one of a handfull of features on the list of that which are in the thing you just bought, log out of your character. There is in fact less content for your existing characters than if the same man hours were put in to fleshing out narrative and game play systems targeted at existing characters as a function of basic economics.

I’m sure people want to play as Tengu. What i’m saying is that when faced with the very real choice between arenanet spending time on a tengu story, or the same developers spending time on additional armor, voice work, narrative, and mechanics for existing characters, the existing characters seem to me a much higher priority.

MMOs are already by necessity repetitive. It seems foolish to go our of your way to make them more repetitive.

PopeUrban.2578:

It’s not subjective. If you add a new race or class to the game it isn’t my mindset that creates the barrier. It is objectively a barrier. I literally can not experience that content without logging out of an existing character and creating a new one.

It’s subjective because the alternative is kittened.

“The only way to experience Warrior gameplay is if I log out of my Mesmer therefore it’s a ‘barrier’.” The response to that is “Duh”. To experience specific aspects of the game unique to a choice is a given but there is no barrier limiting you from experiencing it, if you so choose. It is your mind creating that barrier.

PopeUrban.2578:

I don’t mind having to roll alts. However, given the choice of having the option or the requirement to experience large parts of expansion content I’d rather have the option.

I’m of the opposite spectrum. When HoT rolled up, I wanted to roll a new character but wasn’t given a desirable payoff for rolling something (not interested in Revenant and have double of each race except Norn). Preference is fine, just understand not everyone shares yours. What you may see as a barrier, others see as an opportunity.

Sure, but I look at it like this.

I would rather be excited to roll a new character because of the sweet new warrior spec, or sweet new L80 sylvari story arc, knowing that people with sylvari warriors actually got a better payoff for investing in their characters that was up front, immediate, and fun, just like I got a better payoff on my human thief, because the effort was spread top down in stead of bottom up.

The alternative, that I am excited to roll an alt because everybody has to roll an alt to do this thing is simply less compelling. it means my existing characters, and everyone’s existing characters just don’t matter as much as brand new ones.

That new content comes at the expense of every established character while only benefiting rerolling. The alternative is that every established characte gets a little more, and more importantly respects rather than invalidates the effort and time spent with that character.

GW1 had this balance down really well. There was a little bit of lead up content for new characters, but the vast majority of each narrative was both profitable and narratively appropriate for existing characters, as well as allowing existing characters to flash back to that tiny chunk of content that served as the expansion’s “intro”

Additionally, a new class in GW1 meant new options for every existing character.

Elite specs are the new classes. Races are a concept only usable at the beginning of the story and for aesthetic purposes. Moving all the effort that would go in to a new racial story in to the real story, and moving all the work that would go in to a new race in to significantly more cosmetic options, armor, animations, and maps to explore for the existing ones really does benefit everyone more.

New players have no basis for comparison. GW2’s early game will still be stellar for them. Existing players will derive a _wealth of content whether they only ever play one character, have a full stable of alts, or are just looking for a reason to roll another one.

I just can’t see the value in adding “reroll required” content when the alternative results in a much grander experience that respects and builds upon the existing game rather than replacing parts of it, requiring players to retread other parts they’re already sick of, and results in yet another alt they’ll get bored of until the next expansion requires them to roll yet another alt, that’s they’ll then get bored of because not enough effort was put in to continuing content for the alts they already have.

PopeUrban.2578:

Sure, but I look at it like this.

I would rather be excited to roll a new character because of the sweet new warrior spec, or sweet new L80 sylvari story arc, knowing that people with sylvari warriors actually got a better payoff for investing in their characters that was up front, immediate, and fun, just like I got a better payoff on my human thief, because the effort was spread top down in stead of bottom up.

The alternative, that I am excited to roll an alt because everybody has to roll an alt to do this thing is simply less compelling. it means my existing characters, and everyone’s existing characters just don’t matter as much as brand new ones.

That new content comes at the expense of every established character while only benefiting rerolling. The alternative is that every established characte gets a little more, and more importantly respects rather than invalidates the effort and time spent with that character.

GW1 had this balance down really well. There was a little bit of lead up content for new characters, but the vast majority of each narrative was both profitable and narratively appropriate for existing characters, as well as allowing existing characters to flash back to that tiny chunk of content that served as the expansion’s “intro”

Additionally, a new class in GW1 meant new options for every existing character.

Elite specs are the new classes. Races are a concept only usable at the beginning of the story and for aesthetic purposes. Moving all the effort that would go in to a new racial story in to the real story, and moving all the work that would go in to a new race in to significantly more cosmetic options, armor, animations, and maps to explore for the existing ones really does benefit everyone more.

New players have no basis for comparison. GW2’s early game will still be stellar for them. Existing players will derive a _wealth of content whether they only ever play one character, have a full stable of alts, or are just looking for a reason to roll another one.

I just can’t see the value in adding “reroll required” content when the alternative results in a much grander experience that respects and builds upon the existing game rather than replacing parts of it, requiring players to retread other parts they’re already sick of, and results in yet another alt they’ll get bored of until the next expansion requires them to roll yet another alt, that’s they’ll then get bored of because not enough effort was put in to continuing content for the alts they already have.

Conversely, some people really really love making alts. I’ve heard of people on accounts who have hit the maximum number of character slots and then ask for more. Yes, they are the extreme, but there are people who would not have any problem whatsoever with having to roll a new character because a new class or race was released. Especially given how easy it is to get a character to level 80 these days.

That’s just it though, doesn’t a system which doesn’t require people to roll perpetual alts seem to have broader and more long lasting utility?

It’s kind of like level caps. In GW2, we don’t have level cap increases or additional gear ranks as time goes on because the entire idea is that our characters are valuable, and that the work we put in to those levels and gear is valuable.

We got the mastry system, which is account wide, and is a great system. It respects the achievements of existing characters, and doesn’t specifically require people to roll alts to get to use the feature.

We also got the first round of elite specs, also a great system. It unilaterally rewards existing characters with new ways to progress, while also creating compelling reasons for players to roll (and insta-80 as you point out) new alts.

Then there’s revnant, which does the complete opposite. It doesn’t value existing effort or achievement, and it doesn’t add a lot to the game.

In a game like, say WoW, where leveling is a large part of the experience, the whole rerolling thing makes sense. The central experience of the game is power progression, not narrative progression. Seeing how a new race with new innate abilities plays out is much closer to the core design of the system.

In GW2, the focus is on ongoing, accessible content for the characters you already have. Seems to me that systems like masteries and elite specs just line up much more closely with that ethos than new races or classes.

It’s all opinions, of course, but I just can’t see how the game is made more fun in the long term by requiring rather than giving the option of rolling a never ending stable of disposable alts with expiration dates.

PopeUrban.2578:

That’s just it though, doesn’t a system which doesn’t require people to roll perpetual alts seem to have broader and more long lasting utility?

It’s kind of like level caps. In GW2, we don’t have level cap increases or additional gear ranks as time goes on because the entire idea is that our characters are valuable, and that the work we put in to those levels and gear is valuable.

We got the mastry system, which is account wide, and is a great system. It respects the achievements of existing characters, and doesn’t specifically require people to roll alts to get to use the feature.

We also got the first round of elite specs, also a great system. It unilaterally rewards existing characters with new ways to progress, while also creating compelling reasons for players to roll (and insta-80 as you point out) new alts.

Then there’s revnant, which does the complete opposite. It doesn’t value existing effort or achievement, and it doesn’t add a lot to the game.

In a game like, say WoW, where leveling is a large part of the experience, the whole rerolling thing makes sense. The central experience of the game is power progression, not narrative progression. Seeing how a new race with new innate abilities plays out is much closer to the core design of the system.

In GW2, the focus is on ongoing, accessible content for the characters you already have. Seems to me that systems like masteries and elite specs just line up much more closely with that ethos than new races or classes.

It’s all opinions, of course, but I just can’t see how the game is made more fun in the long term by requiring rather than giving the option of rolling a never ending stable of disposable alts with expiration dates.

I do feel, that given elites, they shouldn’t add more than maybe 1 new class per weight, 2 at max. Since they’d have to keep the number of elites per class the same, the more new base classes, the more work it is when they go to release new elites (or new classes).

And even then, when it fits the story to do so. Such as if and when they add Cantha and/or Elona.

PopeUrban.2578:

Sure, but I look at it like this.

I would rather be excited to roll a new character because of the sweet new warrior spec, or sweet new L80 sylvari story arc, knowing that people with sylvari warriors actually got a better payoff for investing in their characters that was up front, immediate, and fun, just like I got a better payoff on my human thief, because the effort was spread top down in stead of bottom up.

The alternative, that I am excited to roll an alt because everybody has to roll an alt to do this thing is simply less compelling. it means my existing characters, and everyone’s existing characters just don’t matter as much as brand new ones.

You seemed more concerned about what other people are doing than what you’re doing with those others. However you decide to view added content in expansions, I did preface my original reply with “In the long run”. In the long run, when choices matter and provide more and varied experiences, people will replay more to experience those choices.

The important term in that last sentence though, is “choice”. Emphasis on the context of optional. You don’t have to roll up the newest thing introduced if you don’t want to and doing so to experience it is only a barrier in specific perspectives.

And even then, when it fits the story to do so. Such as if and when they add Cantha and/or Elona.

I think elites should all follow a common thread per expansion after HoT. Like a Thief elite could be a Corsair while a Warrior can be a Buccaneer and the other classes also having pirate lore themes but still have radically different mechanics from each other to maintain class uniqueness. Or martial arts is a great theme like Thief as a Monk, Ranger as a Nak Muay with close quarters DPS and CC through Muay Thai, Elementalist as a Mahoutsukai, etc.

And I’d prefer to have the opportunity to see Tyria from a new perspective, instead of the same character I’ve had from day 1 going through the same linear story of “Orr Story”→“Living Season 1” (I actually missed this one)→“Living Season 2”→“Heart of Thorns”→“Living Season 3”. A new race, with a new story that bypasses Orr and LS 2 and HoT would be excellent for new players, especially if it’s a more self-contained one.

Besides, it’s not like you don’t need to play through the story multiple times to see a bunch of different perspectives already (Or maybe it’s just The Battle of Fort Trinity where none of the three paths are sensible and complete, but together tell a whole story)

But a new race providing a new story for returning/veteran players, and a ‘story shortcut’ to immediately get them up to speed for new players absolutely is worth the developer’s time.