Guild Wars 2

Whats dead is never dead. The game will be remembered legend after 20 years from now.

We will meet again in gw3.

For a dead game it sure has a lot of players….

And is sure being updated frequently

What’s up with these “GW2 is dead” threads popping up from time to time? Guild Wars 2 is far from dead, can you even define the meaning of dead game?

If you don’t enjoy this game anymore, that is fine, but it’s not a synonym for dead.

Ayrilana.1396:

And is sure being updated frequently

Lol at “updated frequently”.

By the way OP, I think you wrote “Wildstar” wrong.

It’s rationalization. “I” don’t like the game, for whatever reason, and “I” want to discourage any of “my” friends from ever playing it by declaring it dead.

Combine that with the “out of sight equals dead” notion that if you don’t see an ad for it, if it’s not always on the front page of whatever MMO news site you frequent, when it’s not one of the first MMOs listed on Twitch, then it’s dead. It’s always “what, people are still playing that, isn’t it dead?”

If I got one gold for every “dead game” thread and post I’d never have to buy a gem card again.

I very rarely ever play the game anymore, but I can’t imagine it will die any time soon. Personally, I just couldn’t give any less of a kitten about the story, and even if I could just breeze through it, I hate the idea of needing to do it to get to newer maps, but hey… I know I’ll eventually get around to it, but I just feel burned out on the game… for the past however many months, and there isn’t much that keeps me interested.

Aldath.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

And is sure being updated frequently

Lol at “updated frequently”.

By the way OP, I think you wrote “Wildstar” wrong.

We get major updates 1-2 times a month with smaller updates in between.

Anet has killed raids that only lasted with HoT because the best gear is dropped though HoT raids.

Its realty on Anet to see what they are going to do with the other game types spvp and wvw and maybe open world pve (set pieces fights are always fun). If they feel they need to keep balancing arone the one shot raids it will spell gw2 death. If they keep updating spvp and wvw and open world pve it should keep going for a time.

Anet has a real problem with working on new things before the old is done / fixed. There a lot of cover over where one game type becomes every thing or a new skill becomes every thing.

Guild Wars 2. Dying since 2012

Rest In Peace Guild Wars 2 (eventually)

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Guild Wars 2. Dying since 2012

Rest In Peace Guild Wars 2 (eventually)

Ripperonis in pepperonis. ;_;7

I wasn’t aware that guild Wars 2 was dead, especially since I’m playing nightly…four hours.

Am I in a fractal or something?

GW2 DEAD?

I must be a Ghost…. I still have 50% of my friendslist playing on a regular basis!

I doubt Gw2 is close to dying even. An expansion is in the works, regullar updates, the introduction of legendary armor… (read expensive ascended with optional stat swap)

As for the person in doubt… No it’s not like the 1st 3 months after release in 2012…

But dead? LOL NO!

If you log in at the wrong time and place, it can seem so. I logged in during the middle of the week and went to several world bosses. I was the only player there. Looked dead as a door nail with the events running. If that was all I did and logged off, I would have figured the game was dead and no one was playing anymore.
But instead I then went to the map where the dailies where running and it was full. Bitterfrost was also populated as was the cursed shore. It all depends on where and when.

I forget what time of day it was, but recently I went into EotM and found a basically empty map with one third unclaimed. I did see one other person from my color out there, but that was it. I wandered around, claimed a few things, gathered a few nodes, shrugged, and moved to a borderlands map.

So yes, anecdotally, there are some dead spots in the game. But not the game as a whole.

If you’re a PVP or WVW player, you have seen the huge decrease in player participation the last year. Assuming that a number of those players play those game modes exclusively, then those people have left the game entirely.

While not dead, those modes are no attracting much in the way of new blood.

Ayrilana.1396:

Aldath.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

And is sure being updated frequently

Lol at “updated frequently”.

By the way OP, I think you wrote “Wildstar” wrong.

We get major updates 1-2 times a month with smaller updates in between.

That’s crap. It’s not enough, it’s not acceptable. Friggen runescape is updated every 2 weeks with sizable content. Gw2 takes 2-3 months to come out with 5 hours of content. Then leaves us in a draught. When ls is over it will be another huge content draught.

Behellagh.1468:

It’s rationalization. “I” don’t like the game, for whatever reason, and “I” want to discourage any of “my” friends from ever playing it by declaring it dead.

Combine that with the “out of sight equals dead” notion that if you don’t see an ad for it, if it’s not always on the front page of whatever MMO news site you frequent, when it’s not one of the first MMOs listed on Twitch, then it’s dead. It’s always “what, people are still playing that, isn’t it dead?”

Maybe instead of attacking the OP, you could consider that, as this is not the only thread recently, what it is that might result in these people thinking the game is dying or dead. You are usually one of the first to jump in and tell someone that what they consider trolling might just be someone innocently playing the game, why so hasty to do the opposite here?
Depending on where you play and at what time you play, the game can feel substantially less populated. I’ve seen nights at 3am where LFG in VB, AB, and TD was empty. No-one doing meta, no HP trains, etc. If someone experiences that sort of thing on a somewhat consistent basis, it would be difficult to fault them for complaining that the Heart of Thorns zones are “dead”.
From another angle, and from personal experience playing late at night (US time zones), there are a surprising number of times when I load into a zone and within minutes am asked by the game if I want to change to another zone, because the map is closing “due to player inactivity”. Now I understand how megaserver works, and I understand that what I have experienced may in fact be a bug, but at the same time, you can’t fault someone else for not knowing that, and it would certainly have the potential to give the “dead game” feel.
Add to all of this that we’re heading into a time in which things slow down in general. We’re in between episodes, and we’re on the latter phase of being in between expansions. It appears, to me, that there are a number of people who are bored. Look at the engi farm in Lake Doric. Proven to be one of the least lucrative things to do, yet people flock to it. People just love to accuse the players of being “lazy”, but when I’ve been there, I’ve found a number of them are chatty and keeping on top of turrets as well as actively doing other things (in other words, not AFK), and other than XP, in my experience, one of the reasons I’ve been told people are there is because “it’s something to do”.
There are plenty of things taking place that might give someone the impression that the game is not doing well when it comes to player activity. Just because someone has that impression doesn’t mean they are right. Equally, you being right doesn’t invalidate their perception of what is going on.

The one to Rule.2593:

Ayrilana.1396:

Aldath.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

And is sure being updated frequently

Lol at “updated frequently”.

By the way OP, I think you wrote “Wildstar” wrong.

We get major updates 1-2 times a month with smaller updates in between.

That’s crap. It’s not enough, it’s not acceptable. Friggen runescape is updated every 2 weeks with sizable content. Gw2 takes 2-3 months to come out with 5 hours of content. Then leaves us in a draught. When ls is over it will be another huge content draught.

They’re not the same which is why there’s a difference. I’m sure a lot of content could be added quickly for the first Legend of Zelda but take much longer for Breath of Wild.

Ayrilana.1396:

The one to Rule.2593:

Ayrilana.1396:

Aldath.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

And is sure being updated frequently

Lol at “updated frequently”.

By the way OP, I think you wrote “Wildstar” wrong.

We get major updates 1-2 times a month with smaller updates in between.

That’s crap. It’s not enough, it’s not acceptable. Friggen runescape is updated every 2 weeks with sizable content. Gw2 takes 2-3 months to come out with 5 hours of content. Then leaves us in a draught. When ls is over it will be another huge content draught.

They’re not the same which is why there’s a difference. I’m sure a lot of content could be added quickly for the first Legend of Zelda but take much longer for Breath of Wild.

Not if your team is the right size and you are run on a monthly sub to afford a bigger team like always should have happened

The one to Rule.2593:

Ayrilana.1396:

The one to Rule.2593:

Ayrilana.1396:

Aldath.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

And is sure being updated frequently

Lol at “updated frequently”.

By the way OP, I think you wrote “Wildstar” wrong.

We get major updates 1-2 times a month with smaller updates in between.

That’s crap. It’s not enough, it’s not acceptable. Friggen runescape is updated every 2 weeks with sizable content. Gw2 takes 2-3 months to come out with 5 hours of content. Then leaves us in a draught. When ls is over it will be another huge content draught.

They’re not the same which is why there’s a difference. I’m sure a lot of content could be added quickly for the first Legend of Zelda but take much longer for Breath of Wild.

Not if your team is the right size and you are run on a monthly sub to afford a bigger team like always should have happened

Again, the games are much different. Increasing the team size in order to increase the frequency of updates further for those that choose to blast through content the first day, and then complain about it, won’t be healthy for the game. Adding a subscription will turn away a lot of players and it certainly wouldn’t attract any.

While I don’t think the game is “dead” I have seen a dramatic drop off lately. My guild usually only wuv wuvs 4 days a week from seven and then only for an hour or so. Guild missions have gone from 40 to 30 man squads down to 6 . There are some hardcore raiders that fracture off into pug groups and that’s about it for visible activity. While this may not be representative of the entire population I hardly think my guild is some sole exception. Depending on what you enjoyed in the game and where you frequently spend your time in the game you’ll no doubt have seen a decline. So is the game dead? naw. But its hardly salad days in this joint either.

So, if GW2 is dead, and still moving around, and eating our brains, is it a zombie?

Guild Wars is dead! Long Live Guild Wars!

I recently removed several alts from the world and have replaced them with suitable facsimiles. I am now working on map exploration for those toons and to level the last one (ran out of tomes). I am seeing more people now running around the zones then I did 3 years ago, and more than at HoT launch.

Not just veterans like me making another alt, but new players who can’t find stuff on the map, or don’t know how to get to places (vistas, POI’s , etc). I get that we play on a megaserver for every map, but there are a lot more people than I have seen in years doing map completion.

Used to be I could run the whole world map and maybe come across a few people doing some events. Now I am running into 2 to 5 people (or more) at every HP, POI, Vista.

Maybe raids are a ghost town (since I’m not doing that atm) or some guilds are suffering a hiatus, but I have seen tons of people on every map from core all the way through DS these past two weeks.

I can’t speak for the competitive parts of the game but PvE seems as active to me as it’s always been. When I make a key runner there’s always several people in the starting instance, no matter what day or time it is. When I’m running around in a map I see others on that map, even mid level maps in the middle of nowhere. I do a meta boss event and there’s hordes of people. The Karka Queen event gives my laptop fits with the number of people there.

If gw2 is dying it’s not doing a very good job.

More of an issue of luck getting on one of the full, active map instances.

I have sat in a “Full” LA once for an hour and only one person spoke and didn’t get a reply.

That is mega servers for you though.

demitel.1340:

What’s up with these “GW2 is dead” threads popping up from time to time? Guild Wars 2 is far from dead, can you even define the meaning of dead game?

If you don’t enjoy this game anymore, that is fine, but it’s not a synonym for dead.

I agree ive never liked the “Dead” word because its incorrect.

I will say that WvW and PvP have taken HUGE dips.

In WvW you see threads get deleted for talking match ups and why certain servers are being linked. I am in CD and no matter what time i play on they other 2 servers have WAY more players. Ill be running with 10 or so players and we run into another server who has 25. The crazy part is pre hot it would be the same but we had 30 players and they would have 50. I think the word dying works in that case.

Also for PvP, you saw players in EU and NA in legendary and the lowest on the leader boards were Plat 2 and Plat 3. S6 you saw players in gold2 and very close to gold 1. For many people Gold 1-3 are the average players.

So once again you see a HUGE drop off. Its pretty easy to see that WvW and PvP have not had the player population.

So i could make a case that those 2 areas are dead especially t3 servers and lower for WvW.

But PvE wise, not even close. There are alot of raid guilds and alot of PvE meta map guilds.

I disagree with the OP though, GW2 core was a amazing game. HOT GW2 was a fail to me. It split the community, heres the thing about GREAT games. They add to whats working for them. For WoW its the grind they embraced it and created the best grind/raiding game out there.

GW2 was suppose to be about skill and playing your way and it was. HOT turned into your generic MMO which is why you see the back lash. Go do 4 hearts daily to collect a sliver to make X back piece. Play X amount of game to create the Legendary PvP back piece.

Even raids are X build based things. You can run 1-2 variations of it but its not skill based.

Which is why if this next expansion falls closer to HOT then Core GW2, GW2 will be looked at like GW1. It will have its small following defend it like a ESO or BDO but wont be considered anything special among the many.

The one to Rule.2593:

Ayrilana.1396:

The one to Rule.2593:

Ayrilana.1396:

Aldath.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

And is sure being updated frequently

Lol at “updated frequently”.

By the way OP, I think you wrote “Wildstar” wrong.

We get major updates 1-2 times a month with smaller updates in between.

That’s crap. It’s not enough, it’s not acceptable. Friggen runescape is updated every 2 weeks with sizable content. Gw2 takes 2-3 months to come out with 5 hours of content. Then leaves us in a draught. When ls is over it will be another huge content draught.

They’re not the same which is why there’s a difference. I’m sure a lot of content could be added quickly for the first Legend of Zelda but take much longer for Breath of Wild.

Not if your team is the right size and you are run on a monthly sub to afford a bigger team like always should have happened

So, the biggest MMO, which charges a sub, has a store and which charges for XPacs should have the biggest staff and should put out content at a pace that puts all other MMO’s to shame, right? Well, that’s not what happened when I was playing it.

Wvw is dead… there is some activity going on, but not what it used to be. Nor does anet care. Pvp is going downhill, nor does anet care. Anet cares bout pve still, and their new baby pve raid.

ImLegion.4018:

Wvw is dead… there is some activity going on, but not what it used to be. Nor does anet care. Pvp is going downhill, nor does anet care. Anet cares bout their new baby pve raid.

Fixed that for you.

Oh yes guild wars 2 is dying suuuure, anet hey lets make an expansion instead of gw3 for a dying mmorpg ok fellas lets do it!

Ryou.2398:

Oh yes guild wars 2 is dying suuuure, anet hey lets make an expansion instead of gw3 for a dying mmorpg ok fellas lets do it!

It takes a lot more money and time to make a new game than it does to make new content. At $60 for the expansion vs $60 for the new game, the RoI is almost guaranteed to be higher.

ANet will keep pumping out expansions for as long as they possibly can. Not to mention this game was supposed to last many years with many content updates, and it’s lost a ton of business from only one expansion so far.

Ayrilana.1396:

The one to Rule.2593:

Ayrilana.1396:

The one to Rule.2593:

Ayrilana.1396:

Aldath.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

And is sure being updated frequently

Lol at “updated frequently”.

By the way OP, I think you wrote “Wildstar” wrong.

We get major updates 1-2 times a month with smaller updates in between.

That’s crap. It’s not enough, it’s not acceptable. Friggen runescape is updated every 2 weeks with sizable content. Gw2 takes 2-3 months to come out with 5 hours of content. Then leaves us in a draught. When ls is over it will be another huge content draught.

They’re not the same which is why there’s a difference. I’m sure a lot of content could be added quickly for the first Legend of Zelda but take much longer for Breath of Wild.

Not if your team is the right size and you are run on a monthly sub to afford a bigger team like always should have happened

Again, the games are much different. Increasing the team size in order to increase the frequency of updates further for those that choose to blast through content the first day, and then complain about it, won’t be healthy for the game. Adding a subscription will turn away a lot of players and it certainly wouldn’t attract any.

Of course not now, but it should have launched with a sub. I’d be more than happy to pay a monthly sum for sizable content updates more frequently. The gemstone just will never be a good substitute.

people who say gw2 is dying have no idea what a dead game looks like.

Ashen.2907:

So, if GW2 is dead, and still moving around, and eating our brains, is it a zombie?

That is GW1 in a nut shell now so maybe at some point.

the game isn’t dead yet xD

DeanBB.4268:

I forget what time of day it was, but recently I went into EotM and found a basically empty map with one third unclaimed. I did see one other person from my color out there, but that was it. I wandered around, claimed a few things, gathered a few nodes, shrugged, and moved to a borderlands map.

So yes, anecdotally, there are some dead spots in the game. But not the game as a whole.

But how many maps where there, and were you on a new map. That’s the issue with comments like it’s dead.

Even world bosses. If you get there on time or a bit late, you’re in the last overflow map. Doesn’t matter that there might be 3 other full maps, because your map is dead.

Unlike WvW, EotM uses the megaserver system. When one map fills another is created. Unless you know it was the only map, you certainly can’t say it wasn’t dead.

I was in a completely dead dragon stand map the other day. I’m sure I was one of the only people on it.

My guildies were all on a full map doing the event. I simply got there late, and I couldn’t get into the main map. There was also another map doing it as well which I couldn’t get into. That’s two full maps. But my map,…dead as a doornail.

OP, are you from the future or what? GW2 is one of the most played MMOs next to WoW, FFXIV and ESO. It’s lightyears away from being dead.

but if gw2 is dead… WHO WAS DOOR?

The one to Rule.2593:

Ayrilana.1396:

The one to Rule.2593:

Ayrilana.1396:

The one to Rule.2593:

Ayrilana.1396:

Aldath.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

And is sure being updated frequently

Lol at “updated frequently”.

By the way OP, I think you wrote “Wildstar” wrong.

We get major updates 1-2 times a month with smaller updates in between.

That’s crap. It’s not enough, it’s not acceptable. Friggen runescape is updated every 2 weeks with sizable content. Gw2 takes 2-3 months to come out with 5 hours of content. Then leaves us in a draught. When ls is over it will be another huge content draught.

They’re not the same which is why there’s a difference. I’m sure a lot of content could be added quickly for the first Legend of Zelda but take much longer for Breath of Wild.

Not if your team is the right size and you are run on a monthly sub to afford a bigger team like always should have happened

Again, the games are much different. Increasing the team size in order to increase the frequency of updates further for those that choose to blast through content the first day, and then complain about it, won’t be healthy for the game. Adding a subscription will turn away a lot of players and it certainly wouldn’t attract any.

Of course not now, but it should have launched with a sub. I’d be more than happy to pay a monthly sum for sizable content updates more frequently. The gemstone just will never be a good substitute.

That’s assuming that the game having a sub would have attracted more players than it has being B2P. Player retention will likely be lower with a monthly fee.

DeceiverX.8361:

Ryou.2398:

Oh yes guild wars 2 is dying suuuure, anet hey lets make an expansion instead of gw3 for a dying mmorpg ok fellas lets do it!

It takes a lot more money and time to make a new game than it does to make new content. At $60 for the expansion vs $60 for the new game, the RoI is almost guaranteed to be higher.

ANet will keep pumping out expansions for as long as they possibly can. Not to mention this game was supposed to last many years with many content updates, and it’s lost a ton of business from only one expansion so far.

I hope you know that was sarcasm about gw2 dying since it is not.

Neural.1824:

Behellagh.1468:

It’s rationalization. “I” don’t like the game, for whatever reason, and “I” want to discourage any of “my” friends from ever playing it by declaring it dead.

Combine that with the “out of sight equals dead” notion that if you don’t see an ad for it, if it’s not always on the front page of whatever MMO news site you frequent, when it’s not one of the first MMOs listed on Twitch, then it’s dead. It’s always “what, people are still playing that, isn’t it dead?”

Maybe instead of attacking the OP, you could consider that, as this is not the only thread recently, what it is that might result in these people thinking the game is dying or dead. You are usually one of the first to jump in and tell someone that what they consider trolling might just be someone innocently playing the game, why so hasty to do the opposite here?

Where did I attack the OP? I’m just stating why some people declare the game is dead when it’s obviously isn’t.

I see it all the time on GW2 Twitch streams, people popping into chat with the “Isn’t this game dead” and when asked why they thought so it’s either a “friend” told them so after the friend stopped playing or that they haven’t seen any recent news or just positive news about the game (sPvP eSports dropped, sales flat or dropping) so they assumed the game is imploding/has imploded.

There were far more players back in the good ol’ days, but it is still active. Especially with an expansion at the end of this year.

I will make it simple for people:

Dead game – Servers shut down.
Dying game – Devs announce the servers are shutting down on XX Date.

Now let’s look at GW1 even – do any of these 2 things apply? No, so as you can see even that game is still alive…

I just don’t get some people lol.

I don’t think that the game is dead at all but I do think that it is slowing down.

Themepark MMO’s need stuff for people to do, but with the slow trickle of new content, people are migrating to other things while waiting for new stuff to come out.

The game needs an injection of content and raids are not the answer I am afraid from a PVE standpoint.

PVP and WvW are pretty much slowing down and dying but not dead. I have no idea how they can make these game modes fresh again but I know that there are tons of people clamoring to see this happen

Paulytnz.7619:

I will make it simple for people:

Dead game – Servers shut down.
Dying game – Devs announce the servers are shutting down on XX Date.

Now let’s look at GW1 even – do any of these 2 things apply? No, so as you can see even that game is still alive…

I just don’t get some people lol.

That you don’t get it is your issue that you can’t cope with subtleties of language, take a bar or nightclub, people will use “this place is dead” not to mean there is literally no one there, but merely that there are relatively few people there, there is no “buzz”, etc.

Same goes for games, so to take WvW as an example in GW2, on EU say 2+ years ago if you were in the T1 matchup you would normally have good activity 12-16 hours a day. If I logged on in say the afternoon in say the FSP/Deso/SFR matchup, commonly all three servers would have blobs (Ravya on FSP, Oblivious on SFR, etc), there were way more guilds, roaming was much more alive, etc.

Fast forward to today, T1/T2 matchups in EU, despite normally being comprised of 5-8 actual servers as opposed to just 3, can be dead most of the time outside prime, even if your server gets a commander and a group going often there is nothing to fight, even in prime one server can be totally absent, the number of guilds has dropped drastically, GvG is well… and roaming has largely been reduced to either duels or ganking people in zerg builds, the amount of actual roaming is laughable.

Hence for many people WvW is “dead”, there may still be players there, but it is basically a shadow of its former self and the level activity has dropped to the point where it is no longer fun to play much of the time, just like a nightclub can be “dead” even if it has a few people in it and the music is still playing.

Stormcrow.7513:

I don’t think that the game is dead at all but I do think that it is slowing down.

Themepark MMO’s need stuff for people to do, but with the slow trickle of new content, people are migrating to other things while waiting for new stuff to come out.

The game needs an injection of content and raids are not the answer I am afraid from a PVE standpoint.

PVP and WvW are pretty much slowing down and dying but not dead. I have no idea how they can make these game modes fresh again but I know that there are tons of people clamoring to see this happen

Tbh for PvP I think this needs to happen:

1-Bring in Deathmatch and Team Deathmatch finally. You want to attract Pvers as well as new plyers who play just for PvP. Well as a Pver I can say when I want to PvP I want to do just that. PvP people, not stand in circles and deal with all the crap which that brings. Get rid of the circles and open the PvP experience up. You wont see every “insert class here” spamming the same skills on those circles all day long. You will not have the “fight on point” yelling all the time either.

Breaking off from group fights and going 1 vs 1 might actually happen more and be a good thing. You will have people move around the maps more and not be focused so much on those 3 points. How can they have people move around tho and not just meet in the middle and stay there until the winners are decided? Well they could do random spawns all over the map. You may spawn and have an enemy near you and the same may be for your team mates. You may win your fight and then a team mate may yell “I can’t handle this guy come to my aid”. Something like that could work.

2 – Now another thing too is the silly nonsense of the “seasons”. Again I say you want to attract both Pvers and new dedicated PvP players. The one thing that turns me off about PvP is that when it is off season you earn less rewards there so you are not as motivated to go there. Now on the flipside of that when it is on season you earn more rewards there so you go. The problem here is you can easily burn yourself out and then just give up and then have to wait all over again until the next season.

Fix this anet! Either remove the season nonsense or have the rewards be worth it be it on/off season or not. You want more players there ALL of the time. This would be healthy for both the Pvers who dabble and the “pure Pvers”.

As for WvW I really don’t know what has changed here. Rewards maybe? I have being playing a bit more there recently and I think I get slightly less rewards now from the level up chests than I used to. Is this because of the new reward tracks? Is this what the issue with WvW is for most people? Or is it because that 1 Desert map is still there? Or even the fact you need to scribe things (which can be costly!) to get to see/play with some of the more cool things? Or is it all the condi spam/nonsense?

I really don’t know of a fix for WvW until I know exactly what people’s issues are with it and how it has changed since the “good old days”.

It all depends on your definition of ‘dead’. Some refer to Wildstar as begin dead, for others Wildstart is still very much alive because dead to them means that the servers must have closed down. For others dead means that you don’t see many people around in the world and activity in your friend-list and / or guild-list has gone down.

Personally I would look at where a game comes from, what it could have been and put that against the current state. Also things like having to shrink down a dev-team is a factor in my opinion. But also how ‘the outside world’ looks at a game (is it dead to them?) and how full or empty maps and guilds are.

The next expansion will likely say more, but for some the game is already dead, for others the game is still 100% alive and kicking.