Guild Wars 2

Post up a comment of what you do not like, if you’re raging at the class balance. Trying to get a base number of how many people do not like it. I know I am. Mesmer vengeful images nerf completely screwed me over…. absolutely hate it.

Are we talking about sPVP or PVE?

A good change overall. It’s for the betterment of all classes, maybe exceptt ranger

And that’s why you should have 80 of all classes. I’m close to my 6th 80s

I disagree with the blanket nerf to pet damage for Rangers.

I still dislike that there is not enough separation between PvP balance and PvE balance.

I dislike that the idea of balance is to nerf to the lowest rung on the pole rather than picking a baseline of a working build and bringing the rest of the builds up to par.

killcannon.2576:

I disagree with the blanket nerf to pet damage for Rangers.

I still dislike that there is not enough separation between PvP balance and PvE balance.

I dislike that the idea of balance is to nerf to the lowest rung on the pole rather than picking a baseline of a working build and bringing the rest of the builds up to par.

In the blog post that talks about the balance changes, Jonathan Sharp articulates why boosting all the other classes would be a bad idea. I recommend reading through it: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

I’ve played pretty much only Ranger since release. Been patiently hoping for tweaks and improvements to my class. Now my favorite pets are nerfed into the ground, and my weapon can now only shoot arrows as far as I can throw axes. (either I have strong arms or a heck of a weak bow). Raging….naw. Sorely disappointed…yes. Can I have a free profession change so I can switch my character to one Anet isn’t trying to kill? =\

It’s just hard to have any faith in the balance if they were really off by so much. It makes me sad to see Necros so happy that they got some nice buffs but so scared that they’re going to get nerfed back down. Especially with all the rangers coming over.

I guess the rest seemed decent enough.

Necros are happy, rangers are sad. Warriors who PvP are annoyed. Everyone else is either about the same or slightly buffed.

No mystery here.

Senryi.4897:

killcannon.2576:

I disagree with the blanket nerf to pet damage for Rangers.

I still dislike that there is not enough separation between PvP balance and PvE balance.

I dislike that the idea of balance is to nerf to the lowest rung on the pole rather than picking a baseline of a working build and bringing the rest of the builds up to par.

In the blog post that talks about the balance changes, Jonathan Sharp articulates why boosting all the other classes would be a bad idea. I recommend reading through it: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

Pass. Typical dev doubletalk because it’s too hard. Been seeing that excuse for over ten years….and that approach didn’t work then, and doesn’t work now. They remind me of Sisyphus.

I’m not saying buff the already stable builds, I’m saying bring up the other builds to be on par with the stable ones. In other words, LOGIC.

killcannon.2576:

Senryi.4897:

killcannon.2576:

I disagree with the blanket nerf to pet damage for Rangers.

I still dislike that there is not enough separation between PvP balance and PvE balance.

I dislike that the idea of balance is to nerf to the lowest rung on the pole rather than picking a baseline of a working build and bringing the rest of the builds up to par.

In the blog post that talks about the balance changes, Jonathan Sharp articulates why boosting all the other classes would be a bad idea. I recommend reading through it: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

Pass. Typical dev doubletalk because it’s too hard. Been seeing that excuse for over ten years….and that approach didn’t work then, and doesn’t work now. They remind me of Sisyphus.

I’m not saying buff the already stable builds, I’m saying bring up the other builds to be on par with the stable ones. In other words, LOGIC.

It would behoove you to read it, but I can understand why you wouldn’t. The general idea that you bring up (buff the weaker builder to be on par with the stronger ones) is a LOT more complicated and leads to “power creep” as described in the blog post.

So keeping player power down keeps content relevant (for PvE any way). I am not sure we could objectively prove either of our positions so we can agree to disagree.

- Ranger Pet nerf across the board is what got my attention the most. If it was spvp that brought the nerf on, why did the have to hit PvE and WvW as well?

- Ranger shortbow nerf is pretty annoying, and wasn’t needed imo. It makes me feel as if the purpose of the nerf was to force us to use the meh LB in certain situations, rather than continuing to make adjustments to the LB and make us want to use it, rather than force us.

Overall I’m pretty happy with the changes brought by the patch. The only thing that I felt was unneeded was the Ranger pet damage nerf, although I can sort of understand the reasoning behind ANet’s thinking. (Doesn’t mean I agree with it though.)

Senryi.4897:

killcannon.2576:

Senryi.4897:

killcannon.2576:

I disagree with the blanket nerf to pet damage for Rangers.

I still dislike that there is not enough separation between PvP balance and PvE balance.

I dislike that the idea of balance is to nerf to the lowest rung on the pole rather than picking a baseline of a working build and bringing the rest of the builds up to par.

In the blog post that talks about the balance changes, Jonathan Sharp articulates why boosting all the other classes would be a bad idea. I recommend reading through it: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

Pass. Typical dev doubletalk because it’s too hard. Been seeing that excuse for over ten years….and that approach didn’t work then, and doesn’t work now. They remind me of Sisyphus.

I’m not saying buff the already stable builds, I’m saying bring up the other builds to be on par with the stable ones. In other words, LOGIC.

It would behoove you to read it, but I can understand why you wouldn’t. The general idea that you bring up (buff the weaker builder to be on par with the stronger ones) is a LOT more complicated and leads to “power creep” as described in the blog post.

So keeping player power down keeps content relevant (for PvE any way). I am not sure we could objectively prove either of our positions so we can agree to disagree.

It’s been proved beyond any shadows already. Take a look at any MMO from the past ten years, look at their attempts at “balance”, look at how they approached trying to do it, and watch how they fail miserably by using the exact same methods these guys preach.

Like I said, I don’t need to read it again, because I’ve been reading it for ten years. And it’s not a reason, it’s an excuse. It’s always easier to nerf stuff than actually try to balance. They have deadlines, and shareholders, and quotas.

I think you have the words “stable” and “overpowered” confused. Rangers were in no way, shape, or form overpowered (besides maybe the pet revive on down). The pets were finally almost actually good to go. They contributed, didn’t die too fast unless you let them, and were seeing some improvements. Then…BALANCE happened.

It was unnecessary. The time could have been used to bring other builds up to par with the baseline.

I’m happy with the changes. I think they are quite nice.

TL/DR: They reduced dmg of most bunker specs and improved most burst specs. Its a great change to the game META where bunkers are king (in PvP and in pve- “trait wise”). Give some time for the new builds to start showing.

My ele, d/d – Sure, lost about 3-7% dmg and a few stunbreakers. But dmg was too high for its survivability, and that survivability just got boosted with the changes to weakness! I can still heal and cleanse like crazy. On top of that some very interesting burst and condition-bunker possibilities, I was trying a scepter burst build last night and it has great potential! Staff I hardly ever use, not my style, but seems those people are happy too.

My ranger – BM bunker. I can still do a TON of conditions and have great healing. Pet dmg was really way too high. BM could go all out defense and have the pet dealing crazy burst. I mean, there is even a youtube video of a guy running around naked with just a warhorn on WvW killing tons of people with just his jaguar pet. 30 BM pets will still do a good dmg, just not those 7k crits anymore. On the other hand power builds got some nice bonus to buffing their pets and increasing its dmg, and GS/LB is looking even better than before!

My Guard – AH bunker. I really want to test the new spirit weapons, and a build that uses both AH and zealous blade!! This just look too good.

My thief – Meh, really not much changed. I dont like S/p that much. The change to blinds and weakness will make the thief more survivable, but the changes to the stun-breakers will hurt. The new shadow-trap is looking quite good though… I also think there will be some interesting new builds with the changes to steal and venom share. The changes to SB are a big hit in big scale fights, but with the new SoM and weakness (easy combo on SB) maybe we can survive a bit more on the frontline.

Will need tons of new armor sets now…

their pvp balance is ruining the game
an slowly Killing it…

The worst part is its also the usual kick in the face to pve players….like saying “we don t care of you…you are not esport”

Yesterday tried cof….
Warriors didn t lose much dps at all. and guardian was untouched….
Mesmer suffered a HUGE nerf to survivability that was already lacking and what did they get in Exchange?

Illussions HP
Really? did anet learn anything from rangers pet?
they still get oneshot because in PVE nothing can be facetanked….

Elementalist?
Sure it deserved a dps nerf in PvE and a survivabbility nerf along it.

Makes sense……

And the worst part is they said they wouldn t go for strong nerf and still every patch they throw the most severe nerf ever seen in a game randomly for us to TEST in their place

Mesmer survavibility was insane due to Blured Frenzy + distortion + staff#2 + perma vigor from duelling trait. BF was especially op and deserved that cooldown nerf. I am more concerned with the 1s cooldown for Into the void in PvE. A PvE/PVP split or a shorter cooldown (0.5s) could be nice

Novamatrix.2569:

Trying to get a base number of how many people do not like it.

Pointless pursuit. Even the vocal majority on the forum is still a minority in the game. It’s not an accurate representation of the player base.

I’m going against the tide here and saying that I am happy with the recent patch. It might take a few adjustments, but I like playing different builds to the currently accepted meta builds anyway. I have one of most professions and I am happy with all of them. Generally, I find if I noticed something had been nerfed, a little swap around with some weapons etc and I found something that had been buffed and so I would say the balance was nice.

I would agree that while I don’t mind an overall nerf to ranger pets, I was surprised their leash range was cut by over 50% … I think that was a bit much, but in the end, not hugely upset by it. I thought rangers were far too easy to play (and trust me, I rarely complain things are too easy!) in the beginning levels. I would just sit back and let my pet kill stuff for me, which I think, defeated the point of fighting anything.

Yamiga.7863:

Mesmer survavibility was insane due to Blured Frenzy + distortion + staff#2 + perma vigor from duelling trait. BF was especially op and deserved that cooldown nerf. I am more concerned with the 1s cooldown for Into the void in PvE. A PvE/PVP split or a shorter cooldown (0.5s) could be nice

are you saying mesmer survivability in pvE was OP?
i hope not…..

Yet again, the PVE side of the game is considered collateral damage to keep the PVPers whining down.

The phrase “nerfed to the ground” is often over-used, but IMO it applies perfectly to what Anet just did to Rangers’ pets.

Kerin.9125:

Yet again, the PVE side of the game is considered collateral damage to keep the PVPers whining down.

The phrase “nerfed to the ground” is often over-used, but IMO it applies perfectly to what Anet just did to Rangers’ pets.

I think it’s just an immediate reaction … honestly, the first time you run Ranger again after the patch it’s an obvious difference so you might think “what on earth …” but after playing a bit you realise they’re still very powerful. It’s just more reasonably powerful now … now I actually need to put some effort into getting the kill too, rather than just having my pet do it for me. Honestly, I don’t think this is a bad thing. They are far from nerfed into the ground.

And 900 range is still good for a shortbow (imo). That helps differentiate it more from the longbow and gives people a reason to use both, rather than just using the shortbow as a substitution for the longbow.

killcannon.2576:

Senryi.4897:

killcannon.2576:

I disagree with the blanket nerf to pet damage for Rangers.

I still dislike that there is not enough separation between PvP balance and PvE balance.

I dislike that the idea of balance is to nerf to the lowest rung on the pole rather than picking a baseline of a working build and bringing the rest of the builds up to par.

In the blog post that talks about the balance changes, Jonathan Sharp articulates why boosting all the other classes would be a bad idea. I recommend reading through it: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

Pass. Typical dev doubletalk because it’s too hard. Been seeing that excuse for over ten years….and that approach didn’t work then, and doesn’t work now. They remind me of Sisyphus.

I’m not saying buff the already stable builds, I’m saying bring up the other builds to be on par with the stable ones. In other words, LOGIC.

Logic unfortunately would be to throw out what they are doing and actually accept the elephant’s in the room system of pets. That was the single best pet system I’ve ever seen. They had their own roles, traits, you didn’t have to make them use their own abilities, they had a system of getting the pets to the enemies faster, holding aggro, doing decent AOE damage while making the pets immune to a certain % of AOE damage, they had real taming, they had the best system imo.

This game’s ranger doesn’t come close honestly it’s why I decided to delete mine, useless, as useless as turrets are in a dungeon/pvp for engineers.

Yamiga.7863:

Mesmer survavibility was insane due to Blured Frenzy + distortion + staff#2 + perma vigor from duelling trait. BF was especially op and deserved that cooldown nerf. I am more concerned with the 1s cooldown for Into the void in PvE. A PvE/PVP split or a shorter cooldown (0.5s) could be nice

Meh, the 1s thing is going to take some getting used to.

I think they did it mainly to hinder speedrunners a tiny little bit, but I don’t think that it will be a big deal in the end.

A sad day for Rangers…a sad day indeed.

LordByron.8369:

Yamiga.7863:

Mesmer survavibility was insane due to Blured Frenzy + distortion + staff#2 + perma vigor from duelling trait. BF was especially op and deserved that cooldown nerf. I am more concerned with the 1s cooldown for Into the void in PvE. A PvE/PVP split or a shorter cooldown (0.5s) could be nice

are you saying mesmer survivability in pvE was OP?
i hope not…..

Yes, that’s more or less what I said. Mesmer have plenty ways of ignoring damage, and can melee almost everything in pve. The real issue was with pvp though, since the blur effect doesnt count as an invuln and allows to cap/hold points.

Bright.9160:

Meh, the 1s thing is going to take some getting used to.

I think they did it mainly to hinder speedrunners a tiny little bit, but I don’t think that it will be a big deal in the end.

I think the purpose of the change is to make the skill dodgeable in pvp: you could grab people out of the cap points with no visual effect appart from the character animation. I am concerned for the pve aspect because i used it to interrupt ennemies, which cant really be done with the increased cast time

Only about the continued PVP balance changes still being pushed into PVE.

Blurred frenzy was def a PVP change and had nothing to do with PVE. Want to see OP in PVE? See warrior damage even with a minor nerf.

Rangers screwed again…pvp wins out again..whining kittens

Kerin.9125:

Yet again, the PVE side of the game is considered collateral damage to keep the PVPers whining down.

The phrase “nerfed to the ground” is often over-used, but IMO it applies perfectly to what Anet just did to Rangers’ pets.

In Guild Wars Land it isn’t called nerfed to the ground, it’s called Smiter’s Booned

thehipone.6812:

Kerin.9125:

Yet again, the PVE side of the game is considered collateral damage to keep the PVPers whining down.

The phrase “nerfed to the ground” is often over-used, but IMO it applies perfectly to what Anet just did to Rangers’ pets.

In Guild Wars Land it isn’t called nerfed to the ground, it’s called Smiter’s Booned

Ah, so THAT’s what ‘booning’ means.

I’ve seen that a couple of times (not in connection with today’s changes) and having only played GW1 for about 4 weeks some time after Nightfall was released I’m totally not up with that game’s memes.

I also note the GW1 Ranger was apparently subject to huge ‘boonings’ as well.

killcannon.2576:

I disagree with the blanket nerf to pet damage for Rangers.

I still dislike that there is not enough separation between PvP balance and PvE balance.

I dislike that the idea of balance is to nerf to the lowest rung on the pole rather than picking a baseline of a working build and bringing the rest of the builds up to par.

I agree with this on the whole of what I’m raging at.

thehipone.6812:

Kerin.9125:

Yet again, the PVE side of the game is considered collateral damage to keep the PVPers whining down.

The phrase “nerfed to the ground” is often over-used, but IMO it applies perfectly to what Anet just did to Rangers’ pets.

In Guild Wars Land it isn’t called nerfed to the ground, it’s called Smiter’s Booned

^This is the way AN knows how to balance a game.

“This skill was modified in the August 21st, 2008 update to effectively remove it from PvP. In a Developer update, ArenaNet stated, “We recognize that the changes to this skill will essentially remove it from play. In the future, we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of this skill that would be viable but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.”"

Yamiga.7863:

LordByron.8369:

Yamiga.7863:

Mesmer survavibility was insane due to Blured Frenzy + distortion + staff#2 + perma vigor from duelling trait. BF was especially op and deserved that cooldown nerf. I am more concerned with the 1s cooldown for Into the void in PvE. A PvE/PVP split or a shorter cooldown (0.5s) could be nice

are you saying mesmer survivability in pvE was OP?
i hope not…..

Yes, that’s more or less what I said. Mesmer have plenty ways of ignoring damage, and can melee almost everything in pve.

you are trolling then….or maybe you are just really unexperienced in pve.

LordByron.8369:

Yamiga.7863:

LordByron.8369:

Yamiga.7863:

Mesmer survavibility was insane due to Blured Frenzy + distortion + staff#2 + perma vigor from duelling trait. BF was especially op and deserved that cooldown nerf. I am more concerned with the 1s cooldown for Into the void in PvE. A PvE/PVP split or a shorter cooldown (0.5s) could be nice

are you saying mesmer survivability in pvE was OP?
i hope not…..

Yes, that’s more or less what I said. Mesmer have plenty ways of ignoring damage, and can melee almost everything in pve.

you are trolling then….

Definitely trolling. My memser can barely survive as is. :/

Just want to put it out there if they don’t want power creep then why was there so many buff/changes in this patch. Secondly I don’t think they mean what we think they mean by build diversity, I think what they want is some sort of rotation of which build profession uses with only one best build working at a time.

Bran.7425:

Just want to put it out there if they don’t want power creep then why was there so many buff/changes in this patch.

false.
They told old warrior/guardian was balanced (i doubt it) for PvE and needed to up other professions to their level…
They also said tthey would never nerf things so hard as they did because they don t believe in sudden nerfs but they would apply small tweaks….

that before the infamous RTL nerf (one of the biggest ever) and the last from yesterday…i mean behing coherent for a week is too hard
I hope they completely stop to take interviews if they have to tell such lies

RyuDragnier.9476:

LordByron.8369:

Yamiga.7863:

LordByron.8369:

Yamiga.7863:

Mesmer survavibility was insane due to Blured Frenzy + distortion + staff#2 + perma vigor from duelling trait. BF was especially op and deserved that cooldown nerf. I am more concerned with the 1s cooldown for Into the void in PvE. A PvE/PVP split or a shorter cooldown (0.5s) could be nice

are you saying mesmer survivability in pvE was OP?
i hope not…..

Yes, that’s more or less what I said. Mesmer have plenty ways of ignoring damage, and can melee almost everything in pve.

you are trolling then….

Definitely trolling. My memser can barely survive as is. :/

I am wondering who is trolling who… for a light armor prof focused on damage mesmers have rather good survavibility, including in pve since they rely heavily on dodges/on-timing invulnerability and pve damage is often easily predictable. When it comes to tank damage I agree they are probably the worst prof in the game with thief, but when it comes to avoid damage they’re one of the bests.

yamiga i could write a page of stuff explaining you how PvE works….but would be pointless to repeat what players says every day about PvE.

The fact that stuff is predictable (its not….there are Attacks for 11.000 a hit from 8 mobs at once with 0 telling) doesn t make it easily avoidable

Its clear you are a pvp/www player accustomed to a balanced fight so when you think to put a bad AI in that balanced fight it seems all easy.

Unfortunately Mobs are not fair.
They have no global CD they hit like trucks and are durable as 100 bunkers.

You can be PERFECT and still fail unless you play around AI that is not INTENDED.

LordByron.8369:

yamiga i could write a page of stuff explaining you how PvE works….but would be pointless to repeat what players says every day about PvE.

The fact that stuff is predictable (its not….there are Attacks for 11.000 a hit from 8 mobs at once with 0 telling) doesn t make it easily avoidable

Its clear you are a pvp/www player accustomed to a balanced fight so when you think to put a bad AI in that balanced fight it seems all easy.

Unfortunately Mobs are not fair.
They have no global CD they hit like trucks and are durable as 100 bunkers.

You can be PERFECT and still fail unless you play around AI that is not INTENDED.

I’m sorry, in what way is any of that “clear”?

I personally never play PvP – I base all my experience of the game on PvE and I find the Mesmer pretty good at survival.

Things take LONGER to kill, but that’s not the same as finding them harder to kill. And I don’t find that I get downed much while playing a Mesmer. I have never relied on shattering much, so I don’t know how much the nerf will affect me … which really proves that there are other, viable ways to play as Mesmers without thinking that they’re beyond awful now the patch has happened.

My guildie and I just spent the last hour or so playing with our rangers and have decided that while they’re obviously a bit different in feel the changes aren’t a killer and in a few days we’ll even forget what they were like before.

Overall, I don’t mind the changes to the classes I’ve tried out this evening.

edit: only tried open world pve

LordByron.8369:

Its clear you are a pvp/www player accustomed to a balanced fight so when you think to put a bad AI in that balanced fight it seems all easy.

I spend more than 50% of my game time in pve, most of it playing my mesmer in whatever can be done in pve including open world, dungeons and fractals. As I said before, most of the pve damage is imo predictable because pve attacks from mobs are generally slow with an obvious animation. Of course there are exceptions and larger groups makes proper damage mitigating difficult, but its still possible
AND that nerf to mesmer survivability is only 2s more cooldown on BF+ vulnerability to retailation. Really not a big deal

Dog.1472:

I like most of the changes, but the one that shocks me is ranger. They utterly destroyed the class, which wasn’t great even before this epic nerf.

LOL they increased our bow damage and nerfed pets a tiny bit, sorry but I love the patch with my Ranger.

IMO, their Esport vision is one of the things hurting this game the most. I wonder how many players actually care about the Esport aspect, compared to PVE?

Evidently rangers are raging too much, a lot of yesterday’s threads have been locked or moved to the trash.

Not entirely sure how we’re supposed to get the devs’ attention any other way but if they havent been paying attention for 8 months I suppose nothing will change now either.

I suppose I have 6 other characters that didnt get nerfed to play, but somehow I still hope for the ranger.

killcannon.2576:

I disagree with the blanket nerf to pet damage for Rangers.

I still dislike that there is not enough separation between PvP balance and PvE balance.

I dislike that the idea of balance is to nerf to the lowest rung on the pole rather than picking a baseline of a working build and bringing the rest of the builds up to par.

this..so much this!

I am actually fine with the patch because for my set ups, most of them were buffed instead of nerfed. Even my ranger was fine. I play shortbow, but usually am pretty close anyways because I am a trap ranger.

The one area I was disappointed in was that the Engineer was really not given any love in my opinion. I really want to like the class but it is still pretty one note for me.

I actually love the June balance patch for everything but Ranger.

I think a lot of the changes are good – even the Ranger changes. Longbow is much more viable than it was, and is more distinctive from the Shortbow, which was arguably too good before. The recuction to numerous aftercasts was great and makes a lot of sets feel a lot better, though they missed a few obvious ones that need adjustment like Dual Shot, Vital Shot, and Exploding Shot.

Pet nerf hurt, but I would argue that pets were really too strong offensively before. A ranger should be mostly self sufficient, with the pet providing only supplemental damage. They just need to watch how Rangers are performing now carefully and perhaps make a few other tweaks in the next patch.

I disagree with thief (Edit: build breaking nerfs to all the thief builds i actually use) nerf.
I disagree passionately with Elixer R nerf.
I disagree with changes to warrior. (I won’t state how)
Edit: I’m beyond caring for my ranger, it has been dead for six months.

My remaining goodwill is gone. I’m heading to Rift.

Edit: I am thoroughly insulted that they gave a hp buff to mesmers’ clones and phantasms (which i don’t agree with, despite leveling mesmer to 80 twice and putting many hours of WvW and a bit of sPvP on it), and not touching Engineer’s Turrets.

Guardians are in a good place for pve and wvw, though people will continue to whine that they can’t do everything. Necros are now much better.

I have no idea why they nerfed rangers; I don’t remember any OP cries, that just seems very odd.

There was OP cries from BM builds. What’s really surprising is they nerf ranger across the board in both PVP and PVE.

Not raging as yet, but I haven’t tried out all of my characters as yet either. Still, if I find something ‘broken’ or that I don’t like, I try something else and move forward.

“The only true constant is change”