Guild Wars 2

Disclaimer: This is not a flame thread. I really intend to see everyone’s views.

Now, I see spawns of threads that the game has a grind – from Legendary Items, to Ascended to the latest one: Dailies.

Main question:
Now, discarding those – what else do you do that is “not a grind”?

I mean, I don’t want to sound elitist, but grind cannot be avoided entirely on a MMORPG. It can be minimized – and compared to most MMORPG’s I played, GW2 has the least amount of grind.

What I am saying is, you are not required to have a Legendary, nor run FoTM to have Ascended, nor complete the Dailies. It’s all up to you if you to do/get them.

And lastly, though grind has a definitive term in a dictionary, I still feel it is subjective to a person’s perspective. A person who likes what he/she does will not feel a grind, but to someone (note: this is my personal view, please, don’t flame) who is lazy and/or feels like everything should be obtained easily whenever he/she wants it (commonly called “entitled”) will feel the grind – simply because he/she doesn’t want to work “hard” for it.

Just my 2 cents.

For people who have issues with long term goals, everything is a grind if they can’t have it within their short term reference (5 minutes, 1 hour or 1 day).
So we have a lot of lazy guys who don’t want to play a month to have the best amulet of the game, or don’t want to play more than a week to get the best weapon in slot that will scale with the new tiers.

I completely agree that grind is a personal view. What one person finds fun, another person will find distasteful.

To me, Grind means to repetitively do a task that wears you down.

While one person does FotM and feels worn down after doing it, another person could do the exact same run and feel energized and rewarded by doing it.

I also agree that you don’t have to have a Legendary nor do you have to have Ascended gear to be able to enjoy playing the game.

I feel like people should reorganize their priorities to reduce their personal Grind. If they asked themselves questions like, “What do I really want to do in this game?” And “What am I willing to do to achieve my goals in this game?” And “What am I not willing to sacrifice for this game?” people might come away less dissatisfied.

I… I kind of feel like people have been blinded by the desire for rewards. I dunno. If rewards are the “destination” and quests and dungeons and DEs and such are the “journey” I kinda feel like people have ignored the journey aspect and now only focus on the destination part instead of trying to enjoy the experience of both.

Personally, I hate to label a person lazy because they find something a Grind. I myself could do FotM and be entertained by it for a good long while. If I tried to do something like Fishing as WoW did it, I think I’d be bored to tears and I’d never want to Grind the levels. It’s not because I’m lazy (I run my own business in RL along with an evening job for fun). It’s just that some things just aren’t entertaining to some people. I think I can respect that.

Edit: Of course, I dislike when people feel Entitled to things. But that’s a whole ’nother issue. >_>

Thank you all for the wonderful insights – but still no one has answered the main question:

If we define grind as a repetitive task…

“what else do you do inside the game that is “not a grind”?”

DigitalKirin.9714:

I feel like people should reorganize their priorities to reduce their personal Grind. If they asked themselves questions like, “What do I really want to do in this game?” And “What am I willing to do to achieve my goals in this game?” And “What am I not willing to sacrifice for this game?” people might come away less dissatisfied.

Great point!

Personally, I think everyone wants:

-Legendary
-Ascended
-Do monthlies/dailies

But they don’t want to work hard for it. It’s like telling ANet indirectly “hey, gimme stuff”.

Why play an MMORPG? Why not play a solo game, enter a cheat to have 999999 gold, buy all items and hack/slash inside the game?

I see complaints: “Why include crafting to dailies?”, “Why do I need to resu people to get dailies? It’s soooooo boooooring”

Then another: “Legendary’s a grind. I did a math and it will take you 100 years for a casual to get one. It’s too hard….”

I mean, do players really don’t want to work hard anymore? Is this the society we are in? We feel that we should have things the easy way everytime?

Jumping puzzles which I dislike. And they give shaming rewards.

To keep myself from feeling like I’m Grinding, I sample a little bit of Everything.

I do dungeons and FotM. I usually try to get some guildies to go because things are more fun when you play with people you know. It’s less stressful and you come to understand each other’s capabilities.

I work a bit on exploration. I like stopping and watching the whole cutscene in a vista. Sometimes you just need to stop an appreciate the art of the game, and vistas are a good way of doing so. I also like stopping to listen to NPC conversations! Some of them are Hilarious. o_o)-b

I work a bit on crafting. I’m 6/8 and almost done with #7. I am also doing the crafts spread across different characters so that I can boost each one 10 or so levels. I enjoy the discovery process and I accept the cost of mats as a price for this entertainment.

I work on different classes. If I feel like I’ve been on my warrior or elementalist too long, I’ll go level my thief or guardian. I do so because I want to see how each class behaves, what their strengths are, what their weaknesses are. I think this’ll help me play with them better when I’m doing events as a team. Then I’ll know to stand in the goopy green necro stuff because it’s actually healing me instead of thinking it’s poison. Or comboing Cleansing Wave through that elementalist’s water field. Etc.

The thing is that I’m working on one, then moving to another so that I’m always keeping a nice variety.

knives.6345:

But they don’t want to work hard for it. It’s like telling ANet indirectly “hey, gimme stuff”.

Common misconception. It’s not about ‘gimme stuff’, it’s about ‘make me do something interesting instead of something repetitive and boring in order to earn my stuff’.

This is a game. We’re not supposed to work hard. Does not mean everything has to be instant, it just has to be interesting.

I would consider WvW and PvP not a grind.
People in these modes don’t really fight primarily for money or stuff.

knives.6345:

DigitalKirin.9714:

I feel like people should reorganize their priorities to reduce their personal Grind. If they asked themselves questions like, “What do I really want to do in this game?” And “What am I willing to do to achieve my goals in this game?” And “What am I not willing to sacrifice for this game?” people might come away less dissatisfied.

Great point!

Personally, I think everyone wants:

-Legendary
-Ascended
-Do monthlies/dailies

But they don’t want to work hard for it. It’s like telling ANet indirectly “hey, gimme stuff”.

Why play an MMORPG? Why not play a solo game, enter a cheat to have 999999 gold, buy all items and hack/slash inside the game?

I see complaints: “Why include crafting to dailies?”, “Why do I need to resu people to get dailies? It’s soooooo boooooring”

Then another: “Legendary’s a grind. I did a math and it will take you 100 years for a casual to get one. It’s too hard….”

I mean, do players really don’t want to work hard anymore? Is this the society we are in? We feel that we should have things the easy way everytime?

I know what you mean! -_-;

I think of this as Entitlement – people feeling they deserve something, whether they actually deserve it or not.

A grind is when you have to endlessly repeat the same action in order to achieve a goal, especially if this action is boring.

Levelling in GW2 is not a grind. Or at least, it does not have to be. I generally just run around, discover stuff, do hearts and events, mine etc. The levelling just happens. Please note this style of play has a distinct drawback though: it nets you only very little gold compared to those who run dungeons, which means you are faced with a cash grind if you need anything that costs gold, like rare crafting mats. Generally that means gathering materials that are in demand… which definitely is less than thrilling.

Getting crafted exotics with the desired stats (from materials you yourself gather) can be very grindy, depending on what stats you want. Anything based on Ancient bones is easy enough, but the other fine crafting mats take many ours of repetitively killing the same mobs (or gathering endless passiflora) in order to get these VERY rare drops.

I’d like to place the footnote here that I levelled my main in greens, and found I had REAL issues in Orr. I’ve not had these issues since I got exotics, so I dare say exotics can be considered almost a prerequisite for high level gameplay. Thus making some gear grind unavoidable.

And I would definitely call getting Ascended gear a grind. Either you endlessly run fractals, or you get laurels, which will pretty much take forever. And for those who say ’it’s only a little difference in stats’… uhm, well, a lot of PVPers kinda think those little differences add up to make a rather big difference.

Please note: I actually got an AION toon to max level and max PVP gear in the months after launch, before they changed things (a bit). I DO know what a grind is. I know there are worse grinds than GW2 (do I ever) but GW2 definitely IS getting grindier.

Naqaj.6219:

knives.6345:

But they don’t want to work hard for it. It’s like telling ANet indirectly “hey, gimme stuff”.

Common misconception. It’s not about ‘gimme stuff’, it’s about ‘make me do something interesting instead of something repetitive and boring in order to earn my stuff’.

This is a game. We’re not supposed to work hard. Does not mean everything has to be instant, it just has to be interesting.

I feel like there are both types of people.

There are some people who are willing to work hard for something even though they hate the work, but have decided the reward is worth it.

And there are people who want the reward, hate the work, and have decided that the work isn’t worth doing, but they should have the reward anyways.

The first group of people are Grinders. The second group are people who feel Entitled.

The thing is that Grinders differ from nonGrinders only in that the nonGrinders enjoy doing the action that leads to the reward.

knives.6345:

DigitalKirin.9714:

I feel like people should reorganize their priorities to reduce their personal Grind. If they asked themselves questions like, “What do I really want to do in this game?” And “What am I willing to do to achieve my goals in this game?” And “What am I not willing to sacrifice for this game?” people might come away less dissatisfied.

Great point!

Personally, I think everyone wants:

-Legendary
-Ascended
-Do monthlies/dailies

But they don’t want to work hard for it. It’s like telling ANet indirectly “hey, gimme stuff”.

Why play an MMORPG? Why not play a solo game, enter a cheat to have 999999 gold, buy all items and hack/slash inside the game?

I see complaints: “Why include crafting to dailies?”, “Why do I need to resu people to get dailies? It’s soooooo boooooring”

Then another: “Legendary’s a grind. I did a math and it will take you 100 years for a casual to get one. It’s too hard….”

I mean, do players really don’t want to work hard anymore? Is this the society we are in? We feel that we should have things the easy way everytime?

And yours is also a great point. I take this same approach. For me:

I won’t…
…get a Legendary
…complete all the jumping puzzles
…get any gear that can only be obtained through ‘traditional’ MMO class wealth structures (i.e., only people who do dungeons and raids can obtain the best gear). Or dungeon by any other name.
…do the monthly if it involves having to go to dungeons, fractals, etc.

I will (or have)…
…craft until my fingers come off.
…do DEs and other outdoor, organic world party activities.
…do 100% map completion, probably on every character.
…get the Explorer achievement.
…WvW, because I didn’t want to, but decided to see how hard it was going to be to get 100% completion, and found out I really kinda like WvW (though not very good at it, unless I’m running with a big group and doing big attack/defend or supporting activities, like running supplies and fixing/building things).
…do my dailies.
…save up to by items you can buy with the new leafy things, however long that takes.
…do monthlies, if it doesn’t involve dungeons/fractals. Ironically, what seems to happen is I get everything else done without trying. And there’s those piddly 7. Sorry. I’m not going. I lose. Oh well.

And if I need to do something else with my life that day, then stuff doesn’t get done. Oh well. It comes when it comes. Or it never happens, because I moved on to something else, or stopped playing everything entirely.

I would suspect that if you could somehow quantify grind, and quantify the phrase, “It’s the journey, not the destination.” as perception (half full/half empty), and graph it, you’d see that grind perception is higher if you play for destination.

knives.6345:

Personally, I think everyone wants:

-Legendary
-Ascended
-Do monthlies/dailies

Just wanted to say, and i’m sure i’m not the only one. I do not care if I ever get a legendary… as I do not enjoy doing instanced content I do not do fractuals so do not care if I ever get any Ascended and I have yet to do any monthlies as I abhor any form of PvP.

But I would never come to these boards to complain about it as I find plenty of other stuff in this game to keep me entertained…. plus I can take on 4-5 mobs in orr with my Green and Yellow gear equiped guardian and win every time… what do I need better gear for anyhow?

Naqaj.6219:

Common misconception. It’s not about ‘gimme stuff’, it’s about ‘make me do something interesting instead of something repetitive and boring in order to earn my stuff’.

This is a game. We’re not supposed to work hard. Does not mean everything has to be instant, it just has to be interesting.

Unfortauntely, “Interesting” and “Long lasting” require a third element : “Long development time”. So they are really limited on how much “Long lasting interesting” content they can do.

FotM is interesting in that. 10 different mini dungeons that take about 1 hour to run, token rewards and every run is different thanks to the RNG choosing 3 or 4 dungeons for you so that there is lasting appeal. They can slowly build up and add Fractals as they go to keep it fresh. But in the end, they can’t just give you Ascended gear for 60 fractal relics either, so there will be a bit of repitition.

That’s the problem really. If they don’t give you replay value, you’ll whine that you can blow through the content too fast and that there is “No end game!” or “Nothing to do once you’re done with content!”. And they can’t crank out content as fast as players clear it, that’s completely impossible.

Anet did come up with some great concepts. The Dynamic Events keep the overworld fresh and different, the Fractals are easy to expand and good enough to keep people entertained even after having collected enough tokens for 5 sets of gear (I still play them for the challenge and entertainment value even though I’m full Ascended (infused) for my 3 slots of possible gear).

Think about it, how long does a single-player RPG game take to make ? 3-4 years ? How fast can you blow through it ? 50-100 hours depending on how many sidequests/grinding you do. The longer, the more grinding (Disgaea 3 anyone ? You think GW2 is a grind…). The thing is, most people play MMORPGs for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than 100 hours. 100 hours, at 2 hours per day, is 50 days. That’s not even 2 months. Do you know players who want to complete all the content in 2 months ? Content that took years to make ?

Think about this and maybe you’ll find out that MMORPGs are just not something you like. Anet did a fantastic job on making GW2 so casual friendly. BiS items when you ding 80, BiS in every slot with little if no grinding, achieveable through WvW or PvE dungeons or Overworld DEs, etc.. etc..

For me, a grind is when the reward doesn’t seem worth the effort (purely subjective). I am not trying for a legendary, I am not collecting 250 powerful blood to make a backpack, etc. Each of these activities seems like a horrible grind.

If an activity is fun, then you can require more of it before I consider it a grind. For example, I don’t particular like running dungeons, but I can run COF 3 times and get exotic flame legion gloves, so it’s not really a grind.

I like WvW a lot more. However, at the rate I accumulate badges of honor it would take about 8 days or more to get the same quality of gloves. I view trying to obtain invaders armor as a ridiculous grind.

Riss.1536:

For people who have issues with long term goals, everything is a grind if they can’t have it within their short term reference (5 minutes, 1 hour or 1 day).
So we have a lot of lazy guys who don’t want to play a month to have the best amulet of the game, or don’t want to play more than a week to get the best weapon in slot that will scale with the new tiers.

That’s exactly what I think.

Naqaj.6219:

Common misconception. It’s not about ‘gimme stuff’, it’s about ‘make me do something interesting instead of something repetitive and boring in order to earn my stuff’.

This is a game. We’re not supposed to work hard. Does not mean everything has to be instant, it just has to be interesting.

Actually, as a MMORPG, we’re supposed to work our rewards – if we wanna get something – we need to do something as the game is designed.

Atleast that’s my concept of MMORPG – it’s like real life mixed with fantasy to create more colors. In real life, you need a long, boring repetitive job to get money to buy stuff. Why should a MMO be any different? I’m not gonna elaborate on the fantasy side – you get the idea. lol

And also, boring is subjective. Like say, crafting. I hate crafting. I despise it along with Jump Puzzle. It annoys the heck out of me. But, it is part of the daily (craft) and monthly (JP) and I understand that if I need to earn the daily and monthly, I need to craft and discover JP.

I understand I only have 2 options:

-Do the things I hate to get reward, for the sake of reward
-Don’t do things I hate and understand the consequences (not getting the reward)

There is no 3rd option of not doing it and expecting a reward. O_O

DigitalKirin.9714:

I feel like there are both types of people.

There are some people who are willing to work hard for something even though they hate the work, but have decided the reward is worth it.

And there are people who want the reward, hate the work, and have decided that the work isn’t worth doing, but they should have the reward anyways.

The first group of people are Grinders. The second group are people who feel Entitled.

The thing is that Grinders differ from nonGrinders only in that the nonGrinders enjoy doing the action that leads to the reward.

I hate those people. I know hate is a serious word, but personally, I am annoyed by them. I think either they are trolling or just some spoiled kid left online for quite sometime. No offense.

Firstly, it’s important to differentiate between farming for something that has zero effect on how you play, and grinding for something that you need to be the best that you can be. The “legendary grind” as people call it is not a grind at all, because heaven knows you don’t need a legendary for anything. It’s no different than Obsidian Armor in GW1; it looked cool, and that was it. The “legendary grind” really just requires a lot of farming X or Y or Z or whatever makes the most money the fastest, or whatever is most tolerable for your enjoyment of the game, etc.

A lot of people, myself included, were spoiled by playing GW1 for seven years. Nothing was a grind that involved best-in-slot items. You played the game normally, and could even pay someone to run you to Droknar’s Forge early in the game, and buy max stat items for a pittance of plat. Then you didn’t have to worry about it ever again if you didn’t want to, which was wonderful.

GW2 didn’t have a gear grind prior to Ascended items. Ascended items are a gear grind no matter how you slice it, because there is content you must perform repeatedly that you might not do otherwise without the BiS gear at the end of the tunnel. Before, you could do daily achievements and monthy achievements if you wanted to, you were not compelled to. Now, if you don’t, you will miss out on best-in-slot Amulets, which is an important part of maximizing the effectiveness of your character. Similarly, you have to farm Fractals of the Mists to obtain best-in-slot rings, which are another important part of the maximization of your character. These are grinds, and they are forced upon us to be the best that we can be (which is important, regardless of the individual differences seen in the item stats).

I don’t like the grind, but I’ll deal with it because I want my characters to be the best that they can be. It’s really as simple as that, and while I’m pretty confident that ANet has changed their philosophy over the years, I enjoy the game enough that I’ll sit on my thumbs and do what they make me to get my gear. It’s not fun, but it is what it is. That’s my stance.

knives.6345:

And also, boring is subjective. Like say, crafting. I hate crafting. I despise it […] It annoys the heck out of me. But, it is part of the daily (craft)

And you know what ? That’s the most dumb daily to whine about. Even if you absolutely despise crafting, the daily itself takes 10 seconds to do and doesn’t even require you to learn/do/build up anything. Just grab any of the professions, grab enough of the material for the level 1 recipe you can do ( a refine most likely) and just do it 10 times.

I’m LW 400/WS 400 and that’s how I do the daily. You think I bother to actually farm mats for 10 high quality rares or exotics ? No, I make 10 ingots or 10 refined leathers. Takes 10 seconds, costs me 90c at most if I didn’t just run a FotM or dungeon or been farming the overworld and have plenty of mats with me already.

knives.6345:

Thank you all for the wonderful insights – but still no one has answered the main question:

If we define grind as a repetitive task…

“what else do you do inside the game that is “not a grind”?”

Everything else.

I have been playing MMOs since 1994 in Neverwinter Nights, I don’t remember once, ever “grinding”. Thta goes through Ultima Online, DAOC, SWG, all of em.

Grinding for you may be a repetative task, but for me, its doing something i don’t want to be doing. I’d much rather do the things i want to be doing in a game, that way its not a grind, its enjoyable, crazy concept, i know….

You want me to collect 1000 bear kitten for some shiney new ring, and expect me to go out day after day after day to kill bears till my brain is numb?? really? thats not going to happen. I wouldn’t do that if they were paying me to p[lay their game.

People complaining about grinding, are more than likely doing things they don’t want to do, to show off their new shiney in some virtual online world… and paying money to do it… its sad really.

Stop doing what you don’t want to do. MMOs may turn out to be a lot more fun, and perhaps give developers a clue about making games “fun” instead of a “grind”.

knives.6345:

I understand I only have 2 options:

-Do the things I hate to get reward, for the sake of reward
-Don’t do things I hate and understand the consequences (not getting the reward)

There is no 3rd option of not doing it and expecting a reward. O_O

I agree, except that I don’t see a problem with people saying that they aren’t doing it because it’s boring and not worth the effort. Nor do I see a problem with constructively recommending ways that it would be less boring or more worth it.

For example, I won’t throw 1000 rare great swords into the mystic forge for a chance to get a precursor because I think RNG stinks and I may never get the reward, but I would forge 500 exotic great swords if getting a precursor were certain.

Or better yet, I won’t spend 1000 hours killing bears :-). But I will spend 1000 hours following a quest.

The fact is that it’s easier for developers to just insist on 1000 hours of bear slaying than to develop an appropriate quest line.

Riss.1536:

For people who have issues with long term goals, everything is a grind if they can’t have it within their short term reference (5 minutes, 1 hour or 1 day).
So we have a lot of lazy guys who don’t want to play a month to have the best amulet of the game, or don’t want to play more than a week to get the best weapon in slot that will scale with the new tiers.

I guess if you are hard of thinking and therefore don’t understand what grind is, that laziness has nothing to do with a game, or that this game was (laughably) sold on the notions of non-grind, the “non-mmo” mmo and horizontal progression, how having tiers of gear that have to grinded for is a joke, then you may well hold the opinion you posted.

On the current system of laurels, to get my 1 toon geared entirely in ascended gear it will take 16 months to do this. This is assuming they never add the retro for the achievements already done, and to fill every slot and completely upgrade every ascended piece. That is not normal sorry, even games that were insanely difficult aren’t this bad about it. And then, even tho they increased the drop rates on heavy bags from Orrian mobs, it’s still a double RNG system. Actually it’s a triple RNG system for T6 mats now. There’s RNG to get heavy bags to drop, RNG to open the regular heavy bags to see what drops, and now we get RNG to see what drops from the Laurel bags.

We don’t need more bags, we need a direct way of getting T6 mats of a single kind. We need a way of buying 5 T6 mats of the same kind per laurel. Especially Lodestones. Between that and gossamer it’s like those two things are diamonds or something.

It should not be this difficult to gear up alts. I feel really bad for any newcomer that logs in gets to 80 and then discovers what they expect from them to get to max geared.

I love how people start calling other people stupid when their arguments don’t work out or the others just have a different opinion. Way to go Sylosi.

BlackestKnight.1278:

knives.6345:

And also, boring is subjective. Like say, crafting. I hate crafting. I despise it […] It annoys the heck out of me. But, it is part of the daily (craft)

And you know what ? That’s the most dumb daily to whine about. Even if you absolutely despise crafting, the daily itself takes 10 seconds to do and doesn’t even require you to learn/do/build up anything. Just grab any of the professions, grab enough of the material for the level 1 recipe you can do ( a refine most likely) and just do it 10 times.

I’m LW 400/WS 400 and that’s how I do the daily. You think I bother to actually farm mats for 10 high quality rares or exotics ? No, I make 10 ingots or 10 refined leathers. Takes 10 seconds, costs me 90c at most if I didn’t just run a FotM or dungeon or been farming the overworld and have plenty of mats with me already.

True, yet people continue to do so. Lamest excuse “boring”. It’ll take about what? 2minutes at most. Buy the lowest recipe and refine 10 of them. That’s it.

I really do not understand where the whine comes from.

knives.6345:

Disclaimer: This is not a flame thread. I really intend to see everyone’s views.

Now, I see spawns of threads that the game has a grind – from Legendary Items, to Ascended to the latest one: Dailies.

Main question:
Now, discarding those – what else do you do that is “not a grind”?

I mean, I don’t want to sound elitist, but grind cannot be avoided entirely on a MMORPG. It can be minimized – and compared to most MMORPG’s I played, GW2 has the least amount of grind.

What I am saying is, you are not required to have a Legendary, nor run FoTM to have Ascended, nor complete the Dailies. It’s all up to you if you to do/get them.

And lastly, though grind has a definitive term in a dictionary, I still feel it is subjective to a person’s perspective. A person who likes what he/she does will not feel a grind, but to someone (note: this is my personal view, please, don’t flame) who is lazy and/or feels like everything should be obtained easily whenever he/she wants it (commonly called “entitled”) will feel the grind – simply because he/she doesn’t want to work “hard” for it.

Just my 2 cents.

To answer your question, people are against grinding for stats (i.e. ascended items) because fractals is still the most viable place to grind for them, and many people do not find fractals to be fun. For people who don’t like fractals but want optimal gear, ascended items are seen as an “obstacle” or “filler” between them and what they’d rather be doing, which may be PvP, WvW, dungeons, etc. However, the people against grinding for cosmetics are wrong.

knives.6345:

I mean, do players really don’t want to work hard anymore? Is this the society we are in? We feel that we should have things the easy way everytime?

We get Pizza delivered to our door because we don’t want to cook or are too lazy to get dressed to go out to eat or can’t miss that show that’s on tv. We are a catered to society….
Answer…Yes

Does not make it right though. :-D

knives.6345:

Disclaimer: This is not a flame thread. I really intend to see everyone’s views.

Now, I see spawns of threads that the game has a grind – from Legendary Items, to Ascended to the latest one: Dailies.

Main question:
Now, discarding those – what else do you do that is “not a grind”?

I mean, I don’t want to sound elitist, but grind cannot be avoided entirely on a MMORPG. It can be minimized – and compared to most MMORPG’s I played, GW2 has the least amount of grind.

What I am saying is, you are not required to have a Legendary, nor run FoTM to have Ascended, nor complete the Dailies. It’s all up to you if you to do/get them.

And lastly, though grind has a definitive term in a dictionary, I still feel it is subjective to a person’s perspective. A person who likes what he/she does will not feel a grind, but to someone (note: this is my personal view, please, don’t flame) who is lazy and/or feels like everything should be obtained easily whenever he/she wants it (commonly called “entitled”) will feel the grind – simply because he/she doesn’t want to work “hard” for it.

Just my 2 cents.

BEST POST EVER!!!!, if people get what they want right now, in 12 months this game will be DEAD, everyone will leave for boredom.

Daemonne.5018:

knives.6345:

I mean, do players really don’t want to work hard anymore? Is this the society we are in? We feel that we should have things the easy way everytime?

We get Pizza delivered to our door because we don’t want to cook or are too lazy to get dressed to go out to eat or can’t miss that show that’s on tv. We are a catered to society….
Answer…Yes

Does not make it right though. :-D

Lol… yeah, grinding builds character. Do you have a truant son named Calvin, by any chance

My personal opinion:
-Many lvls are grind + to many zones that stay empty to compensate that jurney (dont mind few lvl to learn class and environment/lore).
-Didnt complain about exotics but ascended is grind if you want to stay compatitive (also doont complain about hard to get cosmetics).
-Dailies/monthlies are grind – since they are pointles and give you quite a lot currency (karma, laureals) to ignore them. And if you dont have much time to play you would rather do boring dailies than do something you like.
-reward system is grind (you dont get reward because you completed something hardish but you get reward after you grind it + lotery system)

And to ppl that say i dont want to work hard -> I play games because they are fun not because i have to work hard in order to be fun after that. Or i guess i cant compare to addicted ppl that are thinking playing games is work. Sorry i value my time too much.
What else do you do in game if its not repetative task? Ask LoL or BF/CoD. Forced grind is minimum but they have fun gameplay so ppl like to play it quite much.

My definition of grind: If you have to do one thing more than once to get reward in the end (+ sometimes are also some %). In WoW if i killed Arthas i expect to get proper reward (chooseable prefeared :p) not tokens or something that force me to do it again and again and again.