All statistics stated have been researched and tested. Now, I know most of you guys never fought a good engi, a couple of you have fought a good ele, quite a few must have fought a good ranger, and all of you have fought an annoying thief. Well, here are the numbers me and my friends found when testing the healing and condition removal of these classes (keep in mind that we didn’t include skills that remove all conditions for it’s effect but assumed that it only removes 1 condition). With the engi we healed for about 55k health and have the ability to remove at least 20 conditions at the time, all in 1 minute. On the ele, we are able to heal around 60k health and remove at least 14 conditions at the same time, all in 1 minute. On the ranger… we were able to heal about 50k health and remove
at least 34 conditions. Now, ha ha ho, the thief…moment of silence…heals for 65k and removes 25 conditions. These thieves also have to ability to permanently stealth as they please. If they feel that they want to stealth for three minutes straight (no reveal)… they can start at any given time. Know that we didn’t include any elite skills and we only need at least 1 utility slot to achieve these healing capabilities on each class. Also, (besides the thief, though they can do this if they want to) the classes have approximately 3000 toughness and still enough damage to kill a bunker guardian, not completely useless. We might make a video to show this to forums. We also survived against three people in a three vs. one with all four character before (though we had to flak of course. The thief just killed them all one by one however). Anyway, what do you think guys? Gw2 went a little overboard on the whole “healing” idea. At least we have phantasm Mesmers to explode 20k damage in four seconds just to keep these guys in check, right?
Again what do you think about this awesome game where you don’t really die? I hated how you actually died in most MMOS. Don’t you like the whole immortal effect?
/sarcasm
Almost been a year now and I want your input.
you forgot guardian hell maybe even necro, who knows
“i think it’s an underserved nerf. now we have to slot a stun breaker??”
“berserker stance clears all CC on you and you’re still immune to CC for 8 seconds”
-Excalibur.9748
Now, I know most of you guys never fought a good engi, a couple of you have fought a good ele, quite a few must have fought a good ranger, and all of you have fought an annoying thief. Well, here are the numbers me and my friends found when testing the healing and condition removal of these classes (keep in mind that we didn’t include skills that remove all conditions for it’s effect but assumed that it only removes 1 condition). With the engi we healed for about 55k health and have the ability to remove at least 20 conditions at the time, all in 1 minute. On the ele, we are able to heal around 60k health and remove at least 14 conditions at the same time, all in 1 minute. On the ranger… we were able to heal about 50k health and remove
at least 34 conditions. Now, ha ha ho, the thief…moment of silence…heals for 65k and removes 25 conditions. These thieves also have to ability to permanently stealth as they please. <stopped reading>
Please tell me how a thief can stack stealth greater than 12s? I would like to know because for all I know thats bullkitten.
This is the exact reason warriors can’t tank, and you only see viable builds involving some sort of DPS and/or condition stats. We only have one heal on a very slow cooldown, cannot give ourselves protection without there being some randomness factor, and we only have 2 condition removals, one of which is a heal. Our class isn’t built to last long fights like these above mentioned classes. I do think you’re forgetting heal-based guardians as well.
All in all, my biggest point is that in that minute that those other classes are able to heal for that amount and a warrior is not, our only option is damage or die. Build variety, people.
Now, I know most of you guys never fought a good engi, a couple of you have fought a good ele, quite a few must have fought a good ranger, and all of you have fought an annoying thief. Well, here are the numbers me and my friends found when testing the healing and condition removal of these classes (keep in mind that we didn’t include skills that remove all conditions for it’s effect but assumed that it only removes 1 condition). With the engi we healed for about 55k health and have the ability to remove at least 20 conditions at the time, all in 1 minute. On the ele, we are able to heal around 60k health and remove at least 14 conditions at the same time, all in 1 minute. On the ranger… we were able to heal about 50k health and remove
at least 34 conditions. Now, ha ha ho, the thief…moment of silence…heals for 65k and removes 25 conditions. These thieves also have to ability to permanently stealth as they please. <stopped reading>
Please tell me how a thief can stack stealth greater than 12s? I would like to know because for all I know thats bullkitten.
Well now, you need to put initiative gain in your traits. There is a trait to stealth and gain 2 initiative from it. Then you can gain initiative every 2 secs with another trait. ANd there are a bunch of other triats to gain initiative. There are even 2 utilities for it. After that you just use P/D and go Black Powder—→ Hartseeker for stealth. You then hearseeker three times in each black powder. Keep that up and they won’t know where you will black powder next and it will be impossible to find you. You never have to leave stealth if you don’t want to.
This is the exact reason warriors can’t tank, and you only see viable builds involving some sort of DPS and/or condition stats. We only have one heal on a very slow cooldown, cannot give ourselves protection without there being some randomness factor, and we only have 2 condition removals, one of which is a heal. Our class isn’t built to last long fights like these above mentioned classes. I do think you’re forgetting heal-based guardians as well.
All in all, my biggest point is that in that minute that those other classes are able to heal for that amount and a warrior is not, our only option is damage or die. Build variety, people.
I agree. I love my warrior and he is very good. It is those immortal healers that tick me off. Just outlast me enough to damage me down. I won’t last as long because my potential on a warrior is limited.
Problem is the moment you stop you have 12s before stealth disappears. I’ve already tried it as a thief and i’ve already watched 3 thieves attempt to break 12s for 20+ minutes straight. I even helped them with my own black powders and Shadow Refuges.
Never did it get more than 12s. Just wanted to give you a heads up.
Problem is the moment you stop you have 12s before stealth disappears. I’ve already tried it as a thief and i’ve already watched 3 thieves attempt to break 12s for 20+ minutes straight. I even helped them with my own black powders and Shadow Refuges.
Never did it get more than 12s. Just wanted to give you a heads up.
Oh no you cannot stack stealth up past 12 seconds. Though you don’t really need to do that to perma stealth anyways.
Now, ha ha ho, the thief…moment of silence…heals for 65k and removes 25 conditions. These thieves also have to ability to permanently stealth as they please. If they feel that they want to stealth for three minutes straight (no reveal)… they can start at any given time. Know that we didn’t include any elite skills and we only need at least 1 utility slot to achieve these healing capabilities on each class. Also, (besides the thief, though they can do this if they want to) they have approximately 3000 toughness and still enough damage to kill a bunker guardian, not completely useless.
You don’t have the slightest idea what you’re talking about.
This is the exact reason warriors can’t tank, and you only see viable builds involving some sort of DPS and/or condition stats. We only have one heal on a very slow cooldown, cannot give ourselves protection without there being some randomness factor, and we only have 2 condition removals, one of which is a heal. Our class isn’t built to last long fights like these above mentioned classes. I do think you’re forgetting heal-based guardians as well.
All in all, my biggest point is that in that minute that those other classes are able to heal for that amount and a warrior is not, our only option is damage or die. Build variety, people.
Every class gets only “one” heal UNLESS they build for more. Warriors can build for more. There is a trait that lets shouts heal. There you go 3 more heals for you.
Since when did this business of being a hero become being a business?
Numbers look high, but it doesn’t correlate with in game combat. As it stands, guardians and eles are still, by far, the tankiest.
Engis can only heal that high through the use of spamming healing bombs for ~400 hp each, which is quickly negated by any profession specced in power, and thieves have to stay in stealth the entire duration of the fight. Guardians can remain tanky while being on the offensive, so can eles, which is why you will usually see a guardian/ele beat most engis and thieves(assuming the thief decides to stay)
I think most people will know by now that thieves are one of the worst tanking classes, which is why they get stealth, and engi’s would probably be in the middle.
IMO
Guardian D/D ele
BM ranger
Necro
Engi
Warr
Thief
Mesmer
Well now, you need to put initiative gain in your traits. There is a trait to stealth and gain 2 initiative from it. Then you can gain initiative every 2 secs with another trait. ANd there are a bunch of other triats to gain initiative. There are even 2 utilities for it. After that you just use P/D and go Black Powder—-> Hartseeker for stealth. You then hearseeker three times in each black powder. Keep that up and they won’t know where you will black powder next and it will be impossible to find you. You never have to leave stealth if you don’t want to.
This entire paragraph highlights quite obviously that you know nothing at all about the problem you are attempting to highlight.
And if you are a thief who geared majorly for toughness…trust me, your heals are abysmal.
Problem is the moment you stop you have 12s before stealth disappears. I’ve already tried it as a thief and i’ve already watched 3 thieves attempt to break 12s for 20+ minutes straight. I even helped them with my own black powders and Shadow Refuges.
Never did it get more than 12s. Just wanted to give you a heads up.
i just log on my 19 matches played and read all the traits and click them and use dp combo as a newb thief like me i managed a 1 min+ stealth i can go on for ever like this if i want, also i managed a 15 sec stack with blinding powder and SR. like that guy said you don’t need to stack over an amount of secs to be perm stealth
“i think it’s an underserved nerf. now we have to slot a stun breaker??”
“berserker stance clears all CC on you and you’re still immune to CC for 8 seconds”
-Excalibur.9748
Problem is the moment you stop you have 12s before stealth disappears. I’ve already tried it as a thief and i’ve already watched 3 thieves attempt to break 12s for 20+ minutes straight. I even helped them with my own black powders and Shadow Refuges.
Never did it get more than 12s. Just wanted to give you a heads up.
i just log on my 19 matches played and read all the traits and click them and use dp combo as a newb thief like me i managed a 1 min+ stealth i can go on for ever like this if i want, also i managed a 15 sec stack with blinding powder and SR. like that guy said you don’t need to stack over an amount of secs to be perm stealth
Well I invoke “Vid or it didn’t happen”.
Secondly, there is no point in stealth if the enemy can see the chain of AoE rings and smoke explosions. Not only are you useless in stealth but with the rings making your general location a killzone you might as well just stand out in the open and spam /cry until someone comes along and kills you.
Problem is the moment you stop you have 12s before stealth disappears. I’ve already tried it as a thief and i’ve already watched 3 thieves attempt to break 12s for 20+ minutes straight. I even helped them with my own black powders and Shadow Refuges.
Never did it get more than 12s. Just wanted to give you a heads up.
i just log on my 19 matches played and read all the traits and click them and use dp combo as a newb thief like me i managed a 1 min+ stealth i can go on for ever like this if i want, also i managed a 15 sec stack with blinding powder and SR. like that guy said you don’t need to stack over an amount of secs to be perm stealth
The problem with that is against an enemy with half a brain, all they need to do is stand in your BP. Then you won’t be able to get more than 4s otherwise you will snag the enemy going through your BP, as he is standing in it.
For once try to understand that pvp is destroying this game……
Before all population left is made of those 10-20 pvp players that feels more important than Others…
Thank you!
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
Well, here are the numbers me and my friends found when testing the healing and condition removal of these classes (keep in mind that we didn’t include skills that remove all conditions for it’s effect but assumed that it only removes 1 condition).
Yeah… Methodology please. Your numbers seem screwy as kitten. Not to mention your little assumption is ridiculous. All condition removal =/= 1 condition removed.
Numbers look high, but it doesn’t correlate with in game combat. As it stands, guardians and eles are still, by far, the tankiest.
Engis can only heal that high through the use of spamming healing bombs for ~400 hp each, which is quickly negated by any profession specced in power, and thieves have to stay in stealth the entire duration of the fight. Guardians can remain tanky while being on the offensive, so can eles, which is why you will usually see a guardian/ele beat most engis and thieves(assuming the thief decides to stay)
I think most people will know by now that thieves are one of the worst tanking classes, which is why they get stealth, and engi’s would probably be in the middle.
IMO
Guardian D/D ele
BM ranger
Necro
Engi
Warr
Thief
Mesmer
You don’t even remotely know what you talking about , everything you said was anecdotal evidence..makes me wonder have you even played GW2 before.
I never expect to lose. Even when I’m the Engineer , I still prepare a victory speech.
Problem is the moment you stop you have 12s before stealth disappears. I’ve already tried it as a thief and i’ve already watched 3 thieves attempt to break 12s for 20+ minutes straight. I even helped them with my own black powders and Shadow Refuges.
Never did it get more than 12s. Just wanted to give you a heads up.
i just log on my 19 matches played and read all the traits and click them and use dp combo as a newb thief like me i managed a 1 min+ stealth i can go on for ever like this if i want, also i managed a 15 sec stack with blinding powder and SR. like that guy said you don’t need to stack over an amount of secs to be perm stealth
The problem with that is against an enemy with half a brain, all they need to do is stand in your BP. Then you won’t be able to get more than 4s otherwise you will snag the enemy going through your BP, as he is standing in it.
even if you snag your enemy with HS you still get the stealth. no?
“i think it’s an underserved nerf. now we have to slot a stun breaker??”
“berserker stance clears all CC on you and you’re still immune to CC for 8 seconds”
-Excalibur.9748
Unless you go into detail and possibly post videos, we are discussing thin air.
@ Zacchary
Stealthed players can: scout and report position of enemy zergs (wvw), ress allies, stomp downed enemies, place down traps (wvw), all of this while not needing to interrupt stealth. They could potentially interrupt their stealth for a brief 4 seconds to down low-hp enemies with a quick backstab-heartseeker. Useless much?
“We have no first-person view because stupid people would lock into it”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
I would like to see it filmed. With builds and numbers. Otherwise I call lies on that.
You don’t even need Deception skills to do it. All you need is dagger/pistol and 2-3 specific traits. Black Powder to create a smoke field and a Leap finisher (heart Seeker) to stealth for 3 seconds. Rinse and repeat for perma stealth. With the right traits you won’t run out of initiative. There are a few ways to spec it in traits.
You don’t even need Deception skills to do it. All you need is dagger/pistol and 2-3 specific traits. Black Powder to create a smoke field and a Leap finisher (heart Seeker) to stealth for 3 seconds. Rinse and repeat for perma stealth. With the right traits you won’t run out of initiative. There are a few ways to spec it in traits.
except that you get revealed for 3 seconds where stealth is not allowed after stealthing. Like I said though, I don’t like numbers pulled out of ones buttocks and would like to see their healing experiment filmed with full builds shown.
You don’t even need Deception skills to do it. All you need is dagger/pistol and 2-3 specific traits. Black Powder to create a smoke field and a Leap finisher (heart Seeker) to stealth for 3 seconds. Rinse and repeat for perma stealth. With the right traits you won’t run out of initiative. There are a few ways to spec it in traits.
except that you get revealed for 3 seconds where stealth is not allowed after stealthing. Like I said though, I don’t like numbers pulled out of ones buttocks and would like to see their healing experiment filmed with full builds shown.
lol no. Your still in stealth when you do your next heartseeker. The revealed debuff doesn’t happen because your permanently in stealth off the black powder. You obviously haven’t tried it.
lol no. Your still in stealth when you do your next heartseeker. The revealed debuff doesn’t happen because your permanently in stealth off the black powder. You obviously haven’t tried it.
report as a bug then.
Because as far as I remember you get revealed for hitting an enemy. If revealed debuff does not happen you found a glitched build. Now should I send a report ticket, or should you?
Edit: sent in a report as a bug and included the linked video for evidence.
Unless you go into detail and possibly post videos, we are discussing thin air.
@ Zacchary
Stealthed players can: scout and report position of enemy zergs (wvw), ress allies, stomp downed enemies, place down traps (wvw), all of this while not needing to interrupt stealth. They could potentially interrupt their stealth for a brief 4 seconds to down low-hp enemies with a quick backstab-heartseeker. Useless much?
That would be more true if the thief could stay in stealth more than 12s. Otherwise they are no better then anyone else at scouting.
lol no. Your still in stealth when you do your next heartseeker. The revealed debuff doesn’t happen because your permanently in stealth off the black powder. You obviously haven’t tried it.
report as a bug then.
Because as far as I remember you get revealed for hitting an enemy. If revealed debuff does not happen you found a glitched build. Now should I send a report ticket, or should you?
Edit: sent in a report as a bug and included the linked video for evidence.
no, its been like this for ages, P5+HS = stealth even hit, if you call yourself a thief shame on you for not knowing this and try to blame it on bugs. Or if you are not a thief, shame on you as well for talking bs about something you don’t know
“i think it’s an underserved nerf. now we have to slot a stun breaker??”
“berserker stance clears all CC on you and you’re still immune to CC for 8 seconds”
-Excalibur.9748
no, its been like this for ages, P5+HS = stealth even hit, if you call yourself a thief shame on you for not knowing this and try to blame it on bugs. Or if you are not a thief, shame on you as well for talking bs about something you don’t know
yet if you can scout in WvW without being seen EVER for forever it is obviously a design flaw. Most likely it was overlooked and nobody brought attention to this build. Now that it was reported in maybe it will be fixed.
no, its been like this for ages, P5+HS = stealth even hit, if you call yourself a thief shame on you for not knowing this and try to blame it on bugs. Or if you are not a thief, shame on you as well for talking bs about something you don’t know
yet if you can scout in WvW without being seen EVER for forever it is obviously a design flaw. Most likely it was overlooked and nobody brought attention to this build. Now that it was reported in maybe it will be fixed.
you can also scout in wvw without being seen ever for forever without perma stealth
oh and shame on you again, did you even try the technique to say that it can be used for scouting?
“i think it’s an underserved nerf. now we have to slot a stun breaker??”
“berserker stance clears all CC on you and you’re still immune to CC for 8 seconds”
-Excalibur.9748
you can also scout in wvw without being seen ever for forever without perma stealth
oh and shame on you again, did you even try the technique to say that it can be used for scouting?
Okay. Film a video of staying close to the enemy team in an active WvW server without getting seen without stealth.
Point is: perma stealth was not supposed to be possible.
and what is your problem exactly? That they’re in a tank build? Other people choose a tank build without being able to be perma invisible. Also ever tried stacking boon duration on your armor in runes? Never ending stealth with you having to do this how often? Every 10 seconds?
Obviously a design flaw. Like I pointed out.
Not tried this but in that video he wasn’t revealed using heartskeeker because he didn’t actually hit anything or even have a target? No idea, if any of the other skills reveal you then I would say definatly a bug and it should have been reported loooong ago.
Since when did this business of being a hero become being a business?
and what is your problem exactly? That they’re in a tank build? Other people choose a tank build without being able to be perma invisible. Also ever tried stacking boon duration on your armor in runes? Never ending stealth with you having to do this how often? Every 10 seconds?
Obviously a design flaw. Like I pointed out.
And obviously you didn’t click on the picture so I will tell you. That vid is outdated being almost 8 months old. That’s the problem with it.
And obviously you didn’t click on the picture so I will tell you. That vid is outdated being almost 8 months old. That’s the problem with it.
according to this post:
You don’t even need Deception skills to do it. All you need is dagger/pistol and 2-3 specific traits. Black Powder to create a smoke field and a Leap finisher (heart Seeker) to stealth for 3 seconds. Rinse and repeat for perma stealth. With the right traits you won’t run out of initiative. There are a few ways to spec it in traits.
still more than doable today.
According to the posts on the video, someone was still able to do it 3 months ago.
And obviously you didn’t click on the picture so I will tell you. That vid is outdated being almost 8 months old. That’s the problem with it.
according to this post:
You don’t even need Deception skills to do it. All you need is dagger/pistol and 2-3 specific traits. Black Powder to create a smoke field and a Leap finisher (heart Seeker) to stealth for 3 seconds. Rinse and repeat for perma stealth. With the right traits you won’t run out of initiative. There are a few ways to spec it in traits.
still more than doable today.
According to the posts on the video, someone was still able to do it 3 months ago.
If you insist on the fact that being able to permastealth by simply using black powder/hs every 12 has no point, I’m led to believe that you play a rather poor thief. I’ll leave it at that, since we’re derealing the thread.
“We have no first-person view because stupid people would lock into it”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
Can we keep the perma-stealth kittening somewhere else?
It’s terribly off topic and I’m interested to see if the OP actually posts some evidence, cause otherwise I’m just labeling this “whiny out-of-the-anal-cavity bullkitten” and ignoring it.
The previous point was that the op required 3 heartseekers to gain the full duration, in REAL combat the second or third heartseeker can be body blocked, causing loss of stealth and reveal. end of perma stealth.
However, yes with a terrible and useless trait setup, a thief can sit in the corner of a map away from all mobs and players and stay invisible forever while be completely useless.
Also keep in mind, a thief in stealth cannot capture points in s/tpvp or wvwvw. a perma stealth thief literally does nothing except reveal his position every 8 seconds with blackpowder, shadow refuge, or smokescreen (protip, drop all your aoe there)
I don’t quite understand the point of this post. There are so many variables at play here that aren’t given any attention. The most obvious detail might be the builds, traits and utilities. Secondly, you base your conclusions off of subjective play over a simple one minute period. Give us many, many more details, and then let’s talk. Until then, there’s little point in discussing this.
And as a side note, with specific traits and sometimes the help of utitilies, a thief can permanently be stealthed, but they have to continually be active in order to achieve this. I don’t see how this could be unintended since it’s so easy to do for anyone who knows this class, and I assume the devs knew that.
This topic seems more like a thief complaint thread, thieves aren’t overpowered, and you can spy on enemy zergs without a thief, I do it on my ele and they don’t notice me. Your also basing the numbers off of your builds, so it’s not entirely accurate. I don’t heal for 60k on my ele.
This is the exact reason warriors can’t tank, and you only see viable builds involving some sort of DPS and/or condition stats. We only have one heal on a very slow cooldown, cannot give ourselves protection without there being some randomness factor, and we only have 2 condition removals, one of which is a heal. Our class isn’t built to last long fights like these above mentioned classes. I do think you’re forgetting heal-based guardians as well.
All in all, my biggest point is that in that minute that those other classes are able to heal for that amount and a warrior is not, our only option is damage or die. Build variety, people.
Every class gets only “one” heal UNLESS they build for more. Warriors can build for more. There is a trait that lets shouts heal. There you go 3 more heals for you.
Shout heal builds were THE tanking builds for warriors until the shout nerf. Now we don’t have that as a viable build option.
Well, here are the numbers me and my friends found when testing the healing and condition removal of these classes (keep in mind that we didn’t include skills that remove all conditions for it’s effect but assumed that it only removes 1 condition).
Yeah… Methodology please. Your numbers seem screwy as kitten. Not to mention your little assumption is ridiculous. All condition removal =/= 1 condition removed.
Last statment=false
There are skills that remove all conditions.
