Guild Wars 2

I admit that 3 past topics were made when I was mentally disappointed on how playing DPS and DPS-support was the ultimate best in PvE content, open world and dungeons, even fractals.

Here’s link to my last Suggestion, from which I’ve improved the new one.
Suggestion-Old-PvE-Content
Any other topic past this one has no relevance, tho they contain very insightful thoughts, except ones by Ayrilana.1396, who tried to retort topic off the rails.

Suggestion is about updating PvE content, mainly “Zhaitan Campaing” (Same meaning as GW1 “Prophecies”, “Factions”, “Nightfall” and “EotN”, means specific content that came with each sold “box”), which suffers from what I call “Universal mob Design”, that consists about 90-99% of the mobs in GW2.

The release of Dry Top expanded mob variety to common mobs, while Southsun Cove introduced heavy boon using mobs. These are quite the exception from “Universal mob Design”…

Problem is not the skills being underpowered, game balance is different matter, the real problem is the mobs that don’t present targets for the “underpowered” skills.

I’ve played alot of Support and CC roles in PvE, basing on experience, and every time I was the “almost useless member of the group”.

Flaw of this “Universal mob Design”, is that mobs always have “High HP-Spike DMG-0 Armor”, are super slow (attack once every 2-5 seconds) and possess insignificant abilities.
Could call it “THE SUPER EASY MODE”.

Even ranks have a flaw: no rank, Veteran and Elites are “Trash mobs” (Vets and Elites are not special rank as one would believe), while Champ and above are bosses.

The weakness of “Universal mob Design” is that mobs are most vulnerable to Direct Damage source, which consists majority of Direct Damage builds, DPS and DPS-support.
Playing other than DPS and DPS-support, is like you want to be the almost useless member of the group.

Also that the “Universal mob Design” doesn’t use the Combat system fully, there are alot of cases where you don’t have to use mobility, dodge or even utility skills to kill some “trash mobs” and even Boss mobs…

Points on how the “Universal mob Design” reduces builds usefulness, other than DPS and DPS-support:

• Conditions, while conditions deal damage through armor, but has a catch that the mob must actually stay alive during the combat for the conditions to deal damage, which they don’t, as berserkers and other Direct damage builds will kill in 1-2 seconds.
  Thus Conditions barely did little damage.
  Another problem is that this forces conditions to be used on stronger foes that don’t die super quick, mainly Champs and higher boss mobs, this will reduce the number of targets against which conditions could be used, to the Limited set of Targets.

• Control, even if one can stop their foes from performing actions, what mobs have abilities that are best to stop, that is the Champs and higher ranks, since Veterans and Elites are “trash mobs”. Do note, problem isn’t fully on Unshakable and Defiance, it’s partly on the lack of abilities that mobs could use.
  Like Conditions, Control has very limited set of targets. Open PvE, Unshakable will make Hard Control effects useless, due to scale up and to prevent players from Stun-locking the mob (Still it’s an essential design, atleast with current designs). In dungeons, same problem of Limited set of Targets, as Veterans and Elites are “trash mobs” with insignificant abilities and pose very little threat.

• Healing, healing has it’s uses, like to speed up recovery and to lower pressure on players and allow their own healing and other abilities the time to recharge without forcing them to retreat and stop dealing damage. Unfortunately, due to “Universal mob Design”, there’s never a mob that actually creates situation where additional healing could be useful, again the number of targets is limited to Champs and above, since “trash mobs” don’t possess abilities like Area Denial or DoT.
  Again, like Conditions and Control, the problem of Limited set of Targets, due to the large number of “trash mobs” in the mob roster.

• Boon/Condition manipulation, these are here to turn battle over in user’s side favor, remove boons from foes, conditions from allies, convert boons, transfer conditions, steal boons and etc.
  Unfortunately, mobs that actually utilize conditions and boons with great effect, are Champs and above, again it’s Limited set of Targets.

Reviewing GW2 Trinity. Yes, GW2 has Trinity of it’s own, but “Universal mob Design” makes 2 of them pretty much useless in majority of content.

• DPS can provide Support and Control, but they focus on DPS, while effects of Support and Control are less potent. This is DPS role.
• Support can deal Damage and Control, but they focus on Support, while effects of Damage and Control are less potent. This is Support role.
• Control can deal Damage and provide Support, but they focus on Control, while effects of Damage and Support are less potent. This is Control role.

If more mobs were to have (But remember that you can STILL kill these mobs with any build you desire to use, even if they have abilities from below):

• Heavy Armor, which reduces effectiviness of Direct Damage, like Mordrem Husks and Partially Digested Husks. These mobs won’t die as fast as “Universal Design mob”, thus giving more opportunities for other builds, depending on the mob’s abilities, but Conditions would be very effective against them. Still, players can use full berserker if they want to, but have to prepare for long combat scenario.
• Area Denial, which reduces effectiviness of “stand-still-and-11111” tactics, as these types of abilities also don’t utilize spike dmg, they offer opportunities for Healing, Control and Boons/Conditions. Of course, Area Denial needs some fine tuning, to find the lvl which every player can overcome with their own reactions and abilities.
• DoT, which creates pressure on players, Healing, Control and Condition manipulation could reduce this pressure. Players can go on against them as normal and win, with DPS build, but if there’s a Support or Control build player present, results will be somewhat different.
• Buffer, these would change how nearby mobs perform, adding more damage to attacks or defense against dmg. This doesn’t need to be that strong tho, can be “avoided” until the boon runs out, use Control abilities to prevent application or bring Boon manipulation skills into builds.
• Ranks, if updated correctly, no-rank would remain easy to kill “trash mobs”, while Veterans and Elites could be given toned down abilities that some Boss mobs possess, thus spreading the threat level evenly into every mob in the scenario. Champion and above ranks would still be used as “boss mob” ranks, but they won’t be the singular target that builds, other than DPS and DPS-support, are useful against.

Note: Still remember that you can use any build and win, even if mobs were to possess abilities from above.

Finally, I’m NOT asking for “Forced Roles” like the “Holy Trinity” games always have.

Builds that fall into Support and Control cannot create results as majority mobs are “trash mobs” and their only targets are the singular boss monsters that don’t die too quick.

“Play how I want” concept is relevant in this suggestion, you can play any build or role you want and win, even if mobs possess variety, but atleast Support and Control role builds would create results with this, rather what they do now.

Also about content difficulty, this is not suggestion to make content “1-hit-you’re-dead” or even “Hardcore”. What change would affect tho, is that it would move difficulty from “THE SUPER EASY MODE” into “Easy” difficulty (Again it will require fine tuning to find the lvl which every player can do universally).

Simply to remove the “Universal mob Design” from majority of mobs, mainly from mobs with rank Veteran and Elite, spread the threat among them (Veteran, Elite, Champion), not focus it on singular boss monster. Of course, Legendary and Epic bosses would have their unique abilities, that are more powerful than Champions.

Solo content can be understood to use quite alot of Trash mobs, but there are few times where mobs are actually abit more challenging.
Well, this is mainly about Group content, Dungeon and Open world.

Have you been to Orr, ever? Pretty much all of the mobs there give conditions, some have area-denial, lots with aoes (pbaoes and ranged/targetted). Of course none of this matters if ur a zerker warrior as the mobs don’t have enough toughness to last more than a couple of seconds.

Funky.4861:

Have you been to Orr, ever? Pretty much all of the mobs there give conditions, some have area-denial, lots with aoes (pbaoes and ranged/targetted). Of course none of this matters if ur a zerker warrior as the mobs don’t have enough toughness to last more than a couple of seconds.

I’ve been on Orr, over and over again, don’t even need to dodge majority of their attacks, except when HP is below 25%, if I play full berserker warrior with only selfish DPS utilities.

Even if some use boons, it doesn’t matter if they applied boons on themselves, as they don’t have abilities to make use of the boons and that they attack very slow.

Of course I don’t try to solo Champs tho.

Those mobs don’t do good job at dealing damage or even creating combat situation, even use of Retaliation against these mobs is waste of DPS potential, since the mobs attack every 2-5 seconds.

During Group events, only the very very few Elites and Champs are targets for use of Healing, Control, Conditions and Boon/Condition manipulation. “Trash mobs”, they die too quickly for anything else other than Direct Dmg DPS or DPS-support.
Example: I can’t deal more than 5-10% with condition dmg, since Berserkers slaughter them all, not allowing the conditions to deal damage.

Also that IF I play some other build, which isn’t DPS or DPS-support, I’m not creating results to match DPS or DPS-support, only being “the almost useless of the group” every time.

Lets take Necromancer:
Whole profession is designed for Attrition combat, they have limited options for Direct DMG.

Unfortunately, mobs in PvE, don’t use enough Boons or Conditions for Necromancer to be effective.
Neither does the mobs have abilities to keep themselves alive from Direct DMG, so necromancers main DMG source is useless.

God, this thread again? Why are you posting a new one every week?

@oxtred

He posts it because the PvE is a piece of crap right now.It needs huge revamp.From better telegraphed animations to everything else that OP posted.I like his ideas a lot.

Just compare how detailed are Wildstar Animations to GW2….The comparison is just ridiculous.
Also compare the mechanics of the Wurm and Tequatl to every raid boss in Wildstar…GW2 is just patheticly behind.
Why do i compare those two games?Because they both are action oriented.Nothing that one has the holy trinity and the other doesn’t.

At this moment everything can be dodged and there is no need of interrupts in PvE.Anet have to think for some way to add interrupting as a viable mechanic.For instant those instant killing attacks that some mobs have.Let them be interuptable.Also make them more frequent so people have to work together for removing the defiance and timing the next interrupt if they don’t they don’t want to die.

oxtred.7658:

God, this thread again? Why are you posting a new one every week?

Maybe to fix PVE after 2 years cause it is crap right now ?

Yeah, and why do you need to open 3 different threads about this? Especially when people took the time to explain why your suggestions lack experience? Pve has flaws, but certainly not in the case of CCs, support, or telegraphed animations ( part of an action rpg) ..

oxtred.7658:

God, this thread again? Why are you posting a new one every week?

Because last one was filled with one person trying to retort the whole thing off.

Because, now the suggestion aims to remove the “Trash mob” status from majority mobs, especially from Veterans and Elite mobs, spread the threat potential evenly to Veterans, Elites and Champions, instead of focusing all that abilities, heavily simplified, only on Champions and above.

By giving Veteran and Elites toned down abilities of Champs, we get more results with Healing, Control, Conditions and Boon/Condition manipulations, they really would be “optional”, rather than being eternal bottom feeders, since their good targets are limited to Champions and higher mobs on every group content in “Zhaitan Campaing”.

Why use Healing, Control, Conditions or Boon/Condition manipulations, when you can do better with full berserker team. That doesn’t give us optionality.

Except on Dry Top and Southsun Cove…

Well, I’d stop posting these topics, if I’d get clarifications from ANet employee.

I agree with giving veterans and above more abilities. However, consider that doing so in dungeons will enforce skipping, since fighting a mob with powerful abilities is a waste of time if there’s no drop tied to it. Look at arah, where most elites are far more powerful than in other dungeons: we just skip them. If we have to scale up elites, loots should be scaled up as well.

Now for the 2nd part, berserker teams use support, control, conditions, and boon manipulation if needed. It’s not tied to gear, that’s all. Do you want some kind of power/prec/ stun duration gear? It’ wont help. If support isn’t tied to gear, the best way to go for speedruns is berserker. That’s not a bad thing, it makes the game more fast paced.

FrostSpectre.4198:

• DPS can provide support and Control, but they focus solely on DPS, while effects of Control and Support are less potent. This is DPS role.
• Support can deal damage and Control, but they focus solely on Support, while effects of DPS and Control are less potent. This is Support role.
• Control can deal damage and provide support, but they focus solely on Control, while effects of DPS and Support are less potent. This is Control role.

And here is where you keep “doin’ it wrong.”

You keep insisting on a set “role” for any given player, and that’s completely not the point of GW2’s combat system. You are expected, at any given time, to be DPS, Support, AND control, depending on the situation. I suspect that’s why you see the scaling of stats where they are (why Healing Power impacts self-healing far more than healing others). They don’t want, for example, “support” guardians or “control” guardians. Just guardians, doing all three.

Now, you are correct that the “vanilla” content stumbles in providing challenges that require any given person to use all three roles at once, especially in the vast mobs that can form. I don’t think they’re going to spend resources going back and revamping all of it though. That would be a much larger undertaking than you think.

chemiclord.3978:

FrostSpectre.4198:

• DPS can provide support and Control, but they focus solely on DPS, while effects of Control and Support are less potent. This is DPS role.
• Support can deal damage and Control, but they focus solely on Support, while effects of DPS and Control are less potent. This is Support role.
• Control can deal damage and provide support, but they focus solely on Control, while effects of DPS and Support are less potent. This is Control role.

And here is where you keep “doin’ it wrong.”

You keep insisting on a set “role” for any given player, and that’s completely not the point of GW2’s combat system. You are expected, at any given time, to be DPS, Support, AND control, depending on the situation. I suspect that’s why you see the scaling of stats where they are (why Healing Power impacts self-healing far more than healing others). They don’t want, for example, “support” guardians or “control” guardians. Just guardians, doing all three.

I don’t know where you get the “insisting on set roles”, no, I’m insisting giving more variety, which are not dominated by “single type build”, Direct Dmg oriented builds, many of them, but all focus on Direct Dmg.
By removing dominating position from 1 type of build, other builds atleast create results, than what they do now, as I’ve pointed out many times and repeated how “Play how I want” is relevant part of it, you can play any build and win, even in group content, open world or dungeon.
But atleast some builds will not be like “The almost useless member of the group”.

However, you do play specific role, no matter what, but have some aspects of other roles put into it for additional functionalities, if you choose to do so, but still, you’d focus most resources on the role relevant “Primary Attributes”, to which the build aims for.

So there you have it, roles, simply by focusing your resources on desired attributes.

Healer-Boon-Conjure Support cleric staff elementalist can easily provide long duration boons and DPS with Conjures (Common build that I use with my Elementalist, mainly during Teq and Claw, where my healing affects the results), thus I used Healing as “Primary Attribute”, Support role so to speak.

But the damage output will not be up to par with DPS berserker staff elementalist with Glyph of Storm and same Conjures and self-survival, which is using Direct Damage as “Primary Attribute”, DPS role so to speak.

Same thing for DPS and DPS-support, DPS focuses most of it’s abilities on own survival and DPS in mind, while DPS-supports bring support related skills to help others, by damage or survival, unfortunately DPS-support has to sacrifice some DPS in favor of stronger Support effects, if they want to tho.

Example:
DPS berserker warrior GS/Mace-Shield with Berserker’s Power and Forceful Greatsword traits, that just took all banners and didn’t put points on Tactics to provide small boosts to stats but did it so that they cannot equip skills that could help on their own survival

compared to

DPS-support berserker warrior GS/XXX-Warhorn with Phalanx Strength and Forceful Greatsword trait and banners so that it can cure some conditions and provide Might, Swiftness and Vigor, along with banner boosts with larger AoE, longer duration and less downtime due to Trait in Tactics.

Unfortunately, DPS-support warrior will deal less dmg than DPS warrior…

The Dps warrior will also do more support.

./thread

FrostSpectre.4198:

Funky.4861:

Have you been to Orr, ever? Pretty much all of the mobs there give conditions, some have area-denial, lots with aoes (pbaoes and ranged/targetted). Of course none of this matters if ur a zerker warrior as the mobs don’t have enough toughness to last more than a couple of seconds.

I’ve been on Orr, over and over again, don’t even need to dodge majority of their attacks, except when HP is below 25%, if I play full berserker warrior with only selfish DPS utilities.

Even if some use boons, it doesn’t matter if they applied boons on themselves, as they don’t have abilities to make use of the boons and that they attack very slow.

Of course I don’t try to solo Champs tho.

Those mobs don’t do good job at dealing damage or even creating combat situation, even use of Retaliation against these mobs is waste of DPS potential, since the mobs attack every 2-5 seconds.

During Group events, only the very very few Elites and Champs are targets for use of Healing, Control, Conditions and Boon/Condition manipulation. “Trash mobs”, they die too quickly for anything else other than Direct Dmg DPS or DPS-support.
Example: I can’t deal more than 5-10% with condition dmg, since Berserkers slaughter them all, not allowing the conditions to deal damage.

Also that IF I play some other build, which isn’t DPS or DPS-support, I’m not creating results to match DPS or DPS-support, only being “the almost useless of the group” every time.

Lets take Necromancer:
Whole profession is designed for Attrition combat, they have limited options for Direct DMG.

Unfortunately, mobs in PvE, don’t use enough Boons or Conditions for Necromancer to be effective.
Neither does the mobs have abilities to keep themselves alive from Direct DMG, so necromancers main DMG source is useless.

Hate to tell you this but actually GW2 doesn’t have a trinity. healing CC are both completely useless.

Oh and Engineer are also designed to be attrition combat and CC mostly which is why necros/engis are the weakest and least played in PVE so there is no balance, not sure where you thought they balanced these classes properly LOL

oxtred.7658:

The Dps warrior will also do more support.

./thread

GW2 Trinity means that you choose one of the three, Damage, Control or Support, after this, you start to use the resources you have to create a build, you put in some of the other roles into the mix, eventually you have a build of some design, but follows one of the three possible roles, since resources were put into that set of “Primary Attributes”.

Actually, to be correct, we would call DPS-support, either as Support or DPS, but not “DPS-support”, depending on the chosen “Primary Attributes”.

Should player focus resources on high dmg output, but still brings few support oriented skills, that warrior is not Support or even “DPS-support”, it’s only DPS.

Like-vise, should player focus resources on support oriented traits and skills, this is still not “DPS-support”, but a Support, since player concentrated resources on having more potent support abilities and sacrificed some damage output doing so.

(Although “DPS-support” will be more clear name for damage boosting Support, as rest of the Support role in general is in complete disuse, along with Control builds.)

tigirius.9014:

Hate to tell you this but actually GW2 doesn’t have a trinity. healing CC are both completely useless.

Oh and Engineer are also designed to be attrition combat and CC mostly which is why necros/engis are the weakest and least played in PVE so there is no balance, not sure where you thought they balanced these classes properly LOL

I never did say that they were balanced properly, don’t know where you started thought that…

Hate to tell you this, but actually GW2 does have a Trinity, problem lies on the bad design choice, “Universal mob Design”, which means vast majority of mobs are over-simplified for sake of “Play how I want” concept. ANet could have used better way, but they chose this, which also creates the “standard” of GW2 content, this is mostly uphold by a branch of the community, meaning players who cannot play GW2 correctly and have complaints on newer content, especially about Mordrem, being too hard and don’t allow “no dodge, stand still and 11111 FTW” tactic.

Engineers are Jack of All Trades, master of none, but possess “Condition burst” capabilities. So yeah, they cannot create high caliber Direct Damage and so on.

Well, I hoped that ANet would update the mobs at some point, not gonna be early that’s for sure, like with GW1, some skills got updated to work better near the end of it’s development cycle…

It would be nice if there were some clarifications from ANet tho, regarding this issue.

Well, gotta stop remaking this topic over and over again within short time span. Propably better to remake it after half a year or even later.

FrostSpectre.4198:

oxtred.7658:

God, this thread again? Why are you posting a new one every week?

Because last one was filled with one person trying to retort the whole thing off.

Because, now the suggestion aims to remove the “Trash mob” status from majority mobs, especially from Veterans and Elite mobs, spread the threat potential evenly to Veterans, Elites and Champions, instead of focusing all that abilities, heavily simplified, only on Champions and above.

By giving Veteran and Elites toned down abilities of Champs, we get more results with Healing, Control, Conditions and Boon/Condition manipulations, they really would be “optional”, rather than being eternal bottom feeders, since their good targets are limited to Champions and higher mobs on every group content in “Zhaitan Campaing”.

Why use Healing, Control, Conditions or Boon/Condition manipulations, when you can do better with full berserker team. That doesn’t give us optionality.

Except on Dry Top and Southsun Cove…

Well, I’d stop posting these topics, if I’d get clarifications from ANet employee.

Now you do realize people don’t want elite and veteran mobs to be stronger if the rewards they drop aren’t better right?

You want to revamp the entire game – and make PVE more " difficult " and " exciting " but here’s the catch – unless you make it more rewarding overall players won’t want it.

Sure you – and a few others might like it better but ultimately there has to be a direct relation between effort and reward in order for a MMO to feel satisfying to play and GW2 is already lacking in this area.

*Look at Arah mobs and realize how much the community wants a “challenge” in fighting them. Unless you make it worth people’s time to kill them you can create a masterpiece in mob design and nobody will touch it. *

Look at champions – champ bags were a reason to do the champs back when they first came out – they gave skins that sold for a lot.
Champs are almost worthless to kill now – no way will it be worth your time to tackle a champ unless you’ve got at least 10+ people backing you up.

Also – regarding Support – we already have that in game.
I ran FOTM today – two runs – 40 and 50. There was a LOT of DPS in our groups but we did very poorly because the composition did not have enough support. Once we brought it we were fine.

You keep mentioning that " direct damage builds" dominate but the only thing we dominated in FOTM today was the floors.

So I spent about 2+ hours in fractals on top of the usual run times because we didn’t have enough support and you come here and tell me that support isn’t a thing in GW2? I find that hard to believe.

But just for the sake of argument – define support as you see it – because from where I’m looking it is definitely in the game.

Also if you think that " almost useless member of the group " position will ever disappear you’re just fooling yourself. There’s always going to be room for “that guy”.

Also I might be wrong but I came to the game with the idea that the GW2 trinity meant you’d be doing all 3 things at once. Not just focusing on one of them – but being all of them. At the same time.

And it works – In FOTM today I was dropping banners to boost my teammates and ressing them ( support) while also killing the mob ( Damage ) and also controlling its movements through cripple and pin down ( Control). I was doing all 3 of these things at the same time in the same fight.

I know the game isn’t where you’d personally want it to be but if you think it’ll be revamped just for you …I have some bad news.

So you’re telling me that banners and might aren’t support? Warriors are meta because they excel in offensive support, not because their dps is over the top. A full signet warrior is useless, because he focuses on dps instead of offensive support.

Harper.4173:

Now you do realize people don’t want elite and veteran mobs to be stronger if the rewards they drop aren’t better right?

You want to revamp the entire game – and make PVE more " difficult " and " exciting " but here’s the catch – unless you make it more rewarding overall players won’t want it.

Sure you – and a few others might like it better but ultimately there has to be a direct relation between effort and reward in order for a MMO to feel satisfying to play and GW2 is already lacking in this area.

*Look at Arah mobs and realize how much the community wants a “challenge” in fighting them. Unless you make it worth people’s time to kill them you can create a masterpiece in mob design and nobody will touch it. *

Look at champions – champ bags were a reason to do the champs back when they first came out – they gave skins that sold for a lot.
Champs are almost worthless to kill now – no way will it be worth your time to tackle a champ unless you’ve got at least 10+ people backing you up.

Also – regarding Support – we already have that in game.
I ran FOTM today – two runs – 40 and 50. There was a LOT of DPS in our groups but we did very poorly because the composition did not have enough support. Once we brought it we were fine.

You keep mentioning that " direct damage builds" dominate but the only thing we dominated in FOTM today was the floors.

So I spent about 2+ hours in fractals on top of the usual run times because we didn’t have enough support and you come here and tell me that support isn’t a thing in GW2? I find that hard to believe.

But just for the sake of argument – define support as you see it – because from where I’m looking it is definitely in the game.

Also if you think that " almost useless member of the group " position will ever disappear you’re just fooling yourself. There’s always going to be room for “that guy”.

Also I might be wrong but I came to the game with the idea that the GW2 trinity meant you’d be doing all 3 things at once. Not just focusing on one of them – but being all of them. At the same time.

And it works – In FOTM today I was dropping banners to boost my teammates and ressing them ( support) while also killing the mob ( Damage ) and also controlling its movements through cripple and pin down ( Control). I was doing all 3 of these things at the same time in the same fight.

I know the game isn’t where you’d personally want it to be but if you think it’ll be revamped just for you …I have some bad news.

Still, you focus the resources you have on specific stats and effects, this is where role is defined, focus on dealing damage makes you DPS role, focus on support effects (damage and others) makes you Support role, focus on control effects makes you Control role. Role is always defined by the most focused stats and effects, everything is extra, having varied results depending on how much resources you poured into it at expense of other stats and abilities…

And yes, because of the 90% Trash mobs, it’s become “Standard of the mob” for the player base. Unfortunately we will never get full use of all combat mechanics, Healing, Control, DoT and Boon/Condition Manipulation because of these.
Since as I’ve pointed out already, there are no targets to use them against…

This is what impedes idea of balanced Threat lvl and usability of specific abilities in PvE.
We have no use of them, unless we go only PvP…

Being “The almost useless member of the group” does include anyone without DPS related builds right now. Not enough DPS, you’re useless in majority of content, since nothing is making it hard as it’s supposed to be in the first place. Yes it will never dissappear, but it extents too much on Support and Control, since these cannot create results while DPS can wipe out everything before anything starts happening…

Fractals, they’re unfortunately content that doesn’t either use that much variety, majority use the “Universal mob Design”, no matter the difficulty level. Higher lvl of Fractals is pretty much same mobs but with higher numbers and higher ranks along with the Fractal specific special effects of that difficulty lvl, which creates the opening that majority of Support and Control roles should have had in everywhere else.
Another no about Fractals, is that they’re pretty much too “optional” content, because of the hard requirement of Ascended gear at 11+… (Although I’m also saddened that Agony has been made exclusive to that, Mursaat are either forgotten completely or they’re written off to die in the background, without giving us the access there…)

Even though GW1 is different game of design and it’s forced roles “Holy Trinity”, at very least playing any build would create results accordingly, since mobs used abilities and effects that players could affect…

FrostSpectre.4198:

chemiclord.3978:

And here is where you keep “doin’ it wrong.”

You keep insisting on a set “role” for any given player, and that’s completely not the point of GW2’s combat system. You are expected, at any given time, to be DPS, Support, AND control, depending on the situation. I suspect that’s why you see the scaling of stats where they are (why Healing Power impacts self-healing far more than healing others). They don’t want, for example, “support” guardians or “control” guardians. Just guardians, doing all three.

I don’t know where you get the “insisting on set roles”, no, I’m insisting giving more variety, which are not dominated by “single type build”, Direct Dmg oriented builds, many of them, but all focus on Direct Dmg.

By removing dominating position from 1 type of build, other builds atleast create results, than what they do now, as I’ve pointed out many times and repeated how “Play how I want” is relevant part of it, you can play any build and win, even in group content, open world or dungeon.

But atleast some builds will not be like “The almost useless member of the group”.

Well, yes. While you may not think that’s what you’re asking for, it is. Why do I say this?

1. It’s currently possible to complete all group content with either a meta composition or an anything goes composition. The meta composition is more efficient, because … well, that’s what meta is. Despite being able to build how you want, you’re not happy.
2. You want greater efficiency for “lower damage builds” in the meta. However, lower damage builds are not going to be accepted as part of any meta unless the game design requires them for either efficiency or for flat out being able to complete the content. Thus, they will be required, either: in peoples’ minds, just as some groups believe now that you need a guardian or two for high level FotM; or flat out necessary, just as in trinity games you need a tank and healer.

GW2 was not designed so that a player could, in PvE, expect to both lock themselves into a single build and attain maximum efficiency. I’d like to see someone demonstrate how you’re going to force meta/efficiency players to accept lower damage builds without making them required. So far, no one has.

So you’ve reduced your complaint down to “Anet can we not have completely useless builds?” Which, I think we can all agree would be nice, but you have yet to realize is not likely to happen, no matter how many times you re-post this.