DEEP SALVAGE: Underwater Combat

DEEP SALVAGE: Underwater Combat

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Erasmus.1624

Erasmus.1624

Not many seem to like it. Devs have been removing it bit by bit in order to sweep their mistakes under the rug. And yet despite this, underwater combat—due to its genuine embrace of a true 3D environment which incorporates all three directional axes—has so much untapped combat potential that ignoring it would be a colossal design blunder (especially considering a possible Bubbles the underwater dragon expansion).

By consolidating and re-balancing the underwater weapon options along with the addition of a very specific theoretical targeting mechanic, underwater combat could rival and surpass ground combat in terms of player engagement and fostering a legitimate skill ceiling.


  • Tool tip description reads: “Channel to increase attack distance.”
  • Mechanic combines the trebuchet fire mechanic with GTAoE placement and allows for player-targeted AoEs underwater. These types of attacks are flat GTAoEs which move along the player’s current x-axis (projected out from the center of the player’kittenbox; means that the player will be able to aim the x-axis by rotating normally and changing one’s facing direction). The location of the GTAoE placement along the x-axis is marked by a green sphere that travels out from the player while the player holds down the related skill’s bound key. A decent travel speed for this target marker would be around 600 range/s. If the marker reaches the skills maximum range, the skill automatically activates; as soon as the player releases the button at any time along the sphere’s maximum range path, the AoE is placed at that location.
  • This mechanic’s channel is separate from an associated skill’s cast time. Upon releasing the channel, a skill with this mechanic will then execute its normal cast-time and place its AoE at the location determined by the player’s initial channel.
  • Although not featured in this document, this sort of mechanic would be applicable to many other current underwater, target-bound AoE skills already present in the game.

  • New unique debuff: Drowning
  • Drowning stacks in intensity and cannot be removed by standard condition removal.
  • Only specific skills (as stated in tool-tips) inflict the Drowning debuff. This debuff can only be applied to downed players (the skills that inflict Drowning will not apply the debuff to non-downed players if they successfully hit).
  • Drowning can only be applied to downed players and if a downed player revives back to regular status, he/she loses all current Drowning stacks.
  • Once a downed player has 5 stacks of Drowning, he/she will instantly die if underwater. Downed players can have 5 stacks of Drowning and live if they are somehow allowed to remain floating at the surface, gaining health.

  • [Bandage]’s (Underwater downed state 4) initial pulse now also removes 2 stacks of Drowning.
  • Base movement speed while underwater increased by 25%
  • Professions now only have access to a single underwater weapon.
  • The weapon swap button remains on classes that have it solely as a button to trigger sigils.

(edited by Erasmus.1624)

DEEP SALVAGE: Underwater Combat

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Erasmus.1624

= MESMER SPEAR =


[Illusion Spear] (1a)
Cast-time: ½ s

  • Strike your foe with a ranged illusory spear.
  • Damage: (0.3)
  • Range: 450
    • “Mesmer pink” spear projectile

[Illusion Lance] (1b)
Cast-time: ½ s

  • Strike your foe with a ranged illusory spear.
  • Damage: (0.3)
  • Range: 450
    • “Mesmer pink” spear projectile

[Blink Lance] (1c)
Cast-time: 1 s

  • Strike foes directly and then teleport backward. This attack drowns foes.
  • Damage: (1.2)
  • Range: 150
  • Backward teleport range: 300
  • Drowning (3): 4 s
    • The teleport only occurs if the player successfully strikes a target.
    • This attack will continue to autocast until it hits a foe or chains back to its starting skill just like any other autoattack chain skill.

[Afterimage] (2)
Cast-time: 1 s; Recharge: 5 s

  • Gain super speed and perform a powerful spinning attack. A successful hit grants you additional super speed; a successful hit also reduces this skill’s recharge for each illusion you have active.
  • Initial super speed: ½ s
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Damage: (1.65)
  • Hit super speed: 1 s
  • Recharge reduction per active illusion: 25%
  • Combo Finisher: Whirl
  • Radius: 180
    • Both conditional bonuses only trigger once per skill use regardless of the number of foes struck.
    • The initial super speed is gained at the very beginning of the skill’s activation before the attack cast-time and animation begin.

[Feigned Surge] (3a)
Cast-time: 1¾ s; Recharge: 5 s

  • Surge forward, attacking foes in front of you.
  • Number of targets: 3
  • Number of impacts: 9
  • Damage per impact: (0.15)
  • Combo Finisher: Leap
  • Range: 900

[Feign] (3b)

  • Teleport back to your starting point and leave behind a clone.
  • Range: 1200
    • Clones created by [Feigned Surge] and [Feign] cast [Illusion Spear].

[Phantasmal Undertow] (4)
Cast-time: 1 s; Recharge: 20 s

  • Create an illusion which surges forward at your target.
  • Number of targets: 3
  • Number of impacts: 9
  • Damage per impact: (0.4)
  • Combo Finisher: Leap
  • Range: 900
    • Uses the [Phantasmal Mariner] model; AI unit executes a copy of [Feigned Surge] with modified damage coefficients; skill use every 7 seconds.

[Slipstream] (5a)
Cast-time: 0; Recharge: 20 s

  • Create a current in front of you that grants super speed to allies and pushes back foes that enter it.
  • Super speed: 4 s
  • Knock back: 100
  • Duration: 4 s
    • The super speed is only granted once per player.
    • This skill chains into another upon cast completion: [Vortex].

[Vortex] (5b)
Cast-time: 1¼ s

  • Collapse your slipstream into a vortex which pulls in nearby foes then damages and cripples them.
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Initial pull radius: 600
  • Damage pulses (4): every 1 s
  • Damage per pulse: (0.7)
  • Crippled per pulse: 2 s
  • Duration: 5 s
  • Radius: 240
  • Combo Field: Etheral
    • This skill now inflicts a single, initial AoE pull instead of pulsing an AoE pull every second. This skill’s damage pulses begin at the end of the first second and continue to pulse at the end of each second for its duration.

(edited by Erasmus.1624)

DEEP SALVAGE: Underwater Combat

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Posted by: Erasmus.1624

Erasmus.1624

= RANGER SPEAR=


[Stab] (1a)
Cast-time: ½ s

  • Stab your foe.
  • Damage: (0.5)
  • Range: 150

[Jab] (1b)
Cast-time: ¾ s

  • Jab your foe.
  • Damage: (0.5)
  • Range: 150

[Dart] (1c)
Cast-time: ¾ s

  • Dart forward a short distance, striking and bleeding foes in your path.
  • Number of targets: 3
  • Number of impacts: 3
  • Damage per impact: (0.4)
  • Bleeding (1) per impact: 5 s
  • Range: 300
    • Mesmer [Feigned Surge] shortened to 300 range.

[Coral Spear] (2)
Cast-time: 3 s

  • Build sharp coral onto a piercing spear to throw at foes. The longer you channel this skill, the more bleeding it inflicts on impact when you release it. This attack drowns foes.
  • Damage: (0.5)
  • Channel time per stage: ½ s
  • Stage 1 bleeding: 7 s
  • Stage 2 bleeding (2): 7 s
  • Stage 3 bleeding (3): 7 s
  • Stage 4 bleeding (4): 7 s; Drowning (5): 2 s
  • Stage 4 Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
  • Pierces
  • Range: 1200
    • Has a base cast-time of ¾ s which if released immediately will inflict 1 stack of bleeding which lasts for 7 seconds; channeling beyond this will increase the bleeding by one stack every ½ of channel.
    • This skill’s bar and mechanic are taken directly from the Snowball Mayhem Scout [Sniper Shot]. The strike “channel time per stage” parameters are mainly placeholders. If it would be easier to just swap out “makes projectile fire faster” code with “inflicts more bleeding” code, then that would be fine.
    • The player can still move while channeling this skill.

[Swirling Strike] (3)
Cast-time: ¾ s; Recharge: 10 s

  • Attack while reflecting projectiles.
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Damage: (0.55)
  • Projectile reflection: 1½ s
  • Combo Finisher: Whirl
  • Range: 150

[Man O’ War] (4)
Cast-time: 1½ s; Recharge: 10 s

  • Lose super speed and deliver a series of strikes that weaken and poison foes in front of you; these strikes immobilize blind foes.
  • Number of targets: 3
  • Strikes (4): every ¼ s
  • Damage per strike: (0.4)
  • Poison per strike: 4 s
  • Weakness per strike: ¾ s
  • Immobilize per strike vs blind foes: 1 s
  • Bleeding stack threshold: 8
  • Threshold final strike bonus damage: 300%
  • Range: 150
    • The player can now move while casting this skill.

[Ink Blast] (5)
Cast-time: ½ s; Recharge: 18 s

  • Release a cloud of blinding ink; gain super speed.
  • Super speed: 4 s
  • Cloud pulses (3): every 1 s
  • Blind per pulse: 1 s
  • Duration: 3 s
  • Radius: 240
  • Combo Finisher: Blast
    • This skill still uses the same ink cloud field effect that it does now; the adjusted field duration will match better with the actual duration of the visual cue.

(edited by Erasmus.1624)

DEEP SALVAGE: Underwater Combat

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Erasmus.1624

= NECROMANCER SPEAR =


[Cruel Strike] (1a)
Cast-time: ½ s

  • Stab your foe.
  • Damage: (0.55)
  • Range: 150

[Wicked Strike] (1b)
Cast-time: ¾ s

  • Strike your foe again.
  • Damage: (0.55)
  • Range: 150

[Reaper’s Scythe] (1c)
Cast-time: 1 s

  • Number of targets: 5
  • Reap life force from nearby foes.
  • Damage: (1.3)
  • Life force per strike: 1.5%
  • Combo Finisher: Whirl
  • Radius: 180

[Wicked Spiral] (2)
Cast-time: 1¾ s; Recharge: 4 s

  • Spin multiple times, dealing damage and gaining life force with every foe you strike. This attack’s final strike drowns foes.
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Strikes (3): every ½ s
  • Damage per strike: (0.45)
  • Life force per strike: 1.25%
  • Final strike drowning (4): 7 s
  • Combo Finisher: Whirl
  • Radius: 180

[Foul Current] (3)
Cast-time: 1 s; Recharge: 5 s

  • Dart forward leaving behind poisonous bubbles and striking foes along your path.
  • Number of targets: 3
  • Number of strikes: 6
  • Damage per strike: (0.1)
  • Field poison: 1 s
  • Field duration: 3 s
  • Combo Field: Poison
  • Combo Finisher: Leap
  • Range: 600

[Deadly Catch] (4)
Cast-time: ¾ s; Recharge: 20 s

  • Whirl around, throwing spears that cripple and pull foes to you.
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Damage: (0.5)
  • Crippled: 4 s
  • Pull: 600
  • Combo Finisher: Whirl
  • Range: 600

[Frozen Abyss] (5)
Cast-time: 2 s; Recharge: 20 s

  • Channel an expanding field around you that chills and applies vulnerability to foes; deals high damage when it ends.
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Field pulses (7)
  • Chilled per pulse: ½ s
  • Vulnerability (1) per pulse: 7 s
  • Ending damage: (1.8)
  • Combo Field: Blast
  • Radius: 360

= NECROMANCER DEATH SHROUD (UNDERWATER) =


[Plague Blast] (1)

  • Cast-time increased from ½ s to 1 s.
  • This skill now has an impact explosion radius of 150 units which strikes up to 3 targets.
  • This skill no longer transfers conditions.

[Dark Water] (2)
Cast-time: ½ s; Recharge: 15 s

  • Create a dark cloud of water around you that blinds and poisons foes.
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Pulses (5): every 1 s
  • Blind: 2 s
  • Poison: 4 s
  • Duration: 4 s
  • Combo Field: Dark
  • Radius: 180
    • Field pulses immediately upon creation and then once at the end of every second thereafter.

[Wave of Fear] (3)

  • Cast-time reduced from ½ s to ¼ s.
  • Recharge reduced from 25 s to 20 s.
  • Fear duration reduced from 2 s to ¾ s.

[Gathering Plague] (4)
Cast-time: 1¼ s; Recharge: 30 s

  • Cure conditions on nearby allies; gain life force and suffer bleeding and poison for each condition you cure in this way.
  • Number of allies: 5
  • Conditions drawn per ally: 2
  • Bleeding (2) per condition: 10 s
  • Poison per condition: 5 s
  • Life force per condition: 1.5%
  • Radius: 1200
    • This skill also affects the caster, guaranteeing at least 3% life force provided that the player has at least 2 conditions on him/her when this skill is activated.

[Toxic Tide] (5)
Cast-time: 1¾ s; Recharge: 30 s

  • Channel a pulsing spell. The first pulse spreads conditions on yourself to foes in the area. The second pulse cures conditions on you; gain might for each condition you cure in this way. Each pulse drowns foes.
  • Number of foes: 5
  • Pulses (2): every ¾ s
  • Pulse one conditions spread: 5
  • Pulse two conditions cured: 5
  • Might (2) per condition cured: 8 s
  • Drowning per pulse (2): 3 s
  • Radius: 600

(edited by Erasmus.1624)

DEEP SALVAGE: Underwater Combat

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Erasmus.1624

= WARRIOR SPEAR =


[Whirling Strike] (F1)
Cast-time: ¾ s; Recharge: 8 s

  • Gain super speed and strike all foes around you. Effect increases with adrenaline level.
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Damage: (1.0)
  • Level 1 super speed: ½ s
  • Level 2 super speed: 1½ s
  • Level 3 super speed: 2½ s
  • Combo Finisher: Whirl
  • Radius: 150

[Stab] (1a)
Cast-time: ½ s

  • Stab your foe.
  • Damage: (0.45)
  • Range: 150

[Jab] (1b)
Cast-time: ¾ s

  • Jab your foe.
  • Damage: (0.45)
  • Range: 150

[Brutal Thrust] (1c)
Cast-time: 1 s

  • Deliver a powerful thrust attack. This attack drowns foes.
  • Damage: (1.3)
  • Drowning (3): 5 s
  • Range: 150

[Seeking Spear] (2)
Cast-time: 1 s; Recharge: 5 s

  • Deliver a powerful thrust attack; deal bonus damage and bleed targets at or above the vulnerability stack threshold. This attack drowns foes at the vulnerability stack threshold.
  • Damage: (1.0)
  • Vulnerability stack threshold: 10
  • Threshold damage bonus: 75%
  • Threshold bleeding (6): 8 s
  • Threshold drowning (4): 2 s
  • Range: 150

[Impale] (3)
Cast-time: 1¼ s; Recharge: 5 s

  • Dash forward a short distance, impaling foes along the way; deal bonus damage and vulnerability if you have super speed.
  • Number of targets: 3
  • Number of impacts: 3
  • Damage per impact: (0.3)
  • Super speed damage bonus: 50%
  • Super speed vulnerability per strike (4): 8 s
  • Range: 300
    • Ranger [Dart] with a brief half-second wind-up.

[Leviathan’s Sweep] (4)
Cast-time: ¾ s; Recharge: 15 s

  • Deliver a flanking strike that cripples foes; gain adrenaline for each foe you strike. If you successfully strike a foe while under the effects of super speed, you also stun that foe but then lose super speed.
  • Number of targets: 3
  • Damage: (0.75)
  • Crippled: 4 s
  • Adrenaline per foe: 5
  • Super speed stun: 1 s
  • Range: 150
  • Unblockable
    • Same attack (animation and all) as current Thief [Flanking Strike] (spear skill)

[Tsunami Slash] (5)
Cast-time: 2¾ s; Recharge: 20 s

  • Spin forward and strike foes along the way.
  • Number of targets: 3
  • Strikes (12)
  • Damage per strike: (0.3)
  • Combo Finisher: Whirl
  • Range: 600

(edited by Erasmus.1624)

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= ENGINEER HARPOON GUN =


[Torpedo] (1)

  • Damage coefficient increased from (0.6) to (0.7).
  • Damage radius increased from 120 to 150.
  • No longer tracks a target.

[Scatter Mines] (2a)

  • Cast-time increased from ¼ s to ½ s.
  • Recharge reduced from 12 s to 4 s.

[Detonate Mines] (2b)

  • This skill now has a 1-second recharge imposed upon it after the player uses [Scatter Mines].

[Timed Charge] (3)
Cast-time: ½ s; Recharge: 4 s

  • Release a timed charge directly in front of you which damages and inflicts vulnerability to nearby foes when it detonates; inflicts weakness if it strikes a foe at or above the vulnerability stack threshold. This attack drowns foes.
  • Delay: 3 s
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Damage: (1.8)
  • Vulnerability (4): 8 s
  • Drowning (5): 2 s
  • Vulnerability stack threshold: 10
  • Threshold weakness: 3 s
  • Radius: 240
    • This AoE does not travel, but rather just appears directly in front of the player upon successful cast and remains there until it explodes.
    • This skill now uses the [Throw Mine] animation.
    • Now has a large, blinking bomb model as a visual cue.

[Bubble Jet] (4)
Cast-time: 0; Recharge: 12 s

  • Gain super speed and temporarily destroy incoming projectiles in a small area around you.
  • Super speed: 3 s
  • Projectile destruction: 1½ s
    • Projectile destruction hitbox and visual effect equivalent to that of Ranger [Swirling Strike].

[Net Wall] (5)

  • Cast-time increased from ¼ s to ½ s.
  • Recharge reduced from 20 s to 18 s.
  • Immobilized duration reduced from 3 s to 2 s.
  • Now unblockable.

(edited by Erasmus.1624)

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= THIEF HARPOON GUN =


[The Ripper] (Stealth autoattack)
Cast-time: 1 s

  • Reveal yourself and fire a massive, piercing harpoon that damages and bleeds foes; gain might and fury for every foe struck.
  • Self revealed: 4 s
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Damage: (1.4)
  • Bleeding (5): 6 s
  • Might (2) per foe struck: 6 s
  • Fury per foe struck: 1½ s
  • Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
  • Pierces
  • Range: 1200
    • Hitbox equivalent to Guardian [Orb of Light]; normal autoattack projectile speed and pathing.
  • The thief gains reveal upon activating this skill; Thief is revealed while casting.

[Piercing Shot] (1)
Cast-time: 1 s

  • Fire a piercing harpoon.
  • Damage: (0.7)
  • Range: 1000

[Flanking Bayonet] (2)
Cast-time: ¾ s; Initiative: 4

  • Gain aegis, then flank and stab your foe; suffer vulnerability if you do not strike a foe with this attack.
  • Number of targets: 3
  • Damage: (1.3)
  • Aegis: 1½ s
  • Miss vulnerability (8): 5 s
  • Range: 150

[Toxic Slip] (3)
Cast-time: ½ s; Initiative: 4

  • Retreat backwards and leave behind a trail of poison.
  • Fields: 3
  • Field pulses (3): every 1 s
  • Poison per pulse: 2 s
  • Field duration: 2 s
  • Combo Field: Poison
  • Retreat distance: 400

[Ink Shot] (4a)

  • Cast-time: ¼ s; Initiative: 5
  • Shoot an ink shot that blinds foes in a line. You may detonate the shot and shadowstep to it.
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Damage: (0.1)
  • Blind: 3 s
  • Pierces
  • Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
  • Range: 1000

[Smoke Trail] (4b)
Cast-time: 0; Initiative: 1

  • Detonate your ink shot and shadowstep to it.
  • Range: 1200

[Nine-Tailed Strike]
Cast-time: 2 s; Initiative: 6

  • Gain super speed and unleash a flurry of bayonet strikes that bleed foes. This skill’s final strike drowns foes.
  • Super speed: 1½ s
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Strikes (6): every ¼ s
  • Damage per strike: (0.3)
  • Bleeding (1) per strike: 4 s
  • Final strike drowning (3): 3 s
  • Range: 150

(edited by Erasmus.1624)

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Smooth Penguin.5294

Underwater combat is a prelude to Air to Air combat. Just saying.

/aion

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Erasmus.1624

= GUARDIAN TRIDENT =


[Light of Judgment] (1)
Cast-time: 1 s

  • Fire a ball of light that heals allies and damages foes upon impact.
  • Number of allies: 5
  • Number of foes: 3
  • Damage: (0.85)
  • Healing: 185 (0.2)
  • Blast radius: 150
  • Range: 1200
    • Straight line projectile path.

[Pillar of Light] (2)
Cast-time: ½ s; Recharge: 5 s

  • Channel to increase attack distance. Create a pillar of light that damages foes every second at the determined location.
  • Number of targets: 10
  • Pulses (5): every 1 s
  • Damage per pulse: (0.5)
  • Duration: 4 s
  • Range: 1200

[Zealot’s Flurry] (3)
Cast-time: 1¼ s; Recharge: 5 s

  • Unleash a storm of strikes upon foes in front of you. This skill’s final strike drowns foes.
  • Number of targets: 3
  • Strikes (8)
  • Damage per strike: (0.3)
  • Final strike drowning (4): 8 s
  • Range: 275

[Refraction] (4)
Cast-time: ¼ s; Recharge: 20 s

  • Create a bubble that absorbs hostile projectiles. Allies that pass through this bubble gain super speed.
  • Super speed: 3 s
  • Bubble duration: 5 s
  • Radius: 240
  • Combo Field: Light
    • The super speed is only applied once per ally (has an internal cool-down per target of 6 seconds or something).

[Spear Wall] (5)
Cast-time: ¼ s; Recharge: 20 s

  • Knock back nearby foes and create a brilliant wall of spears in front of you that knocks back foes who attempt to cross it.
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Initial knock back: 200
  • Initial knock back radius: 180
  • Wall knock back: 200
  • Wall duration: 4 s
  • Unblockable

(edited by Erasmus.1624)

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= ELEMENTALIST TRIDENT =


[Magma Orb] (1)

  • Cast-time increased from ½ s to 1 s.
  • Strike damage coefficient increased from (0.4) to (0.5).
  • Explosion damage coefficient increased from (0.4) to (0.5).
  • Explosion radius increased from 120 to 150.

[Boil] (2)

  • Cast-time: ½ s; Recharge: 25 s
  • Channel to increase attack distance. Boil the water at the determined location.
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Pulses (8): every 1 s
  • Damage per pulse: (0.55)
  • Duration: 8 s
  • Combo Field: Fire
  • Radius: 240
  • Range: 1200
    • Pulses occur at the end of each second.

[Steam] (3)

  • Cast-time: ¼ s; Recharge: 25 s
  • Retreat backwards, blinding and burning nearby foes with blast of hot steam.
  • Number of foes: 5
  • Blind: 3 s
  • Burning: 5 s
  • Combo Finisher: Blast
  • Radius: 180
  • Retreat distance: 400

[Heat Wave] (4)
Cast-time: ¼ s; Recharge: 40 s

  • Unleash a heat wave that breaks stun, grants endurance and removes movement impeding conditions on allies; allies above the endurance threshold also gain super speed.
  • Number of allies: 5
  • Conditions removed: Immobilized; Chilled; Crippled
  • Endurance: 25
  • Endurance threshold: 50
  • Threshold super speed: 3 s
  • Range: 600
    • Now uses a recolored Necromancer [Wave of Fear] visual model with an identical hitbox.
    • This skill cannot be used to break stun on the user.

[Hydromancer’s Poise] (5)
Cast-time: 0

  • Recharge water attunement.

[Water Missile] (1)
Cast-time: 1 s

  • Launch a water missile that bursts on impact, damaging nearby foes; deals more damage at closer range.
  • Number of targets: 3
  • Damage beyond 600 range: (0.55)
  • Damage within 600 range: (0.85)
  • Radius: 150
  • Range: 1200
    • No longer tracks targets; projectile speed increased by 33%.

[Undercurrent] (2)
Cast-time: 1½ s; Recharge: 5 s

  • Rapidly sink yourself while spinning and striking foes along your path. While under the effects of super speed, each strike heals allies in an area around you and cripples struck foes. Strikes made while under the effects of super speed also drown foes.
  • Number of targets: 3
  • Number of impacts: 4
  • Damage per strike: (0.3)
  • Combo Finisher: Whirl
  • Range: 450
  • Number of allies: 5
  • Super speed strike healing: 280 (0.25)
  • Super speed strike crippled: 1½ s
  • Super speed strike drowning (1): 7 s
  • Healing radius: 450
    • Mechanic equivalent to [Steam Vent] with inverted initial travel orientation (even though the orientation of [Steam Vent] isn’t a consistent, fixed upward movement along a single z-axis point); [Steam Vent] is, in reality, a channeled dash skill
    • Needs to fix the bug which occurs after [Steam Vent]’s use (player is often locked in place).
    • Healing occurs with each attack even if the attacks do not strike any valid targets.

[Tidal Wave] (3a)
Cast-time: 1¼ s; Recharge: 5 s

  • Charge forward with tidal force.
  • Combo Finisher: Leap
  • Range: 600
    • Current Ranger [Dart]

[Surging Spear] (3b)
Cast-time: ½ s

  • Stop charging and deliver a powerful thrust attack; deal bonus damage to foes that are above you.
  • Damage: (1.2)
  • Damage vs foes above you: (2.0)
  • Range: 150
    • This skill interrupts the cast of [Tidal Wave].
    • This skill’s strike checks the current z-axis position of any struck target and then subtracts the user’s current z-axis position from that value; if [(enemy z-axis) – (player z-axis)] >; 0, then the strike uses the bonus damage coefficient when calculating its damage value.

[Maelstrom] (4)
Cast-time: ½ s; Recharge: 5 s

  • Channel to increase attack distance. Create a maelstrom which damages foes at the determined location. If you successfully combo this skill with a specified field, this skill’s finisher pulses grant bonus effects to allies. This attack’s pulses drown foes.
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Pulses (4): every 1 s
  • Damage per pulse: (0.7)
  • Drowning (1) per pulse: 4 s
  • Duration: 4 s
  • Combo Finisher: Whirl
  • Number of allies: 5
  • Fire field healing: 808 (1.0)
  • Lighting field fury: 2½ s
  • Smoke field protection: 1½ s
  • Radius: 180
  • Range: 1200
    • Pulses occur at the end of each second.
    • Each pulse tick is also a whirl finisher.

[Ice Wall] (5a)
Cast-time: ½ s; Recharge: 20 s

  • Retreat backwards and leave behind a wall of ice that foes cannot cross.
  • Duration: 4 s
  • Radius: 320
  • Unblockable
    • Retains its Guardian [Line of Warding] “knock back” properties.

[Shatter Ice Wall] (5b)
Cast-time: ½ s

  • Shatter your ice wall, damaging and chilling foes in the blast.
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Damage: (2.0)
  • Chilled: 2 s
  • Combo Finisher: Blast

[Forked Lightning] (1)
Cast-time: 1 s

  • Fire three bolts of lightning in an arc in front of you. If all three bolts hit, you gain super speed.
  • Damage per bolt: (0.4)
  • Super speed: ¾ s
  • Range: 1200

[Air Pocket] (2a)

  • Recharge increased from 12 s to 20 s.
  • Projectile movement speed increased by 33%.

[Vacuum] (2b)
Cast-time: ½ s

  • Detonate your air pocket, crippling and removing super speed from nearby foes; teleport to your air pocket’s location and gain super speed.
  • Self super speed: 3 s
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Crippled: 3 s
  • Radius: 240
  • Range: 1500

[Air Bubble] (3)
Cast-time: ¼ s; Recharge: 30 s

  • Channel to increase attack distance. Trap foes in a floating air bubble at the determined location.
  • Number of targets: 3
  • Float: 1½ s
  • Radius: 240
  • Range: 1200

[Lightning Cage] (4)
Cast-time: ½ s; Recharge: 40 s

  • Channel to increase attack distance. Create an electrical field that stuns foes who cross it at the determined location.
  • Damage: (0.4)
  • Stun: 1½ s
  • Duration: 4 s
  • Combo Field: Lightning
  • Radius: 240
  • Range: 1200
  • Unblockable

[Hydromancer’s Poise] (5)
Cast-time: 0

  • Recharge water attunement.

[Rock Blade] (1)
Cast-time: 1 s

  • Shoot a large, piercing stone blade.
  • Damage: (0.6)
  • Bleeding (2): 6 s
  • Pierces
  • Range: 1200

[Magnetic Current] (2)
Cast-time: ¾ s; Recharge: 30 s

  • Magnetize the water with a whirl and steal boons from nearby foes, converting them into might for yourself and nearby allies. If you successfully combo this skill with a specified field, you and nearby allies gain a bonus based on that field.
  • Number of foes: 5
  • Boons removed per foe: 3
  • Might per boon removed: 10 s
  • Combo Finisher: Whirl
  • Number of allies: 5
  • Fire field might (5): 10 s
  • Lightning field super speed: 5 s
  • Smoke field magnetic aura: 4 s
  • Radius: 450
    • This skill directly removes boons from nearby foes and then applies might to the user and allies within its radius for each boon removed in this way.

[Rock Anchor] (3)
Cast-time: ¾ s; Recharge: 40 s

  • Weaken and sink foes in front of you with a massive boulder.
  • Number of targets: 3
  • Weakness: 6 s
  • Sink: 1½ s
  • Range: 150
    • This skill is now a melee attack; the boulder visual cue is now conjured in front of the player regardless of whether or not the attack strikes any target.

[Murky Water] (4)
Cast-time: ¾ s; Recharge: 40 s

  • Channel to increase attack range. Cloud the water and blind foes at the target location.
  • Number of targets: 5
  • Pulses (6): every 1 s
  • Blind per pulse: 2 s
  • Duration: 5 s
  • Radius: 180
  • Combo Field: Smoke
  • Range: 1200

[Hydromancer’s Poise] (5)
Cast-time: 0

  • Recharge water attunement.

(edited by Erasmus.1624)

DEEP SALVAGE: Underwater Combat

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: BunjiKugashira.9754

BunjiKugashira.9754

*Base movement speed while underwater increased by 25%

Why would you move underwater faster than on land? Underwater-movement is already sufficiently fast. It just doesn’t feel like it because you have no ground immediately under your feet to measure your traveling distance.

*Players can now finish downed opponents while underwater.

This would require to remove the option to move while downed because currently anyone can just swim away from the enemy that’s about to finish him.

*Professions now only have access to a single underwater weapon.

And this makes underwatercombat more engaging for what reason? If anything we need more, not less underwater weapons. Being forced to take specific weapons shoehorns the player into a build that he/she doesn’t want to play or isn’t traited and equipped for.

*The weapon swap button remains on classes that have it solely as a button to trigger sigils (as if that’s not already its main purpose most days anyway).

Nope, it isn’t.

I’m sorry to tell you, but I completely disagree with the changes you proposed.
——————————————————————————————
What would make underwater combat and exploring better from my point of view:

  • More underwater weapons (including 1h weapons) so that we actually have a choice what to play underwater.
  • Traits and equipment independent from the land build. Instead of using traits that don’t support the underwater weapon or even don’t work at all underwater, we need a seperate underwater build.
  • More underwater skills. For starters ANet could make underwater versions of the skills that currently aren’t usable underwater. Most (if not all) classes only have a single underwater usable elite skill. This needs to change.
  • Don’t make underwater areas too crowded with enemies. ANet already reduced the amount of underwater enemies in some areas, but there are still areas that have way more mobs than an average player can handle.
  • Add cosmetic options for underwater. While this may seem unimportant or even useless, GW2 is all about skins. If a player has some nice underwater skins he/she is more likely to go underwater and try the new stuff.
Shana Flamewielder
Sylvari Elementalist of [SFF]
Abaddons Maul

DEEP SALVAGE: Underwater Combat

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Erasmus.1624

Erasmus.1624

*Base movement speed while underwater increased by 25%

Why would you move underwater faster than on land? Underwater-movement is already sufficiently fast. It just doesn’t feel like it because you have no ground immediately under your feet to measure your traveling distance.

Fair point. To explain, I have to first make the point of how movement speed is abysmally slow in relation to the speed at which damage travels on land and in the sea. The reason why I propose a 25% base movement speed increase is because of how relevant the z-axis is while underwater. In comparison, while on land, combat is about as isometric as Diablo 2, and thus movement speed is rather strong because all we are doing is moving a hitbox across a flat plane of dangerous damage zones. While underwater, moving and strafing (along with the movement penalties for not necessarily moving directly forward) in three dimensions combined with the spherical shape (although many still remain somewhat cylindrical) of AoEs compounds the effectiveness of movement in general. Making everyone faster would not only help players mitigate incoming damage with actual positioning (since the skills and mechanics that I’ve proposed below have a lot of directionality and aiming to them), but it would also just be a general quality of life upgrade.

It isn’t exactly perfectly necessary, however, it will only increase the amount of player engagement in combat by allowing them to move more freely across an encounter.

*Players can now finish downed opponents while underwater.

This would require to remove the option to move while downed because currently anyone can just swim away from the enemy that’s about to finish him.

That’s a good point. It’d be easy enough to just do the anet thing and say “underwater downed state immobilizes players,” but that’s too problematic for gameplay since immobilize (for some inane reason) freezes all player axes instead of just the x and the y (which means going to the surface would be impossible, not to mention how someone might accidentally absorb a allied downed player’s perma (or long duration) immobilize with a condition transfer skill.

It’s a problem to consider, but it should be dealt with.

*Professions now only have access to a single underwater weapon.

And this makes underwatercombat more engaging for what reason? If anything we need more, not less underwater weapons. Being forced to take specific weapons shoehorns the player into a build that he/she doesn’t want to play or isn’t traited and equipped for.

The customization would have to come from the latter 5 skills. The reworks are aimed at providing a base of 5 skills which can be used often and at the discretion of the player in order to legitimately turn the tide of combat in a way that isn’t as demeaningly simple as paper covering rock. Take a look at the rebalanced effects and especially the cast-times/recharge times of the skills above. The reworks result in higher APM, but more importantly, many of the skills have multiple uses built into them aside from just straight damage. With the new GTAoE underwater mechanic combined with the rebalanced attack intervals, movement and positioning skills (which most of those classes now all have in some form) become very powerful and useful in ways that they might not have been before. On top of that, some of the weapons even have viable, consistent melee and ranged options as opposed to them being brutally segregated behind a 10-second wait timer.

*The weapon swap button remains on classes that have it solely as a button to trigger sigils (as if that’s not already its main purpose most days anyway).

Nope, it isn’t.

I will direct you to the questions raised in the first post of this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Sigil-bloat-solutions/first#post5512595

I’m sorry to tell you, but I completely disagree with the changes you proposed.

I’m crushed.

What would make underwater combat and exploring better from my point of view:

  • More underwater weapons (including 1h weapons) so that we actually have a choice what to play underwater.

The reason why I consolidated most of the current underwater weapons is exactly because there was so much filler fluff that it makes underwater combat even more spammy than ground combat. Have a look at some of the skills in this thread, and you’ll see how a single weapon set can still be very active so long as skill effects are balanced properly with cooldowns, activation times and conditional effects. We don’t need more skills; we need more sustainable, consistent, well-cued actions which save the player from having little to do but spam 1 while he/she waits for the BASELINE 8-12 SECOND RECHARGE ON A 2 SKILL to come back up.

That also harkens back to what I said about weapon swapping existing to swap sigils: why design a weapon set in which the only skill that can be used repeatedly before the weapon swap timer is even fully recharged is the blasted autoattack? Anet really expected people to be satisfied with pressing their 2-5 buttons (with their typical short activations) and having nothing left to do but autoattack until maybe their 2 skill came back up just in time to swap to another weapon set with fresh cooldowns. Their design is practically begging people to just use the weapon swap button as an energy sigil proc (that is if the player isn’t just slotting one or even both of the same sigils across the two weapons—which does happen very, very often). It’s completely crazy, so I addressed that.

  • Traits and equipment independent from the land build. Instead of using traits that don’t support the underwater weapon or even don’t work at all underwater, we need a seperate underwater build.

There aren’t enough things underwater or unique mechanics in all of GW2 to warrant a separate gear/trait system.

  • More underwater skills. For starters ANet could make underwater versions of the skills that currently aren’t usable underwater. Most (if not all) classes only have a single underwater usable elite skill. This needs to change.

Most of those are GTAoEs. I addressed that with the mechanic I mentioned in the first post. If we can get a mechanic like that implemented (and by implemented, I mean, it’s already basically in the game in its own disassembled form), then it suddenly means that loads and loads of skills can easily be adjusted and included into underwater combat. The rest are just anet not addressing basic concepts like flesh golem dying if it enters the water or some transform abilities not having underwater equivalents (the latter of which is fine by me for the most part).

  • Don’t make underwater areas too crowded with enemies. ANet already reduced the amount of underwater enemies in some areas, but there are still areas that have way more mobs than an average player can handle.

Given that I gave a lot of classes many movement and control options on their weapons now, the only thing that would quickly kill players would be loads and loads of ranged enemies. So long as we cull those to a low number, underwater with the skills up above would be more like a musou game with the player dashing about and crushing mobs of melee NPCs if they’re good enough.

  • Add cosmetic options for underwater. While this may seem unimportant or even useless, GW2 is all about skins. If a player has some nice underwater skins he/she is more likely to go underwater and try the new stuff.

I can’t disagree with more cosmetics. Still seems a little contrived, though, given that there aren’t really any “ground-only” skins aside from helmets given the forced rebreather (but players can even just skin over that).

(edited by Erasmus.1624)

DEEP SALVAGE: Underwater Combat

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Erasmus.1624

Erasmus.1624

Underwater combat is a prelude to Air to Air combat. Just saying.

/aion

And that’s fine, just as long as they don’t do what they did with underwater combat and make the vast majority of ranged abilities entirely bound to having a selected target while letting all the numbers on skills unravel in weird, arbitrary patterns in relation to their effects. Although, anet is a LONG way from aerial combat if they can’t get any skill to work mid-air except for a few specific “transform” style abilities.

(edited by Erasmus.1624)

DEEP SALVAGE: Underwater Combat

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Posted by: BunjiKugashira.9754

BunjiKugashira.9754

I don’t doubt that a single weapon set can be very “active” with the changes you proposed, however depending on the player’s personal style, he wants a weapon that deals direct damage or condition damage, controls enemies or boosts allies, has it’s focus on single target or aoe, is melee or ranged. There are so many possible combinations that you can make a single weapon either a jack of all trades, master of none, or you make the weapon only viable for a very limited amount of playstiles. And that’s why we need more underwater weapons, so that every playstile has a weapon.

From what I saw from your rebalanced skills, most of the weapons are only viable for a single playstile. The player either has to adapt to that playstile, which forces him to also adapt their overwater build, or he has to play with a weapon that he effectively can’t use.

Simply rebalancing the existing skills won’t help underwater combat and reducing the number of weapon choices will make underwater combat even worse.

Shana Flamewielder
Sylvari Elementalist of [SFF]
Abaddons Maul

DEEP SALVAGE: Underwater Combat

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Erasmus.1624

Erasmus.1624

I don’t doubt that a single weapon set can be very “active” with the changes you proposed

Alright, “active” is a pretty big buzzword, but the main point was to not just increase APM, but also give the player something other to commit to “autoattack” and “shallow rotation that takes nothing to cast.” The fact that the player has about three things to juggle per skill bar now makes playstyles a little more apparent by how a player decides to use those options. Right now, playstyles don’t exist because all anyone does is dump a shallow rotation into autoattack. Playstyles aren’t determined by tool tips, they are determined by how a player uses a build in a way that seeks to overcome detriments or optimize abilities on a situation-to-situation basis.

however depending on the player’s personal style, he wants a weapon that deals direct damage or condition damage,

There is no game that has so seriously considered damage over time as something to rival direct damage as Guild Wars 2—and for good reason. People feel cheated when killed by a DoT. Direct damage yields that clear-cut victory whereas a guy who dumped DoTs onto a guy and faffed about in a circle while the target bled out over the course of 3 seconds because it didn’t have a condition cleanse ready is a convoluted design concept. Damage over time means just that: damage over time. It’s a pressure mechanic. Attempting to make what is conceptually a pressure mechanic into spike damage is nothing but a ploy at trying to make it seem like Guild Wars 2 perpetuates any playstyle aside from “be invulnerable and deal damage.”

controls enemies or boosts allies,

Every weapon set featured in this thread has this option in their own respective ways as well.

has it’s focus on single target or aoe, is melee or ranged.

I already mentioned how I adapted skill sets and mixed options in order to allow an underwater weapon user to adapt at both ranges and within the presence of different enemy groups. It’s not so much about “which weapon should I bring so I can press 1-5 more effectively (because I’m going to press every button rapidly no matter what)?” but rather “Should I be using 1 or 2 for this guy, and when/how should I use my 4/5?” The latter is an example of actual, dynamic playstyle generation. Weapons as they are now are mainly just simple rotations without any real thought aside from maybe saving 1 button out of the 5. The rebalance above is a work that seeks to make every skill worthwhile and repeatable depending on whatever situation in which a player finds himself/herself.

There are so many possible combinations that you can make a single weapon either a jack of all trades, master of none,

Except, as I’ve said before, most people don’t have any real playstyle aside from “be invulnerable to effects and deal easy damage.” Why is Guardian Shelter meta? Why is Endure Pain meta? Tool Kit block? Mesmer invulnerability/stealth spam? Ranger signets? Stability? Shadow Refuge with as many teleports as possible? Why does everyone and their grandmother run Rune of Vampirism? Why do people stack and dodge?

The underwater reworks above work to deny that single, gimmick playstyle by replacing it with a lot of positioning-dependent attacks that aren’t necessarily bound by the targeting system.

or you make the weapon only viable for a very limited amount of playstiles. And that’s why we need more underwater weapons, so that every playstile has a weapon.

If you wanted to make weapons bound to specific playstyles, this game would have had weapons with 3 skill slots. The boon/condition/damage dealing system in GW2 is incredibly shallow and given how most boons/conditions are not only spammed/passively granted for free (and any that aren’t are acquired instantly with the press of a button), but are also tied to skills that already deal direct damage on their own. The only way to actually make class or build-specific playstyles in this game would be to drastically bottleneck the amount of skill slots available to any given player.

Anet won’t do that because they aren’t going to change anything and the playerbase’s mind has already been formed to the game’s norm, so in all honesty, discussion of the reality that you actually want (no matter how sure you are of it in your mind) is entirely moot.

From what I saw from your rebalanced skills, most of the weapons are only viable for a single playstile.

Yeah, OK, so that’s the part that I’m curious about: what playstyle am I pushing? What’s good or bad about it? You’re just saying “Oh, it’s pushing a single playstyle,” but what does that even mean? How is it just a single playstyle? Don’t be so vague. Give an actual answer or description.

Simply rebalancing the existing skills won’t help underwater combat and reducing the number of weapon choices will make underwater combat even worse.

Again, worse HOW? What are you even talking about when you say these things? Tell me specifically what the problem is instead of just giving your vague, airy opinion.

DEEP SALVAGE: Underwater Combat

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Posted by: Erasmus.1624

Erasmus.1624

Done entirely on a fleeting whim, some in-game testing and observation lead to a lot of updates for these lists. Elementalist, Engineer, Ranger, and Thief saw the most changes.

Being forced to take specific weapons shoehorns the player into a build that he/she doesn’t want to play or isn’t traited and equipped for.

It occurs to me that this is a funny thing to bring up. Consider the following:

Every class already has every underwater weapon combination option already equipped, and there are only two ways to deal damage in GW2: direct damage and condition damage. Each class typically has access to 2 weapons while underwater; one that doesn’t already has supplementary weapon sets while the other is already dedicated to direct damage respectively. Underwater combat (although the numbers are all goofy and arbitrary even more so than the examples on the ground), already covers every base possible in combat.

I argue that GW2’s combat system has very little to add to it (in any format—even one as neglected as underwater zones). Due to this shallow combat design stretched thin by bloat skills and excessive total abilities per build, I took the liberty of condensing skill abilities and combat options in order to give general, individual skill use a more tailored and powerful effect on a profession to profession basis. This sort of adjustment not only gives individual professions multiple options (re-positioning, damage, control, support) with its 5 weapon skills, but it also makes combat more legible by limiting the total amount of skill spam on the field.

Now, all this doesn’t mean that GW2’s combat system is entirely bad, per se, it just means that the actions that anyone player can take are often diluted and floaty in application despite often dealing ludicrous amounts of damage. It’s out of whack.

DEEP SALVAGE: Underwater Combat

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Posted by: Erasmus.1624

Erasmus.1624

Solved the problem of not being able to finish someone underwater.