Guild Wars 2

Doing dailies takes about 30-40 mins for me to get the laurels. So idk if 30-40 mins is too much a grind for people.

Maybe people want to get their bis on the very first day it gets released? Then people will start complaining about nothing to do and get after that.

It’s precisely this time-gated content that is the problem. They just happen to not fit the typical definition of grindy.

Joshiasi.2840:

Doing dailies takes about 30-40 mins for me to get the laurels. So idk if 30-40 mins is too much a grind for people.

Maybe people want to get their bis on the very first day it gets released? Then people will start complaining about nothing to do and get after that.

I believe it’s the fact that you have to do it everyday and you’ll get 1 piece in 30 days. Not to mention the grind required of a Guild in order to even unlock Guild Missions. Then you have the grind to even get the Ascended pieces after Guild Missions are unlocked. Fractals isn’t that bad because you can unlock Ascended Rings at your own pace but the RNG/Daily token is still a minimal 20 day devotion if you don’t get lucky with RNG.

The dailies by themselves aren’t that bad, but when you add everything else to the mixture, it starts to become an eye opener. Dailies, tokens, 100k+ influence, etc. It’s getting out of control.

Flamenco.3894:

Raine.1394:

Flamenco.3894:

It’s optional. If you have exotic you are fine. Ascended is for players who a little bit more but it’s not necessary. What’s so hard to understand about this concept?

It’s like this community is made out of people who want everything their way. You do not need ascended gear anywhere except for higher level fractals. And to get a high level fractal you will need to play it a lot, but it’s not a gateway to something you are required to do if you want to play most of the game.

You can’t have everything at once and with exotics you will do fine just anywhere.

Also, just visited 20 areas, didn’t see a single soul. The game is doomed

The concept is easy to understand. Allow me to explain it to you. Vertical progression can be described by an integer series 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,…n where each number represents a new tier of gear with a correspondingly higher power level. The difference between 1 and 2 is negligible with a low power level and could be ignored and it would have little impact on your ability to play the game. How about the difference between 1 and 100? Remember what we are dealing with. Vertical: the power level of the game increases. Progression: it periodically and continually increases. Vertical progression doesn’t progress by stopping. If it stopped it would no longer be vertical progression. It takes little intellectual horsepower to understand that what vertical progression introduces is a non-optional gear grind. If you want to continue playing the game you must follow the power curve. The concept is simple and should be easily understood. It does, however, continue to represent a challenge for many in the forums.

It’s all in your head. You can do just fine playing most of the game with integer # 4. You are only feeling peer pressure or the assumption that most people will deny people with ‘merely’ exotics in a couple of months, right?

Anyways, I understand the concept and I don’t know why you thought you needed to explain it but I assume it has to do with repeating it to yourself until you believe it.

Can you help me with this one? How exactly can you understand a concept that is all in my head? And, why on earth would you need to “believe” in vertical progression? It is a well-defined and understood concept in gaming. Where exactly does the need for “belief” come in?

I think that what Anet was trying to implement is for the casuals who can’t play longer hours as semi to hardcore players do to be able to catch up in terms of gearing progression.

It does add up to many people but for others who can only log in like 1-2 hours a day or less, its a pace that they can keep up with other fellow gamers.

there is no forced grind.
you dont need “BiS” to get into any of the game content (fotm lvl 20+ aside… but hey…).
you can rock orr with your exo and probably be the best player in wvw with your exo.

do the test.
check you “ascended hp” difference. its nothing. 100-200hp??
and your dmg? 40-50 more?

geez people, wake up!
the game is vast and nearly totally horizontal!
do an alt, do pvp, wvw, guild mission, map complete, whatever!

Joshiasi.2840:

I think that what Anet was trying to implement is for the casuals who can’t play longer hours as semi to hardcore players do to be able to catch up in terms of gearing progression.

It does add up to many people but for others who can only log in like 1-2 hours a day or less, its a pace that they can keep up with other fellow gamers.

And those casual gamers will have to spend most of their time doing dailies or whatever else Anet decides to add later to play “catch up” than actually playing how they want to play.

Anet really doesn’t think things through.

purpleskies.3274:

Flamenco.3894:

bpphantom.8243:

Flamenco.3894:

It’s optional. If you have exotic you are fine. Ascended is for players who a little bit more but it’s not necessary. What’s so hard to understand about this concept?

Exotics are no longer BiS. New end-game content will be balanced around Exotics being the minimum requirements. Ascended will be the norm and the batch after Ascended will be the “good to haves”.

Do you work for Anet or are you just assuming that will happen? On what basis are you assuming that?

FotM already works that way. It is balanced off having ascended, exotics will only get you so far. So clearly that is the direction they are heading.

Fractals is an exception. Where else in the game is ascended gear a gate?
FotM has fractal relics that you can trade in for ascended gear precizely because you will need ascended gear to proceed, if not effectively, at all. Assuming that Anet will decide that ascended gear will be the new basis for most of ‘end-game’ content is quite absurd.

Joshiasi.2840:

I think that what Anet was trying to implement is for the casuals who can’t play longer hours as semi to hardcore players do to be able to catch up in terms of gearing progression.

It does add up to many people but for others who can only log in like 1-2 hours a day or less, its a pace that they can keep up with other fellow gamers.

too bad for them!
because they played 500-1000h hours less than an hardcore since launch, they have -200hp and/or -50dmg.
in pve? who cares…
in wvw? ok, “maybe”.
in pvp? doesnt matter.

casuals are fine.

game progression is smartly done.

Flamenco.3894:

purpleskies.3274:

Flamenco.3894:

bpphantom.8243:

Flamenco.3894:

It’s optional. If you have exotic you are fine. Ascended is for players who a little bit more but it’s not necessary. What’s so hard to understand about this concept?

Exotics are no longer BiS. New end-game content will be balanced around Exotics being the minimum requirements. Ascended will be the norm and the batch after Ascended will be the “good to haves”.

Do you work for Anet or are you just assuming that will happen? On what basis are you assuming that?

FotM already works that way. It is balanced off having ascended, exotics will only get you so far. So clearly that is the direction they are heading.

Fractals is an exception. Where else in the game is ascended gear a gate?
FotM has fractal relics that you can trade in for ascended gear precizely because you will need ascended gear to proceed, if not effectively, at all. Assuming that Anet will decide that ascended gear will be the new basis for most of ‘end-game’ content is quite absurd.

another player who didnt do the content an is complaining..
i played fotm from 1 to 20.
i NEVER had to “stop” because i was missing gear, i just got the gear as i progressed….

vespers.1759:

so you’re okay with 80 days to get 2 earrings?

remember that if you have more than 1 set of gear that is doubled. 2 sets or gear= 160 days. if you have an alt with 2 sets of gear that’s almost a year to get JUST the earrings assuming you play every single day.

that’s 320 days without missing a single day.

I agree that it is too much time to get upgrades. But also, people should have to consider that GW2 doesn’t have an end-game. You don’t really “need” ascended gear for anything. So, there’s actually no time limit to get it. It’s not like Anet will release a new raid tier the next month and you need this gear to beat the current tier before the new tier arrives.

This is a “no pressure” game. Nobody is more powerful than anyone because of gear. You don’t really need better gear to beat content. For Anet, you have all the time in the world to get the gear.

I don’t agree with that view, of course. I don’t want to spend a year grinding the same content over and over to basically get a tiny stat upgrade or a cosmectic “upgrade”. But it seems like Anet has this idea that we want to play The Sims or something like that.

There are also other ways of obtaining ascended accessories. You can also attain them by doing guild missions and just save up the currency to buy them.

Its not like people are just forced to do dailies to attain the new ascended gear.

HannaDeFreitas.4236:

You’re making a mess because you don’t want to do this and that.
Then don’t, and keep your exotic earrings or your 80 days or whatever.
GW2 even supports bullheaded people like that though you’re penalized for not wanting to properly coordinate with guilds by needing more time for the items.

Why should I be penalized for not joining a mega guild and running raids according to their time schedule? Oh how far GW2 has fallen from it’s mission statement…

Joshiasi.2840:

There are also other ways of obtaining ascended accessories. You can also attain them by doing guild missions and just save up the currency to buy them.

Its not like people are just forced to do dailies to attain the new ascended gear.

The majority of people actually are forced to do dailies to obtain these. Not everyone is in a huge guild. Not every guild has a play schedule where ALL of there members are on at the same time to do the missions.

its all cool.

id MUCH rater anet focus on improving the event$champions fights and the encounters and the pvp/wvw to make them as much fun and intense as possible.

just giving us gated content “need that item for next month update” and then grind the same dungeon for the whole month…
not for me.
this is diablo 3.

Avatar.1923:

Flamenco.3894:

purpleskies.3274:

Flamenco.3894:

bpphantom.8243:

Flamenco.3894:

It’s optional. If you have exotic you are fine. Ascended is for players who a little bit more but it’s not necessary. What’s so hard to understand about this concept?

Exotics are no longer BiS. New end-game content will be balanced around Exotics being the minimum requirements. Ascended will be the norm and the batch after Ascended will be the “good to haves”.

Do you work for Anet or are you just assuming that will happen? On what basis are you assuming that?

FotM already works that way. It is balanced off having ascended, exotics will only get you so far. So clearly that is the direction they are heading.

Fractals is an exception. Where else in the game is ascended gear a gate?
FotM has fractal relics that you can trade in for ascended gear precizely because you will need ascended gear to proceed, if not effectively, at all. Assuming that Anet will decide that ascended gear will be the new basis for most of ‘end-game’ content is quite absurd.

another player who didnt do the content an is complaining..
i played fotm from 1 to 20.
i NEVER had to “stop” because i was missing gear, i just got the gear as i progressed….

I am not complaining. If you had read the post I replied to, you would know that I was only stating it’s highly unlikely that ascended gear will be the norm for the rest of the game.
Try to read next time, alright?

Hexgame.4802:

Joshiasi.2840:

There are also other ways of obtaining ascended accessories. You can also attain them by doing guild missions and just save up the currency to buy them.

Its not like people are just forced to do dailies to attain the new ascended gear.

The majority of people actually are forced to do dailies to obtain these. Not everyone is in a huge guild. Not every guild has a play schedule where ALL of there members are on at the same time to do the missions.

if not in a big guild and not doing wvw, you dont really need the gear anyway.
youll do fine without it.

Avatar.1923:

Hexgame.4802:

Joshiasi.2840:

There are also other ways of obtaining ascended accessories. You can also attain them by doing guild missions and just save up the currency to buy them.

Its not like people are just forced to do dailies to attain the new ascended gear.

The majority of people actually are forced to do dailies to obtain these. Not everyone is in a huge guild. Not every guild has a play schedule where ALL of there members are on at the same time to do the missions.

if not in a big guild and not doing wvw, you dont really need the gear anyway.
youll do fine without it.

I don’t even know how to reply to this…

Avatar.1923:

another player who didnt do the content an is complaining..
i played fotm from 1 to 20.
i NEVER had to “stop” because i was missing gear, i just got the gear as i progressed….

What? 20 is where the gear gating begins…

This is like a slap in the face for everyone who doesn’t belong in a big guild. Small guild members and solo players are totally screwed.

Think about it. 2 commendations per guild mission type per week. 5 guild mission types. 10 commendations per week. Thus, getting the earrings will take 2 weeks and a day. Or 15 days. And 10 gold.

Everyone who is not in a guild? Too bad for you, You will have to grind for a minimum of 60 days. And oh, it also costs 40 gold.

TL:DR: if you are not in a big guild, getting your earrings will take 45 days more and cost you an additional 30 gold. It is a 300% increase in playtime and gold price. Do you feel it is fair to put players not in a guild over SIX WEEKS behind the guildies?

PS. I’m a solo player and always will. I’ve loved this game so far, but seeing this change, I’m actually considering dropping the game. This way my losses will be smaller than they will be if I stubbornly continue my daily work towards the earrings. Because god knows that 60 days from now one, there will already be another type of equipment I will never be able to get unless i’m in a big, powerful guild. If you say I dont need ascended, you are wrong. I play mostly fractals…

Avatar.1923:

there is no forced grind.
you dont need “BiS” to get into any of the game content (fotm lvl 20+ aside… but hey…).
you can rock orr with your exo and probably be the best player in wvw with your exo.

do the test.
check you “ascended hp” difference. its nothing. 100-200hp??
and your dmg? 40-50 more?

geez people, wake up!
the game is vast and nearly totally horizontal!
do an alt, do pvp, wvw, guild mission, map complete, whatever!

I can help you here. Can you give me the definition of vertical progression and it’s role in game design? According to Anet, post 11/15 we have vertical progression. It’s a straightforward concept. Can you explain it by defining it and describing it’s function?

Fortuna.7259:

Avatar.1923:

another player who didnt do the content an is complaining..
i played fotm from 1 to 20.
i NEVER had to “stop” because i was missing gear, i just got the gear as i progressed….

What? 20 is where the gear gating begins…

somewhat, yes.
but going pas 20 doesnt really give you more reward.
you can get all the rings and backpack etc by doing 20 an less.
20+ is for players looking for ultra challenging encounters. thats all. for “fun”.

I’ll just leave this here.

I just see it as completely unbalanced. FotM only takes 10 days (or even less if you run 10/20/30) to get a ring of your choice. Why so much longer for an accessory or amulet?

Why not add amulets/accessories to the fotm vendor for 10 pristine relics?

I mean, if anet isn’t going to add more items to that vendor over time, is there any real reason to continue doing fotm?

What I’m worried about is if this is how we have to get the 3 easiest types of items i can get for my character and they are all incredibly annoying to get for me as a player. How are ascended weapons/armor going to be handled if this is how the accessories were handled. Heck they haven’t even added any ascended gear to karma(which needs something as it’s the most worthless currency at the moment) and WvW which they said they were going to do. If they themselves don’t know what they are gonna do with ascended items then why the hell are they even around yet? they should have released all ascended items in one big patch that puts them all over tyria instead of in select spots and adding more as the months go on.

Raine.1394:

Avatar.1923:

there is no forced grind.
you dont need “BiS” to get into any of the game content (fotm lvl 20+ aside… but hey…).
you can rock orr with your exo and probably be the best player in wvw with your exo.

do the test.
check you “ascended hp” difference. its nothing. 100-200hp??
and your dmg? 40-50 more?

geez people, wake up!
the game is vast and nearly totally horizontal!
do an alt, do pvp, wvw, guild mission, map complete, whatever!

I can help you here. Can you give me the definition of vertical progression and it’s role in game design? According to Anet, post 11/15 we have vertical progression. It’s a straightforward concept. Can you explain it by defining it and describing it’s function?

there is a vertical progression. but i dont feel that the “gear” will “gate” the content.
will you be 2-3% better ? maybe.
but you can still do whatever you enjoy without a gear gate once you reach 80.

some time gated content is to be expected in mmos so players don’t get burned out, but the way arena net has implented it, it does the exact opposite, and if anything will make players burn out quicker rather then slower.

their way is “many activities with many different tokens” instead of a super vertical hardcore raid.

imo, players who will stick to gw2 will be the one who gets into wvw and or pvp (to a certain extent, like maybe 50% of their gaming time).

Avatar.1923:

Fortuna.7259:

Avatar.1923:

another player who didnt do the content an is complaining..
i played fotm from 1 to 20.
i NEVER had to “stop” because i was missing gear, i just got the gear as i progressed….

What? 20 is where the gear gating begins…

somewhat, yes.
but going pas 20 doesnt really give you more reward.
you can get all the rings and backpack etc by doing 20 an less.
20+ is for players looking for ultra challenging encounters. thats all. for “fun”.

When did “doesn’t really” give you more reward come into it?

I can see from your posts here that you aren’t even responding to what people are discussing, but rather something else entirely. Good day.

Avatar.1923:

Raine.1394:

Avatar.1923:

there is no forced grind.
you dont need “BiS” to get into any of the game content (fotm lvl 20+ aside… but hey…).
you can rock orr with your exo and probably be the best player in wvw with your exo.

do the test.
check you “ascended hp” difference. its nothing. 100-200hp??
and your dmg? 40-50 more?

geez people, wake up!
the game is vast and nearly totally horizontal!
do an alt, do pvp, wvw, guild mission, map complete, whatever!

I can help you here. Can you give me the definition of vertical progression and it’s role in game design? According to Anet, post 11/15 we have vertical progression. It’s a straightforward concept. Can you explain it by defining it and describing it’s function?

there is a vertical progression. but i dont feel that the “gear” will “gate” the content.
will you be 2-3% better ? maybe.
but you can still do whatever you enjoy without a gear gate once you reach 80.

I didn’t ask you how much the initial pieces increased the power level of the game, I asked you to define vertical progression and describe it’s function in a game. Until you are able to articulate it yourself you will continue to say that it’s optional and disseminate misinformation on forums. Are you able to define and describe the function of vertical progression? I can understand why you wouldn’t want to go there and sincerely doubt you will.

New gear grind – mass salvaging in LA for achievement laurels X)

I think the biggest difference between Exotic/Ascended stats will be crit dmg and precision. As of now I think you can gain 8% crit damage and 5%-9% crit chance from trinkets alone.

Joshiasi.2840:

I think that what Anet was trying to implement is for the casuals who can’t play longer hours as semi to hardcore players do to be able to catch up in terms of gearing progression.

It does add up to many people but for others who can only log in like 1-2 hours a day or less, its a pace that they can keep up with other fellow gamers.

They cannot. They will use up all their time for doing dailies with no time left for any other activity. And they don’t log in everyday, nor they can access any alternative ways to get the eq.

With exotics, by just playing normally they could manage to get enough gold to buy the set at TP. introducing ascended was a great step backwards for them.

So what’s it going to be next month? Armour or weapons?

Will either of these when they do unfortunatly come, be linked soley to solo play and being anti-social? If not I think that is unfair.

People in large guilds or players who have spent more than 1500 hours in game should have next to no chance to attain the next set of gear, to parallel what’s been done this update.

Soon there will be up to 14 peices of new gear with slightly highter stats. Has anyone done the math yet on the total difference between a full exotic set and a projected ascended set?

Almost feel like asking for a refund to see if Anet would, based on what I’ve read here without logging into the game. Age of Wulin, TESO and Neverwinter, I’m sure can’t come soon enough, so we can atleast compare what GW2 is to another modern MMo.

Fortuna.7259:

Avatar.1923:

Fortuna.7259:

Avatar.1923:

another player who didnt do the content an is complaining..
i played fotm from 1 to 20.
i NEVER had to “stop” because i was missing gear, i just got the gear as i progressed….

What? 20 is where the gear gating begins…

somewhat, yes.
but going pas 20 doesnt really give you more reward.
you can get all the rings and backpack etc by doing 20 an less.
20+ is for players looking for ultra challenging encounters. thats all. for “fun”.

When did “doesn’t really” give you more reward come into it?

I can see from your posts here that you aren’t even responding to what people are discussing, but rather something else entirely. Good day.

what you want me to tell you?
yes, fotm lvl 20 is imo the place where the gear gating begin.
i agree with you. o_O

seriously, i was pushing the discussion further! clearly you cant. so good day.

Raine.1394:

Avatar.1923:

Raine.1394:

Avatar.1923:

there is no forced grind.
you dont need “BiS” to get into any of the game content (fotm lvl 20+ aside… but hey…).
you can rock orr with your exo and probably be the best player in wvw with your exo.

do the test.
check you “ascended hp” difference. its nothing. 100-200hp??
and your dmg? 40-50 more?

geez people, wake up!
the game is vast and nearly totally horizontal!
do an alt, do pvp, wvw, guild mission, map complete, whatever!

I can help you here. Can you give me the definition of vertical progression and it’s role in game design? According to Anet, post 11/15 we have vertical progression. It’s a straightforward concept. Can you explain it by defining it and describing it’s function?

there is a vertical progression. but i dont feel that the “gear” will “gate” the content.
will you be 2-3% better ? maybe.
but you can still do whatever you enjoy without a gear gate once you reach 80.

I didn’t ask you how much the initial pieces increased the power level of the game, I asked you to define vertical progression and describe it’s function in a game. Until you are able to articulate it yourself you will continue to say that it’s optional and disseminate misinformation on forums. Are you able to define and describe the function of vertical progression? I can understand why you wouldn’t want to go there and sincerely doubt you will.

vertical progression; basically a term that became popular because of mmos and players who play too much to define “endgame”. a vertical progression means that your Avatar will get stronger, have a satistical advantage, over another player over time.
function; because some players need to know their Avatar is getting statistically stronger as they play.

Now.

my question;
yes there is a vertical progression in gw2, but it is so minimal that it becomes as optional as achievement points, or pvp ranks, or qty of lvl 80 toons you have.
would you agree with that statement?

…
btw i answered your question “because you asked”.
it would be nice if you could answer mine.

casual player here. I really don’t care about the ascended tier of equipment. Im still using Rare armor and Masterwork accessories, with mostly Exotic weapons. I haven’t noticed my game play experience suffering for it in the slightest. I don’t plan on doing Fractals into Agony, and I haven’t met a dungeon path I can’t do yet.

people crying about stuff they don’t need is silly. if you WANT it, set a goal and go for it. don’t blame the system for your schedule.

roachsrealm.9284:

casual player here. I really don’t care about the ascended tier of equipment. Im still using Rare armor and Masterwork accessories, with mostly Exotic weapons. I haven’t noticed my game play experience suffering for it in the slightest. I don’t plan on doing Fractals into Agony, and I haven’t met a dungeon path I can’t do yet.

people crying about stuff they don’t need is silly. if you WANT it, set a goal and go for it. don’t blame the system for your schedule.

If you’ve never used it, what are you basing your comparison from? Finishing a dungeon =/= no need for better equipments. I don’t understand how your personal experience trivializes the legitimacy of the complaints here.

Vayne.8563:

I’d hate this, if it weren’t for the fact that I’m doing everything in the game with rare and exotic gear. I don’t need ascended to do anything. If it takes a long time, how does it actually change the game for me.

See, in other games, you NEED to have X to complete Y. If you don’t have certain gear levels in Rift, you’re not allowed to queue for specific dungeons. Here, I don’t have that problem.

You need ascended gear to beat an equally skilled player in WvW who has ascended gear.

Hell, you need ascended gear to fight them evenly.

Surprise surprise.

ascended gear for wvwvw players.

that should be the thread subject, as its the only legitimate claim people can make concerning ascended stuff.

EasymodeX.4062:

Vayne.8563:

I’d hate this, if it weren’t for the fact that I’m doing everything in the game with rare and exotic gear. I don’t need ascended to do anything. If it takes a long time, how does it actually change the game for me.

See, in other games, you NEED to have X to complete Y. If you don’t have certain gear levels in Rift, you’re not allowed to queue for specific dungeons. Here, I don’t have that problem.

You need ascended gear to beat an equally skilled player in WvW who has ascended gear.

Hell, you need ascended gear to fight them evenly.

Surprise surprise.

The difference is small enough that that isn’t the case at all. You’d have a point if you were referring to the gap between masterworks and exotics, but not exotics and ascended. The difference is too miniscule to make a realistic impact.

Leo Paul.1659:

roachsrealm.9284:

casual player here. I really don’t care about the ascended tier of equipment. Im still using Rare armor and Masterwork accessories, with mostly Exotic weapons. I haven’t noticed my game play experience suffering for it in the slightest. I don’t plan on doing Fractals into Agony, and I haven’t met a dungeon path I can’t do yet.

people crying about stuff they don’t need is silly. if you WANT it, set a goal and go for it. don’t blame the system for your schedule.

If you’ve never used it, what are you basing your comparison from? Finishing a dungeon =/= no need for better equipments. I don’t understand how your personal experience trivializes the legitimacy of the complaints here.

what does everyone need the extra stat boosts for? why are ascended items so important? anyone can play the game without them. we did for months.. I fail to see why this is such an issue with everyone.

roachsrealm.9284:

Leo Paul.1659:

roachsrealm.9284:

casual player here. I really don’t care about the ascended tier of equipment. Im still using Rare armor and Masterwork accessories, with mostly Exotic weapons. I haven’t noticed my game play experience suffering for it in the slightest. I don’t plan on doing Fractals into Agony, and I haven’t met a dungeon path I can’t do yet.

people crying about stuff they don’t need is silly. if you WANT it, set a goal and go for it. don’t blame the system for your schedule.

If you’ve never used it, what are you basing your comparison from? Finishing a dungeon =/= no need for better equipments. I don’t understand how your personal experience trivializes the legitimacy of the complaints here.

what does everyone need the extra stat boosts for? why are ascended items so important? anyone can play the game without them. we did for months.. I fail to see why this is such an issue with everyone.

Exactly. If it isn’t needed why implement it in the first place? I fail to see why this issue evades you.

some players need it to keep playing.
anet is cathering to “all type of players”.

the “perfect player” would play 1/3 pvp, 1/3 wvw, 1/3 pve.
this way he wouldnt burn the content.

but as data probably shown anet; a big majority of their current playerbase is reward driven. give them a stat grind an theyll keep playing.
hence why we got the fotm and the laurels.

now; thats all “ok” imo, aside for wvw….
what will be the solution?

dunno.
but right now its a minor problem that they dont deal with.
it could take bigger proportions and im sure it is on their list now.
probably by giving a way for wvw players to buy ascended gear, next month.

et voila.

thank you im smart

Avatar.1923:

ascended gear for wvwvw players.

that should be the thread subject, as its the only legitimate claim people can make concerning ascended stuff.

I made a thread earlier today suggesting that when they release ascended armor, or ascended weapons (whichever comes first), they make it “WvW exclusive” for a few months, just like this stuff continues to be PvE exclusive.

Peronally I come into a new MMO with the mindframe of playing for years, not months. After 8 years in EQ1 and 4 years in AoC I’ve become acustom to the grind to get what I want from the game, might take me a year or two to do it, but I’ll eventually get it.I have 4 – 80’s in full exotics already and see no need to upgrade them asap, Over time they will get their amulets and rings.

drwookie.6391:

Avatar.1923:

ascended gear for wvwvw players.

that should be the thread subject, as its the only legitimate claim people can make concerning ascended stuff.

I made a thread earlier today suggesting that when they release ascended armor, or ascended weapons (whichever comes first), they make it “WvW exclusive” for a few months, just like this stuff continues to be PvE exclusive.

problem is if you lure the “huge” reward driven risens into wvw, its gonna jam.. lag, queue time etc .. anet doesnt have the technology not enough wvw capacity to do this yet.
march update will be a good stress test.

Avatar.1923:

Raine.1394:

Avatar.1923:

Raine.1394:

Avatar.1923:

there is no forced grind.
you dont need “BiS” to get into any of the game content (fotm lvl 20+ aside… but hey…).
you can rock orr with your exo and probably be the best player in wvw with your exo.

do the test.
check you “ascended hp” difference. its nothing. 100-200hp??
and your dmg? 40-50 more?

geez people, wake up!
the game is vast and nearly totally horizontal!
do an alt, do pvp, wvw, guild mission, map complete, whatever!

I can help you here. Can you give me the definition of vertical progression and it’s role in game design? According to Anet, post 11/15 we have vertical progression. It’s a straightforward concept. Can you explain it by defining it and describing it’s function?

there is a vertical progression. but i dont feel that the “gear” will “gate” the content.
will you be 2-3% better ? maybe.
but you can still do whatever you enjoy without a gear gate once you reach 80.

I didn’t ask you how much the initial pieces increased the power level of the game, I asked you to define vertical progression and describe it’s function in a game. Until you are able to articulate it yourself you will continue to say that it’s optional and disseminate misinformation on forums. Are you able to define and describe the function of vertical progression? I can understand why you wouldn’t want to go there and sincerely doubt you will.

vertical progression; basically a term that became popular because of mmos and players who play too much to define “endgame”. a vertical progression means that your Avatar will get stronger, have a satistical advantage, over another player over time.
function; because some players need to know their Avatar is getting statistically stronger as they play.

Now.

my question;
yes there is a vertical progression in gw2, but it is so minimal that it becomes as optional as achievement points, or pvp ranks, or qty of lvl 80 toons you have.
would you agree with that statement?

…
btw i answered your question “because you asked”.
it would be nice if you could answer mine.

Before we are ready for questions from you we need to bring mine to completion. And, once we do all your questions will be answered as well.

You’ve made an excellent start in using the term ‘stronger’ and ‘statistical advantage’ to describe aspects of vertical progression. The etymology is a bit confused. The term didn’t originate because of mmo’s and players who play too much and while it exists in ‘endgame’, it does not define end game. But, let’s work with what we have.

You have the function, though only partially. It is about providing motivation for continued play through adding stat numbers to the character sheet (getting stronger). You have something to work for. And, it also gives a sense of progression in that you’ve accomplished something and have the numbers to prove it.

Let’s do a thought experiment that should get you thinking enough to both provide a simple definition and answer your question to me. Let’s suppose we have two players, you and that other guy you mention who plays to “get stronger, have a satistical advantage, over another player over time”. And let’s suppose he chooses to ride the treadmill and you don’t. He gets stronger over time and you don’t. He has a growing statistical advantage over you over time and you have a growing statistical disadvantage vis-a-vis him over time. Let’s assume time passes; it always does. To spice things up, let’s suppose you both like to duel each other. What will be your experience dueling him over time? Take a few minutes to consider this. Then, give me a simple concise definition of vertical progression. I’ll even give you a hint here: it exists within the definition of the words that make up the concept.

Raine.1394:

Before we are ready for questions from you we need to bring mine to completion. And, once we do all your questions will be answered as well.

You’ve made an excellent start in using the term ‘stronger’ and ‘statistical advantage’ to describe aspects of vertical progression. The etymology is a bit confused. The term didn’t originate because of mmo’s and players who play too much and while it exists in ‘endgame’, it does not define end game. But, let’s work with what we have.

You have the function, though only partially. It is about providing motivation for continued play through adding stat numbers to the character sheet (getting stronger). You have something to work for. And, it also gives a sense of progression in that you’ve accomplished something and have the numbers to prove it.

Let’s do a thought experiment that should get you thinking enough to both provide a simple definition and answer your question to me. Let’s suppose we have two players, you and that other guy you mention who plays to “get[s] stronger, have a satistical advantage, over another player over time”. And let’s suppose he chooses to ride the treadmill and you don’t. He gets stronger over time and you don’t. He has a growing statistical advantage over you over time and you have a growing statistical disadvantage vis-a-vis him over time. Let’s assume time passes; it always does. To spice things up, let’s suppose you both like to duel each other. What will be your experience dueling him over time? Take a few minutes to consider this. Then, give me a simple concise definition of vertical progression. I’ll even give you a hint here: it exists within the definition of the words that make up the concept.

my answer;
if he spent x amount of hours (probably a Kitten lot, otherwise we wouldnt be having this discussion) to be somewhat statistically stronger than me (i’m saying “somewhat” because as it is now it isnt much, and as he gets his gear i get some too once in a while), then i dont care.
i ve spent this huge X amount of hours having fun (and probably getting some gear in the process too) instead of raging and complaining. so if i duel him with a “5%” more or less disadvantage… no sweat, ill beat him easily as i probably have a lot more skills since i did pvp, wvw, dungeons, jump puzzle, alts etc, and that guy only “farmed” the same thing over and over again.

that goes back to my original point; 5% more or less (considering i might have about a third of the ascended piece he have, and all not infused) is a very small increase that requires way too much grind for whats it worth.
its allright that some players need it and fall into the trap.
(gw2 designers are smart).

and now answer my question and youll answer yours at the same time.

Hexgame.4802:

I’ll just leave this here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKtGxVj3msM

The game they are describing is the opposite of GW2 in every way. My favorite quote was “As a structure the mmo has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero, everybody around you is doing the same thing you are doing, the boss you just killed respawns 10 minutes later. It doesn’t care that I’m there”.

I could not help but remember the respawn timer on the Champion Cave Troll in Queensdale (which I had to kill 5 times per day for a month to get my ascended necklace) is 10 minutes.

Also the argument that its perfectly ok that Guild Wars 2 is the grindiest MMO in the history of the genre because they didn’t bother to make any challenging end game content that would require the gear you obtain from grinding is, well, kind of sad.

Avatar.1923:

Raine.1394:

Before we are ready for questions from you we need to bring mine to completion. And, once we do all your questions will be answered as well.

You’ve made an excellent start in using the term ‘stronger’ and ‘statistical advantage’ to describe aspects of vertical progression. The etymology is a bit confused. The term didn’t originate because of mmo’s and players who play too much and while it exists in ‘endgame’, it does not define end game. But, let’s work with what we have.

You have the function, though only partially. It is about providing motivation for continued play through adding stat numbers to the character sheet (getting stronger). You have something to work for. And, it also gives a sense of progression in that you’ve accomplished something and have the numbers to prove it.

Let’s do a thought experiment that should get you thinking enough to both provide a simple definition and answer your question to me. Let’s suppose we have two players, you and that other guy you mention who plays to “get[s] stronger, have a satistical advantage, over another player over time”. And let’s suppose he chooses to ride the treadmill and you don’t. He gets stronger over time and you don’t. He has a growing statistical advantage over you over time and you have a growing statistical disadvantage vis-a-vis him over time. Let’s assume time passes; it always does. To spice things up, let’s suppose you both like to duel each other. What will be your experience dueling him over time? Take a few minutes to consider this. Then, give me a simple concise definition of vertical progression. I’ll even give you a hint here: it exists within the definition of the words that make up the concept.

my answer;
if he spent x amount of hours (probably a Kitten lot, otherwise we wouldnt be having this discussion) to be somewhat statistically stronger than me (i’m saying “somewhat” because as it is now it isnt much, and as he gets his gear i get some too once in a while), then i dont care.
i ve spent this huge X amount of hours having fun (and probably getting some gear in the process too) instead of raging and complaining. so if i duel him with a “5%” more or less disadvantage… no sweat, ill beat him easily as i probably have a lot more skills since i did pvp, wvw, dungeons, jump puzzle, alts etc, and that guy only “farmed” the same thing over and over again.

that goes back to my original point; 5% more or less (considering i might have about a third of the ascended piece he have, and all not infused) is a very small increase that requires way too much grind for whats it worth.
its allright that some players need it and fall into the trap.
(gw2 designers are smart).

and now answer my question and youll answer yours at the same time.

Ugh your response has too many assumptions to be taken seriously. It doesn’t even answer the questions provided by the person you quoted. Way to strawman your way out this one!