Guild Wars 2

Rich.9503:

Bioware did the same by adding a new ending to Mass effect 3 after enough people complained. The voices of the community were so damaging that they had to take notice. Bioware gained my respect after that. It showed they are as human as the rest of us and can make mistakes and really do care about their fans. I believe Anet has made a mistake with this patch and the community should show there dissatisfaction. I believe Anet can make amends if they really wanted to.

I know nothing about the Bioware situation other than the people I know of who didn’t like the game still didn’t like the game just because the ending was changed. See: Shamus Young.

I’m not going to speak to what I think of it because, frankly, I’m too far in ignorance of that situation to make an opinion.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

dalendria.3762:

Other gaming companies that introduced a new feature that the core customer base hated did rollback. EVE Online, LOTRO.

Unfortunately, Sony did not when they introduced NGE into Star Wars Galaxies. The president later admitted that it was a bad change and hurt the game/their financial model. But it was too late and the game was officially closed down last year.

Yeah, thing is, I really don’t see a rollback helping in this case. I really do expect it won’t do anything to score them any points and will only make more people upset. It might remove the thing that everyone was complaining about, but it runs the very significant risk of alienating the people who made progress during the time between the time of rollback and the time it’s rolled back to.

And if they do a rollback, it tells the people here that if they complain long and loud enough about something they can force the devs to cave in. Whether or not it is the right thing to do in this particular case . . . it sets a bad precedent later on.

There is already precedent for that – as they themselves acknowledged, they added the ascended tier because some people were complaining about the lack of end-game content (let’s for a moment ignore the part where they equated new gear to new content).
And there were several very good suggestions on forums about what can be done with the problem without necessarily removing ascended items from the game. Those suggestions were ignored – as well as any attempt to get devs to speak clearly what is their current vision of this game’s future.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I am not using that loop to suggest “you can only not fly with your bare arms if you haven’t tried hard enough”. Some things are, in fact, physically impossible. Social problems are not in that category, they can be fought against.

Social troubles cannot be resolved if we’re not willing to remove their underlying cause. As long as Anet is unwilling to even discuss that, the only other way to resolve that social problem is to remove the whole society that is troubled.

Shayde.2564:

I posted this in another thread. I just made the Ascended backpack, here’s a comparison to my old one:

Guild Assassin Backpack of the Berserker
20 power
14 Precision
1% Crit damage
25 Power
3% Crit damage
15 Precision

Quiver of Swift Flight
24 Power
17 Precision
1% Crit damage
32 Power
4% Crit damage
18 Precision

The stats are 20-25% increase, apply that to every piece of armor and weapons and I think you’ll agree it’s going to be a problem in WvWvW.

There’s the problem with the numbers people are throwing around.

You cannot take the stats of one set of items, say the provide a stats increase of 20% and say it breaks the game.

If you want the numbers to mean something, you take the stats and compare it to the full character base stats. Say for example you have 2000 vit, and with the inclusion of an ascended ring you now have 2005… whats that increase? How much of a difference will that make in WvW? (which by its very nature will never be balanced, and no 1v1 battle will ever be on equal footing as skill will still play a major role in a players effectiveness)

The overall stats increase is barely noticeable for one piece of armour. Now do that for each piece of equipment available (currently max of 3) and you will get a much better representation of the stats increase. The items wont benefit you as much as many assume it will.

You currently cannot go an spout numbers of unreleased gear as we simply do not know the mechanics of how they will work (Runes and Sigils play a massive role in effectiveness of armour and weapons, one could assume they wont have the ability to upgrade ALL ascended gear, which could potentially make ascended gear less useful than exotics)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Samhayn.2385:

The whole issue could be nullified if they made ascended gear available they wvw.

Make it purchasable thru badges, make badges auto loot when the target is downed, remove badges from pve stuff (jumping puzzle awards more badges then actualy fighting. Really?)

I thought they said they have plans to, but hadn’t rolled it out yet.

Thats exactly what they said, but people lack patience. The core reason I believe they rolled with accessories to be released first was because its easier to balance them out. Armour and weapons have Runes and Sigils, vs Jewels, so what stats will be included in the base stats of an Ascended Armour or Weapons? They are likely figuring it out, as it’s highly unlikely they will build in Ascended gear with Rune bonuses and the like. (the sheer number of combinations would actually make this impractical and I assume the major disadvantage of Ascended gear will end up being the lack of Runes and Sigils.)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Leonard.2867:

Thing bring Material not loops. Tell a woman with breast cancer that same line and see where the real insult is.

I wouldn’t TELL a woman with breast cancer that line that bluntly. I would tell my own mother that line, but that’s because she needs a swift kick sometimes to get her self-motivation in gear.

I would also advise you not equate this . . . the forum and the game we are talking about . . . to something like cancer/HIV. That cheapens what those people are going through and it isn’t fair to them.

I am not using that loop to suggest “you can only not fly with your bare arms if you haven’t tried hard enough”. Some things are, in fact, physically impossible. Social problems are not in that category, they can be fought against.

And not being accepted for a PUG over not having good enough gear? That’s not a problem revolving around the gear, it revolves around the people. It’s the same as “LF2M, no rangers”. Or, if you prefer: “LF1M, must speak English”, “Underworld, LF1M, pay 1 plat for admission”, “Recruiting for [Guild], must be L80, 18+, and have Vent.”

Don’t care what you tell your mother. My analogy does not degrade. What does physically impossible have to do with any topic? The fumes on this thread is not social problems. If your having trouble of getting in a PuG because of lack of gear, then why are you defending the new gear and leveling seeking? Is English the problem? The GW1 Underworld comment you just made is the reason people are fuming. Are you not level 80, over 18, and have Vent? <- Does last sentence even matter? No.

What matters is
-Gated Communities
-Tier Gear
-LFG/M Fotm lvl ‘x’ has replaced LF Tank/Healer
-More Grind
-Againts Anet’s Mission Statement, no matter how small
-etc…

Razarei.2809:

Shayde.2564:

I posted this in another thread. I just made the Ascended backpack, here’s a comparison to my old one:

Guild Assassin Backpack of the Berserker
20 power
14 Precision
1% Crit damage
25 Power
3% Crit damage
15 Precision

Quiver of Swift Flight
24 Power
17 Precision
1% Crit damage
32 Power
4% Crit damage
18 Precision

The stats are 20-25% increase, apply that to every piece of armor and weapons and I think you’ll agree it’s going to be a problem in WvWvW.

An increase of 4 stats points from rare to ascended = gamebreaking?

The lols is mighty on this one.

For the sheer majority of the forums who don’t understand game mechanics, you think an extra 36 points (ring ring backpack) is going to be the deciding factor in a fight?

Wow. Just wow.

This is just the beginning, wait until there are full sets.

The stats isnt the only issue or the major one, the major issue are the options to obtain the new gear, oh wait sorry, the option, since there is really only one.

That forces people to do a minimum of uhm 35 dungeons in order to have even a chance at a ring, and that is if everything works like it should with no disconnects or crashes, in which case you pretty much need to start over. And if you really dont want to PvE just to stay competative in PvP its a pain in the rear regions.

I had to do 10 dungeons with my mesmer just to get past lvl 1 since people crashed and got d/c so much and couldnt get back in.

Currently its not an option to do anything if you want top gear for WvW. A place where you do actually need it if you arent a mindless zerger.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Missy.7356:

This all comes down to added stats.. however small its still there,

I beg you to indulge a question. These two items might possibly exist, so you tell me which is better.

+61 Power
+44 Precison
+3% Critical Damage

or

+44 Power
+61 Precision
+44 Condition Damage.

Take your time.

You make multiple posts arguing with peoples valid concerns and then you post this.
You didn’t even remotely know what you was talking about and then you had the arrogance to type “Take your time”.
Was it Troll gone wrong or something?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

dalendria.3762:

Other gaming companies that introduced a new feature that the core customer base hated did rollback. EVE Online, LOTRO.

Unfortunately, Sony did not when they introduced NGE into Star Wars Galaxies. The president later admitted that it was a bad change and hurt the game/their financial model. But it was too late and the game was officially closed down last year.

Yeah, thing is, I really don’t see a rollback helping in this case. I really do expect it won’t do anything to score them any points and will only make more people upset. It might remove the thing that everyone was complaining about, but it runs the very significant risk of alienating the people who made progress during the time between the time of rollback and the time it’s rolled back to.

And if they do a rollback, it tells the people here that if they complain long and loud enough about something they can force the devs to cave in. Whether or not it is the right thing to do in this particular case . . . it sets a bad precedent later on.

Understand and even agree with you. It is one of the reasons that companies with sound marketing strategies do not radically change the core features of their product.

So if a rollback is not an option, how do they fix this mess?

People who bought and loved the game because it did not have “gear stat progression” are starting to leave, begun getting refunds or have stopped using the cash shop. People who wanted it have it but how long will they play and will they make cash shop purchases. And dissatisfied customers are posting negative feedback about this on retail sites – potential customers may be discouraged from buying the game.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I know nothing about the Bioware situation other than the people I know of who didn’t like the game still didn’t like the game just because the ending was changed. See: Shamus Young.

I’m not going to speak to what I think of it because, frankly, I’m too far in ignorance of that situation to make an opinion.

Its well documented if one is willing to look. Personally i liked it even before the new ending, but that’s another matter. But what it shows is that if enough people show displeasure over a games direction it can be changed if the developers are willing to listen. For the fans our voice is all we have, its our only weapon. No matter how many times they silence us we should never give in, because only then does it really set a bad precedent later on.

Astralporing.1957:

Social troubles cannot be resolved if we’re not willing to remove their underlying cause. As long as Anet is unwilling to even discuss that, the only other way to resolve that social problem is to remove the whole society that is troubled.

The underlying cause is, in my opinion, based on conjecture and preconceptions. (I’m not saying “baseless” because there is a base, but we’re seeing people go way out beyond the mark.)

This sort of problem was going on before Ascended was even hinted at, and it was going on in GW1. I do not think you can just say it is only a problem now due to Ascended existing and being developed. The kind of elitism which is bred out in this case simply has more fuel to power their notions, but it’s still . . . in my opinion . . . a misplaced expectancy that some metric is the only important measure of someone’s worth.

dalendria.3762:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

dalendria.3762:

Other gaming companies that introduced a new feature that the core customer base hated did rollback. EVE Online, LOTRO.

Unfortunately, Sony did not when they introduced NGE into Star Wars Galaxies. The president later admitted that it was a bad change and hurt the game/their financial model. But it was too late and the game was officially closed down last year.

Yeah, thing is, I really don’t see a rollback helping in this case. I really do expect it won’t do anything to score them any points and will only make more people upset. It might remove the thing that everyone was complaining about, but it runs the very significant risk of alienating the people who made progress during the time between the time of rollback and the time it’s rolled back to.

And if they do a rollback, it tells the people here that if they complain long and loud enough about something they can force the devs to cave in. Whether or not it is the right thing to do in this particular case . . . it sets a bad precedent later on.

Understand and even agree with you. It is one of the reasons that companies with sound marketing strategies do not radically change the core features of their product.

So if a rollback is not an option, how do they fix this mess?

People who bought and loved the game because it did not have “gear stat progression” are starting to leave, begun getting refunds or have stopped using the cash shop. People who wanted it have it but how long will they play and will they make cash shop purchases. And dissatisfied customers are posting negative feedback about this on retail sites – potential customers may be discouraged from buying the game.

How would I fix this?

1. Come out and explicitly state that Accended gear is the end all gear. Nothing over this.
2. Create other venues of aquiring the gear besides just the dungeon in a reasonable manner. The recipes now are way over board and need adjusting. To me I would make the recipes slightly larger than the exotic by just uping some of the ingredients by lets say 10 or so more for each item. Be able to obtain the gear through WVW with badges.
I know they have mentioned adding other areas to acquire in the future but this need to be done right now. Again at a sensible amount to acquire.

However if they keep the insane requirments to obtain this gear, they might as well bring out a dungeon finder to then. I have not had much time to run fractals so I am still at level 1. Spending over an hour to try to find a group now is insane. If I have 2 hours to play and it takes over an hour to get a group, why bother since we probably will not finish the fractals level in that time.
They are not hard, done 4 of them quite easily, just a matter of some time and people not DCing all the time.

I guess we weill see where this goes. I have vowed though not to spend any more money in the cash shop because of this. I was spending anywhere from 50 to 200 dollars a month on this game and now nothing. They need to ask themselves who do we want in the game, a more hardcore person that probably will not spend much, if any on the cash shop since they can get everything in the game or a more casual that is willing to spend more for looks and convenience.

Just my two cents

dalendria.3762:

If I knew how to fix this mess I’d be starting a thread about it like everyone else. I don’t know where to begin thinking of an answer other than a rollback but I don’t think it will solve the problems. I don’t have a big magic bullet answer because I don’t have all the information (and no, nobody here does, only the devs have all the information about what’s coming up or what they have/had planned).

The review bombs I already addressed – this is a very poor way to do things and it has the potential to explode in ways not intended.

How do you fix this mess? Frankly, if Ascended had been in the primary build when it was released this wouldn’t be as big an issue. The fact it was added on the first actual major content update was perhaps not a well-reasoned move but I expect there are other reasons I don’t know.

A half-reasoned fix from my corner would be to release Ascended as planned, broaden the ability to receive it so it’s not tied to just participation in Fractals, and make sure the next major event planned goes smoothly so people know you’re on top of things. Delay it if it needs more time, but it must go smoothly. Once December arrives do something fun and fluffy for Wintersday, and hold off major content patches for a time so people can settle into a sort of normalcy before shaking it up again.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Samhayn.2385:

The whole issue could be nullified if they made ascended gear available they wvw.

Make it purchasable thru badges, make badges auto loot when the target is downed, remove badges from pve stuff (jumping puzzle awards more badges then actualy fighting. Really?)

I thought they said they have plans to, but hadn’t rolled it out yet.

Anet said it will be available thru wvw. I’m just pushin to have it sooner rather then later and maybe In the future they will bring both out at the same time to avoid the mess we currently have.

Rich.9503:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I know nothing about the Bioware situation other than the people I know of who didn’t like the game still didn’t like the game just because the ending was changed. See: Shamus Young.

I’m not going to speak to what I think of it because, frankly, I’m too far in ignorance of that situation to make an opinion.

Its well documented if one is willing to look. Personally i liked it even before the new ending, but that’s another matter. But what it shows is that if enough people show displeasure over a games direction it can be changed if the developers are willing to listen. For the fans our voice is all we have, its our only weapon. No matter how many times they silence us we should never give in, because only then does it really set a bad precedent later on.

I have looked, I’ve read and heard plenty of opinions on it. I mentioned Shamus Young a few times elsewhere, also Chuck Sonnenberg has taken shots at it, Noah Antwiler, Joe Vargas . . . and these are just people whose opinions entered my awareness not through having actually sought it out.

I say I have ignorance because . . . and this is important . . . I never played any of the games. I have no context with which to judge whether or not all these people are overreacting, underreacting, or whatever. So I consciously avoid assuming they’re absolutely right.

Eveningstar.6940:

The OP is talking about how the forum community went from relatively civil to almost exclusively flooded with a front page of angry, baffled or hostile threads. Frankly I agree. It’s depressing.

Cause and effect my friend. They ruined our favourite game and made us angry, confused and hostile. Before they ruined it we were happy, jovial care bears looking forward to years of playing a game we loved. Sure, there was the odd bit of banter here and there about ‘no end game’ and ‘x class is OP’, but that’s just part of being an active community. It was all going so well… Then , out of nowhere, Ascended gear happened.

I just hope they learn from this mistake.

Andy.3950:

You make multiple posts arguing with peoples valid concerns and then you post this.
You didn’t even remotely know what you was talking about and then you had the arrogance to type “Take your time”.
Was it Troll gone wrong or something?

I argue because I don’t agree with them, not because I want to troll. I genuinely do not agree with their assessment, ankittenrying to figure out why they’re coming to this conclusion.

That wasn’t precisely “arrogance”, because the first time I saw the two sets of stats I wound up weighing it for a while in my head before making a decision. I probably made the wrong one, too.

To reiterate my position:
From what little I have seen of the Ascended items, I believe the statistical advantage is less important than people are making it out to be. Especially in WvWvW, where . . . and this was drummed into me through several actual attempts . . . you do not attempt to take someone 1v1. Comparing things 1v1 is not a good metric to use, because people generally don’t fight that way if it can be helped.
The problem with people barring people without “good gear” from participating in their groups is not solely because the Ascended items exist, because it was going on beforehand. It is a social problem with how people reason, fueled by the concept that having the top tier gear means you know what you’re doing or are exceedingly powerful. This is a mistaken assumption to make, a statement I will make without qualifier; all that gear means nothing if they turn out not to know what they’re doing.

I am holding to this discussion and not shutting up only because I really need to understand . . . why I should feel dirty for playing this game and enjoying the time I play? Why should the guilt rear up and smack me around because I actually take part in events and such with sub-par equipment? Why should we be calling for a blood price from ArenaNet?

Samhayn.2385:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Samhayn.2385:

The whole issue could be nullified if they made ascended gear available they wvw.

Make it purchasable thru badges, make badges auto loot when the target is downed, remove badges from pve stuff (jumping puzzle awards more badges then actualy fighting. Really?)

I thought they said they have plans to, but hadn’t rolled it out yet.

Anet said it will be available thru wvw. I’m just pushin to have it sooner rather then later and maybe In the future they will bring both out at the same time to avoid the mess we currently have.

I agree this multiple-staged release is part of the issue because we have this speculation about what the full Ascended picture might look like and we don’t know for sure yet. If we did know for sure, I’d be a lot more secure in saying “I don’t think it’s as dire as all that”.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Andy.3950:

You make multiple posts arguing with peoples valid concerns and then you post this.
You didn’t even remotely know what you was talking about and then you had the arrogance to type “Take your time”.
Was it Troll gone wrong or something?

I argue because I don’t agree with them, not because I want to troll. I genuinely do not agree with their assessment, ankittenrying to figure out why they’re coming to this conclusion.

That wasn’t precisely “arrogance”, because the first time I saw the two sets of stats I wound up weighing it for a while in my head before making a decision. I probably made the wrong one, too.

To reiterate my position:
From what little I have seen of the Ascended items, I believe the statistical advantage is less important than people are making it out to be. Especially in WvWvW, where . . . and this was drummed into me through several actual attempts . . . you do not attempt to take someone 1v1. Comparing things 1v1 is not a good metric to use, because people generally don’t fight that way if it can be helped.
The problem with people barring people without “good gear” from participating in their groups is not solely because the Ascended items exist, because it was going on beforehand. It is a social problem with how people reason, fueled by the concept that having the top tier gear means you know what you’re doing or are exceedingly powerful. This is a mistaken assumption to make, a statement I will make without qualifier; all that gear means nothing if they turn out not to know what they’re doing.

I am holding to this discussion and not shutting up only because I really need to understand . . . why I should feel dirty for playing this game and enjoying the time I play? Why should the guilt rear up and smack me around because I actually take part in events and such with sub-par equipment? Why should we be calling for a blood price from ArenaNet?

Do you even know what you are talking about now?
Explain that post and what you think you posted.

Sardonia.8196:

1. Come out and explicitly state that Accended gear is the end all gear. Nothing over this.

2. Create other venues of aquiring the gear besides just the dungeon in a reasonable manner. The recipes now are way over board and need adjusting. To me I would make the recipes slightly larger than the exotic by just uping some of the ingredients by lets say 10 or so more for each item. Be able to obtain the gear through WVW with badges.

1 – I would not make that announcement, because it’s really hard to be honest and make blanket denials. Sure, they may not care about honesty anymore since they’re already all sinners and liars . . . but words like “we have no plans at this time” should/will probably be used instead. YES it gives them room to add more in later. But it’s better than them outright saying “no we won’t do that” and then a year later going “You know how we said we wouldn’t? Well, now we’re going to have to take that back.”

2 – I’m suspecting this was planned but they rushed the gear out feeling it was necessary. By now I’ll say they miscalculated the reaction and now are paying for it with all this forum chatter. This is the only certain change I’d have made to how this was rolled out.

Leonard.2867:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I don’t think it’s “you people”. I think it’s a small knot of very disgruntled fans. This is the same kind of mentality as fans who will throw stuff on the field of a ball game when their team is losing . . . causing the game to be ended prematurely and with no chance to recover.

Those fans you are referring too are the fans who have either played GW1 and know the philosophy, or the fans who have accepted the GW1/2 Mission statement.

“Read my lips. No new taxes”
-George W. Bush

We pesky, principled people who believed what anet said. Flood online buying sites with your opinions about this injustice.. If they miss the holiday sales surge, they might change their ways.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Leonard.2867:

@Tobias Trueflight.8350

I’m sorry but I did not read your life story. I played GW1 from day one until my final deployment to Afghanistan in 2010. I stopped playing GW1 and tried WoW then went back to GW1. I stopped playing GW1 other times as well to either, enjoy real life or other non-mmo games. Either case, from the start, I always came back to GW1. I promise, that if Anet continues in the direction they are going, when I leave GW2, I wont come back unless they, at Anet, revert back to their Mission Statement. I did not go back to WoW, I went back to GW1 and now GW2.

“Has ArenaNet put something in the game which is against their manifesto? Are
Ascended items something they promised they wouldn’t do?”

First question yes, and it started with Legendary Weapons, hence so much animosity. Next question, I do not know. But I do know it was not GW1 and its not what I payed $80 for the game and another $50 on gems.

“Same answer to both situations. I don’t think it matters, but I can’t say for certain. I am neither clairvoyant nor am I capable of peering into alternate realities.”

It does matter, otherwise the forums would be flooded with, “fix your bugs” and “your dungeons are still too hard” instead of, “WoWzerz Bowzerz Anet, OMG for real?”

I didn’t really expect anyone to read my life story. That’s just a selected fraction of it, mind you. My life story is quite boring and uninteresting, and I am relatively certain once I close the final chapter there will be nobody wanting to hear it. I made peace with that long ago.

Again, I disagree about “does it matter?” because I honestly don’t think it will make a difference. Legendaries didn’t make a difference, for all that they were highly grind-y. They’re there, you need to invest time and effort to get them, but in the end I’m not seeing a big compelling reason to chase them other than “because it’s there”.

Legendaries didn’t have 20+% better stats.

Columba.9730:

Leonard.2867:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I don’t think it’s “you people”. I think it’s a small knot of very disgruntled fans. This is the same kind of mentality as fans who will throw stuff on the field of a ball game when their team is losing . . . causing the game to be ended prematurely and with no chance to recover.

Those fans you are referring too are the fans who have either played GW1 and know the philosophy, or the fans who have accepted the GW1/2 Mission statement.

“Read my lips. No new taxes”
-George W. Bush

We pesky, principled people who believed what anet said. Flood online buying sites with your opinions about this injustice.. If they miss the holiday sales surge, they might change their ways.

So let me get this straight… you are actively trying to get a subset of players to actively sabotage a game that a vast majority actually enjoys to play? What will this accomplish really? Aside from making you look a tad selfish?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Samhayn.2385:

The whole issue could be nullified if they made ascended gear available they wvw.

Make it purchasable thru badges, make badges auto loot when the target is downed, remove badges from pve stuff (jumping puzzle awards more badges then actualy fighting. Really?)

I thought they said they have plans to, but hadn’t rolled it out yet.

“Over time…” Whatever that means, they should have done it from day 1.

tkalamba.2541:

Columba.9730:

Leonard.2867:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I don’t think it’s “you people”. I think it’s a small knot of very disgruntled fans. This is the same kind of mentality as fans who will throw stuff on the field of a ball game when their team is losing . . . causing the game to be ended prematurely and with no chance to recover.

Those fans you are referring too are the fans who have either played GW1 and know the philosophy, or the fans who have accepted the GW1/2 Mission statement.

“Read my lips. No new taxes”
-George W. Bush

We pesky, principled people who believed what anet said. Flood online buying sites with your opinions about this injustice.. If they miss the holiday sales surge, they might change their ways.

So let me get this straight… you are actively trying to get a subset of players to actively sabotage a game that a vast majority actually enjoys to play? What will this accomplish really? Aside from making you look a tad selfish?

Since when is writing honest reviews sabotage? If it pressures for the right change, then it’s good.

Columba.9730:

tkalamba.2541:

Columba.9730:

Leonard.2867:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I don’t think it’s “you people”. I think it’s a small knot of very disgruntled fans. This is the same kind of mentality as fans who will throw stuff on the field of a ball game when their team is losing . . . causing the game to be ended prematurely and with no chance to recover.

Those fans you are referring too are the fans who have either played GW1 and know the philosophy, or the fans who have accepted the GW1/2 Mission statement.

“Read my lips. No new taxes”
-George W. Bush

We pesky, principled people who believed what anet said. Flood online buying sites with your opinions about this injustice.. If they miss the holiday sales surge, they might change their ways.

So let me get this straight… you are actively trying to get a subset of players to actively sabotage a game that a vast majority actually enjoys to play? What will this accomplish really? Aside from making you look a tad selfish?

Since when is writing honest reviews sabotage? If it pressures for the right change, then it’s good.

Writing reviews isn’t, but attempting to start an organized campaign to intentionally make a game sound bad is. If people want to write a review they can, but campaigning for it is childish. Why not let people play the game on their own terms, and let them make their own opinions? They pay for the game once with no sub fee so really what harm is there in letting people experience the game. Some will enjoy it, some wont, but attempting to force your opinion on others is not the correct way to go about it.

tkalamba.2541:

Columba.9730:

tkalamba.2541:

Columba.9730:

Leonard.2867:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I don’t think it’s “you people”. I think it’s a small knot of very disgruntled fans. This is the same kind of mentality as fans who will throw stuff on the field of a ball game when their team is losing . . . causing the game to be ended prematurely and with no chance to recover.

Those fans you are referring too are the fans who have either played GW1 and know the philosophy, or the fans who have accepted the GW1/2 Mission statement.

“Read my lips. No new taxes”
-George W. Bush

We pesky, principled people who believed what anet said. Flood online buying sites with your opinions about this injustice.. If they miss the holiday sales surge, they might change their ways.

So let me get this straight… you are actively trying to get a subset of players to actively sabotage a game that a vast majority actually enjoys to play? What will this accomplish really? Aside from making you look a tad selfish?

Since when is writing honest reviews sabotage? If it pressures for the right change, then it’s good.

Writing reviews isn’t, but attempting to start an organized campaign to intentionally make a game sound bad is. If people want to write a review they can, but campaigning for it is childish. Why not let people play the game on their own terms, and let them make their own opinions? They pay for the game once with no sub fee so really what harm is there in letting people experience the game. Some will enjoy it, some wont, but attempting to force your opinion on others is not the correct way to go about it.

They are free to do what they want. I am suggesting a legal and effective outlet for their outrage. Forcing? How is this forcing? Lol

Andy.3950:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I argue because I don’t agree with them, not because I want to troll. I genuinely do not agree with their assessment, to figure out why they’re coming to this conclusion.

That wasn’t precisely “arrogance”, because the first time I saw the two sets of stats I wound up weighing it for a while in my head before making a decision. I probably made the wrong one, too.

To reiterate my position:
From what little I have seen of the Ascended items, I believe the statistical advantage is less important than people are making it out to be. Especially in WvWvW, where . . . and this was drummed into me through several actual attempts . . . you do not attempt to take someone 1v1. Comparing things 1v1 is not a good metric to use, because people generally don’t fight that way if it can be helped.
The problem with people barring people without “good gear” from participating in their groups is not solely because the Ascended items exist, because it was going on beforehand. It is a social problem with how people reason, fueled by the concept that having the top tier gear means you know what you’re doing or are exceedingly powerful. This is a mistaken assumption to make, a statement I will make without qualifier; all that gear means nothing if they turn out not to know what they’re doing.

I am holding to this discussion and not shutting up only because I really need to understand . . . why I should feel dirty for playing this game and enjoying the time I play? Why should the guilt rear up and smack me around because I actually take part in events and such with sub-par equipment? Why should we be calling for a blood price from ArenaNet?

Do you even know what you are talking about now?
Explain that post and what you think you posted.

Sigh.

I think I posted that I feel guilty for taking part in a game I enjoy, and these posts are me trying to discuss both my intellectual estimation of the problem and the trouble I have reconciling that for some people in the last few days merely saying “i had fun” is like saying “I eat babies”. It’s simply unacceptable to have fun, and that has me feeling less like having fun and more that I am wasting myself playing a game.

I think what I was trying to get across is that I don’t believe the same things some posters are saying is true. To be more precise, I don’t want to believe it because it doesn’t “feel right” to my sense of empathy and my innate optimism for humanity as a whole.

I think what I have been saying is that I view WvW from the position of someone who will never, EVER, be “elite” at it yet i have been present for both the bad “throw enough people and it’ll die” zerg rushes and the focused ones where organization permitted victories we probably shouldn’t have had by all rights. Those were my observations and I stick to them because they are, in fact, what conclusions I have drawn from what I have seen.

I continue to post out of a desire to become rich and famous and live in a manor made of Exotic gear nobody wants anymore with slave-asurans at my beck and call . . . no wait, someone gave me the wrong script.

I continue to post because I need to assure myself I am not crazy. I am losing that battle because every time I try to formulate things with my typey-fingers everyone seems to react like I said Michael Bay is an underrated genius and Lord of the Rings is a hack fantasy. Well, and actually meant it instead of being a sarcastic example.

I believe I have made abundantly clear I remain utterly mystified, perplexed, and unsettled that people are calling for “someone” to be fired over this debacle. I am especially unsettled by at least one note that it would be worth this game failing to take a certain company with it.

Do I know what I am talking about? Probably not. Do I know what I am saying? Yes, though I’m not entirely certain what you think I am saying. I’m pretty sure, though, you are completely convinced I don’t believe any of this and am posting just to get a rise out of people.

Now, am I confused about myself. No, I know what I am. I am, in essence, “nobody important, and never will be”. There is no future “fan club” for me for anything I do. I will never be a celebrity or have the spotlight thrust upon me with accolades for my genius. Nothing I say here will matter in three weeks’ time, nor will my opinions have any weight in anything at all. What I say here, and the conversations I am undertaking right now, are not for some grand crusade to prove I am right. These posts are not for you to marvel at my words and reconsider your position in the face of infallible logic.

No, these posts are for me to know whether I am sane for enjoying a game which obviously is so deeply flawed nobody in their right mind would enjoy.

Columba.9730:

tkalamba.2541:

Columba.9730:

tkalamba.2541:

Columba.9730:

Leonard.2867:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I don’t think it’s “you people”. I think it’s a small knot of very disgruntled fans. This is the same kind of mentality as fans who will throw stuff on the field of a ball game when their team is losing . . . causing the game to be ended prematurely and with no chance to recover.

Those fans you are referring too are the fans who have either played GW1 and know the philosophy, or the fans who have accepted the GW1/2 Mission statement.

“Read my lips. No new taxes”
-George W. Bush

We pesky, principled people who believed what anet said. Flood online buying sites with your opinions about this injustice.. If they miss the holiday sales surge, they might change their ways.

So let me get this straight… you are actively trying to get a subset of players to actively sabotage a game that a vast majority actually enjoys to play? What will this accomplish really? Aside from making you look a tad selfish?

Since when is writing honest reviews sabotage? If it pressures for the right change, then it’s good.

Writing reviews isn’t, but attempting to start an organized campaign to intentionally make a game sound bad is. If people want to write a review they can, but campaigning for it is childish. Why not let people play the game on their own terms, and let them make their own opinions? They pay for the game once with no sub fee so really what harm is there in letting people experience the game. Some will enjoy it, some wont, but attempting to force your opinion on others is not the correct way to go about it.

They are free to do what they want. I am suggesting a legal and effective outlet for their outrage. Forcing? How is this forcing? Lol

Telling people to flood online review sites is an attempt to force an opinion on the masses.

Columba.9730:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Samhayn.2385:

The whole issue could be nullified if they made ascended gear available they wvw.

Make it purchasable thru badges, make badges auto loot when the target is downed, remove badges from pve stuff (jumping puzzle awards more badges then actualy fighting. Really?)

I thought they said they have plans to, but hadn’t rolled it out yet.

“Over time…” Whatever that means, they should have done it from day 1.

This is a point you and I can agree on.

tkalamba.2541:

Telling people to flood online review sites is an attempt to force an opinion on the masses.

Forcing is pointing a gun to a person’s head. Do you do something just because Columba says it’s good? I hope not.

Missy.7356
This all comes down to added stats.. however small its still there,
Tobias Trueflight.8350
I beg you to indulge a question. These two items might possibly exist, so you tell me which is better.
+61 Power
+44 Precison
+3% Critical Damage
or
+44 Power
+61 Precision
+44 Condition Damage.
Take your time.

This post Tobias, explain this post.

Razarei.2809:

Shayde.2564:

I posted this in another thread. I just made the Ascended backpack, here’s a comparison to my old one:

Guild Assassin Backpack of the Berserker
20 power
14 Precision
1% Crit damage
25 Power
3% Crit damage
15 Precision

Quiver of Swift Flight
24 Power
17 Precision
1% Crit damage
32 Power
4% Crit damage
18 Precision

The stats are 20-25% increase, apply that to every piece of armor and weapons and I think you’ll agree it’s going to be a problem in WvWvW.

An increase of 4 stats points from rare to ascended = gamebreaking?

The lols is mighty on this one.

For the sheer majority of the forums who don’t understand game mechanics, you think an extra 36 points (ring ring backpack) is going to be the deciding factor in a fight?

Wow. Just wow.

Math is hard so let’s make a simplistic example.

The delta in the above gear is +11 power, +6 precision, +1% crit. Now extrapolate that to an imaginary Ascended chest piece using the same ratios: http://www.gw2db.com/items/57141-berserkers-draconic-coat becomes:
101—>121 Power
72—>86 Precision
5—->6-7% crit damage

Now we might be looking at +200-250 power with a full set of Ascended gear. Don’t forget to add +100 weapon damage, if Ascended weapons scale the same way as rares to exotics. No one is saying 3 pieces is game-breaking, but 13 might be.

MorceluLebeau.5109:

As a previous WoW player, I would go at times to read their General forums it was in fact a deterrent against ever wanting to go play that game, I would then come back to the GW2 forums, read the civilized and constructive posts and how everyone was for the most part happy with the game. It was great…

Now in a single weekend, that has all changed. 200+ thread filled with hate and animosity against Anet, people claiming Bait and Switch, A complete change of Guild Wars mechanics at its core..now…WoW not looking so bad anymore, because I see things over there that I know, classes I understand, mechanics I know..and I know where Blizzard stands on gear and grinding. I know Raids = best gear, Dailies = Grind, Dungeon Finder meaning I can skip questing…

Guild Wars…not sure what to expect anymore..and after bringing several friends from WoW to Guild Wars…I am afraid I may have done them a disservice.

It is a disservice in that they’ve thrown the manifesto right off a cliff. I dunno if they have new management over there or what but it’s so not exciting to see a new tier of armor when there were soooooo many problems with getting the original tier 6.

Drops off mobs being stealth nerfed, globs being stealth nerfed, diminished returns in open world. It’s ridiculous to even login now.

It’s like someone over there said…..“yeah, you know that original design you were working on, throw that out, we’re going to make our game like everyone else’s.”

It’s like I’m living in the twilight zone or something.

Urxx.6840:

tkalamba.2541:

Telling people to flood online review sites is an attempt to force an opinion on the masses.

Forcing is pointing a gun to a person’s head. Do you do something just because Columba says it’s good? I hope not.

I said it was an ‘attempt’, by actively campaigning to write negative reviews solely because you do not agree with the game is an attempt to sway the opinions of others. You are actively trying to impose what your beliefs are on potential buyers. Is he not suggesting that the reviews would ideally sway ANET to change the game once again? Wouldn’t that be considered an attempt to force that change?

A coordinated effort to write bad reviews is an ATTEMPT to force an opinion on potential buyers in a market. The reviews won’t be organic, but will still be taken into consideration just as proper organic reviews will be (organic refers to reviews that were written by a consumer genuinely and not part of a concerted effort, be it either negative or positive) I never said it would be effective, but it doesn’t stop it from being an attempt.

Go ahead, write reviews, I really don’t care, but understand that trying to tell people on a forum to go express their anger on review pages isn’t anything but an attempt to push their opinion on potential players.

All this serves in the end is to damage the community. Tell me, how many of the reviews will end up being objective? How many will be more than “OMG GW2 sux becuz Ascended gear”. In the end it’ll just make everyone that plays look bad.

Andy.3950:

Missy.7356
This all comes down to added stats.. however small its still there,
Tobias Trueflight.8350
I beg you to indulge a question. These two items might possibly exist, so you tell me which is better.
+61 Power
+44 Precison
+3% Critical Damage
or
+44 Power
+61 Precision
+44 Condition Damage.
Take your time.

This post Tobias, explain this post.

It appears to be a post asking for a comparison of two different sets of statistics and a question about which one was better. The two things in question appear to be prefixes for Ancient Wood Inscriptions to be crafted onto one-handed weapons, though I might be mistaken.

I believe the question is a matter of how to weigh statistics which are obviously not equal to each other, so that you come to a conclusion of which is “better” and a request to please not rush to post “A is obviously better” without offering reasoning.

No, wait, I’m probably not reading it right. What do you think?

The amount of appeasement and apologists on these boards is amazing. Least we not forget that many people bought this game not to put up with a vertical gear grind.

By all means let them walk all over you and talk out the sides of their mouths and put up with it. I for one will not let that slide, there is no way that I can recommend this game to my friends and there is no way I will spend one more dime on this game.

If your the kind of person who will let a company slide after they blatantly lie to you only to squeeze more money out, then your weak and a lemming.

If you don’t like the course the game is on, you do have recourse. Don’t spend another dime and get a refund. I will do the latter if they don’t rescind this garbage. I’m giving them a couple of weeks to make a decision, then I’m going to make it for them.

I have nothing against the ppl who like vertical progression, and its not a me vrs them situation. Its was. I was lied to and I won’t put up with corporate greed.

As far as ppl possibly losing their jobs over this. That is not my concern, and its the peril of working for a dishonest corporation. They get what they get. Its a clear case of “killing them with their love” to paraphrase The Green Mile.

At this point, I have no problem seeing ppl take a proactive campaign against this company even if ppl lose jobs. ANet deserves it.

tkalamba.2541:

I said it was an ‘attempt’, by actively campaigning to write negative reviews solely because you do not agree with the game is an attempt to sway the opinions of others.

A lot of people are in fact giving very bad reviews on Amazon based on the fact ArenaNet has changed their phylosophy and they feel betrayed. But they aren’t doing so because they are Columba’s mindless zombies army.

They do so because they simply agree that what happened wasn’t ethical on ArenaNet’s part, and that was a move they didn’t expect.

Urxx.6840:

tkalamba.2541:

I said it was an ‘attempt’, by actively campaigning to write negative reviews solely because you do not agree with the game is an attempt to sway the opinions of others.

A lot of poeple are in fact giving very bad reviews on Amazon based on the fact ArenaNet has changed their phylosophy and they feel betrayed. But they aren’t doing so because they are Columba’s mindless zombies army.

They do so because they simply agree that what happened wasn’t ethical on ArenaNet’s part, and that was a move they didn’t expect.

I understand, my only issue is really telling people to go out and do it. Let them decide for themselves. It’s annoying, and just makes everyone look bad.

edited for my horrible spelling

When Guild Wars 2 was announced with their goals, intentions and very importantly, their manifesto, everyone had a good image and impression on what game is all going to be about. Guild Wars 2 was going to be a game with its own rules, its own setting, its own environment.

The problem is somehow, in the world of MMOs, people are more than conservative about the concepts of what an MMO should be. Everything seems to stem from the mould of EQ and gamers can’t seem to ever let go. Is this a problem? Perhaps.

Gamers talk a lot about how they constantly want something different. They whine about how this is a clone, that is a copy, this is a rip-off, but ultimately look at the sales figures. Quake, Halo, Half-life, Call of Duty, shooter after shooter comes out each year. Same old concept copied over and over. Yet it continually sells. We are such hypocrits. We keep yelling at the games companies for new IP, for new ideas, for new concepts, but really we only want the games companies to tweak it to our taste. And we will keep yelling until something fits in our exact hole for their peg to squeeze in. New IP has continually shown to fail or sell poorly. We haven’t been able to put our money where our mouths are.

With Guild Wars 2, the developers started out well. They showed us previews, they gave us trailers, they posted blogs and they actively engaged in the community. Very importantly, they announced a manifesto, something very few developers dare do.

There is a problem with manifestos though. People attach a lot of importance to them. It becomes a promise made by them to us. It becomes an established standard of what you should expect from this game. It was the rules of the game to us.

Games around the world all have established rules. Tennis has set rules for players to play by and follow. Football has rules for your gear and how to play. Basketball has rules on the court, how to play, the ball size, etc. All games have rules. You learn the rules, you stick by the rules and you play the game by the rules. Rules do sometimes change, but has anyone seen any rule change that turns a game into something you don’t recognize?

Guild Wars 2 tried to be different. The manifesto showed us that. It was a game that established a few groundrules that we expected to be followed. Problem stems with us. Gamers are too conservative. There is a concept of MMOs that must be followed and Guild Wars 2 did not follow it. The extreme few yelled loudly enough about it and now we see Ascended gear thrust upon us.

What did that ultimately prove? History shows many MMOs promising plenty at the beginning and changing direction a few months or years into the game, turning into something that is wasn’t meant to be. Yet why is it MMOs can continue to persist in such changes? MMO histories have shown that such major changes have rarely ever worked for the better. Apart from 1, every MMO has consistently showed that such changes always worked against the MMO. Somehow, MMOs persist in this behavior, self-destructive as they may be. It is almost like not only do gamers remain overly conservative in their mindsets, but developers are also unable to break the mould of continually doing more of the same.

Ultimately, the outcry over Ascended gear is that the manifesto promised no gear progression. Gear progression eventually crept in. The outcry is expected. However should I be continually surprised that this would happen? I guess I should be jaded enough to know that throughout the history of MMOs, the more they try to be different, the more they end up converging as much as possible.

Still, doesn’t mean I have to like what has happened.

Just imagine the outcry if Americans watching soccer wondered why if soccer is called football around the world, and yet you couldn’t run with the ball, whined loudly enough that FIFA changed the rules of soccer to allow you to run with the ball. I can imagine the world will not tolerate it.

In the world of MMOs, we always tolerate such changes. Maybe the reason it happens is us.

tkalamba.2541:

Urxx.6840:

tkalamba.2541:

I said it was an ‘attempt’, by actively campaigning to write negative reviews solely because you do not agree with the game is an attempt to sway the opinions of others.

A lot of poeple are in fact giving very bad reviews on Amazon based on the fact ArenaNet has changed their phylosophy and they feel betrayed. But they aren’t doing so because they are Columba’s mindless zombies army.

They do so because they simply agree that what happened wasn’t ethical on ArenaNet’s part, and that was a move they didn’t expect.

I understand, my only issue is really telling people to go out and do it. Let them decide for themselves. It’s annoying, and just makes everyone look bad.

edited for my horrible spelling

ehm no. YOU look to players as uniformed people. Buy and try.
A wise player take a game based on:advertise and reviews, now if a game have a substantial modification on it core stats, all the old advertise, and all the old rewievs become wrong!
Yeah there are are people that make very bad rewiev now, based on their anger state, but a wise buyer that read a massive negative critics, search more information before decide what to do.

Dont buy a product only because you see a lot of ppl that say :this game suck, anet lie etc etc etc, is for lazy people, the same kind of people that buy a game and they stop to play it after 1 week or after hitting the lvl 80 because there is nothing to do after beating the max level.

“I understand, my only issue is really telling people to go out and do it. Let them decide for themselves. It’s annoying, and just makes everyone look bad.”

I could not disagree more. If I was perusing web sites to get opinions about a game, what I want to see is the truth. Here is the truth, ANet lied to us. Get it? I don’t even need to see one word about the game play.

All I need to see is that these guys did a 180 and introduced a gear grind when they said explicitly in the past there would be none.

You are complaining that ppl encourage others to go out and tell, the absolute unadulterated truth. There is nothing wrong with that so long as it is the truth. I feel sorry for you that you can’t take a stand when it comes to telling the truth.

Andy.3950:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Andy.3950:

Missy.7356
This all comes down to added stats.. however small its still there,
Tobias Trueflight.8350
I beg you to indulge a question. These two items might possibly exist, so you tell me which is better.
+61 Power
+44 Precison
+3% Critical Damage
or
+44 Power
+61 Precision
+44 Condition Damage.
Take your time.

This post Tobias, explain this post.

It appears to be a post asking for a comparison of two different sets of statistics and a question about which one was better. The two things in question appear to be prefixes for Ancient Wood Inscriptions to be crafted onto one-handed weapons, though I might be mistaken.

I believe the question is a matter of how to weigh statistics which are obviously not equal to each other, so that you come to a conclusion of which is “better” and a request to please not rush to post “A is obviously better” without offering reasoning.

No, wait, I’m probably not reading it right. What do you think?

This is a joke right?

You have more to say than to keep leaving one sentence posts to me, right?

Ganzo.5079:

tkalamba.2541:

Urxx.6840:

tkalamba.2541:

I said it was an ‘attempt’, by actively campaigning to write negative reviews solely because you do not agree with the game is an attempt to sway the opinions of others.

A lot of poeple are in fact giving very bad reviews on Amazon based on the fact ArenaNet has changed their phylosophy and they feel betrayed. But they aren’t doing so because they are Columba’s mindless zombies army.

They do so because they simply agree that what happened wasn’t ethical on ArenaNet’s part, and that was a move they didn’t expect.

I understand, my only issue is really telling people to go out and do it. Let them decide for themselves. It’s annoying, and just makes everyone look bad.

edited for my horrible spelling

ehm no. YOU look to players as uniformed people. Buy and try.
A wise player take a game based on:advertise and reviews, now if the have o substantial modification of its core stats, all the old advertise, and all the old rewievs are wrong!
Yeah thetere are people that make bad rewiev now, based on their anger state, but a wise buyer that read a massive negative critics, search more information before decide what to do.

Dont buy a product only because you see a lot of ppl that say :this game suck, anet lie etc etc etc, is for lazy people, the same kind of people that buy a game and they stop to play it after 1 week or after hitting the lvl 80 because there is nothing to do after beating the max level.

You are missing my point, I don’t buy products without understanding them (I was in Beta, I was comfortable with the game, I made my purchase) I work in marketing, I know what goes on behind the scene in advertising, I actively try and know the products I purchase well before I make a decision.

What I am saying is dont actively tell the community to go and write a bad review. If someone feels that a change is negative, leave it to them to write a review. Campaigning to bomb review sites with negative reviews is childish. By trying to start a coordinated effort to write negative reviews, they not only make it hard for anyone to even take a negative review seriously, but tends to lead to a flood of horribly written stuff with no insights for a prospective consumer. You kill any effectiveness a negative review would have had.

Also, reading alot of the negative reviews on Amazon, they are poorly thought out, and full of so much bias. There are some excellently written reviews, that clearly state why they feel the way they do, but alot of them have no point. There were some who clearly stated their issues with the game, they also stated the benefits. These reviews properly inform consumers what they should look for.

For a review to truly be effective, it needs to be as unbiased as possible, well thought out, and more than just “Anet pulled a 180 on their philosophy”

“What I am saying is dont actively tell the community to go and write a bad review. If someone feels that a change is negative, leave it to them to write a review. Campaigning to bomb review sites with negative reviews is childish”

Again, who are you to tell others not to post the truth about events which have transpired? The only “childish” behavior here is ignoring reality.

There is no moral or ethical conundrum in asking others to take part in telling the truth.

Godorn.2931:

“What I am saying is dont actively tell the community to go and write a bad review. If someone feels that a change is negative, leave it to them to write a review. Campaigning to bomb review sites with negative reviews is childish”

Again, who are you to tell others not to post the truth about events which have transpired? The only “childish” behavior here is ignoring reality.

There is no moral or ethical conundrum in asking others to take part in telling the truth.

Truth is relative, people too often pick one that works for them, you can tell them facts, let them make a decision for themselves. Using biased words and phrases is counter productive and leaves an argument fallacious and without significant contribution.

It’s not the what it’s the how, Godorn . . . that’s his point. My big problem with metascore manipulation is it can potentially bring about a stronger reaction than what was intended.

“It’s not the what it’s the how, Godorn . . . that’s his point.”

That is your point, and its is irrelevant. There are no shades of grey here. Either you tell the truth or you don’t. You can be an apologist all you want, that is your decision, but you have no right to tell others not to disclose the truth about the practices of a company and their unethical behavior.

I applaud them to go out and tell the truth, because if that is what they do then there is no moral dilemma except on the part of ANet.

Columba.9730:

Maz.8604:

Loosifah.4739:

Also they have said multiple times that ascended will be available via other means(such as WvW and crafting). They just haven’t released it yet.

So do you think we’ll be able to get them with Badges of Honor or Valor in 3-6 months?

Why didn’t they make it available via wvwvw at release. Some of us HATE dungeons and don’t appreciate being discriminated against.

Are you for real? Discriminated against because you hate dungeons? You aren’t special and you aren’t owed anything. I see you in every thread bashing the game, great life you must have.

Godorn.2931:

“It’s not the what it’s the how, Godorn . . . that’s his point.”

That is your point, and its is irrelevant. There are no shades of grey here. Either you tell the truth or you don’t. You can be an apologist all you want, that is your decision, but you have no right to tell others not to disclose the truth about the practices of a company and their unethical behavior.

I applaud them to go out and tell the truth, because if that is what they do then there is no moral dilemma except on the part of ANet.

People keep sticking labels on me. Troll. Apologist. Fanboy. That kitten ranger. I really wish they’d stop or just go to “Hey dullwit” to save time. You can even go for the uncensored version if you’re not shy of letting rip with F-bombs.

If you want the truth? Guild Wars 2 is a flawed game, but it does not deserve 1/5 ratings. There are plenty of things which can be perceived as “wrong” with it, I could start a list from gripes with design choices to nitpicks about lore. But it is not utter trash. At worst this is a mediocre game which is worth the $60 and about 70 hours of play.

If you want to say what is going on right now is unethical behavior . . . I don’t know, it must be unethical to change your mind about something. That’s an interesting idea, if I suddenly ran around saying this game was complete garbage after giving it vague lukewarm praise to this point, does that make me ethical?

Loosifah.4739:

Considering 90% of the forum complaining came from about 10% of the actual game population. I’d say they’re doing alright.

Gotta love when people just make up stats out of thin air…