Guild Wars 2

everything you can do in exotic, you can do in ascended better!

Azjenco.9425:

Since this thread is about dailies, I reckon you’re referring to them as grind. Really? Something that can be done in less than 30 minutes is accepted as grind these days…

Yes. Dull, repetitive, unimaginative, and unchallenging gameplay is a grind. Just because the grind is spread out over a number of days doesn’t mean it isn’t a grind. We already have 30 + 20 + 70 + 80 = 200 laurels to grind to gear up a character casually through dailies. So that about 100 hours of grind. And they aren’t even done adding the first glorious tier.

I hate dailies because they punish me for not logging in every. Single. Day. Camping for the weekend? Tack on 3 days to your next upgrade. Date night? Whoops, we don’t like that.

One of my favorite aspects of GW2 is its adult-friendly, play-at-your-own-pace mentality. This is slowly being eroded, turning a fun diversion into an obligation and grind. I can’t ever catch up; I can’t skip a day; I can’t play my own way. Please give me multiple avenues for progression.

Welcome to Daily Wars 2, a game where you can play however you want as long as you get along with the program and complete a set of arbitrary tasks that may or may not suit your playstyle.

darkdomino.9578:

There is no difference between having a quest NPC tell you to “kill 10 centaurs” and have a daily objective of “10 underwater kills” – THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.

Actually, there is a very real difference. The 10 centaurs in those other games are always in a fairly small area. The centaurs on the other side of the hill don’t count. GW2 underwater kills can be obtained in any zone that has water deep enough.

IndigoSundown.5419:

darkdomino.9578:

There is no difference between having a quest NPC tell you to “kill 10 centaurs” and have a daily objective of “10 underwater kills” – THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.

Actually, there is a very real difference. The 10 centaurs in those other games are always in a fairly small area. The centaurs on the other side of the hill don’t count. GW2 underwater kills can be obtained in any zone that has water deep enough.

. . . you forget also that if you killed 400 centaurs before being asked to kill those specific ten centaurs, they wouldn’t count at all.

Also, is now a good time to bring up Renown Hearts and how they work almost exactly as you suggested about “the centaurs on the other side of the hill don’t count”?

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

let me craft it as jeweler.

This!

What use will there be for crafting if best-in-slot gear and items can not be crafted?

RageQuit.5687:

Why is that a “must”? Who is forcing their hand? I never saw a post from anet stating this is mandatory. Where is this mentality coming from.

I don’t have to log in, or buy upcoming products either.

Refeuh.8493:

As long as you log in regularly and play the game for at least 30-60mn, you get a reward. For free. That’s all there is to it.

No, if I log in and do what I enjoy most (dungeons) then I am unlikely to complete 5 of these random tasks in 30-60 minutes.

What is more, a game that asks me to play EVERY SINGLE DAY is going to feel like a chore sooner or later. With the HIGH requirements, ANET is telling us to do our chores faithfully or we won’t be gearing even one character this year.

Yeah, no thanks.

Im assuming this is joke video? It really takes the kitten out of GW2 and kind of touches on so much of what Anet is failing to do.

I’m going to have to agree with you.

A couple of months ago I probably wouldn’t have, before I realized what truly was killing my MMO experiences. But my MMO enjoy ability has largely decreased over the span of most games because of dailies.

WoW added dailies (rep grind before that was kinda ok for me at the beginning point). Every couple of months I’d have to take a break or give up on dailies out of repetition boredom (this is coming from someone who used to love grindfest games like iRO, etc; eventually you just get tired).

SWTOR. Enjoyed game quite a bit honestly at first. Added dailies. Quit 2 months later. >.<

And that list could go on, but you get the point. In comparison:

GW2. Added laurel system. While it is a much more forgiving system now compared to doing 12 quests to kill x of y. It is still generally a get on every day and make sure you do this otherwise you miss out (honestly the costs make this more apparent then anything; apparently 24 hrs is only worth one laurel atm, which is kind of silly with the prices).

You could say you don’t ‘have’ to do it. And I’ll agree with that in the game’s current state. But it makes GW2 walk a questionable path compared to what they preached so much in the beginning.

Now if they add the whole Laurels for you achievements system that everyone says may happen. I think it would definitely let off on the whole ‘gotta do this every day’ feeling. At least to a degree.

Mackdose.6504:

Toxyn.9608:

Iason Evan.3806:

The best part about dailies is you don’t have to do them. Or you can. It’s up to you, just like anything else in this game. You don’t have a full set of ascended stuff? No problem. There is nothing that can’t be done without them.

Fractals requires Ascended gear for further progression. If it wasn’t for that, you would be right.

You don’t need ascended gear until level 20ish. And fractals are also optional, nothing in the game is mandatory unless having best in slot gear is mandatory to you.

Leaving the tutorial area is completely optional as well.

Fortuna.7259:

Mackdose.6504:

Toxyn.9608:

Iason Evan.3806:

The best part about dailies is you don’t have to do them. Or you can. It’s up to you, just like anything else in this game. You don’t have a full set of ascended stuff? No problem. There is nothing that can’t be done without them.

Fractals requires Ascended gear for further progression. If it wasn’t for that, you would be right.

You don’t need ascended gear until level 20ish. And fractals are also optional, nothing in the game is mandatory unless having best in slot gear is mandatory to you.

Leaving the tutorial area is completely optional as well.

And there are some people who never left it or Pre-Searing Ascalon (before there was a title). People are weird sometimes.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fortuna.7259:

Mackdose.6504:

Toxyn.9608:

Iason Evan.3806:

The best part about dailies is you don’t have to do them. Or you can. It’s up to you, just like anything else in this game. You don’t have a full set of ascended stuff? No problem. There is nothing that can’t be done without them.

Fractals requires Ascended gear for further progression. If it wasn’t for that, you would be right.

You don’t need ascended gear until level 20ish. And fractals are also optional, nothing in the game is mandatory unless having best in slot gear is mandatory to you.

Leaving the tutorial area is completely optional as well.

And there are some people who never left it or Pre-Searing Ascalon (before there was a title). People are weird sometimes.

Yep, on Desolation, there’s a guy called “Defender of Shaemoor” – a player who leveled to 80 in the tutorial area :’)

HappyHubris.1096:

I hate dailies because they punish me for not logging in every. Single. Day. Camping for the weekend? Tack on 3 days to your next upgrade. Date night? Whoops, we don’t like that.

One of my favorite aspects of GW2 is its adult-friendly, play-at-your-own-pace mentality. This is slowly being eroded, turning a fun diversion into an obligation and grind. I can’t ever catch up; I can’t skip a day; I can’t play my own way. Please give me multiple avenues for progression.

Would adult person care that much if he misses few days of play? Some would, some not. There are “adults” that live with their mothers, have no jobs and play for 16 hour a day. Then there are adults with jobs and familys that have bigger things to care about than purple pixel necklase and catching up.
So gw2 is not supposed to be adult-friendly but casual-friendly, which it is since gear that allows you to experience all aspects of game is reached fairly easy.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

And there are some people who never left it or Pre-Searing Ascalon (before there was a title). People are weird sometimes.

Doesn’t take anything away from the point.

BTW… A character never leaving is not the same as a player never leaving.

Fortuna.7259:

Doesn’t take anything away from the point.

BTW… A character never leaving is not the same as a player never leaving.

I’m sorry, which point does it not take anything away from? That you don’t have to, or that you have to?

kRiza krimos.1637:

Would adult person care that much if he misses few days of play? Some would, some not. There are “adults” that live with their mothers, have no jobs and play for 16 hour a day. Then there are adults with jobs and familys that have bigger things to care about than purple pixel necklase and catching up.
So gw2 is not supposed to be adult-friendly but casual-friendly, which it is since gear that allows you to experience all aspects of game is reached fairly easy.

Until the day comes when they will be required to have best in slot gear to do any of the content outside of shooting rabbits outside of Lions Arch. After being so far behind everyone else for missing a few days, they’ll never catch up to those 16 hour a day losers because once they get close…new currency for new gear set.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fortuna.7259:

Doesn’t take anything away from the point.

BTW… A character never leaving is not the same as a player never leaving.

I’m sorry, which point does it not take anything away from? That you don’t have to, or that you have to?

If you complain that anything in the game is poor, I can tell you that you don’t have to do it.

Lets correct this thread misconceptions. The new dailies don’t make you grind for junk. It makes you work for ascended gear/legendaries. So its helps toward end game.

I expect ppl like to have as much agony resist once they go for ascended armor/weapons in higher lvls. If you get all ascended items now without increasing them higher you at least have 30 agony resist. Once you make them higher you can easy add 5 to all of the ascended gear.

Dailies are not for nothing. Just glad no crappy combo finishers which is total waste.

Do hope monthy gives options too and no pushing for things ppl definely wouldn’t choose.

Fortuna.7259:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fortuna.7259:

Doesn’t take anything away from the point.

BTW… A character never leaving is not the same as a player never leaving.

I’m sorry, which point does it not take anything away from? That you don’t have to, or that you have to?

If you complain that anything in the game is poor, I can tell you that you don’t have to do it.

Well, let’s be fair here. There’s often parts missing from that bit and it rankles me also, in a place I tend to keep locked because unchecked pedantry is some kind of sin. I’m not sure which but I’m sure I’ll work it out sometime. Anyway, here goes

“You (are not required) to do ( something you don’t want to do).”

This leads into, of course, a host of questions. Why do you want to do it? If it’s for the reward, why do you want the reward? Is it a need, or something you just really want badly? Is there something else you can do to get that reward? Is that reward necessary to you doing anything in the game?

Most of these don’t matter. The last one is a thinly veiled “you’re doing it wrong” more often than not, but I tend to be drawn to this one:

“Is it a need or something you just really want badly?”

And its companion

“What can you do with it that would be impossible without it?”

Which I asked earlier. I can’t answer these questions for you. Nor can I even evaluate whether you answered the first one honestly. The second one is subject to huge piles of debate and I’d rather not get into it.

More to the point is a question not listed above which is much more important in my parlance:

“Will you be having fun if you don’t do this thing?”

And you still don’t need ascended gear for anything besides the content you get ascended gear in.

I don’t get the complaints. Just play for fun.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Would adult person care that much if he misses few days of play? Some would, some not. There are “adults” that live with their mothers, have no jobs and play for 16 hour a day. Then there are adults with jobs and familys that have bigger things to care about than purple pixel necklase and catching up.
So gw2 is not supposed to be adult-friendly but casual-friendly, which it is since gear that allows you to experience all aspects of game is reached fairly easy.

Ignore the word “adult”. GW2 punishes players that cannot set aside time EVERY day. not twice a week. Not four days out of seven. Every single day. That’s not what I would consider casual.

Worse, time-to-completion scales linearly with each additional character. Want your alt to be competitive in top fractals? Add 100% to your chronological wait. Share your account with a significant other or child? Add 100%. Decided to swap your specialization and require an alternate set of gear? Add 100%. It would be easy for one person to end up waiting a year or more to properly kit out a few slots on a few characters. Utterly insane.

I want to be able to play GW2 around my schedule and favorite areas without being punished. On days when I get some time to play, the daily system forces me to choose between ascended gear and doing that dungeon, DE chain, or questing that I was looking forward to. I appreciate new ways to obtain gear, but they should be in addition to current avenues. Players should log in for compelling content or as they feel like, not because of an artificial obligation. I’d want my players to remember most of their sessions as dominated by fun, not chores. GW2 is perfectly designed to “play your way”; let’s keep that feeling alive.

Mackdose.6504:

I finished my dailies yesterday twice in a 1 hour span of time. They didn’t butcher anything. “Level up once” doesn’t require dedication, and neither do any of the other tasks.

Ah, good, I was waiting for you to show up and misinterpret me again.

It’s not a matter of difficulty. It’s a matter of good design vs bad design.

This game was pitched as one that you could “play as you want to”, yet it has made increasingly large strides towards forcing people to play the game the way the devs want to. The old dailies allowed players to play in any zone they wanted, the new dailies obligate people to play in certain locations to complete them. That’s not “playing the way you want to”. The dailies from yesterday are perhaps the best ones to date but they’re still inferior to the original model, which was completable in any zone at any time with minimal effort.

And the dailies are just one example. The constant nerfing of “good farming spots”, limiting world chests to once per day, buffing things that didn’t need buffing, etc….these are all things which they have done not because the players actually demanded them, but because the players were farming them. Well, I hate to inform the devs of this, but there’s a difference between saying “we don’t want you to farm” and actually removing any and all forms of farming as they crop up. The former is a misunderstanding of how human beings function, and the latter is a complete violation of the “play the way you want to” mantra.

farming the same “spot” “event” over and over again isnt good for the game and its something future mmos will try to make as uneasy as possible.
its been stated by reknowned developers.

d3 is made for that.
an mmo should promote actually playing many different type of content more rewarding than only facerolling and quick run the same stuff over and over.

considering gw2 is a themepark, they had to look at how to make people try different rides instead of putting everybody in the same lineup for CoF or Pen/Shelt.

as the game will grow, i expect playing routines to be more varied and fun and equally rewarding.
dailies should not be the same for all players.
some days, some people should have to clear a temple, other complete x event in a particular region, other do x jumping puzzles etc, to keep the whole thing alive and less boring and less of a total faceroll zerg farming for 90% of the population that probably despise it.

Avatar.1923:

considering gw2 is a themepark, they had to look at how to make people try different rides instead of putting everybody in the same lineup for CoF or Pen/Shelt.

Here’s my question, then:

Suppose you own a theme park, and your visitors love to get on one ride in particular. Do you make a concerted effort to make that ride less appealing in the hopes that they will start trying your other rides? Or do you just sit back and count your cash, perfectly fine with people spending $60 for admission and choosing only to ride a single ride over and over again?

I know which one I’d pick, especially if I’m looking to retain those customers long term and not lose them to other theme parks.

Some people want to farm. Let them. They have every right to play the way they want to, even if it’s a boring and stupid way to play. There’s no point in telling them they’re not allowed to play unless they play your way.

people dont like to farm; they like the most rewarding thing.

if multiple things are equally rewarding, its good.

and as a company; you never sit on you product, you have to change, for better or wors t! hopefully better

and to answer your signature; theyre trying to improve the core game and make people enjoy different activities.

Avatar.1923:

people dont like to farm; they like the most rewarding thing.

No, you don’t like farming.

Some people do like to farm and shouldn’t be told that their method of playing the game is “wrong”.

And if the goal is to make multiple things equally rewarding, why not bring other areas up to the level of the farmed areas rather than nerfing the farming places down to the much poorer levels of everything else? People will never feel rewarded playing your game if you keep reducing the rewards.

reduce everything to an equal level, then up everything equally.
its better than pumping everything up to the level of broken stuff like CoF and breaking the games economy.

i dont know how you cant feel rewarded as there are so many different rewards and token to get.
imo, participating in an event should be like the new boss chest; more rewarding but only once per day per event.

Avatar.1923:

reduce everything to an equal level, then up everything equally. its better than pumping everything up to the level of broken stuff like CoF and breaking the games economy.

You’re correct in that it’s better than pumping everything up. That said, I think “equal level” is something that bears closer examination and some qualifying terms. And I also think some inequalities can be suffered if certain conditions are met. That’s a tricky thing though.

i dont know how you cant feel rewarded as there are so many different rewards and token to get.

It’s easy. You’re not getting a reward directly at that point . . . it’s real easy not to feel rewarded when you don’t get anything out of it directly. It’s very easy to not feel rewarded if you work and get blisters to see no actual result immediately. It’s understandable, even if a part of me goes “sometimes the rewards don’t come right away and you need to wait”.

People hate waiting for their goodies. It’s almost a fact.

imo, participating in an event should be like the new boss chest; more rewarding but only once per day per event.

. . . no no no no no no no no no no no no no . . .

(deep breath)

Please for the love of the players do not do this.

you ll just have to do more different events, and the player base would be more mobile, and strait of devastation will be more lively etc..

camping is bad for an mmo.

Avatar.1923:

reduce everything to an equal level, then up everything equally.
its better than pumping everything up to the level of broken stuff like CoF and breaking the games economy.

No, it’s twice as much work for no gain.

Just buff everything up to a set level and save yourself the work of nerfing it at all.

i dont know how you cant feel rewarded as there are so many different rewards and token to get.

That’s part of the problem.

There’s nothing wrong with providing long-term goals, but not every single reward should be a long-term goal. This is basic psychology, here. You aren’t going to get people motivated to perform the tasks you want if everything takes a long time to get. Human beings do not work that way. You have to mix short-term and long-term rewards together to achieve a motivational effect that lasts for the long-term. This is how successful teachers train their students to become self-motivated: providing small, short-term rewards and then slowly building up some long-term rewards and goals for those students. Eventually the student becomes motivated to the point where rewards are hardly required to stimulate the proper activity at all.

ANet is constantly cutting down on its short-term rewards and increasing the number of long-term ones. That’s not a balanced approach, and it’s going to lead to fatigue.

imo, participating in an event should be like the new boss chest; more rewarding but only once per day per event.

I mean no offense, but I must be honest….this is quite possibly the worst idea ever expressed in this forum.

HappyHubris.1096:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Would adult person care that much if he misses few days of play? Some would, some not. There are “adults” that live with their mothers, have no jobs and play for 16 hour a day. Then there are adults with jobs and familys that have bigger things to care about than purple pixel necklase and catching up.
So gw2 is not supposed to be adult-friendly but casual-friendly, which it is since gear that allows you to experience all aspects of game is reached fairly easy.

Ignore the word “adult”. GW2 punishes players that cannot set aside time EVERY day. not twice a week. Not four days out of seven. Every single day. That’s not what I would consider casual.

Worse, time-to-completion scales linearly with each additional character. Want your alt to be competitive in top fractals? Add 100% to your chronological wait. Share your account with a significant other or child? Add 100%. Decided to swap your specialization and require an alternate set of gear? Add 100%. It would be easy for one person to end up waiting a year or more to properly kit out a few slots on a few characters. Utterly insane.

I want to be able to play GW2 around my schedule and favorite areas without being punished. On days when I get some time to play, the daily system forces me to choose between ascended gear and doing that dungeon, DE chain, or questing that I was looking forward to. I appreciate new ways to obtain gear, but they should be in addition to current avenues. Players should log in for compelling content or as they feel like, not because of an artificial obligation. I’d want my players to remember most of their sessions as dominated by fun, not chores. GW2 is perfectly designed to “play your way”; let’s keep that feeling alive.

You can do dungeons and DEs without any problems in exotics. So what is stoping you to do them never thinking about purple pixels at all?
You are not required to have acsended gear for any content at all, not even lower lvl fractals. And its same dungeons as lvl 20 fractals. Are you people complaining in advance because someday when full acsended sets are out there will be content you wont be able to do without it?

Avatar.1923:

you ll just have to do more different events, and the player base would be more mobile, and strait of devastation will be more lively etc..

camping is bad for an mmo.

I’m not even talking about camping events. I’m talking about the way these events are designed to interact, I don’t really want to have a situation where players won’t participate in an event because they won’t get a reward (or are otherwise encouraged to move to a different area) . . . and that event happens to be the ones that shut down waypoints, or chase off vendors, or otherwise negatively impact the world.

To be perfectly clear here – I don’t want what is an anti-farming/camping measure to negatively impact people who aren’t behaving that way. I think that is not a good move.

Dailies serve a couple of goals:
1. Give people a time sink while they wait for group activity.
2. Give the grinders a positive feedback event.
3. Introduces a time centric rewardable system, rather than a skill or event centric one.

Reward tokens are designed to support 2 and 3. There are plenty of ginders out there unhappy so we can see they need a “ding” each day to let them know they’re on the right track, which leaves 3…

I personally would prefer to jump in with other people and attempt a hard encounter and (possibly) be rewarded for the effort, some folks don’t want that form of play or can’t handle the requirements (skill, time, guilds, etc) of that – these currencies offer them a pathway to reward too.

If you are worried about token rewards resulting in devalued event/encounter gear that is a fair point, takes a bit to find the balance sometimes, but is pretty easily overcome by adding “welfare” before any refernce to the welfare token rewards. ;-)

The 1 thing i was hoping for to be implemented and Anet mentioned this in their release notes, for the patch of Feb 26 2013, was CHOOSING your reward. The problem with it, ITS not there. I cant choose my reward from the dailies OR monthly.

I dont give a rats behind what dailies i have to do, as long as i get a chance to choose what i want to be rewarded with, but i guess thats too much to ask.

Also on a side note with having the Ascended gear available for everyone through laurels JEWELCRAFTING became USELESS.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Well, let’s be fair here. There’s often parts missing from that bit and it rankles me also, in a place I tend to keep locked because unchecked pedantry is some kind of sin. I’m not sure which but I’m sure I’ll work it out sometime. Anyway, here goes

“You (are not required) to do ( something you don’t want to do).”

This leads into, of course, a host of questions. Why do you want to do it? If it’s for the reward, why do you want the reward? Is it a need, or something you just really want badly? Is there something else you can do to get that reward? Is that reward necessary to you doing anything in the game?

Most of these don’t matter. The last one is a thinly veiled “you’re doing it wrong” more often than not, but I tend to be drawn to this one:

“Is it a need or something you just really want badly?”

There are no needs. This is a game. It is completely 100% luxury.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

And its companion

“What can you do with it that would be impossible without it?”

What can I do with it? Enjoy the game.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

“Will you be having fun if you don’t do this thing?”

No, I don’t enjoy experiencing inequity based on others’ whims. I have to deal with that in life. I don’t want to pay to experience it in my leisure time. I don’t enjoy it. Period. Many people agree.

Fortuna.7259:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Well, let’s be fair here. There’s often parts missing from that bit and it rankles me also, in a place I tend to keep locked because unchecked pedantry is some kind of sin. I’m not sure which but I’m sure I’ll work it out sometime. Anyway, here goes

“You (are not required) to do ( something you don’t want to do).”

This leads into, of course, a host of questions. Why do you want to do it? If it’s for the reward, why do you want the reward? Is it a need, or something you just really want badly? Is there something else you can do to get that reward? Is that reward necessary to you doing anything in the game?

Most of these don’t matter. The last one is a thinly veiled “you’re doing it wrong” more often than not, but I tend to be drawn to this one:

“Is it a need or something you just really want badly?”

There are no needs. This is a game. It is completely 100% luxury.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

And its companion

“What can you do with it that would be impossible without it?”

What can I do with it? Enjoy the game.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

“Will you be having fun if you don’t do this thing?”

No, I don’t enjoy experiencing inequity based on others’ whims. I have to deal with that in life. I don’t want to pay to experience it in my leisure time. I don’t enjoy it. Period. Many people agree.

Fair enough, we’re not going to completely agree on this, since it’s your right not to enjoy something and it is definitely not my right to tell you you should or that you’re wrong.

darkdomino.9578:

I’ll say it one more time: “Dailies” are not gameplay. There is no difference between having a quest NPC tell you to “kill 10 centaurs” and have a daily objective of “10 underwater kills” -

Quest NPCs? Dont you mean a few lines of text when clicked upon in GW2

Khal Drogo.9631:

darkdomino.9578:

I’ll say it one more time: “Dailies” are not gameplay. There is no difference between having a quest NPC tell you to “kill 10 centaurs” and have a daily objective of “10 underwater kills” -

Quest NPCs? Dont you mean a few lines of text when clicked upon in GW2

He’s talking about other MMOs where you’d click on an NPC and they’d give you a page of text culminating in the goals for the quest such as “kill 10 centaurs” “bring me twenty bear pelts” and such. GW2 has done the charming step of hiding most of that behind bars which fill up instead of numbers which need to be tracked, then separating it into two types:

Renown: Not only will bear pelts make the bar move, so will killing the bear or helping the woodcutter find lost axes or carry wood back to the pile.

Dynamic Event: Every player contributes to the bar, so you don’t necessarily have to get all twenty bear pelts yourself.

No, I don’t enjoy experiencing inequity based on others’ whims. I have to deal with that in life. I don’t want to pay to experience it in my leisure time. I don’t enjoy it. Period. Many people agree.

See here’s the rub – you are playing with other people, in a group and social based virtual world. Your freedom once again ends where mine begins. This is a SHARED world we are playing in, others not willing/able to get their heads around that really ought not be used to try to validate the above point.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

IndigoSundown.5419:

darkdomino.9578:

There is no difference between having a quest NPC tell you to “kill 10 centaurs” and have a daily objective of “10 underwater kills” – THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.

Actually, there is a very real difference. The 10 centaurs in those other games are always in a fairly small area. The centaurs on the other side of the hill don’t count. GW2 underwater kills can be obtained in any zone that has water deep enough.

. . . you forget also that if you killed 400 centaurs before being asked to kill those specific ten centaurs, they wouldn’t count at all.

Also, is now a good time to bring up Renown Hearts and how they work almost exactly as you suggested about “the centaurs on the other side of the hill don’t count”?

Shush, you. Hearts are off-topic in this thread. the thread about hearts is over … well, somewhere…

And yes, I remember the 400 centaurs thing. I also remember needing to collect 3 antlers from antelope. I could see they all had them, but for some reason after killing them, they must have disappeared.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

IndigoSundown.5419:

darkdomino.9578:

There is no difference between having a quest NPC tell you to “kill 10 centaurs” and have a daily objective of “10 underwater kills” – THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.

Actually, there is a very real difference. The 10 centaurs in those other games are always in a fairly small area. The centaurs on the other side of the hill don’t count. GW2 underwater kills can be obtained in any zone that has water deep enough.

. . . you forget also that if you killed 400 centaurs before being asked to kill those specific ten centaurs, they wouldn’t count at all.

Also, is now a good time to bring up Renown Hearts and how they work almost exactly as you suggested about “the centaurs on the other side of the hill don’t count”?

Shush, you. Hearts are off-topic in this thread. the thread about hearts is over … well, somewhere…

And yes, I remember the 400 centaurs thing. I also remember needing to collect 3 antlers from antelope. I could see they all had them, but for some reason after killing them, they must have disappeared.

It’s a point I like to say. GW2 kind of altered how those things work to be a bit more friendly. They’re not gone, they’re just smoothed out a bit. This, along with instanced resource nodes, I hope show up in games in later generations of MMOs

As for those antlers? Someone justified it to me once by saying I was damaging the antlers or pelts or such in the battle since “Hit points” is such an abstract concept. I didn’t like it any better

Your belief that you will be “experiencing inequity based on others” is what I called out there, not your opinon that you don’t want to run dailies. Despite digging I cannot see where you clearly outline the inequity itself really – can you refresh me on it?

Referring back to the manifesto may not be the best tact either, especially when in the same sentance you concede that there is much in it that never came up as expected. It was a document of the day and has been clearly left for dead – superceded by pragmatism and capitalism.

That element has every right to voice its displeasure at gross violations to this manifesto, and opinions backed by the manifesto have additional validity beyond just “well, that is how I like it.”

I would love for the link between this manifesto abuse and optional dailies to be explored, I am clearly not seeing something you are concerned by.

Whats with this whole ‘optional’ argument. The whole game is optional, you don’t have to log on. But the fact that you do, the fact that dailies give laurels, and laurels get you things you want, does not make it optional at all. You don’t do it, you miss out.

Derk.3189:

Whats with this whole ‘optional’ argument. The whole game is optional, you don’t have to log on. But the fact that you do, the fact that dailies give laurels, and laurels get you things you want, does not make it optional at all. You don’t do it, you miss out.

That is based on choices to make the rewards from the activity your goal. There are other goals and activities. “Missing out” is a matter of perspective by the player.

Some goals require greater input of time, capability, whatever – some players can’t meet those requirements… sorry.

thisolderhead.5127:

Your belief that you will be “experiencing inequity based on others” is what I called out there, not your opinon that you don’t want to run dailies. Despite digging I cannot see where you clearly outline the inequity itself really – can you refresh me on it?

Interesting, the individual I addressed seemed to have no difficulty… more interesting that you “called out” something when you didn’t know what it was saying.

thisolderhead.5127:

Referring back to the manifesto may not be the best tact either, especially when in the same sentance you concede that there is much in it that never came up as expected. It was a document of the day and has been clearly left for dead – superceded by pragmatism and capitalism.

I have no idea what you are saying I conceded “in the same sentence.” Also, a customer can certainly object when the product described and sold to them is not delivered on the basis that another made more money. When people choose to enter into a SOCIAL game, as you so clearly pointed out, they are obligated to respect the founding vision of the game. This does not mean that the vision can not be changed — just that it should be respected.

thisolderhead.5127:

That element has every right to voice its displeasure at gross violations to this manifesto, and opinions backed by the manifesto have additional validity beyond just “well, that is how I like it.”

I would love for the link between this manifesto abuse and optional dailies to be explored, I am clearly not seeing something you are concerned by.

That is unfortunate. I refer you to this thread in its entirety so that you may enlighten yourself.