Guild Wars 2

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

IndigoSundown.5419:

darkdomino.9578:

There is no difference between having a quest NPC tell you to “kill 10 centaurs” and have a daily objective of “10 underwater kills” – THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.

Actually, there is a very real difference. The 10 centaurs in those other games are always in a fairly small area. The centaurs on the other side of the hill don’t count. GW2 underwater kills can be obtained in any zone that has water deep enough.

. . . you forget also that if you killed 400 centaurs before being asked to kill those specific ten centaurs, they wouldn’t count at all.

Also, is now a good time to bring up Renown Hearts and how they work almost exactly as you suggested about “the centaurs on the other side of the hill don’t count”?

Shush, you. Hearts are off-topic in this thread. the thread about hearts is over … well, somewhere…

And yes, I remember the 400 centaurs thing. I also remember needing to collect 3 antlers from antelope. I could see they all had them, but for some reason after killing them, they must have disappeared.

It’s a point I like to say. GW2 kind of altered how those things work to be a bit more friendly. They’re not gone, they’re just smoothed out a bit. This, along with instanced resource nodes, I hope show up in games in later generations of MMOs

As for those antlers? Someone justified it to me once by saying I was damaging the antlers or pelts or such in the battle since “Hit points” is such an abstract concept. I didn’t like it any better

As long as games are based on current computer technology, players are going to have to interact with virtual stuff in one predetermined manner or another. Under the existing constraints, smoothed out is good.

AoC tried resource instances, complete with random encounters. Of course, the instances were shared, so they were little different from other instances except for no quests and no hostiles every 50 feet. GW2 got nodes just right, for my tastes.

Breaking the antlers, however unpalatable an excuse, is at least feasible. However, it could be argued that applying real criteria to games is futile. Just consider the ecology of a world with hostile predators at around 4 per 100 sq. ft.

thisolderhead.5127:

Some goals require greater input of time, capability, whatever – some players can’t meet those requirements… sorry.

Greater ability to be easily entertained, tolerate boredom… inability to consider alternatives and demand quality…

Derk.3189:

Whats with this whole ‘optional’ argument. The whole game is optional, you don’t have to log on. But the fact that you do, the fact that dailies give laurels, and laurels get you things you want, does not make it optional at all. You don’t do it, you miss out.

Yes, exactly what I’m saying. The whole game is optional. This does not excuse elements of the game when they are terrible.

That is unfortunate. I refer you to this thread in its entirety so that you may enlighten yourself.

Love the tone, you need to get the really condescending tightened up a bit but you are definately on the way to being one of my favorite forum posters.

I’ve stepped through it a few times, I am not saying Dailies are acceptable end-game replacements for decently designed party encounters – and would get behind anyone calling for more resources to be put into that…

This isn’t really about one bit of thin gameplay, its about a whole “betrayal” and a breakdown of “trust” by the developer updating its model/plans and many players not feeling that the update met their standards – and that is just fine too.

If you don’t complete your daily before you decide you want to stop playing, and you check to see how close you are, and there is nothing left you want to do… who says you absolutely must do so?

90% of the time i complete my daily just by playing casually… and moreso now than ever that is possible.

Also, if you don’t feel like doing any of the daily things, just ignore it.
You are rewarded for the amount of work you put into the system.

…you don’t get punished for not doing them.

If you don’t do the work, you don’t reap the rewards.

Simple as that.

inability to consider alternatives

There are games that are more like the manifesto vision for GW2 (and clones of GW1)… just saying. :-)

critickitten.1498:

Mackdose.6504:

I finished my dailies yesterday twice in a 1 hour span of time. They didn’t butcher anything. “Level up once” doesn’t require dedication, and neither do any of the other tasks.

Ah, good, I was waiting for you to show up and misinterpret me again.

It’s not a matter of difficulty. It’s a matter of good design vs bad design.

Who said anything about difficulty? I said dedication, which I picked up directly from your post.

This game was pitched as one that you could “play as you want to”, yet it has made increasingly large strides towards forcing people to play the game the way the devs want to. The old dailies allowed players to play in any zone they wanted, the new dailies obligate people to play in certain locations to complete them.

I’d like to see you back this up with more than speculation. How do you know the dev’s intentions with this particular round of dailies? We know from a high level standpoint they want to direct players to more parts of the world, which was a major player criticism to the game during the holidays.

That’s not “playing the way you want to”. The dailies from yesterday are perhaps the best ones to date but they’re still inferior to the original model, which was completable in any zone at any time with minimal effort.

So your only point of contention with the new dailies with that it gives you a range of zones to complete them in, as opposed to any zone. Nit picking at its finest.

And the dailies are just one example. The constant nerfing of “good farming spots”, limiting world chests to once per day, buffing things that didn’t need buffing, etc….these are all things which they have done not because the players actually demanded them, but because the players were farming them.

The rest of the post is garbage because of this line.

1. There was a thread near release that had suggested that dynamic events needed scaling more interesting than “more mobs, more hitpoints” and that’s why this new scaling is in testing right now.
2. The chest loot is much, much better than before (This was a player request) and to compensate for the economic consequences, they limited the chest so it couldn’t be farmed. Good thing there’s more than one chest in the game, else you would have a valid argument.
3. You are assuming the only point to the pent/shelt events being changed was to nerf them. Player threads talking about how their favorite event farm was nerfed doesn’t make the nerf intentional. Show me evidence, and I’ll let this point go.

Stop trying to make me look like I don’t know what I’m talking about when responding to you, I’m not misinterpreting anything.

thisolderhead.5127:

inability to consider alternatives

There are games that are more like the manifesto vision for GW2 (and clones of GW1)… just saying. :-)

Which makes it a really odd argument that GW2 couldn’t live more up to it (not saying that is your argument, but it is another one floating around here that I grow weary of).

It makes it an odd argument indeed – but due to the fact that it illustrates Anet could narrow the gap, however has chosen not to at every step of the way.

Not only does it appear they aren’t listening to the manifesto-clutching group but it seems they are actively moving away from that vision entirely… its like they’ve abandoned all of those players – like they just don’t care.

Perhaps that should be the measuring-stick for which camp looks to be on the right page.

Cherry picking responses is poor form IMO.

OscarKitteh.7198:

Really.. this has to be the 6th or 7th or 10 millionth thread on “omg dailies are ruining the game, so hard, can’t do them Q.Q, can’t play the way I want, etc. etc.” Don’t like the dailies, don’t do them.
No game lets you “play the way you want” but GW2 is ridiculously flexible in terms of letting us do a variety of stuff. In GW1 you had to do storyline, grind points just to access parts of the game – here? You can go to any zone as long as you have the gear and levels to handle it, you can do any event, any dungeon. But o noes, can’t get a shiny because it requires you to go out of your way for 10 minutes a day, can’t “play the way I want.”

Your missing the point. Anet is introducing these dailys as a simplistic way to keep people doing the same kitten over and over rather than adding new and engaging content. Does that make sense to you? Whether you do the dailys or not, they are there and they are ruining the game for everyone.

Anet is introducing these as there are players who are so over coddled that they couldn’t work out what to do in the game unless they had a scoreboard and a carrot to follow. If anyone is to blame it is all of us who didn’t teach the kiddies to make their own fun and left them screaming out to Anet for a simplistic tool to tell them what to do in the absence of leadership.

thisolderhead.5127:

That is unfortunate. I refer you to this thread in its entirety so that you may enlighten yourself.

Love the tone, you need to get the really condescending tightened up a bit but you are definately on the way to being one of my favorite forum posters.

Touché. I apologize for the tone (and I’ll work on tightening it up a bit for the future).

thisolderhead.5127:

I’ve stepped through it a few times, I am not saying Dailies are acceptable end-game replacements for decently designed party encounters – and would get behind anyone calling for more resources to be put into that…

This isn’t really about one bit of thin gameplay, its about a whole “betrayal” and a breakdown of “trust” by the developer updating its model/plans and many players not feeling that the update met their standards – and that is just fine too.

Well, for me this thread was just about thin gameplay until I see tired old arguments like “you don’t have to do it” that are just irrelevant to a complaint about the game.

The existence of the current implementation ruins my enjoyment of the game whether I do it or not. As for me personally, a sense of “trust” and “betrayal” long since sailed. There is just the “state of the game” and the question “do I enjoy this any longer?”

There players who are throwing around “Trust” and similar personal terms around quite a lot, one or two seriously sound like they want to get even over some form of slight like Anet is forsaking their love – it is a worry.

Fatalistic and hyperbolic terms being thrown in are even more worrying – hopefully no one out there has been so tied up with the manifesto that they need to “an hero” a response to Anet… :-\

The existence of the current implementation ruins my enjoyment of the game whether I do it or not. As for me personally, a sense of “trust” and “betrayal” long since sailed. There is just the “state of the game” and the question “do I enjoy this any longer?”

The answer is no -
“the current implementation ruins my enjoyment of the game”

Probably best just to log off and let it go then, check out the release notes once a month instead mate – free up some time and feel less heartache.

thisolderhead.5127:

Anet is introducing these as there are players who are so over coddled that they couldn’t work out what to do in the game unless they had a scoreboard and a carrot to follow. If anyone is to blame it is all of us who didn’t teach the kiddies to make their own fun and left them screaming out to Anet for a simplistic tool to tell them what to do in the absence of leadership.

Now, I disagree. I figure the Dailies are there to encourage people to log in regularly so there are more people around since . . . well, some dynamic events can actually be done and there’s people around. I’m pretty sure that’s one of the reasons they exist: to get people to play if not daily, then often enough to be active.

How they evolved into what they are now is a long list of them listening to people (often different groups) making complaints about them. And I sincerely hope we’re done tweaking what they are.

thisolderhead.5127:

The answer is no -
“the current implementation ruins my enjoyment of the game”

Probably best just to log off and let it go then, check out the release notes once a month instead mate – free up some time and feel less heartache.

Yes, the answer is “no” as of yesterday. Today, I don’t have to log off.

I do however enjoy discussing about games and game design. I’ve been avid about this almost as long as I’ve played games. Some posts here are actually enlightening. So if it’s all the same to you, I’ll stick around for just a bit and absorb the remainder of this experience.

P.S. If I didn’t know any better, I would say you are projecting bitterness on me with indirect comments and insinuations. But of course, you wouldn’t presume to know my feelings or motivations so deeply.

thisolderhead.5127:

There players who are throwing around “Trust” and similar personal terms around quite a lot, one or two seriously sound like they want to get even over some form of slight like Anet is forsaking their love – it is a worry.

What exactly are you talking about? As far as it looks to me, you are the one to even bring up “Trust” in this thread.

Fortuna.7259:

thisolderhead.5127:

The answer is no -
“the current implementation ruins my enjoyment of the game”

Probably best just to log off and let it go then, check out the release notes once a month instead mate – free up some time and feel less heartache.

Yes, the answer is “no” as of yesterday. Today, I don’t have to log off.

I do however enjoy discussing about games and game design. I’ve been avid about this almost as long as I’ve played games. Some posts here are actually enlightening. So if it’s all the same to you, I’ll stick around for just a bit and absorb the remainder of this experience.

P.S. If I didn’t know any better, I would say you are projecting bitterness on me with indirect comments and insinuations. But of course, you wouldn’t presume to know my feelings or motivations so deeply.

Oh no – feel free to stay, I didn’t mean to insinuate you are best off leaving, you just seemed so frustrated and unhappy – once we’d unravelled the issue I thought it would be a weight off, its good to hear what the other sorts think about things!

You clearly do know better, it isn’t projecting bitterness – projecting bitterness is passive and what I am doing is direct & stands out like a dog’s proverbials.

Fortuna.7259:

thisolderhead.5127:

There players who are throwing around “Trust” and similar personal terms around quite a lot, one or two seriously sound like they want to get even over some form of slight like Anet is forsaking their love – it is a worry.

What exactly are you talking about? As far as it looks to me, you are the one to even bring up “Trust” in this thread.

You might be right, I could have crossed it over, there was a bit of “hurt” voiced above in the thread somewhere that would have prompted that mistake (if so).

thisolderhead.5127:

Fortuna.7259:

thisolderhead.5127:

There players who are throwing around “Trust” and similar personal terms around quite a lot, one or two seriously sound like they want to get even over some form of slight like Anet is forsaking their love – it is a worry.

What exactly are you talking about? As far as it looks to me, you are the one to even bring up “Trust” in this thread.

You might be right, I could have crossed it over, there was a bit of “hurt” voiced above that would have prompted that mistake (if so).

Yeah, it wasn’t this thread, it was another one which was about “do you still trust”. This one was about whether the Dailies were just a naked time sink/grind.

My bad, but given most of the same actors in both threads that are fundamentally the same it makes sense.

I can’t agree more with the OP, they do feel really shallow. I like the concept of dailies, but I dislike how with the laurels I feel like I’m being punished for missing a daily. I like the direction they moved to where you can pick what you do, but I still feel like the system can be improved.

They are shallow, but the fact you feel like you are missing out for failing to min-max to the bleeding limit is not an issue with mechanics, it is player (base) mindset.

Sure as hell not going to kill the game, but hey the sky may fall…

thisolderhead.5127:

They are shallow, but the fact you feel like you are missing out for failing to min-max to the bleeding limit is not an issue with mechanics, it is player (base) mindset.

Sure as hell not going to kill the game, but hey the sky may fall…

It is a player (base) mindset WELL understood by the developers. It is the REASON for ascended gear as it is. Pretending it is the players’ fault is a bit like throwing a kitten in a cage of rabid wolves and crying foul at what the wolves do. The design is manipulative, plain and simple.

And by the way, getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 25% DPS is hardly what I would call min-max “to the bleeding limit.” But of course there is a game going on to deny this as well. Maybe you will even grace us with that one…

Fortuna.7259:

And by the way, getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 25% DPS is hardly what I would call min-max “to the bleeding limit.” But of course there is a game going on to deny this as well. Maybe you will even grace us with that one…

Sorry, is that the extrapolated for a full set of Ascended armor/weapon or is that just based on the six potential items we have currently? Because if we already reached +25% DPS then something went horribly wrong somewhere.

Fortuna.7259:

thisolderhead.5127:

They are shallow, but the fact you feel like you are missing out for failing to min-max to the bleeding limit is not an issue with mechanics, it is player (base) mindset.

Sure as hell not going to kill the game, but hey the sky may fall…

It is a player (base) mindset WELL understood by the developers. It is the REASON for ascended gear as it is. Pretending it is the players’ fault is a bit like throwing a kitten in a cage of rabid wolves and crying foul at what the wolves do. The design is manipulative, plain and simple.

And by the way, getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 25% DPS is hardly what I would call min-max “to the bleeding limit.” But of course there is a game going on to deny this as well. Maybe you will even grace us with that one…

One of my other accounts is already over there (you like my other accounts lol). You are not giving enough context for that number to have meaning – may as well have made it up.

It is too easy to become fixated on dailies, even when the mix of dailies could come close to full completion if you just played the way you normally play. It does detract from immersion and eventually it will wear very, very thin, to the detriment of the game.

The solution may be to make dailies a little easier to complete, while also tuning the mix to make it easier to complete dailies just by playing, rather than worrying about a check list. The dailies bring people to the game near daily, but it might be better to get them off the daily and back to normal game play as quickly as possible.

If it was up to me, I’d expand the list to 5 of 12, instead of 5 of 10 and have a plain kill count and “level up” be part of every daily, while limiting the number of achievements in a daily that require doing things you wouldn’t be likely to accomplish through ordinary play to 3 of the 12 choices daily.

Adding two generic, reliable options daily to the current mix of ten would work well with the current mix of dailies, allowing more people of varying play-styles to accomplish the daily but just playing the game “the way they want to play”, rather than obsessing over a checklist.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fortuna.7259:

And by the way, getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 25% DPS is hardly what I would call min-max “to the bleeding limit.” But of course there is a game going on to deny this as well. Maybe you will even grace us with that one…

Sorry, is that the extrapolated for a full set of Ascended armor/weapon or is that just based on the six potential items we have currently? Because if we already reached +25% DPS then something went horribly wrong somewhere.

It is just an estimate of the difference between full ascended berserker (with armor/weapons) and full berserker exotic, without anything like 25 might stacks (which dampens % increases to Power a bit). Currently, you are probably going to see 8-10% with trinkets. But the weapon damage is very important and there will possibly be +10 power infusions (probably hideously expensive) that might add up to something (put one all 14 pieces of gear). Who knows? We do know that it is already pretty significant.

thisolderhead.5127:

Fortuna.7259:

thisolderhead.5127:

They are shallow, but the fact you feel like you are missing out for failing to min-max to the bleeding limit is not an issue with mechanics, it is player (base) mindset.

Sure as hell not going to kill the game, but hey the sky may fall…

It is a player (base) mindset WELL understood by the developers. It is the REASON for ascended gear as it is. Pretending it is the players’ fault is a bit like throwing a kitten in a cage of rabid wolves and crying foul at what the wolves do. The design is manipulative, plain and simple.

And by the way, getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 25% DPS is hardly what I would call min-max “to the bleeding limit.” But of course there is a game going on to deny this as well. Maybe you will even grace us with that one…

One of my other accounts is already over there (you like my other accounts lol). You are not giving enough context for that number to have meaning – may as well have made it up.

Whatever you are talking about is quite unclear – I will just ignore. At any rate, I’m not into proving numbers here as they are quite well discussed in other threads/sites.

Just looking at the thread’s title and the gist of the discussion, I’ll ask:

• What would a deep gameplay mechanic be?
• Aren’t all gameplay mechanics essentially the same?
• Aren’t we all just sitting at our computers, moving our game piece to one area or another and clicking the mouse or pushing keys to have our piece interact with virtual stuff in the game?
• Why is doing the above in one fashion shallow, and another not shallow?
• Aren’t these rewards just more virtual confetti?
• And above all, are these rewards really that important that you have to have them?

Fortuna.7259:

It is just an estimate of the difference between full ascended berserker (with armor/weapons) and full berserker exotic, without anything like 25 might stacks (which dampens % increases to Power a bit). Currently, you are probably going to see 8-10% with trinkets. But the weapon damage is very important and there will possibly be +10 power infusions (probably hideously expensive) that might add up to something (put one all 14 pieces of gear). Who knows? We do know that it is already pretty significant.

I see. I’m not going to try diving into the math – I’ve proven in the past I’m only passable at that when I don’t have a pressure to be exhaustive. So tentatively I’ll take you at your word.

I still think that there’s less of an impact in this outside of WvW applications, unless of course, everyone is using it in PvE except you. Most content I’ve encountered thus far (and consciously excluding extreme reaches of Fractals, where you need/should have Ascended anyway) still is do-able inside Exotics for small-scale things and in large-scale . . . like Temples, there’s often either enough people that it is rendered moot or there’s not enough so that you’ll get squashed no matter what your DPS is.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Just looking at the thread’s title and the gist of the discussion, I’ll ask:

• What would a deep gameplay mechanic be?
• Aren’t all gameplay mechanics essentially the same?
• Aren’t we all just sitting at our computers, moving our game piece to one area or another and clicking the mouse or pushing keys to have our piece interact with virtual stuff in the game?
• Why is doing the above in one fashion shallow, and another not shallow?
• Aren’t these rewards just more virtual confetti?
• And above all, are these rewards really that important that you have to have them?

Here, go check out “Extra Credits” at PATV (I’m too lazy to get the link) and look up in their most recent season, Ep 19: “Depth vs Complexity”. They’ll cover it better than I, and probably more entertaining as well.

This thread is just going around in circles. In the main picky argumentative pedantic know it alls with a few reasonable people trying to say ‘hey, it really doesn’t matter’.

These dailies are fulfilled by normal play anyway so what difference does their inclusion make? I’m sure there are more more pressing or interesting topics to discuss.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Just looking at the thread’s title and the gist of the discussion, I’ll ask:

• What would a deep gameplay mechanic be?
• Aren’t all gameplay mechanics essentially the same?
• Aren’t we all just sitting at our computers, moving our game piece to one area or another and clicking the mouse or pushing keys to have our piece interact with virtual stuff in the game?
• Why is doing the above in one fashion shallow, and another not shallow?
• Aren’t these rewards just more virtual confetti?
• And above all, are these rewards really that important that you have to have them?

Here, go check out “Extra Credits” at PATV (I’m too lazy to get the link) and look up in their most recent season, Ep 19: “Depth vs Complexity”. They’ll cover it better than I, and probably more entertaining as well.

Thank you, that was fairly entertaining. Thanks for the FYI!

OK, then to return to the OP’s issue…

Dailies metamorphosed as a cascade result of the decision to cater to players who wanted more reasons to play repeatable content. Yes, I’m referring to the introduction of Ascended gear. This led to the backlash to Ascended, and to it being exclusive to FotM, which resulted in the promise to make the new gear available through different means.

Since one of the player demographics (dungeon runners) had been catered to, a logical next step in the process of fulfilling that promise was to make the gear available to non-dungeon runners. So now, they needed a mechanic. Can’t just give the stuff away, since that does not fulfill the purpose of introducing it in the first place — giving people a reason to play. So, they chose the dailies and we know the rest.

However, they also tried to fix other problems that players have complained about:

• ANet, do something about empty zones. No one goes there except to do map completion.
• ANet, motivate people to do DE’s in various areas because so many DE’s are not getting completed.
• ANet, make killing Vets and Champions more worthwhile, it’s just a waste of time to kill them.
• ANet, make Group Events more rewarding; no one does them because the effort to reward ratio is skewed too much toward effort.

So, dailies were chosen as the medium for the new reward. However, leaving the dailies as they were at launch would do nothing to fix those other issues. The original dailies were too generic and could be completed anywhere except Orr. Leaving them the same would not do anything to move the players around to underutilized areas.

Changing the dailies to funnel players to different areas, to do events, to fight the tougher mobs and tying the dailies to the shiny stuff was an attempt to solve several issues raised by the community. The devs might even have seen it as an elegant solution to “kill several birds with one stone.”

So, I can’t answer to claims that the new dailies are shallow. I don’t see it, but people are different and I don’t have to see it for it to be real to someone else. However, I do know why ANet did it. They did it because “we” asked them to.

Genophix.3098:

This thread is just going around in circles. In the main picky argumentative pedantic know it alls with a few reasonable people trying to say ‘hey, it really doesn’t matter’.

These dailies are fulfilled by normal play anyway so what difference does their inclusion make? I’m sure there are more more pressing or interesting topics to discuss.

Pressing? Probably. Interesting? Not for me, because it’s interesting to hear people’s reactions that differ from my own and learning why.

Fun fact, while you get your Daily knocked out in regular play, there are others who play differently who feel they must alter course to fill out their Dailies. And then there’s some who are compelled to do the whole set even though there’s no full-on actual reward being offered.

I said it again, I will say it until they put me in the ground. “People are weird, wonderful, and exist in as many varieties as you can imagine. And then some.”

Daily quest systems are and have always been garbage. They are designed to cater to and retain QQ casual short attention span bads, most of whom end up quitting anyway.

Kintari.4172:

Daily quest systems are and have always been garbage. They are designed to cater to and retain QQ casual short attention span bads, most of whom end up quitting anyway.

Well that’s one perspective.

They also draw people to keep coming back to a game where there’s no subscription fee to guilt them into being active. Lest it be forgotten, daily quests showed up the last two . . . two? . . . years of GW1 as a means of “something to do to get people to go to older content and not just a few spots”.

Dailies in GW2 seem to be shifting from “here’s some stuff you can do, oh hey, have some experience karma and silver” to “get out in our game and try something different for a bit, there’s really a lot you probably haven’t tried yet”.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

They also draw people to keep coming back to a game where there’s no subscription fee to guilt them into being active. Lest it be forgotten, daily quests showed up the last two . . . two? . . . years of GW1 as a means of “something to do to get people to go to older content and not just a few spots”.

I do remember being incredibly happy when a daily Zaishen mission was on a Mission that I have not done before. Very very happy.

When people complain about being “forced” to do things…Well yes, Anet is encouraging you to do different things, but many of these things are ultimately good for the game as a whole (Daily Dodger, anyone?) and serves to funnel players into the lesser populated areas of the game. Which is good!

Yesterday I did something different. I turned off the daily tracker and just started playing, to see how far I would come with the daily by ignoring it. Within 30 minutes, I had 4/5. Before I logged off, I spent some karma to get 5/5, but that took me 2 minutes max.

Relax, let go of the compulsion brought on by having that tracker in your top right corner, and the dailies will feel much less of a chore.

I stopped playing WOW in MoP because so much stuff was gated through daylie quests. Ive returned to GW2 and now here everthing goes daylie too…not with me

I hate doing daylie stuff its repetive , boring and cheap “content”. While the daylie av in GW2 i archieved by playing its somehow acceptable but having daylie chests makes it suck hard. I just have one character maxed, I dont even want to level more.

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Yesterday I did something different. I turned off the daily tracker and just started playing, to see how far I would come with the daily by ignoring it. Within 30 minutes, I had 4/5. Before I logged off, I spent some karma to get 5/5, but that took me 2 minutes max.

Relax, let go of the compulsion brought on by having that tracker in your top right corner, and the dailies will feel much less of a chore.

. . . waaaait, people actually paid attention to them after starting up and checking what they were? I usually just let it ride until I found out I hadn’t gotten it yet.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Yesterday I did something different. I turned off the daily tracker and just started playing, to see how far I would come with the daily by ignoring it. Within 30 minutes, I had 4/5. Before I logged off, I spent some karma to get 5/5, but that took me 2 minutes max.

Relax, let go of the compulsion brought on by having that tracker in your top right corner, and the dailies will feel much less of a chore.

. . . waaaait, people actually paid attention to them after starting up and checking what they were? I usually just let it ride until I found out I hadn’t gotten it yet.

I think that is why people struggle with them. Because they are so “in your face” with that tracker, it quickly feels like something that has to be done. In fact, the reason why I chose to ignore them last night, was because I started to feel that pressure myself, and I did not want to play like that.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Kintari.4172:

Daily quest systems are and have always been garbage. They are designed to cater to and retain QQ casual short attention span bads, most of whom end up quitting anyway.

Well that’s one perspective.

They also draw people to keep coming back to a game where there’s no subscription fee to guilt them into being active. Lest it be forgotten, daily quests showed up the last two . . . two? . . . years of GW1 as a means of “something to do to get people to go to older content and not just a few spots”.

Dailies in GW2 seem to be shifting from “here’s some stuff you can do, oh hey, have some experience karma and silver” to “get out in our game and try something different for a bit, there’s really a lot you probably haven’t tried yet”.

Introducing new players to content is a good goal, but there are better ways to do this than dailies, and most daily Skinner Boxes are more about pressing the lever and getting a pellet than they are about doing new stuff.

Some people play games to be challenged and improve, others play so they can shut their brains off, perform some boring repetitive easy task, and be rewarded for it. Dailies are aimed squarely at people in the latter camp, because these kinds of people find repetitive, rote actions with some form of positive reinforcement ‘fun’.

Genophix.3098:

This thread is just going around in circles. In the main picky argumentative pedantic know it alls with a few reasonable people trying to say ‘hey, it really doesn’t matter’.

These dailies are fulfilled by normal play anyway so what difference does their inclusion make? I’m sure there are more more pressing or interesting topics to discuss.

I like discussing this topic. Why are you trying to discourage people from talking about it? There is a lot of opportunity for you to discuss other topics on other threads…

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Yesterday I did something different. I turned off the daily tracker and just started playing, to see how far I would come with the daily by ignoring it. Within 30 minutes, I had 4/5. Before I logged off, I spent some karma to get 5/5, but that took me 2 minutes max.

Relax, let go of the compulsion brought on by having that tracker in your top right corner, and the dailies will feel much less of a chore.

What about on days I don’t really want to play? It’s an annoying chore then. Besides which, what you describe isn’t going to be everyone’s experience every day…

Fortuna.7259:

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Yesterday I did something different. I turned off the daily tracker and just started playing, to see how far I would come with the daily by ignoring it. Within 30 minutes, I had 4/5. Before I logged off, I spent some karma to get 5/5, but that took me 2 minutes max.

Relax, let go of the compulsion brought on by having that tracker in your top right corner, and the dailies will feel much less of a chore.

What about on days I don’t really want to play? It’s an annoying chore then. Besides which, what you describe isn’t going to be everyone’s experience every day…

On days I don’t want to play, I don’t play. Why would you play something that isn’t fun? It’s a game, not a job.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Just looking at the thread’s title and the gist of the discussion, I’ll ask:

• What would a deep gameplay mechanic be?
• Aren’t all gameplay mechanics essentially the same?
  * Aren’t we all just sitting at our computers, moving our game piece to one area or another and clicking the mouse or pushing keys to have our piece interact with virtual stuff in the game?
• Why is doing the above in one fashion shallow, and another not shallow?
• Aren’t these rewards just more virtual confetti?
• And above all, are these rewards really that important that you have to have them?

Ah… a reductionist argument. No, you are incorrect. Wholes are more than the sum of their parts. Playing games are not disordered clicks of mice and random firing of neurons. I can simplify you as a configuration of hydrogen, carbon, oxygen (etc) atoms but that simplification does not represent you, even if it accurately accounts the material of which you are made.

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Fortuna.7259:

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Yesterday I did something different. I turned off the daily tracker and just started playing, to see how far I would come with the daily by ignoring it. Within 30 minutes, I had 4/5. Before I logged off, I spent some karma to get 5/5, but that took me 2 minutes max.

Relax, let go of the compulsion brought on by having that tracker in your top right corner, and the dailies will feel much less of a chore.

What about on days I don’t really want to play? It’s an annoying chore then. Besides which, what you describe isn’t going to be everyone’s experience every day…

On days I don’t want to play, I don’t play. Why would you play something that isn’t fun? It’s a game, not a job.

And then I am irritated at how long it takes to get a laurel reward the next time I play. That is the design.

But you are right about one thing… why would I play something that isn’t fun?

Fortuna.7259:

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Fortuna.7259:

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Yesterday I did something different. I turned off the daily tracker and just started playing, to see how far I would come with the daily by ignoring it. Within 30 minutes, I had 4/5. Before I logged off, I spent some karma to get 5/5, but that took me 2 minutes max.

Relax, let go of the compulsion brought on by having that tracker in your top right corner, and the dailies will feel much less of a chore.

What about on days I don’t really want to play? It’s an annoying chore then. Besides which, what you describe isn’t going to be everyone’s experience every day…

On days I don’t want to play, I don’t play. Why would you play something that isn’t fun? It’s a game, not a job.

And then I am irritated at how long it takes to get a laurel reward the next time I play. That is the design.

But you are right about one thing… why would I play something that isn’t fun?

Only if you are fixated on the rewards. I’m not (I buy dyes with my laurels), but I know a lot of forumdwellers are. Kind of saddens me to be honest, that a lot of people apparently need the imaginary reward to enjoy or do something.

Just my two penny’orth. I look on dailies as tutorials – something I thought was sorely lacking when I first started playing GW2. For example, before dailies I didn’t know how to dodge, mainly because in my experience I have never met the concept before in any game – though the FPS Max Payne did employ something similar. I’m getting on in years and not as adaptable as I used to be and new stuff takes a little longer to learn these days. I was really struggling with dodging and having an awful time completing missions and my personal story. When they introduced dodging into the dailies I had to learn how to dodge in order to complete them. After a little practice and many failed dodges I have now got the hang of it and finding the combat sytem much more enjoyable now. So…imo dailies are a welcome addition – especially as they are really improving my enjoyment of the game.