Guild Wars 2

Sylv.5324:

I don’t remember who it was who said that gamers have a habit of buying a game that is stated to be one way, in the hopes that it will change.

I don’t know who, but many people tie the knot in hopes it brings change. When that doesn’t work, the next hope a baby will.

I also miss the Trinity. Rolling a healer is fun.

If GW2 is going the way of dungeon running, tanking etc, we need a class that can heal. They said they wouldn’t add gear grind. WELL they did, didn’t they? So what if they add a healing class?

Many of the enemy encounters in this game require very little thought or skill, but the issue isn’t with the lack of the trinity, the issue is just bad encounter design.

What I enjoy about the combat in this game is having to time your abilities to counter or mitigate enemy attacks. Blinding before a powerful attack, stability before you get knocked into lava, reflection when an enemy uses projectiles, heals and regen while an ally waits for his own self heal to come off CD. The encounters need to be designed to take advantage of what the combat has to offer, because atm, most fights only require high DPS and the ability to dodge red circles.

I like the trinity system, but I want ANet to refine their take on MMO combat and fix the things that don’t work instead of scrapping what they worked so hard to build.

Sylv.5324:

I don’t remember who it was who said that gamers have a habit of buying a game that is stated to be one way, in the hopes that it will change. When this change doesn’t happen, they get upset and rage that this is why the game fails, etc etc.

People bought this game knowing there would be no trinity. That’s been said right from the start.

Why are people raging now? Claiming that’s why it fails etc, etc— you knew what kind of game this was! Why do you feel the need to sneer at five years worth of dev time, up-front statements during all that time, beta testimonials, etc, that this was not a trinity game?

Why are you disappointed that it’s not a trinity game? You knew what you were buying!

Buy the game as it is, so you won’t be upset when the devs don’t about face on one of the core principles of the entire game’s design.

Fail argument. Again. People like you fail to understand that someone bought the game because he thought that no trinity will be ok. ATM it is not, either bring trinity back, or fix the no-trinity system or however you fanboy call it so it will involve some skill and strategy that will keep players …playing.

It is like ordering a pizza that you never tried before. You order it because you think it might be good, when you try it, its not THAT good so because you are kind you suggest the chef what to change to make it great no? Because you don’t say that you knew what were you buying and you have no rights no complain or criticize? Cause if you do… well than good luck irl.

Vasham.2408:

Coldtart.4785:

The trinity in other mmos takes absolutely zero skill. So long as you know what you have to do and when and your gear is up to par, you cannot fail. You may as well play DDR on your keyboard.

I find this statement funny. Anyone who makes this remark clearly has zero experience in true endgame content in other MMOs. Have you ever killed Algalon the Observer? Maybe Akylios? How about any boss from Final Fantasy 11? I would wager any player who says the trinity takes zero skill probably played WoW to level thirty and quit.

The most basic of endgame encounters in any other MMO you can mention put GW2 to shame in terms of challenge and skill requirement. This isn’t an opinion, it’s a fact.

The game designer’s at Arena Net aren’t very good at making challenging end game content yet. Healing and Tanking are old systems that are obsolete. Breaking that mold will take awhile.

Przemek.6835:

I am playing more or less frequently because the game is enjoyable for me which doesn’t mean it is perfect.

Why not?

It’s a video game. You say you enjoy it. What else is missing in the equation?

Przemek.6835:

Sylv.5324:

I don’t remember who it was who said that gamers have a habit of buying a game that is stated to be one way, in the hopes that it will change. When this change doesn’t happen, they get upset and rage that this is why the game fails, etc etc.

People bought this game knowing there would be no trinity. That’s been said right from the start.

Why are people raging now? Claiming that’s why it fails etc, etc— you knew what kind of game this was! Why do you feel the need to sneer at five years worth of dev time, up-front statements during all that time, beta testimonials, etc, that this was not a trinity game?

Why are you disappointed that it’s not a trinity game? You knew what you were buying!

Buy the game as it is, so you won’t be upset when the devs don’t about face on one of the core principles of the entire game’s design.

Fail argument. Again. People like you fail to understand that someone bought the game because he thought that no trinity will be ok. ATM it is not, either bring trinity back, or fix the no-trinity system or however you fanboy call it so it will involve some skill and strategy that will keep players …playing.

It is like ordering a pizza that you never tried before. You order it because you think it might be good, when you try it, its not THAT good so because you are kind you suggest the chef what to change to make it great no? Because you don’t say that you knew what were you buying and you have no rights no complain or criticize? Cause if you do… well than good luck irl.

People like you fail to understand the difference between complaining and demanding.

You can complain. And move on. But you do NOT demand that they change something according to what you think is right, especially when obviously more than half of the people at least in the forums -who also paid for the game, btw- thinks and feels otherwise, despite of how reasonable you build your arguments.

Vasham.2408:

It’s a well known fact that GW2’s PVE is horrible. Trash mobs have ridiculous health pools, boss strategies consist of nothing more than “kite and dodge” with singular gimmicks if you’re lucky. Event bosses, meant to replace raiding, are mindless zergfests with no strategy involved (Risen High Priests) or giant monsters that sit in one place and roar at you helplessly while you kill them with zero resistance or challenge (the dragon encounters, also Zhaitan). It doesn’t help that the loot from all of this is either non existent or just plain sucks.

There’s a simple reason why this is true and will remain an unbreakable constant for GW2’s lifespan as a game. It’s the much touted “no holy trinity” gameplay. Now I know how the responses to this will go:

But Vasham, the trinity just put all the responsibility on the healer and no one else! DPS could sleepwalk through encounters and tanks just had to not die!

False. To say the trinity was that simplistic shows one’s ignorance of PVE mechanics and overall lack of experience in true endgame content. Tanks, DPS, and Healers all had specific sub-duties in encounters, mechanics to watch for, and skills to master beyond their base role in the raid. I would dare say the trinity required a higher skill ceiling than any role a class can play in GW2.

But the trinity forces people into playstyles they don’t like and extends the time it takes to form a group!

False. While a time existed in previous MMOs where to play a certain class meant you played a certain role in the trinity that time has long passed. MMOs with good class balance (read: anything not by Arenanet) have either been released or changed their classes so the one you play isn’t pigeonholed into a specific role. I never met a tank or healer in WoW, Rift, or other games that played those roles exclusively yet didn’t enjoy it. The lack of those roles have turned many players away from GW2, and I can’t blame them.

But the trinity is an old and tired system! This game’s system is new!

New doesn’t mean good, if anything it’s proven the opposite. The lack of the trinity as a solid foundation for encounter design is why GW2 has had such trouble with it’s PVE content. Arenanet made the mistake of viewing the trinity in such shallow terms during development that they forgot why it’s stood the test of time. Without the trinity to provide that basic framework encounters boil down to a murky cloud of damage dealing and kiting. There’s nothing to support more advanced mechanics than the most basic of gimmicks as GW2’s dungeons and events have proved, and the new Fractals dungeon has reinforced that proof.

Deny it all you want, but PVE players are the backbone of a healthy MMO. With GW2’s sPVP in a rapid decline and the pipe dream of esports becoming more unreachable every day Arenanet will need to appease the PVE playerbase to stay afloat. With such poor encounter design limited by a wide eyed dream of a world with no trinity it’s an avenue they are not prepared to deliver on unless drastic change is made to class balance and the trinity is reinstated.

That, or we can look forward to spamming 2 again to kill the next Elder Dragon.

Wrong. Wrong game (see contents before opening) and wrong answer. I am selling lemonade and I sell lemonade to 2 million happy customers and then you walk up and say “hey, got any grapes?”. I tell you I only sell lemonade and you insist you want grapes so I should re-tool my lemonade stand. You sir, are then pelted with lemons. Fin~

projectcedric.6951:

Przemek.6835:

I am playing more or less frequently because the game is enjoyable for me which doesn’t mean it is perfect.

Why not?

It’s a video game. You say you enjoy it. What else is missing in the equation?

You misunderstood me. I enjoy a part of it wnich is exploring, crafting etc. Aka doing stuff that for me always worked as a sort of “addition” to pve and pvp wnich in this game makes me alt f4 after 5 minutes of it. Boring. Skillless. Repetetive. Etc Etc Etc. I can write an essay of trakittenalk about the problem but why would I if you don’t get simple statement. I draw you an illustration to help u understand what I mean

TERRIBLE—-NOT BAD—-GW2—-GREAT——————————-PERFECT

Zeldain.5710:

I haven’t seen a single example of teamwork, and it’s specifically because combat is a free-for-all DPS zerg.

We were four-manning Fractals.

A team-mate went down on the last boss of the Asuran fractal with the jumping puzzle (the name escapes me).

While the other 2 were reviving, I kept the Golem away.

That counts, right?

Przemek.6835:

People like you fail to understand that someone bought the game because he thought that no trinity will be ok.

It IS ok. You can efficiently clear the content with no dedicated healers, because the hybrid nature of each class means that each can bring its support capabilities to a dungeon and assist their teammates.

projectcedric.6951:

Przemek.6835:

Sylv.5324:

I don’t remember who it was who said that gamers have a habit of buying a game that is stated to be one way, in the hopes that it will change. When this change doesn’t happen, they get upset and rage that this is why the game fails, etc etc.

People bought this game knowing there would be no trinity. That’s been said right from the start.

Why are people raging now? Claiming that’s why it fails etc, etc— you knew what kind of game this was! Why do you feel the need to sneer at five years worth of dev time, up-front statements during all that time, beta testimonials, etc, that this was not a trinity game?

Why are you disappointed that it’s not a trinity game? You knew what you were buying!

Buy the game as it is, so you won’t be upset when the devs don’t about face on one of the core principles of the entire game’s design.

Fail argument. Again. People like you fail to understand that someone bought the game because he thought that no trinity will be ok. ATM it is not, either bring trinity back, or fix the no-trinity system or however you fanboy call it so it will involve some skill and strategy that will keep players …playing.

It is like ordering a pizza that you never tried before. You order it because you think it might be good, when you try it, its not THAT good so because you are kind you suggest the chef what to change to make it great no? Because you don’t say that you knew what were you buying and you have no rights no complain or criticize? Cause if you do… well than good luck irl.

People like you fail to understand the difference between complaining and demanding.

You can complain. And move on. But you do NOT demand that they change something according to what you think is right, especially when obviously more than half of the people at least in the forums -who also paid for the game, btw- thinks and feels otherwise, despite of how reasonable you build your arguments.

How can you assume ANY numbers. Like… to you it is obvious that MORE THAN HALF (at least the half that is using the forums, wnich is not half, not even a quarter but nvm) think otherwise. That being said I am wrong, because the majority enjoys the game and the forums are just full of “thank-you” letters to ANet for creating the best game ever with absolutely no flaws. AmIright?

In case THIS isn’t obvious (it should be but w/e). Only a little little little % of people are using the forums. And from reading it I see that not everyone is happy with the way that the game is now. About the demand/criticize. I do criticize, I don’t demand, as every player because demanding something isn’t my thing. If I will get bored of the game I will quit and so will everyone whether he likes the game or not. Boredom = quit. Criticizing something is like saying “hey, this is bad, and gets me bored if u think I am not the only one, fix it”

No thank you no trinity otherwise i would play other mmos but im not.

couple of reasons :

1st you have healers and tanks thinking they are more important than everyone else in a group which in turns breeds a horrible community.

2nd There is no way in wow that a dps player get a quick group you always wait much longer than a tank or healer.

Also whats the point of standing still in a fight thats the most boring thing in other mmos for me doesnt matter what you do you always gets hit that is just not realistic its like standing still in front of a person with a gun and just wait for him to shoot you and hoping for the best.

It is not as if you didnt know that there is not gonna be a trinity either if that was your thing why switch to another mmo. If the wow type machanics is your thing then play wow that is the exact same reason i moved to guildwars the trinity is not my thing so i left wow and im happy.

A few things…

1. Anybody who thinks trinity is “tank and spank”, “hp whack-a-mole”, “no skill/challenge”. You are right. You also must be extremely bad players. What trinity does is give you options. You can be bad and bored or you can be good and take encounters to the next level.

2. I frankly didn’t know what I was getting myself into when I bought GW2. I knew they didn’t have a “holy trinity”, but nobody could tell me how they did it. I had it down to 2 possibilities. Everybody is a dps with wanna-be support. Or every class can fulfil any role. I figured, it must be the second one, which would’ve made it the perfect game for me since all my healers(at least those I played for more than 2 days) could tank, support and dps at a decent lvl(basically, i’d build a jack of all trades from a healer). Sadly, it was the first option. I love everything else about this game or at least could love if I had the option to play the way I wanted to. Instead I’m just getting hyped about ArcheAge and hoping it comes out in 2013.

There was more, but I got distracted xD

Przemek.6835:

projectcedric.6951:

Przemek.6835:

I am playing more or less frequently because the game is enjoyable for me which doesn’t mean it is perfect.

Why not?

It’s a video game. You say you enjoy it. What else is missing in the equation?

You misunderstood me. I enjoy a part of it wnich is exploring, crafting etc. Aka doing stuff that for me always worked as a sort of “addition” to pve and pvp wnich in this game makes me alt f4 after 5 minutes of it. Boring. Skillless. Repetetive. Etc Etc Etc. I can write an essay of trakittenalk about the problem but why would I if you don’t get simple statement. I draw you an illustration to help u understand what I mean

TERRIBLE—-NOT BAD—-GW2—-GREAT——————————-PERFECT

On the contrary, I think what you’re saying here is simple.

You bought a game with a set expectations of what you consider a “perfect” game, and found out that more than half of the game didn’t meet your expectations. While there are some aspects which do and still keep you playing ‘enjoyably’.

And now you are…“suggesting”… that they change the game according to what you want, so that it will become the image of the “perfect” game you had in mind.

So what do we say that?

Boohoo.

i bought this game because it has no trinity, i don’t miss it and i don’t want it back, if it does come back i’m asking a refund, and i’ll not be the only one.

Do not try to change the main selling point, the no trinity does work, for good players that is. Stop blaiming your own failure on this game.

That is all.

How about random people who don’t know each other stopping in the middle of an event and reviving someone even though it costs them a chance at some loot to stop and do so? That counts as teamwork right?

Same with running out of your way to help someone that is down rather than ignoring them and continuing on your way.

Or a warrior equipping a warhorn on switch rather than a bow or rifle so he can buff other players rather than picking up a few extra kills for himself.

Or having your thief run/evade rather than stealth and break aggro to keep the mobs off the enchantress or necro you’re playing with and at the same time kite/herd the mobs into zones for their attacks – and then unload on the mobs yourself.

That and a bunch of other teamwork happens in these so-called mindless zergs all the time.

Osculim.2983:

No thank you no trinity otherwise i would play other mmos but im not.

couple of reasons :

1st you have healers and tanks thinking they are more important than everyone else in a group which in turns breeds a horrible community.

2nd There is no way in wow that a dps player get a quick group you always wait much longer than a tank or healer.

Also whats the point of standing still in a fight thats the most boring thing in other mmos for me doesnt matter what you do you always gets hit that is just not realistic its like standing still in front of a person with a gun and just wait for him to shoot you and hoping for the best.

It is not as if you didnt know that there is not gonna be a trinity either if that was your thing why switch to another mmo. If the wow type machanics is your thing then play wow that is the exact same reason i moved to guildwars the trinity is not my thing so i left wow and im happy.

Speaking about the realism… how realistic downstate is? You lay down and raise your hand so you can magically get back to fight endless times?

I won’t comment on finding party because I haven’t tried much yet. Looking at other posts tho it seems that finding one is easier with certain classes/specs. For me it doesn’t matter if I have to look longer because bleeds dont stack past 25 or because they already have 3 dpsers.

Looking at your post you are another one that thinks trinitiy=wow and thats the game on wnich you are basing your opinion. Well than I did every raid and dungeon in that crappy game and I hardly ever stood still during encounter, and I only stood still because I couldnt cast while moving and every second of not casting counts as dps loss.

On a side, in WoW after every encounter I knew I could have played better. I messed spell priority a bit, or I popped my cds a while too fast. I don’t have that feeling in gw2 there is no self improvement.

Przemek.6835:

projectcedric.6951:

Przemek.6835:

Sylv.5324:

I don’t remember who it was who said that gamers have a habit of buying a game that is stated to be one way, in the hopes that it will change. When this change doesn’t happen, they get upset and rage that this is why the game fails, etc etc.

People bought this game knowing there would be no trinity. That’s been said right from the start.

Why are people raging now? Claiming that’s why it fails etc, etc— you knew what kind of game this was! Why do you feel the need to sneer at five years worth of dev time, up-front statements during all that time, beta testimonials, etc, that this was not a trinity game?

Why are you disappointed that it’s not a trinity game? You knew what you were buying!

Buy the game as it is, so you won’t be upset when the devs don’t about face on one of the core principles of the entire game’s design.

Fail argument. Again. People like you fail to understand that someone bought the game because he thought that no trinity will be ok. ATM it is not, either bring trinity back, or fix the no-trinity system or however you fanboy call it so it will involve some skill and strategy that will keep players …playing.

It is like ordering a pizza that you never tried before. You order it because you think it might be good, when you try it, its not THAT good so because you are kind you suggest the chef what to change to make it great no? Because you don’t say that you knew what were you buying and you have no rights no complain or criticize? Cause if you do… well than good luck irl.

People like you fail to understand the difference between complaining and demanding.

You can complain. And move on. But you do NOT demand that they change something according to what you think is right, especially when obviously more than half of the people at least in the forums -who also paid for the game, btw- thinks and feels otherwise, despite of how reasonable you build your arguments.

How can you assume ANY numbers. Like… to you it is obvious that MORE THAN HALF (at least the half that is using the forums, wnich is not half, not even a quarter but nvm) think otherwise. That being said I am wrong, because the majority enjoys the game and the forums are just full of “thank-you” letters to ANet for creating the best game ever with absolutely no flaws. AmIright?

In case THIS isn’t obvious (it should be but w/e). Only a little little little % of people are using the forums. And from reading it I see that not everyone is happy with the way that the game is now. About the demand/criticize. I do criticize, I don’t demand, as every player because demanding something isn’t my thing. If I will get bored of the game I will quit and so will everyone whether he likes the game or not. Boredom = quit. Criticizing something is like saying “hey, this is bad, and gets me bored if u think I am not the only one, fix it”

Yup, you’re right. Only a small percentage of the playerbase ever visits the forums.

The majority, I feel —and I dont have backing evidence here, but yeah, w/e too-- is playing inside the game. Because you know, its actually more efficient if they complain about their dissatisfaction in-game. In fact, I think those people are just about to quit because they feel like Anet is not giving a kitten about their complaints. So they are in-game because they are so unhappy about this whole failure of game.

Criticism: “hey, this is bad, and gets me bored”

Demand: “if u think I am not the only one, fix it”

projectcedric.6951:

Przemek.6835:

projectcedric.6951:

Przemek.6835:

I am playing more or less frequently because the game is enjoyable for me which doesn’t mean it is perfect.

Why not?

It’s a video game. You say you enjoy it. What else is missing in the equation?

You misunderstood me. I enjoy a part of it wnich is exploring, crafting etc. Aka doing stuff that for me always worked as a sort of “addition” to pve and pvp wnich in this game makes me alt f4 after 5 minutes of it. Boring. Skillless. Repetetive. Etc Etc Etc. I can write an essay of trakittenalk about the problem but why would I if you don’t get simple statement. I draw you an illustration to help u understand what I mean

TERRIBLE—-NOT BAD—-GW2—-GREAT——————————-PERFECT

On the contrary, I think what you’re saying here is simple.

You bought a game with a set expectations of what you consider a “perfect” game, and found out that more than half of the game didn’t meet your expectations. While there are some aspects which do and still keep you playing ‘enjoyably’.

And now you are…“suggesting”… that they change the game according to what you want, so that it will become the image of the “perfect” game you had in mind.

So what do we say that?

Boohoo.

Soz for double post, this is going to be my last one. Gonna play some LoL. Neither your opinion or my does matter. There are 2 opposite directions that this game can take. Maybe more. What matters is wnich direction more players will like. We dont matter.

Can’t believe I just read through all of this… In any event, I have a high enough (too high?) opinion of myself to post my thoughts on the matter.

My background: I started in GW1 which had a version of the trinity (aggro control was both simple and challenging). I’ve spent most the last year mostly focusing on Lotro end-game which had a straight up trinity with threat mechanic. Some of my favorite moments in gaming came as being part of a coordinated team in these games.

However, that does not mean that I feel I need trinity back in this game. One of the things I noticed in Lotro (painfully) is that all of my skill as a tank was utterly useless on the PvP field. This caused a significant separation between the way I geared/played in PvE vs how I geared/played in PvP. Guildwars has always been imagined to keep the play style similar between PvE and PvP. It’s not perfect, so there is some separation, but they are able to keep it closer than most. That’s why we find that glass cannons are usually much harder to play in PvE.

My experience with current PvE is that it’s Zerg or die. However, I’m also rolling some pretty fragile characters and running under level. However, I believe it is also because players are able to advance without any knowledge of how to skillfully play their class or build. Actually, my opinion is that ANet purposefully has left it to the player base to figure out while playing how to build highly successful coordinated groups. I think that the raw material is all there, we just need to learn how to use it, and we can draw inspiration from how PvP teams are being built and are successful:

Spikes, pressure, bunker, AoE vs Focused attack, combat awareness, timing, coordinating skills, communication.

So… There’s my ramble on this. Thanks for listening.

MisterEction.9382:

That and a bunch of other teamwork happens in these so-called mindless zergs all the time.

Everyone who says “mindless-zerg” figures that because they’re mashing buttons with no strat, it must be what everyone is doing. It’s really funny when people say that dungeons are “zerg fests” because 5 people apparently constistute a zergling horde.

Mackdose.6504:

MisterEction.9382:

That and a bunch of other teamwork happens in these so-called mindless zergs all the time.

Everyone who says “mindless-zerg” figures that because they’re mashing buttons with no strat, it must be what everyone is doing. It’s really funny when people say that dungeons are “zerg fests” because 5 people apparently constistute a zergling horde.

All you have to do in PvE in press 1 and you win. That is mindless.

Nayru.4537:

Mackdose.6504:

MisterEction.9382:

That and a bunch of other teamwork happens in these so-called mindless zergs all the time.

Everyone who says “mindless-zerg” figures that because they’re mashing buttons with no strat, it must be what everyone is doing. It’s really funny when people say that dungeons are “zerg fests” because 5 people apparently constistute a zergling horde.

All you have to do in PvE in press 1 and you win. That is mindless.

I thought trolling wasn’t allowed on this forum?

If I remember correctly ArenaNet didn’t want to have no trinity at all, but didn’t want to have it FIXED.
Like
“You can play an ELEMENTALIST and any other class in the way you want it”
and NOT
“Every class can do anything at the SAME time”

But ArenaNet seemingly only killed the tactical aspect of teamwork. That’s why I quit.
I came back a few minutes ago to check the state of the game and I like the changes they did to the Mesmer, so yeah, I am trying it out again.

And just one question people, as I read only
“NO I HATE TRINITY, IT SUCKS” and “YES I LOVE TRINITY, I WANT IT!”…
Are you against the Trinity because you think that you will be “pressed” into a role that you can’t really change anymore?
Because I think that ArenaNet would simply have to give us more options to individualize.

Everyone does everything at the same time, which shouldn’t be in the game like it is right now. You should be able to be a true “tank”, “damage dealer” or “healer” if you want to. Because a player that WANTS to be healing his allies should be able to do so (with any class!), but right now, he can’t.
No player or class can really “specialize” right now, only add some effects here and there. And that is the main issue.
Because, people, something like the Trinity is not bad at all, just stop imagining everything in either “COMPLETE FREEDOM” or “FORCING TRINITY”, because everything can be tweaked here and there.

And of course, enemies and bosses lack depth. But that is another story.

And yet, people CAN specialise into healing their teammates. It is just not ALL that they can do.

I didnt read your whole post but your title says it all. Just when I think the game cant get any worse I am amazed to see some people want it too.

The trinity is a failed system, I bought GW2 because it DIDN’T have the trinity. I believe anyone who wants a trinity fails to understand how GW2’s endgame works. Everyone needs to be their own “tank and healer,” all the while pumping out decent damage. Stop holding onto those feelings about going absolute max glass cannon and receiving no punishment for it.

Balance is key in GW2. If you can make glass cannon work then good for you, it takes more skill, if you can’t then you will do nothing but hinder your group as they continue to bring you up from downed. When I do dungeons I refuse to bring glass cannons because of this.

Sorry about the rant, I am simply annoyed by players who want GW2 to be “wowified” simply because they aren’t creative enough to find their ideal build. There are still roles in GW2, (damage, support, control) it is the player’s job to find the combination they feel best with.

Przemek.6835:

On a side, in WoW after every encounter I knew I could have played better. I messed spell priority a bit, or I popped my cds a while too fast. I don’t have that feeling in gw2 there is no self improvement.

What a load of bull, man.

Let’s cut the crap, ok? Don’t insult our intelligence. I can practically do this in ANY game. This so-called “self-improvement”. I can do this in Pacman or Mafia Wars. I’ll just think “next time I’ll eat the dots faster” or “time my clicking one second better so I maximize my energy refill”.

What you have here, as much as I do and everybody else in this forum.. is bias. PURE BIAS!

Truth is, you can come around here, pretend like you’re so smart better than every body else and throw in your arguments till New Year’s Eve, and there will always be people like me meeting you head on, but the fact is, it doesn’t come down to what is right or wrong, logical or not, fail or not fail. It just comes down to what YOU like and don’t like about the game.

Don’t give us all these argumentative stuffs like you have the answer to every problem -when you just want the ideal you had in your head- because for every one reason you put up there, I have another one just the same.

One thing that completely escapes me is how everyone seems to think GW2’s current system of dodging and spanking is somehow mutually exclusive with having some sort of specific roles. You do realise that they could just as easily keep players dodging, managing boons and conditions AND have dedicated healers and tanks? Wouldn’t it be TRUE diversity if you had multiple ways of approaching an encounter, multiple roles, flexibility and yet have the ability for people to specialise as well?

How would it work? VERY easily. You could have essentially four modes for each class: current way of things, let’s just call it Balance spec where you have a mix of self heals, utility and DPS, then have a DPS mode, where you get more DPS while sacrificing healing and survivability and finally separate tank and healer specs, where you gain survivability and healing ability respectively, at the cost of DPS ability. That way, you’d never find yourself in a situation where you’re lacking some key class, but you’d also have multiple ways of approaching the encounters. Instead of penalising me for wanting to play a healer, the game would just be like “Ok son, go do your thing and have fun!”.

Sylv.5324:

And yet, people CAN specialise into healing their teammates. It is just not ALL that they can do.

I’ve done this. Healing Power scaling is horrible, but it forces me to pop my heals and regens at the right moments. I don’t think healing in this game is supposed to keep HP at full, it’s supposed to act as damage mitigation. I didn’t like healing at first, but once I realized that I enjoy it.

Przemek.6835:

projectcedric.6951:

Przemek.6835:

projectcedric.6951:

Przemek.6835:

I am playing more or less frequently because the game is enjoyable for me which doesn’t mean it is perfect.

Why not?

It’s a video game. You say you enjoy it. What else is missing in the equation?

You misunderstood me. I enjoy a part of it wnich is exploring, crafting etc. Aka doing stuff that for me always worked as a sort of “addition” to pve and pvp wnich in this game makes me alt f4 after 5 minutes of it. Boring. Skillless. Repetetive. Etc Etc Etc. I can write an essay of trakittenalk about the problem but why would I if you don’t get simple statement. I draw you an illustration to help u understand what I mean

TERRIBLE—-NOT BAD—-GW2—-GREAT——————————-PERFECT

On the contrary, I think what you’re saying here is simple.

You bought a game with a set expectations of what you consider a “perfect” game, and found out that more than half of the game didn’t meet your expectations. While there are some aspects which do and still keep you playing ‘enjoyably’.

And now you are…“suggesting”… that they change the game according to what you want, so that it will become the image of the “perfect” game you had in mind.

So what do we say that?

Boohoo.

Soz for double post, this is going to be my last one. Gonna play some LoL. Neither your opinion or my does matter. There are 2 opposite directions that this game can take. Maybe more. What matters is wnich direction more players will like. We dont matter.

Good you realized.

Przemek.6835:

Osculim.2983:

No thank you no trinity otherwise i would play other mmos but im not.

couple of reasons :

1st you have healers and tanks thinking they are more important than everyone else in a group which in turns breeds a horrible community.

2nd There is no way in wow that a dps player get a quick group you always wait much longer than a tank or healer.

Also whats the point of standing still in a fight thats the most boring thing in other mmos for me doesnt matter what you do you always gets hit that is just not realistic its like standing still in front of a person with a gun and just wait for him to shoot you and hoping for the best.

It is not as if you didnt know that there is not gonna be a trinity either if that was your thing why switch to another mmo. If the wow type machanics is your thing then play wow that is the exact same reason i moved to guildwars the trinity is not my thing so i left wow and im happy.

Speaking about the realism… how realistic downstate is? You lay down and raise your hand so you can magically get back to fight endless times?

I won’t comment on finding party because I haven’t tried much yet. Looking at other posts tho it seems that finding one is easier with certain classes/specs. For me it doesn’t matter if I have to look longer because bleeds dont stack past 25 or because they already have 3 dpsers.

Looking at your post you are another one that thinks trinitiy=wow and thats the game on wnich you are basing your opinion. Well than I did every raid and dungeon in that crappy game and I hardly ever stood still during encounter, and I only stood still because I couldnt cast while moving and every second of not casting counts as dps loss.

On a side, in WoW after every encounter I knew I could have played better. I messed spell priority a bit, or I popped my cds a while too fast. I don’t have that feeling in gw2 there is no self improvement.

I think you misunderstood what i said even if you move around you still get hit in wow for example a mage throw a fireball at you no matter how much you move around that said fireball always hits where in gw2 you at least have a chance to dodge that fireball

Vasham.2408:

It’s a well known fact that GW2’s PVE is horrible.

Stopped reading there. Untrue. Moving on.

I really enjoy having no trinity.

Zeldain.5710:

Notice we haven’t heard a peep out of Mike O’Brien since all of the boasting interviews about how GW2 will be #1 and beat World of Warcraft?

This is just flat out wrong. Nobody at Anet ever said anything about being #1 and beating WoW.

Chakashio.1285:

And just one question people, as I read only
“NO I HATE TRINITY, IT SUCKS” and “YES I LOVE TRINITY, I WANT IT!”…
Are you against the Trinity because you think that you will be “pressed” into a role that you can’t really change anymore?
Because I think that ArenaNet would simply have to give us more options to individualize.

I’m only speaking for myself, but I don’t hate trinity nor I love it.

In fact, before this, there wouldn’t even be a question. Mmorpg? Trinity. Just choose your class already. It comes as naturally as fighting games have health bars. Except for some few mmorpgs, like Runescape (which..is weird in its own way).

I think this whole meta-awareness that there is a trinity-system is founded on the fundamental question that I believe GW2 -intentionally or not- explores:

WHY do we need a trinity system?

The problem that is making all this noise around, you see, is that some people liked the way Anet did it, some people don’t. I mean, nobody goes around admitting this, but strip things down and basically it is it (just dont argue with me on this one).

And you can read every single thread that has been made since time immemorial about this dichotomy, and you’ll realize there is absolutely no reason at all why one combat system is objectively better than the other EXCEPT PREFERENCE.

That being said, my point is this: I’ts not like I can’t play any other mmorpgs if I choose to play GW2. If I want a dungeon-based game at any moment, I’ll play another game that specializes in dungeon runs. If I want a trinity-based, I’ll play one.

So it just so happens that there is a game that is NOT trinity and I bought it for that reason -regardless of how people think it is a fail or win- and I enjoy playing that game, why in F’s name would I want it to become like the other trinity games?

Vasham.2408:

It’s a well known fact that GW2’s PVE is horrible.

False. Its your opinion.

Laissez Faire.8624:

Vasham.2408:

It’s a well known fact that GW2’s PVE is horrible.

Stopped reading there. Untrue. Moving on.

Majority of peoples opinion moves more towards true rather than untrue. Moving on.

Sylv.5324:

And yet, people CAN specialise into healing their teammates. It is just not ALL that they can do.

I’ve noticed that your heals aren’t worth much if the person you’re healing doesn’t know how to back off, dodge, or pop their own evades/heals when they’re suppose to. I love that about this game. It takes teamwork for alot of things. Even healing and being healed.

X The Manimal.5293:

Sylv.5324:

And yet, people CAN specialise into healing their teammates. It is just not ALL that they can do.

I’ve noticed that your heals aren’t worth much if the person you’re healing doesn’t know how to back off, dodge, or pop their own evades/heals when they’re suppose to. I love that about this game. It takes teamwork for alot of things. Even healing and being healed.

I agree.

It’s not to everyone’s taste because it’s less linear, but that doesn’t mean it has to change.

I really don’t get it. You can play tons of games out there with trinity yet you stand here and say I want something the game is not designed to directly support. You know it is not supported as such, you know they are not going to implement it. Yet you still are here. You can shrug me off as a fanboy, you could read my posts easily and see I am anything but, but that would not fit your world view so you will ignore it.
My advice and advice that has been ignored by you before, find a game with a trinity and play it.

Nayru.4537:

All you have to do in PvE in press 1 and you win. That is mindless.

Depends on where you are talking. Trash mob, probably so. But there are plenty of encounters that strategy if one were to call it that, will fail. But then I think of other games and their trash mobs, most would probably fall to with the most basic attack.

Yargesh.4965:

Snip

I really don’t get it. I’m such a fanboy.

Snip

He is saying he feels the game would be better with the trinity.

Now how about you post something constructive to add to the discussion instead of just bashing the OP because you disagree?

The main thing I see in these topics is a lot of scared people hating on WoW’s system because they don’t like it.

The thing is, WoW didn’t invent the so-called ‘holy trinity’. If you go back further and look at stuff like the original EQ, you had to actually TRY to tank and the dps had to work hard to not pull aggro off of the tank. You had to kite, you had to manage buffs and debuffs. Your healer had to carefully manage their mana or they would run out long before the fight was done.

Those all required skill and effort. Yes, WoW has gone to a point where you could pretty much roll your face along the keyboard and win, but there are plenty of other MMOs that showed how to make it a challenge.

Not only that, but there are games out there that showed you can drop the ‘Holy Trinity’ and still make a good system. City of Heroes/Villains was wildly successful. They had a tank archetype, but you didn’t need them to tank for you. They had a support archetype, but you didn’t need them to heal for you. You had all the roles, you just didn’t HAVE to have them in any setup to make things work.

That’s the sort of thing GW2 needs imo. Roles that actually matter. Some feeling that what you DO actually matters. Right now it just seems like a cluster kitten where everyone spams skills until something dies.

The trinity is a bad mechanic in any game even if the game was designed for it.

You can’t just be tank,healer, or dps. You have to be the best/cookie cutter roll or you have to have some kind of gimmick that warrants you a spot in pve raids. This then starts the homginazation of class as all rolls need to be as good as each other and no one can have something that other classes don’t bring because it keeps people from bring certain classes.

Just thinking about it makes me disgusted and reminds me why I’m here and not playing wow/rift/swtor or some other EQ clone.

Vasham.2408:

Coffeebot.3921:

Here’s a challenge for you OP, name one game with the holy trinity that a) Wished it were WoW by virtue of it’s mechanics and play style and b) Didn’t rely on a gear based revolving door to force people use the trinity.

Guild Wars 1

Well considering that GW1 in no way resembles WoW’s design structure, I think you’re wrong.

That said, having read your original post….it sounds like you want to play GW1.

Fine, go play it. It’s still running, after all. There’s no reason you can’t go play it right now. So please, leave and go play GW1, since you clearly feel it is the superior game then there’s no reason to stay here.

As for myself? Removing the trinity is the best thing to ever happen to GW2, and I love its PvE primarily because we don’t have to worry about picking a “healer” for every party, we can just roll with whatever classes we want.

critickitten.1498:

Fine, go play it. It’s still running, after all. There’s no reason you can’t go play it right now. So please, leave and go play GW1, since you clearly feel it is the superior game then there’s no reason to stay here.

Except GW1 got abandoned by devs months ago. No more updates and exodus of players.

P.S. GW1 is superior in every aspect.

critickitten.1498:

As for myself? Removing the trinity is the best thing to ever happen to GW2, and I love its PvE primarily because we don’t have to worry about picking a “healer” for every party, we can just roll with whatever classes we want.

Because there is no variation? Fun, fun, fun!

how about you giving a real quote instead.

Nayru.4537:

Yargesh.4965:

Snip

I really don’t get it. I’m such a fanboy.

Snip

He is saying he feels the game would be better with the trinity.

Now how about you post something constructive to add to the discussion instead of just bashing the OP because you disagree?

Rhysati.4932:

City of Heroes/Villains was wildly successful. They had a tank archetype, but you didn’t need them to tank for you. They had a support archetype, but you didn’t need them to heal for you. You had all the roles, you just didn’t HAVE to have them in any setup to make things work.

Idk, man, but doesn’t that seem like more fail to you than any of the other two systems talked about here?

Its like they’re saying “Hey, we designed some archetypal character roles for you -which by right we intend for you to play in a certain way- but you can pretty much play however you want with them”

And I would be like “So… um… which one is it really? Defined roles or not? You seem like you cant make up your mind.”

Karate do or karate dont. No karate middle.