Guild Wars 2

Korrigan.4837:

Khallis.5708:

imagine if this was a monthly sub game? i would love to see how many would have hit the unsubscribe button over this.

i think i would have.

I’ve bought 80 Euros worth of gems since release – I can hit that “unsubscribe” button anytime by not buying any more gems, which I will do if they persist in this move to turn GW2 into another gear carrot game.

Sky.9347:

Khallis.5708:

imagine if this was a monthly sub game? i would love to see how many would have hit the unsubscribe button over this.

i think i would have.

If they said to us… we need more revenue and therefore will be implementing a monthly subscription fee INSTEAD OF a vertical progression…

I would probably log into my account and enter a credit card number right now.

Alas, that is not the case.

I would do that too.

Exactly. I can choose to support or not support the game. Until now I have been supporting the game (averaging around 20 bucks a month, so basically like an expensive monthly fee). Even if there was nothing to buy with gems, I’ve been purchasing them monthly to support them (i believe in monthly fees, I think they are useful for games).

I will be removing that level of support. I’m not “whining and crying” about it, I just am. I won’t be purchasing gems anymore. I will continue to play the game until it ceases to be fun (I can’t say when that will be), but from the blog they are clearly not living up to what I believed they designed the game to be, so I no longer wish to support them. My goals in a game were in line with their original manifesto, and they no longer seem to be in line with that so I will “vote” with my money, by withholding it.

100% disappointed. Implementing this gear treadmill runs entirely counter to the manifesto and ideals you put forth as a company. I feel lied to as a customer, but that may be an exagerration and a misuse of the term lying.

I am saddened that you have caved into the WoW/gear progression crowd and have now turned me off to one of my favorite games of all time. A game I waited with baited breath for 6 years to play and you ruined it. The lack of a need to grind past a certain point was a high selling point of this game to me and something I derived great enjoyment from. I like having a “finished” character if you will. This allows me to play and live in the world of Tyria as my avatar. I’m no roleplayer here, but the point of an MMO is to have a living, breathing world to take part in not a never ending gear treadmill that forces you into a narrow set of activities just to advance. It also allows me to play what I want when I want. If I want to live in WvWvW I ought to be able to without sacrificing being on even footing with someone that fights against scripted monsters in an instanced environment.

Also might as well throw out that this gear is coming through dungeons from what I’ve seen and so far the dungeons are the weakest point in the game (for me). They’re TERRIBLE. I have no interest in running dungeons but will now be forced to in order to compete outside of PvE and more specifically in WvWvW. What this really means is I will go play another game that actually allows me to have fun rather than be forced into an activity I don’t enjoy just to keep up. But, hey ANet doesn’t need to give 2 cares about me playing any more because it’s a B2P title and they already got my money for the box. They can pull an entire SWG NGE here if they wanted to and it wouldn’t affect them one bit because they don’t have subscribers to maintain or cater to.

I always held ANet in good graces. Since the launch of GW2 they have plummetted in my opinion. While they may be better than some other companies. I am disgusted by some of the design decisions, disappointed with slow updates, a lack of any effective class balancing (so far it feels like it’s been handled with a battle axe rather than a scalpel), the wretched customer service, and the tyrannical moderation of the forums.

*If anyone here hasn’t you may want to take a look at the latest NCSoft financials, because as well as GW2 may have sold and be making revenue but it isn’t good enough. Q3 (post GW2 launch) NCsoft performed more poorly than Q2. You know what that means time to copy WoW to get those players pumping out the money.

Here’s the link to those reports: http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx

I wish they would stop merging everything that is discussing the gear while leaving all the thank you threads alone. Constancy is vital mods or people will start to presume there is a bit of bias going around.

[quote=716039;Antitheist.5306:]

Keep it coming Arena net, loving every minute of GW2, leaps and bounds better than any other game.

Antitheist.5306:

Why does everyone seem so quick to assume that ANet wants to piss of their players?

Because pretty much EVERY new MMO that has come out within the last 5 -7 years (if not longer) have all tried to copy WoW’s mechanics in the end. These various developer groups have all kinds of innovative ideas, but then up partially changing them during Beta due to the complaints of the “I’m tired of WoW” crowd because the new game isn’t close enough to WoW to suit their tastes. So as a reactionary measure, the devs disregard their original ideas and principles and alter their MMO to be more like WoW. However the “I’m tired of WoW” crowd never ends up being satisfied with this mutated MMO, so they return back to WoW. This leaves the MMO developers with a game that doesn’t match their original vision, an original player base that is hacked off that the devs changed their promised MMO in order to court the WoW crowd, and a group of flakey WoW players who will inevitably try to leave WoW by corrupting the next MMO (which will once again fail to meet their personal WoW standards). Rinse and repeat for every new MMO, which slowly implodes.

That’s what everyone is seeing ArenaNet do to GW2. I’d say that the writing is on the wall. Every MMO in recent memory has tried this game and they have all failed to court both the WoW crowd and their initial customer base. My hope was that with all of the Korean money behind GW2, ArenaNet would have a chance to forge their own path. Instead it looks like they’re going to convert into the WoW wanna’ be syndrome.

Vasham.2408:

Bellocchi.4593:

Antitheist.5306:

Finally, it does not seem that there are plans for gear beyond this tier, so it’s not a treadmill.

Are you that naïve?

I believe the question that should be asked is: are you?

One tier of gear released over time that ends once you’ve equipped a full set is not a gear treadmill. If you honestly think it is then you’re not very experienced in MMOs I’m afraid.

Doesn’t matter since you’re wrong either way.

over time??? Man, buy yourself a calendar, the game is out not even 3 months! Yes, I am very experienced in MMOs, I took part and also enjoyed the gear grinding, yes, it starts like that, everywhere, everytime. I haven´t seen a new tier being introduced that fast ever and even that was fine and dandy if they had not sold their whole franchise on the premise of being different from the market. Also, you may want to look up the meaning of naivé.

No to gear grind!
Please reconsider your decision!

Some people may find this an interesting read.

http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdiaries/1043-update-2-radiance-removal-developer-diary

It’s a dev diary from Turbine talking about why radiance ended up needing to be removed.

A quote from the article talking about radiance:

“As it turned out, however, we created nothing more than an arbitrary gating mechanic that forced players to get “keys” in order to enter raids.”

Korrigan.4837:

Crackbone.5710:

Korrigan.4837:

Crackbone.5710:

Korrigan.4837:

Crackbone.5710:

noskill.6294:

Guys:

Gw1——-> CORPG
Gw2——-> MMORPG

what is appening atm is absolutely normal.

Bingo.

Only people with little MMORPG experience, who only knew EQ/WoW clones, can think a gear grind is the only way to make a MMORPG “end game”. Any veteran who played those games since UO or before know WoW only took the easy route, and that there are many more ways to make a good MMORPG.

And this isn’t a sandbox.

If this were a sandbox, you’d have a valid argument, alas, it’s not. It’s not for that type market.

I’d suggest you go give Darkfall : Unholy Wars a try later this month if that’s what you are looking for.

AC1 wasn’t a sandbox yet didn’t have a gear grind either. Your argument doesn’t hold any water, except showing how limited your vision about what a MMORPG can be is.
Don’t limit what is possible to the limits of your own imagination.

I’m not the game designer.

This game has clearly been produced for the WoW era.

Unfortunately, imagination doesn’t pay the bills. If it did, we’d not be having this discussion in the first place, because their horizontal gear model would be working, and thriving.

Obviously, it’s not.

Clearly? Well, according to any promise made before release, along with the manifesto, the game was produced as a kick in the hornet’s nest compared to the stagnating market of (failing) WoW clones.

And about the second part of your post, you are assuming a lot. The game is a smashing success, with huge sales, and nowhere near your “obviously it’s not” assumption.

If this gear inflation really makes it into the game, I’ll be the one laughing at the likes of you, when the game merges servers and reduces content patches to focus on cash shop sales, because all those who believed in the manifesto have left the game.

Mark my words. Keep a link to my post if you want.

You keep assuming that I want a gear treadmill.

I’m not arguing for the treadmill. I’m trying to get to the root of the cause. I’ve stated plainly that I don’t think it’s the best answer, but it is the quickest one.

Don’t put words into my mouth. Clearly something wasn’t working for them under the current endgame model and a change had to be made.

I applaud them for doing something about that now, rather than later.

This just needs to be posted until they notice what THEY said.
—-
http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success#more-8572

“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.” – Colin Johanson
—-
The last bolded part is key here.

The implementation of Ascended gear goes against the primary reason why I bought this game, but I will reserve final judgement until I see the details when the patch comes out. However, as a loyal customer who purchased every GW1 game and expansion, I won’t purchase anything more from Anet if this is the route they wish to take. ~ Son, I am disappoint

I can only state that I truly wish they would have handled this similar to GW1 which is that your armor became “infused” which would help you with a specific type of damage that was caused by 1 type of mob. This infusion had no impact on any other gameplay. The was done by doing something in a mission. You could do it to each armor set you had in case you wear different types.

It seems they forget the proper ways of balancing like they did in GW1 and just look at catering to the 1% Hard Core groups. They will be uptuning Legendary weapons so now they get another kitten bragging right.

Magiofdeath.2745:

Ok, seriously, are those complaining also in favor of welfare IRL? I’m going to go ahead and assume those complaining do not have legendary weapons and expect things to just be handed to them without any effort or just minimal effort. If you’re complaining about a small armor progression grind, then I can only assume you are not for the legendary weapon grind either, since that takes a huge amount of time, farming and/or gold spent. Crafting exotics are a joke. I have a full exotic set of armor and 4 exotic weapons, and plan on finishing up upgrading my ranger’s weapons to exotic (except torch cause torch is meh, but that’s another topic). I also plan on upgrading my magic find armor set to exotic. This is minimal effort. I am ok with this addition, because it adds something else to do in the game, that is optional. I don’t think a small stat increase is going to break WvW, but that’s my thoughts on the matter.

making a lot of assumptions there

1 this devalues current gear
2 this makes other dungeons obsolete as why would you go for sub par stats as anything other than a stepping stone
3 its not a small armour progression grind the dungeon supposedly has an infinite depth of harder and more rewarding levels
4 the only thing the legendary grind which i am going for on all wepons has to do with this is that they are updating legendaries to the new stats, meaning a free ride for those who already have them in regards to getting ascended weapons, and making them more desirable to everyone else if they continue to get a free pass to the latest tier whenever they add a new one
5 exotics are supposed to be easy to get you know skill >gear
6 why bother with exotic MF ascended has an extra 3% per item at least
7 the cumulation of small things leads to large ones all those small stat upgrades add up.

both ascended and agony are terrible mechanics and basically crutches for poor design

if they wanted to introduce challenge they could bring back timed challenge missions like

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dajkah_Inlet

people would work to get to the top of the leaderboards and stay there its progression that’s not mudflation or a ridiculous gear check

Trust earned can be very rewarding, trust lost very costly and hard to regain. Put me in the lost column on this, and I’ll have my voice heard with my wallet, no more gems no more support for breaking this trust. Poor decision on Anet’s part and it will prove costly in the end, for every one person who wants this carrot chase10 more will leave because of it.
I will not be referring this to any of my friends for this weekend, because frankly it won’t be the game I’ve raved about as of the 15th.

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.” – Colin Johanson

The Manifesto was a lie.

The whole company should be ashamed.

I actually like this. If you played GW1 there was a Normal Mode and Hard Mode. If you ran a Hard Mode in GW2 then you would like to be compensated for your efforts. For all your exotics you worked so hard for.. If you love the appearance you can simply transmute them onto a higher piece of gear.

What if the Ascended gear was even easier to get than Exotics? Just wondering.

I remember when WoW listened to the vocal minority on the forums who wanted harder raids so Blizzard released the Cataclysm expansion which caused their 12.5 million subscribers to drop down to 9 million over the course of a year. Now they’ve learned from their mistakes with their new expansion but have only gained back about a million of those subscribers. The damage has already been done and they will most likely never get back to that 12.5 million mark because of it. Are you reading this ArenaNet? Are you paying attention?

“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.” – Colin Johanson

was colin fired ? cause judging from that ring picture that was posted, we’re seeing a stat increase of 8%. that is pretty massive and is certainly something that most will feel, and rightly so, that they need to keep the competitive edge. completely against everything that was posted above by colin, and why alot of us are here in GW2 and loved GW1 so much.

please keep the same stats as Exotic. MAYBE different stat combos, but certainly NOT better stat values. come on now !

Well, looks like this will break my GW2 addiction. I do not do gear treadmills.

The gear treadmill is why I quit playing WoW, and the lack of treadmill was one of many things that made GW1 such a great game. An intelligent gearing system should be between making choices: more health or more damage, etc, not about having gear that supersedes other gear.

A gear treadmill based on stat superiority will RUIN this game. Bring back titles, more skins, prestige items, new item stats that offer more variety and horizontal progression.

Gear treadmill has a few negative effects:
-Hardcore players will presumably have more skill due more practice. Giving them stat superiority further widens the gap

-Restricts end-game content by introducing a “gear check.” Higher gear tiers will also remove challenge from areas designed for lvl 80s with merely exotic gear. Thus lvl 80 content becomes stratified

-Punishes players who like to play alts. Without gear treadmill, GW2 seems to be quite alt-friendly. I do not want to be locked into playing one character.

Joel.6587:

I actually like this. If you played GW1 there was a Normal Mode and Hard Mode. If you ran a Hard Mode in GW2 then you would like to be compensated for your efforts. For all your exotics you worked so hard for.. If you love the appearance you can simply transmute them onto a higher piece of gear.

Thats… Thats not even a remotely relevant comparison.

Why in the Hell is Anet trying this proven failed mechanic?

100 pages, mostly against this change.

Tyr.1965:

I miss them too. It’s a shame they sold out after getting a whiff of that Warcraft pie. Too bad they’ll never get to taste it no matter how hard they try and now they’re going to lose everything they’ve built so far just trying to reach it. Idiots.

Agree with this so much. Idiocy is the best way to describe it. This is a sell-out.

Bubbles.2507:

From GW2 manifesto

“Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun;”

Screw me for believing this amirite?

yeah i guess the jokes on us, the customers, for believing these lies.

Antitheist.5306:

Why does everyone seem so quick to assume that ANet wants to piss of their players?

I don’t think they want to piss off their players. I think they see this as a way to keep players playing for longer and thus hopefully spending more money. However, certain players play for gear treadmills and others for their own enjoyment (of course these can combine with one another). ANet has clearly chosen the gear treadmill camp though in the hopes that it will bolster revenue. Even if this is not true they said in the past “the whole game is end game,” now they’re specifically creating end game content for a game that many players chose to play on the basis that it was not setup on that model.

Now when you make a character in GW2, just like all the MMOs it was trying to be different from, you need to power level your way to 80 and deck yourself out in full ascended otherwise you’re not “playing it right” because everyone knows in an MMO the real game is at “endgame.” Can’t wait for iLevel and gear checks to make their way into this game.

So, within 3 months they’re going back on their core design principle of no grind/treadmill for stats, AND copying the Radiance feature from LotRO, which even Turbine finally admitted was a huge mistake and not salvageable. Impressive…

Corvindi.5734:

100 pages, mostly against this change.

Well, this is how many people there were who were not complaining about the state of the game. I suppose this is what happens when you listen to the loud whiners without polling the actual player base ;-)

Haven’t seen a storm like this since Blizzard tried to force Real ID down people’s throats.

I am excited for the patch but I have very strong reservations about the ascended gear. My issue is that it is only available in dungeons

This is utterly contrary to how the game was sold. I bought this game with the understanding that I would have multiple avenues to get the best gear in the game. Currently these are crafting, karma purchases, and dungeons. Based on what we know right now, after Ascended gear is fully implemented Dungeons will be the only place to get this gear. That is cutting down the paths to BIS gear to one path that not everyone likes.

Note I would have no issue if they would simply leave stats at exotic levels. Leave the accounting for gem slots in but make the total stat distribution the same as gemmed exotics. Use only infusions as the dungeon progression mechanic that only affects the dungeons and I have no problem with this gear.

I understand what ArenaNet is trying to do, but seriously, this isn’t the way to do it.

My suggestion for the problems expressed in the blog post:

Progression
Keep the new gear, drop the stats to current gear levels. Use infusion as a Dungeon progression and gating mechanic. Add sexy skins and I’m all over it.

Bridging the gap between Legendaries and Exotics
Personally I don’t see an issue here, but fine. Your scavenger hunt idea is good. Run with it. Other ideas are changing the precursors from mystic forge gambling to a more defined but extremely challenging path through a combination of quests, puzzles, events, and achievements.

Things like the gift of exploration you get from world completion are good, there are tons of other things you could do to tie legendaries to achievements. I honestly wonder why they aren’t already tied in more.

Dropping in gear with stat increases isn’t going to solve your problem. It does nothing to build toward legendaries that we’ve seen, and as “something to do in the meantime” it’s just not gonna hold up under assault from the real pros.

You have a chance to make the pros happy with the dungeon ever increasing its difficulty. A new tier of gear with better stats NO MATTER HOW SMALL does nothing but alienate your base audience.

Arenanet, trust your initial design instincts and do not give Ascended items better stats than Exotics. You are going to briefly please a vocal minority who can’t have fun without a hamster wheel, but you are going to lose a whole lot more from the more casual players, which are the massive bulk of your player base.

Finally I’ll wait until I see how it works in game to make my final judgement, and this alone won’t make me stop playing. But if i don’t like how it works, you will feel it financially. My wife and I both play and we allow ourselves to spend up to $40 a month on the cash shop. Keep us happy and we’ll gladly support you as much as we can. Piss us off at your own peril. I can guarantee you there are more people like us than there are “there’s nothing to work for” people.

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

The Manifesto was a lie.

The whole company should be ashamed.

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

Corvindi.5734:

100 pages, mostly against this change.

Ok, im gonna post here once again, just for the sake of contribution….
As i said before, i hope that they will re-consider some features about new items after seing this thread (if anyone is reading this from Arenanet at all…)

However, I have to add if these vocal players in this thread that are upset about the changes are the only ones who are pissed off about this change, ANet has succeeded.

What I see are the same handful of posters continuing to rage about something that’s done and in the books as of Friday.

i am not as disappointed as others but i really feel the exotic sets i just get a week ago will be more useful if they can be upgraded to ascended with say, 50% effort of getting a brand new ascended one. At least this can compensate the effort of getting the exotic and not completely wasted

tkalamba.2541:

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

Nothing is “mandatory.” You can run around WvW in a set of blues. Have fun with that.

what’s next?

raid dungeons?
flying mounts?
pvp gear progression?

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

“Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it
doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun;”

ArenaNet, these are quotes from YOUR manifesto. And now, you’ve gone completely against them by adding in a new tier that has increased stats and affects all of the game.

I will continue to add more quotes to show what your original design prospect was.

MajorMelchett.6042:

This just needs to be posted until they notice what THEY said.
—-
http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success#more-8572

“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.” – Colin Johanson
—-
The last bolded part is key here.

PERFECT quote.

I’d love to see their response to how this current system matches up with that. They are adding in a level of gear with a new stat that is REQUIRED to face the increasing challenge of a dungeon. At a certain point in progressing into the dungeon you are REQUIRED to have infusions to match the “Agony” that the enemies put on you. What if you want to face increasing challenges WITHOUT that loot grind? You can’t. It is a REQUIREMENT to have infusions at a certain point in order to counteract the agony. They say it clearly in the blog.

How does that fit with the above statement where they state ALL of it (gear treadmill/grind) is optional? They are completely contradictory. I would LOVE a dev try to respond to this (however I don’t expect it to happen).

tkalamba.2541:

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.” – Colin Johanson

Yeah, it was a lie.

Please listen to OP. Do not fall for the same mistake as LOTRO.

See what happens when you pay too much attention to the highly vocal minority that infests the forums.

Kain Francois.4328:

What if the Ascended gear was even easier to get than Exotics? Just wondering.

i dont think this will happend, but if it make ascended item, avaible in the same method of the exotics one… there is no harm.

But We need a clear answer from above, on what its the future of the game items.
not another dev blog!

it’s now obvious that arenanet’s words aren’t worth price of electricity to display them on a screen.

tkalamba.2541:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

The Manifesto was a lie.

The whole company should be ashamed.

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

In order to participate in a certain level of challenge within the new dungeon, the Ascended gear is mandatory. Reread the blog. They state that at a certain level of “difficulty” the enemies have so much agony that you are required to have infusions to counteract it. So if you want to participate in that “difficult” content, you are REQUIRED to have a certain type of gear. Therefore, it is “mandatory” for a certain type of content. Therefore, that content is “gated” from those who lack specific gear.

YES! The whole Lotro comparison is absolutely exactly what I thought of. It was what made the difference between “great, fun game” and “Oh well bye” to me.

Crackbone.5710:

However, I have to add if these vocal players in this thread that are upset about the changes are the only ones who are pissed off about this change, ANet has succeeded.

What I see are the same handful of posters continuing to rage about something that’s done and in the books as of Friday.

If youre posting on the forums at all, you are already part of a minority regardless of your opinion on this change. Most players do not post on the forums at all. So we have two minority camps here with extremely opposing opinions of this change. Which camp is bigger? The one that hates the gear treadmill. Why is ANet listening to the smaller camp? Is it just because they were the only ones kittening all this time? The rest of us didnt have anything to kitten about. Now we do and we’re coming out in droves.

Ah the good old days, grinding superior third marks to get Armour of the Aurochs for my hunter so I could run Barad Guldur. The raid was fun, the grind for the armor was not. I agree with the OP, it is a failed mechanic that serves no real purpose except to piss people off by forcing them to grind.

Inb4 dailies to gain rep with each faction now

tkalamba.2541:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

The Manifesto was a lie.

The whole company should be ashamed.

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

Bubbles.2507:
From GW2 manifesto
“Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun;”

Adding new layers of gear with stats required to complete the hardest parts of new instances is not optional. The new gear and condition is the definition of a grinding treadmill.

Anet Manifesto = Lie’s

Crackbone.5710:

However, I have to add if these vocal players in this thread that are upset about the changes are the only ones who are pissed off about this change, ANet has succeeded.

What I see are the same handful of posters continuing to rage about something that’s done and in the books as of Friday.

I just made my first post in the thread a few entries above you. I waited and read, and tried to find some path to this decision making sense. There are better solutions to the problems Lindsey defined.